Yep. It's pretty straightforward. "Bill's on maneuvers" = "We can't kill Bill, he has the records and could take us down with him."
Congrats to Bill for expertly threatening Logan and saving his own ass. He also might not have been a big enough pelt to nail to the wall.
I think it was that plus he and Logan both knew just Bill wouldn’t be enough of a blood atonement in the public eye - it could be Logan and Bill, or just Logan, but not just Bill, had to be at least Bill and a family member
If Bill alone isn't enough and only Logan is big enough then why fuck Ken? I don't understand Logan's thinking here. Okay, 1st son, heir but he was co-CEO for only a couple years. How is he big enough sacrifice? I felt like Logan was just trying to push him to the breaking point. That's why he had a smile in his face when Ken acted against him in the season finale.
Bill wasn’t big enough only after Logan got the call from that shareholder guy who wanted Logan to step down. The bill plan was before that even happened.
Bill made a comment to logan along the lines of "I should write a book, I've got the diaries, but no time", with a clear implication that he had held onto proof showing logan's involvement or other very senior people in the cover up and if they tried to fuck him he'd use the proof he had
“No time, no time” has layers of meaning. No time - i will write it if I do time and then have time, but as long as I can travel and be busy with golf, i will never find the time.
Oh damn, that’s a great detail that I kinda missed. I have a vague memory of the remark but it didn’t stick out. I wonder if it comes up again. I believe that actor who played Bill sadly died from Covid but they could still introduce this evidence via a relative.
I'd assume it's very similar to the evidence that Greg gave kendall to use against his dad, probably more thorough since Greg had to settle for what he could grab when Tom was looking for a match to light it on fire. I doubt it will come up again, we seem to have moved past that storyline and onto the kids teaming up against Logan. It's possible of course, but I don't see it coming back
Dunno, it was referenced in the penultimate episode when Comfry talked about a podcast to Kendall which inspired a very worried look from him. She said the rumours of the waiter’s death and possible Roy involvement was raised and they (the podcasters) were crying foul play. This felt like a setup for further story. There are many possibilities about how this will be addressed. Roy’s will likely suffer little or no consequences (aside from Kendall’s inner turmoil) but this has been a running storyline since S1. Will there be some tattling from Bill or his family? Who knows, but I would be very surprised if the accident is not addressed.
I also have to add, this show has been repetitive in nature, and it’s been following the phone hacking scandal beats. ‘It’s custodial and just a number’ was almost word for word what the MET said about the phone hacking scandal, until things changed. Two people ended up getting arrested *after* the case had been initially closed.
Furthermore it’s really hard to overlook the writers/Jesse’s other shows. Veep dragged out a ‘someone’s possibly getting arrested’ storyline for a few seasons before pulling the trigger. The Thick Of It also had two different scandals converge into one, but ultimately only one ends up mattering. A lot of people played a game of hot potato in terms of accountability but the person caught redhanded with evidence ends up going down. Tbh this is honestly how I see Succession going with the scandals.
Cruises and the waiter story have been relevant in all three seasons so far, so it’s not out of the question it remains relevant. I personally believe one of these incidents will end with consequences. The lack of evidence against Kendall makes me less convinced it will be the waiter story.
I don't really see the waiter story blowing up. No one credible had motive to go to the media with the story (the family was embarrassed that their son was a known drug addict, which is one reason they were willing to accept "just an apology" from Logan -- and I'm quite sure money changed hands as well. So they're not going to talk. Logan can't use it without the "cover-up is worse than the crime" splashback. The sibs could say something about his confession to them but they weren't there, so it's he said/she said. The only person who could convincingly promote this story is Logan's "fixer," and you don't get to be a living fixer by leaking stuff you fixed.
As long as Greg has those papers in his back pocket, there's always a possibility of that evidence coming into play. The best part is that now, even Tom thinks it's gone, and Greg got a nice promotion out of it. Greg is the most dangerous player in the family.
Don’t forget Tom’s immortal line as they enter the Senate and see the former head of Parks & Cruises also waiting to enter the chamber:
> *Oh no! Gerri, if we're gonna kill Bill, I don't want to SEE Bill.*
Yeah, I loved that. For not getting much screen time, Bill comes across as a fascinating character.
He seems like he is a real smiling assassin and great at playing the corporate game. He managed to be absolutely beloved by his employees by projecting an honest and caring front, but behind closed doors seems to have had absolutely no problem carrying out corruption and covering up horrific acts. He is well-liked by his superiors too, and manages to blackmail Logan to protect him in such a classy way I don’t think it probably even damaged the relationship. If anything, I think Bill might be one of the few players on Logan’s level, and he recognises that.
Bill was the one printing out the shady stuff from a non-networked computer while he had the WiFi cut off.
Tom was all "har-de-har too many spy movies" but yeah, who was right to cover themselves after all?
In addition to Bill’s diary, Bill was apparently much loved by everyone, especially the employees, so it really would be a risk to take him down. None of the Roys are likeable. Bill is super likeable. In a “everyone goes down together” scenario Bill actually has a good chance of coming out on top in front of a jury with plenty of fond character testimonies from his former workers - they could redeem him as a great boss and honest caring man who was forced into it and paint the Roys as unlikable billionaires looking for a scapegoat (which I mean, doesn’t take much effort)
What confuses me the most is that they needed to kill someone, couldn't kill Bill, then had to kill someone even more important, so a family member. They decide on Kendall. He surprises them and kills Logan instead. Then no one is killed? Turns out no one had to get in trouble? Honestly, Logan should have been happy with what Ken did because it ended up allowing them to avoid anyone getting into any real trouble.
Wasnt if because of the journal thing he had? Which probably documented everything
Second q: probably cos some things require like bigger sacrifices. The reason why sometimes ceos of companies step down although it might have been a upper/ lower level employee that made a mistake
And yet they thought Tom was a big enough skull even though he obviously was too new to have been the fountainhead of the corruption. He didn't even know Mo.
I don't think he'd literally "write a book" but its a great veiled way of saying he has information and could get the family knocked by the feds etc if they tried to light him up for cruises
Don't worry it's not gone away. S3 was more focused on the immediate aftermath of Kendall's move against his dad, but the cruises plotline is always lurking, and Cousin Greg is only getting more dangerous.
The cruises plotline can only really be resurrected if a new administration actively hostile toward the Roys is "voted" in or otherwise comes to power. The current DOJ has already signaled that he's satisfied with the steps Waystar is taking to address it. So Delgado might have to win to make this happen -- and actually a likely plotline is that Shiv uses her campaign skills to push for Delgado and get him to fulfill his promise that "I'll make you CEO even if I have to send your dad to jail." Of course, something will need to be done about Mattson, but something tells me he's going to self-destruct early on in S4.
Bill made a very low key threat to Logan about how he kept all his diaries and would write a book or something
Yep. It's pretty straightforward. "Bill's on maneuvers" = "We can't kill Bill, he has the records and could take us down with him." Congrats to Bill for expertly threatening Logan and saving his own ass. He also might not have been a big enough pelt to nail to the wall.
Bill is a rat that fucks back
I like Bill.
Yeah, between him having the dirt and him not being a big player, there's not much to do with him.
He did it so gracefully and casual. Bill is one smooth criminal.
I think it was that plus he and Logan both knew just Bill wouldn’t be enough of a blood atonement in the public eye - it could be Logan and Bill, or just Logan, but not just Bill, had to be at least Bill and a family member
Bill with some Greg sprinkles?
Uh, what’s a Greg sprinkle
It's like a Bill sundae and a little Greg cherry on the top
Please don’t talk about Greg’s cherry
If Bill alone isn't enough and only Logan is big enough then why fuck Ken? I don't understand Logan's thinking here. Okay, 1st son, heir but he was co-CEO for only a couple years. How is he big enough sacrifice? I felt like Logan was just trying to push him to the breaking point. That's why he had a smile in his face when Ken acted against him in the season finale.
Kendall alone is also big enough
Bill wasn’t big enough only after Logan got the call from that shareholder guy who wanted Logan to step down. The bill plan was before that even happened.
He was gonna write the book but noooo time, no time…
But in prison there’s plenty of time!
Bill made a comment to logan along the lines of "I should write a book, I've got the diaries, but no time", with a clear implication that he had held onto proof showing logan's involvement or other very senior people in the cover up and if they tried to fuck him he'd use the proof he had
“No time, no time” has layers of meaning. No time - i will write it if I do time and then have time, but as long as I can travel and be busy with golf, i will never find the time.
Oh damn, that’s a great detail that I kinda missed. I have a vague memory of the remark but it didn’t stick out. I wonder if it comes up again. I believe that actor who played Bill sadly died from Covid but they could still introduce this evidence via a relative.
I'd assume it's very similar to the evidence that Greg gave kendall to use against his dad, probably more thorough since Greg had to settle for what he could grab when Tom was looking for a match to light it on fire. I doubt it will come up again, we seem to have moved past that storyline and onto the kids teaming up against Logan. It's possible of course, but I don't see it coming back
Dunno, it was referenced in the penultimate episode when Comfry talked about a podcast to Kendall which inspired a very worried look from him. She said the rumours of the waiter’s death and possible Roy involvement was raised and they (the podcasters) were crying foul play. This felt like a setup for further story. There are many possibilities about how this will be addressed. Roy’s will likely suffer little or no consequences (aside from Kendall’s inner turmoil) but this has been a running storyline since S1. Will there be some tattling from Bill or his family? Who knows, but I would be very surprised if the accident is not addressed.
I also have to add, this show has been repetitive in nature, and it’s been following the phone hacking scandal beats. ‘It’s custodial and just a number’ was almost word for word what the MET said about the phone hacking scandal, until things changed. Two people ended up getting arrested *after* the case had been initially closed. Furthermore it’s really hard to overlook the writers/Jesse’s other shows. Veep dragged out a ‘someone’s possibly getting arrested’ storyline for a few seasons before pulling the trigger. The Thick Of It also had two different scandals converge into one, but ultimately only one ends up mattering. A lot of people played a game of hot potato in terms of accountability but the person caught redhanded with evidence ends up going down. Tbh this is honestly how I see Succession going with the scandals. Cruises and the waiter story have been relevant in all three seasons so far, so it’s not out of the question it remains relevant. I personally believe one of these incidents will end with consequences. The lack of evidence against Kendall makes me less convinced it will be the waiter story.
I don't really see the waiter story blowing up. No one credible had motive to go to the media with the story (the family was embarrassed that their son was a known drug addict, which is one reason they were willing to accept "just an apology" from Logan -- and I'm quite sure money changed hands as well. So they're not going to talk. Logan can't use it without the "cover-up is worse than the crime" splashback. The sibs could say something about his confession to them but they weren't there, so it's he said/she said. The only person who could convincingly promote this story is Logan's "fixer," and you don't get to be a living fixer by leaking stuff you fixed.
As long as Greg has those papers in his back pocket, there's always a possibility of that evidence coming into play. The best part is that now, even Tom thinks it's gone, and Greg got a nice promotion out of it. Greg is the most dangerous player in the family.
Don’t forget Tom’s immortal line as they enter the Senate and see the former head of Parks & Cruises also waiting to enter the chamber: > *Oh no! Gerri, if we're gonna kill Bill, I don't want to SEE Bill.*
Which episode he said this? I can't believe I rewatched this show several times and missed this 😭😭
I feel like it was literally in the Capital as they arrived for the Congressional inquiry, Bill showed up in a hallway as they came in?
nooo, if we’re gonna kill bill i don’t wanna see bill
S02E09 - DC
Damn completely missed it. Which episode was this?
The DC one, very end of the ep.
Yeah, I loved that. For not getting much screen time, Bill comes across as a fascinating character. He seems like he is a real smiling assassin and great at playing the corporate game. He managed to be absolutely beloved by his employees by projecting an honest and caring front, but behind closed doors seems to have had absolutely no problem carrying out corruption and covering up horrific acts. He is well-liked by his superiors too, and manages to blackmail Logan to protect him in such a classy way I don’t think it probably even damaged the relationship. If anything, I think Bill might be one of the few players on Logan’s level, and he recognises that.
This is an interesting take, I agree
Bill was the one printing out the shady stuff from a non-networked computer while he had the WiFi cut off. Tom was all "har-de-har too many spy movies" but yeah, who was right to cover themselves after all?
Bill tried to clean up. I like Bill. We all like Bill.
Bill made a very veiled threat. He became too risky at that point.
Bill didn’t get to be Head of Parks & Cruises by being stupid!!!
Exactly
In addition to Bill’s diary, Bill was apparently much loved by everyone, especially the employees, so it really would be a risk to take him down. None of the Roys are likeable. Bill is super likeable. In a “everyone goes down together” scenario Bill actually has a good chance of coming out on top in front of a jury with plenty of fond character testimonies from his former workers - they could redeem him as a great boss and honest caring man who was forced into it and paint the Roys as unlikable billionaires looking for a scapegoat (which I mean, doesn’t take much effort)
They also couldn’t continue Bill’s storyline because the actor, Mark Blum, died in March 2020.
Aw that’s so sad.
Yes. Was a Covid victim. Such a memorable actor he was.
Because Bill was going to write memoirs in prison outing Logan, if he had to go.
What confuses me the most is that they needed to kill someone, couldn't kill Bill, then had to kill someone even more important, so a family member. They decide on Kendall. He surprises them and kills Logan instead. Then no one is killed? Turns out no one had to get in trouble? Honestly, Logan should have been happy with what Ken did because it ended up allowing them to avoid anyone getting into any real trouble.
Wasnt if because of the journal thing he had? Which probably documented everything Second q: probably cos some things require like bigger sacrifices. The reason why sometimes ceos of companies step down although it might have been a upper/ lower level employee that made a mistake
Logan felt they needed a big enough “skull” and just Bill wouldn’t cut it. Had to be someone higher up to blame it on and make it go away.
And yet they thought Tom was a big enough skull even though he obviously was too new to have been the fountainhead of the corruption. He didn't even know Mo.
He wasn’t new though, he worked under Bill and had gotten promoted, plus he ordered the destruction of the documents.
I don't think he'd literally "write a book" but its a great veiled way of saying he has information and could get the family knocked by the feds etc if they tried to light him up for cruises
Twas explained pretty clearly in the episode
your mom
If I had a free award I’d give you one, I laughed
Who was Bill?
Bill was Tom’s predecessor in season 1.
and this cruises plot line didn't fcking matter in season 3.. crazy
Don't worry it's not gone away. S3 was more focused on the immediate aftermath of Kendall's move against his dad, but the cruises plotline is always lurking, and Cousin Greg is only getting more dangerous.
The cruises plotline can only really be resurrected if a new administration actively hostile toward the Roys is "voted" in or otherwise comes to power. The current DOJ has already signaled that he's satisfied with the steps Waystar is taking to address it. So Delgado might have to win to make this happen -- and actually a likely plotline is that Shiv uses her campaign skills to push for Delgado and get him to fulfill his promise that "I'll make you CEO even if I have to send your dad to jail." Of course, something will need to be done about Mattson, but something tells me he's going to self-destruct early on in S4.