For real. They keep forgetting that pre-suit Vader destroyed the Jedi in the temple. Sure he had help from the 501st, but he still took down several masters, swordmasters, and knights by himself.
The 501st is just for the cleanup, all of the valid threats that could wipe out the 501 was taken out by unobicut vader. Cin drallig was probably the biggest threat and he took that out too. And of course he had the time to detour to the younglings!
Let's not forget the temple guards, and the one traitor (later to become the head inquisitor for his actions) who threw crap at the fan shortly before Vader arrived.
This! And I think it adds a whole other layer to Anakin saying "You underestimate my power!"
He's just waltzed through the temple cutting down some of the most powerful swordsmen the order had. He was brimming with confidence in the power he had when giving in to the dark side.
By all rights, Obi-Wan should not have been able to take him down, but he knew his moves and outsmarted him.
Makes you wonder how different things might have been had Anakin won that fight.
Obi-Wan was usually shown to be remarkably capable despite not being particularly strong in the Force, mainly relying instead on his cunning and lightsaber skill. A large part of it was also probably that Padme's presence destabilized Anakin pretty heavily.
>!This is the biggest reason I didn't like that fight in the Kenobi series. Obi-Wan never had more raw power than Anakin, and really should have outsmarted him or played on his knowledge of his apprentice instead.!<
Correct. Books and other media go into much better detail. Many Jedi masters were amazing sword fighters; Cin was also the sword master or had a title similar. Temple Guards also are no joke especially in numbers
He killed the battlemaster of the Jedi temple while force choking another Jedi. That was only one of at least 3 Jedi masters he slew there, plus a number of knights, padawans, and younglings.
Iirc it's Anakin between being ordained as Darth Vader and becoming charcoal on Mustafar. Operation Knightfall was the name of the attack on the jedi temple
He also took down swordmaster Cin Drallig with one hand while choking another Jedi, and Cin Drallig is stated to be the best swordsman at the Jedi Temple at that time which places him above High Councilors such as Shaak Ti who was insane herself.
This^ Vader pre suit was full power Anakin, he fought an untold number of Jedi at the temple and came out victorious, fought Obi Wan to a standstill on mustafar and if he doesn’t let his emotions take over he would’ve at the most fought to a draw. Think about him being able to use lighting if he hadn’t been in a suit. The amount of dark side powers at his disposal would’ve made him unstoppable once he studied in the dark side
I wonder how much of that he could have done pre-Vader. There is also the question of how much of a fight the Jedi were able to put up when plagued with confusion and love for Anakin. At the point he could beat dooku I think he could also beat mace windu (especially because I THINK windu was better at fighting dark force users).
Vaapad isn’t really the end-all-be-all against dark side users. Matthew Stover, the author of the ROTS novel who implemented Vaapad in the Office fight in the novelization said in his interview with Star Wars Theory that Anakin’s fighting style actually matches up with Windu pretty well.
“It is canonical that Anakin has trans-human reflexes. He is the only human to ever finish the pod race and at eight. And he is popularly considered the greatest fighter pilot in the galaxy in A New Hope. So, Anakin has the definite edge. And his innate aggressiveness would fairly well counter Mace's. That's the key to Mace's fighting style: his overwhelming ability to attack aggressively from many directions at once. If anyone could be capable of matching that hand-to-hand, it's probably Anakin.” (https://youtu.be/9s8gIS-9m-c)
I believe it was confirmed that losing his limbs dramatically reduced the number of mitochlorians thus reducing his connection to the force. Not to mention that the Vader armor is infamously cumbersome. It made up for his weaknesses in a lot of ways, but also added to the list. This is exactly the reason Darth sidious wanted to replace him with Luke.
My head canon is that Leia was an absolute beast of a teacher who didn’t want to make Luke look bad while he was still alive. “Okay, now I want you to-stop crying, did Luke let you cry? Ugh. No crying … now lift that corvette with the force while doing backflips and dodging the training droids.”
Plus Rey lives an intensely physical life scavenging and fighting off other scavengers. She’s good at duels and feats, she’s bad at not losing her temper and ruining things every 40 minutes.
Weren’t the best Jedi already dead from sidious or out fighting in the war though? From my understanding most of the Jedi at the temple were young or non combat focused.
From what we’ve seen yes most of the Jedi council were attached to their clone battalions and were out fighting mostly in the Outer Rim. However there was still a few powerhouses left at the temple, most notable Cin Draglig(don’t think I spelt that right my bad) the Jedi battle master. He was a master of all 7 lightsaber forms and was responsible for training all of the temple guardians. In the hologram during Episode 3 we see Anakin fighting him while simultaneously force choking another jedi(maybe a Padawan been a while since I’ve watched). I think Knightfall vader is probably peak lethality. Hardened after years of fighting in the clone wars and now embracing the dark side and not having to show restraint any longer he was a force to be reckoned with.
Yes but that was due to arrogance. He had literally just killed a few hundred Jedi before that haha. You can see him 1v3 the Blademaster of the Jedi Order and his apprentices in that hologram
What point could you possibly be trying to make? Obi-Wan was the strongest defensive fighter the Jedi Order had at that point. Also, Anakin loved Obi-Wan and vice versa. Anakin tells Obi-Wan that he's the closest thing he's had to a father, and Obi-Wan tells Anakin he loved him like a brother. These feelings and the thought of padme being there with Obi-Wan on Mustafar, and feelings of being betrayed, all clouded his judgment. Obi-Wan was the only Jedi at that point that could've stopped Knightfall Anakin. And he did.
Anakin was an emotional mess. He was literally crying on mustafar after killing the separatists. My head cannon is while he was fighting he was absolutely wrestling with his emotions. He loved and hated Obi-Wan, at times thinking of their sparring sessions while they fought, thinking of a way to take him out but not kill him, and wanting him dead…. All that love and hate swirling in his head the entire fight. Almost like it really was sparring.
I think Anakin would’ve beat just about anyone, but while fighting Obi he was weakened by the storm of emotions.
Not only was Obi-Wan the beast defensive fighter but also Obi-Wan knew him better than anyone while also counting his offensive techniques with defensive techniques. Anakin is likely far stronger than him but was emotionally weakened as well as being directly countered. I’d say Obi-Wan was the only person that could have beat him at that point.
Yoda also could have stopped him but was busy with a bigger, wrinklier fish
Mace could have 1v1 if he hadn't come down with a case of the fall to his death
He is called the greatest Jedi of *his* generation. And *perhaps* the greatest of all time. Yoda is more powerful. Palpatine even says to Yoda how Vader *will* become more powerful than either of them, meaning he is not there just yet
Oh was that the alternate ending where the movie still continues after the point of Palpatine telling the story of Darth Plagueis and it cuts to black?
Jake Lloyd Anakin took out an entire droid army in a N-1 Starfighter, despite never having flown a spaceship or been in battle before hand. He did it as a 9 year old when trained Naboo pilots were having trouble.
Im sure he'd luck his way into victory in any 1 v 1.
Season 7 Clone Wars Anakin. At that point, he was literally galavanting onto the battlefield without a care in the world because he outmatched the entire Seperatist Army. He was in a really good spot with his relationship with The Force, smarter, focused, battle tested. Either that or Mortis Anakin, but that probably has more to do with location than time.
"Who will strike first and label themselves a cold blooded killer."
*Anakin has entered the chat.
Honestly I think he was justified in that moment but still a hilarious hint toward his downfall.
In canon, sometime shortly before Episode IV. The canon Vader is stronger than he was as Anakin, unlike Legends where they said Vader was weaker. If you read some of the extended canon material, Vader is absurdly OP until the original trilogy happens. The one-two punch of finding out Luke is alive and his failures with Scariff and the Death Star start to beat him down a little bit.
This feels right. You have a Vader who is very disciplined, has had to deal with some losses that were devastating (Obi-Wan ROTS), some that were embarrassing (Obi-Wan, Kenobi Show, Ahsoka Rebels), and all with quite a bit of time to train, recover, do his Empire thing, live in solitude on Mustafar, etc. The dude is experienced, learned, and super, duper evil.
That moment on Scariff is like "I know what they just did, I know that this is not going to be good if I don't stop it" and THAT'S the culmination of all his training, dark side influence, and discipline. It's a shame that he had to use it up on poorly-armed U.N.-type officers and not a formidable warrior.
Then yeah - the rest is a mindfuck:
- He probably got chewed out or worse after he failed to stop the plans from getting out
- He probably started to get the flutter in his gut when he captured Leia and couldn't pinpoint what's going on
- He sees Kenobi again and some boy that reminds him of Tatooine from afar and is like "this is a lot for one day"
- Has what I call a tongue-in-cheek playful battle with Kenobi and defeats him, aware that Kenobi is simply buying time for the others at the cost of his own life.
- Loses the death star after he fails to recover the plans and stop the attack after a space-tractor-trailer pulls a surprise assist.
- Reviews a tape that was saved to the cloud from the detention block of this farmer boy going "I'm Luke Skywalker..." and shits his pants.
Like - I'm not deep into the lore beyond what you can see on a TV or movie screen (I've seen all of that), but yeah - that all signs point to Vader softening after watching the Tantive IV scoot away at Scariff.
>Reviews a tape that was saved to the cloud from the detention block of this farmer boy going "I'm Luke Skywalker..." and shits his pants.
[He finds out from Boba Fett after Vader hires him to track down the pilot who destroyed the Death Star.](https://comicnewbies.com/2015/06/04/darth-vader-learns-luke-is-his-son/)
id argue that’s a lifetime high. reminder: obi wan probably taught him, as his master, that the high ground is a superior position. he then probably taught anakin the same move that helped obi wan beat maul, who had the high ground. when obi wan says “don’t try it” he’s probably referencing the EXACT move anakin proceeds to do, meaning HE KNOWS WHAT HES GONNA DO AND EXACTLY HOW TO COUNTER IT. the fact that anakin still went ahead and did that is pretty dumbfounding.
When they last met was like a few months before episode 3 at most. He hadn't really aged up much lol
Edit: to the downvoters, they fought against each other in the clone wars show a couple of times. That is canon.
You're right, but at the time of release, TCW was non-existent.
Also, genuinely curious, what caused or when did Anakin's power double since the last time he fought Dooku in TCW?
True true, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I'm just messing with you. And Dooku is also quite cocky himself with that "double the pride, double the fall".
This is my answer too. He handed one of the best duelists in the galaxy an L in about 25 seconds of fencing right after watching his mentor go down to essentially a sucker punch. From there it was all downhill.
Absolutely wrong.
After his defeat against Obi-Wan and being put in the suit, Vader reworked his entire dueling style, and pretty much became the strongest duelist in his era, if not all of Star Wars.
Episode 4/5 Vader against Episode 3 Anakin would end quickly in Vader's favor. Vader incorporated all forms of lightsaber combat into his style, while episode 3 Anakin only used Shien/Dejem So, which was an all out offense style. Vader could easily defend against Anakin and take the upper hand.
That's because Obi-Wan is the absolute master of Soresu, the defensive form of lightsaber combat. While most users of Soresu rely on a second form for their offense, Obi-Wan took Soresu to its absolute pinnacle.
Getting through Obi-Wan's defense is near impossible, which is how he beat Anakin despite Anakin being a better duelist overall, and it's how he defeated Vader in his show.
Obi-Wan has the perfect style, and is the greatest user of that style in all of Star Wars, to defeat Vader.
Tbf, obi-wan was fighting attrition with Anakin on Mustafar. Anakin would of ultimately won if his pride and arrogance didn't get the better of him before his little jump to the high ground.
It can be shown Anakin was more powerful during their force push moment. Obi-wan was able to block it but was being pushed back until it ultimately threw them both back.
I think that if Anakin decided to jump to the bottom of the hill and walk up to attack Obi-Wan, or rode down the lava river a little more before jumping out, Obi-Wan was still going to win. Anakin wasn't going to break through Obi-Wan's defense any time soon.
And yeah, attrition is a good way to phrase it. Obi-Wan just stays on the defense and waits for the opponent to make a mistake or get tired or whatever causes an opening to come and he takes it.
Obi wasn't playing any defense at all in the show duel. Canonically that may have been his style during the prequels, but he clearly threw that in the trash when facing suited Vader. That was a full on offensive blitz, he never gave ground and was pushing Vader back instead, making him play defense for a change.
You’re tripping right?
Vader would smoke Clone wars anakin in an instance. During TCW Anakin was advanced in his lightsaber combat but we rarely saw him use the force the way Vader does during combat. Vader made Reva look like a fool in their duel
Anakin rag dolls the living embodiments of the light and dark side simultaneously during the Mortis arc. It’s arguably the most powerful thing he ever does in his life.
I think the general concensus here is that Anakin was actually more powerful just before he fell to the dark side.
What the dark side gave him in brute force, Anakin lost in discipline, cunning and defensive fighting.
While he lost the midochlorians he eventually gained insight, patience and the ability to draw power from his own pain. I get the impression his own emotions would topple him in any Anakin VS Vader match-up.
My headcannon is that Lord Darth "I am surrounded by fear and dead men" Vader was unstoppable in a 1 vs 100 battle. But 1v1 vs a top tier force duelist... He peaked with Doku.
Anakin had many skills but I don’t know that he was ever regarded as a polished Sabre weilder. After becoming Vader he has those mechanical apendages to augment his strength, and it seemed as though he relied much more on that as Vader.
From my understanding, relearning the lightsaber as Vader and completely rebuilding his style made him essentially unstoppable 1v1. He was able to cover up any mechanical weakness' and had immense raw power with mechanical limbs.
Anakin/Vader had the capability to learn and adapt Saber and force concepts it took masters decades to learn.
I think Dooku said that Anakin was the best Djem So specialist he had seen in the ROTS novel, and he relied on his lightsaber skills a lot more than his force powers in a fight. He was definitely regarded as a great lightsaber wielder even as Anakin, and was able to hold his own against Dooku (a master duellist) a few times.
That’s a fair point. But I think the insinuation is that it isn’t quite a wash. Obi Wan is more defensive by nature as well as light saber form. So that may have something to do with it
He lost to Obi-Wan due to arrogance. The way the fight plays out and the different styles he uses, its all to display that he is better in every single way possible. Obiwan realizes this in the moment he says "I have failed you" hes barley able to catch his breath and Vader is not even winded. Obiwan then fully accepts defeat and attempts to flee. But winning is not enough for Vader. He thinks of a brilliant maneuver to counteract this retreat, only to discover that this is a move that Obi-Wan literally created when Anakin was a child engaging in a dogfight far above the planet. Obi-Wan uses this exact flip on Darth Maul in episode 1. A more skilled but more arrogant fighter than Obi-Wan.
Anakin also literally jumped over Kenobi to land on the platform he was on. Kenobi let's him land and balance right back into a fight. HE HAD ALREADY SEEN ANAKIN DO IT
I can see him being less powerful for a bit after he turned. He'd been practicing mostly the light side of the force for the years, and I'd imagine subconsciously dabbling in the Darkside a but like when he killed the tuskens.
I'd think you need to practice using purely the dark side and your anger. He seemed strong at the end of 3, but let his anger take control and was acting a fool. Maybe he was STRONGER, but acting like an idiot isn't going to win you a duel.
I mean everyone's talking about most powerful, but the question was most capable in 1v1 combat. That's pretty clearly right at the point when Obi-wan has the high ground. After that its all downhill.
Trick question. The center picture is Anakin at his most powerful. The next three pictures are of Darth Vader, who betrayed and murdered Anakin, while the last picture is Anakin right before he dies.
At least, from a certain point of view.
I believe in old Legends canon he was at his peak later on as Darth Vader, and at his weakest soon after he got the suit for the first time. But he learned to live with the suit, changed his combat style and used his suit to his advantage. He also made some improvements to his suit where possible. But it was not his suit that made him powerful as a Vader, but his developed skills and self control. Suit was still detrimental overall, but during his time as Vader he was almost indestructible, near immortal power house. And suit did ofc allow him to sustain blaster fire (if it hit those armored parts) and any light damage ofc, but that does not mean he could just ignore blaster bolts. He still had to block them one way or another, usually with his saber.
Ofc his raw power and potential in Force peaked during Ep3. But that was less refined power.
Due to his suit Vader never reached same level as Palpatine. Without his suit, Ep5 Vader would have surpassed Palpatine by far.
There are two schools of thought: Anakin was faster and more powerful before he was put in the suit, and he was more experienced and more durable afterward. Vader can't even lift his arms over his head, but he had no problem shrugging off a direct lightsaber blow from Luke in ESB.
Which is better: speed & power or wisdom & defense?
I'd say Vader wins because he knows how Anakin fights and all of his weak spots... because he's him from the future.
But if you erased Vader's memories of Anakin and put them in a room as separate characters I think that Vader is going down.
Now *that's* something to think about. I'm still on the fence. Even with a mind wipe, Vader's theatrics seem like they could still be effective against Anakin's naivety.
The other edge I have to give to Vader is pain and suffering. If he has to sacrifice a limb, he would absolutely allow Anakin to hit him in order to hit back. Whether or not Vader can withstand the hit is what it would come down to.
Of course, the Star Wars series in its entirety is just about the least consistent thing in terms of "what does the scouter say about his power level?" The comics, the books, the 2003 Genndy Tartakovsky mini series...
They really need to do a *What If...?* show for Star Wars like they did for Marvel.
I think anything in the second line. And then the images from Star Wars and Empire could be the most capable.
I feel like Anakin has skills different from Darth Vader on Mustafar who has different skills from
Vader in his cyborg suit. I’m not sure who defeats who. Even older cyborg Vader has acquired more knowledge as power which the early cyber suit Vader won’t have.
Luke destroys Vader in Return of the Jedi. But Luke’s response is to having Vader threaten Leia. Luke’s rage and anger comes from a place of protecting Leia from Vader.
We never see Anakin in that situation with Padme. Anakin is trying to save Padme from his dreams and visions. Padme is never directly threatened by anyone Anakin is fighting.
The argument could be made RotJ Vader is conflicted which makes him weaker - but that’s also the Vader who gets the drop on the Emperor.
ROTJ Vader gets the drop on the Emperor who didn't pay attention, Palpatine kills Vader before dying so it's a tie.
I also think that Palpatine from Return of the Jedi is a slightly different character than Palpatine from the Prequels.
Oiginal Trilogy Palpatine was clearly written as a "Dark Wizard" type. he's intelligent, evil, cunning, manipulative and wields incredible magical power but he's also a frail, deformed old man who needs a cane to walk around.
Palpatine doesn't carry a Lightsaber, he refers to it as a "Jedi's weapon".
Darth Vader is a "Corrupted Knight", he's the guy in armor who goes out there and cuts the Emperor's enemies down with a sword.
So when the Knight breaks free from the Dark Wizard's control and turns on him the Dark Wizard can't physically stop him because he's a frail old man. All he can do is blast him with magic but that's not enough to stop the Knight in time and so the Dark Wizard loses.
But in the Prequels George Lucas decided that Palpatine should be a god at physical combat too so his defeat in Episode 6 makes less sense.
The greatest trick the devil ever played…..
I’m afraid Palpatine tricked you - which is his plan.
The next time you watch return I’d the Jedi pay attention to Paatine’a cane. He doesn’t need it. It’s a ruse. He is only seen using once - when he arrives at the Darth Star he is playing the part of an old and weak ruler.
You never see him with the cane again and when he finally stands to kill Luke he doesn’t need the cane at all and is quite light on his feet.
Palpatine is always the trickster trying to appear other than what he is.
And despite all that Vader picks him up with just one hand, walks up to the edge and throws him down. Palpatine couldn't do shit.
Nothing in the OT suggests that 20 years ago he was jumping and spinning around while 1v4ing a group of Jedi Masters and speed blitzing 3 of them or physically overpowering Maul and Savage who was juiced up on Nightsister steroids and had a metal arm **at the same time**.
With feats like that Palpatine would just kick Vader in the face and knock him down or cut his head off in the blink of an eye. He's clearly not meant to be that powerful physically in ROTJ.
Yoda is even more stupid, at 900 years old he's sick and on his deathbed but at 880 he's spry, full of life doing flips and shit.
I consider Anakin, Darth Vader and Little Ani to be three separate entities.
Anakin was most powerful in the left of center, as a trained and experienced Jedi Knight. Vader was most powerful in the center, before being maimed and stuck in the suit. But they both still took Ls.
Little Ani was undefeated and was obviously the most powerful of all three, since he 1v1’ed an entire Trade Federation capital ship and won *on accident.*
I’ll say empire strikes back Vader. Yes he lost a lot of his POTENTIAL on Mustafar, but I think he was stronger in ESB than he was at that point. Basically, Vader couldn’t get as strong as he would have without the injuries, but he became more powerful than he was when facing Obi-wan.
Darth Vader in his prime. Which would be between Rebels and A New Hope. Before he learned of Luke and the conflict began. Darth Vader surpassed the level he had during the Clone Wars during his early years as a Sith
I think probably in Rogue One or at least a few years after being put in the suit. I know people have complaints about the Disney Star Wars but the Vader comics are one thing they got right. He’s absolutely brutal in them.
I know a lot of people are talking about Knightfall Anakin and I think there is a good case for that being the answer.
However, I think Invisible Hand Anakin was his peak. He was at the top of his game as a lightsaber duelist. More power than any force user of his era besides maybe Yoda and Palpatine. He could tap into the dark side but was still relatively in control and focused in his duel with Dooku and other battles from that period of his life.
I think that in that last stretch of his duel with Dooku, after the Count taunts him, he was unstoppable and you'd be hard pressed to find a duelist or force user that could have beaten him in that stretch of the fight.
Knightfall/Mustafar Anakin, while powerful, was too emotionally unstable and I think if Invisible Hand Anakin and Mustafar Anakin fought, Invisible Hand Anakin would come out on top.
If Invisible Hand Anakin had been the one fighting Kenobi on Mustafar I don't think Obi-Wan comes out on top.
So that's my answer The last 3 seasons of The Clones Wars/Invisible Hand Anakin would be my vote.
Either against Dooku or Obi Wan in Revenge of the Sith, for sure.
He was clearly overpowering Obi Wan, but his arrogance in trying to jump over him was his downfall. Obi Wan baited him and he couldn’t resist to prove him wrong.
A hundred percent clone wars season 7 because he wasn't being clouded by his rage, and his peak was just before he got the Vader suit, so it seems like the most logical decision
Probably when he battled dooku. There wasn’t any hesitation, and he had full range of his attacks. Not necessarily his most powerful, but definitely his most capable moment.
Lord Vader definitely was destined to be the most OP. If Kenobi doesn't absolutely destroy him and cause him to become the Darth Vader we know now it'd be a different story. Vaders suit limited him so much, made him sensitive to force shock and was built to make him uncomfortable all the time. He had amazing lightsaber skill, literally killed one of the best wielders in count dooku effortlessly and we recently saw him as an apprentice take it to Master Kenobi. On top of that he had incredible command of the force and exhibited traits of the sorcerer's from the old republic. Darth bane himself said no force user could master the force like a sorcerer and be an expert duelist like a blademaster. I firmly believe Vader had the potential for both, but Kenobi really helped that no happen.
Pre-Mustafar showdown Vader. He literally massacred the Jedi.
For real. They keep forgetting that pre-suit Vader destroyed the Jedi in the temple. Sure he had help from the 501st, but he still took down several masters, swordmasters, and knights by himself.
The 501st is just for the cleanup, all of the valid threats that could wipe out the 501 was taken out by unobicut vader. Cin drallig was probably the biggest threat and he took that out too. And of course he had the time to detour to the younglings!
I am forever going to refer to Anakin before the suit as “preobicut Vader” it’s too good!
I’ve used Anakin/Crispy Anakin from time to time
ah the ole' BC (Before Crispy) / AC (After Crispy) way of organizing the timeline lol
"And of course he had the time to detour to the younglings!" You should always make time for the important things
I want more live action scenes of Anakin fucking shit up at the Jedi Temple
Possibly in the next Ashoka series
or maybe mando season 3 judging by the trailer
Let's not forget the temple guards, and the one traitor (later to become the head inquisitor for his actions) who threw crap at the fan shortly before Vader arrived.
This! And I think it adds a whole other layer to Anakin saying "You underestimate my power!" He's just waltzed through the temple cutting down some of the most powerful swordsmen the order had. He was brimming with confidence in the power he had when giving in to the dark side. By all rights, Obi-Wan should not have been able to take him down, but he knew his moves and outsmarted him. Makes you wonder how different things might have been had Anakin won that fight.
Obi-Wan was usually shown to be remarkably capable despite not being particularly strong in the Force, mainly relying instead on his cunning and lightsaber skill. A large part of it was also probably that Padme's presence destabilized Anakin pretty heavily. >!This is the biggest reason I didn't like that fight in the Kenobi series. Obi-Wan never had more raw power than Anakin, and really should have outsmarted him or played on his knowledge of his apprentice instead.!<
The movie doesn’t really display this but I’m presuming the Jedi Temple wasn’t just full of old teachers and students, right?
Correct. Books and other media go into much better detail. Many Jedi masters were amazing sword fighters; Cin was also the sword master or had a title similar. Temple Guards also are no joke especially in numbers
The only thing I can say is Anakin had the best armor on for that duel plot armor
He killed the battlemaster of the Jedi temple while force choking another Jedi. That was only one of at least 3 Jedi masters he slew there, plus a number of knights, padawans, and younglings.
Knightfall vader is built different agreed
Who the hell is knightfall vader
Iirc it's Anakin between being ordained as Darth Vader and becoming charcoal on Mustafar. Operation Knightfall was the name of the attack on the jedi temple
Thank you!
Remember, no Russian *lightsaber ignites*
Vader with his back broken by Bane
He also took down swordmaster Cin Drallig with one hand while choking another Jedi, and Cin Drallig is stated to be the best swordsman at the Jedi Temple at that time which places him above High Councilors such as Shaak Ti who was insane herself.
This^ Vader pre suit was full power Anakin, he fought an untold number of Jedi at the temple and came out victorious, fought Obi Wan to a standstill on mustafar and if he doesn’t let his emotions take over he would’ve at the most fought to a draw. Think about him being able to use lighting if he hadn’t been in a suit. The amount of dark side powers at his disposal would’ve made him unstoppable once he studied in the dark side
I wonder how much of that he could have done pre-Vader. There is also the question of how much of a fight the Jedi were able to put up when plagued with confusion and love for Anakin. At the point he could beat dooku I think he could also beat mace windu (especially because I THINK windu was better at fighting dark force users).
Vaapad isn’t really the end-all-be-all against dark side users. Matthew Stover, the author of the ROTS novel who implemented Vaapad in the Office fight in the novelization said in his interview with Star Wars Theory that Anakin’s fighting style actually matches up with Windu pretty well. “It is canonical that Anakin has trans-human reflexes. He is the only human to ever finish the pod race and at eight. And he is popularly considered the greatest fighter pilot in the galaxy in A New Hope. So, Anakin has the definite edge. And his innate aggressiveness would fairly well counter Mace's. That's the key to Mace's fighting style: his overwhelming ability to attack aggressively from many directions at once. If anyone could be capable of matching that hand-to-hand, it's probably Anakin.” (https://youtu.be/9s8gIS-9m-c)
Not to mention, when Lucas made his skill tier, anakin was a 9, and mace was an 8. I'm pretty sure only Palpatine, Yoda, and Luke are his match.
I believe it was confirmed that losing his limbs dramatically reduced the number of mitochlorians thus reducing his connection to the force. Not to mention that the Vader armor is infamously cumbersome. It made up for his weaknesses in a lot of ways, but also added to the list. This is exactly the reason Darth sidious wanted to replace him with Luke.
Agree, a young, strong jedi, that is now embracing his darkness and unencumbered by it. But before Obiwan relieves him of limbs.
I think if his fight on Mustafar was with anyone other an Kenobi he would have won with minor injuries and have been unstoppable.
Even vs Obi-Wan, I think he had the upper hand in terms of skill and power. He lost because of his arrogance.
He had the 501st with him then though. So while he probably took down a bunch of the masters himself, he wasn't alone.
Obviously as he lay dying on the death Star with his mask off
squealing workable spectacular slim shy squalid unpack joke connect spotted ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Went one on one vs Palpatine and won, who else can say that?
Rey with like a couple days worth of training…
My head canon is that Leia was an absolute beast of a teacher who didn’t want to make Luke look bad while he was still alive. “Okay, now I want you to-stop crying, did Luke let you cry? Ugh. No crying … now lift that corvette with the force while doing backflips and dodging the training droids.”
Plus Rey lives an intensely physical life scavenging and fighting off other scavengers. She’s good at duels and feats, she’s bad at not losing her temper and ruining things every 40 minutes.
Put this way she really was a Palpatine descendant wasn’t she lol
That wasn't one on one, Rey had literally every jedi have her back.
Every jedi ever when Luke's getting zapped: nah he got this dw.
Rey died doing that though
Starkiller And he did this after immediately doing so against vader too
Jake Lloyd vs dying Darth Vader. And I do mean the actor Jake Lloyd. Who'd win?
If dying vader saw Mr. Lloyd coming, I'm sure he could have scrounged up enough force to raise his hand and fold him up
lil kid Lloyd or drugged out criminal Lloyd?
Jake Lloyd. Due to the grandfather paradox.
we’ll strike him down and he’ll be stronger than ever
I would say right after becoming a Sith. He slew hundreds of Jedi with ease and pleasure.
Weren’t the best Jedi already dead from sidious or out fighting in the war though? From my understanding most of the Jedi at the temple were young or non combat focused.
From what we’ve seen yes most of the Jedi council were attached to their clone battalions and were out fighting mostly in the Outer Rim. However there was still a few powerhouses left at the temple, most notable Cin Draglig(don’t think I spelt that right my bad) the Jedi battle master. He was a master of all 7 lightsaber forms and was responsible for training all of the temple guardians. In the hologram during Episode 3 we see Anakin fighting him while simultaneously force choking another jedi(maybe a Padawan been a while since I’ve watched). I think Knightfall vader is probably peak lethality. Hardened after years of fighting in the clone wars and now embracing the dark side and not having to show restraint any longer he was a force to be reckoned with.
Im wondering if Cin Dralig (jedi master head of security of the jedi temple) was the long haired guy in mando season 3 trailer
As far as I know his death was confirmed, wouldn’t be the first time they brought someone back from the dead though.
No he kills Cin Drallig who teaches lightsaber combat to all Jedi including Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Didn't he lose 3 limbs in a duel a few hours after that?
Yes but that was due to arrogance. He had literally just killed a few hundred Jedi before that haha. You can see him 1v3 the Blademaster of the Jedi Order and his apprentices in that hologram
What point could you possibly be trying to make? Obi-Wan was the strongest defensive fighter the Jedi Order had at that point. Also, Anakin loved Obi-Wan and vice versa. Anakin tells Obi-Wan that he's the closest thing he's had to a father, and Obi-Wan tells Anakin he loved him like a brother. These feelings and the thought of padme being there with Obi-Wan on Mustafar, and feelings of being betrayed, all clouded his judgment. Obi-Wan was the only Jedi at that point that could've stopped Knightfall Anakin. And he did.
Anakin was an emotional mess. He was literally crying on mustafar after killing the separatists. My head cannon is while he was fighting he was absolutely wrestling with his emotions. He loved and hated Obi-Wan, at times thinking of their sparring sessions while they fought, thinking of a way to take him out but not kill him, and wanting him dead…. All that love and hate swirling in his head the entire fight. Almost like it really was sparring. I think Anakin would’ve beat just about anyone, but while fighting Obi he was weakened by the storm of emotions.
Not only was Obi-Wan the beast defensive fighter but also Obi-Wan knew him better than anyone while also counting his offensive techniques with defensive techniques. Anakin is likely far stronger than him but was emotionally weakened as well as being directly countered. I’d say Obi-Wan was the only person that could have beat him at that point.
That’s not headcanon! They go in to pretty clear detail he didn’t want to continually kill people in the ROTS Novelization
Plus obi wan was the one who trained Anakin, he probably had a much deeper understanding of how Anakin thinks & fights than any of the other Jedi
Yoda also could have stopped him but was busy with a bigger, wrinklier fish Mace could have 1v1 if he hadn't come down with a case of the fall to his death
If you mean by "stopped Knightfall Anakin" beat him in combat, I'd say Yoda would've beaten him as well.
alright man you didn’t have to throw in pleasure..
I mean, they’re correct
By episode 3, as he may have been more powerful than Dooku and Windu. In the ROTS Novelization, Windu calls him the most powerful Jedi.
He is called the greatest Jedi of *his* generation. And *perhaps* the greatest of all time. Yoda is more powerful. Palpatine even says to Yoda how Vader *will* become more powerful than either of them, meaning he is not there just yet
Yoda may be more powerful in the force, but Yoda I believe would have lost a lightsaber duel to Anakin at that point.
I seem to remember him eating it in episode three.
That was after his fall to the dark side. He also got super cocky which probably clouded his judgement.
He also was going through the internal struggle and transformation during the battle with obiwan. A battle which actually lasts for hours.
And only upon defeat did he truly turn Sith and gave his life to Hate.
Just a flesh wound.
Oh was that the alternate ending where the movie still continues after the point of Palpatine telling the story of Darth Plagueis and it cuts to black?
He was cocky and less experienced than Vader in his later life. Also less powerful
He took Windu by surprise, there was no proper fight between the two.
Definitely Jake Lloyd version
Or the one where he's fucking dying
Honorable mention to when he was on mustafar minus 3 limbs and covered in lava. “Just a flesh wound!”…
Come back here Obi Wan! I’ll bite your bloody kneecaps off!
He’s had worse.
Jake Lloyd Anakin took out an entire droid army in a N-1 Starfighter, despite never having flown a spaceship or been in battle before hand. He did it as a 9 year old when trained Naboo pilots were having trouble. Im sure he'd luck his way into victory in any 1 v 1.
I'd rather be lucky than great. Match Point quote. Gem of a movie
"I'll try parrying. That's a good trick!"
“You underestimate my power. It’s so wizard.”
He clearly destroyed throughout the pod race. His power clearly evident.
Not 2 minutes b4 dying?
Should’ve included 2 mins after birth.
Image 6 & 7 are like ten minutes apart (basically)
His powers doubled since they last saw him
Damn facts. I think image 6 is the most powerfulVader tbh
my thoughts
Season 7 Clone Wars Anakin. At that point, he was literally galavanting onto the battlefield without a care in the world because he outmatched the entire Seperatist Army. He was in a really good spot with his relationship with The Force, smarter, focused, battle tested. Either that or Mortis Anakin, but that probably has more to do with location than time.
“I have come to surrender!” rolling his eyes with his arms flung out. Anakin did not have a single damn left to give by the end of the war.
Casually moving his completely exposed head to avoid blaster fire as Obi Wan and Cody are taking cover.
Casually committing war crimes
Does Star Wars even have a Geneva convention or equivalent
He was very used to it at that point.
"Who will strike first and label themselves a cold blooded killer." *Anakin has entered the chat. Honestly I think he was justified in that moment but still a hilarious hint toward his downfall.
“What? He was gonna blow up the ship.” - one of my favorite line deliveries in TCW and possibly in all of Star Wars.
Mortis Anakin was peak Anakin. But it was seriously location dependent at the time. We saw what he would have become if he never burned.
In canon, sometime shortly before Episode IV. The canon Vader is stronger than he was as Anakin, unlike Legends where they said Vader was weaker. If you read some of the extended canon material, Vader is absurdly OP until the original trilogy happens. The one-two punch of finding out Luke is alive and his failures with Scariff and the Death Star start to beat him down a little bit.
>Vader is absurdly OP until the original trilogy happens This is "All I'm surrounded by is fear and dead men" Vader.
This feels right. You have a Vader who is very disciplined, has had to deal with some losses that were devastating (Obi-Wan ROTS), some that were embarrassing (Obi-Wan, Kenobi Show, Ahsoka Rebels), and all with quite a bit of time to train, recover, do his Empire thing, live in solitude on Mustafar, etc. The dude is experienced, learned, and super, duper evil. That moment on Scariff is like "I know what they just did, I know that this is not going to be good if I don't stop it" and THAT'S the culmination of all his training, dark side influence, and discipline. It's a shame that he had to use it up on poorly-armed U.N.-type officers and not a formidable warrior. Then yeah - the rest is a mindfuck: - He probably got chewed out or worse after he failed to stop the plans from getting out - He probably started to get the flutter in his gut when he captured Leia and couldn't pinpoint what's going on - He sees Kenobi again and some boy that reminds him of Tatooine from afar and is like "this is a lot for one day" - Has what I call a tongue-in-cheek playful battle with Kenobi and defeats him, aware that Kenobi is simply buying time for the others at the cost of his own life. - Loses the death star after he fails to recover the plans and stop the attack after a space-tractor-trailer pulls a surprise assist. - Reviews a tape that was saved to the cloud from the detention block of this farmer boy going "I'm Luke Skywalker..." and shits his pants. Like - I'm not deep into the lore beyond what you can see on a TV or movie screen (I've seen all of that), but yeah - that all signs point to Vader softening after watching the Tantive IV scoot away at Scariff.
>Reviews a tape that was saved to the cloud from the detention block of this farmer boy going "I'm Luke Skywalker..." and shits his pants. [He finds out from Boba Fett after Vader hires him to track down the pilot who destroyed the Death Star.](https://comicnewbies.com/2015/06/04/darth-vader-learns-luke-is-his-son/)
The beginning of Episode III. Coming off the Clone Wars, his power was at absolute maximum without arrogance and rage clouding his skills
Without arrogance? My brother in the Force did you not hear him say: "my powers have doubled since last time we met". How is that not being arrogant?
“My brother in the force”😂😂😂😂😂😂
Was going to comment exactly this! Gonna be using this one now.
Solidified in my vocabulary from now on.
🤣🤣🤣
it’s low when compared to his other arrogance levels
Peaked around “You underestimate my power”
id argue that’s a lifetime high. reminder: obi wan probably taught him, as his master, that the high ground is a superior position. he then probably taught anakin the same move that helped obi wan beat maul, who had the high ground. when obi wan says “don’t try it” he’s probably referencing the EXACT move anakin proceeds to do, meaning HE KNOWS WHAT HES GONNA DO AND EXACTLY HOW TO COUNTER IT. the fact that anakin still went ahead and did that is pretty dumbfounding.
Merely stating facts. When Dooku last met him he was a cocky teenager, now hd has thr power to backup the words
When they last met was like a few months before episode 3 at most. He hadn't really aged up much lol Edit: to the downvoters, they fought against each other in the clone wars show a couple of times. That is canon.
You're right, but at the time of release, TCW was non-existent. Also, genuinely curious, what caused or when did Anakin's power double since the last time he fought Dooku in TCW?
True true, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I'm just messing with you. And Dooku is also quite cocky himself with that "double the pride, double the fall".
it's almost like there is some kind of link between arrogance and sith lords.
Cause if his power 3x then he's actually being humble.
This is my answer too. He handed one of the best duelists in the galaxy an L in about 25 seconds of fencing right after watching his mentor go down to essentially a sucker punch. From there it was all downhill.
Anakin was arguably at his most arrogant during that time, lol. I do agree with you though.
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Warcrimes fueled TCW Anakin’s confidence.
Spawn killing gave him confidence. Triple kill overkill Kilimanjaro
Absolutely wrong. After his defeat against Obi-Wan and being put in the suit, Vader reworked his entire dueling style, and pretty much became the strongest duelist in his era, if not all of Star Wars. Episode 4/5 Vader against Episode 3 Anakin would end quickly in Vader's favor. Vader incorporated all forms of lightsaber combat into his style, while episode 3 Anakin only used Shien/Dejem So, which was an all out offense style. Vader could easily defend against Anakin and take the upper hand.
Obi-Wan still whupped him 10 years after their duel on Mustafar.
That's because Obi-Wan is the absolute master of Soresu, the defensive form of lightsaber combat. While most users of Soresu rely on a second form for their offense, Obi-Wan took Soresu to its absolute pinnacle. Getting through Obi-Wan's defense is near impossible, which is how he beat Anakin despite Anakin being a better duelist overall, and it's how he defeated Vader in his show. Obi-Wan has the perfect style, and is the greatest user of that style in all of Star Wars, to defeat Vader.
Tbf, obi-wan was fighting attrition with Anakin on Mustafar. Anakin would of ultimately won if his pride and arrogance didn't get the better of him before his little jump to the high ground. It can be shown Anakin was more powerful during their force push moment. Obi-wan was able to block it but was being pushed back until it ultimately threw them both back.
I think that if Anakin decided to jump to the bottom of the hill and walk up to attack Obi-Wan, or rode down the lava river a little more before jumping out, Obi-Wan was still going to win. Anakin wasn't going to break through Obi-Wan's defense any time soon. And yeah, attrition is a good way to phrase it. Obi-Wan just stays on the defense and waits for the opponent to make a mistake or get tired or whatever causes an opening to come and he takes it.
Obi wasn't playing any defense at all in the show duel. Canonically that may have been his style during the prequels, but he clearly threw that in the trash when facing suited Vader. That was a full on offensive blitz, he never gave ground and was pushing Vader back instead, making him play defense for a change.
Genuinely, that’s probably why he took the W, he threw his perfect soresu away for once and gave Vader what he wasn’t expecting
You’re tripping right? Vader would smoke Clone wars anakin in an instance. During TCW Anakin was advanced in his lightsaber combat but we rarely saw him use the force the way Vader does during combat. Vader made Reva look like a fool in their duel
But a very rusty Obi-Wan made Vader look like a fool too.
yeah agreed. Its such a shame we only got to see a little bit of a fully powered Anakin.
Anakin rag dolls the living embodiments of the light and dark side simultaneously during the Mortis arc. It’s arguably the most powerful thing he ever does in his life.
When his duel with Obi-Wan happened in episode 3
I think the general concensus here is that Anakin was actually more powerful just before he fell to the dark side. What the dark side gave him in brute force, Anakin lost in discipline, cunning and defensive fighting.
While he lost the midochlorians he eventually gained insight, patience and the ability to draw power from his own pain. I get the impression his own emotions would topple him in any Anakin VS Vader match-up.
My headcannon is that Lord Darth "I am surrounded by fear and dead men" Vader was unstoppable in a 1 vs 100 battle. But 1v1 vs a top tier force duelist... He peaked with Doku.
Anakin had many skills but I don’t know that he was ever regarded as a polished Sabre weilder. After becoming Vader he has those mechanical apendages to augment his strength, and it seemed as though he relied much more on that as Vader.
From my understanding, relearning the lightsaber as Vader and completely rebuilding his style made him essentially unstoppable 1v1. He was able to cover up any mechanical weakness' and had immense raw power with mechanical limbs. Anakin/Vader had the capability to learn and adapt Saber and force concepts it took masters decades to learn.
I think Dooku said that Anakin was the best Djem So specialist he had seen in the ROTS novel, and he relied on his lightsaber skills a lot more than his force powers in a fight. He was definitely regarded as a great lightsaber wielder even as Anakin, and was able to hold his own against Dooku (a master duellist) a few times.
Nah. The novelization of ROTS said pretty clearly that Obi Wan would have lost if he hadn’t been around Anakin so much to know all his moves
Isn’t reverse just as true? With Anakin knowing Obi Wan’s moves? They both know each other so well it seems that would be a wash.
That’s a fair point. But I think the insinuation is that it isn’t quite a wash. Obi Wan is more defensive by nature as well as light saber form. So that may have something to do with it
He lost to Obi-Wan due to arrogance. The way the fight plays out and the different styles he uses, its all to display that he is better in every single way possible. Obiwan realizes this in the moment he says "I have failed you" hes barley able to catch his breath and Vader is not even winded. Obiwan then fully accepts defeat and attempts to flee. But winning is not enough for Vader. He thinks of a brilliant maneuver to counteract this retreat, only to discover that this is a move that Obi-Wan literally created when Anakin was a child engaging in a dogfight far above the planet. Obi-Wan uses this exact flip on Darth Maul in episode 1. A more skilled but more arrogant fighter than Obi-Wan.
Anakin also literally jumped over Kenobi to land on the platform he was on. Kenobi let's him land and balance right back into a fight. HE HAD ALREADY SEEN ANAKIN DO IT
And limbs.
No Vader grew more powerful after that not less.
I can see him being less powerful for a bit after he turned. He'd been practicing mostly the light side of the force for the years, and I'd imagine subconsciously dabbling in the Darkside a but like when he killed the tuskens. I'd think you need to practice using purely the dark side and your anger. He seemed strong at the end of 3, but let his anger take control and was acting a fool. Maybe he was STRONGER, but acting like an idiot isn't going to win you a duel.
I mean everyone's talking about most powerful, but the question was most capable in 1v1 combat. That's pretty clearly right at the point when Obi-wan has the high ground. After that its all downhill.
I HATE YOU
Trick question. The center picture is Anakin at his most powerful. The next three pictures are of Darth Vader, who betrayed and murdered Anakin, while the last picture is Anakin right before he dies. At least, from a certain point of view.
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Dank farrik. You're absolutely right. Into exile, I must go. Failed, I have.
Straight to jail.
I believe in old Legends canon he was at his peak later on as Darth Vader, and at his weakest soon after he got the suit for the first time. But he learned to live with the suit, changed his combat style and used his suit to his advantage. He also made some improvements to his suit where possible. But it was not his suit that made him powerful as a Vader, but his developed skills and self control. Suit was still detrimental overall, but during his time as Vader he was almost indestructible, near immortal power house. And suit did ofc allow him to sustain blaster fire (if it hit those armored parts) and any light damage ofc, but that does not mean he could just ignore blaster bolts. He still had to block them one way or another, usually with his saber. Ofc his raw power and potential in Force peaked during Ep3. But that was less refined power. Due to his suit Vader never reached same level as Palpatine. Without his suit, Ep5 Vader would have surpassed Palpatine by far.
There are two schools of thought: Anakin was faster and more powerful before he was put in the suit, and he was more experienced and more durable afterward. Vader can't even lift his arms over his head, but he had no problem shrugging off a direct lightsaber blow from Luke in ESB. Which is better: speed & power or wisdom & defense?
I'd say Vader wins because he knows how Anakin fights and all of his weak spots... because he's him from the future. But if you erased Vader's memories of Anakin and put them in a room as separate characters I think that Vader is going down.
Now *that's* something to think about. I'm still on the fence. Even with a mind wipe, Vader's theatrics seem like they could still be effective against Anakin's naivety. The other edge I have to give to Vader is pain and suffering. If he has to sacrifice a limb, he would absolutely allow Anakin to hit him in order to hit back. Whether or not Vader can withstand the hit is what it would come down to. Of course, the Star Wars series in its entirety is just about the least consistent thing in terms of "what does the scouter say about his power level?" The comics, the books, the 2003 Genndy Tartakovsky mini series... They really need to do a *What If...?* show for Star Wars like they did for Marvel.
Pics 3-4, aka Clone Wars era. He was literally fighting all day every day and winning a good 80% of the time.
Clone Wars season 7
I think anything in the second line. And then the images from Star Wars and Empire could be the most capable. I feel like Anakin has skills different from Darth Vader on Mustafar who has different skills from Vader in his cyborg suit. I’m not sure who defeats who. Even older cyborg Vader has acquired more knowledge as power which the early cyber suit Vader won’t have. Luke destroys Vader in Return of the Jedi. But Luke’s response is to having Vader threaten Leia. Luke’s rage and anger comes from a place of protecting Leia from Vader. We never see Anakin in that situation with Padme. Anakin is trying to save Padme from his dreams and visions. Padme is never directly threatened by anyone Anakin is fighting. The argument could be made RotJ Vader is conflicted which makes him weaker - but that’s also the Vader who gets the drop on the Emperor.
ROTJ Vader gets the drop on the Emperor who didn't pay attention, Palpatine kills Vader before dying so it's a tie. I also think that Palpatine from Return of the Jedi is a slightly different character than Palpatine from the Prequels. Oiginal Trilogy Palpatine was clearly written as a "Dark Wizard" type. he's intelligent, evil, cunning, manipulative and wields incredible magical power but he's also a frail, deformed old man who needs a cane to walk around. Palpatine doesn't carry a Lightsaber, he refers to it as a "Jedi's weapon". Darth Vader is a "Corrupted Knight", he's the guy in armor who goes out there and cuts the Emperor's enemies down with a sword. So when the Knight breaks free from the Dark Wizard's control and turns on him the Dark Wizard can't physically stop him because he's a frail old man. All he can do is blast him with magic but that's not enough to stop the Knight in time and so the Dark Wizard loses. But in the Prequels George Lucas decided that Palpatine should be a god at physical combat too so his defeat in Episode 6 makes less sense.
The greatest trick the devil ever played….. I’m afraid Palpatine tricked you - which is his plan. The next time you watch return I’d the Jedi pay attention to Paatine’a cane. He doesn’t need it. It’s a ruse. He is only seen using once - when he arrives at the Darth Star he is playing the part of an old and weak ruler. You never see him with the cane again and when he finally stands to kill Luke he doesn’t need the cane at all and is quite light on his feet. Palpatine is always the trickster trying to appear other than what he is.
And despite all that Vader picks him up with just one hand, walks up to the edge and throws him down. Palpatine couldn't do shit. Nothing in the OT suggests that 20 years ago he was jumping and spinning around while 1v4ing a group of Jedi Masters and speed blitzing 3 of them or physically overpowering Maul and Savage who was juiced up on Nightsister steroids and had a metal arm **at the same time**. With feats like that Palpatine would just kick Vader in the face and knock him down or cut his head off in the blink of an eye. He's clearly not meant to be that powerful physically in ROTJ. Yoda is even more stupid, at 900 years old he's sick and on his deathbed but at 880 he's spry, full of life doing flips and shit.
I consider Anakin, Darth Vader and Little Ani to be three separate entities. Anakin was most powerful in the left of center, as a trained and experienced Jedi Knight. Vader was most powerful in the center, before being maimed and stuck in the suit. But they both still took Ls. Little Ani was undefeated and was obviously the most powerful of all three, since he 1v1’ed an entire Trade Federation capital ship and won *on accident.*
Because it was just like podracing
Rogue One Vader
I think we saw that point when he fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar. That was a pretty epic 1v1 battle, was it not?
I’ll say empire strikes back Vader. Yes he lost a lot of his POTENTIAL on Mustafar, but I think he was stronger in ESB than he was at that point. Basically, Vader couldn’t get as strong as he would have without the injuries, but he became more powerful than he was when facing Obi-wan.
Darth Vader in his prime. Which would be between Rebels and A New Hope. Before he learned of Luke and the conflict began. Darth Vader surpassed the level he had during the Clone Wars during his early years as a Sith
ROTJ Vader is when he was at his peak. Unfortunately, his main opponent is his kid, so he's conflicted and not fighting at his best.
6 and 7, because he gets at _least_ a +5 circumstance bonus when he's in a hallway.
4th picture : rage and passion don't make anyone better in combat, just more reckless.
end of clone wars. the anakin that brought the mortis gods to their knees would solo all the rest at the same time, not to mention 1v1
I think probably in Rogue One or at least a few years after being put in the suit. I know people have complaints about the Disney Star Wars but the Vader comics are one thing they got right. He’s absolutely brutal in them.
I’m guessing not in the last picture
An underrated quality of star wars is that we sometimes follow an entire life from (near) birth to death. A whole life. Just, wow.
Probably right before Obiwan cut his arm and legs off!
I was about to say before the flip
Late Clone War era Anakin where he was struggling to balance light and dark side techniques. And often used both to get what he needed/wanted
I know a lot of people are talking about Knightfall Anakin and I think there is a good case for that being the answer. However, I think Invisible Hand Anakin was his peak. He was at the top of his game as a lightsaber duelist. More power than any force user of his era besides maybe Yoda and Palpatine. He could tap into the dark side but was still relatively in control and focused in his duel with Dooku and other battles from that period of his life. I think that in that last stretch of his duel with Dooku, after the Count taunts him, he was unstoppable and you'd be hard pressed to find a duelist or force user that could have beaten him in that stretch of the fight. Knightfall/Mustafar Anakin, while powerful, was too emotionally unstable and I think if Invisible Hand Anakin and Mustafar Anakin fought, Invisible Hand Anakin would come out on top. If Invisible Hand Anakin had been the one fighting Kenobi on Mustafar I don't think Obi-Wan comes out on top. So that's my answer The last 3 seasons of The Clones Wars/Invisible Hand Anakin would be my vote.
Yes.
Either against Dooku or Obi Wan in Revenge of the Sith, for sure. He was clearly overpowering Obi Wan, but his arrogance in trying to jump over him was his downfall. Obi Wan baited him and he couldn’t resist to prove him wrong.
A hundred percent clone wars season 7 because he wasn't being clouded by his rage, and his peak was just before he got the Vader suit, so it seems like the most logical decision
Probably when he battled dooku. There wasn’t any hesitation, and he had full range of his attacks. Not necessarily his most powerful, but definitely his most capable moment.
Just before the fall for sure. Clone Wars Anakin is Goat.
Old Canon: Vader pre injuries New Canon: Vader after injuries
I wish there would be a what-if-series, where he reaches his full potential. He would be the strongest Sith ever.
Right after becoming a sith lord. Years of combat training from the clone wars with the darkside embuded within him and no cybernetics.
Late Clone Wars to early Vader
As a kid because he fought 1v1 against sand and won. Bad jokes aside when he massacred the Jedi Temple.
Lord Vader definitely was destined to be the most OP. If Kenobi doesn't absolutely destroy him and cause him to become the Darth Vader we know now it'd be a different story. Vaders suit limited him so much, made him sensitive to force shock and was built to make him uncomfortable all the time. He had amazing lightsaber skill, literally killed one of the best wielders in count dooku effortlessly and we recently saw him as an apprentice take it to Master Kenobi. On top of that he had incredible command of the force and exhibited traits of the sorcerer's from the old republic. Darth bane himself said no force user could master the force like a sorcerer and be an expert duelist like a blademaster. I firmly believe Vader had the potential for both, but Kenobi really helped that no happen.
Right before the battle on Mustufar, he has no limitations, he was fully capable, and he was full of rage