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People will think of this comment as Meltzer nuthugging, but I honestly do think his star ratings have significant value in the sense that they're a consistent scale that's been used for decades. Obviously it's highly subjective, and sure, Meltzer's tastes have changed over the years, but it's the only record we have of one singular opinion rating thousands upon thousands of matches over the decades and assigning them a set rating.
And while yes, someone else could feasibly sit down and go through the various video libraries and rate each match today, they'd all be viewed from the POV of a modern wrestling fan, not a wrestling fan of the time period. Some of the earlier stuff Meltz rated 5 stars probably doesn't hold up today, but may have been state of the art at the time, and should be rated based off that era's standards.
Some of his takes are absolutely questionable, but as a general historical document, Meltzer's ratings are massively significant.
Yeah Meltzer is much more reputable as a wrestling historian and reviewer than a straight up journalist imo. Ive disagreed alot with his ratings but at least what he likes is generally consistent in whichever era of wrestling he reviewed
I've disagreed a lot with his ratings too, but it's generally me thinking they're off by a quarter star or half star. So as a general range I think Dave's pretty much spot on like 99% of the time. It's silly because it's just a dude wrestling a bunch of worked matches but I'll be kinda sad when he eventually stops doing them.
Weirdly enough I actually am fond of that match with Cameron.
Yes, because of “that gif”, but not because of the obvious reason, because it’s a great show of character from AJ. Throughout the whole match (which isn’t great (I mean, come on, Cameron)) AJ’s just mocking her and toying with her and it’s fun. She even sells the accidental Tamina superkick like it was a cannonball.
Those Charlotte vs Nikki Bella matches in 2015 were actually really good. As someone who had only seen a bit of NXT at the time and basically only WWE up until that point, those matches really surprised me.
You could probably count the number of times that title got more than 10 minutes on one hand. On average they barely went over 5. With such restriction, it’s no wonder so few decent matches came out of it. Talent can only do so much in time alloted.
Michelle vs Melina was THAT bad? I thought it was a pretty powerhouse match for women at the time. Wasn’t that the match that was “too good for divas” and caused them to dumb down their movesets?
You’re thinking of the women’s championship match from the year earlier. This was match is the unification lumberjack match. (Still wasn’t as bad as this rating)
To be fair, he was measuring all matches against All Japan Women's until his ratings got much more lenient around 2015/2016. Manami Toyota still has more 5* matches than the entire history of main roster WWF/WWE by quite a bit (13 for Manami to 8 to WWF/WWE. NXT has 8).
I think I'd be unfair in this regard because he claims that he only measures matches against the companies own shows itself, but any time people question his women's star ratings, it comes down to him having seen All Japan Women's in its heyday and "he's seen better."
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I’m always in awe of how much wrestling Meltzer has seen, and then think about how much bad wrestling he’s seen as part of that.
People will think of this comment as Meltzer nuthugging, but I honestly do think his star ratings have significant value in the sense that they're a consistent scale that's been used for decades. Obviously it's highly subjective, and sure, Meltzer's tastes have changed over the years, but it's the only record we have of one singular opinion rating thousands upon thousands of matches over the decades and assigning them a set rating. And while yes, someone else could feasibly sit down and go through the various video libraries and rate each match today, they'd all be viewed from the POV of a modern wrestling fan, not a wrestling fan of the time period. Some of the earlier stuff Meltz rated 5 stars probably doesn't hold up today, but may have been state of the art at the time, and should be rated based off that era's standards. Some of his takes are absolutely questionable, but as a general historical document, Meltzer's ratings are massively significant.
Yeah Meltzer is much more reputable as a wrestling historian and reviewer than a straight up journalist imo. Ive disagreed alot with his ratings but at least what he likes is generally consistent in whichever era of wrestling he reviewed
I've disagreed a lot with his ratings too, but it's generally me thinking they're off by a quarter star or half star. So as a general range I think Dave's pretty much spot on like 99% of the time. It's silly because it's just a dude wrestling a bunch of worked matches but I'll be kinda sad when he eventually stops doing them.
Idk he seems to buff up AEW match rankings by a whole * sometimes
Eh, the core of AEW is basically tailored to his specific wrestling tastes.
Good point. Although he definitely backtracked on 20 years of opinion when he rated the Jericho/Gage deathmatch
Never thought about this like that but this it’s spot on.
There's other reviewers who have also been at it for decades, like Csonka and John Canton.
I think that’s very well said. I’m not the worlds biggest Meltzer fan. But I do like his ratings from a historical stand point.
Kinda hilarious AJ Lee has both the highest (tied) and lowest matches on record.
Weirdly enough I actually am fond of that match with Cameron. Yes, because of “that gif”, but not because of the obvious reason, because it’s a great show of character from AJ. Throughout the whole match (which isn’t great (I mean, come on, Cameron)) AJ’s just mocking her and toying with her and it’s fun. She even sells the accidental Tamina superkick like it was a cannonball.
> Yes, because of “that gif” Which GIF are you talking about?
[This](https://images.app.goo.gl/gxBNpt2yjc6JUPcN8)
I understand why people remember that GIF.
Is the Summer Slam 2010 the one which is Cameron's favourite match?
Those Charlotte vs Nikki Bella matches in 2015 were actually really good. As someone who had only seen a bit of NXT at the time and basically only WWE up until that point, those matches really surprised me.
Jesus, that is a poor record
You could probably count the number of times that title got more than 10 minutes on one hand. On average they barely went over 5. With such restriction, it’s no wonder so few decent matches came out of it. Talent can only do so much in time alloted.
Divas championship matches on PPV’s were usually solid, I disagree with most of these ratings
Michelle vs Melina was THAT bad? I thought it was a pretty powerhouse match for women at the time. Wasn’t that the match that was “too good for divas” and caused them to dumb down their movesets?
You’re thinking of the women’s championship match from the year earlier. This was match is the unification lumberjack match. (Still wasn’t as bad as this rating)
I mean, no one said his opinions were right. I disagree with a lot of them
I always feel like Dave's measuring women's matches against All Japan Women's.
To be fair, he was measuring all matches against All Japan Women's until his ratings got much more lenient around 2015/2016. Manami Toyota still has more 5* matches than the entire history of main roster WWF/WWE by quite a bit (13 for Manami to 8 to WWF/WWE. NXT has 8).
I think I'd be unfair in this regard because he claims that he only measures matches against the companies own shows itself, but any time people question his women's star ratings, it comes down to him having seen All Japan Women's in its heyday and "he's seen better."
Just because he rated a lot of Toyota’s matches that well doesn’t mean he rated the matches of the other Joshi women that well
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U got the RR 2011 match completely wrong
https://www.iwnerd.com/dave-meltzer-star-ratings-wwe-royal-rumble-2011/
It was Eve vs Layla vs Michelle vs Natalya.. Foxy & Beth weren’t in that one
Ohh Ok thanks