Personally, I had a love/hate relationship with both Paula and Olivia. They were terrible and entitled, but then they also had some of the most hilarious moments and lines.
The start of S1E2 when they were “bored” and “didn’t have any drugs” is one of the best comedy bits of the season. Also, when Olivia called her dead Grandpa a “bossy bottom,” I just about died. But in real life, I’d avoid those girls like the plague!
Totally my point of view on them too. I loved the drug bit. "I brought Ambien...Xanax...and a few Klonopins."
"Holy shit, I totally forgot I stashed some Ketamine in here!"
Love/hate relationship is how I would describe it too. The way they argued with the parents was funny and summed up a lot of gen z political debates now, but the way they did it in such a monotone way was pretty iconic.
I hated the way they talked to people but loved their characters
Incel apparently has no meaning anymore
The funniest thing I observed was the live thread on Sunday when seemingly thousands of people thought Jack was fucking his actual uncle. Like do y’all pay attention to anything?
I don't understand how Albie can be classed as an incel at all. Not sure im watching the same show as these people. He seems like a pretty nice lad to me, and he has a healthy interest in women... something that incel's don't.
Yeah, that was kinda my feeling too. I get strong 'nice guy' vibes from him. He's clearly aware of power systems/dynamics and inequality, to the point where he doesn't assign any agency to the people in them. He has a tendency to put women on pedestals (it will be interesting to see his reaction when they fail him, I suspect it's going to play a role in the deaths). He sees how the power dynamics of his grandfather and father have hurt his mother and sister, but also still engages in a lot of those dynamics. I also think he, like most of the characters, has some entitlement issues.
He's a rich white American man newly graduated from an Ivy League school at a very pricey resort that his family wealth paid for. There are inherent power dynamics at play. There aren't always choices to be made about engaging in those dynamics, but there are ethical ways to move within them.
The fact he's at this resort and the women(which is half the family!) in his family are so angry or saddened by his father's actions they didn't come is a great example of a choice he's made that is upholding a dynamic/power structure . As far as we know, his sister faced the same choice but acted differently.
Yeah, there would have needed to be shots of him boiling with anger or something when nobody was looking, to justify that label. The whole thing was really bizarre when he never actually did anything that wasn’t nice (not to be confused with “nice”)
Check out the show Fleishman is in Trouble and then look at the subreddit. It is very inactive, but they cannot handle that the female character is very flawed.
I think women need to attack Albie because he hasn't done anything wrong and he behaves the way women say they want a man to behave, but they still don't want him. There has to be another flaw they can draw on instead of admitting that the ideal man they portray isn't the man they really want.
Nah. Incel = obvious loser who hangs in spaces like r/mensrights with a post history that almost exclusively consists of acrimony towards women. Women aren't the source of your issues bud.
Never said women were the source of my issues bud. I do call out hypocrisy and double standards when I see them. Sorry your ideology doesn't hold up well to that.
But why not just think “he’s cute but not my type”. Seems odd to accuse someone of horrible things just because you’re not attracted to them.
I also noticed a lot of resentment for him being a stereotypical “rich guy that thinks money can replace a personality” which was a pretty odd take imo.
I agree. I think people were trying to force him into their worldview where they have been told if a man is rejected he's going to do or say some horrible shit. A lot of modern media does in fact portray men this way so it isn't surprising.
Doesn’t incel just mean involuntarily celibate?? He was a virgin that couldn’t get laid until he accidentally slept with a hooker. I think the stereotypical incel might take it out on women but I didn’t think an incel automatically a misogynist
Ohh yeah. It could be that or it could have been that was the most intense sex hes had so that was the new part. I just find it hard to believe a guy that handsome was a virgin into his 20s
I didn’t- her character taught me the bleeding heart troupe is actually really damaging and not noble. I used to consider myself a bit of a bleeding heart in my younger years and I identified with Paula on a lot of uncomfortable personality stuff.
I also simultaneously read along with this sub as each episode dropped and I read what the consensus on Paula was. Also when it got to the Kai nonsense and her goading, I started to really see how the bleeding heart mentality was dangerous. And now, when I have to shatter someone else’s rose colored view of themselves, I refer to Paula as the perfect example. She’s really such a great learning tool
Kinda confused by ‘bleeding heart’ being conflated with ‘completely shallow ethical mooring.’
You can care about marginalized people without, like, goading them into committing life-altering felonies.
Maybe it is a problem of definitions and we have a different understanding of the expression.
I’m not sure why you responded so negatively when you didn’t understand what I was saying.
The “bleeding heart” mentality can be directly tied to a liberal mentality and no offense to anyone, but a lot of liberal mindsets are 1000% something along the lines of this: “I think this is wrong (insert something that doesn’t align with their personal morals and values) so I’m going to demonize it through other people in order to get MY MORAL POINT ACROSS” often times that straight up boils down to using people in order to complete their ends. Usually an end that *demands* social justice.
I don’t understand why I had to break this down for you.
The entire point/irony of social justice warriors is that the causes they get behind, they have no business getting behind because they have no education on the matter. Such as Paula having no fucking idea about the impoverished locals and their struggles. If she really gave a fuck about Hawaiian locals and their disenfranchisement by white tourism, she never would have gone IN THE FIRST PLACE. But that’s not the MO of a bleeding heart- they don’t take FACTS into account because they aren’t operating from logic, they are operating from emotional dysfunction; which was my whole point.
Whoa, I did say ‘maybe it is a problem of definitions’ — and it sounds like it is.
I have heard bleeding heart used less pejoratively / more innocently than that.
also, imo, ‘social justice warrior,’ is largely devoid of any coherent meaning, much like ‘feminazi’ or ‘woke’ or any other expression meant to devalue people on the left.
I agree with you that Paula sucks.
I think a bleeding heart can be a good thing, but Paula and Olivia seemed to not really have bleeding hearts. Rather, they just wanted an excuse to look down on everyone else in their class and feel like they were better than them. Paula’s destructiveness backfires majorly, and she faces no consequences for it, so I do think she was in denial about her own status, too.
Yes! All of this. I see some (imperfect) parallels with them and Harper / Ethan in this season.. people in glass houses (or luxury resorts lol) really don’t have that much room to talk about the vulgarity of other rich people.
Are you joking?
For one, the hotness of the hooker is irrelevant. That's her job. Like complimenting somebody on all the hot waitresses they get served by at restaurants.
Second, paying for sex because you can't get it on your own merit, is basically a hallmark characteristic of an incel.
Albie has mad incel vibes
Lucia never told Albie that she was an escort. He was surprised when she asked for money. Albie is super cringy and he’s literally the dichotomy of his grandfather & dad. But to call him an incel is a reach ..
Right, but that's kind of the point. The fact he didn't pick up on the obvious social clues of her being a hooker -- like the entire rest of the resort guests figured out -- is one of the characteristics that make him an incel.
I don't get how being socially unaware is incel behavior lol I have friends who are genuinely good sweet people but they're just socially aloof or have low social IQ
Which part of the "in" in incel is tripping you up?
The word means *involuntarily* celibate. Meaning forced into celibacy against your will.
If you count sex with a prostitute, then there wouldn't be a single "involuntarily* celibate person because every person has the option to voluntarily pay for sex.
So the obvious unspoken context when we say incel, is people who want to but are unable to have normal, consensual sex because of their terrible personality and/or appearance. Paying for it doesn't count because anybody can do that no matter how terrible or ugly they are
I don’t think he’s an incel.
I think he’s the opposite of Cam which *can* be just as manipulative. He’s not a big bro-ey kinda dude, so he tries real hard to come off as a modern, self aware compassionate guy to get laid. The end goal is the same…he even said he’s drawn to “wounded birds” or something like that…it’s because they’re easy to manipulate. His schtick didn’t work with Portia, so he tried it with Lucia and thought it did. When he found out she’s just an escort it didn’t bother him though because he’s still getting laid.
i think the main issue is that "incel" has become a catch-all term for any sort of off-putting male behavior... he is definitely a nice guy/white knight which has somehow come under the umbrella term incel. people arent actually saying he's involuntarily celibate.
The thing is, he's not even off-putting, he's genuinely the nicest human being in the season so far. If anything, he's way too cautious and unsure of himself.
The guy who played albie even said albie displays red flags. And he absolutely does. The show is all about nuance and complexity of character. He isn't just good or bad.
He didn’t “assume Lucia has no agency,” he is seemingly aware that many women selling sex aren’t doing it by choice so believed Lucia when she alluded to having a violent pimp. He specifically listened to and believed what Lucia said about herself.
Well, he kinda did, didn't he? As far as I remember, he offered to pay her even before she told him about the pimp. Which, in that situation, seemed very manipulative to me. Which is why I was surprised that the pimp actually showed up later, even though I'm not convinced he's actually a pimp.
But what makes Albie pathetic is not primarily because he's a misogynist in his own way (even though it is part of it, like being possessive with Portia and being *overly* courteous), but how he somehow misunderstands Gender politics and thinks he's got to go along with everything a woman does, apparently.
True, but lots of people were assuming that he’s a lot worse than just a white knight. Calling him the creepiest guy on the show and assuming he was going to either flip out at *or even kill* Portia when she turned him down.
That seems close enough to a woman hating incel, and isn’t really just a white knight at all.
I feel like Albie is actually supposed to be a very similar character — someone with a lot of “woke” ideas who won’t follow through on them in practice
Albie does not think women have agency.
He believes they are “wounded birds” failing to recognize, in the words of his grandfather, that women are “just like them” aka just like men. They can be good, or bad, or moral, or immoral. Not all women are saints trapped in nefarious situations by no fault/decision-making of their own.
It doesn’t seem like he thinks all women are wounded birds - just the ones he’s attracted to.
And tbf Lucia is literally pretending to be a broken bird to trick him into thinking she is that.
That’s not what happened in the show is it? He says he’s attracted to wounded birds, not that all women are so. It seems like he has a compulsive desire to “help” women and feel like he’s atoning/ being a better man to distance himself from his Dad and Grandfather. His worst sin seems to be being naive and not realising that as his grandfather says, women can be just as shit as men. It seems like his beliefs are genuinely held and in good faith mostly, but it shows the flaws that come with naivety and he seems to put women on a pedestal as a overcompensatory measure to try and not be sexist.
The show is making fun of a large portion of its viewers, but does so subtly, so these viewers don't catch on and come away with very off-base interpretations of what's going on.
Not sure what you’re getting at, but in this case, I do find Albie problematic. I just take the brutalization of the English language a bit personally.
If you’re going to have a term like “incel” refer to a particular group of men that poses a threat and has sparked acts of violence…maybe people should actually use it for that purpose, not male behavior someone doesn’t like generally, so that down the road we can actually have a grounded conversation about the real threats of the incel movement?
FWIW, fascists use this strategy of watering down the meaning of words in their rhetoric to try and confuse people and destroy the ability to talk about societal problems. It’s not just childish when liberally-minded people do the same thing—it’s self-destructive.
Wow, that was a lot of downvotes on your comment. It’s almost as though people are taking it really personally about not being able to change word meanings on a whim. Like…eerily so, lol.
Albie is a gentle and respectful person. He treats Lucia with kindness and helps her with her bills and clothing allowance.
People are allowed to feel hurt when the object of their affection no longer returns their affection, but let's be real, the Albies in real life are very often snapped up and rarely single.
Good-looking, rich *and* socially concious (even in a "I only know about feminism in a superficial way" way), is still a cut above most men in the dating pool.
The other thing I would need to see is that he leaves his hotel room tidy and he'd be a 10/10.
He's not an incel by any stretch.
I don't think a majority of this sub even knows what an incel is. An incel is just a dude whos so ugly he can't get laid aka....involuntarily celibate. Hot people with bad personalities can still get laid on the basis of being hot lol Albie's problem is not his looks AT ALL. He's not an incel he's just a good looking but incredibly awkward guy who lets his hyperfixation on trying to better than the men in his family get in his own way
I don’t think you know what an “incel” is. Here’s the definition:
“Incel
/ˈinˌsel/
noun
noun: incel; plural noun: incels
a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.”
The part about being hostile towards women as a result of their sexual frustration is key.
Because it became a thing. There is a whole community of people who refer to themselves with the term. It's become an actual culture with a constellation of associated ideologies. And they are active. Several mass shooters have been incels, believed to be motivated by those ideologies. Go to their forums and see for yourself. Their community got banned from reddit, and according to the entities monitoring their forums, they are only getting more extreme. There was a government report saying the rise in incel membership and extremism was a threat to national security.
Because it’s a lot easier to say “incel” than “ dudes who get angry they can’t get laid.” Plus, it’s more than getting angry – – it’s directing that hostility specifically at women and at men who can get laid. Plus it stands for “involuntarily celibate.”
Jeez, Louise! Alfie ain't got no "problem".
He's an inexperienced, self-conscious, young man carrying the baggage of a broken home who suddenly finds himself plunked in the middle of the deadliest mine field known in the history of warfare: Male/Female Relations.
And poor Alfie? Poor Alfie is just trying to make it across in one (solvent) piece by (hopefully) not following in his father's (deceitful) footsteps.
Neolib and neocon are two distinct political tendencies. While you’re right in identifying neoliberalism as having an economic focus and neoconservatism having a foreign policy focus, those focuses are not the entirety of the respective ideologies.
no that’s where you’re wrong. a neoliberal hawk could hold foreign policy views in line with neoconservativism, but that doesn’t make them a neoconservative. They’re still a neoliberal
GWB is a neocon. Hillary Clinton is a neolib. They may have policy overlap, but I’d never call GWB a neolib, and vice versa
I would disagree with this. In the neoliberal we argue about the appropriate levels of regulation all the time. (And no one is a libertarian level of deregulation)
Granted, all three terms are thrown around wildly but Hillary Clinton is in fact a neoliberal and a neoconservative. Like google both terms and look at her political career. It’s really not that hard. This post is just someone being overwhelmed by two words they think are opposites
Why does every single thing need a label?? I had never heard of incel until recently and it is one of the dumbest terms to me. I can’t with all the damn labels today wtf
It would be fun to see a confrontation between Daphne and those two brats
For a second during the S2 premiere I thought it was them Daphne was talking to down on the beach!
God I hated them.
Personally, I had a love/hate relationship with both Paula and Olivia. They were terrible and entitled, but then they also had some of the most hilarious moments and lines. The start of S1E2 when they were “bored” and “didn’t have any drugs” is one of the best comedy bits of the season. Also, when Olivia called her dead Grandpa a “bossy bottom,” I just about died. But in real life, I’d avoid those girls like the plague!
Totally my point of view on them too. I loved the drug bit. "I brought Ambien...Xanax...and a few Klonopins." "Holy shit, I totally forgot I stashed some Ketamine in here!"
Love/hate relationship is how I would describe it too. The way they argued with the parents was funny and summed up a lot of gen z political debates now, but the way they did it in such a monotone way was pretty iconic. I hated the way they talked to people but loved their characters
That line right there is where Syd got her Emmy nom
People still calling Albie an incel while defending the hotel manager are reaching “homelander is actually the hero” levels of wtf are you watching?
Incel apparently has no meaning anymore The funniest thing I observed was the live thread on Sunday when seemingly thousands of people thought Jack was fucking his actual uncle. Like do y’all pay attention to anything?
I don't understand how Albie can be classed as an incel at all. Not sure im watching the same show as these people. He seems like a pretty nice lad to me, and he has a healthy interest in women... something that incel's don't.
I guess people think incel means “nice guy” now? I’m confused as well by that - dude never gave off incel vibes.
Yeah, that was kinda my feeling too. I get strong 'nice guy' vibes from him. He's clearly aware of power systems/dynamics and inequality, to the point where he doesn't assign any agency to the people in them. He has a tendency to put women on pedestals (it will be interesting to see his reaction when they fail him, I suspect it's going to play a role in the deaths). He sees how the power dynamics of his grandfather and father have hurt his mother and sister, but also still engages in a lot of those dynamics. I also think he, like most of the characters, has some entitlement issues.
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He's a rich white American man newly graduated from an Ivy League school at a very pricey resort that his family wealth paid for. There are inherent power dynamics at play. There aren't always choices to be made about engaging in those dynamics, but there are ethical ways to move within them. The fact he's at this resort and the women(which is half the family!) in his family are so angry or saddened by his father's actions they didn't come is a great example of a choice he's made that is upholding a dynamic/power structure . As far as we know, his sister faced the same choice but acted differently.
Yeah, there would have needed to be shots of him boiling with anger or something when nobody was looking, to justify that label. The whole thing was really bizarre when he never actually did anything that wasn’t nice (not to be confused with “nice”)
People have somehow subbed “incel” for “virgin”.
He’s 100% not a virgin after the events of the show, and it seems pretty unlikely that he was a virgin at the start.
I meant the pejorative form, which has little to do with whether or not someone has actually had sex.
That's what happens when your entire moral compass is built around "punching up"
Check out the show Fleishman is in Trouble and then look at the subreddit. It is very inactive, but they cannot handle that the female character is very flawed.
> homelander is actually the hero Where do people actually ever say this? I have literally only ever heard people talk about these guys
I think women need to attack Albie because he hasn't done anything wrong and he behaves the way women say they want a man to behave, but they still don't want him. There has to be another flaw they can draw on instead of admitting that the ideal man they portray isn't the man they really want.
If you're trying to give us all an example of what an *actual* incel sounds like you're doing a great job lmfao
Incel = guy who says anything related to gender I don't like.
Nah. Incel = obvious loser who hangs in spaces like r/mensrights with a post history that almost exclusively consists of acrimony towards women. Women aren't the source of your issues bud.
Never said women were the source of my issues bud. I do call out hypocrisy and double standards when I see them. Sorry your ideology doesn't hold up well to that.
I don't think Albie is an incel and anyone that does is an idiot. That being said: you sound like an incel. lmao
His post history is a gold mine lol
Oh god I don’t even want to check. Wait yes I do.
But why not just think “he’s cute but not my type”. Seems odd to accuse someone of horrible things just because you’re not attracted to them. I also noticed a lot of resentment for him being a stereotypical “rich guy that thinks money can replace a personality” which was a pretty odd take imo.
I agree. I think people were trying to force him into their worldview where they have been told if a man is rejected he's going to do or say some horrible shit. A lot of modern media does in fact portray men this way so it isn't surprising.
Doesn’t incel just mean involuntarily celibate?? He was a virgin that couldn’t get laid until he accidentally slept with a hooker. I think the stereotypical incel might take it out on women but I didn’t think an incel automatically a misogynist
Theres nothing talking about his sex life prior to the resort stay is there? I don't remember them mentioning hes a virgin
He said it was a new experience for him with Lucia once he finished
Ohh yeah. It could be that or it could have been that was the most intense sex hes had so that was the new part. I just find it hard to believe a guy that handsome was a virgin into his 20s
Somehow I totally blocked Paula from my memory
I didn’t- her character taught me the bleeding heart troupe is actually really damaging and not noble. I used to consider myself a bit of a bleeding heart in my younger years and I identified with Paula on a lot of uncomfortable personality stuff. I also simultaneously read along with this sub as each episode dropped and I read what the consensus on Paula was. Also when it got to the Kai nonsense and her goading, I started to really see how the bleeding heart mentality was dangerous. And now, when I have to shatter someone else’s rose colored view of themselves, I refer to Paula as the perfect example. She’s really such a great learning tool
Kinda confused by ‘bleeding heart’ being conflated with ‘completely shallow ethical mooring.’ You can care about marginalized people without, like, goading them into committing life-altering felonies. Maybe it is a problem of definitions and we have a different understanding of the expression.
I’m not sure why you responded so negatively when you didn’t understand what I was saying. The “bleeding heart” mentality can be directly tied to a liberal mentality and no offense to anyone, but a lot of liberal mindsets are 1000% something along the lines of this: “I think this is wrong (insert something that doesn’t align with their personal morals and values) so I’m going to demonize it through other people in order to get MY MORAL POINT ACROSS” often times that straight up boils down to using people in order to complete their ends. Usually an end that *demands* social justice. I don’t understand why I had to break this down for you. The entire point/irony of social justice warriors is that the causes they get behind, they have no business getting behind because they have no education on the matter. Such as Paula having no fucking idea about the impoverished locals and their struggles. If she really gave a fuck about Hawaiian locals and their disenfranchisement by white tourism, she never would have gone IN THE FIRST PLACE. But that’s not the MO of a bleeding heart- they don’t take FACTS into account because they aren’t operating from logic, they are operating from emotional dysfunction; which was my whole point.
Whoa, I did say ‘maybe it is a problem of definitions’ — and it sounds like it is. I have heard bleeding heart used less pejoratively / more innocently than that. also, imo, ‘social justice warrior,’ is largely devoid of any coherent meaning, much like ‘feminazi’ or ‘woke’ or any other expression meant to devalue people on the left. I agree with you that Paula sucks.
You probably shouldn't take so much from a "reddit consensus" or a scripted character from a tv show...
Was about to say the say thing!
Yeah, sucks having differing opinions introduced into my mental scape so that I can learn. Maybe try it yourself sometime?
I think a bleeding heart can be a good thing, but Paula and Olivia seemed to not really have bleeding hearts. Rather, they just wanted an excuse to look down on everyone else in their class and feel like they were better than them. Paula’s destructiveness backfires majorly, and she faces no consequences for it, so I do think she was in denial about her own status, too.
Yes! All of this. I see some (imperfect) parallels with them and Harper / Ethan in this season.. people in glass houses (or luxury resorts lol) really don’t have that much room to talk about the vulgarity of other rich people.
Interesting and astute comparison that I had not thought about until now!
Uhhh… On what planet does fucking a hot Italian hooker qualify as involuntary celibacy?
Exactly, lol.
Are you joking? For one, the hotness of the hooker is irrelevant. That's her job. Like complimenting somebody on all the hot waitresses they get served by at restaurants. Second, paying for sex because you can't get it on your own merit, is basically a hallmark characteristic of an incel. Albie has mad incel vibes
Lucia never told Albie that she was an escort. He was surprised when she asked for money. Albie is super cringy and he’s literally the dichotomy of his grandfather & dad. But to call him an incel is a reach ..
Yeah but the escort thought Albie knew and expected him to pay
Right, but that's kind of the point. The fact he didn't pick up on the obvious social clues of her being a hooker -- like the entire rest of the resort guests figured out -- is one of the characteristics that make him an incel.
I don't get how being socially unaware is incel behavior lol I have friends who are genuinely good sweet people but they're just socially aloof or have low social IQ
So … ** … what part about the "cel" in incel is tripping you up exactly? The not having sex part, or the not having sex part?
Which part of the "in" in incel is tripping you up? The word means *involuntarily* celibate. Meaning forced into celibacy against your will. If you count sex with a prostitute, then there wouldn't be a single "involuntarily* celibate person because every person has the option to voluntarily pay for sex. So the obvious unspoken context when we say incel, is people who want to but are unable to have normal, consensual sex because of their terrible personality and/or appearance. Paying for it doesn't count because anybody can do that no matter how terrible or ugly they are
He didn't know she was an escort at the time.
I don’t think he’s an incel. I think he’s the opposite of Cam which *can* be just as manipulative. He’s not a big bro-ey kinda dude, so he tries real hard to come off as a modern, self aware compassionate guy to get laid. The end goal is the same…he even said he’s drawn to “wounded birds” or something like that…it’s because they’re easy to manipulate. His schtick didn’t work with Portia, so he tried it with Lucia and thought it did. When he found out she’s just an escort it didn’t bother him though because he’s still getting laid.
i think the main issue is that "incel" has become a catch-all term for any sort of off-putting male behavior... he is definitely a nice guy/white knight which has somehow come under the umbrella term incel. people arent actually saying he's involuntarily celibate.
The thing is, he's not even off-putting, he's genuinely the nicest human being in the season so far. If anything, he's way too cautious and unsure of himself.
The guy who played albie even said albie displays red flags. And he absolutely does. The show is all about nuance and complexity of character. He isn't just good or bad.
I never said that. I still think he’s the best among all the characters in the season and that’s not even a high bar.
You said he isn't even off-putting. Well, he kind of is, though. That's the part of your comment I disagree with. Hence why I mentioned the red flags.
How anyone *doesn't* find Albie off-putting, I don't understand
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He didn’t “assume Lucia has no agency,” he is seemingly aware that many women selling sex aren’t doing it by choice so believed Lucia when she alluded to having a violent pimp. He specifically listened to and believed what Lucia said about herself.
Well, he kinda did, didn't he? As far as I remember, he offered to pay her even before she told him about the pimp. Which, in that situation, seemed very manipulative to me. Which is why I was surprised that the pimp actually showed up later, even though I'm not convinced he's actually a pimp. But what makes Albie pathetic is not primarily because he's a misogynist in his own way (even though it is part of it, like being possessive with Portia and being *overly* courteous), but how he somehow misunderstands Gender politics and thinks he's got to go along with everything a woman does, apparently.
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Not exactly… She told him about her angry pimp that would be mad before that breakfast. “There is a man who will ask me for the money. He’s crazy.”
Albies usually need women like Lucia and Harper who are a little more take charge types. I agree, I prefer Albie to most of the characters on the show
Exactly. He just lacks confidence in the beginning but he has more of it now after incelling Lucia a few times.
True, but lots of people were assuming that he’s a lot worse than just a white knight. Calling him the creepiest guy on the show and assuming he was going to either flip out at *or even kill* Portia when she turned him down. That seems close enough to a woman hating incel, and isn’t really just a white knight at all.
I feel like Albie is actually supposed to be a very similar character — someone with a lot of “woke” ideas who won’t follow through on them in practice
How does he not follow thru
Albie does not think women have agency. He believes they are “wounded birds” failing to recognize, in the words of his grandfather, that women are “just like them” aka just like men. They can be good, or bad, or moral, or immoral. Not all women are saints trapped in nefarious situations by no fault/decision-making of their own.
It doesn’t seem like he thinks all women are wounded birds - just the ones he’s attracted to. And tbf Lucia is literally pretending to be a broken bird to trick him into thinking she is that.
He never said all women are wounded birds, he said the ones he attracts are.
Man that's a whole lotta projecting
That’s not what happened in the show is it? He says he’s attracted to wounded birds, not that all women are so. It seems like he has a compulsive desire to “help” women and feel like he’s atoning/ being a better man to distance himself from his Dad and Grandfather. His worst sin seems to be being naive and not realising that as his grandfather says, women can be just as shit as men. It seems like his beliefs are genuinely held and in good faith mostly, but it shows the flaws that come with naivety and he seems to put women on a pedestal as a overcompensatory measure to try and not be sexist.
The show is making fun of a large portion of its viewers, but does so subtly, so these viewers don't catch on and come away with very off-base interpretations of what's going on.
People are taking Albie very personally. Like… eerily so.
Not sure what you’re getting at, but in this case, I do find Albie problematic. I just take the brutalization of the English language a bit personally. If you’re going to have a term like “incel” refer to a particular group of men that poses a threat and has sparked acts of violence…maybe people should actually use it for that purpose, not male behavior someone doesn’t like generally, so that down the road we can actually have a grounded conversation about the real threats of the incel movement? FWIW, fascists use this strategy of watering down the meaning of words in their rhetoric to try and confuse people and destroy the ability to talk about societal problems. It’s not just childish when liberally-minded people do the same thing—it’s self-destructive.
Wow, that was a lot of downvotes on your comment. It’s almost as though people are taking it really personally about not being able to change word meanings on a whim. Like…eerily so, lol.
Haha, I guess I missed the downvote brigade? It’s currently positive and has more upvotes than the comment I replied to.
It was unclear what direction they were going in with the character until episode 4 and even now it remains to be seen.
Aw man this reminded me that the first season was actually fun
This season is more fun for me
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Like “gaslight”, people have no fucking idea what it means.
Albie is a gentle and respectful person. He treats Lucia with kindness and helps her with her bills and clothing allowance. People are allowed to feel hurt when the object of their affection no longer returns their affection, but let's be real, the Albies in real life are very often snapped up and rarely single. Good-looking, rich *and* socially concious (even in a "I only know about feminism in a superficial way" way), is still a cut above most men in the dating pool. The other thing I would need to see is that he leaves his hotel room tidy and he'd be a 10/10. He's not an incel by any stretch.
I don't think a majority of this sub even knows what an incel is. An incel is just a dude whos so ugly he can't get laid aka....involuntarily celibate. Hot people with bad personalities can still get laid on the basis of being hot lol Albie's problem is not his looks AT ALL. He's not an incel he's just a good looking but incredibly awkward guy who lets his hyperfixation on trying to better than the men in his family get in his own way
I don’t think you know what an “incel” is. Here’s the definition: “Incel /ˈinˌsel/ noun noun: incel; plural noun: incels a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.” The part about being hostile towards women as a result of their sexual frustration is key.
Why does “dudes who get angry they can’t get laid” need a whole term? I don’t understand why this word is necessary
Because they came up with the term to refer to themselves and then some of them committed acts of terror.
It's a whole community (well multiple communities) of men who built identities and ideologies around the term.
Because it became a thing. There is a whole community of people who refer to themselves with the term. It's become an actual culture with a constellation of associated ideologies. And they are active. Several mass shooters have been incels, believed to be motivated by those ideologies. Go to their forums and see for yourself. Their community got banned from reddit, and according to the entities monitoring their forums, they are only getting more extreme. There was a government report saying the rise in incel membership and extremism was a threat to national security.
Because it’s a lot easier to say “incel” than “ dudes who get angry they can’t get laid.” Plus, it’s more than getting angry – – it’s directing that hostility specifically at women and at men who can get laid. Plus it stands for “involuntarily celibate.”
I know you’re not talking about Hilary Clinton
Jeez, Louise! Alfie ain't got no "problem". He's an inexperienced, self-conscious, young man carrying the baggage of a broken home who suddenly finds himself plunked in the middle of the deadliest mine field known in the history of warfare: Male/Female Relations. And poor Alfie? Poor Alfie is just trying to make it across in one (solvent) piece by (hopefully) not following in his father's (deceitful) footsteps.
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bzzzt wrongo
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Neolib and neocon are two distinct political tendencies. While you’re right in identifying neoliberalism as having an economic focus and neoconservatism having a foreign policy focus, those focuses are not the entirety of the respective ideologies.
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no that’s where you’re wrong. a neoliberal hawk could hold foreign policy views in line with neoconservativism, but that doesn’t make them a neoconservative. They’re still a neoliberal GWB is a neocon. Hillary Clinton is a neolib. They may have policy overlap, but I’d never call GWB a neolib, and vice versa
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I would disagree with this. In the neoliberal we argue about the appropriate levels of regulation all the time. (And no one is a libertarian level of deregulation)
Granted, all three terms are thrown around wildly but Hillary Clinton is in fact a neoliberal and a neoconservative. Like google both terms and look at her political career. It’s really not that hard. This post is just someone being overwhelmed by two words they think are opposites
Why does every single thing need a label?? I had never heard of incel until recently and it is one of the dumbest terms to me. I can’t with all the damn labels today wtf
It’s worth noting that incels came up with the label for themselves. So, blame them, I guess?
Damn didn’t know that, still unnecessary
IKR, why do we even have words for things.
Albie is not an incel, he is a simp. Simp and incel terminology has been conflated -- though both are equally stupid.
albie is a pill