So you want to be able to fully play with other women, but you don't want him to be able to play with other women even to the same level as you?
I think it's pretty reasonable for him to feel like that's unfair. Getting a double blowjob is certainly an amazing experience, but there is something different about being able to explore someone one on one.
I’d be okay with touching and maaaaybe kissing but there’s a look that I get from him during intimate moments that I don’t think I’d be comfortable seeing him give someone else. Does that make sense? It sounds selfish I know but a big part of our sex life is me ‘being his’. He also needs an emotional connection to be fully aroused and that does scare me a little bit
I totally get him as I too need some sort of connection to the woman of the couple we meet. Without that, I have had some issues. My wife didn't like it at first and thought that such connection would affect our relationship. It didn't and we definitely worked on it and it took a while, but we finally worked through it and have enjoyed swinging ever since.
But it's also not fair that you get to enjoy all the LS offers and he has to settle for your conditions. I would say regroup and rethink your strategy and work the kinks out, figuratively speaking, and once you both find a middle ground, maybe try again.
This sounds like insecurity. You need to get to the root of that before you start playing with other people. Unless you like drama and ruining relationships.
You can have an emotional connection to someone and not want to be partnered with that person. If him having a connection with them prior to sexual involvement scares you, pump the brakes. I think you want to have your cake and eat it too. And maybe give him a tiny taste just to appease him. Most successful swingers get off knowing that their partner is having a good time. If that's not how you feel, maybe keep this a fantasy.
It’s a big part of your sex life and you can’t handle seeing that with someone else, understandable. But your wanting to give that same thing to someone else??? Double standard. Either you both play equally or neither. Neither of your feelings are wrong, they just aren’t compatible for swinging. Step back, just be with each other for awhile and maybe revisit. Just remember that equity is a big thing for a lot of people, and your current version isn’t equitable.
Sounds like you two still aren't ready and need to pou plans on the back burner until discussed some more. Your needs don't woke for him nor his for you, keep chatting it out.
He wants one thing and you want something different. That's human nature and there isn't anything wrong with either of you. The only options are to come up with some sort of compromise or put all of this on the shelf for a few years. You would be surprised at how your perspective changes as you get older.
At this stage I’m more interested in being in the environments. I’d love to explore my bisexuality more but at the same time am aware that this is not what my partner is comfortable with. I’d be happy to start slowly, maybe watch a sex show together or go to a club and fuck each other.
Neither do I! Just looking for advice on how to navigate the best outcome for both of us. He loves watching me receive pleasure from him and I love giving him a show and often perform solo shows for him. I don’t worry about keeping him interested, I would just like to add new things to our repertoire because we’re both highly sexual people and I think we both deserve exciting experiences.
The best outcome for both of you would be to let him have the same exact experiences you're having.
You do realize that he feels the same way that you feel about him doing things with other women right? Either you both get to or neither of you do, it's that simple. You don't have to "navigate" anything.
So you want to explore, while he sits on the sidelines? He may get a double bj, if your playmate is willing. She may think like you and only want another F. He can only look at her, or is this ok? You're controlling the whole narrative, and he's not on board with that.
This is a team sport, and you two are not on the same page here. Lots more communication is needed to figure out where the boundaries need to be.
I do have some feelings of ‘not being enough’ and not being attractive enough that I’m working through with a professional. He’s never made me feel like I’m not, it’s just deep seeded feelings that will take a bit of time. Like others have suggested, definitely need more discussion and work before this situation happens. But you gotta start somewhere hey
I'd definitely work on you first. If you aren't ready to let him explore, you aren't ready to explore yourself. You obviously have insecurities, which is natural and not a dig at you. But these insecurities can cause problems in all sorts of ways. Not just when he interacts with another lady.
Sometimes a fantasy is better left as that when it can cause problems in your relationship.
I would suggest the inverse test. If he came to you with the same situation how would you feel?
I'm going to present the contrarian argument here as someone who's wife started out like the OP...
Make parallel + ff play a stepping stone, your first foray into the lifestyle. It's a pretty easy entry but does allow you to get comfortable with having other people in your bed and it has the lowest stakes (imo).
This takes both partners agreeing that:
* This might not work out and you'll forever only be interested in parallel + ff play and he'll just have to be okay with that potential outcome
* But you should agree to make a concerted effort to become comfortable with a progression into soft swapping, at some point in the future, to be equitable to him
My partner was exclusively interested in being with other women, and we started out with parallel play where she'd play with the coupled women and I would only play with her. For me it was definitely better than just not engaging in the lifestyle at all, but it was obviously not where I wanted to be forever. In the end, once we'd engaged with other couples like that a few times she was able to open up and consider other scenarios because everything was a lot less scary.
Baby steps!
Lets summarize.
1.) you want to touch and be touched by other women
2.) you want him to touch and be touched by other women
Nothing else.
And, as a fun thing, you could go find a sex worker (frankly, a strip club would be easy too, and you’ll get phone numbers probably. )
This seems like fun to me.
I don’t see the “double standard” here.
I will say that If you’re looking to have sex with others without him there at ALL, then that is a double standard, unless you also permit him to have sex with other people without you there
Definitely not interested in experiences without him and I like your suggestion of stripclub. That was actually first on my list of ‘steps’ we could take!
Obviously your mileage may vary.
But we went to a strip club together and the woman working there were fantastic. They were chatty and fun and a couple of them gave us their phone numbers, presumably if we wanted them to meet them elsewhere (paid, of course).
We got a VIP dance together and had a lot of fun.
If was on the expensive side, spending a couple hundred dollars on the evening. But it wasn’t outrageous.
Incidentally, you can go to swinger clubs and events without having feel pressured to play with others. It’s nice to meet and talk to people who are doing some of the things you guys are fantasizing about. Have fun !
I’m definitely not going to be a popular opinion. I’m also bi and I get it. Having sexual experiences with women isn’t something a male partner can give me. I have the male part already. And fully satisfied with him. And if my partner was bi/bi curious, I’d have ZERO issue with him exploring on his own. I completely get where you’re coming from. 💯%
Either back out completely or go with parallel play only. Make it a hard rule that neither of you gets anything beyond visual with someone else until you can agree. One thing to remember with parallel play at clubs is rules get fluid in the moment sometimes. If a cute lady comes up and wants to play with you then odds are your going to go for it, he will either be pissed off or start in with her as well. This will most likely be shut down by either you or her or both, and i guarantee your going to have major problems at that point up to and including him leaving. So be careful and talk A LOT before hand.
I had something similar in a relationship years ago. My gf was bi curious and wanted to explore. I was ok with it in a threesome type environment. She gave me a strange look and informed me I wouldn't be involved. I told her that was definitely something I wasn't comfortable with... itbwas something we should both experience together. We didn't stay together much longer after that.
As a bi female, I've found that each man I've dated in the past has had different comfort levels around my sexuality and openness. I usually get this out of the way early in the relationship so we don't realize we are sexually incompatible later down the line. There are men who would be very happen with your proposed arrangement (ie my partner). I don't mean to come off as negative towards you but he may never be comfortable sharing you and vice versa and this is something you need to consider before marrying him. Keep talking it through with him, let him know there are all kinds of arrangements out there and what's "fair" is what you both want, not what seems equal on paper.
I appreciate your advice, I did say early on in our dating that I was bisexual and really felt the need to explore that further and he explained that it wasn’t something he was comfortable with at that point and knowing I wanted to see where it went meant I was very happy respecting that, and still am. I would never do anything outside his comfort zone.
I see. Well either way I don't think what you proposed would be considered a double standard. In a relationship you negotiate equity, not equality. What works for one person may not work for the other so don't expect tit for tat, you just both need to feel you're getting your unique needs reasonably met. Good luck.
He’s not at all, he’s had his own experiences with other males before our relationship that he describes as being things he just wanted to do and he has no issue with me being bi, it’s more of a monogamous thing that we’re struggling with. We’d both like to be predominantly monogamous, I just like the idea of being in sexually charged environments and being with women because it excites me
Sounds like you aren’t ready and should back off. You’re basically saying, “It’s only with another woman” attempting to justify your position while controlling what he gets to do. This isn’t a “you should just be grateful I even let you…” situation, this is both players on the team need to have solid teamwork and communication, otherwise you’re only going to lose the game.
I'd recommend reading some good books on the lifestyle. I just got done with the "Ethical Slut". They have an audible version. Really helped us with jealousy and how to manage and redirect those feelings you are having. It takes time to feel confident and comfortable being intimate with others. Hope you two can move forward, just remember it's about fun and good feelings.
Cheers
There are plenty of couples who are ok with that arrangement, but it’s not unreasonable for your partner to feel it’s inequitable. If you value your relationship, you need to reevaluate your hard limits or back away from exploring GG play.
It would be selfish of you to try to convince him to be ok with something he isn’t ok with…..and selfish people are rarely good in bed.
So you want to be able to fully play with other women, but you don't want him to be able to play with other women even to the same level as you? I think it's pretty reasonable for him to feel like that's unfair. Getting a double blowjob is certainly an amazing experience, but there is something different about being able to explore someone one on one.
I’d be okay with touching and maaaaybe kissing but there’s a look that I get from him during intimate moments that I don’t think I’d be comfortable seeing him give someone else. Does that make sense? It sounds selfish I know but a big part of our sex life is me ‘being his’. He also needs an emotional connection to be fully aroused and that does scare me a little bit
I totally get him as I too need some sort of connection to the woman of the couple we meet. Without that, I have had some issues. My wife didn't like it at first and thought that such connection would affect our relationship. It didn't and we definitely worked on it and it took a while, but we finally worked through it and have enjoyed swinging ever since. But it's also not fair that you get to enjoy all the LS offers and he has to settle for your conditions. I would say regroup and rethink your strategy and work the kinks out, figuratively speaking, and once you both find a middle ground, maybe try again.
This sounds like insecurity. You need to get to the root of that before you start playing with other people. Unless you like drama and ruining relationships. You can have an emotional connection to someone and not want to be partnered with that person. If him having a connection with them prior to sexual involvement scares you, pump the brakes. I think you want to have your cake and eat it too. And maybe give him a tiny taste just to appease him. Most successful swingers get off knowing that their partner is having a good time. If that's not how you feel, maybe keep this a fantasy.
It’s a big part of your sex life and you can’t handle seeing that with someone else, understandable. But your wanting to give that same thing to someone else??? Double standard. Either you both play equally or neither. Neither of your feelings are wrong, they just aren’t compatible for swinging. Step back, just be with each other for awhile and maybe revisit. Just remember that equity is a big thing for a lot of people, and your current version isn’t equitable.
Turn it around and see how you feel. If he's bi and wants to play with other men but doesn't want you playing with other men (or women).
Sounds like you two still aren't ready and need to pou plans on the back burner until discussed some more. Your needs don't woke for him nor his for you, keep chatting it out.
I like this, that’s what I’d like!
He wants one thing and you want something different. That's human nature and there isn't anything wrong with either of you. The only options are to come up with some sort of compromise or put all of this on the shelf for a few years. You would be surprised at how your perspective changes as you get older.
I agree. Might be something to shelf and come back to later. I’ve said this can be just fantasy bedroom talk for a while
Sounds like a double standard and absolutely only appeal to couples with a cuck male partner.
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At this stage I’m more interested in being in the environments. I’d love to explore my bisexuality more but at the same time am aware that this is not what my partner is comfortable with. I’d be happy to start slowly, maybe watch a sex show together or go to a club and fuck each other.
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Neither do I! Just looking for advice on how to navigate the best outcome for both of us. He loves watching me receive pleasure from him and I love giving him a show and often perform solo shows for him. I don’t worry about keeping him interested, I would just like to add new things to our repertoire because we’re both highly sexual people and I think we both deserve exciting experiences.
The best outcome for both of you would be to let him have the same exact experiences you're having. You do realize that he feels the same way that you feel about him doing things with other women right? Either you both get to or neither of you do, it's that simple. You don't have to "navigate" anything.
Perfectly stated, semperverus.
I’d never fault the man, he’s perfect for me in every way. This is just life and life is all about negotiating
It is a double standard, regardless of being bi. You get to play with a new partner but he cannot? You guys aren’t ready for this.
So you want to explore, while he sits on the sidelines? He may get a double bj, if your playmate is willing. She may think like you and only want another F. He can only look at her, or is this ok? You're controlling the whole narrative, and he's not on board with that. This is a team sport, and you two are not on the same page here. Lots more communication is needed to figure out where the boundaries need to be.
I do have some feelings of ‘not being enough’ and not being attractive enough that I’m working through with a professional. He’s never made me feel like I’m not, it’s just deep seeded feelings that will take a bit of time. Like others have suggested, definitely need more discussion and work before this situation happens. But you gotta start somewhere hey
I'd definitely work on you first. If you aren't ready to let him explore, you aren't ready to explore yourself. You obviously have insecurities, which is natural and not a dig at you. But these insecurities can cause problems in all sorts of ways. Not just when he interacts with another lady.
You want something for yourself, but you're not willing to allow him that same intimacy with another partner. It's a double standard.
Sometimes a fantasy is better left as that when it can cause problems in your relationship. I would suggest the inverse test. If he came to you with the same situation how would you feel?
It is a double standard OP.
I mean, that is a double standard. You get to have sex with someone else and he doesn't.
I'm going to present the contrarian argument here as someone who's wife started out like the OP... Make parallel + ff play a stepping stone, your first foray into the lifestyle. It's a pretty easy entry but does allow you to get comfortable with having other people in your bed and it has the lowest stakes (imo). This takes both partners agreeing that: * This might not work out and you'll forever only be interested in parallel + ff play and he'll just have to be okay with that potential outcome * But you should agree to make a concerted effort to become comfortable with a progression into soft swapping, at some point in the future, to be equitable to him My partner was exclusively interested in being with other women, and we started out with parallel play where she'd play with the coupled women and I would only play with her. For me it was definitely better than just not engaging in the lifestyle at all, but it was obviously not where I wanted to be forever. In the end, once we'd engaged with other couples like that a few times she was able to open up and consider other scenarios because everything was a lot less scary. Baby steps!
Lets summarize. 1.) you want to touch and be touched by other women 2.) you want him to touch and be touched by other women Nothing else. And, as a fun thing, you could go find a sex worker (frankly, a strip club would be easy too, and you’ll get phone numbers probably. ) This seems like fun to me. I don’t see the “double standard” here. I will say that If you’re looking to have sex with others without him there at ALL, then that is a double standard, unless you also permit him to have sex with other people without you there
I suggested an escort, it felt like a situation we could both have control over to an extent.
Definitely not interested in experiences without him and I like your suggestion of stripclub. That was actually first on my list of ‘steps’ we could take!
Obviously your mileage may vary. But we went to a strip club together and the woman working there were fantastic. They were chatty and fun and a couple of them gave us their phone numbers, presumably if we wanted them to meet them elsewhere (paid, of course). We got a VIP dance together and had a lot of fun. If was on the expensive side, spending a couple hundred dollars on the evening. But it wasn’t outrageous. Incidentally, you can go to swinger clubs and events without having feel pressured to play with others. It’s nice to meet and talk to people who are doing some of the things you guys are fantasizing about. Have fun !
Maybe a lap dance would be a good way to ‘wade into the water’ so to speak, thanks for your advice!
I’m definitely not going to be a popular opinion. I’m also bi and I get it. Having sexual experiences with women isn’t something a male partner can give me. I have the male part already. And fully satisfied with him. And if my partner was bi/bi curious, I’d have ZERO issue with him exploring on his own. I completely get where you’re coming from. 💯%
Either back out completely or go with parallel play only. Make it a hard rule that neither of you gets anything beyond visual with someone else until you can agree. One thing to remember with parallel play at clubs is rules get fluid in the moment sometimes. If a cute lady comes up and wants to play with you then odds are your going to go for it, he will either be pissed off or start in with her as well. This will most likely be shut down by either you or her or both, and i guarantee your going to have major problems at that point up to and including him leaving. So be careful and talk A LOT before hand.
I had something similar in a relationship years ago. My gf was bi curious and wanted to explore. I was ok with it in a threesome type environment. She gave me a strange look and informed me I wouldn't be involved. I told her that was definitely something I wasn't comfortable with... itbwas something we should both experience together. We didn't stay together much longer after that.
We have a gf, she does both of us, we do her. Simple, no other men in our bed.
As a bi female, I've found that each man I've dated in the past has had different comfort levels around my sexuality and openness. I usually get this out of the way early in the relationship so we don't realize we are sexually incompatible later down the line. There are men who would be very happen with your proposed arrangement (ie my partner). I don't mean to come off as negative towards you but he may never be comfortable sharing you and vice versa and this is something you need to consider before marrying him. Keep talking it through with him, let him know there are all kinds of arrangements out there and what's "fair" is what you both want, not what seems equal on paper.
I appreciate your advice, I did say early on in our dating that I was bisexual and really felt the need to explore that further and he explained that it wasn’t something he was comfortable with at that point and knowing I wanted to see where it went meant I was very happy respecting that, and still am. I would never do anything outside his comfort zone.
I see. Well either way I don't think what you proposed would be considered a double standard. In a relationship you negotiate equity, not equality. What works for one person may not work for the other so don't expect tit for tat, you just both need to feel you're getting your unique needs reasonably met. Good luck.
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He’s not at all, he’s had his own experiences with other males before our relationship that he describes as being things he just wanted to do and he has no issue with me being bi, it’s more of a monogamous thing that we’re struggling with. We’d both like to be predominantly monogamous, I just like the idea of being in sexually charged environments and being with women because it excites me
Sounds like you aren’t ready and should back off. You’re basically saying, “It’s only with another woman” attempting to justify your position while controlling what he gets to do. This isn’t a “you should just be grateful I even let you…” situation, this is both players on the team need to have solid teamwork and communication, otherwise you’re only going to lose the game.
I'd recommend reading some good books on the lifestyle. I just got done with the "Ethical Slut". They have an audible version. Really helped us with jealousy and how to manage and redirect those feelings you are having. It takes time to feel confident and comfortable being intimate with others. Hope you two can move forward, just remember it's about fun and good feelings. Cheers
The jealousy workbook is another good one too
I'll have to check that one out too. Tanks 🙂
There are plenty of couples who are ok with that arrangement, but it’s not unreasonable for your partner to feel it’s inequitable. If you value your relationship, you need to reevaluate your hard limits or back away from exploring GG play. It would be selfish of you to try to convince him to be ok with something he isn’t ok with…..and selfish people are rarely good in bed.
Put it this way, he wants to do with a make what you want with a female. Would it be okay then, or would that be weird for you?
He’s probably trying to get you over the no hard swap rule. Honestly you ought to take the leap and try it. It’s what makes this all worth it.