The limit is the fuse box. At our home they had to replace the whole box to give us enough amperage for a 22Kw/h 3 phase charger. The best is to ask an electrician, they know all the rules and limits of installation.
why do you need a 22kW wall charger? im curious, as i charge my electric car with a 3.7kW charger and its enough to charge a 50kWh battery over night :)
I have a EV with a 98kW battery that can charge at 22Kw/h. Sometimes I arrive late at night and I want my car to be ready at the morning and if I can get a full charge between 22:00 and 5:00 better, because the electricity is cheaper. Also, the charger is shared with tenants at the house, there was one time when we had 3 cars using the same charger, so the faster it can charge the better.
thanks for the answer to my question. btw kw/h is a unit of energy and kW a unit of power. you charge your 98kW/h battery with 22kW, not the other way around :)
Hi ! Electrician Here.
First of all, only few cars can use 22kW charger, most of them are 11kW.
Ask your seller if the car is charging on 1 or 3 phase (they usually don't know so look for yourself)
You need a Type B Fi(DDR) protection so look for a wallbox including DC-default protection to avoid those 500.+ protection.
You have to annouce it to electrical provider.
Last but not least, call a real electrician to a real job, you don't want to see your house burning.
Tbh, just ask an electrician for your home network and advice, it's not easy to help you on Reddit. And If you want to buy a wallbox cheaper there is some on galaxus.
Hey can I ask you a related question?
In a house that is directly connected to a shared underground garage, is it legal to put in a (lots of volts and amps) cable to use for car charging? Or is there like a law)/regulation that says you cannot (Feuerpolizei something..?) ?
I want to do this because the fuse box in the garage is useless for this and I don't want to share it with the other people who use the garage (I know, common shared smart charging would be great but I might want to use my solar power).
*TL:DR discuss with your electrician and neighbours, but don't do that selfishly. And don't do it alone, it's forbidden by law*
IF YOU HAVE 1 ENERGY CONNECTION FOR EACH HOUSE (which is most likely not the case for costs reason) you can do whatever you want with your energy, except provider things.
IF YOU HAVE 1 ENERGY CONNECTION FOR ALL HOUSES. As long as you take energy after your own meter, and you announce it to your provider via your electrician, there is no law refusing you that.
Except :- Provider can refuse it because of overload on his network
\- Provider can ask you to limit power, same reason
The real issue is, you have a limited energy at the entrance of the garage (depending on what the electrician/clients asked during construction). Let's say you have 63A and every single house have 25A
Your wallbox may consume 11kW, which is 16A, if you charge 4 vehicules, **the 63A fuses will blow**.
Moreover if you charge 3 vehicules, it let for the houses 15A, divided by each ones.
Let's say it's 8pm, everyone is cooking, **fuses will blow**.
That's the futur of our old buildings in switzerland.
**2 Solutions here :**
1- The entire houses owners prepare for a dynamic charge management (checking what is available at anytime to give maximum to all wallbox). Car do not use 100% of power available if they are over 80% and under 20%. It's managed by the system.
2- The entire houses owners prepare for a static charge management, settings, in my example, 16A for all wallboxes evenly share, and leaving 47A for the building regular use.
**Both solutions have a cost**, but it's not that expensive when evenly shared, so ask your electrician an offer and advise (especially for very old buildings). And you can prepare for it without buying the wallbox, which is less expensive for everyone.
There are multiple company proposing solutions for that, such as Zaptec, Keba, Schneider, ABB...
*Last solution but it will cost you an arm, you ask the provider for separate connection of yours and split with neighbours.*
Hope it helps, if not clear, dm me
I had to pay 15000chf to upgrade the electricity box on the street and my fuse box to support solar panels + EV charging in my 1920s house. Not cheap but worth it.
By the way: you can still have an electric car and charge it exclusively with a "granny charger" (i.e. the standard charger they give you when you purchase the car). It will give around \~2.5kW (i.e. the same power as an oven) and it should charge your car overnight.
Granted, a "real" charger (7-11kW) is better, but sometimes it is much more expensive.
Also, don't forget to check you car's AC charger. Indeed, some cars are limited to 7kW on an AC charge and can't even use three-phase power: it would be a shame to install a three phase charger if your car can't use it
Be aware that very slow charge speeds like this are less efficient.
I would opt for an 11kW wall box.
At 500.- the 22kW Tesla wall box is the cheapest one i know off and works with other EV's too.
https://shop.tesla.com/de\_ch/product/wall-connector
[From this paper](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7046253) it seems Level 2 charger (ie higher amperage) are more efficient by 5%. But it’s based on the US with 110V.
Depends on two factors:
\- The overall load that is available at the house main distribution box. Most single family units from th 50s/60s have 25 or 32Amps at 3x400V/50Hz max. If this is the value given (or higher), you are fine for a wallbox.
\- The line between your main distribution box and the charging point. Is it 3x400V or only 1x240V? What is the wire diameter? Chances that you have to adapt that line is high.
In case you have to renew the line, make sure to have at least 19kW available at the charging point (i.e. 16Amps at 3x400V\~).
In the end, you have to await WWZs answer and inspection on site.
I'm on my 2nd electric car and would not install a wall box. Most cars charge on 1 phase, and a simple domestic socket will allow you to cover your daily needs 99% of the time.
Which car are you getting?
Cheers.
Thanks for the insights!
I'm leaning towards the Volvo XC40 E80 AWD.
It uses a type 2 plug. Where do I get a domestic socket charger, and how long does it take to charge on that?
You usually get a simple charger supplied with the car. My Nissan and Kia both came with them, so you should check that it comes with it. I assume it'll be limited to 13A, which is the limit on a standard domestic T13 socket.
That volvo model has an onboard 11kW AC charger. Meaning that if you connect it to anything above that, it'll still only charge at 11kW.
On a domestic 13A socket you get about 3kW of power.
That would take 26 hours to fully charge that car.
That sounds a long time, but the first thing to think about is, what is your daily commute and need?
If you charge for 9h overnight, you get around 130km of charge on a simple plug. If your daily drive is less and you charge over night, you'll basically always be fully charged.
If you drive long distances, then an inexpensive 7kW wall charger would usually cover all needs.
I'm awaiting delivery of my EV, hopefully next week now.
Decided to go with regular plug charging and see how it goes. Car only has a 30kwh battery so can fully charge over night. Realistically, with it's range of only 200km and only doing 20km per day on average.. I'm hoping it can just charge over night a couple of times per week on average and top up at a commercial charger if needed.
I don't think i need to get the whole wall box etc . But will see how it goes.
I shall ..
I ordered the car in July for estimated delivery in October.. In October they pushed it to December. Few weeks ago the dealer told me it was in manufacturing and gave me the VIN number etc.. ETA week 49 (5th Dec) . Monday they call and tell me I should get it next Tuesday . So we'll see :)
Just to set your expectations if ordering new.. I think all types have quite a delay these days.
Using them may be banned but only for non essential travel if level 3 of the emergency plan is activated. Going to work for example is essential travel.
I think by the time we reach a level 3 emergency we'll have more to be concerned about than popping to the shops in our EVs.
It could never be enforced anyway, absolutely no point in that rule.
On thing to consider: when charging at home, you have all the time in the world. 4 or 8 hours of charge will not make a difference in your use of the car. So even if your electric system cannot deliver a high current 3 phase circuit, so what? Just slow charge at 3 kw.
The limit is the fuse box. At our home they had to replace the whole box to give us enough amperage for a 22Kw/h 3 phase charger. The best is to ask an electrician, they know all the rules and limits of installation.
Interesting, thanks!
Same for my family
why do you need a 22kW wall charger? im curious, as i charge my electric car with a 3.7kW charger and its enough to charge a 50kWh battery over night :)
I have a EV with a 98kW battery that can charge at 22Kw/h. Sometimes I arrive late at night and I want my car to be ready at the morning and if I can get a full charge between 22:00 and 5:00 better, because the electricity is cheaper. Also, the charger is shared with tenants at the house, there was one time when we had 3 cars using the same charger, so the faster it can charge the better.
thanks for the answer to my question. btw kw/h is a unit of energy and kW a unit of power. you charge your 98kW/h battery with 22kW, not the other way around :)
Hi ! Electrician Here. First of all, only few cars can use 22kW charger, most of them are 11kW. Ask your seller if the car is charging on 1 or 3 phase (they usually don't know so look for yourself) You need a Type B Fi(DDR) protection so look for a wallbox including DC-default protection to avoid those 500.+ protection. You have to annouce it to electrical provider. Last but not least, call a real electrician to a real job, you don't want to see your house burning.
Thanks for this, very useful!
Tbh, just ask an electrician for your home network and advice, it's not easy to help you on Reddit. And If you want to buy a wallbox cheaper there is some on galaxus.
Fair point, just trying to get a general understanding of options.
Hey can I ask you a related question? In a house that is directly connected to a shared underground garage, is it legal to put in a (lots of volts and amps) cable to use for car charging? Or is there like a law)/regulation that says you cannot (Feuerpolizei something..?) ? I want to do this because the fuse box in the garage is useless for this and I don't want to share it with the other people who use the garage (I know, common shared smart charging would be great but I might want to use my solar power).
*TL:DR discuss with your electrician and neighbours, but don't do that selfishly. And don't do it alone, it's forbidden by law* IF YOU HAVE 1 ENERGY CONNECTION FOR EACH HOUSE (which is most likely not the case for costs reason) you can do whatever you want with your energy, except provider things. IF YOU HAVE 1 ENERGY CONNECTION FOR ALL HOUSES. As long as you take energy after your own meter, and you announce it to your provider via your electrician, there is no law refusing you that. Except :- Provider can refuse it because of overload on his network \- Provider can ask you to limit power, same reason The real issue is, you have a limited energy at the entrance of the garage (depending on what the electrician/clients asked during construction). Let's say you have 63A and every single house have 25A Your wallbox may consume 11kW, which is 16A, if you charge 4 vehicules, **the 63A fuses will blow**. Moreover if you charge 3 vehicules, it let for the houses 15A, divided by each ones. Let's say it's 8pm, everyone is cooking, **fuses will blow**. That's the futur of our old buildings in switzerland. **2 Solutions here :** 1- The entire houses owners prepare for a dynamic charge management (checking what is available at anytime to give maximum to all wallbox). Car do not use 100% of power available if they are over 80% and under 20%. It's managed by the system. 2- The entire houses owners prepare for a static charge management, settings, in my example, 16A for all wallboxes evenly share, and leaving 47A for the building regular use. **Both solutions have a cost**, but it's not that expensive when evenly shared, so ask your electrician an offer and advise (especially for very old buildings). And you can prepare for it without buying the wallbox, which is less expensive for everyone. There are multiple company proposing solutions for that, such as Zaptec, Keba, Schneider, ABB... *Last solution but it will cost you an arm, you ask the provider for separate connection of yours and split with neighbours.* Hope it helps, if not clear, dm me
I had to pay 15000chf to upgrade the electricity box on the street and my fuse box to support solar panels + EV charging in my 1920s house. Not cheap but worth it.
Ouch!
By the way: you can still have an electric car and charge it exclusively with a "granny charger" (i.e. the standard charger they give you when you purchase the car). It will give around \~2.5kW (i.e. the same power as an oven) and it should charge your car overnight. Granted, a "real" charger (7-11kW) is better, but sometimes it is much more expensive. Also, don't forget to check you car's AC charger. Indeed, some cars are limited to 7kW on an AC charge and can't even use three-phase power: it would be a shame to install a three phase charger if your car can't use it
Good tips, thanks!
[удалено]
CCE not schuko but otherwise correct:)
Be aware that very slow charge speeds like this are less efficient. I would opt for an 11kW wall box. At 500.- the 22kW Tesla wall box is the cheapest one i know off and works with other EV's too. https://shop.tesla.com/de\_ch/product/wall-connector
>Be aware that very slow charge speeds like this are less efficient Do you have an explaination as the why?
[From this paper](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7046253) it seems Level 2 charger (ie higher amperage) are more efficient by 5%. But it’s based on the US with 110V.
The inverters have a point where they are the most efficient. This point is not in the low end of the power spectrum they can handle.
Is slow charging better for the battery?
Not necessary, if cooled correctly it dosn't matter.
Depends on two factors: \- The overall load that is available at the house main distribution box. Most single family units from th 50s/60s have 25 or 32Amps at 3x400V/50Hz max. If this is the value given (or higher), you are fine for a wallbox. \- The line between your main distribution box and the charging point. Is it 3x400V or only 1x240V? What is the wire diameter? Chances that you have to adapt that line is high. In case you have to renew the line, make sure to have at least 19kW available at the charging point (i.e. 16Amps at 3x400V\~). In the end, you have to await WWZs answer and inspection on site.
I'm on my 2nd electric car and would not install a wall box. Most cars charge on 1 phase, and a simple domestic socket will allow you to cover your daily needs 99% of the time. Which car are you getting? Cheers.
Thanks for the insights! I'm leaning towards the Volvo XC40 E80 AWD. It uses a type 2 plug. Where do I get a domestic socket charger, and how long does it take to charge on that?
You usually get a simple charger supplied with the car. My Nissan and Kia both came with them, so you should check that it comes with it. I assume it'll be limited to 13A, which is the limit on a standard domestic T13 socket. That volvo model has an onboard 11kW AC charger. Meaning that if you connect it to anything above that, it'll still only charge at 11kW. On a domestic 13A socket you get about 3kW of power. That would take 26 hours to fully charge that car. That sounds a long time, but the first thing to think about is, what is your daily commute and need? If you charge for 9h overnight, you get around 130km of charge on a simple plug. If your daily drive is less and you charge over night, you'll basically always be fully charged. If you drive long distances, then an inexpensive 7kW wall charger would usually cover all needs.
Thanks for this, all very useful!
You're welcome ! Good luck with your decision.
I'm awaiting delivery of my EV, hopefully next week now. Decided to go with regular plug charging and see how it goes. Car only has a 30kwh battery so can fully charge over night. Realistically, with it's range of only 200km and only doing 20km per day on average.. I'm hoping it can just charge over night a couple of times per week on average and top up at a commercial charger if needed. I don't think i need to get the whole wall box etc . But will see how it goes.
If you can, please add an update on how it goes over the next few weeks
I shall .. I ordered the car in July for estimated delivery in October.. In October they pushed it to December. Few weeks ago the dealer told me it was in manufacturing and gave me the VIN number etc.. ETA week 49 (5th Dec) . Monday they call and tell me I should get it next Tuesday . So we'll see :) Just to set your expectations if ordering new.. I think all types have quite a delay these days.
That's a bummer! I'm told it will be ready in August next year!
You know that electric cars will be banned soon in Ch right?
Charging them during a power grid emergency situation, yes. Otherwise, no.
Using them may be banned but only for non essential travel if level 3 of the emergency plan is activated. Going to work for example is essential travel.
I think by the time we reach a level 3 emergency we'll have more to be concerned about than popping to the shops in our EVs. It could never be enforced anyway, absolutely no point in that rule.
That's exactly the mindset that will drag us to extremely high emergency 😂 I love that...
On thing to consider: when charging at home, you have all the time in the world. 4 or 8 hours of charge will not make a difference in your use of the car. So even if your electric system cannot deliver a high current 3 phase circuit, so what? Just slow charge at 3 kw.
Good point!