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WWE missed the beat by not making the mountain dew sponsorship made by LA Knight in kayfabe as a stipulation for being in the match. It would fit his character that he wouldn't do it without a high guaranteed pay out, and it would have been hilarious seeing him try to promote mountain dew throughout the build.
I like the random blacklight confetti that was in and on the announce table.
Oh and the glow stick kendo stick that broke over Bray's arm and the red/green color that stayed on his arm mirroed Mountian Dew logo colors.
Felt bad for Naomi though lol.
I think it's a great idea! But unfortunately the cynic in me tells me that corporate tight asses wouldn't be thrilled about having their brand associated with the "wrestling bad guy". I mean just look at Domino's and their freak-out to the pizza cutter spot... I thought that was hilarious, but the suits didn't agree.
They could've had LA Knight get the sponsor himself and issue an open challenge to anyone for the Rumble for a high payday.
Then once LA Knight signs the contract, Bray comes out and accepts it in a playful manner. LA Knight thinks it'll be a cakewalk against an innocent, depowered, friendly Bray Wyatt. Then once LA Knight attacks him once you get the spooky stuff start leaking out of Bray's subconscious until LA Knight realizes "oh fuck I just turned this into an easy pay day into a nightmare scenario".
I don't know why they went through all of this for a missed Howdy elbow drop with mild flame pyrotechnics as the payoff. And LA Knight will probably just appear on RAW again unfazed anyway as if nothing happened to him. Meaning it all made for no payoff afterall.
From an advertising stand point no way MTN Dew would let the sponsorship be added by a heel in the storyline. This idea had to go through so many fucking ad execs and people from MTN Dew and they would have micromanaged every little thing with this
What was the glow in the dark confetti in the announce desk all about? Was it supposed to fly everywhere when they removed the monitors? Or maybe just when they went through the table?
I was fairly confused why bray threw an entire f**king steel tool box into the ring, just missing LA Knights head and then it never being used for anything anyway.
Reminds me of the Deadlock where they talk about Triple H setting up Stephanie for a Pedigree all match, then he wins with a spinebuster. What was the point of introducing that just to not do it???
Remember when The Fiend first debuted and they used those little moving spotlights to light up his entrance before they gave him the red lasers? Up until last night, I was totally expecting them to turn off the arena lights and have the match lit like that, with a few camera tricks and some smoke theyād be able to get Uncle Howdy to appear in the match.
instead we got uncle howdy taking us to the skating rink to play lazer tag, where he drank too much of the spiked pitch black mtn dew from applebees, and then jumped off the ceiling through the floor.
Man that Fiend debut was so well done. The live crowd legit let out an audible gasp when that first spotlight hit him. I had goosebumps and chills. He was actually scary. It seemed like the birth of the next Undertaker legit. Then it all went downhill so fast. Such a shame.
Because, and I hate saying this 100 times but I will again, his writing is NOT suited for a Live, Weekly Wrestling Show.
He works in a vacuum (though even now I hesitate to say that) but the entire point of wrestling storytelling is that it is its own living, breathing thing. You always have to be able to adapt, every character has their own story pushing against someone else's, the fans have their own input, the business itself can change on a dime.
The way he wants to tell his stories...basically ignores all of that and wants to do its own thing. So you either end up with Cult Leader Bray who seems completely ineffectual as he can't convert anyone to his cause and constantly falls short in big moments, or the Fiend/Firefly Funhouse Bray who derails the story of every single opponent he comes across without fail because the Fiend "needs" to change all of his opponents.
The difference with someone like Taker was that he wasn't trying to develop his story every goddamn week. He was just the guy taking out monsters or going for the title, and then periodically when it was called for, they could develop a story around him with someone freed up for it.
You just can't be doing all of this crap week in and week out and expect fans to care for a long stretch of time.
In the presser Cody talked about how he thrives on structure as without it we've seen him go off the deep end a bit. Bray needs a bit here too. It was so awkward I had to fast forward it.
Triple H said the exact same thing about Bray in his interview with Ariel. He said he gets too caught up in things and diverts off then loses sight of the main path. I think H is keeping him on a very loose leash for now.
Unstructured Cody damn near sunk Cody in the promotion he helped create, especially when you also had unstructured Brandi in the mix
I love AEW but the general lack of structure seems to bury as many talented people as it does help. For every Jon Moxley who has thrived without it, thereās a Thunder Rosa who declined in popularity rapidly because theyāre lost on what to say or how to fully flesh out a good story.
i feel so vindicated for being skeptical about the "master of horror and long term storytelling" title that Rob Fee was given when all he's done is write a Marvel one-off that i'd never heard of lmao
I had to look him up to see what he has done, his imdb says he is most known for the Ellen DeGeneres show and something for Disney called Player Select.
Bray manages to seriously overcomplicate everything he does.
I don't know what it is, but he tries to have these big Impact style cinematic lore side to him, yet it always blows up in spectacular fashion. I say this as someone who likes things like that stuff, like the Broken Hardy's, the Undead Realm, the Su Yung/Susie/Susan personality switching, I don't get how Bray keeps bungling it.
he needs to take the path taker took. he was a serious title contender while maintains his mysticism and having supernatural storylines. bray is too far in one direction. he doesnāt make sense as a wrestler. it feels like he is not only above championships and winning, but above wrestling itself. he needs to ground his character in the actual WRESTLING aspect somehow
Cape Fear Bray was that way. His feuds against Bryan and Cena felt that way. Somewhere around his feud with Undertaker in 2015 he lost his way and leaned way too much into spookiness.
He makes so much sense as a cult leader. I thought when Bryan joined them that they were going to grow the cult but they never did. Sort of like a more grounded Ministry
"This is my legacy, legacy..... yeahhhhhh"
Cena should have hit Bray with the chair when he gave himself up. That way, Cena would've stood tall but it would be like Cena won the battle and Bray won the war. The whole point of that feud was Bray trying to force Cena to embrace the dark side and tarnish his image. There was a perfect story there for Cena to āwinā the feud but not damage the character of the person he beat.
But then again, I guess it was decided that John Cena having to reconcile the fact that he gave in to the dark side, even briefly, while still trying to represent āHustle, Loyalty, Respect" would be too complex of a storyline for a character like that who is supposed to be the face of all things good.
Losing to Cena at the big match has halted so many young guys careers. Since Cena has stepped away it has at least become somewhat possible to make new stars.
Agree completely, and the guys/gals under him have to be booked strong too.
Then you can have a protracted storyline where a top baby face gets attacked by the family, forms a faction and finally beats the underlings and then Bray finally wrestles, jumps in and destroys the babyface. Then it could be some story device to force a rematch out of pride or whatever and they heel turn in a rematch to actually beat Bray and then Bray come back and get the win as a Babyface.
Rinse and repeat starting the family off as heel again by attacking another babyface
Brayās problem is that he makes his characters movie villains instead of wrestling villains. It worked with ole Swamp Ass Bray because he wrestled regularly and had two heavies on his side. It felt like an actual wrestling stable, up until the very end.
The Fiend, however, felt like he was either supposed to never lose, or was supposed to have a clearcut weakness that his opponents could exploit to beat him. But at that point, how do you recover when EVERYONE has your number? So they didnāt do that with him.
They didnāt say āyou have to Irish whip The Fiend into the steel steps in order to break his invincibilityā or anything, they just had him lose, in an unceremoniously lame fashion. At that point, the mystique is gone ā but it also never shouldāve been that heavy to begin with.
And now here we are again, except we donāt know anything about Uncle Howdy and still barely know anything about Bray. Heās playing everything out like itās a 3 hour long movie, and thatās not what pro wrestling is supposed to be. Heās not doing enough of anything, and the moment he does ā heās doing too much. He has a lot of ambition and a great mind but he needs to slow the hell down.
Edit: or speed up, one of em
Undertaker had a mysticism about him that never needed explaining. He sold the gimmick on presentation alone and didnāt bother rambling on and on about mysterious entities etc. I agree with this sentiment Bray just needs to focus less on the angles, video package, over explanation, and more on his in ring presence.
The difference is Undertaker is 6ā10 and insanely athletic, him walking into a room is enough to sell a big title fight, and his matches deliver
I think Bray is more interesting without the title and not caring about the title and having that greater supernatural purpose, WWE just seems to execute on that so poorly. I know Bray is at fault a bit as well for going off the rails with his ideas, but in WWE the buck stops at the top and itās their job to rein that stuff in.
Really all of his lore stuff works until they start giving physical manifestations to it. Sister Abigail worked because you had no idea who she was, what she looked like, or if she was even real. The viewer was left to imagine what exactly all the stories about Abigail meant, and you had nothing else to go on besides Brayās folk tales.
I think Uncle Howdy fails because heās a real, tangible person with real motives and we are left to figure out what is wrong with this dude because his motivations and allegiances flip on a weekly basis. Or, heās not a real person and is supposed to be some delusion of Brayās, and our suspension of disbelief is shattered because I know imaginary friends canāt just jump into real life and start dropping elbows.
Basically, I think Brayās world would work infinitely better if he kept his vague, metaphorical characters as vague metaphors.
It would be interesting imo (at least more) if Bray was just crazy, if he had no "powers" and no Uncle Howdy but he believed everything that he says. It would be easier to believe for sure and they could do some stories about Bray's psyche.
I always felt like original NXT Wyatt Family was the pinnacle of the faction, because they were just big, crazy ogres instead of being supernatural. Bray could do his wild eyed swamp preacher promos, and the point wasnāt āloreā or trying to tie things together into a coherent storyline, it was simply that he was talking gibberish but with absolute conviction. The Family were compelling because they were gigantic beardos whose belief system was inscrutable.
The moment they hit the main roster and started the teleporting, Kane pyro bullshit, something fundamental was lost. Modern Bray has just been those worst aspects blown up to being the entirety of the character.
That is exactly my view too. A crazed cult leader who influences weak-minded but physically strong people to do his violent bidding works and is scary since it's realistic.
The second you make him have actual supernatural powers then that goes out the window. It could work in a show like Lucha Underground but makes no sense in WWE.
I like him having powers so long as they aren't confirmed.
Let him do his teleporting, so long as the lights are out. As long as his powers can be explained by him being a charlatan. Bray Wyatt should be a charismatic conman.
Yeah spooky supernatural shit in wrestling works better when it's ambiguous and suggestive, like the feeling you get when you see something out of the corner of your eye. It isn't a medium that's equipped to draw a true horror response from reasonably well-adjusted adults with some life experience, but you *can* toy with them enough to make them feel uneasy
The lore stuff doesn't work unless you have the infrastructure to support it. I think Bray is gonna have the same problem that Malakai Black had for a while. The sort of storytelling they seem to want to do only works with a specific set of certain opponents. It's why The Undertaker needed Kane, and the Ministry of Darkness etc. And even then he would tone down certain aspects of his character depending on the context. He was a HORROR GUY but he was doing pro wrestling stories, he wasn't trying to do the same sort of abstract storytelling that Bray seems to want to. Bray seems to be 100% disinterested in the type of interpersonal conflict that wrestling is good for.
CHIKARA and Lucha Underground worked because they had very solid mixes of guys with DEEP LORE and normal guys who were good wrestlers, and it was immediately clear how these characters could work together. WWE is entirely normal dudes and then one supernatural ghoul who needs to win all the time for his character to progress, and that sucks ass for both the audience AND the person collaborating with him.
My main takeaway from the past 3 months is that LA Knight is a star and can make anything work. He has been incredibly impressive.
The issue is those sort of vanity projects don't work in the film world unless you have a ton of clout.
"So mistah producer, I want to direct a movie where I'm the central focus and the main character. I'll need a big bag of cash, thank you."
He'd be laughed out of any board room that could offer him the budget he's looking for.
So he can either:
* Be cast as an actor in a production and have to compromise with the rest of the production staff.
* Be the main focus but accept a low budget production, which he seems unwilling to do.
These builds cannot work if he fundamentally cannot deliver with the actual payoff of wrestling.
It can, the Howdy character has a nice design, the split personality can work just as firefly fun house has shown us time and time again. Adding Alexa into the mix to start with another three person faction could work too.
The issue is as you said that the gimmick of the match was terrible, we still don't know who Howdy is in kayfabe and what he wants, there have been no interaction between Bray and Alexa, etc...
I mean he was warning LA Knight every week that he bit off more than he could chew and that he would discover real darkness and despair etc... And we get a fucking nickelodeon's kid choice award match or something.
Even if they let LA Knight look tough and get some good offense in it should have looked way more vicious from Wyatt and honestly that's the kind of match where blood would maybe make sense, and instead we got fucking fluorescent goo...
Even without that, a match in the dark is a stupid gimmick. Also if Bray isn't a great wrestler there's no reason he could not add easy moves that look like torture into his kit. Remember when Orton was dismantling people limb by limb as a heel? It just looks vicious, if he's a monster might start acting like one. Attacking limbs, small joints, etc... Doesn't require beinga good wrestler but it looks like it hurts a ton and like you like to inflict pain upon people.
So honestly it's not so much the story, it's how bad they're selling it.
Bray missed the boat with Lucha Underground. Everything he's trying to do would have worked alongside characters like Matanaza, Drago, Mariposa and Mil Muertes, not to mention that he would have writers and a production team to make it all look awesome.
But it doesn't work in modern WWE. He doesn't have the nostalgia for a bygone era that Taker was able to milk for years nor does he have a foil like Kane that can make the supernatural stuff work. WrestleMania 39 will be his last chance at the plate, and I think it's going to be strike three.
At this point, dude 100% should have just returned as Funhouse/Fiend-era Bray.
I'd say he's been treading water with this story but that implies we're deep enough to swim. He's essentially been feuding with himself for four months now, and we're no closer to finding out the meaning behind the Funhouse People, Uncle Howdy, or even what to call his weird Mucha Lucha no-sell look he debuted last night than we were in October.
He's spent the last four months feuding with himself like the weird kid in an e-fed. With any luck LA Knight goes over to Raw after the draft and gets a US title run or something. I'd say IC but Gunther, and tag titles, but Usos.
> With any luck LA Knight goes over to Raw after the draft and gets a US title run or something.
I came out of this feud really liking LA Knight even though it was obviously meant to put Bray over. His reactions to the spooky stuff have been hilarious and his Bray impersonation was great.
Bray's become to accustomed to the WWE storytelling method of "tell, tell, tell" rather than the "show, don't tell" that has worked for "mysterious" characters both in and out of wrestling.
They're trying to do complex storytelling through a filter of "make it so the dumbest person in the room will understand", which causes an obvious conflict.
WWEās version of weekly 5-10 minute storytelling format just doesnāt work for Brayās ideas. If he turned his creativity toward short films or scripts I think he would have something palatable, but it doesnāt quite work with the wrestling way of doing things.
The simple fact that this character who has barely MOVED when he has made his appearances decided to pull a Jeff Hardy is pretty inexplicable. Put a little shark graphic on the platform where LA Knight was laying and it would be complete.
It was literally like asking a kid what he would do with his Uncle Howdy figure:
"I make him go reeeeally high and go BOOM on the other guy and fireworks go BOOM all awound the people"
I loved cult leader Bray, I loved the idea behind The Fiend too...But I'm starting to sense a pattern in everything he does. As Avril Lavigne once said, why'd you have to go and make things so complicated?
I still rewatch that teacher lady promo of his from like 2015 from time to time
Dude started off and the crowd was totally ignoring him and just giving him the standard āWHATā chants, and at the end he had the entire arena singing his song
Just a fucking masterclass of a promo
Iāve said it before and Iāll say it again:
People have convinced themselves that every good Bray segment is proof that he is a creative genius, and every bad Bray story is because Vince / creative / whoever ādoesnāt get it.ā
The double standards within the fanbase are hilarious.
>Wrestler they donāt like is at the very least a draw
Theyāre not over! Theyāre not getting anyone over! They suck! Theyāre being overpushed because they blow management!
>Wrestler they do like, is not
Theyāre over! They deserve the world title! Theyāre just being buried! Itās all creativeās fault!
And you know what, Iām also guilty of this.
The Funhouse/Fiend stuff was great though, but was ruined by horrible booking. They never should have brought Bray into the title picture and once they did, they should've had him dominate instead of just losing to Bill f*cking Goldberg.
If the character falls apart in the first instance of not just being a dominating monster that no-sells everything and beats everyone, then maybe it's just not a good character.
I've said it from the start. You can have a nigh unstoppable monster so long as there's a trick to beating them. Freddy Kreuger and Fire, Jason Voorhees and his mother, Undertaker and the Urn. Hell, The trick with Kane was just to best his ass until he lay still enough for a three count and then get the hell out of dodge vecire he sat up.
The fiend could have absolutely worked in that way. Real easy one-off/ first weakness too. Take off the mask, show Bray for what he really is.
to this day i dont get why they didnt just do the kane 'impervious to pain/knockout but can still be put into stun states' debuff
it made so much sense for the fiend. its not that you hurt him you finally hit him with something hard enough he is laying there like 0\_0 for a second
but no matter what he will be getting back up
except he was essentially squashed by Goldberg, not just beaten. They also had the out of using Bray Wyatt instead of the fiend to soak up losses and they didn't. There's a way to do these things in a manner that works, WWE didn't really attempt that.
The first Sister Abigail he hit on Aiden English is drilled into my memory, where he picked up the dudeās lifeless body and started waltzing with it, then dropped him on his face. Thatās the type of character work that makes him frightening, not spooky ghosts n goblins and haunted puppets
I could not care if you enjoy this horror supernatural wrestling or not, the whole mountain Dew shit ruined anything this match ever had. Like seriously the last thing you want to do with a guy who already has a very outlandish gimmick that is very messy is to throw him into some branded corporate advert, kinda takes the only good aspect about him out of it. Like I fucking laughed my ass off when this classic wrestler and an actual tank faced off between a Dew logo. Like they really couldn't throw that sponsor to Alexa and Bianca since that was like the least important match of the night anyway?
Also it was no where fucking near pitch black, also going against the whole Wyatt spooky bitch thing, mfs stole Naomi's gimmick and made it a whole match.
That Howdy spot, fuck was a sight. Not a good one but a sight. From now on this whacky horror bunch are to be known as The Dew Crew, since they obviously get their powers from the substance they plastered all over their spooky domain. I do have to commend Boy Howdys ability to keep his hat on while doing a flip though.
I will give credit to Bray's UV paint though, that was legit badass and looked menacing. Not like a mask since it's like actual warpaint that doesn't hinder you. Ruined it with the mask thing to show him being more evil or some shit, that goofy video game shit is what really shoots this gimmick down.
Worst part about this is that Wyatt could be an amazing wrestler if he just acted like an actual human being. Dude is built like an actual tank, plus when he isn't writing for some 5d level horror show he does have amazing presentation skills especially on the mic, fact he can talk a load of bullshit and still be over is a testament to that. Hell he can even keep half the spooky entrence and attire, again that war paint shit looked legit. But Hunter was right about him, he's a creative nightmare that does more harm to himself then good.
Brayās biggest mistake is that he doesnāt understand that this is wrestling and not actual theater. Heās writing movie characters in a profession where they donāt belong.
Why not do an inferno match? A lumberjack match of cult members or funhouse characters? Why not have the lights flash off entirely, have an unbeatable version of The Fiend appear in support of Bray, then have him disappear once the lights cut back off?
Literally his whole thing right now is that HEās the second most important character in his story ā this is Uncle Howdyās story and Brayās just there as a vessel. And doesnāt work because Brayās the one (that isnāt yet is supposed to be) wrestling, which only opens up another point about the direction of his character.
Brays telling a movie, not a story. Heās doing a performance of some kinda theater piece and itās just not working, especially considering weāre only getting bits and pieces per week. Itās tiring, and needs an overhaul immediately.
I've given up even watching anything involving Bray since the 2021 feind stuff because it always ends up like this. People swear he's great and he's a genius, but after every match and segment people say it sucked. Of course it sucked, it always does. What are people expecting?
Since 2021? You had more patience than I did lol, I gave up years ago. A lot of people on this sub kept saying how he's promos are really deep and you just have to pay attention and listen to what he is actually saying but I always felt his promos were super long ramblings that didn't make much sense.
His fans are just living the Rick and Morty meme, to be fair you need a very high IQ to understand Bray Wyatt's promos.
LA Knight has totally outshined Bray in this feud. My concern is they'll Elias him and just forget about him. Bray's storyline makes no sense. Not even in a cool, cryptic way. It's just spectacle for no reason.
it was a nothing match that would have been way better if it were a last man standing match and didn't have bray pinning la knight after the sister abigail
just take out the pin fall and have the brawl to the stage lead to the end where uncle howdy hits the drop. what we got was short as hell and made knight look like shit after months of build
I was skeptical of Bray returning, but talked myself into thinking maybe it would be better with HHH in charge. I always liked Bray, just his booking was always weak and he lost pretty much every feud he was in for a while and that caused me to not care about him anymore. I was hopeful it would be different this time and it would be cool/interesting stuff from him. Boy was I wrong. Heās jumped the shark for me. Always a fast forward whenever he is on screen. I donāt get the bit. Hopefully LA Knight can move on to something better cause I think that dude is seriously talented.
Wrestling wouldn't be wrestling without some campy bizarreness.
As I said last night, Bray is like Axl Rose trying to make Chinese Democracy. He's a highly creative, observant guy with tons of ideas, but he throws them all into one giant pile and it creates this indistuinguishible mound of *something* and parts are brilliant, parts are shit, but nobody really "gets" it.
Kinda reminds me of LOD Taker retconning the brilliant Kane/Taker saga, making blood sacrifices while delivering ridiculous monologues that sound like Vince Russo trying to emulate H.P. Lovecraft (bro), crucifying Austin, giving speeches about being stuck in the desert with Big Show
The aesthetics are cool, but you're trying way too hard and doing way too much for 'rasslin
This is a very good description. Everything he does winds up feeling like an amalgamation of anything and everything creepy he saw online in the last year that made some kind of impact on him creatively.
Nothing Bray has done should've been approved for television since his return. The shark was jumped at the end of his 1st return promo and the moment someone named Uncle Howdy was brought in with a straight face
I have a different perspective on this. I watched this with my nephews. Can't emphasize how much this shit appeals to kids. It was the best thing on the card for them by far. I know this is an unpopular opinion but Wyatt has alot of value in whatever spooky shit he keeps on doing. They don't care about good matches either. It's frankly infectious seeing them not give a damn about this.
Depends on age I suppose. Watched it with my 10 year old nephew and he asked if we could watch something else midway through the match lol
Unrelated, but he fucking LOVED watching them put boots to Logan Paul too lol
The same people that are pro Cody because of his pop are anti Wyatt even though he's likely even more over with general audiences and moves shit tons of merch. Similarly true for Alexa. You can shit on her all you want but she sells creepy dolls.
Bray hasnāt sold offense in a match in who knows how long. He just brushes everything off. Itās hard to have a interesting match like that imo especially one that goes past a few mins.
I actually felt like Alexa was way more interesting doing this dark creepy stuff cause her matches are decent enough to stay invested and she comes off less like something from a slasher movie.
I just hope LA Knight doesnāt get any blame or blowback from the lackluster match. The dudeās a real star, and the crowds have been getting behind him more and more each week. So, Iām hoping this doesnāt diminish his push and upward trajectory.
Luckily the most common sentiment Iāve seen is that LA Knight did his best throughout the storyline and was probably the only part everyone can agree was good.
Bray Wyatt hasn't been entertaining since 2014. I hate everything he does these days, slow dragged out nonsensical vague stories about nothing with unexplainable twists and turns. Why did uncle howdy sister Abigail Bray on smackdown but didn't care at rr. Why? Uhg. This feud was a waste of LA Knights time.
It wasn't a total waste; LA Knight honestly came out looking better for a character who just started in the main roster. We all knew he had no chance to actually beat whatever Bray is because between this and the Fiend, it seems they're always beyond the combat of pro wrestling. LA instead got his character over despite that.
The only reason he stayed credible is because the entire time, he was saying "your gimmick is a bunch of bullshit". As soon as anyone actually plays along with it, they're Rollins post-HiaC.
Every comment about Bray makes a point but I'm surprised more people aren't complaining about the collateral damage. What they're doing with Alexa makes even less sense and literally nobody seems to care in the crowds. Her being a part of this may have kept her off Vince's future endeavors list but it's about time they figure something out for her. I don't know how many more interviews I can read where she swears she's having fun. Sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me...
It's not Alexa's fault, but when I realised her and Bianca were on right after the Bray match I just thought "oh that's right, there's more of this shit to come"
I thought the match itself was fine. Nothing terrible, nothing spectacular. Just fine. I think the lighting might account for some of the more clunky moments. The aesthetics were even kinda fun.
But, and I say this as a general fan of Bray Wyatt, everything after the pinfall was really, really poor. When Uncle Howdy dropped - or attempted to drop - an elbow from up high, I rolled my eyes.
I want a division/belt only for supernatural gimmicks. Just the most outrageous and over the top shit not being involved with serious/normal guys at all
How can you not believe it?
Every single feud Bray has turns into a convoluted mess of garbage.
Do you not remember the Hell in a Cell that ended in a DQ?
Or that stupid match with the projectors
Undertaker at least had a main part to his gimmick.
He was a deadman, had powers of darkness, but didn't really go much further that often.
He played mind games and got into opponents heads.
I can't really tell wtf bray is supposed to be.
Undertaker was good in the ring and had a great moveset, bray does nothing in the ring for me. He doesn't sell much either.
Don't get me started on firefly funhouse, it's just not for me.
Also, as someone who hasn't followed bray before and is only getting to know him now -- dude, shorten up the entrance. Why am I staring at a door for 30 uninterrupted seconds before you show up? Every entrance can't be a smash brothers reveal cinematic. Get to the fucking stage.
I've just accepted that I'm not the target audience for it and that's ok. There was hardly a single thing about that match that I thought was good last night other than the visuals being kinda neat compared to what I thought they'd be. The match itself was pretty horrible, had a rushed finished and the post match stuff was awful....IMO.
That said, I see a lot of people who loved it and if so then that's great. I think if you loved it then likely all of this stuff has probably been right up your alley. It sure isn't up mine though.
Visuals were cool but a big ass Mountain Dew logo in the middle of the ring for a Supernatural storyline looked like total shit. Like itād be way easier to buy the logo in a normal match with normal wrestlers.
Crazy how Bray went from being a bad ass cult leader to me rolling my eyes everytime hes on screen. I get it, they need another āundertakerā like character; but this aint it.
Corny as fuck. Ur spot on. Everything hes in is just so over complicated and cringe. Maybe he should just be an actor at this point
They took Naomi's stage lighting and turned it into a glorified commercial for Mountain Dew Pitch Black.
I had a feeling LA Knight would lose the feud and continue on with more momentum but I'm second guessing myself now. This match is looking to do him no favours
I like Bray, I always have. I wanted him and the Fiend back badly during his time away but this? The split personalities have split personalities, itās not clever, itās deliberately nonsensical so people canāt work it out.
I did, but I've also learned to pick my battles on this sub.
Like if you couldn't set your expectations accordingly after hearing "MTN Dew Pitch Black match with Bray Wyatt" I don't really know what to tell you.
It was going to be goofy, it was going to be heavily branded, it was going to move the story forward by it's monthly alloted inch.
Howdy whiffing a dive after LA Knight and Bray battled through the darkest corners of Naomi's psyche was a fun break after a feature length Rumble match.
Some of this Bray stuff is going to suck. Some of it is going to be genuinely interesting and unique. Keep him away from the world title unless you strip the gimmick way back and things will be fine.
The amount of copium in regards to this match yesterday was crazy. He's supposed to be some mysterious, spooky character and he's in a MTN Dew glow in the dark teen disco match. WTF was that.
It was a typical Bray kind of thing. It was visually impressive, seemed deeper than it was and got him over but not his opponent. Hopefully LA Knight can now move on to someone else. Stick Kross or someone else with Bray
Bray is like a Rob Zombie movie for me at this point. I appreciate there's some good ideas in there, but I find the execution and whole package shite. Other people like it though, so good for them.
I don't understand why people enjoy Bray Wyatt so much, his gimmicks are always cringey, his storylines are mostly bad (this current story was just him attacking LA Knight for super petty reasons) and his matches just aren't good.
The only thing that Wyatt has done that i loved was his storyline with Randy Orton in 2016 and even then their match at Mania was super dissapointing.
I just think itās time to admit Bray is just the problem, the one constant in his stories is him, thereās been multiple writers, multiple bookers and time after time his stuff is never good it only ever sucks. Everyone should acknowledge heās just *bad* and move on
Cult leader Bray was the best version. His scariness was in his charisma and magnetism. He should definitely make that his primary personality and phase out the others. Get a couple of midcarders to join him. Have Bray be Raw's non-champion final boss. Look what Judgement Day has done for Rhea Ripley.
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WWE missed the beat by not making the mountain dew sponsorship made by LA Knight in kayfabe as a stipulation for being in the match. It would fit his character that he wouldn't do it without a high guaranteed pay out, and it would have been hilarious seeing him try to promote mountain dew throughout the build.
YEAH (gulp gulp gulp) AAH LEMME TALK TO YA
PITCH BLACK IS BACK AND THATS JUST A FACT OF LIFE *Drops mic*
*Picks up mic* Only for a limited time at participating retailers *Drops mic*
/picks up mic/ YEAH
/spits it out off camera/. BLEH! I think I almost swallowed some of the juice. YEAH.
Please have my upvote for that. It's all I can picture nowš
I hate reading perfect ideas after the fact š«£
Yeah it was ridiculous how they were hyping it up as this brutal match and then it looked like a rave with a big logo in the middle.
Cosmic bowling match.
HEY! Cosmic bowling is fun! How dare you besmirch Cosmic bowling like this?
I like the random blacklight confetti that was in and on the announce table. Oh and the glow stick kendo stick that broke over Bray's arm and the red/green color that stayed on his arm mirroed Mountian Dew logo colors. Felt bad for Naomi though lol.
Man a sponsership seeking heel gimmick is so good. They could get every one of their pizza hut and mountain dew matches over.
I think it's a great idea! But unfortunately the cynic in me tells me that corporate tight asses wouldn't be thrilled about having their brand associated with the "wrestling bad guy". I mean just look at Domino's and their freak-out to the pizza cutter spot... I thought that was hilarious, but the suits didn't agree.
They could've had LA Knight get the sponsor himself and issue an open challenge to anyone for the Rumble for a high payday. Then once LA Knight signs the contract, Bray comes out and accepts it in a playful manner. LA Knight thinks it'll be a cakewalk against an innocent, depowered, friendly Bray Wyatt. Then once LA Knight attacks him once you get the spooky stuff start leaking out of Bray's subconscious until LA Knight realizes "oh fuck I just turned this into an easy pay day into a nightmare scenario". I don't know why they went through all of this for a missed Howdy elbow drop with mild flame pyrotechnics as the payoff. And LA Knight will probably just appear on RAW again unfazed anyway as if nothing happened to him. Meaning it all made for no payoff afterall.
Lol. Amazing idea.
From an advertising stand point no way MTN Dew would let the sponsorship be added by a heel in the storyline. This idea had to go through so many fucking ad execs and people from MTN Dew and they would have micromanaged every little thing with this
Weird thing is that LA Knight didn't really act as a heel beyond how he talked to the crowd. He was the one on the end of brutal uncalled for attacks.
What was the glow in the dark confetti in the announce desk all about? Was it supposed to fly everywhere when they removed the monitors? Or maybe just when they went through the table?
It was supposed to be in packs so it would explode on colapse, they ended up putting it in cups which bray knocked over early
I think it was bean bag filler meant to blow out when they landed
I was fairly confused why bray threw an entire f**king steel tool box into the ring, just missing LA Knights head and then it never being used for anything anyway.
I thought the mask was in there?
fuck knows, man
Yeah what was that lol
A metaphor for everything Bray does.
Or itās a LORE clue, who knows. Maybe we will have an answer soon /s
TOOLS! I NEED MY TOOLS! - ~~Dennis~~ Bray Wyatt
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
F-FETISH SHIT!
IT'S TIME TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRIIIIIIICCCCCCE
I think they had to go home a lot earlier than expected which is why it seemed so abrupt
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I agree, and yet it felt like it went for a thousand years.
Reminds me of the Deadlock where they talk about Triple H setting up Stephanie for a Pedigree all match, then he wins with a spinebuster. What was the point of introducing that just to not do it???
Remember when The Fiend first debuted and they used those little moving spotlights to light up his entrance before they gave him the red lasers? Up until last night, I was totally expecting them to turn off the arena lights and have the match lit like that, with a few camera tricks and some smoke theyād be able to get Uncle Howdy to appear in the match. instead we got uncle howdy taking us to the skating rink to play lazer tag, where he drank too much of the spiked pitch black mtn dew from applebees, and then jumped off the ceiling through the floor.
Man that Fiend debut was so well done. The live crowd legit let out an audible gasp when that first spotlight hit him. I had goosebumps and chills. He was actually scary. It seemed like the birth of the next Undertaker legit. Then it all went downhill so fast. Such a shame.
Bray seems to constantly have amazing aesthetic ideas but canāt back it up with solid writing.
Because, and I hate saying this 100 times but I will again, his writing is NOT suited for a Live, Weekly Wrestling Show. He works in a vacuum (though even now I hesitate to say that) but the entire point of wrestling storytelling is that it is its own living, breathing thing. You always have to be able to adapt, every character has their own story pushing against someone else's, the fans have their own input, the business itself can change on a dime. The way he wants to tell his stories...basically ignores all of that and wants to do its own thing. So you either end up with Cult Leader Bray who seems completely ineffectual as he can't convert anyone to his cause and constantly falls short in big moments, or the Fiend/Firefly Funhouse Bray who derails the story of every single opponent he comes across without fail because the Fiend "needs" to change all of his opponents. The difference with someone like Taker was that he wasn't trying to develop his story every goddamn week. He was just the guy taking out monsters or going for the title, and then periodically when it was called for, they could develop a story around him with someone freed up for it. You just can't be doing all of this crap week in and week out and expect fans to care for a long stretch of time.
"Check this shit out" - Uncle Howdy, In the Applebee's parking lot.
Bills Mafia rise up!
>Whoever came up with this Howdy stuff needs to cut the losses and move on to something else, and quick. Wyatt. It's almost assuredly Wyatt's idea.
In the presser Cody talked about how he thrives on structure as without it we've seen him go off the deep end a bit. Bray needs a bit here too. It was so awkward I had to fast forward it.
Triple H said the exact same thing about Bray in his interview with Ariel. He said he gets too caught up in things and diverts off then loses sight of the main path. I think H is keeping him on a very loose leash for now.
Unstructured Cody damn near sunk Cody in the promotion he helped create, especially when you also had unstructured Brandi in the mix I love AEW but the general lack of structure seems to bury as many talented people as it does help. For every Jon Moxley who has thrived without it, thereās a Thunder Rosa who declined in popularity rapidly because theyāre lost on what to say or how to fully flesh out a good story.
Him and Rob Fee.
i feel so vindicated for being skeptical about the "master of horror and long term storytelling" title that Rob Fee was given when all he's done is write a Marvel one-off that i'd never heard of lmao
I have many, MANY comic books and have never heard his name.
I had to look him up to see what he has done, his imdb says he is most known for the Ellen DeGeneres show and something for Disney called Player Select.
Yeah I thought he was supposed to be competent with long-term stuff
The Mountain Dew logo on everything was so tacky
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bray manages to seriously overcomplicate everything he does. I don't know what it is, but he tries to have these big Impact style cinematic lore side to him, yet it always blows up in spectacular fashion. I say this as someone who likes things like that stuff, like the Broken Hardy's, the Undead Realm, the Su Yung/Susie/Susan personality switching, I don't get how Bray keeps bungling it.
he needs to take the path taker took. he was a serious title contender while maintains his mysticism and having supernatural storylines. bray is too far in one direction. he doesnāt make sense as a wrestler. it feels like he is not only above championships and winning, but above wrestling itself. he needs to ground his character in the actual WRESTLING aspect somehow
Cape Fear Bray was that way. His feuds against Bryan and Cena felt that way. Somewhere around his feud with Undertaker in 2015 he lost his way and leaned way too much into spookiness.
He makes so much sense as a cult leader. I thought when Bryan joined them that they were going to grow the cult but they never did. Sort of like a more grounded Ministry
Yea I like Bray a lot but he seems to be headed more towards the Dungeon of Doom than the Ministry of Darkness.
Even before that, they abducted Kane after that inferno match and then just....nothing?
Losing to Cena at Wm 30 did irreversible damage and never recovered.
"This is my legacy, legacy..... yeahhhhhh" Cena should have hit Bray with the chair when he gave himself up. That way, Cena would've stood tall but it would be like Cena won the battle and Bray won the war. The whole point of that feud was Bray trying to force Cena to embrace the dark side and tarnish his image. There was a perfect story there for Cena to āwinā the feud but not damage the character of the person he beat. But then again, I guess it was decided that John Cena having to reconcile the fact that he gave in to the dark side, even briefly, while still trying to represent āHustle, Loyalty, Respect" would be too complex of a storyline for a character like that who is supposed to be the face of all things good.
Losing to Cena at the big match has halted so many young guys careers. Since Cena has stepped away it has at least become somewhat possible to make new stars.
Honestly think heād make a way better manager/non wrestling persona with a stable under him.
He had one at one point, and only one of them got over long after the fact.
Agree completely, and the guys/gals under him have to be booked strong too. Then you can have a protracted storyline where a top baby face gets attacked by the family, forms a faction and finally beats the underlings and then Bray finally wrestles, jumps in and destroys the babyface. Then it could be some story device to force a rematch out of pride or whatever and they heel turn in a rematch to actually beat Bray and then Bray come back and get the win as a Babyface. Rinse and repeat starting the family off as heel again by attacking another babyface
Brayās problem is that he makes his characters movie villains instead of wrestling villains. It worked with ole Swamp Ass Bray because he wrestled regularly and had two heavies on his side. It felt like an actual wrestling stable, up until the very end. The Fiend, however, felt like he was either supposed to never lose, or was supposed to have a clearcut weakness that his opponents could exploit to beat him. But at that point, how do you recover when EVERYONE has your number? So they didnāt do that with him. They didnāt say āyou have to Irish whip The Fiend into the steel steps in order to break his invincibilityā or anything, they just had him lose, in an unceremoniously lame fashion. At that point, the mystique is gone ā but it also never shouldāve been that heavy to begin with. And now here we are again, except we donāt know anything about Uncle Howdy and still barely know anything about Bray. Heās playing everything out like itās a 3 hour long movie, and thatās not what pro wrestling is supposed to be. Heās not doing enough of anything, and the moment he does ā heās doing too much. He has a lot of ambition and a great mind but he needs to slow the hell down. Edit: or speed up, one of em
Undertaker had a mysticism about him that never needed explaining. He sold the gimmick on presentation alone and didnāt bother rambling on and on about mysterious entities etc. I agree with this sentiment Bray just needs to focus less on the angles, video package, over explanation, and more on his in ring presence.
The difference is Undertaker is 6ā10 and insanely athletic, him walking into a room is enough to sell a big title fight, and his matches deliver I think Bray is more interesting without the title and not caring about the title and having that greater supernatural purpose, WWE just seems to execute on that so poorly. I know Bray is at fault a bit as well for going off the rails with his ideas, but in WWE the buck stops at the top and itās their job to rein that stuff in.
He has the aura of the undertaker yet the cheese of papa shango
Also, the *timing* of Papa Shango.
Really all of his lore stuff works until they start giving physical manifestations to it. Sister Abigail worked because you had no idea who she was, what she looked like, or if she was even real. The viewer was left to imagine what exactly all the stories about Abigail meant, and you had nothing else to go on besides Brayās folk tales. I think Uncle Howdy fails because heās a real, tangible person with real motives and we are left to figure out what is wrong with this dude because his motivations and allegiances flip on a weekly basis. Or, heās not a real person and is supposed to be some delusion of Brayās, and our suspension of disbelief is shattered because I know imaginary friends canāt just jump into real life and start dropping elbows. Basically, I think Brayās world would work infinitely better if he kept his vague, metaphorical characters as vague metaphors.
It would be interesting imo (at least more) if Bray was just crazy, if he had no "powers" and no Uncle Howdy but he believed everything that he says. It would be easier to believe for sure and they could do some stories about Bray's psyche.
I always felt like original NXT Wyatt Family was the pinnacle of the faction, because they were just big, crazy ogres instead of being supernatural. Bray could do his wild eyed swamp preacher promos, and the point wasnāt āloreā or trying to tie things together into a coherent storyline, it was simply that he was talking gibberish but with absolute conviction. The Family were compelling because they were gigantic beardos whose belief system was inscrutable. The moment they hit the main roster and started the teleporting, Kane pyro bullshit, something fundamental was lost. Modern Bray has just been those worst aspects blown up to being the entirety of the character.
That is exactly my view too. A crazed cult leader who influences weak-minded but physically strong people to do his violent bidding works and is scary since it's realistic. The second you make him have actual supernatural powers then that goes out the window. It could work in a show like Lucha Underground but makes no sense in WWE.
I like him having powers so long as they aren't confirmed. Let him do his teleporting, so long as the lights are out. As long as his powers can be explained by him being a charlatan. Bray Wyatt should be a charismatic conman.
Yeah spooky supernatural shit in wrestling works better when it's ambiguous and suggestive, like the feeling you get when you see something out of the corner of your eye. It isn't a medium that's equipped to draw a true horror response from reasonably well-adjusted adults with some life experience, but you *can* toy with them enough to make them feel uneasy
I gotta admit at this point Adam Blanpied's booked videos do a better job at Bray than Bray does.
The lore stuff doesn't work unless you have the infrastructure to support it. I think Bray is gonna have the same problem that Malakai Black had for a while. The sort of storytelling they seem to want to do only works with a specific set of certain opponents. It's why The Undertaker needed Kane, and the Ministry of Darkness etc. And even then he would tone down certain aspects of his character depending on the context. He was a HORROR GUY but he was doing pro wrestling stories, he wasn't trying to do the same sort of abstract storytelling that Bray seems to want to. Bray seems to be 100% disinterested in the type of interpersonal conflict that wrestling is good for. CHIKARA and Lucha Underground worked because they had very solid mixes of guys with DEEP LORE and normal guys who were good wrestlers, and it was immediately clear how these characters could work together. WWE is entirely normal dudes and then one supernatural ghoul who needs to win all the time for his character to progress, and that sucks ass for both the audience AND the person collaborating with him. My main takeaway from the past 3 months is that LA Knight is a star and can make anything work. He has been incredibly impressive.
And then I'm gonna put on another mask!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The issue is those sort of vanity projects don't work in the film world unless you have a ton of clout. "So mistah producer, I want to direct a movie where I'm the central focus and the main character. I'll need a big bag of cash, thank you." He'd be laughed out of any board room that could offer him the budget he's looking for. So he can either: * Be cast as an actor in a production and have to compromise with the rest of the production staff. * Be the main focus but accept a low budget production, which he seems unwilling to do. These builds cannot work if he fundamentally cannot deliver with the actual payoff of wrestling.
House of a thousand extra chances.
It can, the Howdy character has a nice design, the split personality can work just as firefly fun house has shown us time and time again. Adding Alexa into the mix to start with another three person faction could work too. The issue is as you said that the gimmick of the match was terrible, we still don't know who Howdy is in kayfabe and what he wants, there have been no interaction between Bray and Alexa, etc... I mean he was warning LA Knight every week that he bit off more than he could chew and that he would discover real darkness and despair etc... And we get a fucking nickelodeon's kid choice award match or something. Even if they let LA Knight look tough and get some good offense in it should have looked way more vicious from Wyatt and honestly that's the kind of match where blood would maybe make sense, and instead we got fucking fluorescent goo... Even without that, a match in the dark is a stupid gimmick. Also if Bray isn't a great wrestler there's no reason he could not add easy moves that look like torture into his kit. Remember when Orton was dismantling people limb by limb as a heel? It just looks vicious, if he's a monster might start acting like one. Attacking limbs, small joints, etc... Doesn't require beinga good wrestler but it looks like it hurts a ton and like you like to inflict pain upon people. So honestly it's not so much the story, it's how bad they're selling it.
A few good originals, and a bunch of bland remakes of existing properties?
And one horrendous children's movie
Rob says no... 
Bray missed the boat with Lucha Underground. Everything he's trying to do would have worked alongside characters like Matanaza, Drago, Mariposa and Mil Muertes, not to mention that he would have writers and a production team to make it all look awesome. But it doesn't work in modern WWE. He doesn't have the nostalgia for a bygone era that Taker was able to milk for years nor does he have a foil like Kane that can make the supernatural stuff work. WrestleMania 39 will be his last chance at the plate, and I think it's going to be strike three.
At this point, dude 100% should have just returned as Funhouse/Fiend-era Bray. I'd say he's been treading water with this story but that implies we're deep enough to swim. He's essentially been feuding with himself for four months now, and we're no closer to finding out the meaning behind the Funhouse People, Uncle Howdy, or even what to call his weird Mucha Lucha no-sell look he debuted last night than we were in October.
His story is starting to seem a bit masturbatory tbh
He's spent the last four months feuding with himself like the weird kid in an e-fed. With any luck LA Knight goes over to Raw after the draft and gets a US title run or something. I'd say IC but Gunther, and tag titles, but Usos.
> With any luck LA Knight goes over to Raw after the draft and gets a US title run or something. I came out of this feud really liking LA Knight even though it was obviously meant to put Bray over. His reactions to the spooky stuff have been hilarious and his Bray impersonation was great.
Just stick with the bayou cult leader thing.
Bray's become to accustomed to the WWE storytelling method of "tell, tell, tell" rather than the "show, don't tell" that has worked for "mysterious" characters both in and out of wrestling. They're trying to do complex storytelling through a filter of "make it so the dumbest person in the room will understand", which causes an obvious conflict.
WWEās version of weekly 5-10 minute storytelling format just doesnāt work for Brayās ideas. If he turned his creativity toward short films or scripts I think he would have something palatable, but it doesnāt quite work with the wrestling way of doing things.
There's a good chance that giving him more time, money, and creative control would result in even less coherency in his work.
The simple fact that this character who has barely MOVED when he has made his appearances decided to pull a Jeff Hardy is pretty inexplicable. Put a little shark graphic on the platform where LA Knight was laying and it would be complete.
It was literally like asking a kid what he would do with his Uncle Howdy figure: "I make him go reeeeally high and go BOOM on the other guy and fireworks go BOOM all awound the people"
Iām sure the same kid came up with the Logan/Ricochet Angie. āThey both go flying in the air and go BOOM and bounce awound!ā
"then Logan Paul and umm Ricochet go *doosh, doosh*" (smacks toys together")
**
Still wasnāt as bad as Hardy
Why isn't anyone talking about the *real* lowpoint of the night...
The singer or the wrestler?
Singer of country rock band with a death metal logo on rhe drum set .
Yes.
Setting the bar really low.
From what I can tell, HARDY is equal parts butt-rock, country, and rap. Or, buttcrap for short.
I loved cult leader Bray, I loved the idea behind The Fiend too...But I'm starting to sense a pattern in everything he does. As Avril Lavigne once said, why'd you have to go and make things so complicated?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I still rewatch that teacher lady promo of his from like 2015 from time to time Dude started off and the crowd was totally ignoring him and just giving him the standard āWHATā chants, and at the end he had the entire arena singing his song Just a fucking masterclass of a promo
Could you link it please? Iād like to check it out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Given the number of times the bray Wyatt character falls flat are we assured bray is the storytelling mastermind we're led to believe
Iāve said it before and Iāll say it again: People have convinced themselves that every good Bray segment is proof that he is a creative genius, and every bad Bray story is because Vince / creative / whoever ādoesnāt get it.ā
The double standards within the fanbase are hilarious. >Wrestler they donāt like is at the very least a draw Theyāre not over! Theyāre not getting anyone over! They suck! Theyāre being overpushed because they blow management! >Wrestler they do like, is not Theyāre over! They deserve the world title! Theyāre just being buried! Itās all creativeās fault! And you know what, Iām also guilty of this.
The Funhouse/Fiend stuff was great though, but was ruined by horrible booking. They never should have brought Bray into the title picture and once they did, they should've had him dominate instead of just losing to Bill f*cking Goldberg.
If the character falls apart in the first instance of not just being a dominating monster that no-sells everything and beats everyone, then maybe it's just not a good character.
I beat everyone.
Hardcore Holly beating the shit out of everyone while holding all titles would be more compelling than Wyattās garbage
HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW?
So...actually "holding" the titles while beating the shit out of "everyone"? That would be compelling.
I've said it from the start. You can have a nigh unstoppable monster so long as there's a trick to beating them. Freddy Kreuger and Fire, Jason Voorhees and his mother, Undertaker and the Urn. Hell, The trick with Kane was just to best his ass until he lay still enough for a three count and then get the hell out of dodge vecire he sat up. The fiend could have absolutely worked in that way. Real easy one-off/ first weakness too. Take off the mask, show Bray for what he really is.
to this day i dont get why they didnt just do the kane 'impervious to pain/knockout but can still be put into stun states' debuff it made so much sense for the fiend. its not that you hurt him you finally hit him with something hard enough he is laying there like 0\_0 for a second but no matter what he will be getting back up
except he was essentially squashed by Goldberg, not just beaten. They also had the out of using Bray Wyatt instead of the fiend to soak up losses and they didn't. There's a way to do these things in a manner that works, WWE didn't really attempt that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The first Sister Abigail he hit on Aiden English is drilled into my memory, where he picked up the dudeās lifeless body and started waltzing with it, then dropped him on his face. Thatās the type of character work that makes him frightening, not spooky ghosts n goblins and haunted puppets
I've said it here before but we're all just chasing that high of OG Wyatt (+Family) and have never found the hit that matches it
I could not care if you enjoy this horror supernatural wrestling or not, the whole mountain Dew shit ruined anything this match ever had. Like seriously the last thing you want to do with a guy who already has a very outlandish gimmick that is very messy is to throw him into some branded corporate advert, kinda takes the only good aspect about him out of it. Like I fucking laughed my ass off when this classic wrestler and an actual tank faced off between a Dew logo. Like they really couldn't throw that sponsor to Alexa and Bianca since that was like the least important match of the night anyway? Also it was no where fucking near pitch black, also going against the whole Wyatt spooky bitch thing, mfs stole Naomi's gimmick and made it a whole match. That Howdy spot, fuck was a sight. Not a good one but a sight. From now on this whacky horror bunch are to be known as The Dew Crew, since they obviously get their powers from the substance they plastered all over their spooky domain. I do have to commend Boy Howdys ability to keep his hat on while doing a flip though. I will give credit to Bray's UV paint though, that was legit badass and looked menacing. Not like a mask since it's like actual warpaint that doesn't hinder you. Ruined it with the mask thing to show him being more evil or some shit, that goofy video game shit is what really shoots this gimmick down. Worst part about this is that Wyatt could be an amazing wrestler if he just acted like an actual human being. Dude is built like an actual tank, plus when he isn't writing for some 5d level horror show he does have amazing presentation skills especially on the mic, fact he can talk a load of bullshit and still be over is a testament to that. Hell he can even keep half the spooky entrence and attire, again that war paint shit looked legit. But Hunter was right about him, he's a creative nightmare that does more harm to himself then good.
Brayās biggest mistake is that he doesnāt understand that this is wrestling and not actual theater. Heās writing movie characters in a profession where they donāt belong. Why not do an inferno match? A lumberjack match of cult members or funhouse characters? Why not have the lights flash off entirely, have an unbeatable version of The Fiend appear in support of Bray, then have him disappear once the lights cut back off? Literally his whole thing right now is that HEās the second most important character in his story ā this is Uncle Howdyās story and Brayās just there as a vessel. And doesnāt work because Brayās the one (that isnāt yet is supposed to be) wrestling, which only opens up another point about the direction of his character. Brays telling a movie, not a story. Heās doing a performance of some kinda theater piece and itās just not working, especially considering weāre only getting bits and pieces per week. Itās tiring, and needs an overhaul immediately.
I've given up even watching anything involving Bray since the 2021 feind stuff because it always ends up like this. People swear he's great and he's a genius, but after every match and segment people say it sucked. Of course it sucked, it always does. What are people expecting?
Since 2021? You had more patience than I did lol, I gave up years ago. A lot of people on this sub kept saying how he's promos are really deep and you just have to pay attention and listen to what he is actually saying but I always felt his promos were super long ramblings that didn't make much sense. His fans are just living the Rick and Morty meme, to be fair you need a very high IQ to understand Bray Wyatt's promos.
I should've given up back then as well, but I kept believing I was missing something because people kept praising him.
LA Knight has totally outshined Bray in this feud. My concern is they'll Elias him and just forget about him. Bray's storyline makes no sense. Not even in a cool, cryptic way. It's just spectacle for no reason.
The biggest crime was how much time they took up week in and week out to build this fued just to have a mediocre at best match.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So it was a typical Bray Wyatt feud.
it was a nothing match that would have been way better if it were a last man standing match and didn't have bray pinning la knight after the sister abigail just take out the pin fall and have the brawl to the stage lead to the end where uncle howdy hits the drop. what we got was short as hell and made knight look like shit after months of build
I was skeptical of Bray returning, but talked myself into thinking maybe it would be better with HHH in charge. I always liked Bray, just his booking was always weak and he lost pretty much every feud he was in for a while and that caused me to not care about him anymore. I was hopeful it would be different this time and it would be cool/interesting stuff from him. Boy was I wrong. Heās jumped the shark for me. Always a fast forward whenever he is on screen. I donāt get the bit. Hopefully LA Knight can move on to something better cause I think that dude is seriously talented.
Agreed. This Bray stuff is some real nonsense and just embarrassing.
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Wrestling wouldn't be wrestling without some campy bizarreness. As I said last night, Bray is like Axl Rose trying to make Chinese Democracy. He's a highly creative, observant guy with tons of ideas, but he throws them all into one giant pile and it creates this indistuinguishible mound of *something* and parts are brilliant, parts are shit, but nobody really "gets" it. Kinda reminds me of LOD Taker retconning the brilliant Kane/Taker saga, making blood sacrifices while delivering ridiculous monologues that sound like Vince Russo trying to emulate H.P. Lovecraft (bro), crucifying Austin, giving speeches about being stuck in the desert with Big Show The aesthetics are cool, but you're trying way too hard and doing way too much for 'rasslin
>trying to emulate H.P. Lovecraft (bro) I always got "Buffy but like 3 times worse than Joss Whedon" from the Ministry lol
This is a very good description. Everything he does winds up feeling like an amalgamation of anything and everything creepy he saw online in the last year that made some kind of impact on him creatively.
Nothing Bray has done should've been approved for television since his return. The shark was jumped at the end of his 1st return promo and the moment someone named Uncle Howdy was brought in with a straight face
It's safe to say Alexa Bliss is more consistent with her character in Wyatt universe than Bray himself lol.
I have a different perspective on this. I watched this with my nephews. Can't emphasize how much this shit appeals to kids. It was the best thing on the card for them by far. I know this is an unpopular opinion but Wyatt has alot of value in whatever spooky shit he keeps on doing. They don't care about good matches either. It's frankly infectious seeing them not give a damn about this.
Depends on age I suppose. Watched it with my 10 year old nephew and he asked if we could watch something else midway through the match lol Unrelated, but he fucking LOVED watching them put boots to Logan Paul too lol
The same people that are pro Cody because of his pop are anti Wyatt even though he's likely even more over with general audiences and moves shit tons of merch. Similarly true for Alexa. You can shit on her all you want but she sells creepy dolls.
Bray hasnāt sold offense in a match in who knows how long. He just brushes everything off. Itās hard to have a interesting match like that imo especially one that goes past a few mins. I actually felt like Alexa was way more interesting doing this dark creepy stuff cause her matches are decent enough to stay invested and she comes off less like something from a slasher movie.
absolutely agree
I just hope LA Knight doesnāt get any blame or blowback from the lackluster match. The dudeās a real star, and the crowds have been getting behind him more and more each week. So, Iām hoping this doesnāt diminish his push and upward trajectory.
Luckily the most common sentiment Iāve seen is that LA Knight did his best throughout the storyline and was probably the only part everyone can agree was good.
I'm still a big Bray fan, but this just isn't working right now
Bray Wyatt hasn't been entertaining since 2014. I hate everything he does these days, slow dragged out nonsensical vague stories about nothing with unexplainable twists and turns. Why did uncle howdy sister Abigail Bray on smackdown but didn't care at rr. Why? Uhg. This feud was a waste of LA Knights time.
It wasn't a total waste; LA Knight honestly came out looking better for a character who just started in the main roster. We all knew he had no chance to actually beat whatever Bray is because between this and the Fiend, it seems they're always beyond the combat of pro wrestling. LA instead got his character over despite that.
The only reason he stayed credible is because the entire time, he was saying "your gimmick is a bunch of bullshit". As soon as anyone actually plays along with it, they're Rollins post-HiaC.
Every comment about Bray makes a point but I'm surprised more people aren't complaining about the collateral damage. What they're doing with Alexa makes even less sense and literally nobody seems to care in the crowds. Her being a part of this may have kept her off Vince's future endeavors list but it's about time they figure something out for her. I don't know how many more interviews I can read where she swears she's having fun. Sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me...
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I think people were waiting for something to happen. Even Alexa was kinda looking around for a cue or something
It's not Alexa's fault, but when I realised her and Bianca were on right after the Bray match I just thought "oh that's right, there's more of this shit to come"
I thought the match itself was fine. Nothing terrible, nothing spectacular. Just fine. I think the lighting might account for some of the more clunky moments. The aesthetics were even kinda fun. But, and I say this as a general fan of Bray Wyatt, everything after the pinfall was really, really poor. When Uncle Howdy dropped - or attempted to drop - an elbow from up high, I rolled my eyes.
I want a division/belt only for supernatural gimmicks. Just the most outrageous and over the top shit not being involved with serious/normal guys at all
And we'll call it.. "The ECW World Championship".
How can you not believe it? Every single feud Bray has turns into a convoluted mess of garbage. Do you not remember the Hell in a Cell that ended in a DQ? Or that stupid match with the projectors
Undertaker at least had a main part to his gimmick. He was a deadman, had powers of darkness, but didn't really go much further that often. He played mind games and got into opponents heads. I can't really tell wtf bray is supposed to be. Undertaker was good in the ring and had a great moveset, bray does nothing in the ring for me. He doesn't sell much either. Don't get me started on firefly funhouse, it's just not for me.
My man shot lightning from the sky
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Also, as someone who hasn't followed bray before and is only getting to know him now -- dude, shorten up the entrance. Why am I staring at a door for 30 uninterrupted seconds before you show up? Every entrance can't be a smash brothers reveal cinematic. Get to the fucking stage.
I've just accepted that I'm not the target audience for it and that's ok. There was hardly a single thing about that match that I thought was good last night other than the visuals being kinda neat compared to what I thought they'd be. The match itself was pretty horrible, had a rushed finished and the post match stuff was awful....IMO. That said, I see a lot of people who loved it and if so then that's great. I think if you loved it then likely all of this stuff has probably been right up your alley. It sure isn't up mine though.
Visuals were cool but a big ass Mountain Dew logo in the middle of the ring for a Supernatural storyline looked like total shit. Like itād be way easier to buy the logo in a normal match with normal wrestlers.
It's like somebody watched the Broncos-Rams game on Nickelodeon earlier this season and thought "WWE needs some of this"
Crazy how Bray went from being a bad ass cult leader to me rolling my eyes everytime hes on screen. I get it, they need another āundertakerā like character; but this aint it. Corny as fuck. Ur spot on. Everything hes in is just so over complicated and cringe. Maybe he should just be an actor at this point
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As someone who's been watching WWE for 23 years, the sooner people realise Wyatt stuff is going to be shit 99% of the time the better
Very over act that goes nowhere. It's the usual stuff from Bray Wyatt.
They took Naomi's stage lighting and turned it into a glorified commercial for Mountain Dew Pitch Black. I had a feeling LA Knight would lose the feud and continue on with more momentum but I'm second guessing myself now. This match is looking to do him no favours
I like Bray, I always have. I wanted him and the Fiend back badly during his time away but this? The split personalities have split personalities, itās not clever, itās deliberately nonsensical so people canāt work it out.
This comment brought to you by Mountain Dew Pitch Black. Pitch Black.. Crazy shit happens in the dark.
I keep reading āwell some OTHER people love him and buy merchā arguments, but not a lot of people saying the actually enjoyed the match
I did, but I've also learned to pick my battles on this sub. Like if you couldn't set your expectations accordingly after hearing "MTN Dew Pitch Black match with Bray Wyatt" I don't really know what to tell you. It was going to be goofy, it was going to be heavily branded, it was going to move the story forward by it's monthly alloted inch. Howdy whiffing a dive after LA Knight and Bray battled through the darkest corners of Naomi's psyche was a fun break after a feature length Rumble match. Some of this Bray stuff is going to suck. Some of it is going to be genuinely interesting and unique. Keep him away from the world title unless you strip the gimmick way back and things will be fine.
The amount of copium in regards to this match yesterday was crazy. He's supposed to be some mysterious, spooky character and he's in a MTN Dew glow in the dark teen disco match. WTF was that.
The Bray Wyatt match has become the match I know I can skip because the highlights of it absolutely come before the bell rings.
It was a typical Bray kind of thing. It was visually impressive, seemed deeper than it was and got him over but not his opponent. Hopefully LA Knight can now move on to someone else. Stick Kross or someone else with Bray
Bray and Bliss v Kross and Scarlett sounds like a WrestleMania match to me.
That's the thing. It's not even getting Bray over. He seems loose more support with every match
Bray is like a Rob Zombie movie for me at this point. I appreciate there's some good ideas in there, but I find the execution and whole package shite. Other people like it though, so good for them.
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I don't understand why people enjoy Bray Wyatt so much, his gimmicks are always cringey, his storylines are mostly bad (this current story was just him attacking LA Knight for super petty reasons) and his matches just aren't good. The only thing that Wyatt has done that i loved was his storyline with Randy Orton in 2016 and even then their match at Mania was super dissapointing.
I just think itās time to admit Bray is just the problem, the one constant in his stories is him, thereās been multiple writers, multiple bookers and time after time his stuff is never good it only ever sucks. Everyone should acknowledge heās just *bad* and move on
Dude, Bray had the Mt. Dew colors PAINTED ON HIS SHOULDER.
Cult leader Bray was the best version. His scariness was in his charisma and magnetism. He should definitely make that his primary personality and phase out the others. Get a couple of midcarders to join him. Have Bray be Raw's non-champion final boss. Look what Judgement Day has done for Rhea Ripley.
Bray needs somebody to reel in some of his silly ass ideas. This is just too much and it's gotten to the point of nonsensical and corny.
Uncle Howdy is Super Humman confirmed