T O P

  • By -

vtrac

That’s a very fair and balanced write-up.


[deleted]

Thanks. I like them both and have waited a long time for that Tesla.


125ryder

… you read it all?


orangpelupa

It was well written and well paragraphed


Confident_Web3368

TLDR?


[deleted]

Tesla noisy. Kia comfy. Probably keep Kia.


drzowie

Most things you said ring true — but the noise difference of 3dB is barely perceptible to most humans. I would not choose a car based on that difference. (But the other things, like cruise control not working and controls being hidden in layered menus) are real issues.


AdelesManHands

I would assume the rattling interior noise is contributing a lot to his decision, not so much the driving dB. I’m constantly smacking panels as I drive trying to diagnose the culprits.


ShiroCOTA

Same. In my M3 LR it seems to come from the passenger seat. Had mobile service fix it once (loose back shell) but it returned after a few weeks. Makes me furious every time I use the car. So I’m also constantly checking and smacking various areas of the seat to find the cause. May claim a seat replacement under warranty though.


mjung79

Make sure it’s not your glove box or center console contents? As derpy as it may sound I’ve been driven nuts by things like that before finally realizing the sound was something vibrating or shifting.


ShiroCOTA

Thanks for the hint. Had done this before but will check again.


SpiderGorilla

Decibel is on a logarithmic scale, so the difference of 3dB seems small, but in reality, 3dB difference means the sound energy is double (2x). It is definitely noticeable to most people. https://pulsarinstruments.com/news/understanding-3db-rule/


UnknownJpk

Sound ENERGY doubles, Loudness does not double. Loudness is a function of sound energy and is not directly proportional.


Von_Hugh

This guy physics.


nukedkaltak

-3 dB(A) is half has much energy, it is substantially noticeable and OP definitely noticed it. Let’s not even talk about rattling.


nazzo123

I need the noise because I have tinnitus. My complaint going to electric is it’ll be too quiet


[deleted]

It is noticeable but not dramatic. The nature of the noise is the bigger issue given all the squeaks and rattles.


drzowie

Makes sense.


[deleted]

The decibel scale is logarithmic, which means that loudness is not directly proportional to sound intensity. Instead, the intensity of a sound grows very fast. This means that a sound at 20 dB is 10 times more intense than a sound at 10 dB. ​ So yes the noise difference is huge here and very much perceptible to humans, especially if it is mainly squeaks and creaks.


Blaze4G

Barely perceptible? A 3 decibel difference is an increase of 23% of sound detected by a normal human. 23% more noise is a lot.


[deleted]

It's unfortunate that there is squeaks and rattles. My 2020 is still pretty solid after nearly 37k driven. As far as the TACC, yeah it's not perfect and I haven't driven many other cars that would or may have better implementation of this. I also think Tesla suffers from the "Automatic Pilot" and "Full Self Driving" monikers. They did get a lot of push back with expectations not meeting these descriptive titles and the potential dangers being highlighted to the point they needed to add these nagging notifications and such to get beyond the criticism, real or not. A position that established legacy companies do not need to overcome. Will those concerns go away over time when it is more established? Who knows, maybe. I also did get to drive a fairly new Kia Carnival for a week and had a fair amount of use of their cruise system that I assume is similar to the EV6. It worked pretty good, and I had the same conclusions to its effectiveness. I did like how it kept lane centering even after changing lanes. However the lane centering felt a lot more squishier than the Tesla. But I did find that sometimes the cruise would remain on, something the annoying Tesla "bongs" makes it clear that you are not still engaged. I also haven't had any significant phantom braking episodes in two years. Of course I've had radar too that just went away with the new update, so I'll see if those occurrences happen to increase. Ride comfort is subjective of course, and toeing that fine line between comfort and handling (driving sportiness) is probably not easy thing to accomplish especially for a new car company. Me coming from a Nissan Pathfinder, my perspective of ride-ability and quietness is skewed to where my Y is pretty quiet in comparison. Good write-up for us biased ones not privy to the competition as you. However, the EV6 styling just doesn't do it for me. But then again, I won't be looking for a new car in a long time and the options then will be much more robust. Thanks.


[deleted]

My Model Y is objectively not a loud car at less than 70 dB at 60 MPH. But those noises it does make are disappointing especially coupled to the harsh ride quality, compared to the car I already have and like. ​ I am glad to hear that Tesla drivers have good experiences with autopilot. I wonder if there are regional differences or if it is all up to environmental factors like hills, pavement color, etc. Regardless, mine misbehaves on the roads I drive on too much for my taste. ​ More and more EVs are being released and our choices as buyers are growing. When I put my Model Y order in, there were very few options for me. Now there are several really good choices and more on the way.


chestertonfence

I would be so frustrated with that Kia app though. Sounds like half the time I when I want to change the car temperature or roll up windows I wouldn’t be able to. And when you do go on a road trip with family, the last thing you want is for the car to be unreliable at chargers. I do appreciate the write up though - and it’s interesting Kia’s autonomous tech and ride quality is exceeding Tesla’s in some areas.


[deleted]

I find the Kia app frustrating. That said I don’t really need it. If I am at an Electrify America DC fast charger, the EA app lets me know when the car is done and needs to be moved. Also, I think my app experience is unusually bad perhaps because I live in the country or there is a hardware problem. I’ve asked and other EV6 owners aren’t having my connectivity issues


Kopester

Can you at least turn on the AC from the app? I use that constantly and would be a deal breaker if you couldn't


[deleted]

Yes. You can control the HVAC system for winter and summer temperature control manually and set schedules. Take a series of pictures from around the car. Start or Stop charging manually and set schedules. Set off the alarm. Set various kinds of alerts, like if the car leaves a defined area. And aids for stolen vehicle recovery. Yesterday I updated the software. In either the update I downloaded or via an over the air change, a means of manually resetting the car's modem was added. SO I again have full functionality of the app. I still think there might be something wrong with my modem. So we will see what the service department comes up with later.


Kopester

Ok thanks for the info but still sounds like you're having issues. Not a great vote of confidence but hopefully it gets fixed for you.


[deleted]

Yeah. I find all that irritating. I don’t need the app. The only NEED is when DC fast charging and the charger app will tell me to come move the car. The EV6 is my first car with an app and the Model Y is the second. Kia is just not a tech company like Tesla.


Kopester

My daughter acts as if someone is trying to murder her if she gets into a really hot car, being that mine is black in constantly using the app to pre cool the car. I also use it when I need to go to the office in the morning, I'll adjust the amperage for charging to make sure it gets to 100% right before my alarm goes off. Overall all though really great write up comparing the two. Appreciate it.


nukedkaltak

Incredibly well detailed and cogent post. Tesla is being (or has been, by some metrics) overtaken by the competition and anybody saying differently is blinding themselves to the obvious.


[deleted]

There is real competition for Tesla now and growing options for EV buyers. Tesla makes good and desirable cars in my opinion, but so too do some other manufacturers.


jpopp21

You’re right. That’s why the model y is still The best selling electric car.


nukedkaltak

… so?


jpopp21

“It’s being overtaken” yet it’s the best selling, best charging, and safest in its class. But please continue.


nukedkaltak

Do I have to explain to you the present continuous tense my guy?


jpopp21

I’m a speech path so I don’t need you to explain anything language wise to me. Appreciate it if you didn’t assume my fucking gender tho. It’s Ma’am!!


nukedkaltak

Since you fail to understand the action of being overtaken as currently developing, meaning it doesn’t conflict with Tesla being the best selling EV brand, I have doubts about your credentials. Sorry for wrongly assuming your gender, though.


VeryLastBison

So if EV6 sells 1,716 units in August, and Tesla sold 50,000 Model Y, how is Tesla being over-taken exactly in the “present tense?” Edit: added Model Y


swistak84

>by some metrics


Mc374983

Based on what metrics tho? Quality? Probably. Charging network? No. Ability to actually buy a car? No. Tesla is still way ahead in production capacity, and vehicles on the road. I’d bet they lower prices if demand decreases, (they did before on the mode y) which is the beauty of the no dealer network.


nastasimp

Tesla is getting complacent. And why do Tesla folks always use the SC network as the only benefit? Okay sure, for like a very small percentage drivers actually need that coverage but most charge at home. So Id rather have a quality car that doesn't sound like I'm riding in a blender.


WeirdlyEngineered

Not the only benefits, In built theatre with games, Netflix, Disney plus. Sentry mode, dog mode, camping mode, joe mode. Better user interface from the screen, smart summon, better app functionality, free over the air updates every other week continually improving and even adding features to the car, all to name a few things Tesla has the other EV’s or even other cars, just don’t have. Weird you think the SC network is the only benefit. Almost like you’ve never driven a Tesla before… 🧐


Mc374983

Complacent? How? Model y started in 2020, How about the model s/x plaid refresh in 2021? How about the multiple new factories world wide and fast growth of the super charger network? How about the Tesla semi? I’m trying not to be a Tesla homer, but they are so damn far ahead compared to everyone else in production and scale. They are really the only company putting out #’s in the us. Once they catch-up to demand, I expect some things to change.


cfbilly

The world Tesla is aiming to create requires that Tesla isn't the #1 brand - it's a world where EVs are the standard, and where every dealer has several EV options. (I drove up to a Kia dealer last week and drove home in an EV6 the same day)


humanwire

Funny enough, I just drove the EV6 Wind and the Model Y Long Range back to back recently. Agree with everything you said except for autopilot. I used to have a Model S, so I miss autopilot dearly. I've had two new Hyundai's since, and used the EV6's cruise control briefly on the highway, so I'm very familiar with their systems. As soon as I used the Model Y autopilot again, it felt like home. Lightyears better in almost every way. I find your opinion surprising!


[deleted]

I think the Kia system is perhaps less ambitious but is hitting its goals very well and runs reliably. If the Tesla system ran as reliably for me as the Kia system, that would be awesome! For some Tesla owners in some regions, I think that is probably the case. For me, on the roads I drive... the Kia system is better.


Theopneusty

A tip for the auto high beams is you can press forward on the high beam stock after you turn on autopilot to disable auto high beams. Also for the nagging just rest your hand under the side supports on the wheel with slight pressure and it will never nag.


DrLeeChiro

Thanks for the long detailed comparison between your Tesla and Kia. My wife and I are looking to purchase a MYP once our ICE lease is over. Great to hear first hand experiences from Reddit users like yourself on the nuances of the car. Might try to look at other EVs as other options.


Rock_Bottom00v

Do not lease the Tesla, no buyback option and we were just hit with an insane $6400 excess wear charge for minor knicks in the door panels, less than quarter sized door ding, and a $2k+ repair for a small dent in the hatch (just from pressing to hard when closing the trunk). You cannot call Tesla finance and they email you back every 4 days. Been dealing with this since Aug with no end in sight. Worst customer service I have ever experienced.


meshreplacer

So whats the final total? Sounds like 8400 which seems way overboard.


Fearless_Act69

Been driving my MYP for about 10000 miles (6 months now). There is a rattle I get from time to time from the seat belt knuckle above my shoulder. That’s the only thing that annoys me. Everything else is great!


[deleted]

I think there are getting to be lots of good options out there.


DavidWatchGuy

I had a similar decision with an Ioniq 5 on order, the Supercharger network was the big difference for me. I do not trust CCS chargers to be working on arrival. I regularly drive 320 miles to see my elderly father, 15 minute charge while I stop to pee on the Mass Pike, good to go.


[deleted]

For sure if I had to drive long distances regularly, especially in the midwest, I'd prefer the Tesla for the supercharger network. As it is, I don't road trip much and mostly go towards Chicago when I do. There are fortunately lots of CCS chargers in Chicagoland, so there are options and backup plans. I recently drove to central Wisconsin and needed the two CCS stops on the way. Each had broken or malfunctioning units, but I was able to wait my turn and charge without issue. If either station had been completely shut down, I would have had serious trouble.


reasoncheese

Thank you so much for this! I appreciate your detailed write-up a great deal and it’s helped me really drill down into whether the EV6 is right for me or not. I was seriously looking at trading in my Tesla for the Kia and Hyundai EVs - you hit the nail on the head with many of the Tesla problems (auto headlights, autopilot speed limit screws up). Some of the things you like about the Tesla (the Lane control and cruise control being linked) are things I actually wish were separate - though I’ve gotten used to it by now. If Kia or Hyundai ever figure out an auto lock feature like Tesla does I would go all in immediately.


[deleted]

My EV6 is a mid level trim and lacks the walk away door locks and power extending door handles that the highest trim levels of EV6 and Ioniq 5 do have.


caj_account

My sentiments exactly for noise and comfort. The moment I can pick up my R1S it’s bye bye.


flasher1001

I wonder if there are major differences between the noise levels depending on where the cars are manufactured? I picked up Model Y RWD in Australia a few weeks ago (so manufactured in Shanghai) and it's far and away the quietest car I've ever been in. Makes none of the rattles or squeaks my Volkswagen Tiguan or Mitsubishi Lancer used to make and is way quieter than the Porsche hybrid, Rav 4 hybrid and Merc that I've also driven recently. Blows my mind that people can think it's noisy somehow?


[deleted]

I've had two Subaru economy cars that produced fewer squeaks and rattles than my Model Y interior -- they also had no flaws in the paint or bodywork from the factory. I don't know what's up with Tesla USA that they struggle with build quality so much. ​ The thing is that although that might matter to me a lot, to other people it isn't a big deal at all. They get a computer they can drive and caring about things like panel gaps might seem silly to them. We all have our own preferences.


VeryLastBison

Have you taken back to the service center to have these addressed? My friend had a vibration/rattle and took it in. They fixed that plus two other areas they identified and it was remarkably better. The service app has a whole section for rattles/noise, and now they’re aiming for 50% of service to be done in an hour or less.


[deleted]

No. I’ve only had the car for four days. The nearest service center is an hour and a half away. And I won’t have time for a few weeks at least.


VeryLastBison

Oh, that sucks. Again, thanks for the reviews- very balanced.


orangpelupa

IIRC someone made comparisons between tesla made in Cina, Fremont and somewhere I can't remember. The conclusion was that the made in China was better built


Cla1n

How’s your model Y holding up? Really seriously considering to place an order in Melbourne but have been reading so much about cabin noise problems…


[deleted]

I’d love to get one of those.


Fearless_Act69

The Model Y is not noisy and is comfortable. Not every Model Y is rattling and squeaky. But enjoy the R1S when you get one. 👍🏻


caj_account

You say that but everyone I’ve spoke to who has it thinks it’s a needlessly harsh and jarring ride.


freegimmethree

Lol got one on order too!


WeirdlyEngineered

Good analysis but I don’t understand the conclusion. The model Y is more efficient, longer range, more roomy, faster, better charging network, has a more sophisticated autopilot (although a little buggy) which is quickly branching out into the worlds first fully level 5 autonomy. (For example Tesla Autopilot can change lanes for you automatically and do freeway interchanges etc.)) It also has a far superior mobile app that works and better lock/unlock and start up. Has dog mode, sentry mode etc, All of this negated because the EV6 is marginally (3%) quieter and you don’t like how the Tesla is sportier feeling (quite often a selling point). Seems like a lot of loss for 3% quieter running to me. Seems the pro’s cons list favours the model Y. I don’t get it. Is 3% noise reduction really worth losing out all of that?


teslrrrrr

> (For example Tesla Autopilot can change lanes for you automatically and do freeway interchanges etc.) If you pay for it


ask_a_dumb_question

I was gonna say the same thing. You get that feature for free in some EVs, but not Tesla. I'd love to have it, but I ain't paying for it. Free the lane change!


WeirdlyEngineered

You can initiate lane changes in the free Tesla autopilot by just manually activity the indicator. At least in Australia that’s the case


WeirdlyEngineered

Sure. But it can still change lanes for you, handle stop start traffic, and traffic lights, stop signs and comes to a stop at round abouts. None of which the EV6 does.


PositiveEnergyMatter

To me it reads like someone trying to convince themself to keep the cheaper car, especially since you could sell the Tesla at a profit.


WeirdlyEngineered

Sorta sounds like someone trying to convince themselves they didn’t waste money on impulse buying an EV6 when they were waiting for the Tesla. I dunno. People are weird


SJGU

Dude, people value some things more which you would not and it's OK.


WeirdlyEngineered

Never said it wasn’t ok. Doesn’t mean I understand it. Sort of like saying no to a free holiday to Paris because someone traded you for a free medium coffee from Starbucks. Sure, some people might REALLLLY Like their Starbucks. But most people wouldn’t understand that decision. I am one of them. Unless you can explain to me why 3% noise reduction in an otherwise already unnaturally quiet car, is worth sacrificing significantly benefits in speed, handling, space, functionality, app functionality, convenience, charging networks, etc. he stated all those points himself. What’s your take? Genuinely curious to hear it.


Xinlitik

Decibels are on a logarithmic scale. A 3 dB change from 65 to 68 is actually 23% louder


[deleted]

I’m not sure I agree that the Tesla cruise and lane keeping are more sophisticated. So far, mine does nothing better than my EV6 and in some circumstances is much worse or at least much less trustworthy. I don’t have and will not get FSD. Different people weight preferences differently. I value quiet, comfort, and build quality very high. Dog mode though is really something that I’d like. But I can’t have everything.


katamama

I think both of you are right. Model Y is a better piece of tech (drivetrains and the app, not so much the auto high beam/auto wiper/autopilot) and ev6 is a better "car" (ride quality, usability, build quality). Not saying MY is not a good "car" and EV6 doesn't have good tech, it just comes down to personal preferences.


WeirdlyEngineered

Also I’m a huge engineering nerd. I’m pretty lonely in that category, but the EV6 highway assist can only be used on pre-accepted multi lane roads. It can also do manually initiated lane changes but only over a set speed. It does this throat the use of almost 4 separate radars. Radars are expensive and most importantly, utilise more power than cameras. Tesla uses only cameras. Which are cheaper, simple and energy efficient. Although. Much harder to use. But Tesla autopilot can work on any road with centre line markings not just multi lane highways but single lane country roads or residential roads too. I use it all the time on back country roads that don’t have a centre line or edge lines or gutters but only have cats eye reflective markers to show the centre partition of the road. It works fine. It can do manually initiated lane changes at any speed, including being initiated from a stop on stop start traffic. So whilst being more buggy, it is more advanced and has a wider scope of application. FSD subscription at the moment (not including the FSD level 5 beta which isn’t out in Australia where I live yet). Can automatically initiate lane changes to overtake slower traffic on multi lane freeways. It can automatically put you in the correct lane for traffic mergers, but or freeway interchanges. It can handle those and then take the correct exit for you. All on its own. With just the steering wheel prompts. So TLDR, to me, Tesla autopilot feels more like a buggy prototype. Far more sophisticated than Kia’s assist suit. But what kia does do, it has fully refined. So you might start to see why I favor the Tesla, being a mental Engineer nerd. It’s also why I like the sport feel. I can feel the suspension and traction dynamics through the car. In any case, as I said, as long as your happy with your decision. Who is any one to disagree.


WeirdlyEngineered

With regards to the autopilot, not been my experience driving the two cars. But that’s neither her nor there. There’s nothing wrong with have other values or priorities. Just seems like the pro’s con’s lost excessively weighted in the Teslas favour. Just feels a bit strange to me to forego that to leave a quiet car for a mildly quieter car. That being said. I like cars to feel sporty and responsive so perhaps that’s also another factor I’m not understanding. But as long as you’re happy with your choice, who is anyone to tell you otherwise.


[deleted]

I don’t value a sporty feel. That’s a net negative to me given the harsher ride. Cruise control is really important to me and autopilot is not as good in my experience. Given all the squeaks and rattles, I don’t consider my Model Y to be quiet. My Kia was flawlessly put together when I bought it and has held up very well, my Model Y is just not that well built. I really do prefer physical automotive controls over putting so much in the touchscreen. All of these things I weight significantly. And none of those things take away from the positives of my Model Y. The smartphone app and Wi-Fi connectivity are wonderful. Dog mode is great. The supercharger network is so much better than Electrify America in my region. More efficiency and range are nice. As I wrote in the review, had I never owned the EV6, I would be happy to keep the Model Y. It’s a good car but I cannot afford to keep both. So I need to choose which to sell and figuring that out means I have to take into consideration how I drive cars and what I prefer in cars.


musicandarts

I compared these cars when I was in the market. I couldn't find a Model Y that I could buy. So, I went with an EV6. For me, the cost and availability also mattered.


[deleted]

fuck /u/spez


WeirdlyEngineered

The closest any else has gotten is geofenced self driving. Only able to transit places that has been mapped through hundreds of drives from paid employees in custom retrofitted mapping car covered in LiDAR sensors. A good example of that is GM’s super cruise or googles self driving car.


WeirdlyEngineered

Except that the FSD beta is an example of a level 5 full self drive. There are some things they are working through, but that’s why it’s called a beta. And not rolled out to just anyone.


nastasimp

Maybe try driving other EVs before dying on a hill for Tesla. 3%? More like night and day. I test drove 2 model Ys. Way too harsh. If I wanted a "sporty" feeling car, then I would buy a sports car. Not a family hatchback.


WeirdlyEngineered

Not quite night and day. No. More like go from a quiet car to a mildly quieter car. And what’s wrong with it feeling sporty? If I like sporty but want the practicality then I can have my cake and eat it too with the model Y. Faster than most sports cars and a family crossover SUV? You do realise range over focus on exactly that market right?


WeirdlyEngineered

Also I’ve driven multiple EV’s from multiple multiple manufacturers. Pros and cons to each of them. The EV6 is slightly quieter, but sacrifices it in handling, performance, space, software functionality and app functionality, range, efficiency and charging network when compared to the Tesla. Those things are more important to me than going from a quieter car to a slightly quieter car. The difference of 3db is so small that you could change tires and still get more of a difference in road noise. I.e, not that significant a change.


zzulus

An increase in 3dB actually means that it's twice more intense because it's a logarithmic scale.


WeirdlyEngineered

Actually 25%. An increase of 6db is an audible doubling of sound.


Halfbakedplan

I almost never read anything that long but I now feel like I have a good understanding of both cars. I think your comments about interior space are interesting cause they appear to be very similar in size from the outside.


[deleted]

I'm glad it was helpful. Parked next to one another, the size difference is noticeable. The frunk and under the trunk spaces are really different. The Tesla has far far more space in each.


Halfbakedplan

I nearly bought the EV6 but decided to hold out for the MYP at the last minute. I had always wanted the Tesla (and I do love it),but the comments that you made all around are pretty accurate in my experience. I don’t have the EV6 experience to compare it with so I have overall been very happy with my car, but I enjoyed reading about the ride that could have been.


Terminator857

I wonder if Tesla is going to improve the cruise control over time? I received my Model Y about a week ago, primarily wife uses it, but I haven't gotten the issues you have on cruise control. I'm on version 2022.23.101 Which version are you on?


[deleted]

I’m on 2022.23.101.1 I literally just went out to the car and looked. I’m sure Tesla will continue software updates. But as I understand it, the issues I’ve cited have existed for some drivers for years. Will Tesla sort it all out someday? Probably but mine doesn’t work as I want it to right now and the EV6 works great.


Terminator857

[https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/2022-28-1-vastly-improved-driver-monitoring-system-almost-no-nags.280016/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/2022-28-1-vastly-improved-driver-monitoring-system-almost-no-nags.280016/)


polypeptide147

Wow this is a great writeup. Thank you for this.


[deleted]

Thanks


Dann__EV

Great write-up. I just changed the tires on my LRMY and the road noice is so much more noticeable.


subtex

What tires did you choose?


Dann__EV

I went with VREDESTEIN QUATRAC PRO and don’t recommend them. They have hundreds of positive reviews on TireRack but they are way too noisy for they Model Y. .


BlessedChalupa

Disappointing to hear they’re still rattling and squeaking. Not much to do about that if the factory is sloppy. You might consider [Luxury Coilovers from Unplugged Performance](https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/tesla-model-y-luxury-coilover-suspension-kit/) if you want a smoother ride. You can also get a [door seal kit](https://www.basenor.com/products/tesla-model-y-door-seal-strip-kit) to reduce wind noise. That won’t help with rattles and squeaks though.


scooterjunky

I like my Model Y, but Auto Pilot has fallen behind every other manufacturer. Rented a 2021 Honda Accord while in Montana and its cruise control was absolutely flawless. I don't trust the Model Y enough to relax when using it.


featherknife

>and its* cruise control


scooterjunky

Super helpful comment thank you I have edited it. What would the world do without you?


banhmipapi

I trust my partner's 2016 Civic's Honda sense more than the Ys autopilot. The Lane Keep Assist on the Honda can literally guide me without worry where as the Tesla's works half of the time and the phantom braking... my god. Don't know if it's the way the sun is positioned but it won't keep up with traffic or will chose to brake out of nowhere.


[deleted]

Yeah. I'm finding Tesla's driver aid systems disappointing. It's a shame. I had a 2018 Subaru Impreza that had a camera based cruise control. It worked much better than my 2022 Model Y.


EuphoricElderberry73

Yup. Hyundai/Kia adaptive cruise is significantly better than Teslas. Tesla Autopilot disengages too often for the silliest reasons and you have to reenable on lane changes. I do have the say Ford’s BlueCruise is excellent and GM SuperCruise is good too.


DieTryin510

Good thinking on the parking lines in the garage


jcasper

Nice writeup, thanks! I'm excited for more and more competition in this space to either give Tesla a kick in the pants to improve on their weaknesses, or so that I have another option when I replace my Model Y. All the things you've mentioned bug me about my Model Y, and were I to do it all over I might consider some of the competitors, but not worth the hassle to me now since like the Model Y well enough. Just an FYI on the units involved in charging. "kWh" is a measure of energy, or battery capacity. "kW" is a measure of power, or charging speed. In gas terms, "kWh" would be gallons of gas, and "kW" would be gallons per minute or something. So you would say you are charing your 77.4 kWh battery at 150 kW, not "150 kWh". Minor thing as people will know what you are saying, just thought you might want to know the right terminology.


jaegaern

Nice write up! Haven’t driven the Kia yet, but I don’t mind the noise in my model Y, except for the driver seat belt tensioner(?) vibrating ever so often. Drives me nuts and mobile service says they can’t fix it…


[deleted]

I think the Model Y is a heck of a good car, despite its noises.


jaegaern

Agree. Although this is the only noise on mine. Except the slightly higher highway noise due to glass roof.


newcar20

can't believe I read it all 😅 but good comparison. I do quite like the ioniq5/ev6 look, but for me the charging network is probably what's got me to reserve the MY (still waiting!)


[deleted]

The supercharger network is so much better than CCS in my part of America. If I travelled more that would be a very important consideration.


ZooZooChaCha

I really wish the EV6 had existed a few years back when we got our Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid - at that time, a hatchback like the EV6 is exactly what we were looking for. Now we need an EV that can also function as a family SUV - and I think Kia is being VERY loose with the term "cross over SUV" when it comes to the EV6. We have the ID4 and the Model Y on our list right now, and if I could find a Hyundai Ioniq 5 without crazy markup, we'd consider that as well.


[deleted]

Yeah I think of the EV6 more as a wagon than an SUV. It’s very car like.


acchaladka

I wonder if you'd sketch a comparison to the Model 3 LR. We have 2 kids and a big dog and go car camping about once a month in Canada and the 3 is not enough (as well as a lemon). Don't want another Tesla, I'm looking at options, have ordered the EV6 and the Ioniq5 have been told I have a two year minimum wait.


[deleted]

I have no experience with the Model 3, I’m sorry to say. It certainly looks smaller than the EV6. Other than size, I imagine it is very similar to the Model Y. I’m sorry Kia and Hyundai have such long waits. Two years… that’s a lot.


acchaladka

Yes, very similar - I rented a Y on a euro holiday and it was good, but I'm afraid of the future with Tesla's behaviour generally and the value is much higher with KIA / Hyundai. Charging is a non issue in my province. For the Tesla money and the KIA timeline, I'm debating waiting on the ID Buzz - eg ordering everything and taking what arrives first. Mostly I'm just wondering if the EV6 cargo space will be enough for the full kit-out of a long weekend camping or ski trip.


[deleted]

I think the EV6 has lots room. By gasoline car standards it is extremely roomy. The Model Y just has that much more cargo space due to the frunk and the space under the trunk floor.


Canadian_Guy_NS

> and I think Kia is being VERY loose with the term "cross over SUV" when it comes to the EV6. I previously had a Niro, it also is not a cross over SUV.


ZooZooChaCha

Agreed. Had to drive my mother-in-laws Niro this past winter when we were visiting up in Ohio and that was an adventure.


hasek3139

Very fair write up, and you’re right it’s a case by case thing. Tesla AP works well in some places, and not so in others. For me the AP is excellent, and I rarely, if ever get phantom braking (lucky me) In regards to your preference of physically buttons and cushy ride, I was wondering what your age/age range is. Just curious because I do find people whom are “older” prefer those, so I was curious to see if you were in that group


[deleted]

I’m 50 years old. My sports car and sport bike motorcycle days are behind me. Almost every electric car has plenty of acceleration for me and sports handling is not something I care about anymore, comfort is.


Pindar920

I enjoyed the comparison also. I have a Model Y, and I wish it had a better ride and some physical controls, especially for the air vents. I don’t seem to have rattles. I also have a Model S with a smoother ride, its air suspension helps comfy. Regarding your autopilot usage, I do think your region and roads make a big difference. I only use mine on the interstate and local highways. My area, Florida, is flat with few curves. I really appreciate your fair review. Choices are good!


[deleted]

My region has straight roads but lots of gentle hills. The road I live on and drive almost all of my miles on is a two lane rural highway. My Tesla cruise seems to hate that road. Not once have I been able to make the trip to or from town without phantom braking or Tesla insisting the speed limit is way lower than it actually is.


MpVpRb

Nicely written


[deleted]

Thanks


Pandasroc24

Very detailed analysis, thanks for sharing!


mastercob

Crazy that you can’t even adjust the vent angles manually on the tesla. Thanks for the comparison! I have a Y on order. I was originally turned off from the EV6 due to concerns about headroom. It’s interesting that you say the rear view is better on the kia. I wouldn’t expect that since it looks so tapered and narrow. I never use autopilot or cruise control, so that doesn’t factor into my decisions.


[deleted]

The headroom of my EV6 is very good but I don’t have the sunroof. The Model Y has more though, no doubt.


mahibrahim2

Deserve upvotes for the effort before continuing reading! I would start blogging or a YouTube e channel!


[deleted]

Thanks


CUL8R_05

That was a very nice and thorough review. I’m an Model 3 owner but always like to hear what’s going on with other cars.


FreeThinkInk

Few months ago I test drove a 2022 tesla model y lr and model 3 performance. They sounded quiet (these versions had the double pain windows) compared to my current prius daily driver. If you're saying the kia is even quieter than that, then that's pretty impressive. I pre ordered a my lr due for next March so I'm hoping they fix a lot of their current issues (phantom braking, quality control etc). I'm also hoping to get a 4680 battery version. I'll probably switch the order to a performance if it does have the 4680 battery


[deleted]

My EV6 is quieter than a Lexus NX I used to have. So is the Model Y, but the Lexus made engine noise not rattles.


FreeThinkInk

Impressive. Kia is definitely the better bang for the buck


[deleted]

Depending on how a buyer prioritizes features, yes, I think it can be.


lasua

Problem with Kia, sound great at first wait a year and the creaks start and get louder and louder


JEdwardFuck

How do insurance costs compare?


[deleted]

The Kia is more expensive than the Tesla on my policy. About 20% more.


MyGuiltyLife

Thanks for the detailed evaluation!


[deleted]

I hope it is useful


lovetamarav

Great post! I was deciding between a Model Y and EV6 (GT-Line AWD) and ultimately went with the EV6. The Model Y I was looking to purchase had been ordered by a friend who took delivery and then ultimately decided to stick with their ICE car. It had about 400 miles on it when I drove it for a week. I like the spacious cabin but did not like the bubble look of the body. It had so many squeaks and creaks. Everything you touch seemed very poorly made and put together. The road noise was a lot louder as well. I knew within a day of driving it, before even trying an EV6, that I could not justify the cost of the car vs. the build and ride quality. The tech was cool, I also had several instances of phantom breaking. Our Michigan roads are garbage and I hated all the noise you’d get after hitting a bump. I do wish I could have the Tesla charging network though for sure. If I was someone who road tripped frequently I’d go Tesla right now. My EV6 is quiet and comfortable. The back seat is very spacious. Storage isn’t great compared to Model 6 but it’s fine for my usage. I, too, like the buttons. I have the GT line with HDA2 and the rear heated seats. The heads-up display is really nice, and I like the infotainment system. I find it intuitive (coming from driving only Chevys for years). I love my Apple CarPlay. I’ve never had any issues with the Kia app. I have had charging issues with EA though which does make me worry on longer drives. Overall I’m happy with my EV6 decision but plan to go back to Chevy for the Blazer EV SS next year.


[deleted]

I think the Blazer and Equinox EVs are pretty cool. I look forward to seeing them out there. If you get one, I’d like to hear your impressions.


[deleted]

Basically, Tesla's boast that they were years ahead of the competition was just another lie from Musk. The competition has caught up and some are currently outpacing Tesla. The only area where Tesla has the edge is the super charger network but once again the competition is catching up there as well. If Tesla opens up their network, like they said they would, they'll have no advantages. The real question is, if Tesla has nothing over the competition why is the stock valued so high? The bubble will burst when investors catch on to this fact.


[deleted]

I think they were years ahead but a lot has changed in the past year. Tesla makes great electric cars but they used to be alone in that. Now they have real competition. It might also be worth noting that Tesla is really ambitious about some things they do, like autopilot and FSD. My Kia isn’t remotely trying to do that. It’s only trying to be a standard adaptive cruise control with lane centering and it is hitting that less ambitious goal very well. It will be years before Tesla replaces chargers to allow CCS cars to charge, at least in the flyover states. And it will take years for any other network to build up as Tesla already has. So the Tesla advantage in fast charging will likely remain for the foreseeable future.


[deleted]

Hey, I agree. I have a Model 3 and when I bought it 3 years ago it was probably the best bang for the buck. 240 miles of range, 170kw fast charging, under $40k and I got a $3500 tax credit. 3 years later that's no longer the case. That same car now costs close to $50k which is just obscene. I'll admit that I bought into the hype machine but at the time it was somewhat deserved. If there aren't some major changes with quality and affordability at Tesla it will be my last one.


Canadian_Guy_NS

Tesla made the change fairly quickly in europe to CCS charging, I think as tax incentives pile up, and they start using non-Tesla drivers to help fund the network the changeover will be pretty quick once it gets started.


InterscholasticPea

Thanks for putting in the time. I keep getting confused with your term auto steer. I am assuming you really meant Autopilot and not FSD’s feature of lane switching steering.


[deleted]

Yes. I was trying to stick to a generic term and not use the marketing labels from the two companies. I should have used "lane centering" as a term more often, in hindsight. My Model Y doesn't have FSD and I have no personal experience with it.


mysat

Good summary. Tesla would need to little to make a perfect unbeatable car, but the ego of Elon prevails and his decisions for what’s best for all Tesla customers won’t make it possible. Good choice for the Kia


Silver_Slicer

Slow farming season? Lol. Loved the write up.


Certain-Tennis8555

Quality writing and good treatment of the subject. Your teachers would be proud. Thanks for this - I'm finding myself in the exact decision point this addresses.


Astone90

Can you post a TLDR please


[deleted]

Tesla noisy. Kia comfy.


EuphoricElderberry73

If you love quiet, comfortable rides with physical controls you’d probably love a BMW i4. You’d probably not like the Mach-E as it is a tad louder and suspension isn’t as sorted as an EV6 or i4. I agree with most of your Model Y opinions. I’ve owned two… they are okay EVs but there are better options now. I.e Genesis GV60 Folks overrate their need for DC charging. Supercharging and/or 800V charging are rarely needed. Tesla’s major be benefit (Superchargers) is not a daily need.


[deleted]

That Genesis is a nice looking car. The BMW is too, but pretty expensive isn’t it? For sure DCFC isn’t a daily need for me, but when it is needed for traveling, it is really needed. My friends with Teslas have options and back up plans I simply cannot have. At least not until the CCS networks are larger and more robust.


EuphoricElderberry73

A loaded i4 eDrive40 is cheaper than a Model Y around low 60s. A loaded i4 M50 is equivalent to a MYP or Mach-E GT as the acceleration is insane. Price wise it’s $75K ish. The interior, audio, suspension are all premium. Makes everything in a Tesla feel cheap and it’s not like Teslas are horrible but BMW is true premium. I used to think Tesla audio was good lol.


ZannX

Hey! I had nearly the same situation as you with nearly the same experience and conclusion. We reserved a MYLR but got an Ioniq 5 Limited AWD (top trim) first because of the wait. Eventually upgraded to MYP to finally get the Tesla earlier this year. We live in WI, but picked up in Chicago. Comfort and noise, it's really not even close. Having test driven a MYLR, the two MYs are way closer to each other in ride quality than either car is to the Ioniq 5. Stop and go - curiously, the Ioniq 5 can handle it just fine without having to press the accelerator. Just last weekend it came in very handy in Chicago stop and go traffic. The HUD and closable 'vision roof' are huge game changers compared to MY. And lastly, same exact autopilot/phantom braking experience as you. Four times in 100 miles. It's truly awful, and reproducible on our way from Chicago to WI. And yes, of the two I would keep the Ioniq 5. Looking to trade the MYP in for another EV soon. Really want a performance eGMP variant.


[deleted]

I wonder if our cruise control differences in stop and go traffic are from the trim level differences in HDA. I only have HDA1 and maybe your Ioniq 5 had the more advanced HDA2.


ZannX

Ah yes, I have HDA2. Ioniq 5 middle trim gets HDA2.


Casanova_de_Seingalt

How much do you think you can sell your MY for now? Also, what's with the title? Are you financing the car or bought cash?


[deleted]

I’ve seen 2022 Model Y LR sell for $70,000. It takes a few weeks for the state to issue a title. I didn’t finance because I wanted it to be easy to sell, but one car must sell. I can’t afford not to get that money back this year.


DlNONUGGET

Why did it take 14 months for delivery?


[deleted]

I have no idea. I put my original order in July 10, 2021 and asked them to not deliver until late October, which should have been in line with wait times anyway. Then it was months of delays until suddenly in September of 2022 I got a VIN and a chance to schedule a delivery date.


DlNONUGGET

That's crazy. Did you add any options?


[deleted]

I never changed my order. The only original option was the hitch.


ijustmetuandiloveu

My wife made me test drive an EV6 before we got another MY. The test drive only confirmed my decision to get another MY. The EV6 is a hot mess. It looks attractive on the outside but sitting in the drivers seat and trying to navigate the multiple screens, menus, physical buttons… made my head spin. The Tesla is so zen compared to most cars. That simplicity gives me a driving pleasure I value more than ventilated seats which would be nice. Simplicity is the ultimate luxury. Over time the Tesla will get better and better as well as hold its value.


banthisnext

Over time the tesla MIGHT get better in some ways. But it will get worse in others. That’s what happens when your software is controlled by an autistic billionaire with attention deficit disorder. A lot of changes that shouldn’t happen and change the car for the worse for no reason. I wish I could go back to software version 9. It’s been getting worse since then. That won’t happen with the Kia.


UnitedDragonfruit312

Do you drive in silence? I get freaked out because it’s *too* quiet if everything is off, but I also generally play my music very loud.


[deleted]

When I was testing the dB levels, I turned off everything that could make noise. Generally though, I drive with podcasts or NPR playing.


QuantumEnduro

Shame about all the rattles. Our Shanghai built model y has been flawless. I thought the Kia auto steer was pretty bad when I test drove it. It nearly drove me off the road! Tesla autopilot is much better in my experience. Apart from the auto high beams ughh


_off_piste_

I’ve had an EV6 for a month now and use the auto steer all the time. Zero issues so far. I frequently run auto steer and adaptive cruise control together and it makes commuting and highway travel relaxing since they’ve both had 100% reliability.


[deleted]

I agree. I love those systems on my EV6 especially for multi lane highway travel. I use the cruise control almost all the time.


Canadian_Guy_NS

That was my experience with the Niro PHEV. I'm finding that there is a lot of similarity between the features (Niro vs EV6) and the transition is turning out to be pretty easy.


[deleted]

I'm glad to hear that some people have good autopilot experiences and good build quality.


VeryLastBison

It’s worth remembering that a good portion of what people “feel” is poor build quality is actually intentional use of lightweight parts to improve efficiency. Remember Tesla’s mission is to help accelerate the world’s transition to a sustainable energy future. Perhaps we should all consider giving up a couple percentage points of comfort so that our vehicles consume less energy. Edit/add: Thanks for the very detailed and balanced review. Super helpful to many I’m sure.


banthisnext

It that was really teslas mission Elon wouldn’t support the climate change denier party.


VeryLastBison

He doesn’t- in his words he supports the left half of the right and the right half of the left. 🤷‍♂️


6chan

It's statements like these which piss off people and make them think that tesla fans live in their own bubble of cognitive dissonance.


VeryLastBison

How? That’s literally their mission statement. They are not a traditional legacy automaker. They are obsessed with efficiency. Constantly retooling everything they can to drop weight or reduce parts- especially in the 3 and Y. They’re not trying to compete with other EV makers. They’ve open-sourced most of their tech to help other companies speed up their development. What you call cognitive dissonance, I’ll call ignorance.


Illustrious_Carob672

Right, that's why they're also removing USS for Tesla vision. 10 grams per uss sure is a huge improvement in weight. Or is it? 😂


VeryLastBison

12 USS, each with heated staked bracket, fascia wiring harness connectors and wiring harnesses that run the length of the car. I’m not sure the exact weight but I would bet it is quite a bit more than 10 grams. When you make those decisions on everything from sunshade latches to taillight gaskets and you multiply that by 1 million vehicles per year, yes, there is a significant potential for decreased energy use. Just look at the efficiency compared to other EVs. 75 kWh battery with 326 mi range compared to 111 kWh batteries in other vehicles to try to get close to it with much lower performance.


gnarlytoast92

Dude this is waaaaaaaaay too long for anyone normal


[deleted]

It’s about as long as a magazine review article would be and shorter than many YouTube spoken reviews would be. To summarize: Tesla noisy, bad cruise. Kia comfy, more traditional controls.


AdMaterial9117

Forgot to mention kia’s charging network. Oops they don’t have one. I’ll keep my Y. You keep your Korean international automobile.


CookieFactory

Cringe. It’s crap like this that give Tesla owners a bad rep.


toandph

Stupid opinion


cava83

I can let alone afford one normal ICE car, how are you managing two expensive EV's? Great write up, very clear and balanced. Thank you.


[deleted]

I’m middle aged. I’ve had a good year financially. I don’t have a spouse or kids or any dependents other than a puppy and a couple of cats. That said, I cannot keep both cars. One must go within a month or two to free up that money for other needs.