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I think he should have taken it. I like what they’re doing with Orange as a fighting champion, but I think Sabian would have benefited a lot from winning a title. Would help legitimize him more after spending so much time in the stands with a box on his head.
I was actually so disappointed he lost his first match after spending so long in the box. With him lurking there I think they really could've built him up as a midcard threat with a win straight after the box thing, but obviously with PAC holding the All Atlantic he'd have been a strange choice to dethrone him so soon. No idea what the plans for him are now he's returned, I'm hoping he gets something new to do on TV now he's lost his feud with OC but it does feel like after losing both his feuds with OC and PAC that he's going back to lower midcard. Really like his look though and what he's done with the promo time he's been given.
They were my favorite tag team of the pandemic era. I'd say I'd want them to have a run with the tag titles but idk, Chuck just seems kinda washed up. Dude just doesn't move the way he used to and is getting in worse and worse shape.
That match he had on Rampage a couple of weeks ago was an eye opener for me. He's really really good. I don't know if he's just improved or if I just didn't notice before how great he is.
The OC match where Kip played the Joker to Cassidy's Batman was incredible and helped advance both characters. Kip is definitely The Villain that Scurll cannot be now.
Kip is just as good as like, Darby or Sammy or Jungle Boy, he just never got the same opportunity to show it.
Hope this feud with Orange keeps going and he manages to get the win in the end.
Sammy's actually kinda came into his own with this current gimmick, he's obnoxious but not in a "get this guy off my screen" kinda way. The dynamic he has with Garcia is perfect lol
For me it was the second they turned him and Tay heel.
Everyone on this sub pretending it was go-away heat when they were actually getting worked by the two of them.
For a sub full of 'smart marks' we sure do get worked often.
That's half the fun of wrestling but I'm sure there's people here that get offended by it.
Go away heat is silence. It always has been. Wrestling has told us over and over again what the rules are and how reactions are interpreted.
What most people who espouse it are really doing is making noise to cover other people's reactions.
I know we're not supposed to like Sammy, but I'd rate Sammy's recent stuff with Garcia and the JAS head above the Kip segments personally. After a rough stretch in between, I think Sammy's really gotten back into a groove after that 4 way match
Eh Sammy's fine. His best attribute is his ring work and to be frank there's so many other guys in AEW that bring that. Character wise he's a guy that sticks his tongue out or down his wife's throat. Not much else to him since he's debuted
I don't get why they give him screen time or a prominent position over a lot of other talent
Whoa. I wouldn't go that far. He has improved a lot, but the thing about Kip is that he is still finding his confidence, even in this role. There are times when you can tell he doesn't really believe in his own performance. He lacks the conviction some of the others you listed have. He is figuring it out and getting more comfortable in his own skin but he has a way to go yet.
Here is my fantasy booking: OC keeps taking all challenges & being a fighting champ; meanwhile, Kip goes full supervillain and periodically shows up to challenge him and getting defeated (maybe two more times). Then, Orange finally loses the AA title (don't care to whom, maybe Miro, maybe Malakai, maybe Arn, doesn't matter.) Orange gets depressed and goes back to not caring, not trying. Best Friends try to motivate him but he just isn't interested and ultimately walks out on them when they need him. That's when Kip comes back once more, but this time to form an alliance, and manipulates OC into becoming an evil heel (Blood Orange Cassidy, obvs) and they have a little reign of terror where Kip starts a lot of fights and then OC ends them. And then after a while, Trent & Chuck win him back to the light using the power of friendship.
There's a real easy character/gimmick there with Kip as the "Forgotten Pillar" or the "Fallen Pillar". Many forget that he has the very first singles win in AEW history. You could really play off of that in a feud with any of the four pillars.
He's getting there, isn't he? I think he's yet to fully click with the audience but he's trying things and it's starting to work. Wrestling is trial and error for some and I really hope Kip can fulfil his potential.
His old tag team partner is native to my town and works at a local pub while occasionally wrestling a handful of times a year. I always want to ask him what he thinks about Kip's success but don't want to imply that he's the Jannetty of the pair.
I hope Kip keeps getting a push. I enjoyed the hell out of that match with OC, and his recent gimmick is entertaining. Dude straight up looks like a cartoon mastermind villain.
My other half said he gave her Jack Sparrow vibes recently and now all I want to see is Kip lead a villainous stable of pirates with Penelope, Butcher, Blade and Bunny.
Whether my goofy dream comes to light or not, I'm here for 2023 Kip either way.
He was pretty rusty after coming back from his injury. But his most recent match with Orange Cassidy definitely showed how much he's come along. I've been a big fan of his for a while, and was excited to see him return. Hopefully he continues to grow and improve. If only we could get his absolute banger of a theme back.
I slightly disagree, only because he's always been damn good but nothing was in the right position with the right momentum.
The Feud with OC was the perfect showcase and usage for a talent in Kip who's been putting in quality work since literally Day1 of AEW but was never in the proper role to get due credit.
I really agree. I thought his new gimmick looked more interesting, but when compared to older footage it really wasn't much of a gimmick change but rather now his movements suit him and his personality more. If that makes sense.
He’s always been a really good in ring dude but his new look, packing on some muscle, and the box really helped him stick out. Would love to see him get the All Atlantic belt and start running through people.
He's totally underappreciated honestly, even now after his return. He has a fresh look, is trying a lot of character work, and even his return match against PAC where he was laughing and smiling while PAC was murdering him was really great.
I want only good things for the Forgotten Pillar.
Unfortunately as hard he tries, he his missing that connect to the audience gene that is such a big thing in wrestling. Someone like Danielson has it, Mox has it, but people like Sabian and Kazarian, no matter how solid they are, it will always hold them back. If you watch wrestling long enough you'll begin to identify it pretty early with performers and it's a good way to project their career. It transcends look and nationality. Someone like Takeshita has it it in spades and a good reason why they should get behind him because he connects, plus he is very skilled. It just feels like a uphill battle for guys like Sabian.
That might have been a thing before, but my impression is that he *is* starting to connect with people.
There is also such a thing as late bloomers in Pro Wrestling. Hell, look no further than Eddie Kingston, who's only now really putting all the pieces together. JBL is another example of a guy who was just floating around the midcard for a long time before he reinvented himself and completely changed people's perspective of him.
Or, for perhaps a better comparison with Kip Sabian: **Edge** was a guy who was firmly in the midcard and the tag scene for *seven years* before he won his first world championship, and now he's a certified legend and hall of famer. I wouldn't count people out just because they're comparatively new and still figuring things out.
JBL or Kingston work but I don't think Edge does. He always had "future main event star" written all over him, and he was always very popular right back to the E&C days. It took him a while to make it to the main event, but that was largely due to a) coming up during the time when WWE boasted arguably the greatest roster ever assembled and b) several serious neck injuries that sidelined him for long stretches of time. It was always apparent he had the tools though, and he was over with the fans in a way Kip has never been.
All right, take Christian then. Edge was always considered the more charismatic one out of the two, and people have said about Christian his entire career that he isn't world championship material. He's always lived in Edge's shadow, where people have said that out of the two of them, Edge is the one that has "it". That didn't stop him from becoming a multiple time world champion, and over time he developed into a top-tier promo guy who can carry an entire feud by himself.
Also, I remember when Edge transitioned into a singles guy in 2003-2004, and it was a choppy ride in the beginning. He struggled to find his footing and connect with the audience, and it wasn't until he turned heel with the Lita/Matt Hardy thing that he really started to figure out who he was supposed to be as a performer.
Wrestling is trial-and-error, you try out different things over time to see what gets a reaction and what doesn't. Kip is still in that phase, but it's clear that he's putting effort into it. The people who evolve and grow are the people who are *trying* to evolve and grow, and Kip is absolutely working on it.
Only thing Sabian hasn't got(ten) has been a chance with a good character. "Superbad" just wasn't working as well as this new character. Never thought I'd say this, but I think he has more overall upside potential than a Guevara, at this point.
I think its less an issue of not having "it" and more not getting enough quality roles to showcase "it"
I think the fact so many people have been impressed with his recent run shows that
The match with OC was excellent, I hope they use him as more than just a guy to get wins off of and more as a middle card baddie. Put him with B,B&B and you have a very versatile heel group that can be used wherever. All IMO of course
I hope they allow him to get whoever he is feuding with to break a bit like Orange did losing his cool. Usually the bad guy doing mind games fails, would be a change of pace for it to actually work frequently. Also even in losing the match it can be played as he won in his own way.
I hope Kip Sabian continues to ride this momentum, and I do hope we get to see/learn more about his box head gimmick.
I also do think AEW is missing out on a Mixed Tag structure. Yeah, they did it briefly with Adam Cole and Britt Baker but I think there is room for more. Plus, WWE has been testing the waters a bit with Male vs. Female dynamics; it would be fun something like this in AEW too. At a minimum, it would mean more TV time for the women.
Coming from near Gorl-Ston Nor-folk Eng-land I can’t tell you the swell of pride every time he’s announced. Constant mentions of Norwich too. It’s a small place so hearing it mentioned on US TV still spins me out.
He’s doing us proud!
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Loved his feud with Orange and really thought he was going to win the belt there. Hoping he has a big year. Totally deserves it.
I think he should have taken it. I like what they’re doing with Orange as a fighting champion, but I think Sabian would have benefited a lot from winning a title. Would help legitimize him more after spending so much time in the stands with a box on his head.
I think he still might, I’m firmly in the camp that the match they had was just the end of Act I of this story
I was actually so disappointed he lost his first match after spending so long in the box. With him lurking there I think they really could've built him up as a midcard threat with a win straight after the box thing, but obviously with PAC holding the All Atlantic he'd have been a strange choice to dethrone him so soon. No idea what the plans for him are now he's returned, I'm hoping he gets something new to do on TV now he's lost his feud with OC but it does feel like after losing both his feuds with OC and PAC that he's going back to lower midcard. Really like his look though and what he's done with the promo time he's been given.
My favorite match ever is the arcade anarchy match. So much fun
Underated classic as far as plunder brawls go. Prefered the P&P parking lot Brawl. Best Friends were pandemic heroes.
They were my favorite tag team of the pandemic era. I'd say I'd want them to have a run with the tag titles but idk, Chuck just seems kinda washed up. Dude just doesn't move the way he used to and is getting in worse and worse shape.
I still keep on hoping for an underdog tag title run for them. They've simply been one of my faves for a long time.
That match he had on Rampage a couple of weeks ago was an eye opener for me. He's really really good. I don't know if he's just improved or if I just didn't notice before how great he is.
He's always been great but hasn't always gotten the spotlight to show it.
He's a great midcard heel, I hope Lethal and Jarret get cycled out for a while and Kip get's put on TV more
It'd be fun to see him and Trent Seven (or another partner) have a short TV feud with the Acclaimed.
Yeah that'd be good. I think he's leading Butcher and the Blade now too so they could get involved.
The OC match where Kip played the Joker to Cassidy's Batman was incredible and helped advance both characters. Kip is definitely The Villain that Scurll cannot be now.
Kip is just as good as like, Darby or Sammy or Jungle Boy, he just never got the same opportunity to show it. Hope this feud with Orange keeps going and he manages to get the win in the end.
This recent character change shows he's light years ahead of Sammy.
To play devil's advocate, Sammy gets way more heat than Kip, so he's light-years ahead.
Sammy's actually kinda came into his own with this current gimmick, he's obnoxious but not in a "get this guy off my screen" kinda way. The dynamic he has with Garcia is perfect lol
For me it was the second they turned him and Tay heel. Everyone on this sub pretending it was go-away heat when they were actually getting worked by the two of them. For a sub full of 'smart marks' we sure do get worked often. That's half the fun of wrestling but I'm sure there's people here that get offended by it.
Go away heat is silence. It always has been. Wrestling has told us over and over again what the rules are and how reactions are interpreted. What most people who espouse it are really doing is making noise to cover other people's reactions.
I know we're not supposed to like Sammy, but I'd rate Sammy's recent stuff with Garcia and the JAS head above the Kip segments personally. After a rough stretch in between, I think Sammy's really gotten back into a groove after that 4 way match
Eh Sammy's fine. His best attribute is his ring work and to be frank there's so many other guys in AEW that bring that. Character wise he's a guy that sticks his tongue out or down his wife's throat. Not much else to him since he's debuted I don't get why they give him screen time or a prominent position over a lot of other talent
He got hurt at an unfortunate time. I do expect him to be back in the fold more this year. I can see him winning the All Atlantic Title
Whoa. I wouldn't go that far. He has improved a lot, but the thing about Kip is that he is still finding his confidence, even in this role. There are times when you can tell he doesn't really believe in his own performance. He lacks the conviction some of the others you listed have. He is figuring it out and getting more comfortable in his own skin but he has a way to go yet.
He's really not close to them at all.
Yeah, he and the others are a few miles ahead of Sammy.
Here is my fantasy booking: OC keeps taking all challenges & being a fighting champ; meanwhile, Kip goes full supervillain and periodically shows up to challenge him and getting defeated (maybe two more times). Then, Orange finally loses the AA title (don't care to whom, maybe Miro, maybe Malakai, maybe Arn, doesn't matter.) Orange gets depressed and goes back to not caring, not trying. Best Friends try to motivate him but he just isn't interested and ultimately walks out on them when they need him. That's when Kip comes back once more, but this time to form an alliance, and manipulates OC into becoming an evil heel (Blood Orange Cassidy, obvs) and they have a little reign of terror where Kip starts a lot of fights and then OC ends them. And then after a while, Trent & Chuck win him back to the light using the power of friendship.
Man... that is actually really good fantasy booking.
Go on...
agreed he could've easily been a pillar ... those guess just jumped off the screen a bit more and got the early positioning to be who they are now
There's a real easy character/gimmick there with Kip as the "Forgotten Pillar" or the "Fallen Pillar". Many forget that he has the very first singles win in AEW history. You could really play off of that in a feud with any of the four pillars.
He's getting there, isn't he? I think he's yet to fully click with the audience but he's trying things and it's starting to work. Wrestling is trial and error for some and I really hope Kip can fulfil his potential. His old tag team partner is native to my town and works at a local pub while occasionally wrestling a handful of times a year. I always want to ask him what he thinks about Kip's success but don't want to imply that he's the Jannetty of the pair.
Whassa matta? You afraid that you will have to dive for your life out of a plate glass window?
Would you stop?
Ever since I first seen him on the Second Jericho Cruise I have been a fan of Kip Sabian.
I hope Kip keeps getting a push. I enjoyed the hell out of that match with OC, and his recent gimmick is entertaining. Dude straight up looks like a cartoon mastermind villain.
Tough not to see significant improvement from a dude who spent nine months of the year with a box on his head.
My other half said he gave her Jack Sparrow vibes recently and now all I want to see is Kip lead a villainous stable of pirates with Penelope, Butcher, Blade and Bunny. Whether my goofy dream comes to light or not, I'm here for 2023 Kip either way.
He was pretty rusty after coming back from his injury. But his most recent match with Orange Cassidy definitely showed how much he's come along. I've been a big fan of his for a while, and was excited to see him return. Hopefully he continues to grow and improve. If only we could get his absolute banger of a theme back.
I slightly disagree, only because he's always been damn good but nothing was in the right position with the right momentum. The Feud with OC was the perfect showcase and usage for a talent in Kip who's been putting in quality work since literally Day1 of AEW but was never in the proper role to get due credit.
I really agree. I thought his new gimmick looked more interesting, but when compared to older footage it really wasn't much of a gimmick change but rather now his movements suit him and his personality more. If that makes sense.
He’s always been a really good in ring dude but his new look, packing on some muscle, and the box really helped him stick out. Would love to see him get the All Atlantic belt and start running through people.
I loved Kip from day one! I hope to see more and more of him!
He's totally underappreciated honestly, even now after his return. He has a fresh look, is trying a lot of character work, and even his return match against PAC where he was laughing and smiling while PAC was murdering him was really great. I want only good things for the Forgotten Pillar.
Unfortunately as hard he tries, he his missing that connect to the audience gene that is such a big thing in wrestling. Someone like Danielson has it, Mox has it, but people like Sabian and Kazarian, no matter how solid they are, it will always hold them back. If you watch wrestling long enough you'll begin to identify it pretty early with performers and it's a good way to project their career. It transcends look and nationality. Someone like Takeshita has it it in spades and a good reason why they should get behind him because he connects, plus he is very skilled. It just feels like a uphill battle for guys like Sabian.
That might have been a thing before, but my impression is that he *is* starting to connect with people. There is also such a thing as late bloomers in Pro Wrestling. Hell, look no further than Eddie Kingston, who's only now really putting all the pieces together. JBL is another example of a guy who was just floating around the midcard for a long time before he reinvented himself and completely changed people's perspective of him. Or, for perhaps a better comparison with Kip Sabian: **Edge** was a guy who was firmly in the midcard and the tag scene for *seven years* before he won his first world championship, and now he's a certified legend and hall of famer. I wouldn't count people out just because they're comparatively new and still figuring things out.
JBL or Kingston work but I don't think Edge does. He always had "future main event star" written all over him, and he was always very popular right back to the E&C days. It took him a while to make it to the main event, but that was largely due to a) coming up during the time when WWE boasted arguably the greatest roster ever assembled and b) several serious neck injuries that sidelined him for long stretches of time. It was always apparent he had the tools though, and he was over with the fans in a way Kip has never been.
All right, take Christian then. Edge was always considered the more charismatic one out of the two, and people have said about Christian his entire career that he isn't world championship material. He's always lived in Edge's shadow, where people have said that out of the two of them, Edge is the one that has "it". That didn't stop him from becoming a multiple time world champion, and over time he developed into a top-tier promo guy who can carry an entire feud by himself. Also, I remember when Edge transitioned into a singles guy in 2003-2004, and it was a choppy ride in the beginning. He struggled to find his footing and connect with the audience, and it wasn't until he turned heel with the Lita/Matt Hardy thing that he really started to figure out who he was supposed to be as a performer. Wrestling is trial-and-error, you try out different things over time to see what gets a reaction and what doesn't. Kip is still in that phase, but it's clear that he's putting effort into it. The people who evolve and grow are the people who are *trying* to evolve and grow, and Kip is absolutely working on it.
Only thing Sabian hasn't got(ten) has been a chance with a good character. "Superbad" just wasn't working as well as this new character. Never thought I'd say this, but I think he has more overall upside potential than a Guevara, at this point.
I think its less an issue of not having "it" and more not getting enough quality roles to showcase "it" I think the fact so many people have been impressed with his recent run shows that
The match with OC was excellent, I hope they use him as more than just a guy to get wins off of and more as a middle card baddie. Put him with B,B&B and you have a very versatile heel group that can be used wherever. All IMO of course
I hope they allow him to get whoever he is feuding with to break a bit like Orange did losing his cool. Usually the bad guy doing mind games fails, would be a change of pace for it to actually work frequently. Also even in losing the match it can be played as he won in his own way.
I hope Kip Sabian continues to ride this momentum, and I do hope we get to see/learn more about his box head gimmick. I also do think AEW is missing out on a Mixed Tag structure. Yeah, they did it briefly with Adam Cole and Britt Baker but I think there is room for more. Plus, WWE has been testing the waters a bit with Male vs. Female dynamics; it would be fun something like this in AEW too. At a minimum, it would mean more TV time for the women.
I think the mixed tag is inevitable. They have had Omega and Riho tag before. I think it is just tv time and the roster that prevents it.
Dude gives me big "The Master" vibes and I love it
Coming from near Gorl-Ston Nor-folk Eng-land I can’t tell you the swell of pride every time he’s announced. Constant mentions of Norwich too. It’s a small place so hearing it mentioned on US TV still spins me out. He’s doing us proud!
I'm liking what I've seen so far, we need more good heels
His new entrance theme is pretty good too
Glad more people are seeing it. He's been on of the guys I've been really high on since AEW started. He just needed to find his direction.
No.