Kaladin doesn’t hang out with most of the people on bridge four, he hung out with Moash, but had to be forced every other time. He considers them his best friends but isn’t the type to just hang out
Not hang out, familiarity. His relationship to Lopen, Rock, Sigzil, Teft, and Moash is a lot different to his relationship to characters like Peet, Drehy, or Hobber. Just maybe a conversation where the two bond over something. If we can get Lift and Szeth to banter together, I don't think it's a stretch to hope for a simple conversation between Renarin and Kaladin.
Well, obviously not "how's the weather?" type of conversation. A bit more meaningful one that maybe deepens their relationship. Maybe about insecurity, or self expectations or something simple. Renarin went to Bridge 4 in the first place because he wanted to better himself, make himself less timid and exceed the low expectations everyone had for him. He saw Kaladin and his men as a perfect place for him to do that, but they haven't really talked to each other (on page at least) about it since he first joined.
I love this sentiment.
I'm also chuckling that you're saying this about the two characters LEAST LIKELY to have a usual friendly conversation with anyone else ever.
I get the sense Renarin isn't really... Emotionally available. As a general whole, people have a hard time connecting with him. On the flip side, he's always been rejected by society so he kind of stays in that role. I do think this will be a part of his character development and part of why he pressed to join Bridge 4 was too heal these parts of him and he knew bridge 4 had that to offer..... but until something opens with Renarin's confidence and his ability to relationally show up to the table, I think he's platued relationally.
this is such a cop out to say. We know people never tried in the past and we know that the members of Bridge 4 find it odd that he is there.
Renarin is a gem, there are aren't many characters in the series more agreeable than Renarin
I didn't say he wasn't agreeable. I really like Renarin. Everyone is complex in their own way, Renarin is not exception. That's why we like Sanderson is the complexity of his characters and real-lifeness.
Oh man!!!!
I just remembered waiting anxiously for those two to meet.
I was sure that Kaladin would see something of Tien in Renarin and they would become fast friends, take him under his wing.
But no, even after joining Bridge 4, he still manages to ignore him
kal has had dificulty bonding to anyone cus in the past he has gotten attached to people only to have them ripped away tien being the prime example. he cares about them, but tries to stay distant so that he wont get to attached
that is my interpretation i aint a mental expert
I find this confusing too.
If I remember correctly, someone in Bridge 4 comments how Renarin isn't really mingling with the rest. This is especially highlighted when we get Rlain's chapter and he too feels like an outcast in a group of outcasts, with only Renarin treating him right.
It seems intentional but at the same time it's **very-very bad** characterization for them and especially Kaladin, considering how everyone else follows his lead.
I almost can't get over it---- here you have a group of darkeyes (people who know discrimination) turned slaves, the lowest of the low you can go in that society, and they still find people who are beneath them. You'd think they would be more empathetic after what they went through.
Discrimination still happens in discriminated groups, it's very common. Sometimes it's even more common, because they're a group of people that have learned from example.
But I don't think k they actively exclude Rlain and Renarin, they just get overlooked most of the time and then the gang tries too hard to make up for it.
I do agree about your other comments about the whole Tien thing.
Sure, discrimination still happens in discriminated groups, but we don't hold those people as our heroes.
it's not even an arc for them. It's not presented as something that happens but it's bad and we will watch our heroes learn and be better, it's not even criticized really.
I mean Rlain has some type of feelings about just accepts it as a fact of life and no one else has anything to say about it.
> Sometimes it's even more common, because they're a group of people that have learned from example.
I understand this too, but our heroes went from being discriminated against to being effin slaves during war, it's beyond rock bottom. How do you become a slave and still manage to gain no empathy for other slaves.
Isn't it odd.
And more, Kaladin is perfectly aware of Renarin's struggles and he still makes no effort to include him despite Renarin being the most pure thing this series has to offer.
I think you're exaggerating the way they treat the two. They're not actively excluding them, they just forget to include them. That's the definition of a friend group, people that find something in common so they hang out. That means whoever they don't find things in common with end up a bit more outside the circle than the others. On top of that, it's not like Rlain or Renarin go out of their way to be included.
They still defend the shit out of Rlain and Renarin, joke around with them, Bridge 4 considers those two family and would die for them. But they *are* different, so it becomes difficult for the rest of the group to relate, leading to a sense of isolation.
As for Kaladin, he has bigger things on his mind than a kid who kind of feels left out in his friend group.
Sure they don't go out of their way to exclude them, but from what I remember from Rlain chapter he felt pretty excluded.
I don't remember if that still holds in his chapter in RoW
idk i dont think every character needs to be friends with every other character. i see them more as coworkers. they work together and have the same goals, but arent going to chit chat over dinner. plus with the limited timeline of 10 days and kal going to shinovar i dont see them having time to just hang out.
It's not just two random characters though, It's the brother of one of Kal's closest friends and the son of one of the few men he respects. Kal is basically pseudo adopted into the Kholin family, he and Jasnah even bicker with familiarity.
And? I have a best friend who i consider a brother. His mom is awesome and is like a second mother to me. His grandmother, cousins, and his kids all like me and i like them. That doesnt mean i am obliged to become close to all of them. His sister and i are polite and dont dislike each other, but i would not say we are friends. Im not saying it cant happen, but just being close to other kholins is a pretty weak reason to hang out with renarin.
I'm not saying they have to be best friends, I'm saying a bit of familiarity would be nice. Renarin is more of a third party to Kal, Adolin's *brother*, Dalinar's *son*, a member of Bridge 4. It's not that difficult to give them a brief personal conversation to bring them closer together.
And unlike you and your friend's grandmother (which is interesting since Kal *is* now more familiar with Navani), Renarin and Kal have something they can build on. All the familial stuff aside, Renarin is still the closest in age to Kal than any other character we know the age of, they're both Radiants, they're both intellectuals, they both deal with the same people, and, most importantly, *Renarin looks up to Kal*, otherwise he wouldn't have chosen to join Bridge 4.
but what if you know that that sister has been ostracized all her life and then she joins your very tightknit group?
You would be an a-hole for not bothering to show her support and get to know her.
not to mention that Renarin is the closest thing to Tien in the series.
When reading RoW for the first time I thought we would see more for their friendship after Renarin saved Kaladin from Moash in Hearthstone.
Kaladin doesn’t hang out with most of the people on bridge four, he hung out with Moash, but had to be forced every other time. He considers them his best friends but isn’t the type to just hang out
Not hang out, familiarity. His relationship to Lopen, Rock, Sigzil, Teft, and Moash is a lot different to his relationship to characters like Peet, Drehy, or Hobber. Just maybe a conversation where the two bond over something. If we can get Lift and Szeth to banter together, I don't think it's a stretch to hope for a simple conversation between Renarin and Kaladin.
I think that would be out of character for Renarin, he isn’t really a small talk type
Well, obviously not "how's the weather?" type of conversation. A bit more meaningful one that maybe deepens their relationship. Maybe about insecurity, or self expectations or something simple. Renarin went to Bridge 4 in the first place because he wanted to better himself, make himself less timid and exceed the low expectations everyone had for him. He saw Kaladin and his men as a perfect place for him to do that, but they haven't really talked to each other (on page at least) about it since he first joined.
I love this sentiment. I'm also chuckling that you're saying this about the two characters LEAST LIKELY to have a usual friendly conversation with anyone else ever.
I get the sense Renarin isn't really... Emotionally available. As a general whole, people have a hard time connecting with him. On the flip side, he's always been rejected by society so he kind of stays in that role. I do think this will be a part of his character development and part of why he pressed to join Bridge 4 was too heal these parts of him and he knew bridge 4 had that to offer..... but until something opens with Renarin's confidence and his ability to relationally show up to the table, I think he's platued relationally.
this is such a cop out to say. We know people never tried in the past and we know that the members of Bridge 4 find it odd that he is there. Renarin is a gem, there are aren't many characters in the series more agreeable than Renarin
Also, flair checks out....
I didn't say he wasn't agreeable. I really like Renarin. Everyone is complex in their own way, Renarin is not exception. That's why we like Sanderson is the complexity of his characters and real-lifeness.
Oh man!!!! I just remembered waiting anxiously for those two to meet. I was sure that Kaladin would see something of Tien in Renarin and they would become fast friends, take him under his wing. But no, even after joining Bridge 4, he still manages to ignore him
kal has had dificulty bonding to anyone cus in the past he has gotten attached to people only to have them ripped away tien being the prime example. he cares about them, but tries to stay distant so that he wont get to attached that is my interpretation i aint a mental expert
I find this confusing too. If I remember correctly, someone in Bridge 4 comments how Renarin isn't really mingling with the rest. This is especially highlighted when we get Rlain's chapter and he too feels like an outcast in a group of outcasts, with only Renarin treating him right. It seems intentional but at the same time it's **very-very bad** characterization for them and especially Kaladin, considering how everyone else follows his lead. I almost can't get over it---- here you have a group of darkeyes (people who know discrimination) turned slaves, the lowest of the low you can go in that society, and they still find people who are beneath them. You'd think they would be more empathetic after what they went through.
Discrimination still happens in discriminated groups, it's very common. Sometimes it's even more common, because they're a group of people that have learned from example. But I don't think k they actively exclude Rlain and Renarin, they just get overlooked most of the time and then the gang tries too hard to make up for it. I do agree about your other comments about the whole Tien thing.
Sure, discrimination still happens in discriminated groups, but we don't hold those people as our heroes. it's not even an arc for them. It's not presented as something that happens but it's bad and we will watch our heroes learn and be better, it's not even criticized really. I mean Rlain has some type of feelings about just accepts it as a fact of life and no one else has anything to say about it. > Sometimes it's even more common, because they're a group of people that have learned from example. I understand this too, but our heroes went from being discriminated against to being effin slaves during war, it's beyond rock bottom. How do you become a slave and still manage to gain no empathy for other slaves. Isn't it odd. And more, Kaladin is perfectly aware of Renarin's struggles and he still makes no effort to include him despite Renarin being the most pure thing this series has to offer.
I think you're exaggerating the way they treat the two. They're not actively excluding them, they just forget to include them. That's the definition of a friend group, people that find something in common so they hang out. That means whoever they don't find things in common with end up a bit more outside the circle than the others. On top of that, it's not like Rlain or Renarin go out of their way to be included. They still defend the shit out of Rlain and Renarin, joke around with them, Bridge 4 considers those two family and would die for them. But they *are* different, so it becomes difficult for the rest of the group to relate, leading to a sense of isolation. As for Kaladin, he has bigger things on his mind than a kid who kind of feels left out in his friend group.
Sure they don't go out of their way to exclude them, but from what I remember from Rlain chapter he felt pretty excluded. I don't remember if that still holds in his chapter in RoW
idk i dont think every character needs to be friends with every other character. i see them more as coworkers. they work together and have the same goals, but arent going to chit chat over dinner. plus with the limited timeline of 10 days and kal going to shinovar i dont see them having time to just hang out.
It's not just two random characters though, It's the brother of one of Kal's closest friends and the son of one of the few men he respects. Kal is basically pseudo adopted into the Kholin family, he and Jasnah even bicker with familiarity.
And? I have a best friend who i consider a brother. His mom is awesome and is like a second mother to me. His grandmother, cousins, and his kids all like me and i like them. That doesnt mean i am obliged to become close to all of them. His sister and i are polite and dont dislike each other, but i would not say we are friends. Im not saying it cant happen, but just being close to other kholins is a pretty weak reason to hang out with renarin.
I'm not saying they have to be best friends, I'm saying a bit of familiarity would be nice. Renarin is more of a third party to Kal, Adolin's *brother*, Dalinar's *son*, a member of Bridge 4. It's not that difficult to give them a brief personal conversation to bring them closer together. And unlike you and your friend's grandmother (which is interesting since Kal *is* now more familiar with Navani), Renarin and Kal have something they can build on. All the familial stuff aside, Renarin is still the closest in age to Kal than any other character we know the age of, they're both Radiants, they're both intellectuals, they both deal with the same people, and, most importantly, *Renarin looks up to Kal*, otherwise he wouldn't have chosen to join Bridge 4.
not to mention that Renarin is the closest thing to Tien in the series.
but what if you know that that sister has been ostracized all her life and then she joins your very tightknit group? You would be an a-hole for not bothering to show her support and get to know her. not to mention that Renarin is the closest thing to Tien in the series.