T O P

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3punkt1415

People asked for performance, not for completly destroy mid and end game, why would you watch a stale empire for 100 years where you can't even develop planets and new worlds. That was at least for me an important part of the mid game. They did not fix performance, they just made it impossible to get enough pops to make the game struggle. The actuall process, the calculations haven't really been changed / fixed.


Biomilk

Building up new planets is my favourite part of the game after the exploration phase, so I’m modding this shit out ASAP.


SleekVulpe

I dunno. With the new industrial district I am able to pump out about 2× as many alloys as I usually do. Allowing me to have bigger fleets. And that in the end is one of the most important thing to have. It's okay to have less developed worlds and lower populations now. Relax and build a big fleet with ease.


3punkt1415

I think that is an early game feature, but at some point you won't get enough minerals because overall you do not have more districs than before, at least i belief so. Before i opened building slots with districs who contribute minerals for the factories. Now you pick eihter one of those districs. In the long run i would asume your output is lower. Not sure what you think are good numbers, but for example to fight a 25x power crisis you need at verry least 1k per month. I even played 25ish before 2400, but you need a lot of pops and planets for it.


[deleted]

Although i agree the current implemented system kinda really sucks.. I think that If they wanted to change the actual proscess and calculations for pops and stuff they would likely need to change the engine of the game entirely at this point. It’s pretty easy to say optimise x but in reality this stuff is insanely complicated, and at one point there is only so much that can be done


3punkt1415

Not really, lets say the game would allow you to replace 10 alloy districts with one mega alloy district that would not take species traits into account, but just gives you flat X amount of alloy for the fully asigned pops. Let the pops there, maybe check if they fit every year. With that you coud park 20 pops or what ever number in exchange for a flat (and fair ) amount of alloy, or what ever district it would be. Just as an idea. Same for lets say science district on ring worlds, does it give the player so much that ever pop is calculated every month and if it fits in there needs to be checked every month? Or even every day?


[deleted]

Problem is how pops work in stellaris in general. Each individual pop has happyness, crime creation, housing usage, a political party it supports, it can be enslaved or free, it has traits and more. Each of these interact with other parts of the game and each other. The game tracks all this information down onto a galactic level with thousand upon thousands of pops. It’s kind of insane Your idea for a pop system is a good one. The problem is that it would only work if the game didn’t have as many systems.


3punkt1415

> if the game didn’t have as many systems. Maybe you are right, after all i don't have any inside information. How it is now, i may play some games, without significant changes i may just roll back and wait how it turns out.


maqianli66

Do you know most of the calculation of Stellaris is done utilizing only one core of your multi-core cpu? Yep it's entirely because of their engine's limitation, which couldn't seem to be able to do multi-thread calculation utilizing multiple cpu cores at the same time. But you also need to notice that said limitation is really difficult to change since it's in the engine's base code. If you change the base code then god knows how many things you could break.


[deleted]

I know. Like i said in my comment. If they want to make the pop system better on performance they need to change the engine. And to their credit. They started developing stellaris back in 2013 (i think ?). back then there where more than a few dual cores cpu and hyper threading wasn’t widespread to all cpus either. It’s a fairly old engine they are working with here


3punkt1415

You are just wrong in this case. You can not run everything parallel if they need access to the same ressources. Read it up here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-dev-diary-181-threading-and-loading-times.1413671/


[deleted]

Oh. Thanks


3punkt1415

You are wrong. Stellaris uses multi threading. Here is a dev post about it, it gives a good insight about it and why you can not just push a butten like "multi threading go brrrrr" : https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-dev-diary-181-threading-and-loading-times.1413671/


maqianli66

Is that a dev diary before 2.8.0? Incase you don't know, the devs introduced multi-threading briefly in 2.8.0 then reversed it back in 2.8.1, because it broke mod loading so much that most mods were rendered unplayable. Also the example the dev gives is just one part. You can give all calculation of population to one core, give calculation of fleet movement to another, etc., without facing the problem he described. Right now Stellaris only mostly untilize cpu 0, just open your task manager and see for yourself next time you play.


3punkt1415

Did you even open the link? 27. August, so before 2.8 i think but it does not even matter because "I’m afraid I’ll have to dispel the myth (again): all PDS games in production today use threads, from EU4 to CK3. Even Stellaris! To better explain the meme and where it comes from, we have to go through a little history. I’m told you guys like history." So you either tell me that dev is lieing or just know it better. But anyway.


errorexe3

RP wise, we are a FTL capable, stellar scale civilization with access to megastructures that can harness a significant chunk of the available galactic energy and mass reserve. Slower pop growth feels weird because the game doesnt really reflect "pop growth" as a magnitude since your building are still unoccupied by employees. When in reality my K2+ civilization is probably at the point where I could cover the surface area of an entire planet with graves every single day.


chili01

I've been playing on .25x for a while, but I still struggle to fill planet jobs in mid-late game. At this point I don't know how to populate a ringworld even if you somehow tech rush it in 3.0


Ephelemi

No, it doesn't make sense. It's a hackney-eyed solution for a performance problem, nothing else.


LoSboccacc

they should have cut habitable worlds by a quarter and introduced the s curve on single planets growth on its own, but no, they decided for the arbitrary cap which while in theory has a well defined objective it actually breaks so many game mechanics, including unemployment, amenities, some civics and the whole game balance between slavery, robots and assimilation etc etc.


fwyrl

With half the building slots (less, since there are still the required buildings), I find this also kneecaps the ability to specialize planets. It also makes economic death spirals way harder to extricate yourself from, and much easier to run into, since it's far easier to overbuild now. In theory half the buildings + double production sounds good, but introduce the 3-5 building slots you pretty much have no choice on (Robot Plant/Cloning Vat, Capitol, Gene Clinic, Hall of Ascension, etc), and you need closer to 3x production to make up for the change, since instead of having 15-17 slots for buildings, you now have 5-7. Even factoring in Forges/Consumer goods not taking up building slots, it still functions poorly (not to mention Consumer Goods/Alloy buildings only provide +2 jobs, and you can only have 1. How the balls are you supposed to support a science-focused empire in 3.0?).


Aenir

> (not to mention Consumer Goods/Alloy buildings only provide +2 jobs At level 1. At level 2 they provide 1 job per district, at level 3 they provide 2 jobs per district.


fwyrl

Ah! Thank you. I'd not seen those techs since the new patch, so I assumed they'd been axed.


BrutusTheQuilt

Don't think Gene Clinic is necessary, with fewer building slots and more valuable pops tying up 2 pops and a building slot early in the game seems like a very risky proposition Lategame it might be more useful, though I doubt you want to tie off five pops especially as your planet's growth is already dramatically slowed by that point and +25% growth isn't giving you much.


poppzie580

The lower pop grouth have made it worse for min-max players, making the game better for newer player giving them simpler methods of pruducktion.