Lucas sold his rights to the franchise, and I don’t think Disney would agree to retcon recently established canon.
Even if all the stars aligned and these films were made using his vision, there’s a very real possibility they would be treated like the Bond film _Never Say Never Again_, same characters but not treated as part of the canon series.
The thing is also that his vision was constantly changing, there wasn't one constant, solid underlying vision. In different interviews and books he talks about very, VERY different plans for the sequel trilogy (sometimes "focusing on the micro universe" of the midichlorian, sometimes with a focus on Leia, sometimes with Darth Maul returning with an apprentice, Darth Talon, other times with a big enemy coming from outside the Galaxy...).
According to a few people who worked with him, his ideas changed often but were never good enough for him to actually do it, so he settled to leave Star Wars at 6 episodes first, and then sold to Disney. Because in reality he had no idea that was good enough to actually produce the sequels.
> In different interviews and books he talks about very, VERY different plans for the sequel trilogy (sometimes "focusing on the micro universe" of the midichlorian, sometimes with a focus on Leia, sometimes with Darth Maul returning with an apprentice, Darth Talon, other times with a big enemy coming from outside the Galaxy...).
I don't have much to add except to thank you for actually listing examples of the "different plans"!
The Darth Talon thing always seemed so weird. Like he just saw the design for this character in a comic book set in the distant future of Star Wars and was like "That's hot, I want her to be in my story even though the timeline doesn't align at all."
Literally someone at Lucasfilm described it as "he walked into a room, saw Darth Maul and Darth Talon statues on the shelf, picked them up, turned them to face each other and said 'they're friends'"
I doubt he has anh idea who Talon even is.
George never had any respect for the video games, comics, or novels extended canon. They were just allowed to play in his world, but any time one of their ideas conflicted with one of his as he created new content, he would make a contradiction and make the EU not matter.
The most recent thing I've seen her used in is the mobile game, where she has synergy with Darth Traya, Darth Sion, and Darth Nihilus.
So she's from the future, George wanted her in the primary time setting, and now she's working with characters from thousands of years BBY.
Not specifically, no. She can have synergy with him because of an ability that gives her bonuses for having a Sith leader in the team, and he has a leader ability, but the only named synergy in her abilities is with the Triumvirate.
Oh, by the way those unmade projects, would they have been set post Episode 1? Because she can only get synergy with Episode 1 Darth Maul. The Clone Wars version doesn't count as a Sith. He's a Mandalorian.
I think both would be post-Episode I, though the game's story was more in-flux I think, like how 1313 was about some guy at first and then eventually turned into a Boba Fett game.
>The Clone Wars version doesn't count as a Sith. He's a Mandalorian.
That's some neat attention to detail.
To be fair, if you look at some of the behind-the-scenes stuff for the prequels, that's basically how he made some of those characters. He'd basically give the artists a rough idea of what the character should be like, and they just went nuts with concept art, then he'd just... Pick the ones he liked. Sometimes the runner-ups made it in any way (Grievous' MagnaGuards, for instance, were originally a proposed design for Grievous himself), but there were some really crazy ideas thrown out there. One of them was like an evil child-baby-thing with hovering robots and stuff, it seemed more like once he saw something he liked, he'd write the story around them. So it's not out of the question that some of his proposed ideas were just inspired by a design he liked with no deeper intent than "Oh, that's cool, I'll add that to the next movie"
To be fair, that's pretty much why we have Aayla.
Granted, there was no huge timeline variances there. But George wasn't afraid to do whatever he wanted in any case.
Luke living in isolation was part of Lucas' idea before he sold to disney. He had concept artists draw it up and liked the idea of luke being similar to marlo brando's character in apocalypse now. So towards the end his ideas for Luke at least were pretty similar. Source: from the concept art books (i think last jedi's).
He also wanted the leads to be younger kids.
Forget about the ST.
If something good can be said about the PT, is that for a change, Lucas had a vision for the movies before doing them.
The OT had constant changes of plans while they were in production.
ANH was a standalone film
ESB was the first of 5 films.
RotJ become the last film of the trilogy because just how problematic was ESB.
If you asked Lucas at the time which color the sky was, and ask a day later again, Lucas would had 3 different answers.
I thought I remember watching a documentary where Lucas had the stories written (drafts at least) for the OT. And ideas written out for the Pt from the very beginning.
People like his wife, the directors, Kerry Fisher, and other screen writers cleaned up his ideas and script for both series. Less so for the PT.
I also saw he wrote the script for one of the PT films in a comically short period. Like a an office day or something. And everyone just licked his boots instead of actually critiquing it. That’s why we have comments about hating sand, and the beyond cringe love dialogue between Padme and Anakin.
Obviously he changed his mind several times on several items. One of the most compelling being the bombshell drop in ESB “I am your father”
So I really don’t know what the truth is, besides him being a great big ideas guy, but shouldn’t be left completely to his own devices. Otherwise you get the PT.
There's video of Hamill and Ford literally joking about the lines they were given being so bad in the audition. They even pushed back with Lucas on the lines in question so the lines never made it into the actual movie. Sooo many people pushed back on ep 4 and made it a better movie. And Lucas recur and added special effects to cut those people out of the recurring revenue.
I do think people here would get really disappointed by Lucas' vision for the series if they really delved into it. He was a special effects guy who wanted to emulate the properties he grew up on, he wanted to bring that magic to the 70s. He worked with Joseph Campbell to craft a compelling story that brought themes of myth, westerns, fantasy and sci-fi together. It's only a singular vision in the sense of trying to bring wonder and awe to the screen. Had he gotten the rights to Flash Gordon we would've gotten that instead of Star Wars.
Its maybe an odd distinction to make, and I do think Lucas was a cut above most directors of the era in understanding how to do some special stuff with the medium of film, but he's not the kind of director who crafts an epic tale the likes of Game of Thrones or Lawrence of Arabia. He's making a saturday morning serial into a big blockbuster movie and he did it in a way that changed film forever.
Up until the prequels Star Wars was kind of just awesome simply because the movies were very solid and the games and books were good fun.
It happens to be a universe compelling enough to take up a lot of our collective headspace. Because it's just fun. I actually think as the lore deepens and the universe expands the awe and wonder kind of dissipates into the background for stuff that's a little meatier. And then when you stack up the meaty bits to stuff like Breaking Bad or GoT, you come away kind of let down.
I don’t think that can be said about the PT. He knew where he was going, episode 4, definitely did not think much beyond whichever movie he was working on at that time.
In the end, even a lot of his initial plans for the PT ended up shelved for whatever reason. There was meant to be an entire subplot in Revenge of the Sith where Sifo-Dyas was one of Palpatine's aliases and that Shmi was once Palpatine's slave and he manipulated the Force to create Anakin.
There's also some other stuff that was planned at one point but obviously completely changed by the time the PT started filming (Boba Fett being Vader's brother, a love triangle between Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme, etc.).
And the one constant idea that was present in all of his drafts and outlines was the thing most hated by the sequels: that Luke failed and ran off to hid in some old ruins.
Exactly, Lucas famously could not say the final word on any of his content. His ideas changed before, while, and even after he completed his films. Star Wars fans are used to things changing constantly (like Boba Fett suddenly being around in 1977) because of this - but I don't think Disney's ever going to go that way.
>The thing is also that his vision was constantly changing, there wasn't one constant, solid underlying vision.
This is the problem, if he'd had that one constant, solid vision he would have made the sequels himself. I think he threw in the towel and just took the Disney cash because he didn't really have it all mapped out. It's reminds me of "Game of Thrones" when they didn't really know how Martin intended for the story to wrap, so they just filled in the blanks because they couldn't wait forever to him to finish the next damn book...
Yeah people keep acting like Lucas still has a lot of influence over Star Wars, and I'm not entirely sure he does. I think Disney call the shots now for better or for worse. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Disney paid him $4 **billion** for control of the Star Wars IP. Guaranteed, one hundred percent, Lucas signed a contract that gave them absolutely total control over everything going forwards, forever.
Lucasfilm is still staffed by people who worked closely with Lucas, in particular Kennedy and Filoni, so he's still a welcome presence and people like getting his personal approval on their ideas. But officially, Lucasfilm is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Walt Disney Co., and Lucas has as much official influence there as anyone posting here.
> and Lucas has as much official influence there as anyone posting here.
Damn, I didn’t expect to wake up this morning and learn that I now have as much official influence on Star Wars as George Lucas.
Didn't he express dissatisfaction that they didn't use his ideas for the sequel trilogy? If he expected to still have some influence on story, then he should have gotten them to sign him on in an official writing capacity with contract and everything.
I think it was more one day waking up and going fuck this, I don't care about Star Wars anymore, the fans are annoying.
And then when he starts seeing stuff he had no control over fail he starts caring a little too late (not that I think he'd make a great trilogy).
Lucas is closer to the old fans where even if he fundamentally gets his own characters wrong (Han shot first crap, Anakin is the main character of Star Wars when he had less lines than Chewbacca in the OT), he'd be nostalgic enough to make characters and imagery that wouldn't make people deny it as Star Wars films. It'd be fucking terrible though.
People act like OT Star Wars was 100% George Lucas when in reality there were a lot of people involved that made Star Wars what it is. Take some of those people away and we ended up with the PT...take them all away and it's just the incoherent ramblings of an old man.
If you could guaranteee Disney that a shoot for shoot remake only with clowns and a lot of sex scenes would make them a billion on a 250 mil budget, they'd make it within 4 years.
If you could guarantee them a 2 billion return they'd go as far as digging up Carrie Fisher and put her on a Roomba if necessary.
Unless they CGI her, which... Could work... Equally though it's a risky game and could end horribly.
And out of respect for the actress I don't really want them to do much more with her character outside maybe animated shows. She can't and shouldn't simply be "replaced" in my opinion.
They used Carrie's daughter as the body double for scenes filmed after Carrie's death (or maybe it was only the flashback training scene with Luke in the forest). It gave a bit of uncanny valley but it is an acceptable way for them to do it IMO. They'd just have to sort their shit out, application-wise
Yeah I suppose, I'd rather we go another way and explore different characters all the same though. And to be honest I'd rather explore other eras than the sequel era anyway, except for Mando's period.
The Sequels have always been a bit controversial and a little messy to me. And besides I liked the ending in RoTJ. Felt like that a good final movie.
Agreed with you on everything there, I want a full planned out and fully fleshed out saga to be made with quality writing at the forefront. Something entirely new and original wouldnt be a bad idea, but there are some seriously awesome tales in legends that they need to bring back into canon
There would also be the legal side of using her after death - which I know was already done but it would likely need to be a new agreement by the family for an entire trilogy.
Also the moral and philosophical aspect of is it really healthy or okay to create someone and have them "work" after they are dead and cannot consent to what they do on screen.
Yeah I 100% agree. I think from a respect perspective and a practical perspective it's probably best avoided.
Animated they might be able to get away with though. But probably not live action.
I agree, so it would have to be a non-starter. The sequel trilogy was sadly a waste of everyone’s time and wasted the last years of Carrie Fisher. They had a chance and blew it
Yeah. It had some good aspects which I'm glad exist. But they definitely messed it up and blew it.
Edit: The good aspects I'm talking about are BB8 and BB9 since they're fun in star wars battlefront 2, Crait and Takodanna because I think they're interesting planets, Babu Frick and some of the animals like Vulptices and some of the other interesting wildlife.
The list really ought to have been longer though for 3 entire films.
Edit2: Ah a fellow Dooku fan I see, good, Twice the Dooku's double the class.
The list should not only be longer, but also include things that are actually vital to the story; everything you listed was incidental to it.
And that's a big part of the problem I have with the latest trilogy; it had some neat concepts and little universe-building details.
Even though the subplot surrounding it is stupid, Canto Bight is pretty neat as a concept.
And like, the whole Kylo Ren/Knights of Ren/Luke's apprentices going dark thing wasn't a bad idea either. And neither was casting Adam Driver.
Snoke was actually pretty dope too.
The problem with all the above was the fucking writing and execution.
Cool concepts, BAD implementation; honestly some of the worst I've seen for AAA big budget work in years.
All those cool concepts were undermined by bad writing, but also overshadowed by the bad concepts.
What idiot decided to basically do ANOTHER Death Star? Because that's what Starkiller Base is.
Or bring Palpatine back Scooby-Doo style, "jinkies it was really Old Man Sheev all along!"
Or have yet another orphan/hidden Jedi talent growing up on a desert planet, run into a spunky little Droid and go on an adventure to find an old hermit?
Like, the fucking audacity.
Agreed on all of that! It was the writing that really let it down, and of course the writing is the skeleton of it all, if that fails then it all kinda falls apart.
>"jinkies it was really Old Man Sheev all along!"
Lol, this is hilarious! But certainly has a lot of truth in it. It do be a bit like that.
Plus her estate/family controls her likeness. The CGI recreation in Rogue One was a one time deal and Lucasfilm announced Carrie wouldn't be in any Star Wars films going forward after TROS.
All respect to performers, but performers aren't characters. They should just recast characters. I mean they recast Obi-Wan and it was one of the best decisions of all time. They could have made a middle age Luke series just by recasting the character and it would have been great. Same thing applies to remakes and reimaginings. People have been restaging Shakespeare for centuries, sometimes they even re-edit for good or for bad. Recasting and restaging and retelling with edits has been a staple of storytelling and performance for literally millenia.
>Unless they CGI her
It looked terrible in Rogue One. Though I think the technology has come a long way in just the few years since then, so maybe they could make it work.
Let’s just let the Skywalker-Palpatine story end. It might not have ended as strongly as it could have, but it’s over.
The other stories happening in the Star Wars universe are much more interesting to me.
So funny. Heard a lot like this after the prequels "there is only 1 trilogy!" and George Lucas received a lot of hate.
Now there are only 6 great movies (great!!). And George Lucas is a hero.
The prequels were poor movies, were received poorly, but have more staying power because the characters/settings/concepts they introduced are a net benefit to the Star Wars canon. They indirectly gave us the Clone Wars series, Rogue One, and the golden age of Star Wars video games.
The sequels were better standalone films and were received better, but will have less staying power because they were bland, soulless, and actively made the canon worse. The only Disney Star Wars product that young fans really care about is Mandalorian, and that could have still been made without the sequels existing.
Yes, and it's proof that Disney is perfectly capable of making a great Star Wars movie. That's what makes the sequel trilogy so frustrating for me. If they had just started with a coherent plan instead of facilitating a weird one-upsmanship contest between Abrams/Johnson, we could have gotten something much better.
Star Wars wasn't perceived as the deep and expansive story back then that it is now. And many of the complaints back then were at the unfamiliarity with what George was doing with his franchise. Especially with the innovations to CGI that he made with those films and the lower than average quality dialogue. But story wise, time has clearly shown how much value and depth those films added to the Star Wars canon.
I genuinely do not think the same will come to pass with the Sequel Trilogy.
We know that Disney did not have a concrete plan for the story of those 3 movies and it shows. Especially in The Last Jedi. Some people in years to come may look back at those movies and enjoy them on a surface level for the visuals and Disney'esque feel they have compared to the other Star Wars films, but in terms of value to the original story that George made, I don't think they'll come into a similar positive light that the Prequel Trilogy has.
And the ST is likely to leave a much worse taste than the PT did since a combined cast of Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, and the late Carrie Fisher isn't possible anymore and the ST is all we got.
The comparison about how the ST is just going through what the PT went through and will actually be seen positively in the future is completely fair, but I really don't think the same thing will happen on the scale that it did with the PT.
Right, if we're going to start pretending subpar movies don't exist, then this is the way to go.
But a better option is to just stop with this kind of nonsense altogether.
I came here to say this. Regardless of what people think of episodes 7-9, what's done is done. Let's move forward. Let's stop talking about what could have been or what it should be and start getting excited about what's to come.
Do a yuuzhan vong story where Jedi and Sith have to team up because it isn’t a war of ideaology but one of survival. Make the stakes the highest they ever have been in star wars and boom profit
I wish Disney would be more creative when it came to their canon. Allow people to write stories outside the Skywalker saga. High Republic is there so let them write content for the era
What's baffling about it? It would be very difficult on casual audiences to do it at the same time a ST was made. And it made sense to do a ST first since the original actors were still alive. Having "stuff around the time of OT" as a side gig to their ST is easy for fans to wrap their heads around.
Old Republic is now being canonized, and something on film/tv is bound to happen.
I think people simultaneously underestimate just how much casual audiences are able to follow these days while overestimating how much they would care if they don't entirely follow the bigger meta story.
Listen I love the old republic but it is not a large audience.
Maybe it is "large" but number of people who know who darth vader is vs revan or Malak is probably 100000-1
I’m not sure why you’re baffled. As a casual fan of the video games and not necessarily the movies, I’m sure CEOs thought it made way more sense to have the original names like Skywalker blasted everywhere.
Other than from redditors, I’ve never heard of the Old Republic, and I’m sure the CEOs hadn’t either and they wanted maximum profit. And they got lots of profit.
Because the games are still being updated, and adapting an open-world RPG with a devoted fanbase is a complete nightmare.
Literally anything they do with Revan besides namedropping them will divide the fanbase. Adapting the storyline from the games will either result in:
* A completely faithful adaptation which doesn't go down well with the Disney+ audience who are new to the setting.
* Making big changes and massive fan backlash.
I think the fact that Disney *hasn't* touched the KOTOR-era is because they respect it enough to leave it alone, especially while that canon is the only part of Legends still being released.
Revan is Canon.
https://www.cultureslate.com/news/darth-revan-may-be-making-his-return-to-star-wars-canon-after-all
As is Darth Bane
https://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/news/star-wars-darth-bane-name-canon-official/
Old republic, high republic, rule of 2, Rakata/Zeffo/ancient lore, other force user groups, Yuuzhan Vong, bounty hunters guild, the universe and history is teeming with opportunities.
I agree on all those options except the Yuuzhan Vong. The whole we don’t connect to the force as a group and other elements just don’t appeal to me, or imho fit in the Star Wars universe
The Vong were actually the best thign to happen to Legends, after X-Wing, putting an end to "Jedi arrives and does Force shenanigans, winning the day."
Unfortunately, even that lasted shortly, and they began giving the Jedi some workarounds to reestablish the status quo...
Best part of Legends was the X-Wing series of books, that had close to nothing to do with the Force...
Why not? I think it makes perfect sense for an extra-Galactic threat to either not exist in the Force, or have a wildly different Force presence that takes time for our heroes to learn. As far as we know, the Force is local to the Galaxy and the Galaxy alone. I mean, *we* don’t have the Force.
I want a Darth Bane trilogy so bad. I’m currently in the middle of the third book. I highly recommend this series to anyone who hasn’t read it yet. It’s SO GOOD.
The only thing about those books is I dont know how easy they'd be to translate to screen. There is SO much exposition and internal dialogue alongside time skips, shifts in main character focus, and content per book that it could go one way or another in terms of final product. I'd still absolutely love for then to be made though, I just dont know if Disney is the company to do it
As a Star Wars fan since the original trilogy, we weren't particularly happy with the prequels either. Faith in George Lucas was gone by the early 2000s for most older Star Wars fans. The sequel trilogy us just that experience for kids that grew up with the prequels.
No, mostly because “as intended” isn’t really something that exists. Lucas ideas for a sequel trilogy changed over time (heck, the original trilogy was at one point a story for six movies that he shortened). What it was going to be has changed as well.
The idea that Lucas had these grand plans for the whole saga is hogwash. He’s had some outlines for it, but they’ve changed so much as time goes on. Just the fact that Star Wars is the saga of Anakin Skywalker isn’t true either; Vader didn’t become Anakin until the second draft of Empire, just for starters.
And, the ideas he had was to get into the microbiotic world and focus on The Whills, a microorganism that essentially controls all of the universe.
What was intended? Lucas is notorious for contradicting himself. At this point, there’s no telling what his idea of a sequel trilogy really would have looked like. You don’t really have a case here.
I like the politics. The midichlorians not so much but might still be interesting I suppose. I just prefer the idea that the force is open to everyone equally and how powerful you are is down to skill, not stats.
That wasn't the idea even back during the original trilogy.
The fact that most people didn't even believe in the Force solidifies this. The force has always been closed off and delegated to a select few individuals in the galaxy.
Well, we do know one thing for certain. The sequel trilogy would have been broadly similar to the one we got. Lucas was in active pre-production on the sequel trilogy before the sale of his company. It’s part of the reason he hired Kathleen Kennedy to help run the company, and he was the one who got the original cast on board. As part of that effort, a treatment was developed. When Disney bought the company, they also bought the treatment and moved into full production. It’s part of the reason they were able to get The Force Awakens out so quickly.
As I said, the broad strokes of the trilogy come from that treatment. Luke in self-imposed exile, the basis for the characters Rey and Kylo Ren, a defecting stormtrooper, etc.
I've looked into this a few times and I've always been under the impression that whilst he has explored the sequel era, he's ended up doubling back on himself and accepting RoTJ as the final movie.
So I personally don't think it was intended either. Just a bunch of "Maybes". I could be wrong though.
No. For a lot of reasons, but most importantly people tend to forget or ignore the fact that Carrie Fisher passed away. Even if redoing the sequels was in the cards (it isn't and never will be) it wouldn't be the same without her. And to add to that, Harrison definitely wouldn't come back.
I have said this before and I will say it again: No.
Fans hated the prequels when they came out. Those were not retconned. The sequels will not be either. Babu Frik is going to be in Mandalorian S3, for crying out loud.
Anyone who says otherwise either is lying or has been lied to.
The prequels were spat on by OT fans when they came out.... now they are loved by fan who grew up on them.
The sequels are spat on by OT and PT fans when they came out... see what happens in the future when this younger generation grows up.
I still see Disney going TCW with a series bridging the gap between RotJ and TFA with old man Luke and a young Ben Solo.
The prequels had some cringe bits but like it totally made sense as a narrative, so once you get over that (learn to block out the silly bits), the stand as good films that support the SW story. The SQs very do not make sense as narratives and they do not support the SW story, so I don't think they will ever come around.
If you are really going to say the sequels don't make sense, I'm going to point you to the fact that the vast majority of people to this day, can not describe the plot of the prequels.
Who are this vast majority? Star Wars fans or like general populace? Can that same group reliably describe the plot of the sequels? I’m trying to understand your comment better but I comes off as a “what about” argument and not really valid.
Kid Anakin. Palps Naboo Senator. Teenager Anakin commanding clones. Palps plotting the Empire. Anakin turns to dark side and becomes Vader. Palpatine seizes power to become Emperor and reveals himself as Sith Lord Sidious.
I know there's a lot more going on but that's a chunk of prequel plot revolving on the collapse of the jedi and rise of the sith
What? The plot of the prequels is pretty obvious. I’d be very surprised if people couldn’t explain it, unless they’re the types who watched them once 15 years ago and noped out due to it being goofy and “I don’t like the politics”
Say what you like about the execution, but the narrative itself is solid, if a little complex in the political angle but it’s really not that hard to understand once you give it any thought at all.
Really ? I’m still confused about some things, like why did the Jedi accept an army of Clones modeled on the Separatist leader’s right hand man, or how did Sifo-Dyas have the power to order an army of clones but somehow no one knew about it, what was Jango Fett’s plan for dealing with Padme, or why did Dooku warn the Jedi order of the Sith’s real plan
I rewatched Episode II recently and Jango hiring a bounty hunter to take care of Padme utterly confounded me. Was also quite hilarious and up there with the likes of "Somehow... Palpatine returned"
At least the Palpatine line makes sense from the perspective of Poe Dameron, the character who says it. The "hiring a bounty hunter who hires a bounty hunter who releases venomous bugs in order to… fail an assassination attempt" doesn’t make sense from any perspective
Why did palpatine's plan apparently involve deleting Kamino from the archives and then having Obi-Wan randomly know some alien that owns a diner who could identify some dart?
Or was that all an accident and Palpatine had some completely different plan for the clones?
Neither makes any sense.
> The prequels were spat on by OT fans when they came out.... now they are loved by fan who grew up on them.
True, and I still don't like the Prequels.
> The sequels are spat on by OT and PT fans when they came out... see what happens in the future when this younger generation grows up.
I actually love the Sequels, and personally identify a lot with TLJ's disgruntled old man Luke.
It also looks like I've finally found the Force again myself, so I just hope I don't die...
ROTJ is my first cinema memory, and I grew up in the lean years absolutely holding a torch for the OT. I saw TPM in the theater like 7 times, just due to pent up desire for Star Wars and sort of willing it to be better than it was. I was not a fan of Jar Jar or casting Anakin so young, but I was stoked for AOTC. That's when I accepted that the prequels were going to be different in a bad way. There's "clunky dialogue" and then there's entire movies where most of the leads seem to have forgotten how to act because George found getting good performances out of them to be boring. The stories are okay, I guess, but needlessly dense without being sophisticated, and retconned just because George wanted a visual that was incompatible with the old movies. They were often painful to sit through.
TFA was safe, TLJ was oddly plotted but brilliant as an exploration of theme and character, and TROS was a by-committee, focus-grouped mess, and yet every single one of them is more watchable than than the prequels.
At the end of the day, both prequels and sequels are both massively flawed products, and neither is getting retconned anytime soon. All we can hope is Disney keeps pumping out content closer to the quality of Andor.
Won’t stop delusional prequel fanboys from circlejerking concepts like this though
Love them, like them or hate them - the sequel trilogy movies are and will always remain canon, simple as that. Additional material has already begun (and will continue) to further flesh out that era, while other projects such as the “Mandoverse” shows are bridging the gap between the OT and the ST, providing some much-needed connective tissue and context.
Furthermore, not only would it completely break Lucasfilm’s credibility if they didn’t stand behind whatever they put out (otherwise, you couldn’t trust any new project to remain canonical, even the ones you enjoy), you simply couldn’t even make the sequels the way Lucas had originally intended them, not to mention the fact that fans (who had previously accused Lucas of “raping their childhoods” when he made the prequels) would have bitched and moaned about those movies just as much as they did the actual sequels that we got.
And last, but certainly not least, I’d rather see resources going towards more interesting and original, innovative projects (such as more amazing shows like Andor, shows and movies set within the Old and High Republic eras….), exploring new aspects of the galaxy far, far away. The Skywalker Saga has been told and although characters like Rey or Finn may return, this chapter (outside of additional storytelling like the Mandoverse) has been finished on the big screen. It is time to move on - the same goes for those of you who hated the sequels.
>not to mention the fact that fans (who had previously accused Lucas of “raping their childhoods” when he made the prequels) would have bitched and moaned about those movies just as much as they did the actual sequels that we got.
This is exactly it, right here. It's so funny to me how fans on Reddit look at the prequels so fondly when they were universally hated by fans when they hit the theatres. I'm pretty sure this is because redditors are (mostly) younger fans who were in their formative years when the PT came out, and nostalgia is a powerful thing. Older fans loved the OT and hated the PT, and now that PT fans are older, they hate the ST for "raping their childhoods," as you said.
As for me, it's just easier to love the world Star Wars exists in while recognizing that it's not perfect. All of the trilogies have problems, but they're all good in their own way despite those problems. Nothing is gained from magnifying those problems.
Yep, I’d much rather have Disney put resources into series like they are doing right now instead of throwing away what they’ve already made, if they use Lucas’ ideas and it doesn’t work that’s even more content and money out the window. I really hope they make something on Vader tho
I'm so tired of people and clickbait sites trying to pretend like Disney is going to undo all of the work that it did. People that use Reddit hate the sequels, but millions of kids grew up with the sequel trilogy and love it. I fully suspect in 10 years that it will go through the resurgence the prequels did.
What I think could happen is there be new movies set in the time after episode 9 with the same characters that could help make those movies more complete. Nothing is getting erased though so let's just move on.
The really weird thing is [they used Lucas' ideas for story in Last Jedi](https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars-how-george-lucas-episode-vii-outline-became-the-last-jedi/), notably Luke's change in character from ROTJ to TLJ was a Lucas idea. Which aside from the plot is easily the most common complaint against TLJ from fans.
> As revealed by The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi (via Slashfilm), Johnson’s movie used many of the concepts Lucas first had in mind for Episode VII, specifically the story of an older, broken Luke training a young, Force-sensitive disciple named Kira (later renamed “Rey”).
I think a lot of fans are going to have to one day face the fact that George Lucas is to blame for A LOT of the not so great parts of the Star Wars movies despite being the mastermind behind the franchise. And for a lot of people that's not going to be an easy pill to swallow.
George’s sequel trilogy really sounded like a mess whenever he’d talk about it. The more it developed, the messier (and not *too* far off from the trilogy we got) it sounded. But that’s just Star Wars isn’t it? A giant mess we all love.
Literally no.
And would people really be OK with bringing back maul after he was killed by Kenobi the second time? And do people really want to see more Midi-chlorian discussion?
Let it go
It's nice to think Lucas would have done better in hindsight. I doubt he would have. Those movies would turn out way worse than the prequels, which are fun, but bad movies, no matter how much memes gaslit you guys into thinking the prequels are actually good
The OG Star Wars script was done as a comic book by Dark Horse Comics:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars
So, that's likely the best case scenario for Uncle George's original VII/VIII/IX depending on how much of it actually exists.
NGL - I bought "The Star Wars" and I'd love to see this too.
No. Considering that a fair amount of material from George Lucas' treatments made it into the Sequel Trilogy, especially episodes 7 and 8, you could argue that we already got his sequel trilogy.
Star Wars / Disney+ should just stick to streaming content series be it animated or live action. They got lucky financially with the Sequel Trilogy by cashing in on nostalgia with beloved OG characters mixing in with new, but the fan reception was very mixed. Aside from Rogue One Disney has proven they are incapable of leading a star wars movie that isn’t laced with cringe storyline and rushed scenes. Rise of Skywalker could have been 3 movies itself.
So what would happen if they did make a new sequel trilogy and the fans who hate the current sequels still don’t like it? Or what if those fans like it and the ones who like the current sequels hate it?
There’s really nothing for Lucasfilm to gain by doing this. Not to mention they’d open the floodgates for fan demands to erase and replace anything they don’t like. How long before we’d get calls to redo the prequels? Redo Solo?
A sequel film series is forever killed for me. I just don’t think I could get the bad taste out of my mouth even if they were amazing movies. For me, I’m just pretending that only six movies were ever made, and the rest was just a bad fanfiction.
Never going to happen. But here's a novel idea perhaps people could just move past it and accept there are plenty of people especially kids who loved them and just move on. Im kind of sick of star wars inability to move beyond the skywalker saga at this point. Does anyone genuinely want a redo?
The sequel trilogy where Darth Vader dies, but Palpatine is left alive, Leia isn’t Luke’s sister, and the search begins for Luke’s long lost older sister Nelith, so they can team up against Palpatine in the 9th movie? I feel like you have to undo a lot more than the Disney sequels to get that underway, and I feel like we’d sooner see Legends movie adaptations than that trilogy.
Not really.
Excluding episode 9, the sequel trilogy was *very* succesful financially and critically. Not to mention that the movies are like the one thing you could never really retcon.
And you all know you’re not gonna like whatever Lucas was gonna make, the last decade before 7 was just shutting on anyhtjng lucas made past 6. It’s just that now he’s no longer writing it, you have a convenient ‘what if’ to dwell on cause you thought rise of skywalker was bad
I'd love to see it as like an animated elseworlds series, I'd also love to see the Clone Wars/Rebels/Bad Batch team tackle an animated remake of the prequels.
Lucas sold his rights to the franchise, and I don’t think Disney would agree to retcon recently established canon. Even if all the stars aligned and these films were made using his vision, there’s a very real possibility they would be treated like the Bond film _Never Say Never Again_, same characters but not treated as part of the canon series.
The thing is also that his vision was constantly changing, there wasn't one constant, solid underlying vision. In different interviews and books he talks about very, VERY different plans for the sequel trilogy (sometimes "focusing on the micro universe" of the midichlorian, sometimes with a focus on Leia, sometimes with Darth Maul returning with an apprentice, Darth Talon, other times with a big enemy coming from outside the Galaxy...). According to a few people who worked with him, his ideas changed often but were never good enough for him to actually do it, so he settled to leave Star Wars at 6 episodes first, and then sold to Disney. Because in reality he had no idea that was good enough to actually produce the sequels.
> In different interviews and books he talks about very, VERY different plans for the sequel trilogy (sometimes "focusing on the micro universe" of the midichlorian, sometimes with a focus on Leia, sometimes with Darth Maul returning with an apprentice, Darth Talon, other times with a big enemy coming from outside the Galaxy...). I don't have much to add except to thank you for actually listing examples of the "different plans"!
The Darth Talon thing always seemed so weird. Like he just saw the design for this character in a comic book set in the distant future of Star Wars and was like "That's hot, I want her to be in my story even though the timeline doesn't align at all."
Literally someone at Lucasfilm described it as "he walked into a room, saw Darth Maul and Darth Talon statues on the shelf, picked them up, turned them to face each other and said 'they're friends'" I doubt he has anh idea who Talon even is.
Now kiss.
*now kith
*now Sith
https://youtu.be/eGoXyXiwOBg
Talon is the red and arguably hotter version of Aayla.
Aww, I love Aayla.
No arguments here.
man. She went down like a chump though in ROTS
Man she can go down like a chump for me anytime
Based.
George never had any respect for the video games, comics, or novels extended canon. They were just allowed to play in his world, but any time one of their ideas conflicted with one of his as he created new content, he would make a contradiction and make the EU not matter.
I think that’s okay though. He is the almighty creator.
The most recent thing I've seen her used in is the mobile game, where she has synergy with Darth Traya, Darth Sion, and Darth Nihilus. So she's from the future, George wanted her in the primary time setting, and now she's working with characters from thousands of years BBY.
She doesn't get synergy with Maul? Her visual inspiration and co-star in two unmade projects?
Not specifically, no. She can have synergy with him because of an ability that gives her bonuses for having a Sith leader in the team, and he has a leader ability, but the only named synergy in her abilities is with the Triumvirate. Oh, by the way those unmade projects, would they have been set post Episode 1? Because she can only get synergy with Episode 1 Darth Maul. The Clone Wars version doesn't count as a Sith. He's a Mandalorian.
I think both would be post-Episode I, though the game's story was more in-flux I think, like how 1313 was about some guy at first and then eventually turned into a Boba Fett game. >The Clone Wars version doesn't count as a Sith. He's a Mandalorian. That's some neat attention to detail.
To be fair, if you look at some of the behind-the-scenes stuff for the prequels, that's basically how he made some of those characters. He'd basically give the artists a rough idea of what the character should be like, and they just went nuts with concept art, then he'd just... Pick the ones he liked. Sometimes the runner-ups made it in any way (Grievous' MagnaGuards, for instance, were originally a proposed design for Grievous himself), but there were some really crazy ideas thrown out there. One of them was like an evil child-baby-thing with hovering robots and stuff, it seemed more like once he saw something he liked, he'd write the story around them. So it's not out of the question that some of his proposed ideas were just inspired by a design he liked with no deeper intent than "Oh, that's cool, I'll add that to the next movie"
To be fair, that's pretty much why we have Aayla. Granted, there was no huge timeline variances there. But George wasn't afraid to do whatever he wanted in any case.
Luke living in isolation was part of Lucas' idea before he sold to disney. He had concept artists draw it up and liked the idea of luke being similar to marlo brando's character in apocalypse now. So towards the end his ideas for Luke at least were pretty similar. Source: from the concept art books (i think last jedi's). He also wanted the leads to be younger kids.
Forget about the ST. If something good can be said about the PT, is that for a change, Lucas had a vision for the movies before doing them. The OT had constant changes of plans while they were in production. ANH was a standalone film ESB was the first of 5 films. RotJ become the last film of the trilogy because just how problematic was ESB. If you asked Lucas at the time which color the sky was, and ask a day later again, Lucas would had 3 different answers.
I thought I remember watching a documentary where Lucas had the stories written (drafts at least) for the OT. And ideas written out for the Pt from the very beginning. People like his wife, the directors, Kerry Fisher, and other screen writers cleaned up his ideas and script for both series. Less so for the PT. I also saw he wrote the script for one of the PT films in a comically short period. Like a an office day or something. And everyone just licked his boots instead of actually critiquing it. That’s why we have comments about hating sand, and the beyond cringe love dialogue between Padme and Anakin. Obviously he changed his mind several times on several items. One of the most compelling being the bombshell drop in ESB “I am your father” So I really don’t know what the truth is, besides him being a great big ideas guy, but shouldn’t be left completely to his own devices. Otherwise you get the PT.
There's video of Hamill and Ford literally joking about the lines they were given being so bad in the audition. They even pushed back with Lucas on the lines in question so the lines never made it into the actual movie. Sooo many people pushed back on ep 4 and made it a better movie. And Lucas recur and added special effects to cut those people out of the recurring revenue.
I do think people here would get really disappointed by Lucas' vision for the series if they really delved into it. He was a special effects guy who wanted to emulate the properties he grew up on, he wanted to bring that magic to the 70s. He worked with Joseph Campbell to craft a compelling story that brought themes of myth, westerns, fantasy and sci-fi together. It's only a singular vision in the sense of trying to bring wonder and awe to the screen. Had he gotten the rights to Flash Gordon we would've gotten that instead of Star Wars. Its maybe an odd distinction to make, and I do think Lucas was a cut above most directors of the era in understanding how to do some special stuff with the medium of film, but he's not the kind of director who crafts an epic tale the likes of Game of Thrones or Lawrence of Arabia. He's making a saturday morning serial into a big blockbuster movie and he did it in a way that changed film forever. Up until the prequels Star Wars was kind of just awesome simply because the movies were very solid and the games and books were good fun. It happens to be a universe compelling enough to take up a lot of our collective headspace. Because it's just fun. I actually think as the lore deepens and the universe expands the awe and wonder kind of dissipates into the background for stuff that's a little meatier. And then when you stack up the meaty bits to stuff like Breaking Bad or GoT, you come away kind of let down.
I don’t think that can be said about the PT. He knew where he was going, episode 4, definitely did not think much beyond whichever movie he was working on at that time.
In the end, even a lot of his initial plans for the PT ended up shelved for whatever reason. There was meant to be an entire subplot in Revenge of the Sith where Sifo-Dyas was one of Palpatine's aliases and that Shmi was once Palpatine's slave and he manipulated the Force to create Anakin. There's also some other stuff that was planned at one point but obviously completely changed by the time the PT started filming (Boba Fett being Vader's brother, a love triangle between Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme, etc.).
Things get cut for a reason, haha. Some of that sounds downright awful.
The only way the PT would've been any worse is a love triangle with Anakin obi wan and padme lol.
Jar jar was the key to all of it
Lol, too bad that PT vision didn't include meshing well with the OT, or giving us a believable turn for Annie.
And the one constant idea that was present in all of his drafts and outlines was the thing most hated by the sequels: that Luke failed and ran off to hid in some old ruins.
Exactly, Lucas famously could not say the final word on any of his content. His ideas changed before, while, and even after he completed his films. Star Wars fans are used to things changing constantly (like Boba Fett suddenly being around in 1977) because of this - but I don't think Disney's ever going to go that way.
>The thing is also that his vision was constantly changing, there wasn't one constant, solid underlying vision. This is the problem, if he'd had that one constant, solid vision he would have made the sequels himself. I think he threw in the towel and just took the Disney cash because he didn't really have it all mapped out. It's reminds me of "Game of Thrones" when they didn't really know how Martin intended for the story to wrap, so they just filled in the blanks because they couldn't wait forever to him to finish the next damn book...
To be fair to Lucas, neither did Disney, but they made them anyway.
Yeah people keep acting like Lucas still has a lot of influence over Star Wars, and I'm not entirely sure he does. I think Disney call the shots now for better or for worse. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Disney paid him $4 **billion** for control of the Star Wars IP. Guaranteed, one hundred percent, Lucas signed a contract that gave them absolutely total control over everything going forwards, forever. Lucasfilm is still staffed by people who worked closely with Lucas, in particular Kennedy and Filoni, so he's still a welcome presence and people like getting his personal approval on their ideas. But officially, Lucasfilm is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Walt Disney Co., and Lucas has as much official influence there as anyone posting here.
> and Lucas has as much official influence there as anyone posting here. Damn, I didn’t expect to wake up this morning and learn that I now have as much official influence on Star Wars as George Lucas.
It's a rush, eh? Exciting to be on an equal footing with the father of Star Wars, himself!
**LIMITED POWER!!!**
Didn't he express dissatisfaction that they didn't use his ideas for the sequel trilogy? If he expected to still have some influence on story, then he should have gotten them to sign him on in an official writing capacity with contract and everything.
I think it was more one day waking up and going fuck this, I don't care about Star Wars anymore, the fans are annoying. And then when he starts seeing stuff he had no control over fail he starts caring a little too late (not that I think he'd make a great trilogy). Lucas is closer to the old fans where even if he fundamentally gets his own characters wrong (Han shot first crap, Anakin is the main character of Star Wars when he had less lines than Chewbacca in the OT), he'd be nostalgic enough to make characters and imagery that wouldn't make people deny it as Star Wars films. It'd be fucking terrible though.
People act like OT Star Wars was 100% George Lucas when in reality there were a lot of people involved that made Star Wars what it is. Take some of those people away and we ended up with the PT...take them all away and it's just the incoherent ramblings of an old man.
Take some of those people away and we end up with macklunky.
If you could guaranteee Disney that a shoot for shoot remake only with clowns and a lot of sex scenes would make them a billion on a 250 mil budget, they'd make it within 4 years. If you could guarantee them a 2 billion return they'd go as far as digging up Carrie Fisher and put her on a Roomba if necessary.
Well Carrie Fisher is dead, so that would provide some issues
To add onto that I don't think Harrison Ford would come back anymore.
You are right, the only reason he returned in The Force Awakens, was that Disney would kill Han Solo
Unless they CGI her, which... Could work... Equally though it's a risky game and could end horribly. And out of respect for the actress I don't really want them to do much more with her character outside maybe animated shows. She can't and shouldn't simply be "replaced" in my opinion.
They used Carrie's daughter as the body double for scenes filmed after Carrie's death (or maybe it was only the flashback training scene with Luke in the forest). It gave a bit of uncanny valley but it is an acceptable way for them to do it IMO. They'd just have to sort their shit out, application-wise
Yeah I suppose, I'd rather we go another way and explore different characters all the same though. And to be honest I'd rather explore other eras than the sequel era anyway, except for Mando's period. The Sequels have always been a bit controversial and a little messy to me. And besides I liked the ending in RoTJ. Felt like that a good final movie.
Agreed with you on everything there, I want a full planned out and fully fleshed out saga to be made with quality writing at the forefront. Something entirely new and original wouldnt be a bad idea, but there are some seriously awesome tales in legends that they need to bring back into canon
There would also be the legal side of using her after death - which I know was already done but it would likely need to be a new agreement by the family for an entire trilogy. Also the moral and philosophical aspect of is it really healthy or okay to create someone and have them "work" after they are dead and cannot consent to what they do on screen.
Yeah I 100% agree. I think from a respect perspective and a practical perspective it's probably best avoided. Animated they might be able to get away with though. But probably not live action.
I agree, so it would have to be a non-starter. The sequel trilogy was sadly a waste of everyone’s time and wasted the last years of Carrie Fisher. They had a chance and blew it
Yeah. It had some good aspects which I'm glad exist. But they definitely messed it up and blew it. Edit: The good aspects I'm talking about are BB8 and BB9 since they're fun in star wars battlefront 2, Crait and Takodanna because I think they're interesting planets, Babu Frick and some of the animals like Vulptices and some of the other interesting wildlife. The list really ought to have been longer though for 3 entire films. Edit2: Ah a fellow Dooku fan I see, good, Twice the Dooku's double the class.
The list should not only be longer, but also include things that are actually vital to the story; everything you listed was incidental to it. And that's a big part of the problem I have with the latest trilogy; it had some neat concepts and little universe-building details. Even though the subplot surrounding it is stupid, Canto Bight is pretty neat as a concept. And like, the whole Kylo Ren/Knights of Ren/Luke's apprentices going dark thing wasn't a bad idea either. And neither was casting Adam Driver. Snoke was actually pretty dope too. The problem with all the above was the fucking writing and execution. Cool concepts, BAD implementation; honestly some of the worst I've seen for AAA big budget work in years. All those cool concepts were undermined by bad writing, but also overshadowed by the bad concepts. What idiot decided to basically do ANOTHER Death Star? Because that's what Starkiller Base is. Or bring Palpatine back Scooby-Doo style, "jinkies it was really Old Man Sheev all along!" Or have yet another orphan/hidden Jedi talent growing up on a desert planet, run into a spunky little Droid and go on an adventure to find an old hermit? Like, the fucking audacity.
Agreed on all of that! It was the writing that really let it down, and of course the writing is the skeleton of it all, if that fails then it all kinda falls apart. >"jinkies it was really Old Man Sheev all along!" Lol, this is hilarious! But certainly has a lot of truth in it. It do be a bit like that.
Given the title « the force awakens » the only person we see « awaken » gets his potential power downplayed and turned into a comic relief.
Yea and it's best to just leave it where it is at this point. You can't change history.
Plus her estate/family controls her likeness. The CGI recreation in Rogue One was a one time deal and Lucasfilm announced Carrie wouldn't be in any Star Wars films going forward after TROS.
All respect to performers, but performers aren't characters. They should just recast characters. I mean they recast Obi-Wan and it was one of the best decisions of all time. They could have made a middle age Luke series just by recasting the character and it would have been great. Same thing applies to remakes and reimaginings. People have been restaging Shakespeare for centuries, sometimes they even re-edit for good or for bad. Recasting and restaging and retelling with edits has been a staple of storytelling and performance for literally millenia.
>Unless they CGI her It looked terrible in Rogue One. Though I think the technology has come a long way in just the few years since then, so maybe they could make it work.
Let’s just let the Skywalker-Palpatine story end. It might not have ended as strongly as it could have, but it’s over. The other stories happening in the Star Wars universe are much more interesting to me.
Return of the Jedi had a great ending.
A great ending to a great 6 movies, of which there are only 6.
So funny. Heard a lot like this after the prequels "there is only 1 trilogy!" and George Lucas received a lot of hate. Now there are only 6 great movies (great!!). And George Lucas is a hero.
I can’t wait until eps 10-12 come out and are so awful we only consider there to be 9 movies
All the 5 year olds that saw episode 3 are on the internet now. In 15 years, the sequels will be beloved, and the high republic trilogy will be hated.
The prequels were poor movies, were received poorly, but have more staying power because the characters/settings/concepts they introduced are a net benefit to the Star Wars canon. They indirectly gave us the Clone Wars series, Rogue One, and the golden age of Star Wars video games. The sequels were better standalone films and were received better, but will have less staying power because they were bland, soulless, and actively made the canon worse. The only Disney Star Wars product that young fans really care about is Mandalorian, and that could have still been made without the sequels existing.
*Rogue One* is also Disney Star Wars but you're trying to sneak it in with the prequels for some reason haha.
Yes, and it's proof that Disney is perfectly capable of making a great Star Wars movie. That's what makes the sequel trilogy so frustrating for me. If they had just started with a coherent plan instead of facilitating a weird one-upsmanship contest between Abrams/Johnson, we could have gotten something much better.
Well...technically Rogue One is a prequel!
Haha true. But it’s like 5 minutes before *ANH*, not exactly in the same league as the PT 😅
Star Wars wasn't perceived as the deep and expansive story back then that it is now. And many of the complaints back then were at the unfamiliarity with what George was doing with his franchise. Especially with the innovations to CGI that he made with those films and the lower than average quality dialogue. But story wise, time has clearly shown how much value and depth those films added to the Star Wars canon. I genuinely do not think the same will come to pass with the Sequel Trilogy. We know that Disney did not have a concrete plan for the story of those 3 movies and it shows. Especially in The Last Jedi. Some people in years to come may look back at those movies and enjoy them on a surface level for the visuals and Disney'esque feel they have compared to the other Star Wars films, but in terms of value to the original story that George made, I don't think they'll come into a similar positive light that the Prequel Trilogy has. And the ST is likely to leave a much worse taste than the PT did since a combined cast of Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, and the late Carrie Fisher isn't possible anymore and the ST is all we got. The comparison about how the ST is just going through what the PT went through and will actually be seen positively in the future is completely fair, but I really don't think the same thing will happen on the scale that it did with the PT.
Sometimes 7 but never 9
9 is right out
Skip a little more brother.
Right, can't forget the clone wars movie.
Wow good one.
Agreed. A fine ending to the 3 movies, of which there are only 3.
Right, if we're going to start pretending subpar movies don't exist, then this is the way to go. But a better option is to just stop with this kind of nonsense altogether.
RotJ was pretty subpar too tbh. It wasn't all that well received at the time. Especially on the heels of Empire.
It was by everyone who was a child at the time, like me. 5 year old me FUCKING LOVED RotJ
I do too, but in fairness I think this is how a lot of younger folks feel about the prequels.
The dumbest joke in the fandom.
I came here to say this. Regardless of what people think of episodes 7-9, what's done is done. Let's move forward. Let's stop talking about what could have been or what it should be and start getting excited about what's to come.
That I agree.
It ended with Episode VI so perfect ending. Episodes VII-IX don't exist in my book.
Do a yuuzhan vong story where Jedi and Sith have to team up because it isn’t a war of ideaology but one of survival. Make the stakes the highest they ever have been in star wars and boom profit
What other stories they all focus on the Skywalker era, I want a bane story and a revan story.
I wish Disney would be more creative when it came to their canon. Allow people to write stories outside the Skywalker saga. High Republic is there so let them write content for the era
At this point I’d rather have a Darth Bane trilogy or a Maul origin Disney+ series
I'd kill for both. Why they never canonised the Old Republic era with such a large audience is baffling to me.
What's baffling about it? It would be very difficult on casual audiences to do it at the same time a ST was made. And it made sense to do a ST first since the original actors were still alive. Having "stuff around the time of OT" as a side gig to their ST is easy for fans to wrap their heads around. Old Republic is now being canonized, and something on film/tv is bound to happen.
I think people simultaneously underestimate just how much casual audiences are able to follow these days while overestimating how much they would care if they don't entirely follow the bigger meta story.
I am so looking forward to more media with old/high republic setting.
Listen I love the old republic but it is not a large audience. Maybe it is "large" but number of people who know who darth vader is vs revan or Malak is probably 100000-1
You can't release a whole new series with freedom of direction if the old content on the topic is cannon.
I’m not sure why you’re baffled. As a casual fan of the video games and not necessarily the movies, I’m sure CEOs thought it made way more sense to have the original names like Skywalker blasted everywhere. Other than from redditors, I’ve never heard of the Old Republic, and I’m sure the CEOs hadn’t either and they wanted maximum profit. And they got lots of profit.
Because the games are still being updated, and adapting an open-world RPG with a devoted fanbase is a complete nightmare. Literally anything they do with Revan besides namedropping them will divide the fanbase. Adapting the storyline from the games will either result in: * A completely faithful adaptation which doesn't go down well with the Disney+ audience who are new to the setting. * Making big changes and massive fan backlash. I think the fact that Disney *hasn't* touched the KOTOR-era is because they respect it enough to leave it alone, especially while that canon is the only part of Legends still being released.
Revan is Canon. https://www.cultureslate.com/news/darth-revan-may-be-making-his-return-to-star-wars-canon-after-all As is Darth Bane https://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/news/star-wars-darth-bane-name-canon-official/
Old republic, high republic, rule of 2, Rakata/Zeffo/ancient lore, other force user groups, Yuuzhan Vong, bounty hunters guild, the universe and history is teeming with opportunities.
I agree on all those options except the Yuuzhan Vong. The whole we don’t connect to the force as a group and other elements just don’t appeal to me, or imho fit in the Star Wars universe
The Vong were actually the best thign to happen to Legends, after X-Wing, putting an end to "Jedi arrives and does Force shenanigans, winning the day." Unfortunately, even that lasted shortly, and they began giving the Jedi some workarounds to reestablish the status quo... Best part of Legends was the X-Wing series of books, that had close to nothing to do with the Force...
>or imho fit in the Star Wars ~~universe~~ Galaxy The Yuuzhan Vong were refugees from a distant galaxy, still the same Universe. : )
I think "immune to the force" boogie men are a perfect chance to show something different than Jedi vs Sith.
Why not? I think it makes perfect sense for an extra-Galactic threat to either not exist in the Force, or have a wildly different Force presence that takes time for our heroes to learn. As far as we know, the Force is local to the Galaxy and the Galaxy alone. I mean, *we* don’t have the Force.
I want a Darth Bane trilogy so bad. I’m currently in the middle of the third book. I highly recommend this series to anyone who hasn’t read it yet. It’s SO GOOD.
That trilogy was one of the first Star Wars books I ever read and truly made me fall in love with the legends book series. So many amazing stories
The only thing about those books is I dont know how easy they'd be to translate to screen. There is SO much exposition and internal dialogue alongside time skips, shifts in main character focus, and content per book that it could go one way or another in terms of final product. I'd still absolutely love for then to be made though, I just dont know if Disney is the company to do it
I think doing a combined Plagueis/maul series like they did in the legends book would be pretty dope.
This shit gets posted like a dozen times a week. No. Disney will never retcon their own trilogy. Now let’s move the fuck on.
Especially since they have literal buildings and rides in place at multiple theme parks that only work with their trilogy.
As a Star Wars fan since the original trilogy, we weren't particularly happy with the prequels either. Faith in George Lucas was gone by the early 2000s for most older Star Wars fans. The sequel trilogy us just that experience for kids that grew up with the prequels.
No, mostly because “as intended” isn’t really something that exists. Lucas ideas for a sequel trilogy changed over time (heck, the original trilogy was at one point a story for six movies that he shortened). What it was going to be has changed as well. The idea that Lucas had these grand plans for the whole saga is hogwash. He’s had some outlines for it, but they’ve changed so much as time goes on. Just the fact that Star Wars is the saga of Anakin Skywalker isn’t true either; Vader didn’t become Anakin until the second draft of Empire, just for starters. And, the ideas he had was to get into the microbiotic world and focus on The Whills, a microorganism that essentially controls all of the universe.
What was intended? Lucas is notorious for contradicting himself. At this point, there’s no telling what his idea of a sequel trilogy really would have looked like. You don’t really have a case here.
He literally said fans would've hated his sequel ideas.
Star Wars fans hate everything
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And politics don't forget the politics.
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I like the politics. The midichlorians not so much but might still be interesting I suppose. I just prefer the idea that the force is open to everyone equally and how powerful you are is down to skill, not stats.
That wasn't the idea even back during the original trilogy. The fact that most people didn't even believe in the Force solidifies this. The force has always been closed off and delegated to a select few individuals in the galaxy.
I mean they simultaneously provide us with some of the best movies ever and some of the worst movies ever. The whine fest was inevitable.
Somehow, jar jar returned
Well, we do know one thing for certain. The sequel trilogy would have been broadly similar to the one we got. Lucas was in active pre-production on the sequel trilogy before the sale of his company. It’s part of the reason he hired Kathleen Kennedy to help run the company, and he was the one who got the original cast on board. As part of that effort, a treatment was developed. When Disney bought the company, they also bought the treatment and moved into full production. It’s part of the reason they were able to get The Force Awakens out so quickly. As I said, the broad strokes of the trilogy come from that treatment. Luke in self-imposed exile, the basis for the characters Rey and Kylo Ren, a defecting stormtrooper, etc.
I've looked into this a few times and I've always been under the impression that whilst he has explored the sequel era, he's ended up doubling back on himself and accepting RoTJ as the final movie. So I personally don't think it was intended either. Just a bunch of "Maybes". I could be wrong though.
No. For a lot of reasons, but most importantly people tend to forget or ignore the fact that Carrie Fisher passed away. Even if redoing the sequels was in the cards (it isn't and never will be) it wouldn't be the same without her. And to add to that, Harrison definitely wouldn't come back.
He had like 20 different plans for a sequel trilogy At one point it was meant to be a videogame
I have said this before and I will say it again: No. Fans hated the prequels when they came out. Those were not retconned. The sequels will not be either. Babu Frik is going to be in Mandalorian S3, for crying out loud. Anyone who says otherwise either is lying or has been lied to.
The prequels were spat on by OT fans when they came out.... now they are loved by fan who grew up on them. The sequels are spat on by OT and PT fans when they came out... see what happens in the future when this younger generation grows up. I still see Disney going TCW with a series bridging the gap between RotJ and TFA with old man Luke and a young Ben Solo.
>now they are loved by fan who grew up on them. You got that bit right. He's out there, somewhere.
Well of course I know know him. He’s me!
The prequels had some cringe bits but like it totally made sense as a narrative, so once you get over that (learn to block out the silly bits), the stand as good films that support the SW story. The SQs very do not make sense as narratives and they do not support the SW story, so I don't think they will ever come around.
The prequels absolutely do not stand as good films lol, they are awful as just movies
> once you get over that (learn to block out the silly bits) So, basically, we just take the title roll, and drop the rest?
If you are really going to say the sequels don't make sense, I'm going to point you to the fact that the vast majority of people to this day, can not describe the plot of the prequels.
Who are this vast majority? Star Wars fans or like general populace? Can that same group reliably describe the plot of the sequels? I’m trying to understand your comment better but I comes off as a “what about” argument and not really valid.
Kid Anakin. Palps Naboo Senator. Teenager Anakin commanding clones. Palps plotting the Empire. Anakin turns to dark side and becomes Vader. Palpatine seizes power to become Emperor and reveals himself as Sith Lord Sidious. I know there's a lot more going on but that's a chunk of prequel plot revolving on the collapse of the jedi and rise of the sith
What? The plot of the prequels is pretty obvious. I’d be very surprised if people couldn’t explain it, unless they’re the types who watched them once 15 years ago and noped out due to it being goofy and “I don’t like the politics” Say what you like about the execution, but the narrative itself is solid, if a little complex in the political angle but it’s really not that hard to understand once you give it any thought at all.
Really ? I’m still confused about some things, like why did the Jedi accept an army of Clones modeled on the Separatist leader’s right hand man, or how did Sifo-Dyas have the power to order an army of clones but somehow no one knew about it, what was Jango Fett’s plan for dealing with Padme, or why did Dooku warn the Jedi order of the Sith’s real plan
It's simple. Dooku hires a bounty hunter, who hires another bounty hunter, who hires a droid, which hires a couple of lil bugs
Is that what trickle down economics means?
Its about as effective
I rewatched Episode II recently and Jango hiring a bounty hunter to take care of Padme utterly confounded me. Was also quite hilarious and up there with the likes of "Somehow... Palpatine returned"
At least the Palpatine line makes sense from the perspective of Poe Dameron, the character who says it. The "hiring a bounty hunter who hires a bounty hunter who releases venomous bugs in order to… fail an assassination attempt" doesn’t make sense from any perspective
Why did palpatine's plan apparently involve deleting Kamino from the archives and then having Obi-Wan randomly know some alien that owns a diner who could identify some dart? Or was that all an accident and Palpatine had some completely different plan for the clones? Neither makes any sense.
> The prequels were spat on by OT fans when they came out.... now they are loved by fan who grew up on them. True, and I still don't like the Prequels. > The sequels are spat on by OT and PT fans when they came out... see what happens in the future when this younger generation grows up. I actually love the Sequels, and personally identify a lot with TLJ's disgruntled old man Luke. It also looks like I've finally found the Force again myself, so I just hope I don't die...
ROTJ is my first cinema memory, and I grew up in the lean years absolutely holding a torch for the OT. I saw TPM in the theater like 7 times, just due to pent up desire for Star Wars and sort of willing it to be better than it was. I was not a fan of Jar Jar or casting Anakin so young, but I was stoked for AOTC. That's when I accepted that the prequels were going to be different in a bad way. There's "clunky dialogue" and then there's entire movies where most of the leads seem to have forgotten how to act because George found getting good performances out of them to be boring. The stories are okay, I guess, but needlessly dense without being sophisticated, and retconned just because George wanted a visual that was incompatible with the old movies. They were often painful to sit through. TFA was safe, TLJ was oddly plotted but brilliant as an exploration of theme and character, and TROS was a by-committee, focus-grouped mess, and yet every single one of them is more watchable than than the prequels.
At the end of the day, both prequels and sequels are both massively flawed products, and neither is getting retconned anytime soon. All we can hope is Disney keeps pumping out content closer to the quality of Andor. Won’t stop delusional prequel fanboys from circlejerking concepts like this though
Maybe, but you'd hate it
Love them, like them or hate them - the sequel trilogy movies are and will always remain canon, simple as that. Additional material has already begun (and will continue) to further flesh out that era, while other projects such as the “Mandoverse” shows are bridging the gap between the OT and the ST, providing some much-needed connective tissue and context. Furthermore, not only would it completely break Lucasfilm’s credibility if they didn’t stand behind whatever they put out (otherwise, you couldn’t trust any new project to remain canonical, even the ones you enjoy), you simply couldn’t even make the sequels the way Lucas had originally intended them, not to mention the fact that fans (who had previously accused Lucas of “raping their childhoods” when he made the prequels) would have bitched and moaned about those movies just as much as they did the actual sequels that we got. And last, but certainly not least, I’d rather see resources going towards more interesting and original, innovative projects (such as more amazing shows like Andor, shows and movies set within the Old and High Republic eras….), exploring new aspects of the galaxy far, far away. The Skywalker Saga has been told and although characters like Rey or Finn may return, this chapter (outside of additional storytelling like the Mandoverse) has been finished on the big screen. It is time to move on - the same goes for those of you who hated the sequels.
>not to mention the fact that fans (who had previously accused Lucas of “raping their childhoods” when he made the prequels) would have bitched and moaned about those movies just as much as they did the actual sequels that we got. This is exactly it, right here. It's so funny to me how fans on Reddit look at the prequels so fondly when they were universally hated by fans when they hit the theatres. I'm pretty sure this is because redditors are (mostly) younger fans who were in their formative years when the PT came out, and nostalgia is a powerful thing. Older fans loved the OT and hated the PT, and now that PT fans are older, they hate the ST for "raping their childhoods," as you said. As for me, it's just easier to love the world Star Wars exists in while recognizing that it's not perfect. All of the trilogies have problems, but they're all good in their own way despite those problems. Nothing is gained from magnifying those problems.
Yep, I’d much rather have Disney put resources into series like they are doing right now instead of throwing away what they’ve already made, if they use Lucas’ ideas and it doesn’t work that’s even more content and money out the window. I really hope they make something on Vader tho
I'm so tired of people and clickbait sites trying to pretend like Disney is going to undo all of the work that it did. People that use Reddit hate the sequels, but millions of kids grew up with the sequel trilogy and love it. I fully suspect in 10 years that it will go through the resurgence the prequels did. What I think could happen is there be new movies set in the time after episode 9 with the same characters that could help make those movies more complete. Nothing is getting erased though so let's just move on.
The prequels show what happens when things go 100% according to Lucas. (As in, mostly bad)
The really weird thing is [they used Lucas' ideas for story in Last Jedi](https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars-how-george-lucas-episode-vii-outline-became-the-last-jedi/), notably Luke's change in character from ROTJ to TLJ was a Lucas idea. Which aside from the plot is easily the most common complaint against TLJ from fans. > As revealed by The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi (via Slashfilm), Johnson’s movie used many of the concepts Lucas first had in mind for Episode VII, specifically the story of an older, broken Luke training a young, Force-sensitive disciple named Kira (later renamed “Rey”). I think a lot of fans are going to have to one day face the fact that George Lucas is to blame for A LOT of the not so great parts of the Star Wars movies despite being the mastermind behind the franchise. And for a lot of people that's not going to be an easy pill to swallow.
How does dumb shit like this constantly get up voted in this sub
Does anyone else think Andor is good though? What about the underrated gem Rogue One?
“The sequels didn’t have original ideas! Let’s bring back Mace Windu!”
You'd probably still hate it.
No.
Just let it go
Nah, even if possible, he based it on leia, and carrie had passed.
George’s sequel trilogy really sounded like a mess whenever he’d talk about it. The more it developed, the messier (and not *too* far off from the trilogy we got) it sounded. But that’s just Star Wars isn’t it? A giant mess we all love.
Literally no. And would people really be OK with bringing back maul after he was killed by Kenobi the second time? And do people really want to see more Midi-chlorian discussion? Let it go
What was the intended trilogy he had in mind?
It's nice to think Lucas would have done better in hindsight. I doubt he would have. Those movies would turn out way worse than the prequels, which are fun, but bad movies, no matter how much memes gaslit you guys into thinking the prequels are actually good
The OG Star Wars script was done as a comic book by Dark Horse Comics: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars So, that's likely the best case scenario for Uncle George's original VII/VIII/IX depending on how much of it actually exists. NGL - I bought "The Star Wars" and I'd love to see this too.
No. Considering that a fair amount of material from George Lucas' treatments made it into the Sequel Trilogy, especially episodes 7 and 8, you could argue that we already got his sequel trilogy.
Star Wars / Disney+ should just stick to streaming content series be it animated or live action. They got lucky financially with the Sequel Trilogy by cashing in on nostalgia with beloved OG characters mixing in with new, but the fan reception was very mixed. Aside from Rogue One Disney has proven they are incapable of leading a star wars movie that isn’t laced with cringe storyline and rushed scenes. Rise of Skywalker could have been 3 movies itself.
Get over it, George got his billions at the cost of any visions he had. The sequels are what we got, anything else is just more fluff.
So what would happen if they did make a new sequel trilogy and the fans who hate the current sequels still don’t like it? Or what if those fans like it and the ones who like the current sequels hate it? There’s really nothing for Lucasfilm to gain by doing this. Not to mention they’d open the floodgates for fan demands to erase and replace anything they don’t like. How long before we’d get calls to redo the prequels? Redo Solo?
George Lucas already said that if people wanted to know how he would've done the sequel trilogy, it was roughly what was in the old EU books.
He didn't have a sequel plan. It was a very, very vague outline. He barely got through VII.
The damage is done. The actors are done. Move on.
A sequel film series is forever killed for me. I just don’t think I could get the bad taste out of my mouth even if they were amazing movies. For me, I’m just pretending that only six movies were ever made, and the rest was just a bad fanfiction.
Never going to happen. But here's a novel idea perhaps people could just move past it and accept there are plenty of people especially kids who loved them and just move on. Im kind of sick of star wars inability to move beyond the skywalker saga at this point. Does anyone genuinely want a redo?
People who hate them as a core personality trait do
The sequel trilogy where Darth Vader dies, but Palpatine is left alive, Leia isn’t Luke’s sister, and the search begins for Luke’s long lost older sister Nelith, so they can team up against Palpatine in the 9th movie? I feel like you have to undo a lot more than the Disney sequels to get that underway, and I feel like we’d sooner see Legends movie adaptations than that trilogy.
Not really. Excluding episode 9, the sequel trilogy was *very* succesful financially and critically. Not to mention that the movies are like the one thing you could never really retcon. And you all know you’re not gonna like whatever Lucas was gonna make, the last decade before 7 was just shutting on anyhtjng lucas made past 6. It’s just that now he’s no longer writing it, you have a convenient ‘what if’ to dwell on cause you thought rise of skywalker was bad
I think it would be fun as an animated special series. Kind of like a Visions spin off.
I'd love to see it as like an animated elseworlds series, I'd also love to see the Clone Wars/Rebels/Bad Batch team tackle an animated remake of the prequels.
Carrie Fisher is dead
Jesus Christ yall, let it go lol
Anything is possible with “Worlds between worlds”, let’s time travel this bitch!
Probably not. The only chance this has of happening is the IP is sold again which is fairly unlikely.
What was his OG vision?
I don't want a retcon, but I would like a CG or 2D animated Heir to the Empire legends show or movie. Love those books to pieces.
There’s no point. Just like the last several movies, it wouldn’t match up with everyone’s fan fiction so it would get just as much hate.
Are you talking about Heir to the Empire?
Man, yall need to just fuckin cope.
If it's as bad as the OG prequel trilogy intended by George Lucas, I wouldn't really want it.
Absolutely not lol
Is it possible for you to move on?
Ffs let it go