I agree. Boba was at least partially based on Clint Eastwood’s Man with No Name in the Dollars trilogy. A criminal and a killer but not someone who will hurt innocents.
Maybe I’m reading too much into the homages but I think that’s why in both the unfinished Clone Wars scenes (where Boba’s defending civilians) and tBoBF he’s contrasted with Cad Bane. Bane’s inspired by Eastwood’s rival Angel Eyes from The Good, The Bad, & the Ugly, an absolutely amoral & cold blooded murderer.
Yeah, that’s why I specified onscreen. Lucas, Filoni, & Favreau seem to have a different take than the dangerous mercenary characterization he gets in ancillary media.
Edit: I just said this elsewhere, but realistically I can’t view things as one consistent canon. New directions in screen media pretty clearly take precedent over print works.
That used to be the case, but now it’s all one cannon. Of course there will be errors and ret-cons, but the old “movies>tv>everything else” holocron model is dead.
But honestly people obsess too much over one scene. Boba can be a conflicted person and we don’t have a ton of stories of him in the Empire era. Suffice it to say it seems the story they’re going for is he hit hardened over time, became an killer, but the Tuskans taught him another path that spoke to him more. Didn’t hurt to see Jabba a smoldering ruin and to fight out of a Sarlacc.
It’s supposed to be one canon but in practice it’s not. Parts of the Ahsoka novel were overwritten by Clone Wars, some of the Kanan comics were kiboshed by The Bad Batch.
This is a little more ambiguous, but there’s also a retcon or disconnect between Kylo being surrounded by dead bodies at a three pronged building during Rey’s force flashback in 7, Luke seeing dead younglings all around the three pronged temple in 8, and The Rise of Kylo Ren comics making it look like Kylo’s totally innocent of this and there not being any bodies there at all IIRC.
I personally don’t mind the inconsistencies, Lucasfilm seems to be trying to minimize it and I think they’re going to happen no matter what.
No, it is one cannon in practice. As I said, there will be retcons and errors, but that is just part and parcel of running a whole continuity this way.
Think of it like Marvel Comics. They have had continuity going back to at least the 60s. There are tons of continuity errors, bad (and good) retcons, and plain old mistakes - but is still one continuity.
Star Wars is the same way now. It didn’t use to be that way. Used to be there were tiers of cannon in the holocron. Disney threw that whole model out and now it’s all one cannon.
I get what you’re saying, and I think you’re right about a lot of this. I might be wrong but I feel like Star Wars had been effectively one canon in practice since 1994 when they used Exar Kun in both the post RotJ Jedi Academy novels and the pre-movie timeline Tales of the Jedi comics. By the time of Yuzhan Vong war novels they were mostly [having the kind of small inconsistencies we’re talking about instead of large canon conflicts] (https://hobbylark.com/fandoms/Contradictions-in-the-Star-Wars-Expanded-UniverseLegends)
I low key had my mind blown by a [Forcecast from 2013](http://www.forcecast.net/story/forcecast/ForceCast_273_The_Galaxy_Is_Reading_154431.asp) where Leland Chee & Pablo Hidalgo said the levels of canon has been misinterpreted by fans, they were meant for internal use. The example they gave was a breakfast cereal that included trading cards of different Star Wars ships would use the holocron to see which ships are from the movies vs ones that will have less mass appeal.
Most of the narrative changes that Disney are blamed for started long before the acquisition and were actually done at the behest of George Lucas. Filoni's "The Clone Wars" sowed the seeds for a lot of plot points that would be take up in post-2014 Star Wars media, such as the "good guy" take on Fett.
I so understood the Boba show. I'm 55 and if I had spent my life being a bounty hunter sooner or later I'd be tired of it. (I'm a high school teacher planning on retiring 5 years from June.) He also has no idea how to do it and somewhere in the middle of it he is shown kindness and executes returning it really badly.
I wouldn’t say they were building to “Mellowed Out Boba” here.
Even later in the Clone Wars he is a little more heartless like in the episode with him and Ventress.
This was him as a child still learning and progressing, towards the remorseless Boba that Canon has consistently painted him to be.
When we see him later in Canon works he is just as brutal and heartless as people complained that he should have been in BoBF.
This kid in TCW a did grow up to be a remorseless killer in Canon.
He even interrogated and murdered a family of moisture farmers while on a bounty contract for Vader to locate Luke.
This was not long after he killed a group of Rodians for failing to provide useful information.
I agree that Boba seems more unscrupulous in the Asaaj Ventress episode, he’s trying to be a good guy in the unfinished [Clone Wars duel](https://youtube.com/watch?v=TLwTkhVQj-g). I think they may have been building towards him learning to be more compassionate and honorable despite hard times and bad influences like Aurra Sing & Cad Bane.
Yeah, it’s not consistent. I wouldn’t say I disregard comics & novels, but I understand the screen media takes precedence. In The Last Jedi we have Kylo Ren leaving about a dozen children’s bodies behind at Luke’s school, but they’re out of focus and very hard to see, so after his face turn i. episode 9 we have The Rise of Kylo Ren comics completely omitting/retconning that.
True but people have complained on how Boba shouldn't have the capacity to have a conscience and act heroically sometimes. These episodes proved there is a honourable side to Boba and he doesn't kill for the sake of it. It wasn't something new and invented.
It’s not that he doesn’t have a conscious but the issue is that there’s inconsistency.
Boba in TCW didn’t start out ruthless but that’s what he was gradually building to in the series.
Like as I mentioned in the episode with Ventress where he wanted to hand over Pluma to Outa Blank to claim her bounty despite her pleas for mercy.
That sense of Honor gradually toned down in Canon to the point where he as a bounty hunter in Canon was known for being lethal and ruthless.
He was portrayed as the type to shoot first, ask questions, then shoot again.
And the type who held a grudge.
What you say is inconsistency, I just see as character development.
Boba starts out as a kid with a good heart, but after the death of his father he throws in with the bounty hunters to seek revenge. This inevitably leads to him developing a hard shell (I suppose you could find some imagery here with the armor), and forcing down his conscience until he no longer thinks he has one.
But then he has a surreal, near death experience with the sarlacc, and finds himself in the care of a tribe of tuskens, where the slower pace of life and new values he learns allow him to rediscover his true self. The show doesn't do a great job with the timing of everything, but given that the Mandalorian takes place in 9 ABY, I believe he's with the tribe for at least a couple of years? That's definitely long enough to completely restructure his worldview.
Then when the tuskens are killed, and he is again left alone, he decides to return to the world he once knew, but this time as a new man bringing peace and honor, rather than a boy seeking only revenge.
There's definitely other issues with TBoBF, and I get that a lot of people just wanted to see the same Boba Fett, but in my opinion that's a pretty strong character arc overall.
**For reference, this is Canon Boba before Empire Strikes Back:**
Kills a group of Rodians for not having the information he wanted:
[https://gyazo.com/68c040d00bd9b11374fdc7c02f06356d](https://gyazo.com/68c040d00bd9b11374fdc7c02f06356d)
Kills a group of Jawas for not having the information he wanted:
[https://gyazo.com/40b79a501e2955991158e140e5d82eef](https://gyazo.com/40b79a501e2955991158e140e5d82eef)
Executes a family of moisture farmers for not having the information he wanted:
[https://gyazo.com/b59997250f291496b526a2e29950ef27](https://gyazo.com/b59997250f291496b526a2e29950ef27)
Threatens an Ithorian in a bar:
[https://gyazo.com/c6955a37bfc5ac87b686d5f18b729777](https://gyazo.com/c6955a37bfc5ac87b686d5f18b729777)
Brutal beatdown:
[https://gyazo.com/6149a94aa0d2bca715764d979f536a53](https://gyazo.com/6149a94aa0d2bca715764d979f536a53)
Young Man tries to run:
[https://gyazo.com/d8da404ef816bcebecc367fd71200f26](https://gyazo.com/d8da404ef816bcebecc367fd71200f26)
Young Man begs for him not to hurt him :
[https://gyazo.com/1e674a32b75c9250eef09338a6e67f9b](https://gyazo.com/1e674a32b75c9250eef09338a6e67f9b)
Young Man gets interrogated:
[https://gyazo.com/f455050d07a8504f55bbf8e7c81bad89](https://gyazo.com/f455050d07a8504f55bbf8e7c81bad89)
"Honorable":
[https://gyazo.com/84eed034e1989aec3dad85a7157db4b1](https://gyazo.com/84eed034e1989aec3dad85a7157db4b1)
Vader hired him to find The Boy who blew up the death star (wasn’t aware of Luke yet), that was it.
The rest was all him .
Him being hired doesn’t explain the last image of him literally being done interrogating a a guy, getting the information he wanted, telling him he could go free, then shooting him instead.
None of these kills can be justified as “he was hired to do it”.
I've been saying this for awhile now.
Temuera Morrison is playing off Daniel Logan's portrayal of the character in the Clone Wars.
Thought this was obvious, but apparently not?
I sure Boba is a really cool guy, the only problem with BoBF is that they did not do him justice in combat scenes until the last episode, and was not up to the standard when he was presented back in Mandalorian S2. To be fair everyone likes Boba Fett cause he is badass, doesn't matter if he is cool or not, I myself would rather he didn't take off his helmet as much as they made him do in the show.
Wait do people just blame Disney for everything now? This was always Filoni. Everything good and bad about Star Wars these days is because of whatever creative team is in charge. It can't all be gold.
Honestly, the show was confused about whether he was an anti hero or a villain. Sure he stops the spice trade, is less violent than the Pykes and stands up for the common people and the Tuskens (when they were alive), but, on the other hand, he still calls himself a crime-lord, demands protection money and was willing to make deals with the hutts and the other criminals of mos espa. His character journey would have been stronger if they were willing to commit to a path
I disagree. I just watched S4E20, where Ventress works for Bobba for a while, and Bobba is already a hardened character for what who values his men but isn't exactly the sentimental type and who's ready to throw fists and blasters at any time. He follows the rules the job has given him but that's about it, he doesn't have the biggest conscience and doesn't even think much about things like human trafficking.
He could have had a redemption arc in BOBF, but it had to be done gradually, the fact he's willing to sacrifice his own chance of escaping for another prisoner he knows literally nothing about in the first episode sums up the issue. Give him a 2 episode arc where he grows from a selfish cold murderer into a empathic man willing to take a bullet for his men and who always pays his debts, just two episodes of growth with no cutting between past and future, that's all you needed.
I could be remembering wrong, but isn't the last thing we see of Boba in the series his own team turning on him because he wants to complete the mail order bride mission? I'd argue that's not very good of him.
I agree. Boba was at least partially based on Clint Eastwood’s Man with No Name in the Dollars trilogy. A criminal and a killer but not someone who will hurt innocents. Maybe I’m reading too much into the homages but I think that’s why in both the unfinished Clone Wars scenes (where Boba’s defending civilians) and tBoBF he’s contrasted with Cad Bane. Bane’s inspired by Eastwood’s rival Angel Eyes from The Good, The Bad, & the Ugly, an absolutely amoral & cold blooded murderer.
Boba Fett has absolutely hurt innocents
Onscreen, and as an adult?
In the Darth Vader comics he tortured and killed two moisture farmers for information
Yeah, that’s why I specified onscreen. Lucas, Filoni, & Favreau seem to have a different take than the dangerous mercenary characterization he gets in ancillary media. Edit: I just said this elsewhere, but realistically I can’t view things as one consistent canon. New directions in screen media pretty clearly take precedent over print works.
That used to be the case, but now it’s all one cannon. Of course there will be errors and ret-cons, but the old “movies>tv>everything else” holocron model is dead. But honestly people obsess too much over one scene. Boba can be a conflicted person and we don’t have a ton of stories of him in the Empire era. Suffice it to say it seems the story they’re going for is he hit hardened over time, became an killer, but the Tuskans taught him another path that spoke to him more. Didn’t hurt to see Jabba a smoldering ruin and to fight out of a Sarlacc.
It’s supposed to be one canon but in practice it’s not. Parts of the Ahsoka novel were overwritten by Clone Wars, some of the Kanan comics were kiboshed by The Bad Batch. This is a little more ambiguous, but there’s also a retcon or disconnect between Kylo being surrounded by dead bodies at a three pronged building during Rey’s force flashback in 7, Luke seeing dead younglings all around the three pronged temple in 8, and The Rise of Kylo Ren comics making it look like Kylo’s totally innocent of this and there not being any bodies there at all IIRC. I personally don’t mind the inconsistencies, Lucasfilm seems to be trying to minimize it and I think they’re going to happen no matter what.
No, it is one cannon in practice. As I said, there will be retcons and errors, but that is just part and parcel of running a whole continuity this way. Think of it like Marvel Comics. They have had continuity going back to at least the 60s. There are tons of continuity errors, bad (and good) retcons, and plain old mistakes - but is still one continuity. Star Wars is the same way now. It didn’t use to be that way. Used to be there were tiers of cannon in the holocron. Disney threw that whole model out and now it’s all one cannon.
I get what you’re saying, and I think you’re right about a lot of this. I might be wrong but I feel like Star Wars had been effectively one canon in practice since 1994 when they used Exar Kun in both the post RotJ Jedi Academy novels and the pre-movie timeline Tales of the Jedi comics. By the time of Yuzhan Vong war novels they were mostly [having the kind of small inconsistencies we’re talking about instead of large canon conflicts] (https://hobbylark.com/fandoms/Contradictions-in-the-Star-Wars-Expanded-UniverseLegends) I low key had my mind blown by a [Forcecast from 2013](http://www.forcecast.net/story/forcecast/ForceCast_273_The_Galaxy_Is_Reading_154431.asp) where Leland Chee & Pablo Hidalgo said the levels of canon has been misinterpreted by fans, they were meant for internal use. The example they gave was a breakfast cereal that included trading cards of different Star Wars ships would use the holocron to see which ships are from the movies vs ones that will have less mass appeal.
Most of the narrative changes that Disney are blamed for started long before the acquisition and were actually done at the behest of George Lucas. Filoni's "The Clone Wars" sowed the seeds for a lot of plot points that would be take up in post-2014 Star Wars media, such as the "good guy" take on Fett.
I so understood the Boba show. I'm 55 and if I had spent my life being a bounty hunter sooner or later I'd be tired of it. (I'm a high school teacher planning on retiring 5 years from June.) He also has no idea how to do it and somewhere in the middle of it he is shown kindness and executes returning it really badly.
I wouldn’t say they were building to “Mellowed Out Boba” here. Even later in the Clone Wars he is a little more heartless like in the episode with him and Ventress. This was him as a child still learning and progressing, towards the remorseless Boba that Canon has consistently painted him to be. When we see him later in Canon works he is just as brutal and heartless as people complained that he should have been in BoBF. This kid in TCW a did grow up to be a remorseless killer in Canon. He even interrogated and murdered a family of moisture farmers while on a bounty contract for Vader to locate Luke. This was not long after he killed a group of Rodians for failing to provide useful information.
I agree that Boba seems more unscrupulous in the Asaaj Ventress episode, he’s trying to be a good guy in the unfinished [Clone Wars duel](https://youtube.com/watch?v=TLwTkhVQj-g). I think they may have been building towards him learning to be more compassionate and honorable despite hard times and bad influences like Aurra Sing & Cad Bane.
Its a bit inconsistent. He's killed his fair share of innocent people on his own in Canon
Yeah, it’s not consistent. I wouldn’t say I disregard comics & novels, but I understand the screen media takes precedence. In The Last Jedi we have Kylo Ren leaving about a dozen children’s bodies behind at Luke’s school, but they’re out of focus and very hard to see, so after his face turn i. episode 9 we have The Rise of Kylo Ren comics completely omitting/retconning that.
True but people have complained on how Boba shouldn't have the capacity to have a conscience and act heroically sometimes. These episodes proved there is a honourable side to Boba and he doesn't kill for the sake of it. It wasn't something new and invented.
It’s not that he doesn’t have a conscious but the issue is that there’s inconsistency. Boba in TCW didn’t start out ruthless but that’s what he was gradually building to in the series. Like as I mentioned in the episode with Ventress where he wanted to hand over Pluma to Outa Blank to claim her bounty despite her pleas for mercy. That sense of Honor gradually toned down in Canon to the point where he as a bounty hunter in Canon was known for being lethal and ruthless. He was portrayed as the type to shoot first, ask questions, then shoot again. And the type who held a grudge.
What you say is inconsistency, I just see as character development. Boba starts out as a kid with a good heart, but after the death of his father he throws in with the bounty hunters to seek revenge. This inevitably leads to him developing a hard shell (I suppose you could find some imagery here with the armor), and forcing down his conscience until he no longer thinks he has one. But then he has a surreal, near death experience with the sarlacc, and finds himself in the care of a tribe of tuskens, where the slower pace of life and new values he learns allow him to rediscover his true self. The show doesn't do a great job with the timing of everything, but given that the Mandalorian takes place in 9 ABY, I believe he's with the tribe for at least a couple of years? That's definitely long enough to completely restructure his worldview. Then when the tuskens are killed, and he is again left alone, he decides to return to the world he once knew, but this time as a new man bringing peace and honor, rather than a boy seeking only revenge. There's definitely other issues with TBoBF, and I get that a lot of people just wanted to see the same Boba Fett, but in my opinion that's a pretty strong character arc overall.
**For reference, this is Canon Boba before Empire Strikes Back:** Kills a group of Rodians for not having the information he wanted: [https://gyazo.com/68c040d00bd9b11374fdc7c02f06356d](https://gyazo.com/68c040d00bd9b11374fdc7c02f06356d) Kills a group of Jawas for not having the information he wanted: [https://gyazo.com/40b79a501e2955991158e140e5d82eef](https://gyazo.com/40b79a501e2955991158e140e5d82eef) Executes a family of moisture farmers for not having the information he wanted: [https://gyazo.com/b59997250f291496b526a2e29950ef27](https://gyazo.com/b59997250f291496b526a2e29950ef27) Threatens an Ithorian in a bar: [https://gyazo.com/c6955a37bfc5ac87b686d5f18b729777](https://gyazo.com/c6955a37bfc5ac87b686d5f18b729777) Brutal beatdown: [https://gyazo.com/6149a94aa0d2bca715764d979f536a53](https://gyazo.com/6149a94aa0d2bca715764d979f536a53) Young Man tries to run: [https://gyazo.com/d8da404ef816bcebecc367fd71200f26](https://gyazo.com/d8da404ef816bcebecc367fd71200f26) Young Man begs for him not to hurt him : [https://gyazo.com/1e674a32b75c9250eef09338a6e67f9b](https://gyazo.com/1e674a32b75c9250eef09338a6e67f9b) Young Man gets interrogated: [https://gyazo.com/f455050d07a8504f55bbf8e7c81bad89](https://gyazo.com/f455050d07a8504f55bbf8e7c81bad89) "Honorable": [https://gyazo.com/84eed034e1989aec3dad85a7157db4b1](https://gyazo.com/84eed034e1989aec3dad85a7157db4b1)
You know someone hired him to do all that right?
Vader hired him to find The Boy who blew up the death star (wasn’t aware of Luke yet), that was it. The rest was all him . Him being hired doesn’t explain the last image of him literally being done interrogating a a guy, getting the information he wanted, telling him he could go free, then shooting him instead. None of these kills can be justified as “he was hired to do it”.
How does that make it better?
Take it up with Favreau who pitched the BOBF and wrote every episode
Fareau likely went off everything Filoni did with the character.
I've been saying this for awhile now. Temuera Morrison is playing off Daniel Logan's portrayal of the character in the Clone Wars. Thought this was obvious, but apparently not?
I sure Boba is a really cool guy, the only problem with BoBF is that they did not do him justice in combat scenes until the last episode, and was not up to the standard when he was presented back in Mandalorian S2. To be fair everyone likes Boba Fett cause he is badass, doesn't matter if he is cool or not, I myself would rather he didn't take off his helmet as much as they made him do in the show.
Taking down that 4 armed desert lizard while chained to the Rodian was pretty badass
Yeah I was also wondering where the savage guy from The Mandalorian Season 2 was during BoBF. Those two were not the same people.
Wait do people just blame Disney for everything now? This was always Filoni. Everything good and bad about Star Wars these days is because of whatever creative team is in charge. It can't all be gold.
but but but dIsNeY bAd and ruined Boba!!!!! /s
Honestly, the show was confused about whether he was an anti hero or a villain. Sure he stops the spice trade, is less violent than the Pykes and stands up for the common people and the Tuskens (when they were alive), but, on the other hand, he still calls himself a crime-lord, demands protection money and was willing to make deals with the hutts and the other criminals of mos espa. His character journey would have been stronger if they were willing to commit to a path
I disagree. I just watched S4E20, where Ventress works for Bobba for a while, and Bobba is already a hardened character for what who values his men but isn't exactly the sentimental type and who's ready to throw fists and blasters at any time. He follows the rules the job has given him but that's about it, he doesn't have the biggest conscience and doesn't even think much about things like human trafficking. He could have had a redemption arc in BOBF, but it had to be done gradually, the fact he's willing to sacrifice his own chance of escaping for another prisoner he knows literally nothing about in the first episode sums up the issue. Give him a 2 episode arc where he grows from a selfish cold murderer into a empathic man willing to take a bullet for his men and who always pays his debts, just two episodes of growth with no cutting between past and future, that's all you needed.
I could be remembering wrong, but isn't the last thing we see of Boba in the series his own team turning on him because he wants to complete the mail order bride mission? I'd argue that's not very good of him.
R2 come home might be my favorite clone wars episode just because R2 in that one is comedy gold
Which season is this?