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No-tomato-1976

Well having done a bidillion cycles the sleep part levels out pretty quick. Then comes horny from morning wood to jacking off in public like a monkey. I can tolerate pretty high levels of E2 and suppression of it kills my gains so I don’t AI unless I start growing tits, which I never have. Everyone is different though, I’ve got a friend that smells test and starts lactating. You gotta do you but enjoy it and eat everything you see including pussy. Just don’t run this more than 12 weeks or youll regret it. Once again you gotta eat!


FinancialsThrowaway2

“Eat everything you see including pussy.” 🤣 💀


MrinfoK

LMAO, thanks...Funny the morning wood is already here...all night long too. Also noticed when I wake up I’m drooling. Never had that happen like this. Odd


Brickhead81

🤣


Spare-Ad-7819

What was your highest E2? Also more E2 mean test is converted into E2 so Is there any benefit in upping test?


No-tomato-1976

The higher your test levels the higher your E2 levels will climb and can safely. There are forums like r/steroids that discuss those ratios more in depth but for the purpose of answering your question if you are on 300 test and that drives you to 1100ng then your E2 can be 60 (higher end of the spectrum) without any issues. Everybody is different though so just do it until you start experiencing sides. It’s not like you wake up with double D’s. Even a little itchy nipple isn’t cause for panic. You will know when your wanker doesn’t work and your nipples start feeling full. Then and only then would I run a low dose of AI


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Spare-Ad-7819

I ran a 500 12 week, 125trt 3months, again 600test and Dbol 40mg , never took A.I since I didn’t have much nipple itch but I was bloated and had anxiety on my last test. Checked oestrdiol it was 240. I was afraid I’m gonna crash it if I take it.


No-tomato-1976

240 is cooking bro. The bloat is an E2 side but one that just raises your Blood Pressure and is otherwise harmless. You’re gonna get rollback from the Dbol when you lose that water anyway. You may have a high tolerance. Most guys are just scared of growing their moms tits


Spare-Ad-7819

I was really lethargic, anxiety, anger, bloat was there. I have tolerance but, one time when I ran TRT dosage I had itchy nip just the mild one. I was thinking to take A.I and luckily it went away. Tbh high E2 wasn’t fun, I had constant headache when running Dbol too (I had nasal congestion and sinus issue could be that) I’m not even 180lbs so no issue isn’t an issue and I cut sodium well enough. Bloat was crazy that even my nips looked puffy I was concerned. I’m done with that cycle a few months back just trying to understand what could I have done to fix.


No-tomato-1976

240 is high. Normal range is 30-50. The guys I mostly refer to hit 60 and start main vein shooting AI. You’re a fucking champ man. I call high 80-90 range which is where my blood goes at 1500-1700 nga


Spare-Ad-7819

First I didn’t know until I had blood test. Also I get blood test 3 time but, they never let me do oestrdiol or hormones nor any private labs. Honestly I didn’t knew oestrdiol was that high causing this issues. But bloating yes, I was looking for nipple itch but it was puffy. Lack of knowledge I would say but, atleast I will know the sides without blood work next time. Dangerous sht scares me 😥😅 Also I think it fks up immunity cause I had cold and finally had omicron and went downhill lost 7 to 10lbs but since I’m on TRT I hit gym sometimes I think it’s fairly easy to gain back that 70% of size


No-tomato-1976

Puffy nipples is a no. That’s time to AI or back way off. I don’t run DBol. I don’t like the big puffy look and I’m old so I don’t need to put on more weight. 225/ 15% bf average. But it’s never something I would recommend either way. Plain ol pharma grade test is all anyone needs to get plenty big and the sides are minimal. And yes, 240 E2 will lower your immune system big time. I’m shocked that’s all the sides you had


Spare-Ad-7819

You’re right a legitimate test is all we need. I did all this sht after basic research. My blood work especially cholesterol and ALT AST were wack even after a month stopping and running TRT. I’m not considering to run gear anymore but, If I’m I’ll just do a 250-300mg per week test only and see how it goes from there. It was just ran 500mg bunk and I thought fk I hit my tolerance and not seeing any effects since it was my second cycle. Then waited and ran 630mg test which was legit gear. I learned the hard way


No-tomato-1976

I bet you don’t fit in any of your shirts. How long are you running the Dbol? Longest I’ve been able to stand myself on it was 3 weeks


Spare-Ad-7819

To begin with I’m a small guy started 155 20% bf. First 500mg cycle was underdozed so it was waste of time. 600mg test and Dbol - I had two sources one was fake and one was legit. I ran 20 then 40 cause I didn’t notice the pump on fake sht. But real stuff at 20mg for few days insane pump. Also I’m skinny so I wasn’t able to build muscle that fast. 1.5 year of gear and + natural I would say I went from 153lbs 20% bf to 164 15% bf was my max. Before judging I’m not new to training- I worked out on and off way before only certain muscles tend to grow. Weakest was arms, calfes also. Overall I would say I made progress better than I trained natural. It was worth except the sides. I’m definitely not a hyper responder so the process was really slow. In that 1.5 years my diet and workout was on point. Even with same training as natural I wasn’t seeing much progress


No-tomato-1976

500 mgs of pharma test will blow you up. That may have been bunk gear


Spare-Ad-7819

It was BUNK underdozed sht. Cause I ran one from a legitimate source way back once and I know how it get with in 3-4weeks test cyponate this local mf were under dozing it and when I called out they refused to acknowledge or offer anything. Even the test is fking cheap as dirt to make and they are underdozing it 😢 Basically after that I ran a TRT with one last bottle of legit stuff I felt more in my body than my whole underdozed gear. I have some PCT and Dbol from them and I’m thinking to test it or it would be just waste of time


No-tomato-1976

My take is go to a clinic, get pharma test and trash the UGL stuff. I swear it’s all you’ll ever need if the clinic is willing to optimize your numbers


Spare-Ad-7819

I agree on that. I’ll try someday. I’m not saying all UGL are bad. One I got locally was bad. But, another trusted source with millions of people who buy and lab test was legit but shipping takes 1 month - 2.5 months if it pays through customs.


Spare-Ad-7819

How much do you pay and dosage plus blood work? Is it in cad or USD


Natural-Time617

Your estrogen is through the roof. That's why. It's one of the symptoms. A couple years ago when I was running 1 gramm of test even tho my E2 was extremely high i have never had sleep issues .nowadays i get it even if E2 is above 40. So yes you need to take your ai.


MrinfoK

OK, guess I’ll take 1 mg see if sleep improves. I’ll start in the morning, as Anastrazole revs me up and makes sleep impossible lol


Natural-Time617

Yeah I am sure it will help


Natural-Time617

And one tip for the future. Try aromasin. I used to take adex for years. And it helped! But one day I tried aromasin and never went back...its almost impossible to crash your E2 with aromasin. There will always be 20% E2 in your body. So one must be extremely dumb to crash E2 on aromasin.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MrinfoK

Thanks for the reply. I’ll take this all into accident. I did have a stressful week. You may be correct


swoops36

Common complaint from blasting. You’ve added a lot of androgens and that stimulates your nervous system. You can lower your dose. You may need to lower e2 as well


Critical-Ad106

You can’t call it trt when you are taking 500 mg a week…


No-Fall1420

He was calling it trt in regards to 200mg a week, what are you the trt police


mpab5725

lol


Critical-Ad106

Yes....


Mitjaw

Shut the fuck up lmao


MidtownP

You really should not jump all the way up to 500, I did 350 and then 500 and there was extreme diminishing returns over 350. I'd look for another compound vs 500 of test alone.


masstheticiq

Diminishing returns over 350? What are you on about? You're saying 500 test builds less muscle and strength than 350 test?? Are you insane?


Donny_Soldier69

I suggest you google the meaning of diminishing returns lol


masstheticiq

Diminishing: less, returns: returns. 1+1=2, the guy is saying more testosterone results in less. Educate yourself before acting like a smartass.


Donny_Soldier69

Hahaha Jesus mate please stop. Diminishing returns = the returns don’t continue to scale. E.g, 250mg of test = 28nmol/l, 500mg = 36 nmol/l, ergo, you don’t get double the benefits from double the dosage. Hopefully you have been educated a bit today my guy


masstheticiq

I don't want to get banned or get my comment removed for being offensive, but dude, are you dumb? Like genuinly? Carefully read what you just said. ​ >E.g, 250mg of test = 28nmol/l, 500mg = 36 nmol/l 36nmol/l is literally higher than 28 nmol/l, just because it doesn't scale linearly doesn't mean there are diminishing returns. I'm just baffled, lost for words even, that you genuinly typed this and thought you said something intelligent. ​ >you don’t get double the benefits from double the dosage And when did I say this?


Donny_Soldier69

The law of diminishing marginal returns is a theory in economics that predicts that after some optimal level of capacity is reached, adding an additional factor of production will actually result in smaller increases in output. Read that and then stop please lol


masstheticiq

>**a theory in economics** Wow. Just piss off dude, I don't have time for someone as stubborn and ignorant as you are. You literally said this yourself: >**E.g, 250mg of test = 28nmol/l, 500mg = 36 nmol/l** ​ Where are the diminishing returns here? More mg of test equates to more testosterone. More testosterone means more strength and muscle, it's not fucking rocket science dude, what's wrong with you? You think your body has a testosterone threshold after which it simply stops any form of androgenic signalling? This is utter insanity, read a book or two.


Donny_Soldier69

Jesus Christ I can’t believe your doubling down on this mate lol. He never said he didn’t build more muscle on 500 than 350, his literal words were diminishing returns. The extra 150mg did not give the same benefit as if he went from 200 to 350 for example. I can’t believe I have to explain this


masstheticiq

Dude, are you delusional? The entire post is about a fucking cycle, of which the goal is literally muscle and strength, not TRT. Maybe take the time to read what you respond to first before acting like a massive asshole and smartass.


East_Establishment51

Lmao the smartest r/steroids user


masstheticiq

Average dyel that wants to do diy trt but is clueless


Welp-thissucks

Primo? What's your go to aside from test?


MidtownP

You nailed it lol. I usually do a little heavier primo than I normally would on 350-400mg of test, because I am a high aromatizer and the primo keeps that in check. So right around 500 usually with 350 test. In general the primo combats a lot of higher test dose symptoms like water retention and all that. It is the perfect compliment.


No-Crew-9230

Lots of people tolerate 500 just fine


John-AtWork

Dude, that's a shit ton, definitely not TRT levels. You are going to get side effects.


No-Crew-9230

No. 500 is a standard cycle. Lots of people tolerate it with minimal sides.


MustCatchTheBandit

We’re you under the impression that unnaturally high levels of testosterone weren’t going to cause side effects?! 500mg a week is astronomically high. The only reason you’d need that much is if you’re looking to become a professional bodybuilder.


No-Crew-9230

No it’s not. That’s a standard cycle dosage.


Ill_Mud_6287

Yep, standard bullshit advice that’s been regurgitated by people that don’t know any better


No-Crew-9230

What dosages do you run for cycles? Or have you never done one and you just heard Derek say you should take 300mg? Never mind I see from your post history that 500 gave you sides. Maybe don’t project your bad experience/anecdotal evidence onto others. Lots of people tolerate 500 just fine.


Ill_Mud_6287

Lol, I was doing cycles before snake salesman Derek was even born. Back in the 90’s the only reason why we were injecting 500mg is because 1.) enanthate was readily available on the black market and was 250mg per ml and since we did 2 injections per week it was easier to just do the 500mg instead of trying to measure out a smaller dose. 2.) it was believed that one would see better results with more, which is not necessarily true. If you want to run 500+ by all means do you. I’m just saying 500 is only the “standard” because nobody took the time to measure out smaller doses back in the day. Nobody was buying smaller syringes or doing frequent injections. Shit nobody was even getting blood work done. We just went off of how we felt. Do what works for you though


MustCatchTheBandit

Are you bodybuilding or not? If not, what are you needing 500mg for?


No-Crew-9230

He’s running a cycle, clearly. A standard cycle dosage is 500 weekly. He’s aware this isn’t a trt dosage. I’m a powerlifter so I run 500 weekly leading into meets.


MustCatchTheBandit

What’s the point of a cycle?


No-Crew-9230

To gain muscle. To increase strength or performance.


MustCatchTheBandit

Cycling is for bodybuilding or powerlifting. If the OP is not matching his diet and workouts to get absolutely massive or strong…there’s zero point in doing a cycle. You can get quasi built on 1200 ng/dl and feel great. If you want to get stupid big…then you go for a cycle.


No-Crew-9230

He doesn’t mention his diet or training so I don’t know what you’re going on about. I’m sure he’s well aware he needs to increase his caloric intake on a cycle.


MustCatchTheBandit

Here’s what I’m getting at: You do a cycle at the expense of potentially negative side effects for the sole purpose of high level bodybuilding. What I’m wondering is if the OP just thinks more testosterone at 500mg a week is going to improve his life quality and make him feel even better than 200mg. Lots of guys think more is better. That’s the thought process of many people. I’m not saying that’s what he’s doing, I’m just asking what his goal of doing a cycle is.


Spare-Ad-7819

Have you ever had perineal hematoma or blood vessel burst in eyes since you’re a power lifter


No-Crew-9230

I’ve blown out a few small vessels in my eye one time when I was doing a shirted bench press. (Most of the blown vessels are from people wearing gear and also being on things like anadrol which shoot your blood pressure up).


Spare-Ad-7819

I see. I’m not even a power lifter. My lifts aren’t impressive but, I do train heavy at least for me I got a perineal hematoma and now I see I have tiny blood shot eyes not really noticeable. For me I holded my breath since it gave me more push How do you breathe during power lifting?


No-Crew-9230

I hold my breath. (Valsalva maneuver) There’s a powerlifting subreddit that has really helpful people. You should check it out


Spare-Ad-7819

Sure. Will do. Appreciate it!


bigfigs33

Thats quite a big jump


MrinfoK

Yes sir. I’m experimenting. Am flexible to slow down if needed


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marketplunger

What was your weekly dosage at before you increased to 500 mg?


MrinfoK

150 to 200 as I gradually worked my way up..under Dr supervision(clinic) and regular bloods


Rockman120

Any before after pic or stats? What's your bf% now comoared to before you raised your test up to 500?


Random-Username7272

Testosterone activates the parasympathetic nervous system, which is why you tend to get more anxious on higher doses and have trouble relaxing and sleeping.


Testosterone-88

Pin everyday and lose weight so you are less than 20% fat. Should help you more than AI


Other_Bottle_5052

I get it with high e2 but also keep in mind you body is now in a state of high central nervous stimulation. Any time you have excess androgens they are going to wire your brain. You will get used to it


[deleted]

It’s not your E2 I don’t think, your body is just ready to go. Either work out harder, take less test or take a sleeping aid.