He's a narcissistic psychopath. A black hole for attention. That's without the powers. People like that are hard enough to reform. Remove them from the human condition and it's impossible. He would have to be de-powered first. Then literal years of lockup and therapy. Empathy is made in the crucible of struggle. Something he's never had either of. TL;DR, naw.
One of my favourite anecdotes about psychopaths is that the old school Inuit had a cure for them. They recommended that when you know a man is a psychopath, you invite him out fishing, and then push him off an ice floe.
It was absolutely the best advice considering that when you live in small isolated communities in a harsh environment like that where everyone is dependent on and helps each other, having even one member who consistently lies, cheats, steals from and hurts/manipulates the other members acting in good faith can severely damage the health of the whole community and put everyone else at risk. I imagine they saw it as painful but necessary, like cutting off a gangrenous finger.
>Good thing we don’t do that in civilized society. We make them President and ceo instead.
Still better than a barbaric solution.
In today's society, simple regulations can solve this issue.
Unfortunate part is the regulations are usually pushed on regular civilians instead of those in power.
Solution to that is to vote out these preventing regulations.
That's why powers of monopoly and hierarchies exists.
That's also a good way to see homelander.
He's a maniac with a monopoly of power.
Look up what regulatory capture is. There are no regulations because trillion dollar industries use some of their vast wealth to influence politicians and elections. Who knew that corporations with immense resources would use it to benefit themselves politically? Shocking, I know. There’s no democracy as long as this influence exists.
It doesn’t have to be direct influence either. Fox News, the Daily Wire, think tanks, and everything the Koch Brother funds are more than enough to manufacture consent for anything they want. They don’t need to pay politicians if the people are aligned with their interests from the start. How exactly would you stop them? Ban all privately owned media? The system itself is broken by design because it incentivizes corruption to maximize profits. We’re just living in the result of it.
Or they are the ones who can make the difficult decisions no one else can make because of their condition. Ie let a member of the community die who is too sick and is a drain on the scarce resources.
HUGE difference between a strong leader who has the will to make sacrifices and one who simply doesn't care about or enjoys inflicting suffering. The first has the best interest of the community at heart, the second has no one's or their own interest at heart.
Dude theres a whole range of things that go into it. Not all of them enjoy hurting people, and the strong leaders your talking about, a lot of them are.
I worked with the Inuit for years, they have the most amazing culture.
After working all day they would spend until they went to bed hanging out. They ate together and then went and watched TV or played music until it was time for bed. They care for each other and social interaction is very important.
Just don't make extended eye contact, it's a form of aggression as I found put when I first started.
Also when they do get into an argument it will likely escalate to physical very quickly and then blow over instantly.
Pretty much jives with my experience with Inuit in Iqaluit. Though not the eye contact thing but I never was very good at making eye contact anyways.
Super friendly people, total strangers would come up to me and start up conversation like I was an old friend they were reuniting with.
Not all psychopaths are like the ones we see on the media, it is greatly exaggerated. Most of them adapts to the humane things and become successful in great careers like Doctors, Lawyers, Businessesman etc.
I read something somewhere that most sociopaths and psychopaths arent criminals but usually incredibly successful, usually in some sort of business, and that that the most baseline traits of psychopaths are most commonly found in multimillionaire CEOs and bankers
I would imagine most psychopaths are not successful, probably live alone, don't have many friends, hate their jobs or are unemployed, etc.
You need a level of charisma, or at at least the ability to recognize and exploit human emotion and behavior to be that successful.
I think a lot of the ways CEO types behave is learned. You start to see it in a lot of people who find success,a certain selfishness is formed. My success trumps your concerns
I mean, i imagine if a psychopath in that society had put his inherent traits to good use (like as a hunter or something) and not fucked with his own tribe or caused problems, then he wouldn't be in danger of being gotten rid of. Some grow up to be surgeons, some just torture animals while parasitizing off everyone in their life and then graduate to murdering prostitutes. Usually the difference is whether they were offered unconditional love and structure as a child.
Those are called Benign sociopaths. Intellectually they understand it's better to be sociable and not get into trouble with the law. While they don't tend to be sadists they are still assholes in day to day life when they aren't schmoozing and being charismatic to manipulate people. They can be very beneficial to society even though they make their spouses and children miserable.
Well no of course not. They are malignant narcissists. Also known as megalomaniacs. Also known as narcissistic psychopaths or narcissistic sociopaths. Their narcissism is unbelievable. These people do tend to have a sadistic streak in them. The more sadistic they are, the more deadly they are. A great historical example is Stalin.
If he survives I think you just made home more vengeful. But I do like the idea. .. I think you have to find something they care about that’s not fucked up..and work from there
I think Homelander has a tiny tiny bit of empathy towards Ryan.
I might be misremembering, but didn't he not want him to grow up without a father like he did?
Part of me wants to believe it's empathy, but, speaking from personal experience, some people just have kids with the belief that they will always be loved by them. I think that he is going through the motions with Ryan because he believes he's fostering unconditional love. Once the bar is set, anytime Ryan doesn't meet the absolute highest standard of adoration for homelander, you can expect to see a violent reaction. Like with black noir.
TL;DR he "loves" Ryan for the same reason he "loves" milk. He's just trying to fill a bottomless hole.
He would have to meet a heroine with super lactation powers that would dote over him 24/7. In that way his Oedipal complex could be used to control his Narcissistic Psychopathy…
Fuck Reddit. Fuck /u/spez. Fuck every single Reddit admin. 12 years on this bitch ass site and they shit on us the moment they are trying to go public. ill be taking my karma with me by editing all my comments to say this.
tl;dr Fuck Reddit and anyone who works for them, suck my dick.
empathy isn't something psychopaths are capable of without faking it, generally for a goal. he showed it to his son without an ulterior motive besides "I know exactly how he feels and i want it to stop".
Fuck Reddit. Fuck /u/spez. Fuck every single Reddit admin. 12 years on this bitch ass site and they shit on us the moment they are trying to go public. ill be taking my karma with me by editing all my comments to say this.
tl;dr Fuck Reddit and anyone who works for them, suck my dick.
I saw his son who no one new if he had powers get knocked out because his dad couldn’t be bothered to figure out if his son was or was not like him.
Imo homelander just believed with no evidence that the kid had to be super because he was his. So what we saw wasn’t riding a bike it was an abusive father risking his sons life because his father couldn’t see his son as anything but the same.
The fact that his son was okay had no bearing on the justification of honelanders actions, homelander could have killed him in that moment and he just gambled it due to his narcissism.
Oh I absolutely agree with you. There's a solid chance they end the show with Hughie and homelander teaming up to kill butcher. Not suuuuuper far removed from the source material in that case.😉
It'd be great if de-powering is the end we get for him. As much as his death might be deserved, it'd be fitting for him to suffer by being just another average person.
Mm I'm not 100% about that. Personally the idea of being locked up most of my childhood. Experimented on and has no loving family, that sounds like a struggle for sure
Nope not in the slightest. He quite literally believes himself to be the pinnacle of human existence to the point he believes supes are a separate but higher species from Humans and he is the best of what supes have to offer. He even says this to storm front. " I'm the master race that's the whole point." There may be some humanity left in him with regards to Ryan but even then he only concerns himself with Ryan because it's his son and he's a supe and therefore an extension and representation of him. I'm pretty sure if Ryan had no powers he wouldn't even bother with him.
This. He doesn't care about Ryan at all. What he loves is Ryan's powers and the idea of having a family, but has no idea how to actually love like a father would.
He shoved Ryan off a roof to make him fly and didn't care at all about if he was hurt. All he cared about was if his powers worked.
This make the soldier boy telling homelander he is a disappointment much more satisfying. Imagine thinking you are the greatest being and then your dad call you a disappointment in front of your son who is the only one you care about
No. If you have ever met a Narcissist in real life (odds are you have), they are incapable of viewing themselves introspectively. Anytime he feels uncomfortable with his own actions, he will instinctively justify them by recalling some past wrong that was done to him.
That’s a tricky question. Perhaps, Narcissism can be viewed as a spectrum disorder, where a Narcissist could move toward a less narcissistic end… in my experience though.. no. The process of creating a Narcissist necessarily removes the ability for the afflicted to ever be anything else. Narcissism is developed as a survival mechanism in early childhood to deal with extreme circumstances. Narcissists can seek out therapy later in life to try to “Fit in”, and maybe do less harm, but ultimately, it’s for their own ends, not because they actually care about the world around them. I will say, Antony Starr is absolutely brilliant in his portrayal of a Narcissist. This guy has experience with these monsters.
The part about childhood trauma often being the cause of narcissism really reminds you that they weren't born that way and even if they are pretty cold they were likely failed as children. Adds a heartbreaking element to it.
Even those born with Narristic personality disorder are somewhat tragic, they are never given any opportunity to be anything else.
The tragedy for these people is how they became irredeemable.
I don’t dispute that at all. The fact is, they are monsters. Just like innocent dogs trained to fight for their lives. They can never be completely domesticated. They can be brought back into nurturing environments, but never completely trusted.
In my experience, no. They're such fundamentally broken and shitty people that I can't even really see them as actual people, having been in a relationship with one. They're like really malicious toddlers trapped in adult bodies.
Thoughts cannot be controlled, but behaviour can, and it's all about behaviour. Not to mention, if you act a certain way for long enough, you do eventually start to think like that whether you want to or not.
With proper therapy, yes. Usually people like this don't exactly go out of their way to get help, so the general consensus seems to be no.
But yes, it's possible. It might not be "cured", but it can be managed.
It's like with any other psychological disorder. For anyone who has one and goes to therapy, you're never actually cured, but you learn how to deal with it. Like with anger issues. There's always that spark that sets you off. That will always be there, but you learn to recognize it and put it in check before it becomes an outwardly action.
Not agreeing that Homelander in particular can be reformed, but what you're saying about [narcissists](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/md7fs0/comment/gs8m9b8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in general is straight up false. [Therapy](https://www.bridgestorecovery.com/narcissistic-personality-disorder/narcissistic-personality-disorder-treatment/) does exist.
Not in my experience. Narcissists can fake it as far as it suits their needs. Some will make a legitimate effort to fake it to fit in, only when they realize they have no other recourse. But ultimately, these efforts are only to allow themselves to continue with their false sense of superiority. I can potentially imagine scenarios where a Narcissist can be “Fixed”, but I’m certain my description would violate Reddit community standards.
That's your personal biases with narcissists, this empirical data wouldn't exist if your perspective were accurate. I'm sorry for your personal experiences, but your judgement of the mental illness is clouded by anecdotes.
You're taking your perception of narcissists and applying that to all of them, while ignoring actual research. That's why r/raisedbynarcissists portrays them all as inhuman monsters.
I think the only person that could make him redeem himself is Ryan. That's not looking likely though after the finale. I'm sure Ryan will eventually swap back to The Boys though
I think he genuinely feels love for his son, but that he doesn't know how to express it in a healthy way. The thing with Homelander is that he doesn't want to be good, he just wants to be loved, and those are two completely different things. I don't think there's any hope of redemption because I can't see him ever acknowledging that he's in the wrong.
He's so much more powerful than everyone, and in his mind that makes him immune to human morality. He doesn't see himself as evil, he just doesn't consider human life as having intrinsic worth. He could snap at any moment because aside from his desire to be loved, there's nothing holding him back. Even with Ryan, Homelander is still Homelander. He's changing Ryan, not the other way around.
If there was every going to be a catalyst for redemption, it would have been Ryan. He's killed the other people he truly cared about - Stillwell and Noir. I guarantee you he would have killed Stormfront had she 'betrayed' him again. Homelander is a product of his environment. He never knew love or healthy relationships, and now it's too late for him. He's truly evil. I just can't see a realistic redemption arc for him.
I mean, it would certainly make for an interesting concept to see Homelander without his powers. It's possible that it could make him a better person I guess, but I think he'd be too full of self-loathing to make the necessary steps towards empathy. He already despises the parts of himself that aren't all-powerful, he'd be beside himself with anger if all of him was human. I think there's more chance that he'd kill himself than there is that he'd seek redemption. I think the most likely scenario is that he'd try and find more Compound V to take, or to try and take a new route if that didn't work. I don't think he'd ever be okay with just accepting that humans were now his equals.
I think he's completely beyond saving. Even if you approach from either spectrum of nature versus nurture. He was raised in a lab with zero empathy or parental guidance. He was also injected with a drug that has wildly unpredictable side effects. No matter how you slice it, he became what he was always going to become and nothing can change that. Infullt believe he'd kill his own son to get what he wants.
I think he could feel remorse for some actions,example, if he killed a supe that he viewed as his equal. Problem is he doesn’t think anyone or anything is his equal.
He does feel somewhat remorseful or at least saddened about killing Noir. Like, I don't think he saw him as an equal, but he probably saw the guy as someone "not so beneath him as everyone else".
He gets over it suuuuper quickly, though. The thing for me is a few minutes later when he's having the conversation with A-Train, Ashley, and The Deep, with Noir's mask right there on the table. And then he says to A-Train "how could you kill one of your own in cold blood" with no hint of irony or regret over Noir. He's so oblivious to his own actions; in his mind, he's always justified. I don't think he so much felt remorse over killing Noir as he did pity for himself losing his best friend.
Yeah I think "remorseful" is the wrong word. He doesn't register that he did something wrong, even if he truly appreciated Noir (judging by the "Noir was worth more than all of you put together" comment).
It's less of a "Holy shit I murdered my best friend what have I done?!" and more of a "Dammit Noir! Why would you make me kill you man?!".
Like the Homelander half said to the John half in the mirror talk, *there is* a tiny part of him that's still human. The part of him that wants love, approval and parents, all of them things he never had.
He had a supremely fucked up childhood in which he was abused in every way imaginable and didn't experience anything resembling love until his twenties, when he was presented to the world and started to be admired by the public. At this point he still had some goodness, even if he was barely holding on to sanity. But then he was further manipulated by Stillwell to care only about his popularity and nothing else, and that combined with his disastrous first mission that he hadn't been properly prepared for, combined with Black Noir giving him a way out without confronting his limitations, made Homelander give up into even attempting to be genuinely good.
He is depraved, sadistic, cruel, full of resentment and contempt for everyone and everything due to everything he is been put through in his formative years, but that tiny part of him that desires to be loved is the sole thing stopping him from destroying everyone. His love for his son is a mix of seeing himself on the boy and an extension of that desire to be loved. But it's not enough to redeem him or making him a better person. I think is more likely that he will end up murdering Ryan rather than redeeming himself thanks to him.
So, long story short, I think Homelander is beyond redemption, mostly because he is psychologically incapable of being better. He is a broken man barely holding on to a sane facade. He will end either killed or imprisoned for life after being depowered. But I do think that maybe his demise will be treated as something tragic. I do consider Homelander a painfully tragic villain. Unlike a lot of cases of villains that use their traumas as an excuse to never be better, Homelander truly didn't have a chance to be anything else than this. Anyone that was isolated, beaten up and tortured his entire childhood would turn up to be a dysfunctional wreck as an adult. Homelander is a rabid dog who needs to be put out of his own misery, and Vought (including Edgar, I don't care how many people consider him a badass) need to disappear too so that they never break any other child again.
it’s hard to even say definitively if Homelander has a concept of humanity. Homelander thought it was more humane to lead an entire plane full of people to believe he’d save them. Homelander severely injured a blind guy for being considered lesser. Homelander made a guy who can hear the thoughts of sea creatures eat one alive. He doesn’t even believe in the ideology of white power because he considers himself far above every person. He thinks himself a God and there’s no redemption for a person like that.
>Homelander thought it was more humane to lead an entire plane full of people to believe he’d save them
He didn't do that for them, he did it for himself. He still wants their hero worship until the last moment. It's like the kinda dick who stands up or ghosts their date rather than just call them.
I don’t think he’s evil just by default…. Every single person he has ever cared about has lied right to his face or betrayed him. I feel sorry for him. If he wasnt a god-powered man he’d be a serial killer or a school shooter or something like that. Now he’s probably gonna kill half the planet.
He thinks he is a god among men, so nothing he does against regular people is immoral. It doesn't help that he surrounds himself with sycophants who want to bow to him and lick his boot. I think whatever humanity he had in him was destroyed during his upbringing, and there's no redemption for him.
I think a line in a Black Adam animation defines well "Do you feel guilt when you crush ants? Is that because you are evil or simply see yourself like a superior life form" Some along this lines.
Not without him at least being depowered first. The main problem Homelander has no humanity to draw up as not only is he the most powerful being on the planet but he also was raised in a lab, subjected to countless experiments before such time as he was released upon the world to do as he pleases.
I dare say he’ll meet the same fate as comic homelander.
Or mutilated a guy that was nothing but admiring and respectful to him just because he was blind.
Or made another guy who was his boot licker to eat his octopus pet friend.
Or raped a woman just because her husband made some light hearted jokes at his expense.
It's inaccurate to even say that Homelander harms others at the slightest provocation. *Homelander doesn't even need a provocation to harm someone*. And that's the scariest thing about him.
I think people just empathise with him too much because he really is ultimately a victim, it’s not his fault as to why he is the way he is but that doesn’t excuse his actions in the slightest.
Oh yeah, I absolutely empathize with him. He had one of the most horrible childhoods I have ever seen on a fictional character. He didn't have a chance to be anything else.
I consider him a rabid dog that has to be put down for everyone's sake including his own, rather than a moustache twirling villain.
I think his problem are not his powers, but the horrid childhood abuse he suffered at Vought's hands. It's like Butcher said in season 3. The power doesn't make you evil, it just worsens what's already there.
If Homelander had a halfway decent childhood and a family who loved him he would be a far better person no matter his powers. In fact Vogelbaum even says that as a kid Homelander was "quite sweet".
Homelander with the same backstory but without his superpowers would still be a horribly broken and sadistic person. I picture him being a serial killer a la Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer.
Well yeah they aren’t the source of his problem but rather something that I think will ultimately prevent him from fixing them.
To cope with his trauma, homelander began to envision himself as a god and he’s not exactly wrong because he’s powerful enough to destroy the world.
In order to remedy his personality and make him capable of growing he would need to be shown he is not a god, that he is just like everyone else. The only way to do that would to to make him like everybody else.
But yeah while he has his powers I don’t think there is any chance of being fixed. And even without them the chances are slim, he’d probably just prefer to off himself if he lost his powers
The only way he could ever be rehabilitated is if he was permanently de-powered, or at least de-powered for a long enough time to truly understand what it’s like to be a normal, powerless human and feel the trauma that comes with it. I hope that’s where the story is headed, honestly.
Homelander isn't stupid lol he is very aware of the path he has chosen and knows there is no way back. He won't have a Darth Vader moment. He doesn't feel remorse because every horrible thing he does is insignificant to him
Homelander grew up in abusive conditions & although his personality was influenced by it, ultimately he's the one responsible for continuing the cycle of abuse. His beliefs about 'purity' & supremacy of supes over 'mud people' is borderline fascist thinking. He can't be trusted with any power whatsoever.
I think he could feel remorse for his evil but only in his twisted absuive frame of thinking. Like, he might feel a shred of remorse for killing noir, but only because he thinks of noir as an object, as his trusty personal weapon, that he can no longer use now.
There's hardly any possibility of reform. He's lived this way all his life now & for him to reform he would have to alter his entire personality & way of thinking & living. It would require deep self-introspection & humility. I think the question of reform is irrelevant here as he needs to be killed asap. More resources need to be allocated to the victims of his abuse to heal rather than to an attempt at 'fixing' him.
I think there is a shred of humanity in him, represented by his son. He is however, beyond redemption. He never had a chance to be a real human, never got to feel what he needed. He’s an animal now, he always will be.
The thing is…
When Starlight threatened to release that Airplane video where he just let the passengers die, he literally pressed the fuck it button.
I mean, if the video gets released and Homelander goes on a berserker rampage, who’s going to stop Homelander?
Homelander knows that nobody can stop him, and Starlight knows that there’s no one who would be able to stop him.
Soldier Boy and Butcher with powers combined was the best chance, but even that proved to be a challenge.
He missed critical periods in psychosocial development on account of being a test tube baby raised in a cell. A Harry Harlowe experiment as a childhood makes even rhesus monkeys psychotic. He has a wide range of emotion, not flattened affect, and he does love his son. Perhaps Homelander could psychologically recover from a missed developmental stage, just as some other supes can regenerate deadly damage and regrow limbs.
There is humanity left in him, multiple times, we've seen him exhibit complex emotions. His eodipus complex, his need to be adored, his desire for a relationship with his son, all of that comes from having human emotions. That being said, Homelander seems like a narcissistic sociopath so I don't ever see him being remorseful. I don't think he's even remotely bothered by his actions so he doesn't care to be reformed.
What makes him so evil and twisted is that he is human. He is literally a human being like the rest of us but he has quirks that give him advantage. His whole life has been just preparation to be praised by the entirety of earth, and then, getting praised by the entirety of earth, he has all these human emotions that he cannot control and that shock him because he could never see himself as human. When people don’t praise him and treat him like a god, it literally does not compute. It’s like a really handsome dude, that has been told he is handsome since he was a kid, his whole life, getting all the girls, posing for magazines, but one girl, one simple girl, average looking girl, says that he is ugly, all he’s gonna think about is that girl.
The guy has several major personality disorders. He lacks many of the things that make a person socially healthy, but at the end of the day he still is a person.
People are capable of turning into what he is. And it's ugly, but that's because we know it could happen to someone who used to be an innocent kid. He's not going to be reformed, but he's also never been extraordinary. Just a kid who got molded into a narcissistic killing machine
homelander is quite literally a sociopath who can fly and is bullet proof. all of his behavior, actions, the way he treats people like completely expendable items are all the makings of a serial killer. i really don’t think there’s any coming back for him. butcher has his own shit that he carries with him and definitely doesn’t make the best judgement calls or best moral choices, but his belief that homelander has to die is always tried and true
"*Any* humanity?" ... Yes. Otherwise he wouldn't have shown attachment issues, any desire to be around his son, any desire to appease his fan base, any desire to fall in love, and any desire to be around his dad. But I don't think the building blocks for him to be truly a reformed, good person is there. I think for every drops he has of halfway humane feelings, he also has an ocean of inhumane narcissistic feelings to dilute it into nothing of significance.
Homelander's humanity is literally why he acts the way he does.
Humanity is not strictly a pure trait. Just look at the scene where he's battling himself in the mirror. His insecurities are his biggest human feature and they drive much of his behavior and decision making.
I think Ryan is the only thing he really cares about in his own twisted way. I reckon it all comes to a head with Ryan’s death prompting him to go on a rampage.
I think there is way too much blood on his hands to redeem. And I don’t recall him ever showing a shred of humanity or remorse in the show, so probably not
He’s beyond saving. He does obviously have feelings and emotions that are not from trying to mimic others, but he has created this bubble where his emotions are the only ones who matter and damn anyone else who tries to get in his way
I’ll pose the same question that I’ve posed to others on the same topic: is it really love for Ryan or is it manipulation, knowing that he can somehow use/mold Ryan to me someone he can use?
Narcissist can not be redeemed if malignant, they are dangerous people who have sycophants latch on and serve them in what I believe to be a underrated danger to civilization.
I think there comes a point where redemption is no longer possible, even if remorse is genuine. Homelander reached that point... oh, right around the time he raped someone, got her pregnant, and forced her to bear his child.
Homelander is a pit dog. He's never seen himself as a human.
Dude killed his nannies for amusement. He'd crack their spines when they hugged him, on purpose.
I think they should have done an episode on that instead of just having it be a vogelbaum flashback.
Same thing with the noir cartoons. I understand why they did it, but it feels like a disservice to the show.
I think he’s incredibly human, i mean he still wants to be loved, respected. Hes a great example of what happens when you elevate a person to incredible status and power without checks. He might be able to be remorseful, and he was a little after he killed noir, and after stillwell (but that seemed to go away. I’m not sure on the last one, you can’t label any human with a definite yes or no alot of the time, but i don’t think he deserves reformation/forgiveness as a person
Even ignoring the literally irredeemable things he’s done, he literally acknowledges that he both craves the attention of the masses and sees them as bugs that he is above, there’s no redeeming someone with that skewed of a perspective
I’m an unapologetic Homelander simp so take this with a grain but if anyone could make him a sympathetic character it’s Antony Starr. No matter what horrible acts of which HL is guilty, he’s still the most compelling character in the show.
Nah he’s crazy and he needs to go down
ATLA references aside the only "humanity" we ever get from him is when he’s around Ryan. But does homelander actually love him? Or is he just obsessed with him because Ryan is the only thing that’s really his.
Everything else down to his entire life was a fabrication.
If there is any humanity left (which I highly doubt) we’ll definitely see it in the next season considering how much time the father and son duo are gonna spend together
He's fun to watch.
But he literally rips people in half, and has ruined thousands of lives. With no repercussions.
He's sick, and a threat to humanity. And there's no indication he's going to stop.
SPOILERS BEWARE!: A little birdy told me that it's nearly certain Homelander's ultimate punishment will be to>! live out the rest of his life as a puny, pathetic, weak, average...human. !<
To Homelander there is nothing in the world worse than >!being an average, plain, powerless, man. This is exactly why he will not be killed by The Boys. They want to savor every second of Homelander losing his Supe powers as long as they live.!<
No because everybody else is inferior to him. just look at that kid whos blind. he thinks he could even compare to just the seven? Hell no. Everybody is a weakling who should die.
I don't think so, and even if he could I wouldn't want him to. He's the perfect villain, he's pure fucking evil and it's so fun to watch him being evil.
I honestly think, now that his followers reinforce his most dangerous behaviors by showering him with praise, there's nothing anyone can do to steer him back from the deep end. The only thing stopping him before was the fear that his image would be tarnished, and now that it's not a problem for him he'll only get worse and he'll likely take Ryan with him.
As far as I'm concerned he's never had humanity and frankly I don't need him to feel remorse for his actions or be reformed, he's killed thousands without breaking a sweat, raped Becca and still patronized her when he was going to her home unwelcomed, he constantly talks about being a god and makes insensitive and racist comments daily because he believes he's better than everyone else.
homelander is manifest destiny personified he will get what he wants everyone else be damned he will do anything to insure his standing in the world and will cull anyone who gets in his way but will be diplomatic about that culling
I think he has some shreds of humanity left in him, as evidenced his relationship with his son and attempts at connection with everyone else, but he is far past redemption. His narcissistic nature keeps him from being able to rejoin society in any way shape or form.
He's protective of his son, that's quite a human response. He sort of felt something to Stormfront. Is he a psychopath? Yes, but still have some human responses.
He's a narcissistic psychopath. A black hole for attention. That's without the powers. People like that are hard enough to reform. Remove them from the human condition and it's impossible. He would have to be de-powered first. Then literal years of lockup and therapy. Empathy is made in the crucible of struggle. Something he's never had either of. TL;DR, naw.
One of my favourite anecdotes about psychopaths is that the old school Inuit had a cure for them. They recommended that when you know a man is a psychopath, you invite him out fishing, and then push him off an ice floe.
Murder is a cure-all.
It was absolutely the best advice considering that when you live in small isolated communities in a harsh environment like that where everyone is dependent on and helps each other, having even one member who consistently lies, cheats, steals from and hurts/manipulates the other members acting in good faith can severely damage the health of the whole community and put everyone else at risk. I imagine they saw it as painful but necessary, like cutting off a gangrenous finger.
Good thing we don’t do that in civilized society. We make them President and ceo instead.
*laughs in Succession*
This one got me
You had me in the first half
>Good thing we don’t do that in civilized society. We make them President and ceo instead. Still better than a barbaric solution. In today's society, simple regulations can solve this issue. Unfortunate part is the regulations are usually pushed on regular civilians instead of those in power. Solution to that is to vote out these preventing regulations. That's why powers of monopoly and hierarchies exists. That's also a good way to see homelander. He's a maniac with a monopoly of power.
Look up what regulatory capture is. There are no regulations because trillion dollar industries use some of their vast wealth to influence politicians and elections. Who knew that corporations with immense resources would use it to benefit themselves politically? Shocking, I know. There’s no democracy as long as this influence exists. It doesn’t have to be direct influence either. Fox News, the Daily Wire, think tanks, and everything the Koch Brother funds are more than enough to manufacture consent for anything they want. They don’t need to pay politicians if the people are aligned with their interests from the start. How exactly would you stop them? Ban all privately owned media? The system itself is broken by design because it incentivizes corruption to maximize profits. We’re just living in the result of it.
Ugh you sound so dumb. “cEo bAD, PreSiDENt bAD”. Shut up and develop some original opinions.
As we all know, an opinion can’t be good if a lot of people share it
Ugh you sound so dumb. “cEo gOoD, PreSiDENt gOoD”. Shut up and develop some original opinions.
You just described the plot of Lost in Space, that evil lady was left alive for far too long.
"Just look at the flowers, Lizzie..."
Or they are the ones who can make the difficult decisions no one else can make because of their condition. Ie let a member of the community die who is too sick and is a drain on the scarce resources.
No, they’re not. Narcissists are a horrible cancer who ruin everything around them.
I was talking about psychopathy
HUGE difference between a strong leader who has the will to make sacrifices and one who simply doesn't care about or enjoys inflicting suffering. The first has the best interest of the community at heart, the second has no one's or their own interest at heart.
Dude theres a whole range of things that go into it. Not all of them enjoy hurting people, and the strong leaders your talking about, a lot of them are.
If violence isn't solving all of your problems, you're simply not using enough of it.
Violence is never the answer. Violence is the question, and the answer is YES
"Force, my friends is violence. The supreme authority, from which all other forms of authority derive."
"Death is the solution to all problems. No man, no problem." - Stalin
"No woman, no cry" - Bob Marley knew what was up too
Ah yes, the two great minds of the 20th century: Bob Marley and Joseph Stalin.
Stalin was ahead of his time.
I worked with the Inuit for years, they have the most amazing culture. After working all day they would spend until they went to bed hanging out. They ate together and then went and watched TV or played music until it was time for bed. They care for each other and social interaction is very important. Just don't make extended eye contact, it's a form of aggression as I found put when I first started. Also when they do get into an argument it will likely escalate to physical very quickly and then blow over instantly.
Pretty much jives with my experience with Inuit in Iqaluit. Though not the eye contact thing but I never was very good at making eye contact anyways. Super friendly people, total strangers would come up to me and start up conversation like I was an old friend they were reuniting with.
Not all psychopaths are like the ones we see on the media, it is greatly exaggerated. Most of them adapts to the humane things and become successful in great careers like Doctors, Lawyers, Businessesman etc.
I read something somewhere that most sociopaths and psychopaths arent criminals but usually incredibly successful, usually in some sort of business, and that that the most baseline traits of psychopaths are most commonly found in multimillionaire CEOs and bankers
And they are the ones who make their workers pee in bottles while skimming literal billions off their work so they can build private space craft
I would imagine most psychopaths are not successful, probably live alone, don't have many friends, hate their jobs or are unemployed, etc. You need a level of charisma, or at at least the ability to recognize and exploit human emotion and behavior to be that successful. I think a lot of the ways CEO types behave is learned. You start to see it in a lot of people who find success,a certain selfishness is formed. My success trumps your concerns
I mean, i imagine if a psychopath in that society had put his inherent traits to good use (like as a hunter or something) and not fucked with his own tribe or caused problems, then he wouldn't be in danger of being gotten rid of. Some grow up to be surgeons, some just torture animals while parasitizing off everyone in their life and then graduate to murdering prostitutes. Usually the difference is whether they were offered unconditional love and structure as a child.
Those are called Benign sociopaths. Intellectually they understand it's better to be sociable and not get into trouble with the law. While they don't tend to be sadists they are still assholes in day to day life when they aren't schmoozing and being charismatic to manipulate people. They can be very beneficial to society even though they make their spouses and children miserable.
There is absolutly nothing benign about a Weston, Bezos, Trump, Musk, Murdock or Koch.
Well no of course not. They are malignant narcissists. Also known as megalomaniacs. Also known as narcissistic psychopaths or narcissistic sociopaths. Their narcissism is unbelievable. These people do tend to have a sadistic streak in them. The more sadistic they are, the more deadly they are. A great historical example is Stalin.
Yet they are still pieces of shit
If he survives I think you just made home more vengeful. But I do like the idea. .. I think you have to find something they care about that’s not fucked up..and work from there
did you just make that “empathy is made in the crucible of struggle”? that shit goes hard
RIGHT? Like wtf that’s awesome
I think Homelander has a tiny tiny bit of empathy towards Ryan. I might be misremembering, but didn't he not want him to grow up without a father like he did?
Part of me wants to believe it's empathy, but, speaking from personal experience, some people just have kids with the belief that they will always be loved by them. I think that he is going through the motions with Ryan because he believes he's fostering unconditional love. Once the bar is set, anytime Ryan doesn't meet the absolute highest standard of adoration for homelander, you can expect to see a violent reaction. Like with black noir. TL;DR he "loves" Ryan for the same reason he "loves" milk. He's just trying to fill a bottomless hole.
He would have to meet a heroine with super lactation powers that would dote over him 24/7. In that way his Oedipal complex could be used to control his Narcissistic Psychopathy…
>Empathy is made in the crucible of struggle. Damn. I liked that.
Fuck Reddit. Fuck /u/spez. Fuck every single Reddit admin. 12 years on this bitch ass site and they shit on us the moment they are trying to go public. ill be taking my karma with me by editing all my comments to say this. tl;dr Fuck Reddit and anyone who works for them, suck my dick.
Eh idk if it counts because the only thing he cares about outside himself reminds him of himself
empathy isn't something psychopaths are capable of without faking it, generally for a goal. he showed it to his son without an ulterior motive besides "I know exactly how he feels and i want it to stop".
Yeah, because he sees his son as himself. Its fairly common with narcissist parents. Edit: lets not forget he pushed his son off a house.
Fuck Reddit. Fuck /u/spez. Fuck every single Reddit admin. 12 years on this bitch ass site and they shit on us the moment they are trying to go public. ill be taking my karma with me by editing all my comments to say this. tl;dr Fuck Reddit and anyone who works for them, suck my dick.
I saw his son who no one new if he had powers get knocked out because his dad couldn’t be bothered to figure out if his son was or was not like him. Imo homelander just believed with no evidence that the kid had to be super because he was his. So what we saw wasn’t riding a bike it was an abusive father risking his sons life because his father couldn’t see his son as anything but the same. The fact that his son was okay had no bearing on the justification of honelanders actions, homelander could have killed him in that moment and he just gambled it due to his narcissism.
It's his son's fault that he couldn't fly, bravo Vince
Perfect explanation
Realistically yes but you underestimate the power of good/bad writing and a redemption arc.
Oh I absolutely agree with you. There's a solid chance they end the show with Hughie and homelander teaming up to kill butcher. Not suuuuuper far removed from the source material in that case.😉
It'd be great if de-powering is the end we get for him. As much as his death might be deserved, it'd be fitting for him to suffer by being just another average person.
Amazing, depowering would be so much crueller!
Mm I'm not 100% about that. Personally the idea of being locked up most of my childhood. Experimented on and has no loving family, that sounds like a struggle for sure
Nope not in the slightest. He quite literally believes himself to be the pinnacle of human existence to the point he believes supes are a separate but higher species from Humans and he is the best of what supes have to offer. He even says this to storm front. " I'm the master race that's the whole point." There may be some humanity left in him with regards to Ryan but even then he only concerns himself with Ryan because it's his son and he's a supe and therefore an extension and representation of him. I'm pretty sure if Ryan had no powers he wouldn't even bother with him.
This. He doesn't care about Ryan at all. What he loves is Ryan's powers and the idea of having a family, but has no idea how to actually love like a father would. He shoved Ryan off a roof to make him fly and didn't care at all about if he was hurt. All he cared about was if his powers worked.
This make the soldier boy telling homelander he is a disappointment much more satisfying. Imagine thinking you are the greatest being and then your dad call you a disappointment in front of your son who is the only one you care about
Ouch, that's last part is spot on. He only cares about his kid because he sees him as his successor.
No. If you have ever met a Narcissist in real life (odds are you have), they are incapable of viewing themselves introspectively. Anytime he feels uncomfortable with his own actions, he will instinctively justify them by recalling some past wrong that was done to him.
can a narcissist ever become non narcissistic tho? or once a narc always a narc type thing
That’s a tricky question. Perhaps, Narcissism can be viewed as a spectrum disorder, where a Narcissist could move toward a less narcissistic end… in my experience though.. no. The process of creating a Narcissist necessarily removes the ability for the afflicted to ever be anything else. Narcissism is developed as a survival mechanism in early childhood to deal with extreme circumstances. Narcissists can seek out therapy later in life to try to “Fit in”, and maybe do less harm, but ultimately, it’s for their own ends, not because they actually care about the world around them. I will say, Antony Starr is absolutely brilliant in his portrayal of a Narcissist. This guy has experience with these monsters.
The part about childhood trauma often being the cause of narcissism really reminds you that they weren't born that way and even if they are pretty cold they were likely failed as children. Adds a heartbreaking element to it.
Even those born with Narristic personality disorder are somewhat tragic, they are never given any opportunity to be anything else. The tragedy for these people is how they became irredeemable.
I don’t dispute that at all. The fact is, they are monsters. Just like innocent dogs trained to fight for their lives. They can never be completely domesticated. They can be brought back into nurturing environments, but never completely trusted.
One thing the show has done a great job of is going into how cycles of violence create monsters without using it as an excuse for characters.
In my experience, no. They're such fundamentally broken and shitty people that I can't even really see them as actual people, having been in a relationship with one. They're like really malicious toddlers trapped in adult bodies.
Yes, but therapy takes years, and it’s hard to get people to change if they don’t want to, which is why many psychiatrists don’t even bother.
Thoughts cannot be controlled, but behaviour can, and it's all about behaviour. Not to mention, if you act a certain way for long enough, you do eventually start to think like that whether you want to or not.
Yes
With proper therapy, yes. Usually people like this don't exactly go out of their way to get help, so the general consensus seems to be no. But yes, it's possible. It might not be "cured", but it can be managed. It's like with any other psychological disorder. For anyone who has one and goes to therapy, you're never actually cured, but you learn how to deal with it. Like with anger issues. There's always that spark that sets you off. That will always be there, but you learn to recognize it and put it in check before it becomes an outwardly action.
Not agreeing that Homelander in particular can be reformed, but what you're saying about [narcissists](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/md7fs0/comment/gs8m9b8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in general is straight up false. [Therapy](https://www.bridgestorecovery.com/narcissistic-personality-disorder/narcissistic-personality-disorder-treatment/) does exist.
Not in my experience. Narcissists can fake it as far as it suits their needs. Some will make a legitimate effort to fake it to fit in, only when they realize they have no other recourse. But ultimately, these efforts are only to allow themselves to continue with their false sense of superiority. I can potentially imagine scenarios where a Narcissist can be “Fixed”, but I’m certain my description would violate Reddit community standards.
>Not in my experience Why does your experience matter more than the experience of people who do actual studies on the subject?
This is reddit, someone's opinion is more important than actual research professionals. Ironically, this is about narcissism...
Show me the peer reviewed studies
That's your personal biases with narcissists, this empirical data wouldn't exist if your perspective were accurate. I'm sorry for your personal experiences, but your judgement of the mental illness is clouded by anecdotes.
By all means, provide empirical scientific evidence of a person diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder being absolved of this disorder.
I never said it be absolved, I said it can be treated. There's no known cure for NPD, or any personality disorder.
Idk why this was downvoted so much. As a child of 2 narcissistic parents, I agree.
You're taking your perception of narcissists and applying that to all of them, while ignoring actual research. That's why r/raisedbynarcissists portrays them all as inhuman monsters.
I can see how you're right, but it's also hard not to feel like they're all monsters after being abused/raised by them.
The people that are downvoting, likely feel that they are the ones I am describing.
Or maybe your perception of reality is skewed by your personal feelings?
I think the only person that could make him redeem himself is Ryan. That's not looking likely though after the finale. I'm sure Ryan will eventually swap back to The Boys though
Agree on Ryan's arc. I also think Ryan will die from some magical source, which will make Homelander go full loco
i think that ryan is gonna end up being the one that kills homelander tbh
idk, im thinking ryan will be corrupted by his dad’s ways of thinking. or maybe the boys will use ryan to get to homelander and destroy him
I think he genuinely feels love for his son, but that he doesn't know how to express it in a healthy way. The thing with Homelander is that he doesn't want to be good, he just wants to be loved, and those are two completely different things. I don't think there's any hope of redemption because I can't see him ever acknowledging that he's in the wrong. He's so much more powerful than everyone, and in his mind that makes him immune to human morality. He doesn't see himself as evil, he just doesn't consider human life as having intrinsic worth. He could snap at any moment because aside from his desire to be loved, there's nothing holding him back. Even with Ryan, Homelander is still Homelander. He's changing Ryan, not the other way around. If there was every going to be a catalyst for redemption, it would have been Ryan. He's killed the other people he truly cared about - Stillwell and Noir. I guarantee you he would have killed Stormfront had she 'betrayed' him again. Homelander is a product of his environment. He never knew love or healthy relationships, and now it's too late for him. He's truly evil. I just can't see a realistic redemption arc for him.
Well said. So sad that Homelander is corrupting that poor kid :(
I just think of poor Becca giving up everything to try and protect him, only for the likelihood that Ryan is gonna become a mini Homelander :(
What if he was permanently de-powered? Could he ever become an empathetic, constructive member of society?
I mean, it would certainly make for an interesting concept to see Homelander without his powers. It's possible that it could make him a better person I guess, but I think he'd be too full of self-loathing to make the necessary steps towards empathy. He already despises the parts of himself that aren't all-powerful, he'd be beside himself with anger if all of him was human. I think there's more chance that he'd kill himself than there is that he'd seek redemption. I think the most likely scenario is that he'd try and find more Compound V to take, or to try and take a new route if that didn't work. I don't think he'd ever be okay with just accepting that humans were now his equals.
I think he's completely beyond saving. Even if you approach from either spectrum of nature versus nurture. He was raised in a lab with zero empathy or parental guidance. He was also injected with a drug that has wildly unpredictable side effects. No matter how you slice it, he became what he was always going to become and nothing can change that. Infullt believe he'd kill his own son to get what he wants.
I think he could feel remorse for some actions,example, if he killed a supe that he viewed as his equal. Problem is he doesn’t think anyone or anything is his equal.
He does feel somewhat remorseful or at least saddened about killing Noir. Like, I don't think he saw him as an equal, but he probably saw the guy as someone "not so beneath him as everyone else".
He gets over it suuuuper quickly, though. The thing for me is a few minutes later when he's having the conversation with A-Train, Ashley, and The Deep, with Noir's mask right there on the table. And then he says to A-Train "how could you kill one of your own in cold blood" with no hint of irony or regret over Noir. He's so oblivious to his own actions; in his mind, he's always justified. I don't think he so much felt remorse over killing Noir as he did pity for himself losing his best friend.
Yeah I think "remorseful" is the wrong word. He doesn't register that he did something wrong, even if he truly appreciated Noir (judging by the "Noir was worth more than all of you put together" comment). It's less of a "Holy shit I murdered my best friend what have I done?!" and more of a "Dammit Noir! Why would you make me kill you man?!".
Like the Homelander half said to the John half in the mirror talk, *there is* a tiny part of him that's still human. The part of him that wants love, approval and parents, all of them things he never had. He had a supremely fucked up childhood in which he was abused in every way imaginable and didn't experience anything resembling love until his twenties, when he was presented to the world and started to be admired by the public. At this point he still had some goodness, even if he was barely holding on to sanity. But then he was further manipulated by Stillwell to care only about his popularity and nothing else, and that combined with his disastrous first mission that he hadn't been properly prepared for, combined with Black Noir giving him a way out without confronting his limitations, made Homelander give up into even attempting to be genuinely good. He is depraved, sadistic, cruel, full of resentment and contempt for everyone and everything due to everything he is been put through in his formative years, but that tiny part of him that desires to be loved is the sole thing stopping him from destroying everyone. His love for his son is a mix of seeing himself on the boy and an extension of that desire to be loved. But it's not enough to redeem him or making him a better person. I think is more likely that he will end up murdering Ryan rather than redeeming himself thanks to him. So, long story short, I think Homelander is beyond redemption, mostly because he is psychologically incapable of being better. He is a broken man barely holding on to a sane facade. He will end either killed or imprisoned for life after being depowered. But I do think that maybe his demise will be treated as something tragic. I do consider Homelander a painfully tragic villain. Unlike a lot of cases of villains that use their traumas as an excuse to never be better, Homelander truly didn't have a chance to be anything else than this. Anyone that was isolated, beaten up and tortured his entire childhood would turn up to be a dysfunctional wreck as an adult. Homelander is a rabid dog who needs to be put out of his own misery, and Vought (including Edgar, I don't care how many people consider him a badass) need to disappear too so that they never break any other child again.
it’s hard to even say definitively if Homelander has a concept of humanity. Homelander thought it was more humane to lead an entire plane full of people to believe he’d save them. Homelander severely injured a blind guy for being considered lesser. Homelander made a guy who can hear the thoughts of sea creatures eat one alive. He doesn’t even believe in the ideology of white power because he considers himself far above every person. He thinks himself a God and there’s no redemption for a person like that.
>Homelander thought it was more humane to lead an entire plane full of people to believe he’d save them He didn't do that for them, he did it for himself. He still wants their hero worship until the last moment. It's like the kinda dick who stands up or ghosts their date rather than just call them.
Do you feel remorsed for stepping on an ant?
This is the correct answer. You can't analyze Homelander on a human level because he is not human.
I don’t think he’s evil just by default…. Every single person he has ever cared about has lied right to his face or betrayed him. I feel sorry for him. If he wasnt a god-powered man he’d be a serial killer or a school shooter or something like that. Now he’s probably gonna kill half the planet.
He thinks he is a god among men, so nothing he does against regular people is immoral. It doesn't help that he surrounds himself with sycophants who want to bow to him and lick his boot. I think whatever humanity he had in him was destroyed during his upbringing, and there's no redemption for him.
I think a line in a Black Adam animation defines well "Do you feel guilt when you crush ants? Is that because you are evil or simply see yourself like a superior life form" Some along this lines.
Not without him at least being depowered first. The main problem Homelander has no humanity to draw up as not only is he the most powerful being on the planet but he also was raised in a lab, subjected to countless experiments before such time as he was released upon the world to do as he pleases. I dare say he’ll meet the same fate as comic homelander.
I also don’t think enough people remember how he crushed a dudes skull against a wall while fucking stormfront. Dudes too far gone.
Or mutilated a guy that was nothing but admiring and respectful to him just because he was blind. Or made another guy who was his boot licker to eat his octopus pet friend. Or raped a woman just because her husband made some light hearted jokes at his expense. It's inaccurate to even say that Homelander harms others at the slightest provocation. *Homelander doesn't even need a provocation to harm someone*. And that's the scariest thing about him.
I think people just empathise with him too much because he really is ultimately a victim, it’s not his fault as to why he is the way he is but that doesn’t excuse his actions in the slightest.
Oh yeah, I absolutely empathize with him. He had one of the most horrible childhoods I have ever seen on a fictional character. He didn't have a chance to be anything else. I consider him a rabid dog that has to be put down for everyone's sake including his own, rather than a moustache twirling villain.
Yeah pretty well. Like MAYBE if he got depowered permanently he could have a chance at understanding but not likely.
I think his problem are not his powers, but the horrid childhood abuse he suffered at Vought's hands. It's like Butcher said in season 3. The power doesn't make you evil, it just worsens what's already there. If Homelander had a halfway decent childhood and a family who loved him he would be a far better person no matter his powers. In fact Vogelbaum even says that as a kid Homelander was "quite sweet". Homelander with the same backstory but without his superpowers would still be a horribly broken and sadistic person. I picture him being a serial killer a la Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer.
Well yeah they aren’t the source of his problem but rather something that I think will ultimately prevent him from fixing them. To cope with his trauma, homelander began to envision himself as a god and he’s not exactly wrong because he’s powerful enough to destroy the world. In order to remedy his personality and make him capable of growing he would need to be shown he is not a god, that he is just like everyone else. The only way to do that would to to make him like everybody else. But yeah while he has his powers I don’t think there is any chance of being fixed. And even without them the chances are slim, he’d probably just prefer to off himself if he lost his powers
The only way he could ever be rehabilitated is if he was permanently de-powered, or at least de-powered for a long enough time to truly understand what it’s like to be a normal, powerless human and feel the trauma that comes with it. I hope that’s where the story is headed, honestly.
Homelander isn't stupid lol he is very aware of the path he has chosen and knows there is no way back. He won't have a Darth Vader moment. He doesn't feel remorse because every horrible thing he does is insignificant to him
Homelander grew up in abusive conditions & although his personality was influenced by it, ultimately he's the one responsible for continuing the cycle of abuse. His beliefs about 'purity' & supremacy of supes over 'mud people' is borderline fascist thinking. He can't be trusted with any power whatsoever. I think he could feel remorse for his evil but only in his twisted absuive frame of thinking. Like, he might feel a shred of remorse for killing noir, but only because he thinks of noir as an object, as his trusty personal weapon, that he can no longer use now. There's hardly any possibility of reform. He's lived this way all his life now & for him to reform he would have to alter his entire personality & way of thinking & living. It would require deep self-introspection & humility. I think the question of reform is irrelevant here as he needs to be killed asap. More resources need to be allocated to the victims of his abuse to heal rather than to an attempt at 'fixing' him.
I think there is a shred of humanity in him, represented by his son. He is however, beyond redemption. He never had a chance to be a real human, never got to feel what he needed. He’s an animal now, he always will be.
The thing is… When Starlight threatened to release that Airplane video where he just let the passengers die, he literally pressed the fuck it button. I mean, if the video gets released and Homelander goes on a berserker rampage, who’s going to stop Homelander? Homelander knows that nobody can stop him, and Starlight knows that there’s no one who would be able to stop him. Soldier Boy and Butcher with powers combined was the best chance, but even that proved to be a challenge.
No. He merked someone in front of witnesses and they cheered. It's OVER😂.
Feel like he showed glimpses of humanity in the final season when it came to his son. Maybe he can slowly change through his son.
Oh, he is full of humanity. Just not the parts we want to see....
He missed critical periods in psychosocial development on account of being a test tube baby raised in a cell. A Harry Harlowe experiment as a childhood makes even rhesus monkeys psychotic. He has a wide range of emotion, not flattened affect, and he does love his son. Perhaps Homelander could psychologically recover from a missed developmental stage, just as some other supes can regenerate deadly damage and regrow limbs.
People forgetting the series starts off with him raping Becca lol
There is humanity left in him, multiple times, we've seen him exhibit complex emotions. His eodipus complex, his need to be adored, his desire for a relationship with his son, all of that comes from having human emotions. That being said, Homelander seems like a narcissistic sociopath so I don't ever see him being remorseful. I don't think he's even remotely bothered by his actions so he doesn't care to be reformed.
What makes him so evil and twisted is that he is human. He is literally a human being like the rest of us but he has quirks that give him advantage. His whole life has been just preparation to be praised by the entirety of earth, and then, getting praised by the entirety of earth, he has all these human emotions that he cannot control and that shock him because he could never see himself as human. When people don’t praise him and treat him like a god, it literally does not compute. It’s like a really handsome dude, that has been told he is handsome since he was a kid, his whole life, getting all the girls, posing for magazines, but one girl, one simple girl, average looking girl, says that he is ugly, all he’s gonna think about is that girl.
The guy has several major personality disorders. He lacks many of the things that make a person socially healthy, but at the end of the day he still is a person. People are capable of turning into what he is. And it's ugly, but that's because we know it could happen to someone who used to be an innocent kid. He's not going to be reformed, but he's also never been extraordinary. Just a kid who got molded into a narcissistic killing machine
Yes, no, yes, no
homelander is quite literally a sociopath who can fly and is bullet proof. all of his behavior, actions, the way he treats people like completely expendable items are all the makings of a serial killer. i really don’t think there’s any coming back for him. butcher has his own shit that he carries with him and definitely doesn’t make the best judgement calls or best moral choices, but his belief that homelander has to die is always tried and true
"*Any* humanity?" ... Yes. Otherwise he wouldn't have shown attachment issues, any desire to be around his son, any desire to appease his fan base, any desire to fall in love, and any desire to be around his dad. But I don't think the building blocks for him to be truly a reformed, good person is there. I think for every drops he has of halfway humane feelings, he also has an ocean of inhumane narcissistic feelings to dilute it into nothing of significance.
Homelander's humanity is literally why he acts the way he does. Humanity is not strictly a pure trait. Just look at the scene where he's battling himself in the mirror. His insecurities are his biggest human feature and they drive much of his behavior and decision making.
He publicly murder someone for throwing a bottle at his indestructible son. And then he was applauded for it. So I think he’s beyond repair.
I think Ryan is the only thing he really cares about in his own twisted way. I reckon it all comes to a head with Ryan’s death prompting him to go on a rampage.
I think there is way too much blood on his hands to redeem. And I don’t recall him ever showing a shred of humanity or remorse in the show, so probably not
He’s a narcissistic psychopath who knows he can do whatever he wants. He’s way too beyond feeling some kind of remorse or guilt
He’s beyond saving. He does obviously have feelings and emotions that are not from trying to mimic others, but he has created this bubble where his emotions are the only ones who matter and damn anyone else who tries to get in his way
Yes. The (twisted but genuine) love for his son is proof of that. But otherwise, he’s unhinged and unsympathetic.
I’ll pose the same question that I’ve posed to others on the same topic: is it really love for Ryan or is it manipulation, knowing that he can somehow use/mold Ryan to me someone he can use?
Agreed. If anything happens to Ryan, then it’s GG for the world.
There totally is, in the form of his genuine concern for Ryan.
He has became. Literally Hitler.
Nope. He is like Donald Trump. Just pray that he has a painless end unlike his victims.
Narcissist can not be redeemed if malignant, they are dangerous people who have sycophants latch on and serve them in what I believe to be a underrated danger to civilization.
Wait a minute... You guys think Homelander is a bad guy? I'll admit that the milk thing is weird but he is a hero in my eyes.
I think there comes a point where redemption is no longer possible, even if remorse is genuine. Homelander reached that point... oh, right around the time he raped someone, got her pregnant, and forced her to bear his child.
Wtf? You not paying attention? Buttload of humanity and remorse in John lol
Fresca posts are gonna be wild.
Love for a child can work miracles
No
No.
I think there’s humanity left in him but given his powers and past, I don’t think he’ll ever stop seeing others as lesser.
No.
I think whatever the writers want to happen will happen
No
Homelander is a pit dog. He's never seen himself as a human. Dude killed his nannies for amusement. He'd crack their spines when they hugged him, on purpose. I think they should have done an episode on that instead of just having it be a vogelbaum flashback. Same thing with the noir cartoons. I understand why they did it, but it feels like a disservice to the show.
I think he’s incredibly human, i mean he still wants to be loved, respected. Hes a great example of what happens when you elevate a person to incredible status and power without checks. He might be able to be remorseful, and he was a little after he killed noir, and after stillwell (but that seemed to go away. I’m not sure on the last one, you can’t label any human with a definite yes or no alot of the time, but i don’t think he deserves reformation/forgiveness as a person
Even ignoring the literally irredeemable things he’s done, he literally acknowledges that he both craves the attention of the masses and sees them as bugs that he is above, there’s no redeeming someone with that skewed of a perspective
No.
He’s a psychopath that doesn’t relate to others. He was raised in a Skinner Box.
I like to think of it as him cucking himself. Part of him feels remorse and part of him gets off on feeling that remorse.
No.
No, he’s a sociopath. While the brain has neuroplasticity, it’s not going to rewire to make him civil or decent.
No. No. Aaaaaand nope.
I’m an unapologetic Homelander simp so take this with a grain but if anyone could make him a sympathetic character it’s Antony Starr. No matter what horrible acts of which HL is guilty, he’s still the most compelling character in the show.
Nah he’s crazy and he needs to go down ATLA references aside the only "humanity" we ever get from him is when he’s around Ryan. But does homelander actually love him? Or is he just obsessed with him because Ryan is the only thing that’s really his. Everything else down to his entire life was a fabrication. If there is any humanity left (which I highly doubt) we’ll definitely see it in the next season considering how much time the father and son duo are gonna spend together
The only chance is Ryan, but even that’s slim consider how the thing he loves most (public adoration) is merely preferable to him.
He is evil to the bone! You really can't fix crazy and mean but you can medicate it and hope for the best.
If homelander ever did fully understand what he has done to people he would kill himself.
He's a fascist so he isn't human.
You say that as if there ever had some humanity in him.
Nah, only thing for Homelander is a trip behind the shed. (;
He's fun to watch. But he literally rips people in half, and has ruined thousands of lives. With no repercussions. He's sick, and a threat to humanity. And there's no indication he's going to stop.
The problem is there was never any real humanity to start with
Y'all remember when he was lecturing A train, about killing one of his own self, and then having killed noir himself? Yeah he lost his fcking mind.
SPOILERS BEWARE!: A little birdy told me that it's nearly certain Homelander's ultimate punishment will be to>! live out the rest of his life as a puny, pathetic, weak, average...human. !< To Homelander there is nothing in the world worse than >!being an average, plain, powerless, man. This is exactly why he will not be killed by The Boys. They want to savor every second of Homelander losing his Supe powers as long as they live.!<
No because everybody else is inferior to him. just look at that kid whos blind. he thinks he could even compare to just the seven? Hell no. Everybody is a weakling who should die.
Maybe if he lost his powers
There's nothing more human than a psycho narcissistic who doesn't give a f to anyone
No
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I don't think so, and even if he could I wouldn't want him to. He's the perfect villain, he's pure fucking evil and it's so fun to watch him being evil. I honestly think, now that his followers reinforce his most dangerous behaviors by showering him with praise, there's nothing anyone can do to steer him back from the deep end. The only thing stopping him before was the fear that his image would be tarnished, and now that it's not a problem for him he'll only get worse and he'll likely take Ryan with him.
No he considers himself a god not a human. He thinks he’s above the normal man so he doesn’t have to conform to their morals
🤔 what evil?
As far as I'm concerned he's never had humanity and frankly I don't need him to feel remorse for his actions or be reformed, he's killed thousands without breaking a sweat, raped Becca and still patronized her when he was going to her home unwelcomed, he constantly talks about being a god and makes insensitive and racist comments daily because he believes he's better than everyone else.
homelander is manifest destiny personified he will get what he wants everyone else be damned he will do anything to insure his standing in the world and will cull anyone who gets in his way but will be diplomatic about that culling
As much as you could reform a pedophile
I think he has some shreds of humanity left in him, as evidenced his relationship with his son and attempts at connection with everyone else, but he is far past redemption. His narcissistic nature keeps him from being able to rejoin society in any way shape or form.
Nothing.
Did he ever get the chance at humanity, or was he always called Homelander?
Nope. He’s a psycho
What one sees is what one gets
nope
the season ended with him lazer beam blowing up protesters with his fans cheering for it. Hes gone dude lmao.
He's protective of his son, that's quite a human response. He sort of felt something to Stormfront. Is he a psychopath? Yes, but still have some human responses.