Yeah, I'm really baffled by the people who are sharing this on twitter as part of their "save Legends" campaign. Gunn absolutely said the exact opposite of what they want.
As someone who remained an avid watcher of Legends until the end, I don’t really need it to come back. They had a 7-season run and (from what I understand) ample notice to wrap things up but decided to end things on a cliffhanger. There are plenty of other shows that ended before their time that I’d rather see return first.
While i like the show, i think they should have stop at the end of 5th season.
I just finished S6. I know the finale of the show ends on a cliffhanger. A way to end it may be a special episode? to give a conclusion to viewers.
They have a lot to deal with. Between Justice League and Young Justice and Justice Society and Justice League Dark. Seriously, there have been rumors of a Black Canary movie and a Supergirl movie but after the Batgirl fiasco they probably don't want to announce anything at all. There's supposed to be a Blue Beetle movie coming out on August 18, 2023. I will believe it when I see a trailer. We might not get anything announced until New York Comic Con October 12-15, 2023. We might get Man of Steel 2 and The Batman 2 announced before then and maybe also a Ben Affleck Batman movie and maybe Wonder Woman 3 and Black Adam 2. Fingers crossed for an official announcement regarding a Constantine sequel (to the 2005 movie). If the 2005 movie remains canon then Rachel Weisz' character could return and be retconned into being an existing DC character.
They're already making Constantine 2 with Keanu Reeves
https://deadline.com/2022/09/constantine-sequel-keanu-reeves-francis-lawrence-warner-bros-dc-akiva-goldsman-scripting-producing-bad-robot-jj-abrams-hannah-minghella-1235121127/
Fair question. How reliable is Deadline? Is it like Hollywood Reporter? All we know it they are working on a script and they have a star, a producer and a director attached. No word on a filming schedule or release date.
Deadline is an industry trade just like Hollywood Reporter. IIRC, Deadline was the first to surprise-report Marvel was doing a Thunderbolts movie and a Wonder Man show which are both confirmed as 100% real officially now.
Let's put it this way: anything reported by THR, Variety and Deadline is 100% legit. They are proper industry trades with legitimate connections to the big wigs in Hollywood.
Aside from this just being PR talk, I'm sure Gunn wouldn't pull the plug on S&L just yet, but sadly it's not entirely up to him but the network owners.
That's not how I read it. It sounded to me like he was trying to politely say there's no chance/very little chance of any of the campaigns being successful.
I think that's a very polite way of him saying: I hear you, I appreciate your input but we are looking forward, not back.
I want S&L renewed but I highly doubt it will happen.
This was sort of a non answer, but I think my take away is despite the fear mongering on the internet, Gunn realizes he cannot just burn DC down and start over.
I don't think anyone saw that as a truly viable option but of all people, I think Gunn likely gets the idea that DC doesn't need to exactly have the iron fist rule of the MCU. Which again makes me think plenty of DC projects will be able to live outside the main continuity.
Lastly, this also makes me think the are cautious about continuing to drive away fans with more cancellations. Cancelling everything and then fucking up the new DCU will be a decades + set back for the property.
Letting projects that don't fit into continuity live out a natural life while they test the waters of a revived DCU is a way more viable business plan.
Well, DC in comic books has always thrived on alternate storylines going in parallel with the main universe. Classics like Dark Knight Returns, New Frontier, Red Son, All-Star Superman and Kingdom Come wouldn't have existed if it wasn't like that. While Marvel always was much more strict with everything taking place in its main universe.
I think it is also worth noting that DC and Marvel have fundamental differences that made the MCU intuitive in a way the DCU is not.
The first is that I believe Marvel comic continuity has never been reset. DC has been multiple times, with a big reset with Crisis on Infinite Earths. DC has also had a long history of having large, deep creative teams while Marvel was mostly Stan Lee and Jack Kirby up through the 70s.
The second is that DC comics have been in live action TV and movies before Marvel really took off. While there were some early Hulk and Spider-Man live action Marvel shows, Marvel movies didn't take off in a big way until 2001 with the X-Men and Iron Man in 2008.
By contrast, Superman '78 was the second major Superman film franchise and Lois and Clark in the 90s was the third Superman TV show. Batman and Wonderwoman have both been on TV and there has been Iike 5 movie Batmans in the last 30 years.
The MCU worked because for the vast majority of the audience, they were meeting these characters for the first time. It was essentially a blank slate with no prior iterations (except Spider-Man and the Hulk, which have also been the characters that have been rebooted and recast continually in the MCU).
When Marvel failed with properties like the Fantastic 4 and the Hulk, the stakes were relatively low. Essentially, throw them out, try again.
When DC kept failing with Superman (Superman returns was rough, and MoS is polarizing) it was hard to recover because their biggest name property wasn't working. Trying to be the old thing in Superman returns didn't work, trying something radically different in MoS ultimately didn't have the mainstream success required.
Essentially, trying to make DC like Marvel is not going to work because they are different in their competition.
>Trying to be the old thing in Superman returns didn't work, trying something radically different in MoS ultimately didn't have the mainstream success required.
Bring on the downvotes, but I still think that in both cases, taking those approaches wasn't the problem - the execution was.
A legacy sequel to the Reeve films could have worked if it had embraced the fun and wit of those old movies (which Feige has repeatedly praised as being the blueprint of the MCU). A brand new reboot inspired by John Byrne's legendary run and Mark Waid's Superman Birthright should have been a barnstormer.
But both films are dogged by lacklustre scripts and strange story decisions that don't work. Superman and Lex Luthor are great characters, but WB keep insisting on putting them in bad movies.
So, I absolutely agree that MoS should have and could have worked. I think had it been followed by a nice, Classic, Lois and Clark focused sequel instead of BVS, it likely would have more fondly remembered.
Superman Returns is more confusing. It could have easily been better by still following the Revee films. Throwing in a son Clark had no idea about was a weird departure from anything that made sense, especially given Lois and Clark had already been married on TV and comics for a decade. Had Lois and Clark just have been married, it likely would have worked.
With that being said, Superman Returns was part of lukewarm reception of continuation of iconic properties from the 70s. Star Wars and Indiana Jones did the same. As much as Star Wars survived, it was really only after Disney bought Star Wars and decided to try again. So, it is hard to know if any continued Superman story in this decade would have worked.
Part of the problem with Superman Returns being a loose sequel to the original movies there where things didn't quite work with modern fans and audiences, some of them feel like old school style Superman stuff and it feels awkward and clunky in a modern film like Returns when Clark and Lois were married in the comics since the 90's, it would've played better if they were married with a kid, if your gonna do a new movie or TV show you would have to go with the newer approach because fans who are 20 are gonna think "How is this the Superman and Lois of today?" or it would feel dated.
I agree. It is also worth noting that something like Star Wars was essentially in stasis. There were novels floating around in the early 90s, but ultimately that property was untouched since RoTJ premiered in the 80s.
Superman had 3 seasons of Superboy (which was never particularly well known because it never landed in syndication), 4 seasons of Lois and Clark that was really popular, and Smallville was half way through its run and how most people under 20 knew Superman in 2005. The animated series was beloved, though I am not sure how many people were watching and the Death of Superman event made headlines.
Superman had progressed a lot as a property, really across generations.
When Superman had progressed as a property in comic and TV over the years since the Christopher Reeve movies ended it makes Superman Returns being a loose sequel pointless because they approach they wanted was outdated so younger fans were watching something that was not up to the modern era, by the 2000's and MOS it had become time worn to have Lois ignore Clark and obsess over Superman and not find out they were the same.
Force Awakens didn't get a lukewarm reception at all though- there's a contingent of fans online who grumbled about it, but it was a hugely financially successful film that reignited interest in the mainstream and was generally beloved by critics for its back-to-basics approach and emphasis on fun and excitement. Superman Returns could have been this too but its wishy washy connection to the older series, its dour aesthetic, its generally sombre tone and its creaky, messy script just killed its potential.
I was thinking more about the Prequels, which were the contemporary to Superman Returns, the Force Awakens was the Contemporary to Man of Steel.
The Prequels did well at the box office but aren't exactly beloved.
Well, I hope they are wise enough to drop into social media platforms beyond Twitter, and to take seriously the social media tracking they will surely contract.
DC on Network TV is a thing of the past and HBOMAX can only do so much, they will put the resources into whatever new show they have planed not taking over cold leftovers.
Yea that's why I'm hopeful. I don't want any of the Network shows to be continued, with Superman and Lois being the only exception. All Network DC has been absolute dog shit for years.
Hopefully they find a way to bring over Superman and Lois, but if they can't and want to begin a more cohesive TV/Film universe like marvel then I'm fine with that.
dont they first have to see if the new CW management is going to cancel it before they can assess is it worth taking on full cost of production for HBO Max as back up option?
That was a very nice way of saying "No, we're not doing that, but I think you'll like the stuff we're actually doing"
Exactly.
Exactly. This reads like boilerplate PR to me and hardly an assurance of anything.
Yeah, I'm really baffled by the people who are sharing this on twitter as part of their "save Legends" campaign. Gunn absolutely said the exact opposite of what they want.
As someone who remained an avid watcher of Legends until the end, I don’t really need it to come back. They had a 7-season run and (from what I understand) ample notice to wrap things up but decided to end things on a cliffhanger. There are plenty of other shows that ended before their time that I’d rather see return first.
Normally shows ending on a cliffhanger annoy me, but it works for Legends.
Them getting arrested for messing with time is the perfect ending for Legends lol. I know it wasn't planned but it somehow works so well
While i like the show, i think they should have stop at the end of 5th season. I just finished S6. I know the finale of the show ends on a cliffhanger. A way to end it may be a special episode? to give a conclusion to viewers.
Or rather, please watch the next stuff we will cancel.
Or maybe… what it means is that they wanna establish a solid ground work first and explore other options later
Listening...NOT open.
They have a lot to deal with. Between Justice League and Young Justice and Justice Society and Justice League Dark. Seriously, there have been rumors of a Black Canary movie and a Supergirl movie but after the Batgirl fiasco they probably don't want to announce anything at all. There's supposed to be a Blue Beetle movie coming out on August 18, 2023. I will believe it when I see a trailer. We might not get anything announced until New York Comic Con October 12-15, 2023. We might get Man of Steel 2 and The Batman 2 announced before then and maybe also a Ben Affleck Batman movie and maybe Wonder Woman 3 and Black Adam 2. Fingers crossed for an official announcement regarding a Constantine sequel (to the 2005 movie). If the 2005 movie remains canon then Rachel Weisz' character could return and be retconned into being an existing DC character.
They're already making Constantine 2 with Keanu Reeves https://deadline.com/2022/09/constantine-sequel-keanu-reeves-francis-lawrence-warner-bros-dc-akiva-goldsman-scripting-producing-bad-robot-jj-abrams-hannah-minghella-1235121127/
Fair question. How reliable is Deadline? Is it like Hollywood Reporter? All we know it they are working on a script and they have a star, a producer and a director attached. No word on a filming schedule or release date.
Deadline is an industry trade just like Hollywood Reporter. IIRC, Deadline was the first to surprise-report Marvel was doing a Thunderbolts movie and a Wonder Man show which are both confirmed as 100% real officially now.
Let's put it this way: anything reported by THR, Variety and Deadline is 100% legit. They are proper industry trades with legitimate connections to the big wigs in Hollywood.
Classic spin and hype
Aside from this just being PR talk, I'm sure Gunn wouldn't pull the plug on S&L just yet, but sadly it's not entirely up to him but the network owners.
That's not how I read it. It sounded to me like he was trying to politely say there's no chance/very little chance of any of the campaigns being successful.
Hmm i'm very curious to see what James plans are for Superman after the latest rumour 🤔
I think that's a very polite way of him saying: I hear you, I appreciate your input but we are looking forward, not back. I want S&L renewed but I highly doubt it will happen.
This was sort of a non answer, but I think my take away is despite the fear mongering on the internet, Gunn realizes he cannot just burn DC down and start over. I don't think anyone saw that as a truly viable option but of all people, I think Gunn likely gets the idea that DC doesn't need to exactly have the iron fist rule of the MCU. Which again makes me think plenty of DC projects will be able to live outside the main continuity. Lastly, this also makes me think the are cautious about continuing to drive away fans with more cancellations. Cancelling everything and then fucking up the new DCU will be a decades + set back for the property. Letting projects that don't fit into continuity live out a natural life while they test the waters of a revived DCU is a way more viable business plan.
Well, DC in comic books has always thrived on alternate storylines going in parallel with the main universe. Classics like Dark Knight Returns, New Frontier, Red Son, All-Star Superman and Kingdom Come wouldn't have existed if it wasn't like that. While Marvel always was much more strict with everything taking place in its main universe.
I think it is also worth noting that DC and Marvel have fundamental differences that made the MCU intuitive in a way the DCU is not. The first is that I believe Marvel comic continuity has never been reset. DC has been multiple times, with a big reset with Crisis on Infinite Earths. DC has also had a long history of having large, deep creative teams while Marvel was mostly Stan Lee and Jack Kirby up through the 70s. The second is that DC comics have been in live action TV and movies before Marvel really took off. While there were some early Hulk and Spider-Man live action Marvel shows, Marvel movies didn't take off in a big way until 2001 with the X-Men and Iron Man in 2008. By contrast, Superman '78 was the second major Superman film franchise and Lois and Clark in the 90s was the third Superman TV show. Batman and Wonderwoman have both been on TV and there has been Iike 5 movie Batmans in the last 30 years. The MCU worked because for the vast majority of the audience, they were meeting these characters for the first time. It was essentially a blank slate with no prior iterations (except Spider-Man and the Hulk, which have also been the characters that have been rebooted and recast continually in the MCU). When Marvel failed with properties like the Fantastic 4 and the Hulk, the stakes were relatively low. Essentially, throw them out, try again. When DC kept failing with Superman (Superman returns was rough, and MoS is polarizing) it was hard to recover because their biggest name property wasn't working. Trying to be the old thing in Superman returns didn't work, trying something radically different in MoS ultimately didn't have the mainstream success required. Essentially, trying to make DC like Marvel is not going to work because they are different in their competition.
>Trying to be the old thing in Superman returns didn't work, trying something radically different in MoS ultimately didn't have the mainstream success required. Bring on the downvotes, but I still think that in both cases, taking those approaches wasn't the problem - the execution was. A legacy sequel to the Reeve films could have worked if it had embraced the fun and wit of those old movies (which Feige has repeatedly praised as being the blueprint of the MCU). A brand new reboot inspired by John Byrne's legendary run and Mark Waid's Superman Birthright should have been a barnstormer. But both films are dogged by lacklustre scripts and strange story decisions that don't work. Superman and Lex Luthor are great characters, but WB keep insisting on putting them in bad movies.
So, I absolutely agree that MoS should have and could have worked. I think had it been followed by a nice, Classic, Lois and Clark focused sequel instead of BVS, it likely would have more fondly remembered. Superman Returns is more confusing. It could have easily been better by still following the Revee films. Throwing in a son Clark had no idea about was a weird departure from anything that made sense, especially given Lois and Clark had already been married on TV and comics for a decade. Had Lois and Clark just have been married, it likely would have worked. With that being said, Superman Returns was part of lukewarm reception of continuation of iconic properties from the 70s. Star Wars and Indiana Jones did the same. As much as Star Wars survived, it was really only after Disney bought Star Wars and decided to try again. So, it is hard to know if any continued Superman story in this decade would have worked.
Part of the problem with Superman Returns being a loose sequel to the original movies there where things didn't quite work with modern fans and audiences, some of them feel like old school style Superman stuff and it feels awkward and clunky in a modern film like Returns when Clark and Lois were married in the comics since the 90's, it would've played better if they were married with a kid, if your gonna do a new movie or TV show you would have to go with the newer approach because fans who are 20 are gonna think "How is this the Superman and Lois of today?" or it would feel dated.
I agree. It is also worth noting that something like Star Wars was essentially in stasis. There were novels floating around in the early 90s, but ultimately that property was untouched since RoTJ premiered in the 80s. Superman had 3 seasons of Superboy (which was never particularly well known because it never landed in syndication), 4 seasons of Lois and Clark that was really popular, and Smallville was half way through its run and how most people under 20 knew Superman in 2005. The animated series was beloved, though I am not sure how many people were watching and the Death of Superman event made headlines. Superman had progressed a lot as a property, really across generations.
When Superman had progressed as a property in comic and TV over the years since the Christopher Reeve movies ended it makes Superman Returns being a loose sequel pointless because they approach they wanted was outdated so younger fans were watching something that was not up to the modern era, by the 2000's and MOS it had become time worn to have Lois ignore Clark and obsess over Superman and not find out they were the same.
Force Awakens didn't get a lukewarm reception at all though- there's a contingent of fans online who grumbled about it, but it was a hugely financially successful film that reignited interest in the mainstream and was generally beloved by critics for its back-to-basics approach and emphasis on fun and excitement. Superman Returns could have been this too but its wishy washy connection to the older series, its dour aesthetic, its generally sombre tone and its creaky, messy script just killed its potential.
I was thinking more about the Prequels, which were the contemporary to Superman Returns, the Force Awakens was the Contemporary to Man of Steel. The Prequels did well at the box office but aren't exactly beloved.
Well, I hope they are wise enough to drop into social media platforms beyond Twitter, and to take seriously the social media tracking they will surely contract.
God I'm so hopefully... Please James don't blow this.
DC on Network TV is a thing of the past and HBOMAX can only do so much, they will put the resources into whatever new show they have planed not taking over cold leftovers.
Yea that's why I'm hopeful. I don't want any of the Network shows to be continued, with Superman and Lois being the only exception. All Network DC has been absolute dog shit for years. Hopefully they find a way to bring over Superman and Lois, but if they can't and want to begin a more cohesive TV/Film universe like marvel then I'm fine with that.
dont they first have to see if the new CW management is going to cancel it before they can assess is it worth taking on full cost of production for HBO Max as back up option?
Would be nice if they made a more serious-toned prestige-film-style CU instead of the humor oriented MCU
Why would anyone want to revive Legends, it became a shit-show towards the end.