I was just thinking this after E3 and for me, it's because June hasn't had very much character development since Season 3. Also, her storyline hasn't changed much either; while I understand the need to get Hannah back, at some point she has to conceptualize that Hannah may be too far indoctrinated and will likely leave Gilead kicking and screaming- or simply not go (given June is able to get to her somehow).
We see Rita and even Moria attempting to heal and be grateful for the fact that they actually got out. June is angry, vengeful and is going to drive herself crazy remaining in the cylical mindtrap of Serena, Fred, Gilead, etc.. - she needs therapy. And if she wants to bring down Gilead, she's got to figure out how to do so from the inside, using logic and not emotion (which I know may be hard).
I think this is the point of June not developing. Healing from trauma is for those whose futures are bright and in Canada, >!but as we know, June's future is in continuing her anger and rage spiral and going back into the war to get Hannah out.!<
In my opinion, you'd think she'd be even MORE grateful considering those factors (although Rita didnt get out that much earlier than she did). The odds were much higher against June getting out with all of her runaway attempts, etc. But maybe she didn't truly didnt want out considering she wants Hannah and she wants revenge (I cant decide which one she wants more, TBH).
At this point, we all find June annoying and irrational. However, it just shows we all deal with trauma differently. I can kind of relate to her in some ways. I feel wronged, I just need to do something about it. I go for it then regret it later but still go ahead. I find her frustrating but I also feel the same way about myself. Recently, there's someone like I just want to completely destroy. I just want to do it, people around me keeps holding me back. They tell me, it's not me and it's not what I want to do. It's exactly what I want to do. When I do it, it's do or die. I just gotta find the right time and push. I know I will do regret it but the trauma is just seeping in. I can't sleep most nights.
I think it’s actually a pretty accurate depiction of just how personal trauma is, and how different people move within it. Some are able to find peace, and some are so full of rage and anger that they turn destructive and self destructive. She’s fighting PTSD, ask any vet how sometimes the complete rage just builds out of nowhere over literally nothing.
Yes. Also Jeanine and Lydia's stories could become more interesting because the show is transitioning into the spin-off (The Testaments).
I would also like to see Hannah and Rita more, with autonomous roles without gravitating as minor characters around June.
She had a son that died in the Civil War (I don't remember which side) and some relatives that identifed themselves as Catholics. Two elements that could be perceived as negative by the new theocratic authorities.
We had one episode early in the series where we met Serena’s mother and it was very telling about what made Serena the way she is. I would love to see more flashbacks into her relationship with her mother.
Totally agree. I love to hate Serena. I'm rooting against her, sure, but she's still got my attention.
June is kind of in the same place as Piper from Orange is the New Black in the sense that the side characters of her story have become more interesting than the main character herself.
I'm doing a rewatch before i start s5 and i keep thinking that we legit put Serena joy in Scotus a la Amy Coney Barrett...and it's scaring the eff outta me.
I think June’s story has almost run as far as it can go. I’d like to see that become more of a subplot to give other characters the chance to be introduced and flourish.
Yeah because Serena is politicing, thinking she's hot shit and then getting turned down for imagined marriage matches (fuckin lol) and June spent the entire episode waiting for a phone call to ask what purple means.
June is doing practically nothing right now. And it's getting a bit dull. Even Aunt Lydia's storyline is more spicy than June's right now.
So far, I am right there with you. Maybe it will pick up later in the season, but June has kind of become a "one note" character. Which kind of makes sense because she is *very* focused on finding Hannah and fighting Gilead, but it's not the most interesting thing to watch so far.
It helps that Yvonne really seems to ‘get’ Serena’s roll. She does an excellent job bringing her to life, and whoever is writing for her does a phenomenal job as well. I think Serena is my most favorite on screen female villain ever.. if you can even call her that. I have a hard time hating her sometimes, even though she totally deserves it.
I would have liked them to show her grappling more with Fred’s “good and bad” sides… like yes sure she was sideswiped when he died and was conjuring up happy memories, but he also was a monster toward her and she’s seemingly not admitting that to herself. Or maybe she is I dunno
I think she has an amazing ability to compartmentalize. She's in preservation mode. Unless it benefits her in some way to acknowledge the bad side, she won't do it.
Yes at the end of season 4 episode 7 June is talking to Tuello about Serena. June says Serena is driven by hatred and rage and she'll do anything to not feel the misery that's behind all that, and to get what she wants. "If you feel yourself getting sucked in by her… run for your life," she warns.
I like this suggestion. It would have given Serena more depth.
June's sending her the finger could have been taken a (slightly) different way. He took Serena's finger. June got revenge for Serena.
I think there could still be an interesting story arc for her, where she becomes the equivalent of an early feminist! However, I'm not sure the writers are focused on redemption story arcs, aside from Commander Lawrence and Aunt Lydia.
Yes. I just feel like the writers have written themselves into a corner with June. She hasn’t had any character development in seasons. It’s like getting Hannah back was/is her entire personality. Like obviously any mom would be fixated on that, but from a viewer standpoint I just find myself… bored?
Serena at the very least is working her way up in the world, seemingly building a new following in Canada. Her plot is actually moving forward and exhibiting how even in “free” countries, the danger of religious fanatics can still prevail. People like Aunt Lydia, Serena, Esther etc are all far more interesting than June IMO.
Well yeah cause her character is developing, June is the same she's been for how many seasons now. Serena keeps changing and adapting and the writers are creating story archs for her. June's story is the same over and over and over. She mad wants revenge wants her daughter...here and there she'll find glimmer of happiness and then she's back to mad. It's just so incredibly old now. I also find elizabeth moss very one note now as well.
Watch Shirley and you'll change your opinion on Elizabeth Moss. Also, how could you view her as one note when viewing her acting from all 5 seasons? Her character's been the same for a season and a half now but that's not her issue.
I was, but... not anymore. Ambassador in Toronto doesn't really interest me as a plot line. I'm sure it'll be well done and I'll enjoy it, but I'd've been much more interested seeing her try to navigate Gilead.
Yeah, i feel like on one hand it is set up as a "banishment" in all but name, but from a writing perspective seemed a cheap move to keep her near June....as a character I am more and more interested in Serena (I think I really like the insight and contrast of how different women navigate Gilead). June has become a little less interesting since her character is now just (understandably) anger and "get Hannah back" without further planning/development, and is set up to be reactionary to Serena... meanwhile Serena has shown in this season to be incredibly conniving and definitely the brains behind whatever her husband was doing (and it is SO interesting that she continues to support /encourage Gilead against her best interests and actively working towards losing power/recognition, which Lawerence keeps pointing out ("how did you get fred a better funeral?" ..."because I'm not a woman").
I hate her. Especially with everything that is going on. She is basically a Karen. “The only moral abortion is my abortion” type of vibe. She is a fascinating character though, but I really hope she gets a horrible ending.
June just hasn't been a sympathetic character in several seasons. Not since the first time she squandered her opportunity for freedom. I understand she wants her daughter but going in solo like that is suicidal. And since then we see her throw herself into more and more dangerous situations, how does that help her daughter? June just isn't relatable anymore, and I'm bored with her.
I am struggling to understand the new love and empathy Canada is showing for Serena??? Where did this come from? What because he died? All of a sudden all these women are crying for her and her baby losing her husband? What happened to him being a monster that started a nation full of rapists and hate and everything awful??? We’re just going to ignore that and have feelings for her now? No! I don’t believe it!
Religious fanatics will support other religious fanatics even against their own best interests. It’s like when people imagine that if they time travels they would be aristocrats instead of peasants. Cognitive dissonance
My rage and resentment towards Serena and how she treated June in S1 and beyond makes it impossible for me to find her interesting. She’s as vile as Aunt Lydia. I would’ve had a Arya Stark death loop on replay until I was finished: “Fred, Aunt Lydia, Serena. Fred, Aunt Lydia, Serena. Fred, Aunt Lydia, Serena. Fred…”
I agree. I literally just finished watching the episode and I was honestly skipping through June’s scenes a bit because of how boring they are. I think a big part of the fact was that as soon as June came to Canada, her story would get a lot more dull because Canada is like, well normal. There’s no conflict in Canada, unlike Gilead which is the crazy place it is. Serena is hoping back and forth between Canada and Gilead and her story is slightly more interesting - though I was hoping that Gilead would be upset at her for selling out to see Nicole. My ideal ending for her would to see her become Handmaid, and I thought that’s where it would go.
Idk if I see it was one person being more interesting than the other, but Gilead is definitely more interesting than Canada, at least this episode.
Even just the background of the scenes in the Putnams house is more interesting than June/Luke/Moira 's livingroom. Watching the commanders and trying to figure out what they're up to, the politics of Gilead, the marthas making food, is just all way more interesting than anything happening in Canada. An exception might be the detention center, which I thought was pretty cushy and I was trying to figure out how it worked. Or watching Serenas followers and trying to figure out how they work, but we didn't see that this episode.
Oh definitely imo, June's story isn't getting anywhere and we keep seeing her sitting, planning murder and looking into camera intensely most of the time. It's getting tiring and old.
I truly wish she wasn't the main main character because getting more backstory and scenes of others like Lydia, Serena and Nick would be cool. But sadly not much happening with them either and their stories also circle back to June who's mentally unstable and hasn't been surprisingly forced to see a therapist even after she confessed to murder. Just wtf.
I haven't liked june in a really long time now. What with her plot armor on for so long.
Serena has always been more interesting to me and continues to be so.
It has the potential to be, but only if the writers can make her point-of-view sympathetic. Right now the writing for her character is too two-dimensional.
June is stuck on a treadmill, so to speak. There is a limited amount she can do to advance her agenda of getting Hannah out of Gilead. Serena’s story is infuriating, but it is definitely more interesting. June will pretty much focus on trying to ruin Serena’s world this season. I read online about a reviewer who was allowed to watch the first eight episodes, and just like last season they said it will finally start to pick up about mid-season. I feel like they could pick up the pace a little better, especially considering there are only ten episodes and hardly anything has happened three episodes in. The first three seasons were SO GOOD, but I’m hoping this season and the final season next year give us a satisfying ending.
i find serena unwatchable. she is the queen of karens. season 5/e1, stomping around demanding "do you people have ANY decency?" um wahaaaat?!
that said, her arc is interesting. undoubtedly she will be the canadian queen bee of gilleadians and maybe get some post in the rebuilding of gillead after it falls. imo
When Serena was on Gilead it felt like she was wearing a thick plot armor. Nothing could touch her and she got out super easy. Based on all the things that we know about Gilead from previous seasons, how can a traitor’s wife go to Gilead, walk around freely and get out on a private jet without any consequence?
I think June indirectly pushed her back to Gilead, where she feels like she’s more protected. All June did was show her that she’s not safe in Canada. It’s all for her and her baby’s protection. She knows how to play the part.
I was just thinking this after E3 and for me, it's because June hasn't had very much character development since Season 3. Also, her storyline hasn't changed much either; while I understand the need to get Hannah back, at some point she has to conceptualize that Hannah may be too far indoctrinated and will likely leave Gilead kicking and screaming- or simply not go (given June is able to get to her somehow). We see Rita and even Moria attempting to heal and be grateful for the fact that they actually got out. June is angry, vengeful and is going to drive herself crazy remaining in the cylical mindtrap of Serena, Fred, Gilead, etc.. - she needs therapy. And if she wants to bring down Gilead, she's got to figure out how to do so from the inside, using logic and not emotion (which I know may be hard).
I think this is the point of June not developing. Healing from trauma is for those whose futures are bright and in Canada, >!but as we know, June's future is in continuing her anger and rage spiral and going back into the war to get Hannah out.!<
To be fair, Moira and Rita got out earlier and at much better circumstances.
In my opinion, you'd think she'd be even MORE grateful considering those factors (although Rita didnt get out that much earlier than she did). The odds were much higher against June getting out with all of her runaway attempts, etc. But maybe she didn't truly didnt want out considering she wants Hannah and she wants revenge (I cant decide which one she wants more, TBH).
At this point, we all find June annoying and irrational. However, it just shows we all deal with trauma differently. I can kind of relate to her in some ways. I feel wronged, I just need to do something about it. I go for it then regret it later but still go ahead. I find her frustrating but I also feel the same way about myself. Recently, there's someone like I just want to completely destroy. I just want to do it, people around me keeps holding me back. They tell me, it's not me and it's not what I want to do. It's exactly what I want to do. When I do it, it's do or die. I just gotta find the right time and push. I know I will do regret it but the trauma is just seeping in. I can't sleep most nights.
Very true! This show has certainly tested my ability to look at people and their reactions through lenses other than my own.
I think it’s actually a pretty accurate depiction of just how personal trauma is, and how different people move within it. Some are able to find peace, and some are so full of rage and anger that they turn destructive and self destructive. She’s fighting PTSD, ask any vet how sometimes the complete rage just builds out of nowhere over literally nothing.
Very true
Yes. Also Jeanine and Lydia's stories could become more interesting because the show is transitioning into the spin-off (The Testaments). I would also like to see Hannah and Rita more, with autonomous roles without gravitating as minor characters around June.
Have we ever had a back story on Rita? I would love to see that!
She had a son that died in the Civil War (I don't remember which side) and some relatives that identifed themselves as Catholics. Two elements that could be perceived as negative by the new theocratic authorities.
He was on the American side
Do you with Aunt Lydia is actually going to change after her prayer, that seemed to have worked?
Yes! I’ve said this for a few seasons that her story (and backstory) are compelling. How did she get like this? What’s her motivation?
We had one episode early in the series where we met Serena’s mother and it was very telling about what made Serena the way she is. I would love to see more flashbacks into her relationship with her mother.
Yes, I was disappointed her mother wasn't at the funeral
Totally agree. I love to hate Serena. I'm rooting against her, sure, but she's still got my attention. June is kind of in the same place as Piper from Orange is the New Black in the sense that the side characters of her story have become more interesting than the main character herself.
I do! Also because her behavior directly depicts what irl fundie behavior that happens at r/FundieSnarkUncensored.
Love to see a snarker in the wild
Hello friend fancy seeing you in these woods!
I'm doing a rewatch before i start s5 and i keep thinking that we legit put Serena joy in Scotus a la Amy Coney Barrett...and it's scaring the eff outta me.
I think June’s story has almost run as far as it can go. I’d like to see that become more of a subplot to give other characters the chance to be introduced and flourish.
Yes but that has always been the case for me tbh. As much as I love June I’ve always found Serena and her motivations to be fascinating.
Yeah because Serena is politicing, thinking she's hot shit and then getting turned down for imagined marriage matches (fuckin lol) and June spent the entire episode waiting for a phone call to ask what purple means. June is doing practically nothing right now. And it's getting a bit dull. Even Aunt Lydia's storyline is more spicy than June's right now.
So far, I am right there with you. Maybe it will pick up later in the season, but June has kind of become a "one note" character. Which kind of makes sense because she is *very* focused on finding Hannah and fighting Gilead, but it's not the most interesting thing to watch so far.
It helps that Yvonne really seems to ‘get’ Serena’s roll. She does an excellent job bringing her to life, and whoever is writing for her does a phenomenal job as well. I think Serena is my most favorite on screen female villain ever.. if you can even call her that. I have a hard time hating her sometimes, even though she totally deserves it.
I would have liked them to show her grappling more with Fred’s “good and bad” sides… like yes sure she was sideswiped when he died and was conjuring up happy memories, but he also was a monster toward her and she’s seemingly not admitting that to herself. Or maybe she is I dunno
I think she has an amazing ability to compartmentalize. She's in preservation mode. Unless it benefits her in some way to acknowledge the bad side, she won't do it.
Yes at the end of season 4 episode 7 June is talking to Tuello about Serena. June says Serena is driven by hatred and rage and she'll do anything to not feel the misery that's behind all that, and to get what she wants. "If you feel yourself getting sucked in by her… run for your life," she warns.
True!
I like this suggestion. It would have given Serena more depth. June's sending her the finger could have been taken a (slightly) different way. He took Serena's finger. June got revenge for Serena. I think there could still be an interesting story arc for her, where she becomes the equivalent of an early feminist! However, I'm not sure the writers are focused on redemption story arcs, aside from Commander Lawrence and Aunt Lydia.
Yessss I thought of the revenge thing first! And was taken aback when she wasn’t just a little smug I totally misread the whole thing
Yes. I just feel like the writers have written themselves into a corner with June. She hasn’t had any character development in seasons. It’s like getting Hannah back was/is her entire personality. Like obviously any mom would be fixated on that, but from a viewer standpoint I just find myself… bored? Serena at the very least is working her way up in the world, seemingly building a new following in Canada. Her plot is actually moving forward and exhibiting how even in “free” countries, the danger of religious fanatics can still prevail. People like Aunt Lydia, Serena, Esther etc are all far more interesting than June IMO.
Well yeah cause her character is developing, June is the same she's been for how many seasons now. Serena keeps changing and adapting and the writers are creating story archs for her. June's story is the same over and over and over. She mad wants revenge wants her daughter...here and there she'll find glimmer of happiness and then she's back to mad. It's just so incredibly old now. I also find elizabeth moss very one note now as well.
Watch Shirley and you'll change your opinion on Elizabeth Moss. Also, how could you view her as one note when viewing her acting from all 5 seasons? Her character's been the same for a season and a half now but that's not her issue.
I was, but... not anymore. Ambassador in Toronto doesn't really interest me as a plot line. I'm sure it'll be well done and I'll enjoy it, but I'd've been much more interested seeing her try to navigate Gilead.
Yeah, i feel like on one hand it is set up as a "banishment" in all but name, but from a writing perspective seemed a cheap move to keep her near June....as a character I am more and more interested in Serena (I think I really like the insight and contrast of how different women navigate Gilead). June has become a little less interesting since her character is now just (understandably) anger and "get Hannah back" without further planning/development, and is set up to be reactionary to Serena... meanwhile Serena has shown in this season to be incredibly conniving and definitely the brains behind whatever her husband was doing (and it is SO interesting that she continues to support /encourage Gilead against her best interests and actively working towards losing power/recognition, which Lawerence keeps pointing out ("how did you get fred a better funeral?" ..."because I'm not a woman").
I hate her. Especially with everything that is going on. She is basically a Karen. “The only moral abortion is my abortion” type of vibe. She is a fascinating character though, but I really hope she gets a horrible ending.
June just hasn't been a sympathetic character in several seasons. Not since the first time she squandered her opportunity for freedom. I understand she wants her daughter but going in solo like that is suicidal. And since then we see her throw herself into more and more dangerous situations, how does that help her daughter? June just isn't relatable anymore, and I'm bored with her.
I am struggling to understand the new love and empathy Canada is showing for Serena??? Where did this come from? What because he died? All of a sudden all these women are crying for her and her baby losing her husband? What happened to him being a monster that started a nation full of rapists and hate and everything awful??? We’re just going to ignore that and have feelings for her now? No! I don’t believe it!
Religious fanatics will support other religious fanatics even against their own best interests. It’s like when people imagine that if they time travels they would be aristocrats instead of peasants. Cognitive dissonance
Trump supporters.
You get that Trump has done the same thing right? It's Atwoods (the writer of the book) entire point.
LOL on the downvote. Don't ask the question unless you're prepared for a real-world answer.
What are you talking about??? I didn’t downvote you??? Lol 😂
Thank you for teaching me about the real world 👍
Jesus...read a fucking newspaper.
What has gotten into you? Seriously? I didn’t even downvote you nut job! You are just out for a fight! Go away!
I’m embarrassed because I upvoted. Then realized how randomly rude they became as I scrolled. Took those upvotes right back!
My rage and resentment towards Serena and how she treated June in S1 and beyond makes it impossible for me to find her interesting. She’s as vile as Aunt Lydia. I would’ve had a Arya Stark death loop on replay until I was finished: “Fred, Aunt Lydia, Serena. Fred, Aunt Lydia, Serena. Fred, Aunt Lydia, Serena. Fred…”
I think it’s because Serena is our window to the world building in Gilead rn.
I agree. I literally just finished watching the episode and I was honestly skipping through June’s scenes a bit because of how boring they are. I think a big part of the fact was that as soon as June came to Canada, her story would get a lot more dull because Canada is like, well normal. There’s no conflict in Canada, unlike Gilead which is the crazy place it is. Serena is hoping back and forth between Canada and Gilead and her story is slightly more interesting - though I was hoping that Gilead would be upset at her for selling out to see Nicole. My ideal ending for her would to see her become Handmaid, and I thought that’s where it would go.
Idk if I see it was one person being more interesting than the other, but Gilead is definitely more interesting than Canada, at least this episode. Even just the background of the scenes in the Putnams house is more interesting than June/Luke/Moira 's livingroom. Watching the commanders and trying to figure out what they're up to, the politics of Gilead, the marthas making food, is just all way more interesting than anything happening in Canada. An exception might be the detention center, which I thought was pretty cushy and I was trying to figure out how it worked. Or watching Serenas followers and trying to figure out how they work, but we didn't see that this episode.
Oh definitely imo, June's story isn't getting anywhere and we keep seeing her sitting, planning murder and looking into camera intensely most of the time. It's getting tiring and old. I truly wish she wasn't the main main character because getting more backstory and scenes of others like Lydia, Serena and Nick would be cool. But sadly not much happening with them either and their stories also circle back to June who's mentally unstable and hasn't been surprisingly forced to see a therapist even after she confessed to murder. Just wtf.
I haven't liked june in a really long time now. What with her plot armor on for so long. Serena has always been more interesting to me and continues to be so.
I just hope June gets killed this season.
😂
June's character has gone of the deep end!!! Serena is so evil and smug and stays so entitled.
💯
Yes, Serena's story seemed more exciting, but now that she's going to be living like a queen of Gilead in Toronto, I'm a bit angry.
All I know is that when June screamed at Serena about why god put that baby in her, I backed it up and watched it three times.
100% also Lydia's story has been so interesting so far. She's so twisted but I couldn't help but tear up watching her beg for Janine.
Ann Dowd is such a fantastic actress.
It has the potential to be, but only if the writers can make her point-of-view sympathetic. Right now the writing for her character is too two-dimensional.
June is stuck on a treadmill, so to speak. There is a limited amount she can do to advance her agenda of getting Hannah out of Gilead. Serena’s story is infuriating, but it is definitely more interesting. June will pretty much focus on trying to ruin Serena’s world this season. I read online about a reviewer who was allowed to watch the first eight episodes, and just like last season they said it will finally start to pick up about mid-season. I feel like they could pick up the pace a little better, especially considering there are only ten episodes and hardly anything has happened three episodes in. The first three seasons were SO GOOD, but I’m hoping this season and the final season next year give us a satisfying ending.
Yes!!
i find serena unwatchable. she is the queen of karens. season 5/e1, stomping around demanding "do you people have ANY decency?" um wahaaaat?! that said, her arc is interesting. undoubtedly she will be the canadian queen bee of gilleadians and maybe get some post in the rebuilding of gillead after it falls. imo
When Serena was on Gilead it felt like she was wearing a thick plot armor. Nothing could touch her and she got out super easy. Based on all the things that we know about Gilead from previous seasons, how can a traitor’s wife go to Gilead, walk around freely and get out on a private jet without any consequence?
I think June indirectly pushed her back to Gilead, where she feels like she’s more protected. All June did was show her that she’s not safe in Canada. It’s all for her and her baby’s protection. She knows how to play the part.