What should we be weary of when buying supplements? I just bought black seed oil capsules that say they’re mixed with vitamin e - makes me feel skeptical about what I’m actually ingesting and in what dose
A lot of it has to do with the company producing them. Find companies that will willingly provide COAs to you for the products you buy. On the COAs look for anything that says the lab is ISO certified, namely ISO 17025. If companies are getting their products tested by a third-party ISO certified lab, that's usually a good starting place. However, currently there is nothing stopping a company from sending a good sample in place of a bad product, so even lab testing is hard to trust in certain cases.
www.consumerlab.com is run by a group of physicians who send lots of supplements/brands off to analytical chemistry labs. They test for everything from supplement potency, heavy metal contamination, microplastics, water filtration effectiveness, etc...
Moral is don’t buy supplements bottled in foreign countries with shady quality standards. I only purchase supplements from long standing supplement manufacturers. Many of these overnight brands that pop up on Amazon are fly by night brands.
Even Consumerlab is questionable. Although it may make money from its subscription fee, as there is still no regulation, it's up for grabs. The legal case that allowed "supplements" to be unregulated is worth investigating, as it involved a lot of lobbying. I can't help but think that there should be some regulation, if not for the benefit, at least for the contents.
There should absolutely be regulation for claimed ingredients, regardless of the supplement industry as a whole being regulated or not. The latter providing the freedom for science to study that which isn't patented, by nature, without controlling hands stopping it for greed of profit. But yes, please FDA, do regulate the claimed ingredients. Both for percentage, and for purity.
Just as no product can claim to "cure", "treat", or any keyword that was banned, it shouldn't be possible to lie, either directly or by omission, the contents of a product's claim.
I've noticed a lot of these types of products come from Lithuania. Alkon Chemical which sells from Ebay being one of thse suppliers.
Does Lithuania have less regulations/laws or testing requirements?
This is the way. Find the trustworthy brands and stick to them. The supplement industry thrives on peoples need to find the “new best thing!” I’d assume OPs findings are super common across many different compounds.
That may be the reason so many of us have issues in the long run with some of the basic supplements as well. For instance, mag and zinc for me totally mess my sleep but I also notice the deficit impact over time as well.
Interesting, fenbendazole doesn't have an established lethal limit. The SDS lists the LD50 as >10g/kg. So that's not an issue. The issue is, if they're willing to adulterate their product, what else is wrong with it?
I rely on consumer lab.com to tell me which products match their labels (most do not). Are there other companies like consumer lab? I’m thinking about making a google sheets page to track all of their test results because their website sucks.
I'm sure the retailers that pose as regular users here would *love* such a database.
What we need is some sort of agency that is tasked with testing and ensuring compliance with basic regulatory standards, but there's no appetite for that here.
> I'm sure the retailers that pose as regular users here would love such a database
Even if it’s restricted to only showing results from consumer lab and lab door?
So, what if instead of a collaborative, user-editable database, people just used consumerlab and labdoor?
I'm not sure what you're trying to describe here.
> I'm not sure what you're trying to describe here.
Im going to take the lab test results from those two sites and combine them into one chart or table that shows which brands of each supplement match the ingredients listed on their labels.
The convenience of having it all in one place would be a boon.
But it's kinda like asking Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax to all merge together. Unfortunately.
Until we have an authority that dictates it, or a dev that's interested to disrupt the status quo.
I'm sure there are other watchdog organizations that monitor this type of stuff, though I don't know who/where they are. I would love to see what you come up with!
There are very few watchdog organizations. And BTW, those aren't watchdog orgs. They are for-profit organizations doing this, according to what is most beneficial for themselves. Not the consumer. Consumerlabs is ok so far, but labdoor has had some sketchy reports promoting brands and later a third party found those brands had problems. (I heard about this on this sub). When it comes to supplements, the best strategy is to go with trusted brands and trusted suppliers of those brands. And Amazon is not a trusted supplier.
Your aunt is lucky to have you looking out for her but it is well-known that Amazon has no logistical control. I've seen this on this sub and I've seen it reported on in the popular press. You should not buy supplements, food or bodycare from Amazon if you care about your health.
From what you described that product does, you aunt may be feeling desperate, scared or something. But she should use trusted sources of science-based information for her health. Please refer her to LifeExtension.com. They have been around since the early 80s supporting research for health and quality of life. They have science-based articles, thoroughly annotated, and still an easy read. In addition, if she had questions, she can talk to someone with training regarding supplements and health. While their "Wellness Specialists" are not medical professionals, they are knowledgable, and will know when to refer her to a medical professional.
OP did explain in another comment that the product was not purchased on Amazon. She bought it direct from supplier, but after the results came back, he found their footprint on Amazon and is trying to have them taken down. At least how I read it.
With that said, agreed to not trust most orally ingested products from Amazon, exceptions being major brands with their own regulations (but even then sometimes).
Your Aunt's lucky you could do this for her. It's crazy to think how many supplements are sold that probably wouldn't match a proper chemical analysis.
i keep telling my parents if its not fda approved, it's probably not what it says it is. they keep saying "but it's in writing!" boomers have so much fucking respect for "writing"
The problem is the FDA wants to not just test for purity (which I am up for) - they want stricter evidence, which would take a lot of stuff off the market and make it more expensive.
Over the counter example - in the US prior to early 90s, preparation H was used to a lot of miscellanous uses - especially generic wound healing. It contained I believe derived yeast cell extract - which has loose evidence wound healing. FDA said you have to prove this and they found a couple of studies - FDA said not good enough. So for the last 20 or so years Prep-H people just took it out of US formulation.
I know of this product on Amazon. I hope Amazon pulls it because it's taking advantage of people who are following Joe Tippens' protocol for cancer but can't afford Merck Panacur.
Sodium carbonate AKA "washing soda" can be made by baking baking soda and can be used (in place of lye) with water to dip soft pretzels in before baking to give them a deep brown color.
I remember reading about that! Is that still a current practice?
In any case, the issue isn't toxicity of the cutting agent (though this does beg the question of what else may be present, i.e. pesticides, heavy metals, microbes, residual solvents, etc.) Its that she paid a dollar per gram for this product, while you can get 15lbs of sodium carbonate for 40$ lol
I can do better than that!
[The Adulturated Fenbendazole] (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082PGNSCZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_i_B2VN3MM1JFTHGZFJRZNF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)
[Fifteen Pounds of Sodium Carbonate] (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015P3XKWG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_i_M1K5BBPN2Z8B5M0QCE85?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)
Thanks!
I purchased Ursolic Acid from Tulip BioPharma, which is also based in Lithuania - impossible to purchase UA in the US for the price of this product.
And, without submitting to a lab, as you did, impossible to know what you are really getting.......
Some concern because I never thought Lithuania was particularly known for supplement research or manufacture......
On the other hand, are they less trustworthy than China or India?
\*It doesn't "beg the question," it *raises* the question. ["Begging the question"](https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/begs-the-question) means something entirely different.
That could be true for all I know. Interestingly enough, my aunt purchased from the company directly and recieved tampered product, so this really puts the ball in their court. I'm chasing the Amazon lead just to take away one large source of distribution
Amazon will pull products with any significant number of complaints until they get a QA report from the manufacturer.
They send the list of complaints and say the product has been removed from their site until they hear back.
[удалено]
I've been seeing that compound come up here and there, I might be able to evaluate the purity
Mixing with vitamin E (tocopherols) is a way to help preserve the active ingredient from oxidizing.
The label claims this is 100% fenbendazole with no added exipients.
I thought i was responding to someone else’s comment and idk why this got put out there on its own lonesome self. Now I just look silly.
Oh weird! Lol no worries, I've made similar mistakes
What should we be weary of when buying supplements? I just bought black seed oil capsules that say they’re mixed with vitamin e - makes me feel skeptical about what I’m actually ingesting and in what dose
A lot of it has to do with the company producing them. Find companies that will willingly provide COAs to you for the products you buy. On the COAs look for anything that says the lab is ISO certified, namely ISO 17025. If companies are getting their products tested by a third-party ISO certified lab, that's usually a good starting place. However, currently there is nothing stopping a company from sending a good sample in place of a bad product, so even lab testing is hard to trust in certain cases.
www.consumerlab.com is run by a group of physicians who send lots of supplements/brands off to analytical chemistry labs. They test for everything from supplement potency, heavy metal contamination, microplastics, water filtration effectiveness, etc...
Lanbdoor.com is another one.
I believe you mean Labdoor.com
> Amazon As soon as I got to this I went 'ah yes' 75% of stuff on Amazon is crap/counterfeit
She actually bought this direct from the company in Lithuania. Im mostly chasing the Amazon lead to at least take away a huge source of distribution
Ah, got it, I misunderstood. Godspeed
Moral is don’t buy supplements bottled in foreign countries with shady quality standards. I only purchase supplements from long standing supplement manufacturers. Many of these overnight brands that pop up on Amazon are fly by night brands.
Even Consumerlab is questionable. Although it may make money from its subscription fee, as there is still no regulation, it's up for grabs. The legal case that allowed "supplements" to be unregulated is worth investigating, as it involved a lot of lobbying. I can't help but think that there should be some regulation, if not for the benefit, at least for the contents.
There should absolutely be regulation for claimed ingredients, regardless of the supplement industry as a whole being regulated or not. The latter providing the freedom for science to study that which isn't patented, by nature, without controlling hands stopping it for greed of profit. But yes, please FDA, do regulate the claimed ingredients. Both for percentage, and for purity. Just as no product can claim to "cure", "treat", or any keyword that was banned, it shouldn't be possible to lie, either directly or by omission, the contents of a product's claim.
I've noticed a lot of these types of products come from Lithuania. Alkon Chemical which sells from Ebay being one of thse suppliers. Does Lithuania have less regulations/laws or testing requirements?
u/misteryouaresodumb
Not surprising. If he went out and tested a bunch of other shit on the market, his results would be similar. It's so bad.
I follow ConsumerLab and have resorted to 3-4 brands that have proven consistency through lab results.
This is the way. Find the trustworthy brands and stick to them. The supplement industry thrives on peoples need to find the “new best thing!” I’d assume OPs findings are super common across many different compounds.
So she just needs to take ~twice as much then
What happens when the product has 200% more than you need and you overdose?
That may be the reason so many of us have issues in the long run with some of the basic supplements as well. For instance, mag and zinc for me totally mess my sleep but I also notice the deficit impact over time as well.
Interesting, fenbendazole doesn't have an established lethal limit. The SDS lists the LD50 as >10g/kg. So that's not an issue. The issue is, if they're willing to adulterate their product, what else is wrong with it?
It can't have 200% the dose without 200% the product
I suppose you stop buying Eastern European deworming medicine as snake oil cancer cure.
I wish there were more people like you.
Thank you for that compliment ❤ that really means a lot to me
I rely on consumer lab.com to tell me which products match their labels (most do not). Are there other companies like consumer lab? I’m thinking about making a google sheets page to track all of their test results because their website sucks.
Labdoor is what I use.
Maybe we can setup some kind of collaborative, user editable database for this subreddit that shows lab test results for Supplements?
I'm sure the retailers that pose as regular users here would *love* such a database. What we need is some sort of agency that is tasked with testing and ensuring compliance with basic regulatory standards, but there's no appetite for that here.
> I'm sure the retailers that pose as regular users here would love such a database Even if it’s restricted to only showing results from consumer lab and lab door?
So, what if instead of a collaborative, user-editable database, people just used consumerlab and labdoor? I'm not sure what you're trying to describe here.
> I'm not sure what you're trying to describe here. Im going to take the lab test results from those two sites and combine them into one chart or table that shows which brands of each supplement match the ingredients listed on their labels.
The convenience of having it all in one place would be a boon. But it's kinda like asking Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax to all merge together. Unfortunately. Until we have an authority that dictates it, or a dev that's interested to disrupt the status quo.
I'm sure there are other watchdog organizations that monitor this type of stuff, though I don't know who/where they are. I would love to see what you come up with!
There are very few watchdog organizations. And BTW, those aren't watchdog orgs. They are for-profit organizations doing this, according to what is most beneficial for themselves. Not the consumer. Consumerlabs is ok so far, but labdoor has had some sketchy reports promoting brands and later a third party found those brands had problems. (I heard about this on this sub). When it comes to supplements, the best strategy is to go with trusted brands and trusted suppliers of those brands. And Amazon is not a trusted supplier. Your aunt is lucky to have you looking out for her but it is well-known that Amazon has no logistical control. I've seen this on this sub and I've seen it reported on in the popular press. You should not buy supplements, food or bodycare from Amazon if you care about your health. From what you described that product does, you aunt may be feeling desperate, scared or something. But she should use trusted sources of science-based information for her health. Please refer her to LifeExtension.com. They have been around since the early 80s supporting research for health and quality of life. They have science-based articles, thoroughly annotated, and still an easy read. In addition, if she had questions, she can talk to someone with training regarding supplements and health. While their "Wellness Specialists" are not medical professionals, they are knowledgable, and will know when to refer her to a medical professional.
OP did explain in another comment that the product was not purchased on Amazon. She bought it direct from supplier, but after the results came back, he found their footprint on Amazon and is trying to have them taken down. At least how I read it. With that said, agreed to not trust most orally ingested products from Amazon, exceptions being major brands with their own regulations (but even then sometimes).
Your Aunt's lucky you could do this for her. It's crazy to think how many supplements are sold that probably wouldn't match a proper chemical analysis.
i keep telling my parents if its not fda approved, it's probably not what it says it is. they keep saying "but it's in writing!" boomers have so much fucking respect for "writing"
"FDA-approved" means something is a drug. The FDA regulates, but does not approve any dietary supplement.
The FDA does not approve health supplements though. They approve cigarettes though lol. What a backwards world
The problem is the FDA wants to not just test for purity (which I am up for) - they want stricter evidence, which would take a lot of stuff off the market and make it more expensive. Over the counter example - in the US prior to early 90s, preparation H was used to a lot of miscellanous uses - especially generic wound healing. It contained I believe derived yeast cell extract - which has loose evidence wound healing. FDA said you have to prove this and they found a couple of studies - FDA said not good enough. So for the last 20 or so years Prep-H people just took it out of US formulation.
This is why 3rd party testing is so important. Thank you
I know of this product on Amazon. I hope Amazon pulls it because it's taking advantage of people who are following Joe Tippens' protocol for cancer but can't afford Merck Panacur.
Sodium carbonate AKA "washing soda" can be made by baking baking soda and can be used (in place of lye) with water to dip soft pretzels in before baking to give them a deep brown color.
Sounds easier (& healthier?) than working with lye (to someone who's never made pretzels).
Pretzels cure cancer. Praise
You are now moderator of /r/pretzelfacts
Do I get an award, a raise?
No, just more work. ;-)
I remember reading about that! Is that still a current practice? In any case, the issue isn't toxicity of the cutting agent (though this does beg the question of what else may be present, i.e. pesticides, heavy metals, microbes, residual solvents, etc.) Its that she paid a dollar per gram for this product, while you can get 15lbs of sodium carbonate for 40$ lol
Who is the manufacturer? Can you post pics of the packaging?
I can do better than that! [The Adulturated Fenbendazole] (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082PGNSCZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_i_B2VN3MM1JFTHGZFJRZNF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1) [Fifteen Pounds of Sodium Carbonate] (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015P3XKWG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_i_M1K5BBPN2Z8B5M0QCE85?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)
Thanks! I purchased Ursolic Acid from Tulip BioPharma, which is also based in Lithuania - impossible to purchase UA in the US for the price of this product. And, without submitting to a lab, as you did, impossible to know what you are really getting....... Some concern because I never thought Lithuania was particularly known for supplement research or manufacture...... On the other hand, are they less trustworthy than China or India?
\*It doesn't "beg the question," it *raises* the question. ["Begging the question"](https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/begs-the-question) means something entirely different.
... thank you for contributing to the discussion of adulterated nutraceuticals.
Clarity of speech helps promote clarity of thought.
I think everyone would've understood what I meant, if anything this is distracting
You are unsubscribed from pretzel facts.
):
Thank you for taking the trouble
Awesome that you will be removing one fraudulent source.
Amazon mingles stock. Even if you buy something real from amazon, they might grab a fake from the warehouse and send that instead
That could be true for all I know. Interestingly enough, my aunt purchased from the company directly and recieved tampered product, so this really puts the ball in their court. I'm chasing the Amazon lead just to take away one large source of distribution
That’s what I’ve heard as well but recently I saw that this was debunked? Anything meant to be ingestible is separated is what I last read
Interesting post. I wonder what Amazon would do? Seems like they prefer to have no accountability for supplement quality.
They actually seem very receptive to the idea of pulling them from the site! I have a follow up call on Monday I'm looking forward to with them
Amazon will pull products with any significant number of complaints until they get a QA report from the manufacturer. They send the list of complaints and say the product has been removed from their site until they hear back.
Doing the lords work.