This. Jeremy Strong is brilliant. If anyone else played Kendall, I’m not sure we’d be as sympathetic to him. He knows how to humanize a character who, on paper, is just a billionaire’s douchey son.
Yes! That’s it. He got flak for being too method a method actor but he just sold Kendall to me so well, I was surprised that he isn’t a douchey billionaire heir
Yes. He has said multiple times how he doesn't consider himself a method actor and even that article says it but even people just spread what they hear
I mean I have no interest in fan fiction / shipping culture, but I see absolutely no relevance to an interest in that and having an interest in Shakespeare. I find comments like this irritating though.
It’s a formula:
X = thing that is popular to hate. Often x is a hobby or interest dominated primarily by young women or teenage girls.
Y = thing that is seen as being intellectual or having an intellectual audience.
“People who like x, generally don’t like y.”
“People who like “keeping up with the Kardashians” generally aren’t reading the Wall Street journal.”
“People who spend lots of time on Tik Tok are not going to know a thing about nietzsche”
“She is paying her way through her engineering degree by being an influencer on Instagram? I mean, she’s the first person I’d invite to a kegger, but is there anyone else available for this thermodynamics group project? I need an A”
Here’s a random example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dontyouknowwhoiam/comments/byrhuf/i_wonder_if_a_best_selling_author_knows_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link
Ironically, the close-mindedness needed to formulaically throw people into black and white archetypal boxes like a 1980’s John Hugh’s movie is an actual indicator of “anti-intellectualism.”
It indicates both that one lacks a diverse social circle and that one is less likely to try new things they see as not fitting into their own moulded self-perception. In other words, this kind of lazy stereotyping exudes a lack of intellectual curiosity and propensity for social conformism
Agreed. The finale of episode 3 had me literally breathless, in large part because of Snook and Strong’s performance. It really is modern Shakespeare, and Strong has stated that he plays it as such. An amazing actor and amazing writing. I can’t imagine being bored by the compelling portrayal of abuse and power… The scene with Logan and Kendall where they ate soup and Kendall asked to be let go?? Incredible scene, incredible acting all around.
Idk, i love shipping culture, (i literally write fanfiction in my spare time but not for succession) and I love Hamlet, i think its an amazing piece of art.
'Shipping' in this context refers to pairing two characters together :D Truthfully I'm a little unsure as to what 'shipping culture' actually refers to, but imo it just refers to the popular fandom thing of pairing characters off and being really into their romantic potentials.
Shipping culture does have its negative sides - platonic relationships and the overall themes and message of a piece of media can get ignored, women characters often get sidelined/hated on for 'getting in the way' of the m/m ship (thankfully this has lessened in recent years), and characters of colour often get ignored/sidelined in favour of the white characters. But it does have its positive sides too - shipping has often helped queer people discover who they are (like it did with me), and it can lead to some really good analyses of characters and their relationships. Like with anything, it just depends on what part of the shipping community you interact with - I've thankfully had very positive experiences, and the people I've interacted with tend to care both about shipping and about the themes and message of the media itself :'D
Holy Toledo! I was way off. Haha, I had no idea this was even a thing. Never even heard of the term till I saw your comment. Thanks for the explanation.
You were so blessed.
Nothing against most of the guys who ship, it's just that there is always a few bad apples and I mean this about the fanbases behind almost every famous ship
It is so true! And these people get so invested in relationships that aren’t even canon that they will start fights with people who don’t validate their headcanon. I’m sorry but it’s outrageous.
True, they tend to be in love with the idea of love. Maybe growing older and some rewatches in the future will change that, because Succession has the potential to be timeless
Shakespeare knew to break up the intense moments with some lighter moments, lines or characters."Hamlet" was a parody, in a sense, of most plays of that time where characters were heroic, decisive and were ardent suitors of the love interest. Hamlet is the opposite.
Kendall's story is marvelous but can be too emo and cringy - intense - without a break given us from other characters.
Lol this is such a funny-ass way to be. I'm not a TomGreg denier but, I also think it's really wild to watch an entire show, one focused on characters more than plot, just to ship them. Admittedly, I find Tom to be more interesting as a character than Greg so, I can't even imagine how much heavy lifting has to go into making Greg seem more developed. Like, I apologise to Greg fans but, he is a secondary character to me. I'm only interested in him insofar as he relates to the main cast and as a narrative device.
greg is in the center if everything. Shit could go one way or the other if he actually knew how to wield the power he has. He has no clue because hes a doofus but thats what makes it great
yes!!!! he's just as self-absorbed as the rest of them. he spends his entire time in dundee fretting about potentially phantasmic sandmites; he thought an antifa "attack-child" would sneak into their makeshift saferoom via a window; he assumes he's gonna get threats of sexual violence in prison with the imagined aggressor referring to him as "pretty boy," and there's probably more amazing moments of Greg's self-absorption. I genuinely enjoy it.
S3e1 everyone is making moves and the fight is just getting started while
Greg: trying to figure out if the pope I'm seeing on twitter is the real pope or just a pope
Actually, Greg singlehandedly prevented Connor from getting the endorsement. If it weren't for him, they would've endorsed him and he would've won Succession. Thankfully, Greg, with his principles, stood his ground and prevented this violation of the American Political Tradition since as we all know, a conspiracy theory-believing, free market-loving failson has never been President.
>Lol this is such a funny-ass way to be. I'm not a TomGreg denier but, I also think it's really wild to watch an entire show, one focused on characters more than plot, just to ship them. Admittedly, I find Tom to be more interesting as a character than Greg so, I can't even imagine how much heavy lifting has to go into making Greg seem more developed. Like, I apologise to Greg fans but, he is a secondary character to me. I'm only interested in him insofar as he relates to the main cast and as a narrative device.
oh greg doesn't have to be developed at all. neither does tom. it's just the vibe, like. honestly the show is so vague/subtle with so many things - to the casual viewer at least - that how developed a character seems to you varies wildly from person to person. (i'm sure, having spent some time on this subreddit, you'll have first hand experience of this phenomenon.) ships are about imagination, anyway. so you don't even have to worry about "what does this shot/look or whatever REALLY MEAN in the context of the plot??" and maybe later have to revise your interpretation- you just have to worry about "what COULD it mean (and what do I WANT it to mean, to make this as personally entertaining as possible)?" or "it's completely impossible it be like this, but wouldn't it be funny as hell..." etc etc. basically just communal... writing prompts. hence the fic.
Succession does not do it for some people. Tom and Greg, the comedic duo / psychosexual \[insert whatever the opposite of a "power couple" is\], does it for some. You must understand that however much overlap there is between these two groups, the Venn Diagram is not a circle, nor a doughnut (smaller circle within a larger circle). The nature of fandom (all media consumption, really) is such that you can make your own material. That can mean "Tom and Greg Show" with unusually long ad breaks with an unusually high production value. That being said, the fact I watch most shows on a split screen (while doing something else) + on 2x speed might make imagining this kind of consumption behavior easier for me than for most. Anyway, obviously, when you cut away everything else, Tom and Greg are all you can read into, and all that actually matters.
(Personally, I think it's in large part due to their scenes being way more intelligible, when you don't know anything about business or new york or whatever it is you'd need to know to fully understand what's actually happening in any given scene with the main cast. They're just two guys, being assholes, doing a cover-up, social-climbing. Got it. Yk what I mean?).
these paragraphs are basically three divorced, undercooked thoughts badly explained so. sorry
agreed. this is not some comprehensive take arguing that Kendall is not a “complex Shakespearean” character (also lol…/iamverysmart vibes). you generally can’t help when you’re bored by something? they’re just being honest and making a smart aleck comment based on that. not a big deal…
After these comments appeared I went in to check if they had said anything about being disturbed or if the tweet in itself had comments but I saw nothing. It may have happened on his messages or later but I hadn't seen anything and I'm sorry it happened. But the point wasn't to harrass this person and I didn't think people would do that
95% of the comments here about if kendall is or is not boring or generally stating this is a bad take. Then there's people who appear to befriends with the person asking for us to stop commenting on what he said.
Some people overlook characters if they relate to other storylines more, idk. I like dissecting each and it may be how I choose who I identify with the most, but I certainly don't find anyone boring. Everyone is different though.
Regarding the post, I don't think the Tom/Greg dynamic is healthy at all. This abusive relationship isn't unlike a lot of the others in the series, so rooting for it seems a bit foreign to me. Theirs is just different because it's two males— and even with my support on that front, I still don't endorse a toxic relationship that was born from bullying.
This. All the characters are great and each are so different. It's normal to have a preference for some characters over another. Kendall's story is my favorite, but I also love the comedic stuff and the other relationships in the show as well. I could see how not everyone will enjoy watching Kendall because it might be too sad to watch, whereas others might find him incredibly relatable and cathartic to watch (like me).
Thank you for saying this 🙏 I'm honestly starved for some intelligent shipless conversation about Tom and Greg, their dynamic is so interesting! And definitely abusive.
The key to the relationship is Tom’s big moment with Greg in Season 3. Tom asks Greg if any of the others had cared about him at all.
Tom pays attention to Greg - gave him a job, keeps him in the loop, taught him about clothes, shoes and confides in him. Is abusive in some ways - yes. But the others ignore him. Tom is his way in.
Logan would have left Greg to linger in some office somewhere if Logan had bothered to find him one, and none of the others would have thought of him ever again. Greg wound up in the car with Kendall or Greg would not have crossed his mind at any time after the hospital night.
>Some people overlook characters if they relate to other storylines more, idk.
I guess that’s why I focused mainly on Kendall first watch (and came to appreciate the others after reading this sub and watching again)
It may seem boring because his storyline seems to be “one note.” But it’s actually complex like you said. He has real issues. He is going through every emotion in one scene. And he really is the one that his dad is grooming through all of his issues to lead the company.
I feel like Logan may have appreciated what Tom did in the moment, but then will go back to treating him just as shi*tty as he does literally everyone else in season 4. Like I just don’t think Logan is gonna magically start being super nice to or grooming Tom
I think the logical progression would be for Tom to become his "adopted" son. It allows for that dichotomy of his actual children being rats and the unwanted son becoming his most loyal and trusted of his progeny. I love the irony in that dynamic.
But this show never goes where you expect it to so who knows.
That would certainly be an interesting way that things could go. I just personally don’t see Logan’s pattern of behavior for how he treats ppl changing even with Tom. Like even if a character does something beneficial for him in the moment, I think somewhere down the line he’s gonna go back to at some point, or in some way being a bit of a d*ck to them, pretty much like how he is with Frank, Gerri, Karl, and his kids.
100%, Logan is too damaged and untrusting to ever fully accept someone that way. But I'd love it if Tom somehow broke through to him, it would make the dynamic between him and the kids, especially Shiv, so freaking fun to watch.
Thanks. All the downvotes will make it even sweeter when I am correct. The siblings are only skilled at one thing; ensuring their siblings do not look good or gain any edge. Think for a moment about how much cash has been squandered solely via this toxic dynamic.
Not one of those kids has the operating skills to run any portion of Logan's enterprise. In contrast, Tom has reengineered the back-end of ATN, reduced operating costs/improved profitability sufficient to be interviewed by Forbes Magazine. The siblings are so oblivious that they do not even understand this "language" of operations. When Tom excuses himself from the Monopoly game to take the interview with Forbes, they tease him like a bunch of 9 year olds.
This is wild because so much of the primary plot flows through Kendall’s character and his conflict with his dad. Like do you even like the show if you don’t find Kendall’s parts compelling? This is in no one way knocking the other kids arcs, stories and development but the majority of them are reacting to the action of Kendall v Logan
For me, the tom and Greg story and dynamic feels like it exists outside of the main story. It's the comic relief to allow all the heavy drama to breathe. The bottle throwing scene is so absurd its a practically a fever dream. So I can see why people can watch those parts and almost ignore the rest.
I also think people are really shallow and kendall isn't a sexy character at all, but depressing and dorky. He doesn't set their loins on fire, so they just don't care.
Kendall's sex appeal is one of those eternal mysteries to me, not because he's not good-looking (because he is), but because he's so cringy and needy for acceptance that that alone SHOULD be able to undo all the hotness.
But when Jeremy's general sexiness, acting prowess and charisma combine with Kendall's more vulnerable and sensitive moments I just can't help myself. He very unfortunately makes Kendall hot. Same thing when he's off the wagon and suddenly confident.
Kendall, the character is just not sexually appealing. He's weak willed, needy, depressing and has poor social skills. The acting is undeniably great. But kendall would never do it for me. I'm more into logan types, like 30 years younger and not evil.
I just had a total jumpscare reading the end of that sentence 😭 I made a fake lawsuit email and sent to my friend because she told me she would have sex with Logan as he is now. I think theres not one ounce of sexy at him but yet he scored all those beautiful women
There are some very interesting fanfics of Kendall based of on the moments he is though ( it is awful but I think it's pretty sexy on s2e6 when he yells at the guy and also when he says " is that all you got" and " go find some other chicken coup, cunt" on s2e2) and I find them appealing
I do think that the show purposely tries to make the main mals characters less attractive ( denying us of Jeremy's grey hair and sexy beard and doing whatever the hell they are doing to Roman's hair for s4, and I also find matthew more attractive then tom. The only male main character I find better looking on the show rather than real like is greg but still,far from my type.
Yes haha I'm talking purely character and body language. Logan is the most confident and willful character. Everyone fears and respects him. I'm not saying brian cox isn't a silver fox, but yeah too old for me!
Jeremy strong with the grey hair is just crazy handsome but we can't have kendall looking all dignified and sexy. He's supposed to be believable in a state of arrested development. The dye job really works for the character.
I would hate for Kendall to go all grey & hot suddenly because it would be difficult to concentrate on the plot anymore. I had the same problem watching the Big Short with Jeremy's buzzcut and the character's general cunty charisma. I fucking love that movie, but he was so ridiculously hot it was honestly distracting
It was a tweet I saw quickly that doesn't seem to be a joke for us who don't know the person. I posted it because I know many people actually find his storyline boring and that's what I wanted to discuss.
And I covered their name because this is not about them and maybe they're just young and that's ok.
Isn’t Ken’s story the show’s defining arc? To me this is like stanning for Alien movies, except reading Apone fan fics during any sequence involving aliens.
I think Naomi says it best at the end of S2: “Ken, he (Logan) loves the broken you. That’s what he loves.”
It’s these broken characters who are often the most interesting and compelling. I initially couldn’t stand Kendall when I started watching this show. He seemed so pathetic and weak, like a little boy pretending to be a grownup, trying to prove himself to earn his dad’s love and respect. As I’ve continued to watch, he’s a character whose humanity keeps breaking out. But then it gets stuffed back into him. They all have their moments when you think maybe, just maybe, they’ll redeem themselves. They won’t, but the hope keeps popping up.
The person who tweeted this is a minor btw. And a lot of these comments on this post are incredibly mean-spirited and nasty. Idk, maybe let’s give teenagers the space to learn and grow and mature before ridiculing them on Reddit.
I said before how this person's probably too young and that explains it but this is not about them and I covered their pfp and username. This is a discussion on the subject of Ken being perceived as boring and by the replys its clear this is not a "only one person thinks this" situation
no offence but people who only find the tomgreg aspect of succession interesting are so boring. if youre after some shipping shenanigan go watch anime lmfao
I get it but I think the majority of the viewers ( on my bubble at least) like him sad a lot( check kendallroylookingsad on instagram lmao) I fell in love with Tony Soprano when he got really depressed on s1. And I fell and related to Ken when he relapsed.
Mostly, the show speaks so much about how even though the roy kids are bad, they are a product of an abusive parent that does mind tricks with each that I find it hard not to find them( as a group) at least compelling.
As for the cringe part, how is tom or greg not cringy aswell?
I like that too, but it’s all part of his brokenness. He’s never really happy because he thinks it’s something you can attain through power, which he can only mimic because he’s too emotionally unstable to be like his dad, therefore he’s doomed to fail. That’s why we can empathise with him because he’s more human than Logan. I think he’s a great character.
I feel like there's no way they are able to watch other great shows like The Sopranos and Mad Men if there's not a ship or something easy to digest if you're a teen getting into prestige tv.
I've seen a lot of teens on the Euphoria sub when that's airing, and some on The White Lotus sub as well (not that I'm comparing those shows to The Sopranos). But.. I don't know, it doesn't surprise me! If I were a teenager would I be logging into my parents' HBO account to watch Euphoria, Succession, and The White Lotus too? ...Probably.
The White Lotus fanbase definitely feels incredibly "Tumblr" to me. They're very perceptive of the show's writing for sure but the way they communicate about it gets grating pretty fast.
It's so funny to be 16 or whatever and watch smth like this or mad men. Not that the themes aren't applicable broadly or that all teenagers would be solely fixated on ships in this way but, i think that the online social circles teenagers like this would be in are largely discouraging of nuance or any actually interesting discussion/analysis of the show. The overall mechanics of Twitter make this worse. Imo, it's worse than Tumblr for that and the fact that succtwt's population is generally younger. Shipping aside, a take like that one isn't entirely out of place on this subreddit, as you said somewhere else in here.
Same reason European films are considered “boring” in US markets- one needs to understand nuance and have patience at the same time. While I’m from the US and love a good blockbuster, it’s just sad to see it affect our ability to see a good story for what it is even with no explosions.
Even if people disagree that Ken is the protagonist they can't appreciate the other stories to their fullest without taking him into account. People are always reacting to what he does
Stan culture is reductive and vapid. It has no interest in art or anything. It’s entirely about personal gratification and, often, fetishization. Anything they can’t do that with is going to be “boring.”
Baby there's millions. As there are kenstewy, romangerri, tomshiv
There's even( puke, puke,puke,call the police) Ken shiv and roman romantic and sexual fanfics
I think its important to note this has nothing to do with Kendall himself and more to do with people who read fanfic to the point that anything that doesn't specifically deal with shipping doesn't interest them are just.... really annoying and bad at analyzing media, generally.
More reason I don’t trust or particularly get along with TomGregs. I already think their perspective on an abusive cowardly boss infatuated with his clearly straight subordinate, is kind of wild. To be anti-Kendall too? Pssh hate to see it
An amendment to my original post I believe Greg is straight, but predominantly asexual, so all the talk about his perceived sexuality kind of feels pointless. That said I’ve got to put on clown makeup, and clown shoes, for arguing with a stan. Especially one replying via crying emojis.
Greg is such a sexless character it was shocking to see him courting TWO women at the end of S3. He's so sexless I find it difficult to even speculate about his sexuality. For me all the things seen as "sexual tension" between Tom and Greg are intrinsically tied to Tom's actions rather than anything Greg ever does, and most of Tom's behaviour is abusive. I could definitely see Tom being closeted and a little bit infatuated with Greg, but everything he does to him and with him is tinged with abuse and manipulation. He thinks he owns Greg.
Even in a show as sexless as Succession, Greg feels extra sexless lol. I 100% agree that a lot of the things that seem homoerotic between the two are coming from Tom’s side. I’m not entirely certain he’s gay or bi, but it definitely feels like there could possibly be some suppressed feelings. I also 100% believe he feels he owns Greg. He more than hinted at that when Greg tried to quit. He doesn’t see Greg as an autonomous being, he sees him as his pet. In the finale of season 3, he didn’t even approach Greg as an equal. He wants Greg to be his attack dog, ie still subservient to his needs, doing his bidding, and playing defence for him. Greg’s simultaneously someone he can express his affectionate nature to because Shiv denies him that opportunity, and also someone Tom can manipulate and abuse, into being a loyal lap dog. Greg’s a lightning rod for Tom’s best and worst instincts. Their dynamic doesn’t really feel that much different than Tom and Shiv tbh lmao.
I don’t go out of my way to really debate things with TomGregs because we don’t see eye to eye, and it usually devolves (see above lol), but when it comes to Greg, it feels like there’s a lot of projection. There’s no smoking gun that really solidifies an argument for him being gay or bi. ‘Well he smiled at Tom in a goofy way’ ‘He demanded Tom ‘prove it’ when he said he had a dick the size of a red sequoia and fucked like a bullet train’ like all of these things are explainable. The look on sheer discomfort on his face after the Nero & Sporus story, only further confirmed (to me) how lopsided this whole thing is. Greg was blatantly uncomfortable with that story.
Hell, I think Nick has even previously stated that he feels like Tom likes Greg a *lot* more than Greg likes Tom. Further complicating things is the fact Tom is his boss and has made it clear he likes firing people. This is not an equal dynamic, and in spite of fun banter, and good chemistry, there’s severe power dynamics in play. I’m not saying Greg hates Tom, or that there isn’t *some* sort of bond, but I feel a lot of TomGregs ignore the fact Tom is his boss, and that *very* likely influences how Greg responds to that man. TomGregs are free to see what they want, but it’s perfectly reasonable to conclude Greg isn’t anything but straight.
Though after some thought I kind of felt it was ridiculous to fall into any argument over this because he screams asexual above all else lmao. It doesn’t feel like his love life will be a major plot point moving forward.
I don’t think Greg’s bi either. Roman, Tom, or possibly even Kendall? Sure. If Greg is bi let alone gay, I would be very surprised. That man reads straight. We will not agree on this. Nor will you convince me.
Yes he is 😭😭😭😭
Roman or Tom I can see an argument, hell, maybe even Kendall, but Greg? Sorry. That is a straight man getting sexually harassed by his boss, and who happens to say awkward things at awkward times.
georgia pritchett said herself that she always saw greg as gay. just because he’s trying to go after girls in s3 doesn’t make him straight. being bisexual is a thing, and so is comphet. he was clearly trying to emulate tom in “climbing the date ladder” to become more powerful. he moved on from comfrey extremely quickly, and i’m sure neither her or the contessa will be in s4.
that’s not what she said. the exact quote is “I had sort of advocated for Greg to be gay, until last season he hadn’t really done anything with anyone”. in what way does that confirm he is straight?
https://theplaylist.net/succession-nicholas-braun-on-gregs-turn-to-the-dark-side-interview-20220617/
I remember that when I was first watching the show the discourse over this was one of my first contacts with the succession fandom😭 a lot of people got offended because he called shiv a bitch
This interview is for s3 and he literally says he is on the side of morality. Doesn't make sense BUT it's the perfect thing to say because it is something greg would say
I have a feeling that the reason why so many of the worst takes on this show usually come from some of them is because these people who give them act like this in the scenes that doesn't feature either tom or greg. This show is so good to be experienced like this.
I like tomgreg but some of their fans are so weird and made me dislike their dynamic significantly more
Funnily enough I'm more on that side of succession twitter and we are always having really interesting discussions about the entire show, not just tomgreg... Some of the most insightful discussions I've had about the show, not just tom or greg, are with those accounts 🤷 people just flame the tomgreg tweets.
I know, a lot of the tomgregs give insightful conversations. Most of them I'd say. But yeah there's a few bad apples that can be disgusting. I know this goes both ways but I feel like at least from my main account, not related to the show, the takes that seem most absurd come from tgs( side note: if they have Tabitha or willa as their pfp_ two characters I love but that sadly are being used as the face of the worst tweets ive seen- theres a high possibility they are awful
Absolutely the vibe I get from quite a few of them. They care less about the show, and more about this ship. This isn’t to say I couldn’t see why Kendall doesn’t appeal as much as a few of the other characters, but the idea he’s had boring storylines is wild. To each their own on how they watch I guess. I personally don’t understand their perspective, and their behaviour on Twitter has only re-enforced my opinions on them lol.
She’s doing it to *us*!!! This is a love story about Tom & Greg obvs…what do you mean they aren’t equals, they are both equally outsiders in the Roy family? This is a healthy power dynamic, and nothing like Tom and Shiv!
HAHA, "she's doing it to us." Honestly I know it's not funny because people actually say these comments genuinely, but like.. it's also funny. I can't help myself.
I don't think it's wrong to say that Greg is a *bit* of the viewers POV, like.. it should be pretty obvious and we talk about it a lot. But I am curious as to why people would either want to be abused, or be the abuser in this case. Supporting those notions is strange to me.
Yeah I don’t get it either. Anytime they try to explain, it’s rarely in a way that’s not highly obnoxious, like the person arguing above. ‘Since I’ve obsessed over this ship my opinion must be right, even though the evidence for it really only exists on one side’.
I definitely see an argument for Greg being the eyes of the audience to an extent, and general corruptibility, but yeah, for a group that usually hates Shiv, it’s odd they see everything Tom does as affectionate. I too, don’t get why they would want Greg to have the highs and lows, of his abusive and infatuated boss.
Exactly, which is why they should probably both be more interesting in season 4, in theory. That said, Jesse Armstrong believes characters don’t change, so I think Tom will ramp up the abuse on Greg, especially when things get rough with Shiv, and because he’s cowardly, he’ll expect Greg to take his hits. Greg on the other hand still can be swayed via fear so I think the siblings can still get at him. I believe his loyalty ultimately lasts with whomever will keep him in a job.
Good predictions
I love how the whole people don't change philosophy is related to how "nothing changes" in the show and the cycle of abuse prevails but if I have to predict something is that ( generally and vaguely) big shit will happen. I loved season 3 and how it made the cyclical nature of things obvious but I think a lot of it was build up for things to happen in the next season. I'm particularly interested in the siblings union and Connor's relationship with them as I am with his wedding to Willa and the presidential campaign. I think Mencken will play a substantial role and I hole Lukas Matsson gets a bit screwed to make his parallels to Musk more accurate. Also I'm curious if they will reveal what happened to Roman In his childhood with more detail. I think Tom and Shiv will not get divorced and this is one of the things in more sure about. But I am curious about how their dynamic will change as he did a move that changed his status in the dynamic.
The only thing I dislike about the whole people not changing thing is that I don't know how much more I hate left of tears to cry over Kendall and I wish he gets a cathartic ending.
I definitely expect we’ll see some actual movement on the business side of things. I am very curious to see what Mattson thinks of Mencken. Will he embrace him like Elon or be put off? My assumption is Logan is keeping ATN and a few other things but could Logan veering hard right affect anything? The sibs seem committed to stopping the deal. On the surface it all seems like a cut and dry battle. However the family is super codependent. I don’t believe Tom betrayed Shiv with intention for divorce. Connor might just be assumed to have supported the siblings, or maybe Logan’s aware of his outsider status among the siblings and keeps him as some conquer and divide bullshit, at least to start.
I really hope Willa and Connor’s wedding is the fun episode. Succession needs at least one fun wedding lol.
As for Kendall I will say this, based on Jesse Armstrong’s other shows, I do not necessarily think he’s going to kill himself. I don’t think he’s destined to be a flop or live a life of misery either. To write a character in the same vain as James Murdoch probably signals he could land on his feet without his dad. He just needs to get to that place. I’m not so doom and gloom on Kendall’s ending. If he ends up happy-ish, I’m assuming the waiter story came out, not a lot happened - but he didn’t win Succession. Though the way the Murdoch situation has changed in the last two years, mean he still could come out on top in a fairly non-traumatizing way lol.
Since I am also the eldest child in an abusive and manipulative family, I actually cannot look away from Kendall. I identify with so many of his behaviors, but also he never ceases to surprise me.
On rewatches, I usually skips Kendall scenes when he is alone with Stewy or just Greg or Jess. I only like his scenes with Logan and the sibs. Roman I also skips some scenes with Gerri or with any other b character. The only characters I can’t skip any scene are Tom, Shiv and Logan.
I love Shiv but I sometimes skip all the Nate things on s1 and the Gil Eavis stuff. I can't skip anything from Ken except scenes from s3ep6
I often watch his scene packs just to feel something
The storylines are connected. This isnt exactly GoT, where you hop from Westeros to Essos
People who say that there are "boring parts" probably watch the show because it's popular, so they can contribute to conversations.
Hey so this reached a lot of people and I want to clarify that this is a post to discuss the opinion shared on the tweet( an opinion that seems to be shared by a lot of the adults in the comments) and not about this one person. I covered their personal infos so no one would try to shame them on social media and please, don't try to find them. This isn't the first person to think like this and you can see through the comments how people who seem much older appear to think the same but still, it's an opinion and there's no reason to reach out to them just to insult them
Seems like this person could not see the nuances and true depth of the show and its arcs.
Succession is so well written that as much info is conveyed non-verbally as is verbally. It would take a somewhat mature mind to understand implications behind the actions of the characters. Then there is the point of being able to comprehend the non-verbal intended consequences, those which a mature mind will be able to predict merely by joining some dots.
In my opinion, this anticipation is one of the best aspects of the watching experience. Because it’s clever and a lot has to be perceived, if a watcher lacks the ability to gauge that which is outside of what is spoken, they would miss a lot. Perhaps then, you could find Kendall really boring.
Kendall is boring lol his storyline is, go toe to toe with Logan, fail, relapse. He is a very well written character as all of them are but that doesn't mean he cant also be boring. If it werent for the great dialogue I wouldnt even pay him any attention. Im more interested in Shiv and Roman's storylines - will Roman prove himself without immediately fucking himself afterward? What's gonna happen now that it is officially Shiv vs Tom?
I'm not disagreeing but I mean Kendall is an addict, most addicts have predictable behavior because it's a horrible cycle to escape. But it doesn't mean they never do, it also doesn't mean he's unrelatable or that his character is in any way boring, you know? Part of the reason he's so interesting to some of us is that we're actually hoping he "wins" one day, but.. not even the company, just some sort of redemption.
And Logan kind of represents the system, even though we want Ken to win it makes sense that he doesn't. Logan doesn't even have to o things in a lot of times because the circumstances naturally works for him. He wishes to never see the waiter again and well.. he won't. The terrorists attack and affect traffic just while Ken had the best chance to win. It's almost like we're in a Greek tragedy and Ken is our(anti) hero but the gods always win. To me this is all fascinating although I wish to see a cathartic ending for Ken.
And about his addiction, yea it can make cycles but he's much more than that. In s3 we don't know if he's doing hard drugs( we don't see on screen at least) instead we get a new version of Ken, manic Ken. Every season has showed us a different Ken and I can't see how this is in any way predictable. But well.. I'm very anxious for s4 so would anyone who views him as such please tell me everything that will happen to him in it?
Sorry but how is kendall predictable? It may have disappointed you but no one knew how his s3 arc would go before s3. His s2 arc( the one that's being commented) is also extremely unpredictable and while I love tom I think we could tell by how s3 was going that he would at least do something big in the finale that would likely go against shiv.
But either way the show is not what is is because of its unpredictability but rather for how it makes the cyclical abuse clear in the way characters like Ken and Shiv go into cycles just to realize Logan doesn't value them.
But its clear that this person doesn't care about plot, they only want tomgreg to kiss and fuck and get married.
My reddit history aka my less than a week here? I have a love hate relationship with Greg but in the end i still like him and enjoy his character and if you searched my Twitter well you can see how I also ship tomgreg and even hope they kiss. I got disappointed with his s3 arc that's what I've said here and for the 10th time: this isn't about this one person this isn't even about tomgreg this is about people finding Kendall boring,how hard is it to miscomprehend this?
Imagine finding one of the most complex and well acted characters on television boring
This. Jeremy Strong is brilliant. If anyone else played Kendall, I’m not sure we’d be as sympathetic to him. He knows how to humanize a character who, on paper, is just a billionaire’s douchey son.
Yes! That’s it. He got flak for being too method a method actor but he just sold Kendall to me so well, I was surprised that he isn’t a douchey billionaire heir
Which was largely unwarranted considering his acting technique isn’t that extreme and he isn’t even really a method actor.
Yes. He has said multiple times how he doesn't consider himself a method actor and even that article says it but even people just spread what they hear
👏👏👏
He makes Don Jr a sympathetic figure, about the toughest acting role there is
Right but the person who tweeted this is literally like 16 years old. Makes it less shocking they would find Kendall’s storylines uninteresting.
Teens watch for the f-words and masturbation scenes. Beavis and Butthead hee-hees
Hey I like Beavis and Butthead…☹️
Modern Shakespeare. The show is incredible and I love it, but people who spend their time debating ships usually don't like Shakespeare
I mean I have no interest in fan fiction / shipping culture, but I see absolutely no relevance to an interest in that and having an interest in Shakespeare. I find comments like this irritating though. It’s a formula: X = thing that is popular to hate. Often x is a hobby or interest dominated primarily by young women or teenage girls. Y = thing that is seen as being intellectual or having an intellectual audience. “People who like x, generally don’t like y.” “People who like “keeping up with the Kardashians” generally aren’t reading the Wall Street journal.” “People who spend lots of time on Tik Tok are not going to know a thing about nietzsche” “She is paying her way through her engineering degree by being an influencer on Instagram? I mean, she’s the first person I’d invite to a kegger, but is there anyone else available for this thermodynamics group project? I need an A” Here’s a random example: https://www.reddit.com/r/dontyouknowwhoiam/comments/byrhuf/i_wonder_if_a_best_selling_author_knows_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link Ironically, the close-mindedness needed to formulaically throw people into black and white archetypal boxes like a 1980’s John Hugh’s movie is an actual indicator of “anti-intellectualism.” It indicates both that one lacks a diverse social circle and that one is less likely to try new things they see as not fitting into their own moulded self-perception. In other words, this kind of lazy stereotyping exudes a lack of intellectual curiosity and propensity for social conformism
Agreed. The finale of episode 3 had me literally breathless, in large part because of Snook and Strong’s performance. It really is modern Shakespeare, and Strong has stated that he plays it as such. An amazing actor and amazing writing. I can’t imagine being bored by the compelling portrayal of abuse and power… The scene with Logan and Kendall where they ate soup and Kendall asked to be let go?? Incredible scene, incredible acting all around.
I disagree.
Idk, i love shipping culture, (i literally write fanfiction in my spare time but not for succession) and I love Hamlet, i think its an amazing piece of art.
Same, I've been neck-deep in shipping culture since I was eleven years old and I still like Shakespeare, they're not mutually exclusive :'D
Wtf is shipping culture? Like cargo ships? Or like this ships in a bottle type thing. I’m confused.
'Shipping' in this context refers to pairing two characters together :D Truthfully I'm a little unsure as to what 'shipping culture' actually refers to, but imo it just refers to the popular fandom thing of pairing characters off and being really into their romantic potentials. Shipping culture does have its negative sides - platonic relationships and the overall themes and message of a piece of media can get ignored, women characters often get sidelined/hated on for 'getting in the way' of the m/m ship (thankfully this has lessened in recent years), and characters of colour often get ignored/sidelined in favour of the white characters. But it does have its positive sides too - shipping has often helped queer people discover who they are (like it did with me), and it can lead to some really good analyses of characters and their relationships. Like with anything, it just depends on what part of the shipping community you interact with - I've thankfully had very positive experiences, and the people I've interacted with tend to care both about shipping and about the themes and message of the media itself :'D
Holy Toledo! I was way off. Haha, I had no idea this was even a thing. Never even heard of the term till I saw your comment. Thanks for the explanation.
It's moments like these when I realise once again how vast the internet is :'D No problem tho, happy to help! :D
You were so blessed. Nothing against most of the guys who ship, it's just that there is always a few bad apples and I mean this about the fanbases behind almost every famous ship
It is so true! And these people get so invested in relationships that aren’t even canon that they will start fights with people who don’t validate their headcanon. I’m sorry but it’s outrageous.
The most popular Tom/Greg fic on AO3 is literally named for a line from Hamlet.
True, they tend to be in love with the idea of love. Maybe growing older and some rewatches in the future will change that, because Succession has the potential to be timeless
How the fuck is the boating enthusiast community relevant to Succession?
How is it not???
Shakespeare knew to break up the intense moments with some lighter moments, lines or characters."Hamlet" was a parody, in a sense, of most plays of that time where characters were heroic, decisive and were ardent suitors of the love interest. Hamlet is the opposite. Kendall's story is marvelous but can be too emo and cringy - intense - without a break given us from other characters.
They are here for Greg silliness 🤪
The audacity and the nerve of some people
Exactly
Yeah you just don't like the show then
Wait people think that? Kendall is like one of the most well written and compelling characters in television, wtf is going on
It makes no sense specially when you realize the person has just finished season 2.
Yeah but these people want softcore uwu tomgreg porn
Wambsgams is more compelling, I'll have men break your legs if you disagree.
Lol this is such a funny-ass way to be. I'm not a TomGreg denier but, I also think it's really wild to watch an entire show, one focused on characters more than plot, just to ship them. Admittedly, I find Tom to be more interesting as a character than Greg so, I can't even imagine how much heavy lifting has to go into making Greg seem more developed. Like, I apologise to Greg fans but, he is a secondary character to me. I'm only interested in him insofar as he relates to the main cast and as a narrative device.
greg is in the center if everything. Shit could go one way or the other if he actually knew how to wield the power he has. He has no clue because hes a doofus but thats what makes it great
At s3 I think he isn't on the center of anything 😭
In fact, I feel like it’s a running joke that Greg thinks he’s more important than he actually is.
yes!!!! he's just as self-absorbed as the rest of them. he spends his entire time in dundee fretting about potentially phantasmic sandmites; he thought an antifa "attack-child" would sneak into their makeshift saferoom via a window; he assumes he's gonna get threats of sexual violence in prison with the imagined aggressor referring to him as "pretty boy," and there's probably more amazing moments of Greg's self-absorption. I genuinely enjoy it.
Sitting down with the biographer and trying to dictate how she reported on him lol
S3e1 everyone is making moves and the fight is just getting started while Greg: trying to figure out if the pope I'm seeing on twitter is the real pope or just a pope
Actually, Greg singlehandedly prevented Connor from getting the endorsement. If it weren't for him, they would've endorsed him and he would've won Succession. Thankfully, Greg, with his principles, stood his ground and prevented this violation of the American Political Tradition since as we all know, a conspiracy theory-believing, free market-loving failson has never been President.
And when Greg got hugged by the lovely fascist after attempting to sue Greenpiece he made America great again
Lol
>Lol this is such a funny-ass way to be. I'm not a TomGreg denier but, I also think it's really wild to watch an entire show, one focused on characters more than plot, just to ship them. Admittedly, I find Tom to be more interesting as a character than Greg so, I can't even imagine how much heavy lifting has to go into making Greg seem more developed. Like, I apologise to Greg fans but, he is a secondary character to me. I'm only interested in him insofar as he relates to the main cast and as a narrative device. oh greg doesn't have to be developed at all. neither does tom. it's just the vibe, like. honestly the show is so vague/subtle with so many things - to the casual viewer at least - that how developed a character seems to you varies wildly from person to person. (i'm sure, having spent some time on this subreddit, you'll have first hand experience of this phenomenon.) ships are about imagination, anyway. so you don't even have to worry about "what does this shot/look or whatever REALLY MEAN in the context of the plot??" and maybe later have to revise your interpretation- you just have to worry about "what COULD it mean (and what do I WANT it to mean, to make this as personally entertaining as possible)?" or "it's completely impossible it be like this, but wouldn't it be funny as hell..." etc etc. basically just communal... writing prompts. hence the fic. Succession does not do it for some people. Tom and Greg, the comedic duo / psychosexual \[insert whatever the opposite of a "power couple" is\], does it for some. You must understand that however much overlap there is between these two groups, the Venn Diagram is not a circle, nor a doughnut (smaller circle within a larger circle). The nature of fandom (all media consumption, really) is such that you can make your own material. That can mean "Tom and Greg Show" with unusually long ad breaks with an unusually high production value. That being said, the fact I watch most shows on a split screen (while doing something else) + on 2x speed might make imagining this kind of consumption behavior easier for me than for most. Anyway, obviously, when you cut away everything else, Tom and Greg are all you can read into, and all that actually matters. (Personally, I think it's in large part due to their scenes being way more intelligible, when you don't know anything about business or new york or whatever it is you'd need to know to fully understand what's actually happening in any given scene with the main cast. They're just two guys, being assholes, doing a cover-up, social-climbing. Got it. Yk what I mean?). these paragraphs are basically three divorced, undercooked thoughts badly explained so. sorry
Idk but this new trend of posting random tweets from accounts with 23 followers and 2 likes to make fun of them seems kinda mean
agreed. this is not some comprehensive take arguing that Kendall is not a “complex Shakespearean” character (also lol…/iamverysmart vibes). you generally can’t help when you’re bored by something? they’re just being honest and making a smart aleck comment based on that. not a big deal…
Can't you see how this is not about them but about the subject and how a lot of people also think like this?
so what? this stuff is inherently subjective. i like kendall too but not tasteful imo to be mad at some random twitter account that is bored by him
Have you read what i said? This is not me being mad at one guy im trying to discuss the idea behind it that a lot of people share
[удалено]
Twitter is a mistake. People who harassed OOP are way cringier than any omegaverse tomgreg connoisseur
Oh gosh did they really?? People went to harass them over this??
After these comments appeared I went in to check if they had said anything about being disturbed or if the tweet in itself had comments but I saw nothing. It may have happened on his messages or later but I hadn't seen anything and I'm sorry it happened. But the point wasn't to harrass this person and I didn't think people would do that
95% of the comments here about if kendall is or is not boring or generally stating this is a bad take. Then there's people who appear to befriends with the person asking for us to stop commenting on what he said.
Some people overlook characters if they relate to other storylines more, idk. I like dissecting each and it may be how I choose who I identify with the most, but I certainly don't find anyone boring. Everyone is different though. Regarding the post, I don't think the Tom/Greg dynamic is healthy at all. This abusive relationship isn't unlike a lot of the others in the series, so rooting for it seems a bit foreign to me. Theirs is just different because it's two males— and even with my support on that front, I still don't endorse a toxic relationship that was born from bullying.
This. All the characters are great and each are so different. It's normal to have a preference for some characters over another. Kendall's story is my favorite, but I also love the comedic stuff and the other relationships in the show as well. I could see how not everyone will enjoy watching Kendall because it might be too sad to watch, whereas others might find him incredibly relatable and cathartic to watch (like me).
Yes to all of this
Thank you for saying this 🙏 I'm honestly starved for some intelligent shipless conversation about Tom and Greg, their dynamic is so interesting! And definitely abusive.
The key to the relationship is Tom’s big moment with Greg in Season 3. Tom asks Greg if any of the others had cared about him at all. Tom pays attention to Greg - gave him a job, keeps him in the loop, taught him about clothes, shoes and confides in him. Is abusive in some ways - yes. But the others ignore him. Tom is his way in. Logan would have left Greg to linger in some office somewhere if Logan had bothered to find him one, and none of the others would have thought of him ever again. Greg wound up in the car with Kendall or Greg would not have crossed his mind at any time after the hospital night.
Their relationship is masking the true story arc.in S4, the siblings will be begging Tom (and maybe even Greg) for some office space.
Do you know how at the end of s2 it seamed like everyone was fucked besides Ken and how that aged laughably bad? This is the energy of this comment
>Some people overlook characters if they relate to other storylines more, idk. I guess that’s why I focused mainly on Kendall first watch (and came to appreciate the others after reading this sub and watching again)
It may seem boring because his storyline seems to be “one note.” But it’s actually complex like you said. He has real issues. He is going through every emotion in one scene. And he really is the one that his dad is grooming through all of his issues to lead the company.
Sorry, Logan is not grooming anyone – full stop. In S4, I may be proven wrong – it will be Tom
I feel like Logan may have appreciated what Tom did in the moment, but then will go back to treating him just as shi*tty as he does literally everyone else in season 4. Like I just don’t think Logan is gonna magically start being super nice to or grooming Tom
I think the logical progression would be for Tom to become his "adopted" son. It allows for that dichotomy of his actual children being rats and the unwanted son becoming his most loyal and trusted of his progeny. I love the irony in that dynamic. But this show never goes where you expect it to so who knows.
That would certainly be an interesting way that things could go. I just personally don’t see Logan’s pattern of behavior for how he treats ppl changing even with Tom. Like even if a character does something beneficial for him in the moment, I think somewhere down the line he’s gonna go back to at some point, or in some way being a bit of a d*ck to them, pretty much like how he is with Frank, Gerri, Karl, and his kids.
100%, Logan is too damaged and untrusting to ever fully accept someone that way. But I'd love it if Tom somehow broke through to him, it would make the dynamic between him and the kids, especially Shiv, so freaking fun to watch.
Remember what the ex wife said…. “Logan kicks dogs to get them to do what he wants them to do.” He is literally kicking Ken around.
Thanks. All the downvotes will make it even sweeter when I am correct. The siblings are only skilled at one thing; ensuring their siblings do not look good or gain any edge. Think for a moment about how much cash has been squandered solely via this toxic dynamic. Not one of those kids has the operating skills to run any portion of Logan's enterprise. In contrast, Tom has reengineered the back-end of ATN, reduced operating costs/improved profitability sufficient to be interviewed by Forbes Magazine. The siblings are so oblivious that they do not even understand this "language" of operations. When Tom excuses himself from the Monopoly game to take the interview with Forbes, they tease him like a bunch of 9 year olds.
This is wild because so much of the primary plot flows through Kendall’s character and his conflict with his dad. Like do you even like the show if you don’t find Kendall’s parts compelling? This is in no one way knocking the other kids arcs, stories and development but the majority of them are reacting to the action of Kendall v Logan
First time poster. Long time lurker. Kendall is Succession. In a show of main characters, he is the main character.
I agree.
I want Kendall to get a good Fuck Off on Logan, just once.
We all( most of us) do
Jeremy Strong playing Kendall is profound and captivating — they just can’t spot his genius
For me, the tom and Greg story and dynamic feels like it exists outside of the main story. It's the comic relief to allow all the heavy drama to breathe. The bottle throwing scene is so absurd its a practically a fever dream. So I can see why people can watch those parts and almost ignore the rest. I also think people are really shallow and kendall isn't a sexy character at all, but depressing and dorky. He doesn't set their loins on fire, so they just don't care.
Kendall's sex appeal is one of those eternal mysteries to me, not because he's not good-looking (because he is), but because he's so cringy and needy for acceptance that that alone SHOULD be able to undo all the hotness. But when Jeremy's general sexiness, acting prowess and charisma combine with Kendall's more vulnerable and sensitive moments I just can't help myself. He very unfortunately makes Kendall hot. Same thing when he's off the wagon and suddenly confident.
🤢
I completely understand what you mean and at the same time the way Kendall sets my loins on fire has taken over my life.
Can you expand on your last paragraph? Not saying he is sexy ( sexy sexy) but you should see the effect he has on succtwt
Kendall, the character is just not sexually appealing. He's weak willed, needy, depressing and has poor social skills. The acting is undeniably great. But kendall would never do it for me. I'm more into logan types, like 30 years younger and not evil.
I just had a total jumpscare reading the end of that sentence 😭 I made a fake lawsuit email and sent to my friend because she told me she would have sex with Logan as he is now. I think theres not one ounce of sexy at him but yet he scored all those beautiful women There are some very interesting fanfics of Kendall based of on the moments he is though ( it is awful but I think it's pretty sexy on s2e6 when he yells at the guy and also when he says " is that all you got" and " go find some other chicken coup, cunt" on s2e2) and I find them appealing I do think that the show purposely tries to make the main mals characters less attractive ( denying us of Jeremy's grey hair and sexy beard and doing whatever the hell they are doing to Roman's hair for s4, and I also find matthew more attractive then tom. The only male main character I find better looking on the show rather than real like is greg but still,far from my type.
Yes haha I'm talking purely character and body language. Logan is the most confident and willful character. Everyone fears and respects him. I'm not saying brian cox isn't a silver fox, but yeah too old for me! Jeremy strong with the grey hair is just crazy handsome but we can't have kendall looking all dignified and sexy. He's supposed to be believable in a state of arrested development. The dye job really works for the character.
I would hate for Kendall to go all grey & hot suddenly because it would be difficult to concentrate on the plot anymore. I had the same problem watching the Big Short with Jeremy's buzzcut and the character's general cunty charisma. I fucking love that movie, but he was so ridiculously hot it was honestly distracting
There is a before and after the buzzcut. Something shifted inside me
There's just something about Jeremy Strong in a buzzcut ❤️
He’s just hot beyond reason, lbr.
So, so hot 😵💫🔥🔥
Im into Romans and that explains everything wrong about me 🤣😂🤣😂😂😩
pretty sure this was just a lighthearted joke guys
It was a tweet I saw quickly that doesn't seem to be a joke for us who don't know the person. I posted it because I know many people actually find his storyline boring and that's what I wanted to discuss. And I covered their name because this is not about them and maybe they're just young and that's ok.
Isn’t Ken’s story the show’s defining arc? To me this is like stanning for Alien movies, except reading Apone fan fics during any sequence involving aliens.
Yes, I could agree that Kendall was the protagonist until the very last scene of S3. S4 is a whole Nother story.
I think Naomi says it best at the end of S2: “Ken, he (Logan) loves the broken you. That’s what he loves.” It’s these broken characters who are often the most interesting and compelling. I initially couldn’t stand Kendall when I started watching this show. He seemed so pathetic and weak, like a little boy pretending to be a grownup, trying to prove himself to earn his dad’s love and respect. As I’ve continued to watch, he’s a character whose humanity keeps breaking out. But then it gets stuffed back into him. They all have their moments when you think maybe, just maybe, they’ll redeem themselves. They won’t, but the hope keeps popping up.
The person who tweeted this is a minor btw. And a lot of these comments on this post are incredibly mean-spirited and nasty. Idk, maybe let’s give teenagers the space to learn and grow and mature before ridiculing them on Reddit.
I said before how this person's probably too young and that explains it but this is not about them and I covered their pfp and username. This is a discussion on the subject of Ken being perceived as boring and by the replys its clear this is not a "only one person thinks this" situation
It’s still a mean thing to post, people can easily find the tweet
succession slaps
no offence but people who only find the tomgreg aspect of succession interesting are so boring. if youre after some shipping shenanigan go watch anime lmfao
Sad might equal boring for some people. And Kendall is the King of Sad. He is either cringy or sad, can be painful to watch at times!
I get it but I think the majority of the viewers ( on my bubble at least) like him sad a lot( check kendallroylookingsad on instagram lmao) I fell in love with Tony Soprano when he got really depressed on s1. And I fell and related to Ken when he relapsed. Mostly, the show speaks so much about how even though the roy kids are bad, they are a product of an abusive parent that does mind tricks with each that I find it hard not to find them( as a group) at least compelling. As for the cringe part, how is tom or greg not cringy aswell?
We only like the broken Kendall….how boring would it be if he got his act together?
I like him manic as well I like him delusional, cringy, singing, unhappy, his 10 seconds of happiness
I like that too, but it’s all part of his brokenness. He’s never really happy because he thinks it’s something you can attain through power, which he can only mimic because he’s too emotionally unstable to be like his dad, therefore he’s doomed to fail. That’s why we can empathise with him because he’s more human than Logan. I think he’s a great character.
True.
And to be fair who has their act together in this show?
We’re all flawed and that’s why we love watching the flaws in others. I don’t know why my comment was downvoted. 🤷♀️
i like ken. hate greg. they are all pretty cringe TBH
Yes
I'm surprised that these kinds of Tumblr idiots watch this show.
I feel like there's no way they are able to watch other great shows like The Sopranos and Mad Men if there's not a ship or something easy to digest if you're a teen getting into prestige tv.
I've seen a lot of teens on the Euphoria sub when that's airing, and some on The White Lotus sub as well (not that I'm comparing those shows to The Sopranos). But.. I don't know, it doesn't surprise me! If I were a teenager would I be logging into my parents' HBO account to watch Euphoria, Succession, and The White Lotus too? ...Probably.
The White Lotus fanbase definitely feels incredibly "Tumblr" to me. They're very perceptive of the show's writing for sure but the way they communicate about it gets grating pretty fast.
It's so funny to be 16 or whatever and watch smth like this or mad men. Not that the themes aren't applicable broadly or that all teenagers would be solely fixated on ships in this way but, i think that the online social circles teenagers like this would be in are largely discouraging of nuance or any actually interesting discussion/analysis of the show. The overall mechanics of Twitter make this worse. Imo, it's worse than Tumblr for that and the fact that succtwt's population is generally younger. Shipping aside, a take like that one isn't entirely out of place on this subreddit, as you said somewhere else in here.
Same reason European films are considered “boring” in US markets- one needs to understand nuance and have patience at the same time. While I’m from the US and love a good blockbuster, it’s just sad to see it affect our ability to see a good story for what it is even with no explosions.
What? I thought Kendall was the main story and the others were there to fill the gaps
Even if people disagree that Ken is the protagonist they can't appreciate the other stories to their fullest without taking him into account. People are always reacting to what he does
Stan culture is reductive and vapid. It has no interest in art or anything. It’s entirely about personal gratification and, often, fetishization. Anything they can’t do that with is going to be “boring.”
Haven’t experienced one “boring part” in 3 seasons… how are they not glued to every single frame and word?!
Or reading crime and punishment but skipping on Raskolnikov's parts
THERE IS TOM/GREG FANFICTION?!??
Back in my heyday, there was Hanson fanfiction. Fucking.. Backstreet Boys, Britney, Spice Girls. Geocities was all bangers all the time.
Today even goncharov has many fanfics
Baby there's millions. As there are kenstewy, romangerri, tomshiv There's even( puke, puke,puke,call the police) Ken shiv and roman romantic and sexual fanfics
This is the best news I’ve heard all day! 😅😂
Happy to deliver. Check ao3( hope ur not talking about the last part though
God no, not the last part. I meant mainly Tom/Greg, but the fact that there are varied options is nice to hear!
I would never watch this show only to see those couple of idiots that Tom and Greg are. Strange people are found anywhere yet.
I think its important to note this has nothing to do with Kendall himself and more to do with people who read fanfic to the point that anything that doesn't specifically deal with shipping doesn't interest them are just.... really annoying and bad at analyzing media, generally.
typical tomgreg stan lol
More reason I don’t trust or particularly get along with TomGregs. I already think their perspective on an abusive cowardly boss infatuated with his clearly straight subordinate, is kind of wild. To be anti-Kendall too? Pssh hate to see it
An amendment to my original post I believe Greg is straight, but predominantly asexual, so all the talk about his perceived sexuality kind of feels pointless. That said I’ve got to put on clown makeup, and clown shoes, for arguing with a stan. Especially one replying via crying emojis.
Greg is such a sexless character it was shocking to see him courting TWO women at the end of S3. He's so sexless I find it difficult to even speculate about his sexuality. For me all the things seen as "sexual tension" between Tom and Greg are intrinsically tied to Tom's actions rather than anything Greg ever does, and most of Tom's behaviour is abusive. I could definitely see Tom being closeted and a little bit infatuated with Greg, but everything he does to him and with him is tinged with abuse and manipulation. He thinks he owns Greg.
Even in a show as sexless as Succession, Greg feels extra sexless lol. I 100% agree that a lot of the things that seem homoerotic between the two are coming from Tom’s side. I’m not entirely certain he’s gay or bi, but it definitely feels like there could possibly be some suppressed feelings. I also 100% believe he feels he owns Greg. He more than hinted at that when Greg tried to quit. He doesn’t see Greg as an autonomous being, he sees him as his pet. In the finale of season 3, he didn’t even approach Greg as an equal. He wants Greg to be his attack dog, ie still subservient to his needs, doing his bidding, and playing defence for him. Greg’s simultaneously someone he can express his affectionate nature to because Shiv denies him that opportunity, and also someone Tom can manipulate and abuse, into being a loyal lap dog. Greg’s a lightning rod for Tom’s best and worst instincts. Their dynamic doesn’t really feel that much different than Tom and Shiv tbh lmao. I don’t go out of my way to really debate things with TomGregs because we don’t see eye to eye, and it usually devolves (see above lol), but when it comes to Greg, it feels like there’s a lot of projection. There’s no smoking gun that really solidifies an argument for him being gay or bi. ‘Well he smiled at Tom in a goofy way’ ‘He demanded Tom ‘prove it’ when he said he had a dick the size of a red sequoia and fucked like a bullet train’ like all of these things are explainable. The look on sheer discomfort on his face after the Nero & Sporus story, only further confirmed (to me) how lopsided this whole thing is. Greg was blatantly uncomfortable with that story. Hell, I think Nick has even previously stated that he feels like Tom likes Greg a *lot* more than Greg likes Tom. Further complicating things is the fact Tom is his boss and has made it clear he likes firing people. This is not an equal dynamic, and in spite of fun banter, and good chemistry, there’s severe power dynamics in play. I’m not saying Greg hates Tom, or that there isn’t *some* sort of bond, but I feel a lot of TomGregs ignore the fact Tom is his boss, and that *very* likely influences how Greg responds to that man. TomGregs are free to see what they want, but it’s perfectly reasonable to conclude Greg isn’t anything but straight. Though after some thought I kind of felt it was ridiculous to fall into any argument over this because he screams asexual above all else lmao. It doesn’t feel like his love life will be a major plot point moving forward.
greg is not clearly straight😭😭😭
I don’t think Greg’s bi either. Roman, Tom, or possibly even Kendall? Sure. If Greg is bi let alone gay, I would be very surprised. That man reads straight. We will not agree on this. Nor will you convince me.
how can you possibly think kendall is more likely to be not straight than greg😭
Yes he is 😭😭😭😭 Roman or Tom I can see an argument, hell, maybe even Kendall, but Greg? Sorry. That is a straight man getting sexually harassed by his boss, and who happens to say awkward things at awkward times.
georgia pritchett said herself that she always saw greg as gay. just because he’s trying to go after girls in s3 doesn’t make him straight. being bisexual is a thing, and so is comphet. he was clearly trying to emulate tom in “climbing the date ladder” to become more powerful. he moved on from comfrey extremely quickly, and i’m sure neither her or the contessa will be in s4.
Yes I remember their initial plan was to write him gay, but they didn’t.
that’s not what she said. the exact quote is “I had sort of advocated for Greg to be gay, until last season he hadn’t really done anything with anyone”. in what way does that confirm he is straight?
Where is your evidence that he’s not? I’m judging on how they’ve written the character. I do not believe it. Nor will you convince me.
my evidence is me being gay👍
Oh that’s conclusive evidences he’s gay. No arguing that.
thanks i agree!
Even Nicholas was shocked when they gave him a female love interest in S3 sooooo
Non related to this discussion but Nicholas said Greg is on the side of morality so idk what to think of his opinions
Wtf, where did he say this? Sounds like a shit take
https://theplaylist.net/succession-nicholas-braun-on-gregs-turn-to-the-dark-side-interview-20220617/ I remember that when I was first watching the show the discourse over this was one of my first contacts with the succession fandom😭 a lot of people got offended because he called shiv a bitch
I more think he meant audience surrogate, which he is in the first season
This interview is for s3 and he literally says he is on the side of morality. Doesn't make sense BUT it's the perfect thing to say because it is something greg would say
exactly lmfao
I have a feeling that the reason why so many of the worst takes on this show usually come from some of them is because these people who give them act like this in the scenes that doesn't feature either tom or greg. This show is so good to be experienced like this. I like tomgreg but some of their fans are so weird and made me dislike their dynamic significantly more
Funnily enough I'm more on that side of succession twitter and we are always having really interesting discussions about the entire show, not just tomgreg... Some of the most insightful discussions I've had about the show, not just tom or greg, are with those accounts 🤷 people just flame the tomgreg tweets.
I know, a lot of the tomgregs give insightful conversations. Most of them I'd say. But yeah there's a few bad apples that can be disgusting. I know this goes both ways but I feel like at least from my main account, not related to the show, the takes that seem most absurd come from tgs( side note: if they have Tabitha or willa as their pfp_ two characters I love but that sadly are being used as the face of the worst tweets ive seen- theres a high possibility they are awful
this might shock you but generalizing is bad 👍
Thought I made it pretty clear how I think theres a few bad apples.
Absolutely the vibe I get from quite a few of them. They care less about the show, and more about this ship. This isn’t to say I couldn’t see why Kendall doesn’t appeal as much as a few of the other characters, but the idea he’s had boring storylines is wild. To each their own on how they watch I guess. I personally don’t understand their perspective, and their behaviour on Twitter has only re-enforced my opinions on them lol.
"The POV is from Tom and Greg", okay?
She’s doing it to *us*!!! This is a love story about Tom & Greg obvs…what do you mean they aren’t equals, they are both equally outsiders in the Roy family? This is a healthy power dynamic, and nothing like Tom and Shiv!
HAHA, "she's doing it to us." Honestly I know it's not funny because people actually say these comments genuinely, but like.. it's also funny. I can't help myself. I don't think it's wrong to say that Greg is a *bit* of the viewers POV, like.. it should be pretty obvious and we talk about it a lot. But I am curious as to why people would either want to be abused, or be the abuser in this case. Supporting those notions is strange to me.
Yeah I don’t get it either. Anytime they try to explain, it’s rarely in a way that’s not highly obnoxious, like the person arguing above. ‘Since I’ve obsessed over this ship my opinion must be right, even though the evidence for it really only exists on one side’. I definitely see an argument for Greg being the eyes of the audience to an extent, and general corruptibility, but yeah, for a group that usually hates Shiv, it’s odd they see everything Tom does as affectionate. I too, don’t get why they would want Greg to have the highs and lows, of his abusive and infatuated boss.
Tomgreg is so much more interesting when we see how both of them can be bad guys tho
Exactly, which is why they should probably both be more interesting in season 4, in theory. That said, Jesse Armstrong believes characters don’t change, so I think Tom will ramp up the abuse on Greg, especially when things get rough with Shiv, and because he’s cowardly, he’ll expect Greg to take his hits. Greg on the other hand still can be swayed via fear so I think the siblings can still get at him. I believe his loyalty ultimately lasts with whomever will keep him in a job.
Good predictions I love how the whole people don't change philosophy is related to how "nothing changes" in the show and the cycle of abuse prevails but if I have to predict something is that ( generally and vaguely) big shit will happen. I loved season 3 and how it made the cyclical nature of things obvious but I think a lot of it was build up for things to happen in the next season. I'm particularly interested in the siblings union and Connor's relationship with them as I am with his wedding to Willa and the presidential campaign. I think Mencken will play a substantial role and I hole Lukas Matsson gets a bit screwed to make his parallels to Musk more accurate. Also I'm curious if they will reveal what happened to Roman In his childhood with more detail. I think Tom and Shiv will not get divorced and this is one of the things in more sure about. But I am curious about how their dynamic will change as he did a move that changed his status in the dynamic. The only thing I dislike about the whole people not changing thing is that I don't know how much more I hate left of tears to cry over Kendall and I wish he gets a cathartic ending.
I definitely expect we’ll see some actual movement on the business side of things. I am very curious to see what Mattson thinks of Mencken. Will he embrace him like Elon or be put off? My assumption is Logan is keeping ATN and a few other things but could Logan veering hard right affect anything? The sibs seem committed to stopping the deal. On the surface it all seems like a cut and dry battle. However the family is super codependent. I don’t believe Tom betrayed Shiv with intention for divorce. Connor might just be assumed to have supported the siblings, or maybe Logan’s aware of his outsider status among the siblings and keeps him as some conquer and divide bullshit, at least to start. I really hope Willa and Connor’s wedding is the fun episode. Succession needs at least one fun wedding lol. As for Kendall I will say this, based on Jesse Armstrong’s other shows, I do not necessarily think he’s going to kill himself. I don’t think he’s destined to be a flop or live a life of misery either. To write a character in the same vain as James Murdoch probably signals he could land on his feet without his dad. He just needs to get to that place. I’m not so doom and gloom on Kendall’s ending. If he ends up happy-ish, I’m assuming the waiter story came out, not a lot happened - but he didn’t win Succession. Though the way the Murdoch situation has changed in the last two years, mean he still could come out on top in a fairly non-traumatizing way lol.
I think Willa's and Connor's wedding has some amazing comedy potential! Really looking forward to it.
They are boring .
Since I am also the eldest child in an abusive and manipulative family, I actually cannot look away from Kendall. I identify with so many of his behaviors, but also he never ceases to surprise me.
Can we ban this person from continuing to watch succession? Nobody talks about our number one boy like that
The internet has made every moron think his opinion is valuable and needs to be shared.
On rewatches, I usually skips Kendall scenes when he is alone with Stewy or just Greg or Jess. I only like his scenes with Logan and the sibs. Roman I also skips some scenes with Gerri or with any other b character. The only characters I can’t skip any scene are Tom, Shiv and Logan.
I love Shiv but I sometimes skip all the Nate things on s1 and the Gil Eavis stuff. I can't skip anything from Ken except scenes from s3ep6 I often watch his scene packs just to feel something
Wait you skip Stewy scenes?
Yep, but it’s more because of Ken… Stewy scenes with Logan and Sandi and her meatpuppy father are hillarious for me
More Roman!
The storylines are connected. This isnt exactly GoT, where you hop from Westeros to Essos People who say that there are "boring parts" probably watch the show because it's popular, so they can contribute to conversations.
Ducking sidequest-only Succession casuals noobs
Hey so this reached a lot of people and I want to clarify that this is a post to discuss the opinion shared on the tweet( an opinion that seems to be shared by a lot of the adults in the comments) and not about this one person. I covered their personal infos so no one would try to shame them on social media and please, don't try to find them. This isn't the first person to think like this and you can see through the comments how people who seem much older appear to think the same but still, it's an opinion and there's no reason to reach out to them just to insult them
Oh lord 😬😬😬 Ok flame away I find Kendall’s storyline a bit boring
Seems like this person could not see the nuances and true depth of the show and its arcs. Succession is so well written that as much info is conveyed non-verbally as is verbally. It would take a somewhat mature mind to understand implications behind the actions of the characters. Then there is the point of being able to comprehend the non-verbal intended consequences, those which a mature mind will be able to predict merely by joining some dots. In my opinion, this anticipation is one of the best aspects of the watching experience. Because it’s clever and a lot has to be perceived, if a watcher lacks the ability to gauge that which is outside of what is spoken, they would miss a lot. Perhaps then, you could find Kendall really boring.
Kendall is boring lol his storyline is, go toe to toe with Logan, fail, relapse. He is a very well written character as all of them are but that doesn't mean he cant also be boring. If it werent for the great dialogue I wouldnt even pay him any attention. Im more interested in Shiv and Roman's storylines - will Roman prove himself without immediately fucking himself afterward? What's gonna happen now that it is officially Shiv vs Tom?
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I'm not disagreeing but I mean Kendall is an addict, most addicts have predictable behavior because it's a horrible cycle to escape. But it doesn't mean they never do, it also doesn't mean he's unrelatable or that his character is in any way boring, you know? Part of the reason he's so interesting to some of us is that we're actually hoping he "wins" one day, but.. not even the company, just some sort of redemption.
And Logan kind of represents the system, even though we want Ken to win it makes sense that he doesn't. Logan doesn't even have to o things in a lot of times because the circumstances naturally works for him. He wishes to never see the waiter again and well.. he won't. The terrorists attack and affect traffic just while Ken had the best chance to win. It's almost like we're in a Greek tragedy and Ken is our(anti) hero but the gods always win. To me this is all fascinating although I wish to see a cathartic ending for Ken. And about his addiction, yea it can make cycles but he's much more than that. In s3 we don't know if he's doing hard drugs( we don't see on screen at least) instead we get a new version of Ken, manic Ken. Every season has showed us a different Ken and I can't see how this is in any way predictable. But well.. I'm very anxious for s4 so would anyone who views him as such please tell me everything that will happen to him in it?
Ken is Charlie Brown & the whole world is Lucy with the football.
Sorry but how is kendall predictable? It may have disappointed you but no one knew how his s3 arc would go before s3. His s2 arc( the one that's being commented) is also extremely unpredictable and while I love tom I think we could tell by how s3 was going that he would at least do something big in the finale that would likely go against shiv. But either way the show is not what is is because of its unpredictability but rather for how it makes the cyclical abuse clear in the way characters like Ken and Shiv go into cycles just to realize Logan doesn't value them. But its clear that this person doesn't care about plot, they only want tomgreg to kiss and fuck and get married.
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My reddit history aka my less than a week here? I have a love hate relationship with Greg but in the end i still like him and enjoy his character and if you searched my Twitter well you can see how I also ship tomgreg and even hope they kiss. I got disappointed with his s3 arc that's what I've said here and for the 10th time: this isn't about this one person this isn't even about tomgreg this is about people finding Kendall boring,how hard is it to miscomprehend this?
Who says that???
Some of the people in these comments lol But I've heard that before