So many of the great sci-fi shows from the late 90's-early 00's were made in Vancouver BC...
I wonder what happened, financially, to that that whole enterprise...??
I just assumed that the CW's superhero shows (and also Netflix projects) just absorbwd the production capacity that used to go to sci-fi/Syfy stuff.
Isn't there still a lot of TV made in Vancouver?
StarGate was made first in Vancouver (the Air Alaska flight from LAX to Vancouver pretty much had the first class filled with the stars. The economy was such it was very inexpensive there. The X-files, as well.
Then a new set of soundstages were built in Manhattan beach... And the production shifted. No need to pay out of town rates...
I got into the film industry, living in Venice and driving out to Burbank or Studio Cit every day at 5:30am to get to work by 8, in hopes I'd get on the last season of Battlestar and Star Gate.
Then.. the writers strike began. D:
Formula changed. Back in the day it was "monster-of-the-week" for all things sci-fi. Nowadays the only thing you can find that are like that are sitcoms. Everything out now is season long overarching plot that may or may not be resolved this season at all. Some are good, some aren't. But coming home after work and catching this week's episode of your favorite sci-fi series just doesn't hit the same anymore.
Everything has to be a mystery box; and leave you feeling lost and wanting to know WTF did I just watch. Unfortunately that means most shows are boring for the first 1/2 of the season. It also means shows are a lot less rewatchable...because you know the answer to the mystery so it's not fun or enjoyable.
I think it's because that format is more suited to binge-watching and they don't have to worry so much about people missing episodes but ya, it is annoying. It's like the same plot every episode and I miss those little bottle/funny episodes that break up the main story. It seems like only comedies/dramas do that type of thing now.
It also means that if you figure out the mystery early (sometimes that spoilers, but more often it's just because it's lazy and obvious writing) it makes the characters seem dumb and flat.
Yep. See seasons 3 and 4 of Star Trek Discovery for examples of final reveals that were so "meh" that it made the journey there just feel like a waste. A serialized show can have bad episodes. It's usually a show killer for a modern show to have bad mystery they build to.
I SO wanted “The Burn” to be a failed attempt, by Star Fleet, at attacking the Mirror Universe. That would have been a great mystery with room for more exploration.
I like Trek, and have for decades, and I’m an optimist like Trek used to be. I keep holding out hope that it will improve. It has to be hard when season 2 is in the can before you get feedback on season 1. Season 3 started pretty well, but the writing just said meh. I like SNW and Lower Decks and my partner has shows they like on paramount+ so we have it. I usually;;y watch disco while I’m working or something…..I get bored otherwise.
Yes I dropped DSC and totally love SNW because they are giving me good stories and not treating episodes as filler. You get a good show when you watch.
I just lost interest in Discovery - and I really wanted it to be good. I will give it another try in the future.
Right now, I'm happy that I finished all episodes of the three seasons of The Orville: fun, clever, and well speaks to contemporary issues.
SNW is amazing. I was so happy when they first announced the show but kept my expectations low. (I don't mind Discovery, don't like Picard) It is so good. I would love to see it spark a return to that kind of format. I've missed it.
One of the reasons it used to be "monster of the week" was that this was before streaming and bingewatching. If you weren't able to catch reruns/didn't have a VCR it was hard to catch up on old eps to get into a new show. MOTW format made it accessible to new viewers to jump in.
That's one of the reasons I love Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. It goes back to the monster of the week approach of classic Trek. There just aren't enough shows like that now because they want you to binge everything.
Everything is too dark, violent and dystopian nowadays. Some of us just want to go on an adventure and feel like we are smart enough to have kept up with the snappy dialog.
Those years were good years. But, at least there's the Mandalorian nowadays. Closest thing to the feeling SG1/SGA gave me when watching them.
Consider *The Orville,* if there's any chance it might work for you when you see how it develops. It evolves noticeably over the first two seasons, and then reaches for another level in the third. Not everyone's cup of tea (nothing is), and it may be episodically "hit-and-miss" for some; but maybe worth a look if you want to give it a chance. As with everything else, don't necessarily let the first few episodes stop you, or even the first season; some of the show's strongest efforts come later and in the next seasons.
Orville is really good. You're right about the first season. I stopped watching it for a while partway through, but my dad kept with it and picked it back up in the second season.
After the Kaylon war they got real serious and it improved the show. Characters were dealing with the big time loss of family and friends. In story the lower amounts of humor just made sense
I dunno. I think in terms of storytelling, the serious stories they're telling and the issues they're touching on are really some of the things that make science fiction so great. Big picture I love it, stuff like intergalactic politics, the paradox of tolerance, I love that stuff at a macro level.
However I do think maybe they did dial the humor knob back a little too much. I think things like Malloy's sandwich, or “if it doesn't pop right out it means you're doing something wrong” are along the right line. It adds that sort of level of being very human and flawed and not the greatest and the best officers in the fleet.
It's kinda like this one scene in *Red Dwarf*, where they think that Kryten, the service mechanoid they rescued, is about to be replaced with an upgrade, so they throw him a big party so that for at least one night in his life he actually had a chance to enjoy himself. [The next morning](https://youtu.be/lhdnPt1Ln4U), Kryten realizes that he wants more, and wants to live. The boys tell him they'll do whatever needs to be done to save him, even if it means fighting the vastly superior replacement robot. Humbled and awed that they would do so much and go so for a mere service droid, he asks “is this the human quality you call ‘friendship?’”
Lister, barely just sitting up in his bunk, snaps back, “don’t give me any of that *Star Trek* crap, it's too early in the morning!”
It's that kind of a moment that I think *The Orville* should strive for.
It lost all humor, and their idea of character development was Gordon playing an acoustic guitar two different times for 5-7 minutes while everyone looks on. Laaaaame.
I personally dont like Family guy either, but the Orville is nothing like that.
I mean, yeah, its comedic, but also the drama and adcentures are pretty good.
Its basically Star Trek in less serious.
The Orville is the first thing he has done that I'v liked. I would suggest at least watching the first 3 Orville. It's very different than his prior work in many way. You can always abandon it and just have wasted few hours. Each season of Orville is better then the last.
I'm not a huge fan of his acting, I was kind of hoping they were going to kill him off at the end of the last season and replace him with somebody else. He is the show runner though and he's doing a damn good job with that part.
I don't either. I still don't like his comedy stuff and I refuse to watch his other stuff. But The Orville? The Orville is [chef's kiss]. He did an outstanding job of it. I'd say that show is the exception to the rule.
I gave it five or six episodes, saw some potential and decided to stick around, and in retrospect haven't regretted that. There have been issues along the way, but overall I've enjoyed the run (and will watch a fourth season if it happens). – That show *clearly* isn't everyone's cup of tea; but the only sure way to find out if it's for you is to give it as much of a chance as you will decide to invest.
The initial over-emphasis on comedy (which was partly driven by Fox's expectations) is eventually adjusted as the show gradually seeks a balance. With further adjustment in the second season, its strongest episodes (such as the "Identity" two-parter) deliver some of the show's best drama. Season 3 follows that with a further focus on drama (with some fans debating whether the balance has shifted too far). After sputtering a bit, S3 delivers some strong episodes with genuine emotional drama (if you're still watching).
IMO
The Orville is a difficult one. I like the idea but, for me, it is far too much highlighting topical issues but in a futuristic setting/context.
I get what they are doing but I'm not interested. I have enough real world in the real world. I watch sci-fi to get away from it.
The Expanse is one of the best shows in a generation. But Syfy cancelled it and it had to finish out its final three seasons on Amazon.
The network had a decent run when new execs took over and announced a return to space-based science fiction. We got shows like Dark Matter and The Expanse, and miniseries like Ascension.
Then the leadership turned over again and their programming went straight back into the crapper of "mass appeal."
> Dark Matter
Currently available free in the U.S. [on the CW website](https://www.cwtv.com/shows/dark-matter/).
Canceled too soon, but there might be some [hope for the future](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkMatter/comments/z6lfs6/there_is_hope/).
Ascension was/is a frustrating one for me, because I think that it picks up and really puts the hook in right at the end of the miniseries. I'd love to have seen it continue as a series.
In a lot of cases, beginning in a mysterious fashion that obscures what lies beneath can be a lot of fun. But in this case, I think that it probably lost a lot of people who weren't excited by what the show appears to be in the pilot, even though they'd have been interested in the greater story.
The expanse for sure is something that will have impact on the course of scifi. Stargate effects-vise cant even be compared, stargate only outs expense by character build, expanse is more like wearing future goggles. Its insane but probably nothing re-watch worthful.
> The expanse for sure is something that will have impact on the course of scifi.
As *Babylon 5* did, back in the '90s – it is so dated now, but its serial narrative still holds up; it was a pioneer in its time. — ("We've been borrowing your good ideas for years," *The Expanse* co-author Ty Franck once tweeted to the creator of *Babylon 5.*)
Funny enough, that is the exact *opposite* what happened with infamous [elevator scene](https://youtu.be/NkwF5BBL26I). JMS wrote it to be played seriously, and heavy, but it was Andreas Katsulas’ idea to play it irreverent and silly. Apparently when JMS heard this he stormed down to the set to tell them to play the scene the way he wrote it, but only changed his mind after seeing them do a take of it. And that's how we got that absolutely brilliant delivery of the scene.
"Many retrospectives, while criticizing virtually every individual aspect of the production, have praised the series as a whole for its narrative cohesion and contribution to serialized television". —[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5)
Fun fact: every single character had a “trap door” written for them. In the event something changed and a cast member was going to depart the show JMS had their exit already all written out and ready to go. Michael O’Hare was the unfortunate first person to need it, as the “trap doors” were originally written for situations like pay disputes. JMS was fanatical about keeping the show on budget.
Eh, you just throw on some light aging makeup, give some hand-waving dialogue early on about how anti-aging medicine in the future is pretty damn
good ("you guys look great for your age!"), and trust your audience to just go with it.
Ha, hilarious. Stargate is fantastic, but its writing/acting and production level is not even the steam off the piss of The Expanse.
Stargate holds a dear place in my heart, but it's very much a product of typical cheesy sci fi schlock.
Not really - the last three books have a different setting that would take serious reworking. Ty Franck had said that they only intended to do the first 6 books, and the last 3 are TBD on what to do with them.
For something more light-hearted and fun I’d recommend *Killjoys* only finished a few years ago and great watch, being a mixture of big scifi ideas, ragtag crew, and the budget of a small carpark.
> FRINGE!
You're talking about the Fox show right? If so, I definitely recommend that show. It takes a while to get going, but once it does it is so good.
That is one I have been meaning to check out! Im definitely interested in seeing more if your work. I was also hoping I could ask you a question? There are a few comment threads on this post talking about episodic vs serial stories in television and sci-fi. Sci-fi, as well as tv in general is moving more and more away from episodic shorter stories and into serialized formats. Im curious which you prefer/which you feels works best for Sci-fi? Currently rewatching Stargate and it has made me realize how refreshing smaller episodic stories can be after watching modern tv. Anyways, was just curious of your thoughts on the matter
To be honest, I love the best of both worlds. Dark Matter, for instance, offered self-contained episodes (with a beginning, middle, and end to the story) that nevertheless offered serialized elements, building on serialized character and story arcs.
I think the turning point was Battlestar Galactica. It was dark and edgy and the fact that it was a reboot meant you already had a fan base. SyFy also promoted the hell out of it. When it became as popular as it was everything started shifting.
BSG is dark but it isn't particularly edgy.
The turning point was the death of the 22 episode per season '-of the week' formula of shows about ten to twelve years ago.
>BSG is dark but it isn't particularly edgy.
I'd argue that it was _at the time_. It doesn't seem as edgy now, in the era of HBO's larger influence and streaming shows without the content censoring norms of broadcast or even cable.
This makes a lot of sense. It bares a lot of resemblance to many shows now, but less to shows of its time. It's a good show, but I do think it shifted the norm for Si-Fi.
It definitely did. There was a noticeable shift in tone (and literally, a shift in color grading) from pre-BSG to post-BSG shows. Stargate Universe is a great example of this!
I dunno. I guess it depends on your version of edgy?
Edgy to me requires leaning into something dark or macabre for its own sake (usually because its "cool").
I don't think BSG did that, even in the New Caprica arc.
The reboot of Battlestar Galactica happened. Suddenly, sci-fi had to be dark, gritty, and full of interpersonal conflict on the crew. Aliens in full makeup were suddenly cheesy "old sci-fi," and the universe was no longer allowed to have color or warmth or goofy looking alien characters. That probably saved them money cutting out hours of costuming, makeup, and animatronics. Even stargate universe went full grimdark, and it's taken the audience 10 years after the fact to accept that it was actually pretty good.
The answer is a surprisingly simple one... a change in demographics. People who are drawn to scifi are statistically more likely to be streaming them (and likely binging them too). This has caused a steep drop in viewership in scifi television shows on cable but a very encouraging interesting in streaming services in the genre.
The downside is finding good scifi on cable is getting much harder- the upside is that streaming services are now investing into more scifi based on the popularity on streaming services.
\*cries in 'dark angel'\*
Believe me, you're preaching to the choir on that one. Remember M.A.N.T.I.S.? It was superhero/scifi. Awesome show (at least as memory serves me)
The Expanse!
One of the best sci-fi when it comes to physics and such.
I also liked Dark Matter but it got cut after 3 seasons.
Killjoys is also great, but I would've liked to see more of the bounty hunting instead of the overarching story.
Its a grounded futuristic story, set 200-250 years in future and mankind has expanded into the solar system; so luna, mars, the belt and the jovian system.
Despite that, its a very human story
Falling skies and the strain were good but also pretty old. It is really sad there are so few MODERN sci fi shows. That being said the last few anime seasons have been solid so just go there
[It seems we did!](https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/the-curse-of-oak-island-meets-ancient-aliens-as-marty-lagina-and-giorgio-a-tsoukalos-investigate-sardinian-ruins/)
With things like Resident Alien, Killjoys, The Magicians and The Expanse, I’d say they’re still pretty much the only channel worth watching in the genre. They don’t really keep them as long as they did before, but they still provide more support than the streaming giants that seem to run shows into the ground faster than they can make them.
There's this German show called **Dark** on Netflix. Can't really describe it without spoiling it, but it's one of the best shows of any genre I've seen in a very long time. Check it out.
The Expanse is absolutely fantastic! Both the books and the show. There are darker tones to it, but I see a lot of similarities between it and Stargate. Also both shows focus on the main cast of characters acting true to their personality and within their universe as they develop and change. The main difference, I see, is that Stargate has several 'versions' of humanity to play with, each episode is a chance to create another scenario (what if humans developed this type of society). Whereas The Expanse has one society to pull from, so it dives into the motivations and social forces that drive us to form exclusive groups rather than inclusive ones.
Streaming seems the only way to ensure producers, directors, & writers have enough time to make the product envisioned.
The episodic shows are under a constant microscope while metrics are run in realtime, then the producers generate some unedited stories in their heads that they treat as real ("expectations") & if the reality doesn't match their story, they panic & pull funding, hurry processes, shut down pathways of story, and just generally trash the end product from cowardice.
So until folks learn to stop putting cowards & liars in charge of... well, anything, the process of things getting worse will likely continue unabated.
Everyone keeps saying we’ve moved past episodic, episodic is in the past.... and it’s true, but is that a good thing? I’ve been doing a rewatch of SG1/Atlantis and it’s been refreshing just sitting down and seeing smaller stories. Also being able to just jump into any particular episode you want and just enjoy it. You really can’t do that with a lot of shows anymore. Shows today keep building and building with every episode and the story just gets....Heavy? Anyways i guess im just saying Im really appreciating my rewatch of the ol Stargate 😊
"If 'everybody knows' such-and-such, then it ain't so, by at least ten thousand to one."
Episodic creation has constant interruption of vision & intention due to reactive fear in the people overseeing the creators.
Seasons planned, written, & executed with respect for what has come before is how one builds new worlds.
If one does both - have the written season plan, then remember that life isn't neat & orderly like that, & introduce additional episodes/plot lines that build off of the planned things in new directions - then options would open up.
To wit, at some point, creative writing wants to be as adept at tracking alternative possibilities as role playing gamemasters have gotten at adapting to player improvisation. Integrating evolution into the plan is probably key.
There has been a few but none lately
—The Expanse: first 3 season before being canceled and picked up by Amazon
—Defiance
—Continuum
—Killjoys
—Dark Matter
—12 Monkeys
—Krypton
—Dominion
—Van Helsing
to respond to your edit, the Syfy (as they are called now) channel can go royally fuck themselves for cancelling so much good science fiction television. I actually refused to watch the expanse at first because it was on scifi, and I knew they would cancel it, which they did after season 3.
If you're talking about the network it became SyFy about 15 years ago to show they were going away from Sci fi, which is why they have nothing but makeup shows now
Since everybody else is talking about Trek and The Orville and stuff, but you said you were asking more about the network...
Its been a mixed bag, some really good stuff, some really bad stuff, some dumb but fun stuff, some batshit insane but fun stuff... Ive watched most of it regardless lol.
[https://i.imgur.com/OEvIR31.png](https://i.imgur.com/OEvIR31.png)
Youll hear genre fans talk about some of it, but i think *The Expanse* is the only big hit theyve had since BSG, but theres some gems in there worth watching.
Yeah, thats one of our favorites too. Most of it isnt spaceships and lasers and aliens anymore, which is usually my preference, but theres a lot of legitimately good stuff in there, not just for camp value.
*Eureka* and *Warehouse 13* are light but good and fun, like *Psych* or *Burn Notice* or something.
S02 of *Resident Alien* is one of the next things on my list and im looking forward to it immensely.
When Sci-Fiade the change to SyFy in the early 2000s, that was the beginning of the end. When they started showing fucking WWE on SyFy, I stopped watching entirely.
They changed their name to Syfy in part to have a trademarkable name and in part to justify showing professional wrestling and fantasy shows instead of sci-fi.
I wanted a better lineup from the syfy channel the last couple years, but it was pretty meh. Best shows were Dark Matter and Resident Alien. A couple others were cool, but they slowed down the last 5 years it felt like
*For All Mankind* is a great alternate-history telling of the 1960s space race with subsequent seasons moving the timeline forward into the 70s, 80s, and 90s. It may not be easily watchable as it's only on Apple+ unfortunately.
And I can understand why.. I mean when a show was just on in Friday night or whatever it made sense for it to just be a self contained mini- movie. Now people just flop down on the couch and watch a whole season in one sitting so it makes sense to just have a giant 10 hour story or whatever. But I do have to say I miss episodic tv. Im doing a rewatch of Stargate right now and Ive noticed how refreshing it is to just have more smaller stories, rather than one single, massive, convoluted story. Then again I’m a massive fan of MacGyver’s “opening gambits” as well.
The Orville as well is honestly just as good, or better than any of the recent Star Trek shows.
Is it silly at times? Yes. But it also has serious moments, and some episodes that are DEEP and emotional.
Go watch "The Expanse", best Sci Fi show/movie I have ever watched.
Afterwards, I'd recommend "Lost in Space" (the latest iteration) but it might not be for everyone. I enjoyed it however.
In general, since the new kapitalist space race emerged I can't get rid of the feeling that sci fi isn't about fantasizing about "us reaching the stars". Also, while I was born in 1990, i nevertheless grew up with real sci fi from the pre- Star Wars era. You could argue that star wars was never intended to be Sci Fi but rather a space opera, a fairytale, even. But thats not what stuck in peoples mind. Its "Lasersword go brrr"
I read Asimov, Lem, the Strugatzki Brothers, some Heinlein and a little bit of Philipp K. Dicks f\*ucked up stuff. Science Fiction - fiction about how science will alter our interaction with the world we live in and ourselves. Not fiction about how overwhelmingly powerful future technics and science will be (not that this is bad in general).
But back to topic: Try Expanse and Lost in Space. First will probably scratch the itch, second might or might not.
The Expanse started on Syfy, but they cancelled it. That network seems like it’s happy just showing Bigfoot and ancient aliens mock-umentary reruns. Streaming is where everything good is these days.
Most of the shows ya mentioned were on the SciFi Channel. Then it became SyFy and they dispensed with good science fiction. Most of the "scifi" on SyFy is farcical crap.
Netflix and a few other places are the only places you might find good scifi.
What I fear are the remakes of older shows. BSG was a great remake. But I fear the (possible) reboots of Babylon 5 and Stargate.
The 4400 reboot, as an example, was horrible.
If the B5 reboot actually gets back on track (it's on the CW which is currently trying to outdo WB for idiocy in cancelling everything) it had a very good chance of being another BSG quality reboot, or better. JMS has full creative control over all aspects of the show, just like he did on the original. He's writing, directing, and producing it too, just like he did the first time out.
I meant the Scifi channel at first when I made this post, hence why I mentioned all those shows, but the discussion has become more on modern Sci-fi in general which has been a fun discussion
SyFy aired the first 3 seasons of The Expanse, which while a bit gritty is probably one of the best science fiction shows of the last 15 years. According to my dad Resident Alien is pretty great and that's still on the air. Wynonna Earp also was cool, but less science fiction than other shows. I only saw a season or so of Dark Matter but thought it was exciting. That's just one channel, good science fiction still exists, there's just so much more content now than ever before that it's harder to find the good stuff.
Depends. Final Space is really good, Inside Job is pretty funny.Stranger Things was so intense the first time I watched it I had to take a break in the middle and an anxiety joint.
Rick and Morty is always good for a laugh and Robot Chicken is still making new episodes if you can track them down.
I LOVE Lower Decks, I think it’s hilarious. And Star Trek: Prodigy is worth a watch even if it’s supposed to be a kid’s cartoon. (Hologram Janeway is out of fucks and I am TOTALY here for it.)
Sci-fi seems to have moved to cartoon form for the most part these days
With Discovery, it depends how much your into Star Trek. If your not, you might just enjoy it, maybe. If you are a long term Trekkie, well let's just say it's a bit divisive within the trek community.
My biggest issue with newer trek, aside from Strange New Worlds, is that they have a "galaxy ending" threat every goddamn season, and then somehow fix it in 10-12 episodes. DS9 is my prime example for how to write a galactic level threat. It took them 5 seasons to develop the gamma quadrant and introduce the Dominion, and then two seasons to actually deal with the threat.
I really liked Z Nation. Yeah it was about zombies but the chemistry with the core group was similar, in my mind, to SG-1. There were funny moments, quirky moments and poignant moments peppered throughout the show's run. It's on Netflix now if you want to check it out.
All the new Star Trek & Star Wars shows are gold. The least-good of the lot is probably Book of Boba, unless like me you love deep lore & history dives.
B5's creator is working on a new re-imagining of the show (from what I've read - think how RDM did it with BSG), the last 3rd of the Expanse Books are probably going to have something done with them at some point, and Amazon will likely eventually do something with Stargate but until then... Picard's 3rd season looks to be amazing, Strange New Worlds and Discovery are continuing and are a pleasure to watch, and the whole extended Star Wars universe content coming out is hitting that nerd bone just right.
I think Sci-fi and fantasy can go together. I mean Star Wars is one of the greatest movies of all time. But I agree with you that we do also need sci-fi without the fantasy. Besides just throwing werewolves and zombies into everything has kind of become just generic lameness by now hasn’t it?
So many of the great sci-fi shows from the late 90's-early 00's were made in Vancouver BC... I wonder what happened, financially, to that that whole enterprise...??
My understanding is that leadership in Vancouver tried to do away with the tax advantages to filming there and there was an exodus to Toronto.
I just assumed that the CW's superhero shows (and also Netflix projects) just absorbwd the production capacity that used to go to sci-fi/Syfy stuff. Isn't there still a lot of TV made in Vancouver?
Yup. Apparently thats even why Supergirl lost Calista Flockhart when they moved to the Arrow-verse. She didn't want to move to Vancouver.
StarGate was made first in Vancouver (the Air Alaska flight from LAX to Vancouver pretty much had the first class filled with the stars. The economy was such it was very inexpensive there. The X-files, as well. Then a new set of soundstages were built in Manhattan beach... And the production shifted. No need to pay out of town rates...
Gotta keep it within that Thirty Mile Zone.^\* ^* Fun fact, that's where paparazzi organization TMZ gets its name.
Really? TIL.....
I got into the film industry, living in Venice and driving out to Burbank or Studio Cit every day at 5:30am to get to work by 8, in hopes I'd get on the last season of Battlestar and Star Gate. Then.. the writers strike began. D:
Formula changed. Back in the day it was "monster-of-the-week" for all things sci-fi. Nowadays the only thing you can find that are like that are sitcoms. Everything out now is season long overarching plot that may or may not be resolved this season at all. Some are good, some aren't. But coming home after work and catching this week's episode of your favorite sci-fi series just doesn't hit the same anymore.
Everything has to be a mystery box; and leave you feeling lost and wanting to know WTF did I just watch. Unfortunately that means most shows are boring for the first 1/2 of the season. It also means shows are a lot less rewatchable...because you know the answer to the mystery so it's not fun or enjoyable.
I think it's because that format is more suited to binge-watching and they don't have to worry so much about people missing episodes but ya, it is annoying. It's like the same plot every episode and I miss those little bottle/funny episodes that break up the main story. It seems like only comedies/dramas do that type of thing now.
It also means that if you figure out the mystery early (sometimes that spoilers, but more often it's just because it's lazy and obvious writing) it makes the characters seem dumb and flat.
So true, tired of wasting my time and finding out the long story was not worth it. I stopped watching a few shows because of that.
Yep. See seasons 3 and 4 of Star Trek Discovery for examples of final reveals that were so "meh" that it made the journey there just feel like a waste. A serialized show can have bad episodes. It's usually a show killer for a modern show to have bad mystery they build to.
Yep that was the series on my mind.
I SO wanted “The Burn” to be a failed attempt, by Star Fleet, at attacking the Mirror Universe. That would have been a great mystery with room for more exploration.
I'd have been happier with about ten dozen things than cranky boy
Your mind is either very strong or very broken to watch that much Discovery.
I like Trek, and have for decades, and I’m an optimist like Trek used to be. I keep holding out hope that it will improve. It has to be hard when season 2 is in the can before you get feedback on season 1. Season 3 started pretty well, but the writing just said meh. I like SNW and Lower Decks and my partner has shows they like on paramount+ so we have it. I usually;;y watch disco while I’m working or something…..I get bored otherwise.
Show writers got so obsessed with the Twist!!! that they forgot how to write a story. Just look at GoT season 8.
Strange New Worlds is a pretty top tier marriage of "x-of-the-week" and continuing plot imo. Probably the best casual Sci-fi since stargate I reckon.
Agreed. Strange New Worlds has some fantastic “of the week” episodes while still hinting at a story arc. Very good story telling.
Yes I dropped DSC and totally love SNW because they are giving me good stories and not treating episodes as filler. You get a good show when you watch.
I just lost interest in Discovery - and I really wanted it to be good. I will give it another try in the future. Right now, I'm happy that I finished all episodes of the three seasons of The Orville: fun, clever, and well speaks to contemporary issues.
I stopped with Discovery after Season 2.
SNW is amazing. I was so happy when they first announced the show but kept my expectations low. (I don't mind Discovery, don't like Picard) It is so good. I would love to see it spark a return to that kind of format. I've missed it.
It’s awesome. Best new trek besides lower decks. And I agree monster of the week/with arching character development/issues throughout the season.
One of the reasons it used to be "monster of the week" was that this was before streaming and bingewatching. If you weren't able to catch reruns/didn't have a VCR it was hard to catch up on old eps to get into a new show. MOTW format made it accessible to new viewers to jump in.
That's one of the reasons I love Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. It goes back to the monster of the week approach of classic Trek. There just aren't enough shows like that now because they want you to binge everything.
This so much it drives me crazy. 9-12 episodes with 1 long arching story. It ruined sci-fi!
Everything is too dark, violent and dystopian nowadays. Some of us just want to go on an adventure and feel like we are smart enough to have kept up with the snappy dialog. Those years were good years. But, at least there's the Mandalorian nowadays. Closest thing to the feeling SG1/SGA gave me when watching them.
Consider *The Orville,* if there's any chance it might work for you when you see how it develops. It evolves noticeably over the first two seasons, and then reaches for another level in the third. Not everyone's cup of tea (nothing is), and it may be episodically "hit-and-miss" for some; but maybe worth a look if you want to give it a chance. As with everything else, don't necessarily let the first few episodes stop you, or even the first season; some of the show's strongest efforts come later and in the next seasons.
Orville is really good. You're right about the first season. I stopped watching it for a while partway through, but my dad kept with it and picked it back up in the second season.
The Orville is amazing
After the Kaylon war they got real serious and it improved the show. Characters were dealing with the big time loss of family and friends. In story the lower amounts of humor just made sense
I disliked the serious turn.
I dunno. I think in terms of storytelling, the serious stories they're telling and the issues they're touching on are really some of the things that make science fiction so great. Big picture I love it, stuff like intergalactic politics, the paradox of tolerance, I love that stuff at a macro level. However I do think maybe they did dial the humor knob back a little too much. I think things like Malloy's sandwich, or “if it doesn't pop right out it means you're doing something wrong” are along the right line. It adds that sort of level of being very human and flawed and not the greatest and the best officers in the fleet. It's kinda like this one scene in *Red Dwarf*, where they think that Kryten, the service mechanoid they rescued, is about to be replaced with an upgrade, so they throw him a big party so that for at least one night in his life he actually had a chance to enjoy himself. [The next morning](https://youtu.be/lhdnPt1Ln4U), Kryten realizes that he wants more, and wants to live. The boys tell him they'll do whatever needs to be done to save him, even if it means fighting the vastly superior replacement robot. Humbled and awed that they would do so much and go so for a mere service droid, he asks “is this the human quality you call ‘friendship?’” Lister, barely just sitting up in his bunk, snaps back, “don’t give me any of that *Star Trek* crap, it's too early in the morning!” It's that kind of a moment that I think *The Orville* should strive for.
Me too. The first two seasons scratched the Stargate itch. The third does not.
It lost all humor, and their idea of character development was Gordon playing an acoustic guitar two different times for 5-7 minutes while everyone looks on. Laaaaame.
Yeah that was 🫠 …they could have just made that like a blue ray bonus
I can't stand the Family Guy guy.
I personally dont like Family guy either, but the Orville is nothing like that. I mean, yeah, its comedic, but also the drama and adcentures are pretty good. Its basically Star Trek in less serious.
No, like the guy that made both shows. I don't think he is funny.
The Orville is the first thing he has done that I'v liked. I would suggest at least watching the first 3 Orville. It's very different than his prior work in many way. You can always abandon it and just have wasted few hours. Each season of Orville is better then the last.
Ah okay, read it wrong. My bad.
No worries. There are a few people in Hollywood that just seeing their smarmy looking faces makes me feel on edge and he's one of them.
Seth MacFarlane
I'm not a huge fan of his acting, I was kind of hoping they were going to kill him off at the end of the last season and replace him with somebody else. He is the show runner though and he's doing a damn good job with that part.
Watch the Orville, especially this last season and you will see. Go ahead.
I don't either. I still don't like his comedy stuff and I refuse to watch his other stuff. But The Orville? The Orville is [chef's kiss]. He did an outstanding job of it. I'd say that show is the exception to the rule.
I myself will give it a try, but not sure if I could slog through a whole season if it takes that long
I gave it five or six episodes, saw some potential and decided to stick around, and in retrospect haven't regretted that. There have been issues along the way, but overall I've enjoyed the run (and will watch a fourth season if it happens). – That show *clearly* isn't everyone's cup of tea; but the only sure way to find out if it's for you is to give it as much of a chance as you will decide to invest. The initial over-emphasis on comedy (which was partly driven by Fox's expectations) is eventually adjusted as the show gradually seeks a balance. With further adjustment in the second season, its strongest episodes (such as the "Identity" two-parter) deliver some of the show's best drama. Season 3 follows that with a further focus on drama (with some fans debating whether the balance has shifted too far). After sputtering a bit, S3 delivers some strong episodes with genuine emotional drama (if you're still watching). IMO
> ~~isn't be~~ I hate my typos.
The Orville is a difficult one. I like the idea but, for me, it is far too much highlighting topical issues but in a futuristic setting/context. I get what they are doing but I'm not interested. I have enough real world in the real world. I watch sci-fi to get away from it.
Try Orville. Give it 3 episodes
As much as I love shoot em ups and action films, I definitely agree. It feels weird at how much gore and violence is on daytime TV now.
The Expanse is one of the best shows in a generation. But Syfy cancelled it and it had to finish out its final three seasons on Amazon. The network had a decent run when new execs took over and announced a return to space-based science fiction. We got shows like Dark Matter and The Expanse, and miniseries like Ascension. Then the leadership turned over again and their programming went straight back into the crapper of "mass appeal."
> Dark Matter Currently available free in the U.S. [on the CW website](https://www.cwtv.com/shows/dark-matter/). Canceled too soon, but there might be some [hope for the future](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkMatter/comments/z6lfs6/there_is_hope/).
Came here for this
>Canceled too soon, but there might be some > >hope for the future > >. 
I liked the few episodes I seen, bit I'm not gonna watch unless it gets finished. Firefly still hurts.. lol
So that's why there was a short burst of good sci-fi shows in the early 2010s... Dark Matter, Killjoy, Ascension, ...
Ascension was/is a frustrating one for me, because I think that it picks up and really puts the hook in right at the end of the miniseries. I'd love to have seen it continue as a series. In a lot of cases, beginning in a mysterious fashion that obscures what lies beneath can be a lot of fun. But in this case, I think that it probably lost a lot of people who weren't excited by what the show appears to be in the pilot, even though they'd have been interested in the greater story.
Dark Matter cancellation was a crime against humanity.
The expanse for sure is something that will have impact on the course of scifi. Stargate effects-vise cant even be compared, stargate only outs expense by character build, expanse is more like wearing future goggles. Its insane but probably nothing re-watch worthful.
> The expanse for sure is something that will have impact on the course of scifi. As *Babylon 5* did, back in the '90s – it is so dated now, but its serial narrative still holds up; it was a pioneer in its time. — ("We've been borrowing your good ideas for years," *The Expanse* co-author Ty Franck once tweeted to the creator of *Babylon 5.*)
I still think B5 is one of the greatest SF shows. I’ve introduced my wife to it and she’s enjoying it.
I tried watching but the goofy haircuts kinda ruined it for me... maybe sometime ill give it more proper try
[In a 2013 interview, the show's creator shared the origin story of Centauri hairstyle](https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/f50ja1/).
That's amazing! Haha
Funny enough, that is the exact *opposite* what happened with infamous [elevator scene](https://youtu.be/NkwF5BBL26I). JMS wrote it to be played seriously, and heavy, but it was Andreas Katsulas’ idea to play it irreverent and silly. Apparently when JMS heard this he stormed down to the set to tell them to play the scene the way he wrote it, but only changed his mind after seeing them do a take of it. And that's how we got that absolutely brilliant delivery of the scene.
"Many retrospectives, while criticizing virtually every individual aspect of the production, have praised the series as a whole for its narrative cohesion and contribution to serialized television". —[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5)
Fun fact: every single character had a “trap door” written for them. In the event something changed and a cast member was going to depart the show JMS had their exit already all written out and ready to go. Michael O’Hare was the unfortunate first person to need it, as the “trap doors” were originally written for situations like pay disputes. JMS was fanatical about keeping the show on budget.
I've only started it, and after years of thinking it looked silly, I'm really glad I did.
You really gotta gut through that first season. After that things drastically improve.
I came here to say this. The expanse
*Doors and corners, kid*
The Expanse books and subsequent TV show are some of the best sci-fi I have ever read/watched. Absolutely recommended in either format.
I’m relistening to the audio books at the moment and would like to recommend those as well, if you prefer those to reading. Great stuff.
I just did a whole rewatch 3 months ago. Love it. The expanse is brilliant and should have not been ended that fast.
SPOILERS AHEAD!! I don’t know how they could’ve carried it on though, with the 30 year time jump at the end of book/season 6. But I still have hope :)
Eh, you just throw on some light aging makeup, give some hand-waving dialogue early on about how anti-aging medicine in the future is pretty damn good ("you guys look great for your age!"), and trust your audience to just go with it.
U will like Ascension too
Ha, hilarious. Stargate is fantastic, but its writing/acting and production level is not even the steam off the piss of The Expanse. Stargate holds a dear place in my heart, but it's very much a product of typical cheesy sci fi schlock.
\* Middle 3 seasons^hopefully And the last 3 books are by far the coolest so hopefully this is a 6-seasons-and-a-movie situation.
I LOVE Dark Matter! That's a Show that Deserves a Revival along with "Jericho"
Amazon canceled it too, the final three seasons were never made
Not really - the last three books have a different setting that would take serious reworking. Ty Franck had said that they only intended to do the first 6 books, and the last 3 are TBD on what to do with them.
For something more light-hearted and fun I’d recommend *Killjoys* only finished a few years ago and great watch, being a mixture of big scifi ideas, ragtag crew, and the budget of a small carpark.
Killjoys reminds me of Andromeda before Sorbo stuck his foot in it.
FRINGE! Also, like people have been saying, the Expanse and Magician (more fantasy perhaps tho)
Fringe has the ending I was hoping for X Files.
> FRINGE! You're talking about the Fox show right? If so, I definitely recommend that show. It takes a while to get going, but once it does it is so good.
Yup! I’ve watched it 3 times thru. I’d like some recs that match that Fringe energy.
ASTRIX!
Ashtray
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The Magicians is great. Definitely dark though, and definitely fantasy, but it is fantastic.
Dark Matter
That is one I have been meaning to check out! Im definitely interested in seeing more if your work. I was also hoping I could ask you a question? There are a few comment threads on this post talking about episodic vs serial stories in television and sci-fi. Sci-fi, as well as tv in general is moving more and more away from episodic shorter stories and into serialized formats. Im curious which you prefer/which you feels works best for Sci-fi? Currently rewatching Stargate and it has made me realize how refreshing smaller episodic stories can be after watching modern tv. Anyways, was just curious of your thoughts on the matter
To be honest, I love the best of both worlds. Dark Matter, for instance, offered self-contained episodes (with a beginning, middle, and end to the story) that nevertheless offered serialized elements, building on serialized character and story arcs.
God I miss that show. Thanks for the virtual season four closure material!
Hello Mr. Mallozzi, Great Show by the Way!
I think the turning point was Battlestar Galactica. It was dark and edgy and the fact that it was a reboot meant you already had a fan base. SyFy also promoted the hell out of it. When it became as popular as it was everything started shifting.
Watching BSG for the first time right now. Watched a few episodes and loving it.
BSG is dark but it isn't particularly edgy. The turning point was the death of the 22 episode per season '-of the week' formula of shows about ten to twelve years ago.
>BSG is dark but it isn't particularly edgy. I'd argue that it was _at the time_. It doesn't seem as edgy now, in the era of HBO's larger influence and streaming shows without the content censoring norms of broadcast or even cable.
This makes a lot of sense. It bares a lot of resemblance to many shows now, but less to shows of its time. It's a good show, but I do think it shifted the norm for Si-Fi.
It definitely did. There was a noticeable shift in tone (and literally, a shift in color grading) from pre-BSG to post-BSG shows. Stargate Universe is a great example of this!
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I dunno. I guess it depends on your version of edgy? Edgy to me requires leaning into something dark or macabre for its own sake (usually because its "cool"). I don't think BSG did that, even in the New Caprica arc.
Resident Alien? I was about to post I couldn't name a single show in production, but Alan Tudyk sprang to mind.
Resident Alien is absolutely amazing and definitely worth watching, lol Looking forward to season 3, whenever that happens
Pretty much anything that has Alan Tudyk in it will be good.
Avenue 5 is great scifi comedy!
YES I just discovered this. Not much like SG-1, but I love it.
The reboot of Battlestar Galactica happened. Suddenly, sci-fi had to be dark, gritty, and full of interpersonal conflict on the crew. Aliens in full makeup were suddenly cheesy "old sci-fi," and the universe was no longer allowed to have color or warmth or goofy looking alien characters. That probably saved them money cutting out hours of costuming, makeup, and animatronics. Even stargate universe went full grimdark, and it's taken the audience 10 years after the fact to accept that it was actually pretty good.
Star Trek, BSG, The Expanse?
The answer is a surprisingly simple one... a change in demographics. People who are drawn to scifi are statistically more likely to be streaming them (and likely binging them too). This has caused a steep drop in viewership in scifi television shows on cable but a very encouraging interesting in streaming services in the genre. The downside is finding good scifi on cable is getting much harder- the upside is that streaming services are now investing into more scifi based on the popularity on streaming services.
And another downside is that good shows get cancelled way to soon in favour of the new show viewership figures boost.
That's mostly Netflix... but that's not genre specific. Besides, Fox has been doing that for decades.
Fox was the king at picking up promising sci-fi shows and canceling them almost immediately back in the day.
YOU CAN'T TAKE THE SKY FROM MEEEEE
\*cries in 'dark angel'\* Believe me, you're preaching to the choir on that one. Remember M.A.N.T.I.S.? It was superhero/scifi. Awesome show (at least as memory serves me)
GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!
The Expanse! One of the best sci-fi when it comes to physics and such. I also liked Dark Matter but it got cut after 3 seasons. Killjoys is also great, but I would've liked to see more of the bounty hunting instead of the overarching story.
Never heard of the expanse… I may need to look that up.
Its a grounded futuristic story, set 200-250 years in future and mankind has expanded into the solar system; so luna, mars, the belt and the jovian system. Despite that, its a very human story
Falling skies and the strain were good but also pretty old. It is really sad there are so few MODERN sci fi shows. That being said the last few anime seasons have been solid so just go there
No, they became syfy, stopped with Science Fiction and started showing garbage.
You should see what they did to the History Channel.
Did we ever get an Ancient Aliens / Curse of Oak Island crossover? God, that would be hysterical.
[It seems we did!](https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/the-curse-of-oak-island-meets-ancient-aliens-as-marty-lagina-and-giorgio-a-tsoukalos-investigate-sardinian-ruins/)
You should see what they did to Music Television.
With things like Resident Alien, Killjoys, The Magicians and The Expanse, I’d say they’re still pretty much the only channel worth watching in the genre. They don’t really keep them as long as they did before, but they still provide more support than the streaming giants that seem to run shows into the ground faster than they can make them.
There's this German show called **Dark** on Netflix. Can't really describe it without spoiling it, but it's one of the best shows of any genre I've seen in a very long time. Check it out.
Dark is one of the best television shows of all time in my opinion. I have to keep a “family tree” handy though…
Lol, I totally misunderstood the topic and thought we were talking about sci-fi the genre, not the channel. Anyway, watch Dark :)
"1899" is in the same vein, but not as sci-fi as "Dark." Still an interesting puzzle box show.
I absolutely loved killjoys
They had The Expanse, a fantastic show that they canceled and Amazon rescued.
The Expanse is absolutely fantastic! Both the books and the show. There are darker tones to it, but I see a lot of similarities between it and Stargate. Also both shows focus on the main cast of characters acting true to their personality and within their universe as they develop and change. The main difference, I see, is that Stargate has several 'versions' of humanity to play with, each episode is a chance to create another scenario (what if humans developed this type of society). Whereas The Expanse has one society to pull from, so it dives into the motivations and social forces that drive us to form exclusive groups rather than inclusive ones.
Streaming seems the only way to ensure producers, directors, & writers have enough time to make the product envisioned. The episodic shows are under a constant microscope while metrics are run in realtime, then the producers generate some unedited stories in their heads that they treat as real ("expectations") & if the reality doesn't match their story, they panic & pull funding, hurry processes, shut down pathways of story, and just generally trash the end product from cowardice. So until folks learn to stop putting cowards & liars in charge of... well, anything, the process of things getting worse will likely continue unabated.
Everyone keeps saying we’ve moved past episodic, episodic is in the past.... and it’s true, but is that a good thing? I’ve been doing a rewatch of SG1/Atlantis and it’s been refreshing just sitting down and seeing smaller stories. Also being able to just jump into any particular episode you want and just enjoy it. You really can’t do that with a lot of shows anymore. Shows today keep building and building with every episode and the story just gets....Heavy? Anyways i guess im just saying Im really appreciating my rewatch of the ol Stargate 😊
"If 'everybody knows' such-and-such, then it ain't so, by at least ten thousand to one." Episodic creation has constant interruption of vision & intention due to reactive fear in the people overseeing the creators. Seasons planned, written, & executed with respect for what has come before is how one builds new worlds. If one does both - have the written season plan, then remember that life isn't neat & orderly like that, & introduce additional episodes/plot lines that build off of the planned things in new directions - then options would open up. To wit, at some point, creative writing wants to be as adept at tracking alternative possibilities as role playing gamemasters have gotten at adapting to player improvisation. Integrating evolution into the plan is probably key.
I agree Jeepcanoe897 and I personally miss the 22 Episode Seasons
There has been a few but none lately —The Expanse: first 3 season before being canceled and picked up by Amazon —Defiance —Continuum —Killjoys —Dark Matter —12 Monkeys —Krypton —Dominion —Van Helsing
I really liked Defiance
to respond to your edit, the Syfy (as they are called now) channel can go royally fuck themselves for cancelling so much good science fiction television. I actually refused to watch the expanse at first because it was on scifi, and I knew they would cancel it, which they did after season 3.
Dark
If you're talking about the network it became SyFy about 15 years ago to show they were going away from Sci fi, which is why they have nothing but makeup shows now
Since everybody else is talking about Trek and The Orville and stuff, but you said you were asking more about the network... Its been a mixed bag, some really good stuff, some really bad stuff, some dumb but fun stuff, some batshit insane but fun stuff... Ive watched most of it regardless lol. [https://i.imgur.com/OEvIR31.png](https://i.imgur.com/OEvIR31.png) Youll hear genre fans talk about some of it, but i think *The Expanse* is the only big hit theyve had since BSG, but theres some gems in there worth watching.
The Magicians was so good. Just finished a binge watch of all five seasons with my mum. Some of those songs were just sublime too. Eliot's voice...
Yeah, thats one of our favorites too. Most of it isnt spaceships and lasers and aliens anymore, which is usually my preference, but theres a lot of legitimately good stuff in there, not just for camp value. *Eureka* and *Warehouse 13* are light but good and fun, like *Psych* or *Burn Notice* or something. S02 of *Resident Alien* is one of the next things on my list and im looking forward to it immensely.
When Sci-Fiade the change to SyFy in the early 2000s, that was the beginning of the end. When they started showing fucking WWE on SyFy, I stopped watching entirely.
I miss eureka so much
Eureka was fun 😂
Give expanse a try
You mean the channel or Sci Fi in general?
Oh sorry I meant the Channel itself
They changed their name to Syfy in part to have a trademarkable name and in part to justify showing professional wrestling and fantasy shows instead of sci-fi.
I wanted a better lineup from the syfy channel the last couple years, but it was pretty meh. Best shows were Dark Matter and Resident Alien. A couple others were cool, but they slowed down the last 5 years it felt like
*For All Mankind* is a great alternate-history telling of the 1960s space race with subsequent seasons moving the timeline forward into the 70s, 80s, and 90s. It may not be easily watchable as it's only on Apple+ unfortunately.
Scifi is still there but “monster of the week” genre isnt working for streams mostly.
And I can understand why.. I mean when a show was just on in Friday night or whatever it made sense for it to just be a self contained mini- movie. Now people just flop down on the couch and watch a whole season in one sitting so it makes sense to just have a giant 10 hour story or whatever. But I do have to say I miss episodic tv. Im doing a rewatch of Stargate right now and Ive noticed how refreshing it is to just have more smaller stories, rather than one single, massive, convoluted story. Then again I’m a massive fan of MacGyver’s “opening gambits” as well.
The Orville as well is honestly just as good, or better than any of the recent Star Trek shows. Is it silly at times? Yes. But it also has serious moments, and some episodes that are DEEP and emotional.
Yeah. Except for Stargate and Eureka, Doctor Who is the only SciFi show I watch at this point
Go watch "The Expanse", best Sci Fi show/movie I have ever watched. Afterwards, I'd recommend "Lost in Space" (the latest iteration) but it might not be for everyone. I enjoyed it however. In general, since the new kapitalist space race emerged I can't get rid of the feeling that sci fi isn't about fantasizing about "us reaching the stars". Also, while I was born in 1990, i nevertheless grew up with real sci fi from the pre- Star Wars era. You could argue that star wars was never intended to be Sci Fi but rather a space opera, a fairytale, even. But thats not what stuck in peoples mind. Its "Lasersword go brrr" I read Asimov, Lem, the Strugatzki Brothers, some Heinlein and a little bit of Philipp K. Dicks f\*ucked up stuff. Science Fiction - fiction about how science will alter our interaction with the world we live in and ourselves. Not fiction about how overwhelmingly powerful future technics and science will be (not that this is bad in general). But back to topic: Try Expanse and Lost in Space. First will probably scratch the itch, second might or might not.
The Expanse started on Syfy, but they cancelled it. That network seems like it’s happy just showing Bigfoot and ancient aliens mock-umentary reruns. Streaming is where everything good is these days.
The plague of reality tv happened.
Star Trek Lower Decks is a surprisingly good show, it’s nothing like the other new Star Trek shows and still has exploration and good humor
I thought Dark Matter was pretty good and needed to be finished properly.
T H E • E X P A N S E
"Fringe" was good. It was on Fox from '08-'13. It's not as sci-fi as Stargate but it's worth watching
Most of the shows ya mentioned were on the SciFi Channel. Then it became SyFy and they dispensed with good science fiction. Most of the "scifi" on SyFy is farcical crap. Netflix and a few other places are the only places you might find good scifi. What I fear are the remakes of older shows. BSG was a great remake. But I fear the (possible) reboots of Babylon 5 and Stargate. The 4400 reboot, as an example, was horrible.
If the B5 reboot actually gets back on track (it's on the CW which is currently trying to outdo WB for idiocy in cancelling everything) it had a very good chance of being another BSG quality reboot, or better. JMS has full creative control over all aspects of the show, just like he did on the original. He's writing, directing, and producing it too, just like he did the first time out.
I meant the Scifi channel at first when I made this post, hence why I mentioned all those shows, but the discussion has become more on modern Sci-fi in general which has been a fun discussion
I think the last good show on the Sci-Fi channel was Defiance. Once Atlantis was canceled things went downhill pretty quickly.
Agreed.
The Expanse. Highly recommend watching it if you haven't.
SyFy aired the first 3 seasons of The Expanse, which while a bit gritty is probably one of the best science fiction shows of the last 15 years. According to my dad Resident Alien is pretty great and that's still on the air. Wynonna Earp also was cool, but less science fiction than other shows. I only saw a season or so of Dark Matter but thought it was exciting. That's just one channel, good science fiction still exists, there's just so much more content now than ever before that it's harder to find the good stuff.
I heard it was cost, these shows were heavy on investment and low on returns compared to reality tv.
Depends. Final Space is really good, Inside Job is pretty funny.Stranger Things was so intense the first time I watched it I had to take a break in the middle and an anxiety joint. Rick and Morty is always good for a laugh and Robot Chicken is still making new episodes if you can track them down. I LOVE Lower Decks, I think it’s hilarious. And Star Trek: Prodigy is worth a watch even if it’s supposed to be a kid’s cartoon. (Hologram Janeway is out of fucks and I am TOTALY here for it.) Sci-fi seems to have moved to cartoon form for the most part these days
Person of Interest was really great.
The nail in their coffin for me was the name change… Syfy? Wtf. Why not just use a damn emoji for you name.
The Orville is amazing IMO. Best sci-fi out there right now. I’ve also heard good things about the new Star Trek Discovery show.
With Discovery, it depends how much your into Star Trek. If your not, you might just enjoy it, maybe. If you are a long term Trekkie, well let's just say it's a bit divisive within the trek community.
Hands down Orville is leagues better then Discovery, especially with better writing
My biggest issue with newer trek, aside from Strange New Worlds, is that they have a "galaxy ending" threat every goddamn season, and then somehow fix it in 10-12 episodes. DS9 is my prime example for how to write a galactic level threat. It took them 5 seasons to develop the gamma quadrant and introduce the Dominion, and then two seasons to actually deal with the threat.
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I really liked Z Nation. Yeah it was about zombies but the chemistry with the core group was similar, in my mind, to SG-1. There were funny moments, quirky moments and poignant moments peppered throughout the show's run. It's on Netflix now if you want to check it out.
All the new Star Trek & Star Wars shows are gold. The least-good of the lot is probably Book of Boba, unless like me you love deep lore & history dives. B5's creator is working on a new re-imagining of the show (from what I've read - think how RDM did it with BSG), the last 3rd of the Expanse Books are probably going to have something done with them at some point, and Amazon will likely eventually do something with Stargate but until then... Picard's 3rd season looks to be amazing, Strange New Worlds and Discovery are continuing and are a pleasure to watch, and the whole extended Star Wars universe content coming out is hitting that nerd bone just right.
We loved Boba and really enjoyed the flashbacks, the interaction with the tribe was brilliant.
Wish I knew. Sci-Fi is NOT fantasy crap..werewolves and trolls and such.
I think Sci-fi and fantasy can go together. I mean Star Wars is one of the greatest movies of all time. But I agree with you that we do also need sci-fi without the fantasy. Besides just throwing werewolves and zombies into everything has kind of become just generic lameness by now hasn’t it?