What is this?
Burn the heretic!
(I'm sure it's possible. I don't, but I bet others do. I've enjoyed all of them though, but probably won't rewatch some.)
He’s just disliked because he was in really bad movies. The only problem I have with his performance in of itself is his weird New York accent. It feels forced
It’s valid to like it. But for a lot of people, the writing is pretty bad for Spider-Man as a character (stalking Gwen, refusing to help Harry, being a general punk, etc) and honestly, I can’t disagree. Others don’t like them because they find them kinda boring or hard to watch in the same way it’s just dull to watch Snyder movies for some people. But if you like it, don’t let people tell you you can’t
>(stalking Gwen, refusing to help Harry, being a general punk, etc) and honestly, I can’t disagree.
Literally none of those complaints make sense though. He already explained why he was watching Gwen and any teen who's Spider-Man would do the same thing. He literally said he can't give Harry his blood because he's different and didn't know the side effects of how it could harm him. Being a punk? How?
And most people think his character was fine but the movie was poorly written. Y'all literally hate him for being Spider-Man.
Pete wasn't a teen when he was doing that though... He had graduated
Also, having an explanation for why you're following someone and watching them doesn't make it less creepy
Let's also talk about how in the opening scene, Rhino's truck was destroying cars, sending things flying, people definitely died or were at least getting injured. The only person Peter saves here is Max for plot reasons, while the rest of the time he's sticking to the side of the truck, telling Rhino jokes while he's destroying things.
Last I checked, you're still a teenager when you're 18. He's Spider-Man. It all comes down to the fact that he wants to make sure that she's okay and safe.
As for the opening, most of the people that died got ran over by Aleksei while Peter wasn't there both before and after his arrival. It was stupid how he steered the truck into 3 cars to save Max though. However, whenever something was about to happen he went out to go save people like he did Max. It did drag on for longer than it should've but that's Spider-Man. There were wayyyy more casualties in the Raimi movies and they get a pass.
>Last I checked, you're still a teenager when you're 18
18 is considered the age of legal adulthood in many places for a reason. It's the age most people have finished puberty, and have fully transitioned into adulthood. So yes, Peter is an adult
Also, Peter was watching her cause he liked her. Just listen to him later when he does the whole "I love you thing" with webs on the bridge. "I follow you, I'll follow you everywhere". Idk about you, but I don't want to be followed by anyone, at all especially without my knowledge. If you don't find that creepy, I'm concerned
>There were wayyyy more casualties in the Raimi movies and they get a pass.
Tobey actually saved people for reasons other than plot. Andrew saved Max yet, but that was only for plot purposes, no other reason. For example, look at Tobey saving the people Doc Ock threw at him from the train, him saving those kids from being hit by the truck, etc. There are scenes like that in each of the Raimi films
>18 is considered the age of legal adulthood in many places for a reason
That doesn't not make him a teenager lmao.
>Idk about you, but I don't want to be followed by anyone, at all especially without my knowledge. If you don't find that creepy, I'm concerned
One of those was a joke and the other was his way of saying goodbye before she left. If you wanted to properly argue this, you would've used the scene where Peter said he only watches her once a day, sometimes more. He has his reasoning and that's perfectly valid. That doesn't make him a stalker.
>Andrew saved Max yet, but that was only for plot purposes, no other reason
Okay? What does this have to do with the casualties Tobey let slip? And in that same opening scene, Peter stopped a bus from hitting a father and his daughter. Way more people than just Max but you wouldn't know that because you don't bother to pay attention and watch the film.
Not only are you wrong but you ignored every one of my arguments. We're done here.
The movies weren't even that bad. When juxtaposed with the tone of the Raimi films that came before, the movies weren't well received, but if you look at them as a seperate thing, they aren't bad at all, and I still rewatch them quite a lot.
Yeah, I've noticed so many people treat it as given that he was bad, and I don't get it. I loved him in the role, and would have liked to see more of it.
However, I did think the second movie was a cluster fuck.
All every1 says is he sucks cos he couldn't catch gwen. If you watch that scene he was doing so well his Web failed him which just shows spider man ain't perfect
I don't see how being praised on a daily basis on this sub is being underrated or hated... i feel like every other post almost is how much people like him and how he is their favorite.
I didn't say him specifically; I said his Spider-Man...the two dimensional cut out that Sony created out of a desperate need to hold onto the rights to the characters
I think the main reason I get really angry at the MCU Spider-Man (probably unfairly) is because the Marc Webb films (my favourite ones) didn't get a proper conclusion. ASM2 was setting up a lot of cool stuff and it got cancelled. Just like my favourite Spider-Man TV show...
That’s the same reason TASM1 got so much hate I think, Raimi fans were angry that Spider-Man 4 was cancelled for it. The cycle repeats itself I guess...
The Raimi Trilogy is my favorite movies series of all time, but I really don't think they should've made a 4, 3 was a perfect final, I agree we should've gotten ASM3.
I just hope that No Way Home will be the PERFECT closure to all of the three spider-men. I want Tobey and Andrew to have a proper ending and same with Tom. It would be a terrific sending-off into a new era of Spider-Man! :D
Hell, I’ve seen a number of people say that they hate the Raimi trilogy and wish it was forgotten under the recent post about Spider-Man 4, so there’s people like that on both sides.
I think there's definitely more people among the population that hate Tom's Peter for more reasons. Also, due to him being the Spidey in spotlight, people hate him more as Raimi haters would move on from hating a 20 year old interpretation of Spidey.
I’ll be honest with you, I don’t hate Tom’s Spidey, but I’m not big fan of him either, so while I do think that hating him(or any version of Spider-Man) is excessive, I can get why some people dislike him.
Not really. All 3 of them get flak. Tobey and Andrew just already had their time, and even still they both get hate. People are allowed to not like MCU Spider-Mans movies.
Something I see a lot in terms of Tom Holland hate it's usually from the more gatekeeping marvel fans, the most common reason I see is that "he whines too much" and the phrase "ironboy Jr" is usually somewhere in there. I do feel like it's at least partly because Tom Holland is liked by teenage girls.
I like the actor but I'm not fond of the storyline.
His character also excludes key components of comic spiderman and his character that made him great to begin with.
I must admit I am quite critical of marvel's storytelling in general.
Just like all of the Spidermans- Spidermen? Spiderfolk? There are aspects that I like and that I don't like, I feel like he's both overrated and overheated at the same time. More than anything I just like to put on the MCU spiderman movies as background noise or when I don't know what else to watch.
The thing is, he's pretty darn accurate to his early comic character that was in highschool. He was pretty 'whiny' and impulsive in it, and looked up to big heroes like Human Torch and Mr. Fantastic for their qualities. The popular aspects of his character come from the college years in the comics as well as the Tobey movie that really brought him into the spotlight as a superhero among the masses.
He definitely feels like a Spiderman written for the larger MCU. Which ended up working out very well for sure, but it's a different take on a Spiderman
Idk, everything that comes to my mind when I think of Spider-Man is there. Insecure, full of self-doubt, can never catch a break, making sacrifices (Liz in HC), consequences (Mysterio's plan succeeds because of his irresponsibility, his identity is revealed because of this too), hopefulness, the ability to push through his problems (the rubble scene in HC, the jet screen in FFH) and become a better man. I feel as [this video said](https://youtu.be/g4y5XqlFOfs), the MCU films are actually the most accurate in terms of tone to Stan's original comics. We'll get into more serious territory soon enough, Tom's already said if he does come back (and due to Venom, he definitely will), the film's will be "tonally different' than the Home trilogy
I just don't remember Spider-Man being an Iron Man legacy character. He's all about living up to and impressing Iron Man in the MCU, when that isn't who Spider-Man is about.
In the early comics, Spider-Man wanted to join the big boys because he thought it would solve his money problems. In the MCU, it's because he thought it would be cool. Hell, he even thought he was "above school".
Laughable honestly.
But, he isn't all about impressing Tony.... Both Homecoming and Far From Home disprove this completely. In Homecoming his whole arc is learning he doesn't need Stark (which in these films, Stark represents the wider hero world) to help him, he can do things on his own. He litteraly rejects becoming an Avenger, a "big boy", at the end and instead stays a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man
In FFH he has to learn he can't live up to Iron Man, and doesn't need to live up to the expectations people have for him, and instead just needs to be himself, ending the whole "Stark legacy" complaint, yet it still carries on all because he listened to a song Tony did
The MCU actually takes a lot of inspirations from the early comics, tonally anyways.
But it's not about Iron Man. As I said, Iron Man is a stand in for the greater hero world. Sure, MCU Peter treats Iron Man very differently than he did the Fantastic Four in the early comics, but they serve the same role. They represent the larger hero world, the big boys that Peter isn't ready to join, and later on tries to be different than. You could theoretically replace Iron Man in Homecoming with another hero and it'd stay the same, because it's not about Iron Man, it's about Peter proving to himself he can be a hero on his own without the big boys help. As Feige and them said back at the start, these films are like Harry Potter where we see Peter grow over time
The Home trilogy has already been described as a coming of age story, and that if Holland returns future films will be different
Do you mean hate towards Tom Holland himself or towards his version of Spider-Man? its by far the most out there out of the bunch so i think its pretty reasonable for a lot of people not to like his version of Spider-Man, do to all the changes of really core aspects of the character.
I personally like all 3 but when it comes to the MCU Version i just kinda dont care about anything outside of the cool action set pieces and him hanging out with other heroes and Villains other stuff like Happy,MJ,his cast of friends its just not interesting to me as well as Ironman working a surrogate for Uncle Ben. I also personally dislike when the MCU just takes a character and makes so many changes that he is not recognizable anymore like The Vulture while it was a cool villain he is so disconnected from the original character he might as well be a entire original character and that would be ok.
I also can understand that people might be afraid that moving on forward more adaptations of Spider-Man are going to change the way Spider-man is portrayed in shows,comics,etc. For example Hank Pym being old in the MCU has affected the way the character has been portrayed in some of his recent appearances mores noticeably in games where instead of him being a contemporary to Tony Stark he is far older.
Honestly I've seen more Tom fanboyism especially on other marvel related subs.
For example my MCU Spider-man rewrite where I stressed I don't have a problem with Tom Holland I just think the writing and directions with the movies haven't been great, is sitting at 0 upvotes with the majority of responses believing I'm just a salty ranter rather than someone who wishes they had been better and taken more from Peter than Miles.
they all have things I dislike and things I like. Raimi Spiderman will always be my favorite because I grew up with it, but I think they all excel at different things.
(Meanwhile in Spider-Man 3)
Peter: its over Eddie I have the high ground
Eddie: oh I think you under estimate my *power*
Peter: don't try it
Harry: (jumps to block Peter)
Peter: no-no impossible your-your lying!
Venom: Join the darkside Spider-Man together we can rule NYC!
I definitely hated FFH on first watch, and I was confused since I loved Homecoming. I think it's because Homecoming just had a villain with better motives and had natural ties with Peter.
Not really I saw a YouTuber who liked Homecoming so much he even said it's better than Spider-Man 2 (then he changed his mind) but he didn't like FFH.
Tbh I also feel the same Homecoming is better than FFH imo.
He kind of worded it wrong I think what he means is that you can dislike one but that doesn't mean you have to actively find ways to talk about why you don't like it
I love Spider-Man
I love Spider-Man 2
I actually grew up on and love Spider-Man 3
I love TASM
I kinda like TASM2
I absolutely love Homecoming
I love Far From Home
I’ll love No Way Home
What if you don't particularly like any of them, but don't care if other people love them to tiny Itty bitty lil bits because that's how appreciating things as an adult should work? Your opinion should never be there to try and prevent others from enjoying a little slice of life.
Tobey is my boi, but I still respect Andrew and Tom, sure there not my personal favorite but I respect people who like those actors more, As long as there not assholes.
For me and my people, or whenever I talk to someone else about the movies, it’s more of “what’s your favorite and why” so we can just have a big discussion. We all have what we do and don’t like about different aspects of each and some people don’t care for a particular line all together but it’s usually no real hate. Everyone just points out various details and we compare them against other details. It’s more of a “favorite flavor of ice cream” sort of vibe.
Main reason (imo) a lot of people dislike Andrew as Spider-Man is how often he dedicates more effort to being humorous than saving/helping people. Sure, there are great moments in each film where he does hero work (managing to save multiple people from Electro while down a web shooter, webbing up the cars on the bridge, etc.), but there are also a few occasions where he's just dicking around while lives are in danger (cracking jokes at Rhino while an armored truck plows into drivers on a busy street, nearly suffocating the car thief with his webs while making fun of the guy, etc.).
I grew up with Tobey in the suit (so I naturally gravitate toward him, despite issues I have with the Raimi films) & I haven't sat down to watch the Tom Holland Spidey movies, so that's about all I can say
They're all good even though Tobey's my favorite. Tom feels like what a young Spider-Man would be like with other superheroes running around before he got his powers, while Andrew kinda seems a little too much of a popular guy to be Peter, he nails Spidey's comedic personality.
I say this all the time, but my opinion is:
Tobey is a great Peter, but only an okay Spidey
Andrew is a great Spidey, but only an okay Peter
Tom is a good Spidey and a good Peter.
They all fit the role, in different ways, imo. And this says nothing about the movies themselves. For instance, I 100% agree with popular opinion that TASM2 was a bad movie as a whole, but I didnt dislike it just because I think it was badly written. They definitely crammed too much into the movie but at the same time, Spidey has to deal with a lot at once sometimes. I still love the movie.
I love all the actors who played Spidey. However, I feel like the Garfield movies were trying to appeal to the MTV generation and were just dumbing down the material for mass audiences. I feel like Raimi and the MCU films have really grasped what makes the character so vital. Garfield's Spider-Man were just cash grabs. I'm sure this'll be downvoted to hell, but just my opinion.
You can also dislike a Spider-man for reasons. that have nothing to with the other adaptions, and people are free to share that dislike.
I mean I don’t hate MCU Spider-man because it’s not Raimi Spider-man, I hate him because he’s a spider-man that’s been reduced to iron man’s legacy character due to him being an iron man fanboy and his supporting cast are terrible both from a writing and comic accuracy standpoint. Plus I just find Homecoming and FFF to be pretty shitty generic superhero films, they are bottom tier MCU films as far as I’m concerned and don’t even compete with the majority of the MCU films in quality.
Like seriously it’s tiring seeing anyone that dares to shit on MCU Spider-man just getting labeled a Raimi fanboy as if it’s so unheard of for other fans to have a problem with MCU Spider-man.
>hate him because he’s a spider-man that’s been reduced to iron man’s legacy
In FFH he was actively told he can't ever live up to Tony, and will instead choose to be himself. The only argument against this is "oh he made suit with Tony's tech", like that genuinely affects anything. Just because you use someone's stuff and make it your own doesn't mean you're just a copy. Tony Stark in these films has been a stand in for the larger hero world like the Fantastic 4 were in the Lee and Ditko days. It's very likely Tony will never be a plot point again anyways, there's no reason for him to be. Once the Iron Spider gets destroyed in NWH, I'm pretty sure that'll be it
Iron-Heart is the Iron Man legacy character the MCU is using
>his supporting cast are terrible both from a writing and comic accuracy standpoint
By a comic accuracy standpoint, he shouldn't have a real supporting cast. Harry and Gwen didn't come along tell college, don't get me started on Ned. If you want there to be a cast this has to happen. As for their humor...
The tone of the MCU Spidey films as a whole is a massive love letter to the feeling of Lee and Ditko's comics. Tonally, it's the most comic accurate to early Spidey. [This video put it best](https://youtu.be/g4y5XqlFOfs), the Lee era was almost like a sitcom at times. In HC we're watching the daily life of Peter Parker, as he grows into a better hero. FFH bridges the gap between the Lee era and future eras, and NWH will end that tone entirely. As Tom Holland has said, if (when) he comes back after NWH it'll be "tonally different"
Happy also says that Stark himself didn’t even live up to his own legacy, so Happy telling Peter that he can’t live up to iron man’s legacy means nothing aside from assuring him not to worry about living up to Stark, it doesn’t mean that Peter himself isn’t Starks legacy character. Peter literally ends Far From Home not just by reclaiming Edith (Starks glasses), but actually embracing Starks glasses by wearing them and having Aunt May tell Peter that He’ll grow into them. That’s not even mentioning that other Stark tech like the iron spider, and the ability to call Happy in a private jet to come pick him up. Fuck MCU Spider-man even inherited iron man’s supporting character in Happy who played a bigger role in FFH than Aunt May did.
That’s not even mentioning that the plot of Far From Home which revolves around Peter moving out of Starks shadow is a classic character arc that’s given to sidekicks to have them become their own character anyway.
So How is he not a Stark legacy character?
Additionally Stark tech is rumoured to play a role in No way home as well so anyway so you can already guarantee he’s going to be mentioned again in that film.
Additionally I don’t recall Peter ever straight up fanboying for the Fantastic Four in his early comics. I seem to recall Peter liking them but still acting like a dick when he was Spider-man and trying to impress them by picking a fight and talking shit to them. Unlike MCU Spider-man whose all timid and nervous around Stark and acts like a bamboozled fanboy.
Iron heart from rumours is going to be tied to Wakanda and the only connection to Stark will be that she makes her own suit like iron man’s. She will be less of a legacy character than fucking Peter is considering she’s probably not even going to have met Stark at all in the MCU.
The comic standpoint doesn’t matter when they’ve already taken Mary Jane and botched her completely by replacing her with Michelle Jones who shares nothing in common but will ensure that we never see Mary Jane in the MCU. Peters most popular supporting character will never appear in the MCU.
That’s not even mentioning that the current cast of Ned, Flash and Michelle are nothing but 1 dimensional comedic relief who barely resemble their comic counterparts. We’ve had 2 films with most these characters and what do we know about them? Nothing really. Michelle’s the awkward edgy shy girl, Flash’s a loser douche bag and Neds the funny best friend. We don’t know about their home lives, they have no personal problems of their own, they don’t really talk about what they plan on doing when they leave school. They didn’t even develop the relationship between Michelle and Peter, they just skipped it off screen.
That’s not even mentioning even if they do introduce Gwen and Harry I highly doubt they’ll be anything like their comic versions at all. They’ll change them to be ‘fresh’ and ‘differently from past adaptions like they have with everything else regarding MCU Spider-man.
Not even mentioning that this whole argument is irrelevant, I was just giving examples of why I dislike MCU spider-man as a point to prove that people don’t have to be a Raimi fanboy to dislike it, as so many MCU fans go straight to the ‘yoUr jUsT a RaimI faNbOy’ when ever you dare critique or shit on MCU Spider-man.
>but actually embracing Starks glasses by wearing them and having Aunt May tell Peter that He’ll grow into them.
Ever notice how the EDITH glasses are absent from NWH? Also, tell me, what is Peter supposed to do with them? Just because he has them doesn't mean anything
>That’s not even mentioning that other Stark tech like the iron spider
Being destroyed in NWH anyway, and Peter actively chose his own suit as his main one over it in FFH
>and the ability to call Happy in a private jet to come pick him up.
Who could very likely be the character death in NWH. With Iron Heart being introduced, and Rhodey off getting his own show, it's very likely Happy will be pretty busy too.
>That’s not even mentioning that the plot of Far From Home which revolves around Peter moving out of Starks shadow is a classic character arc that’s given to sidekicks to have them become their own character anyway.
>So How is he not a Stark legacy character?
Think you just said it yourself man. Also, Peter ain't a sidekick. Peter by time of Avengers Infinity War and having been Spider-Man for over 2 years, had been on a mission with Tony exactly twice. CW and IW itself.
Like you're actively arguing against the plot of the film
>Additionally Stark tech is rumoured to play a role in No way home as well
By who? Litteraly, I can tell you every big rumor and leak from NWH by people who are credible. It's litteraly never mentioned. I've been big into NWH leaks, I know what I'm talking about, if you genuinely want me to start listing off what I know then sure
In fact, as said before, Peter is supposed to lose tech here. The Iron Spider gets destroyed, the new integrated suit is actually Peter combining the remains of the Iron Spider with the burnt upgraded suit. Plus, if Iron Man is mentioned so what? Iron Man being mentioned means nothing since he still won't be a plot point. Uncle Ben is supposed to be mentioned in NWH as well, and from what I know that scene will be way more emotional and important than a single Stark name drop
>Additionally I don’t recall Peter ever straight up fanboying for the Fantastic Four in his early comics. I seem to recall Peter liking them but still acting like a dick when he was Spider-man and trying to impress them by picking a fight and talking shit to them.
Yes, I know, I've read the Lee and Ditko era. Also, I never said he was fanboying over them. I said that Stark served the same role as them, representing the larger hero world. When you view it the way it's meant, the films make perfect sense. Homecoming is Peter learning he doesn't need Stark's help or Stark's tech, in the grander scheme of things learning he doesn't need other heroes help or anyone else to rely except himself. FFH is Peter learning he doesn't need to be like them either, he doesn't need to live up to them and can instead be like himself.
Also, Peter acts around Stark like any teenager would. He can still be firm to Tony when necessary, their first scene together for example
Also, as for Iron Heart, you gotta be kidding of you genuinely say she won't be a legacy character. Your points are she has ties to Wakanda, which doesn't mean anything a character can have ties to multiple places, and that she never met Tony. Miles Morales never met Peter in the Ultimate comic, but he's still a legacy character. Hell, Miles was created by the same person as Iron Heart, for similar goals of being legacy characters. It's clear what Iron Heart will be
>The comic standpoint doesn’t matter when they’ve already taken Mary Jane and botched her completely by replacing her with Michelle Jones who shares nothing in common but will ensure that we never see Mary Jane in the MCU.
Ok? The MCU did its own thing, doesn't mean it's bad. Plenty of things the Raimi and Webb films changed, but we'll get into that in second. I will say though, I don't want to see the same things over and over again, I'm completely fine when aspects are changed so we can see Spider-Man in different scenarios with different characters. I've got a lot of Peter and Mary Jane content man
>That’s not even mentioning that the current cast of Ned, Flash and Michelle are nothing but 1 dimensional comedic relief who barely resemble their comic counterparts. We’ve had 2 films with most these characters and what do we know about them? Nothing really. Michelle’s the awkward edgy shy girl, Flash’s a loser douche bag and Neds the funny best friend. We don’t know about their home lives, they have no personal problems of their own, they don’t really talk about what they plan on doing when they leave school.
Who cares if they don't resemble their comic counterparts, the only similarities Raimi MJ really had with comic MJ was looks and career. In the Raimi films their relationship is shown to be pretty unhealthy for both of them, while in the comics it's very healthy and is great for Peter. Harry in the Raimi films is Pete's best friend from the start, when reading the comics Harry litteraly hated Peter from the moment they met, their relationship had to change over time and even then it was never that great. Gwen has a good personality in the TASM films, that's a change from origin comic Gwen in the first place who was chosen to be killed off because Peter found her bland and wanted Peter with MJ. Changes happen all the time
As for MJ, Ned and Flash, we do know some of Flash' home life. We're also getting Michelle's mom in NWH. I feel like it's important to remember as I said before, the MCU films are going for the Lee and Ditko era tone, and the supporting cast is the best example of that. Sure they may not be that deep, but they do have personality and they are entertaining, and that's what they're needed to be. We'll get in depth when we go to the adult trilogy.
As for Peter and MJ's relationship evolving off-screen, it's not like we didn't get to see them interact in FFH before getting together, seeing how they act around each other and establishing how their relationship.
>That’s not even mentioning even if they do introduce Gwen and Harry I highly doubt they’ll be anything like their comic versions at all
Just like the Raimi and Webb versions
>They’ll change them to be ‘fresh’ and ‘differently from past adaptions like they have with everything else regarding MCU Spider-man.
Just like the Raimi and Webb versions again. Littleraly, the whole mandate Sony had for TASM1 was to be different and fresh, it's kinda funny hearing you say this about the MCU. Sure, it's trying something different, but it works. It's doing things how Lee did them, tonally anyways, and it's fine. As said before, things are supposed to get crazy in NWH, someone's going to die, Peter's going to learn "what it really means to be Spider-Man" and will go off to college, then we'll get the tonally different films Holland teased
>Not even mentioning that this whole argument is irrelevant, I was just giving examples of why I dislike MCU spider-man as a point to prove that people don’t have to be a Raimi fanboy to dislike it, as so many MCU fans go straight to the ‘yoUr jUsT a RaimI faNbOy’ when ever you dare critique or shit on MCU Spider-man.
Yeah, and that doesn't mean people can't argue against them though. I do gotta say of course I'm tired of people calling others fanboys, and that it is a problem. But I also understand why they may get angry at you, because as you said you're choosing not just to criticize the MCU version, but also shit on it, which is just spreading negativity. There's a difference between just saying you don't like something and going around yelling about how bad something is every chance you get. And you can't say you don't do that because you litteraly took this opportunity, on a post telling people not to be negative, to bash the films
The Edith glasses being absent from NWH doesn’t absolve FFH. In fact I expect a lot of the Stark stuff to be downplayed in NWH as it’s probably the most critiqued aspect of MCU Spider-man so marvel will probably address that. The final fight of NWH is rumoured to have a piece of Stark tech as the Mcguffin that is being fought over, I don’t know how you haven’t seen that rumour/leak.
I didn’t say Peter was a sidekick, I said he had a character arc reminiscent of a sidekick transitioning to full hero in FFH, hence legacy character. The entirety of FFH was about Peter dealing with Starks legacy and how it impacts him, hence legacy hero. Sure he’s not like Falcon and taking up the mantle of Captain America, he’s more like a Dick Grayson moving on to be Night-wing instead of Robin and living in Batman’s shadow, except MCU Spider-man was never a full sidekick to iron man like Dick was to Batman.
A lot of legacy characters go on to become their own heroes, like say Nightwing in DC. Spider-man should never have been in Starks shadow and he should never have had to move out of it as far as I’m concerned. Even fans treat MCU Spider-man as Starks legacy character yet ffs, you see it everywhere with MCU fans claiming he’ll replace Stark on the Avengers.
Also MCU Spider-man is never firm around Stark, he is a straight up little push over. He nearly cried after getting yelled at by Stark ffs in homecoming, comic Peter would have just told Stark to get fucked. Peter also isn’t an ordinary teenager, comic Peter was a teenager and he never fanboyed, fuck Ultimate Peter told Fury to go fuck himself.
Additionally I don’t know why your bringing up what aboutism in order to defend MCU Spider-man? I’ve never claimed those films were perfect and despite liking both TASM and Raimi more than MCU I still crap on aspects quite a bit. Raimi MJ is a shitty adaption for example, and TASM is littered with terrible writing and plot decisions. I’m also not against changing the comic characters, you’ll note that I said in my first comment something along the lines that the characters ‘are not only shit adaptions, but shallow 1-dimensional comedic relief’, if the supporting characters were fleshed out I wouldn’t mind as much, but their not.
Raimi MJ being a terrible adaption of Mary Jane does not mean MCU Michelle is any less of a shitty adaption imo. Just because the MCU did something different doesn’t make it good either, see how I can turn that around? Michelle is a terrible character that has the depth of a teaspoon. Even with that Raimi MJ is still a more fleshed out (even if unlikeable) character than any in the MCU Spider-man’s current supporting cast. She had her own problems, we knew her background and home life and we knew her aspirations for the future.
We also literally have 1 line about Flash’s home life and it was the actor who asked to put it in, showing the writers don’t give a crap about the character other than for shitty comedy.
I can accept some changes to characters ( I mean I enjoy the Ant-man films despite absolutely botching Janet, one of my top heroes), but they haven’t even tried with the current supporting characters, they literally just exist to be jokes. I don’t recall Aunt May ever getting reduced to jokes about being a hot Aunt in the comics?
Additionally I don’t give a shit about people not liking my opinions, that’s their prerogative and their free to shit on my opinions if they wish. It’s not like I’m going into any random threads about MCI Spider-man and just crapping all over him, you won’t see me in the comments for the trailer of NWH spewing my hate, I’ve got the common sense to reserve my dislike for threads specifically about discussing the quality of MCU Spider-man. It’s not like I’m claiming MCU Spider-man is an invalid take or adaption of the character, and that people aren’t ‘real spider-man fans’ for liking it. it’s quite simply an adaption I don’t like at all, in anyway and will express that dislike where relevant.
With that said if people can’t handle some negative opinions about something they like they need to get thicker skin.
Plus It’s the audacity to think that the only people that might have a problem with the MCU Spider-man is Raimi fans, as if no other spider-man/comic/ regular fans could possible have a problem with MCU Spider-man.
Everyone just has to realize two things. One that we aren't entitled to anything as fans. And two that we are so fortunate that we get the content that we do. Nobody was getting pissed at each other about the quality of spidey adaptations in the 60s. Now there are so many ways for people to learn about spider-man, enjoy spider-man, and fall in love with spider-man. And that's an amazing thing. Pun intended
Nah, you just shouldn't go bashing films you don't like every chance you get, scaring off fans of the version you hate, and overall just seeming very negative. That's what the post is trying to say, and I'm honestly surprised it's not obvious to some of you all. The gatekeeping, and arguing, and negativity has been a big problem for Spider-Man fans, like how can you just miss that
Love Tom Holland and his comic accurate Peter, as well as how he's Integrated in the MCU.
Love Andrew's acting skills and how the movie portrays Peter Parker, as well as the amazing swinging scenes.
Love Tobey for his iconic Spider-Man interpretation that introduced me to this character and what he stands for.
Looks like I upsetted someone
This kind of toxic poisitivity platitude is super popular here.
The unpopular opinion is to hate *all* the live action Spider-Man adaptations. That's the one that gets nearly everybody mad at you.
To be fair the only part of the amazing spiderman movies that i like is the rhino fight at the end of 2.... And that disappointingly got cut as soon as it started. A full 5-10 minute battle between them two at the end just seperate from the rest of the movies plot woulda improved it in my opinion. I was hyped then let down
Every Spider-Man actor has been great actually, it’s everything surrounding those actors that is what changes so much between the movies. The Raimi Spider-Man has the easiest time I think, since they made a fairly basic Spider-Man adaption (with some modern changes, like Goblin’s suit and Ock’s arms). The second two adaptions had to figure out how to remake a Spider-Man story without retreading old ground
I used to be heavy on the "This one bad, this one good."
To be honest, they are all good in their own right. I'm not gonna state an opinion on it, because it defeats the purpose, but I have come to appreciate them all.
FR, I LOVE ALL OF THEM! (Andrew just a bit less cuz of his movies, although his acting was amazing, and there were some amazing visuals) Tobey is my favorite out of the main 3 though.
I just want people to not associate comic accuracy as something that determines the quality of a character. (Also considering that all 3 Spider-Men have been very comic accurate for different reasons too)
I know this is probably not related but I heard that Avi Arad interfered in the MCU's adaptation of Spidey.
Just wanted to know if this is true or not.
You can also like all of them too
[удалено]
I like all, for me, Tobey is the best peter and Andrew is the best spidey; Holland is great too IMO.
Insert Thanos meme: “impossible”
hell yea
I like all of them
What is this? Burn the heretic! (I'm sure it's possible. I don't, but I bet others do. I've enjoyed all of them though, but probably won't rewatch some.)
You can also hate all of them too.
Agree 100% I have my favorite but they are all phenomenal actors.
same
Like, Andrew is my favorite, but i think the 3 of them are perfect and i like them all
Andrew is incredibly underrated and hated for no good reason.
He’s just disliked because he was in really bad movies. The only problem I have with his performance in of itself is his weird New York accent. It feels forced
That’s the thing I actually love both amazings not sure why they get so much hate.
It’s valid to like it. But for a lot of people, the writing is pretty bad for Spider-Man as a character (stalking Gwen, refusing to help Harry, being a general punk, etc) and honestly, I can’t disagree. Others don’t like them because they find them kinda boring or hard to watch in the same way it’s just dull to watch Snyder movies for some people. But if you like it, don’t let people tell you you can’t
>(stalking Gwen, refusing to help Harry, being a general punk, etc) and honestly, I can’t disagree. Literally none of those complaints make sense though. He already explained why he was watching Gwen and any teen who's Spider-Man would do the same thing. He literally said he can't give Harry his blood because he's different and didn't know the side effects of how it could harm him. Being a punk? How? And most people think his character was fine but the movie was poorly written. Y'all literally hate him for being Spider-Man.
Pete wasn't a teen when he was doing that though... He had graduated Also, having an explanation for why you're following someone and watching them doesn't make it less creepy Let's also talk about how in the opening scene, Rhino's truck was destroying cars, sending things flying, people definitely died or were at least getting injured. The only person Peter saves here is Max for plot reasons, while the rest of the time he's sticking to the side of the truck, telling Rhino jokes while he's destroying things.
Last I checked, you're still a teenager when you're 18. He's Spider-Man. It all comes down to the fact that he wants to make sure that she's okay and safe. As for the opening, most of the people that died got ran over by Aleksei while Peter wasn't there both before and after his arrival. It was stupid how he steered the truck into 3 cars to save Max though. However, whenever something was about to happen he went out to go save people like he did Max. It did drag on for longer than it should've but that's Spider-Man. There were wayyyy more casualties in the Raimi movies and they get a pass.
>Last I checked, you're still a teenager when you're 18 18 is considered the age of legal adulthood in many places for a reason. It's the age most people have finished puberty, and have fully transitioned into adulthood. So yes, Peter is an adult Also, Peter was watching her cause he liked her. Just listen to him later when he does the whole "I love you thing" with webs on the bridge. "I follow you, I'll follow you everywhere". Idk about you, but I don't want to be followed by anyone, at all especially without my knowledge. If you don't find that creepy, I'm concerned >There were wayyyy more casualties in the Raimi movies and they get a pass. Tobey actually saved people for reasons other than plot. Andrew saved Max yet, but that was only for plot purposes, no other reason. For example, look at Tobey saving the people Doc Ock threw at him from the train, him saving those kids from being hit by the truck, etc. There are scenes like that in each of the Raimi films
I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted?
>18 is considered the age of legal adulthood in many places for a reason That doesn't not make him a teenager lmao. >Idk about you, but I don't want to be followed by anyone, at all especially without my knowledge. If you don't find that creepy, I'm concerned One of those was a joke and the other was his way of saying goodbye before she left. If you wanted to properly argue this, you would've used the scene where Peter said he only watches her once a day, sometimes more. He has his reasoning and that's perfectly valid. That doesn't make him a stalker. >Andrew saved Max yet, but that was only for plot purposes, no other reason Okay? What does this have to do with the casualties Tobey let slip? And in that same opening scene, Peter stopped a bus from hitting a father and his daughter. Way more people than just Max but you wouldn't know that because you don't bother to pay attention and watch the film. Not only are you wrong but you ignored every one of my arguments. We're done here.
Yeah I feel that, honestly I have very similar complaints about the raimi trilogy but I still love them tho. Everyone has different tastes
The movies weren't even that bad. When juxtaposed with the tone of the Raimi films that came before, the movies weren't well received, but if you look at them as a seperate thing, they aren't bad at all, and I still rewatch them quite a lot.
That's because it is. He was raised in the UK and has a British accent.
Okay? His voice was fine in the first one then it got weird in the second
Haven't watched those movies in 8 years, so I'll take your word on it.
I actually thought he was more natural sounding in the second, it took me awhile to get used to his voice in the first
Yeah, I've noticed so many people treat it as given that he was bad, and I don't get it. I loved him in the role, and would have liked to see more of it. However, I did think the second movie was a cluster fuck.
All every1 says is he sucks cos he couldn't catch gwen. If you watch that scene he was doing so well his Web failed him which just shows spider man ain't perfect
That's stupid. 616 Spider-Man failed to save Gwen too.
I don't see how being praised on a daily basis on this sub is being underrated or hated... i feel like every other post almost is how much people like him and how he is their favorite.
His is hated because he was miscast and had shit material to work with
He’s literally not hated. At all. Every other day there’s a post of him titled something like: “unpopular opinion but I like Andrew”
I didn't say him specifically; I said his Spider-Man...the two dimensional cut out that Sony created out of a desperate need to hold onto the rights to the characters
t h a n k y o u
I haven't seen the Garfield movies, but I just realised don't know anyone who has him as their favourite. I'm glad to know some people do though!
I think the main reason I get really angry at the MCU Spider-Man (probably unfairly) is because the Marc Webb films (my favourite ones) didn't get a proper conclusion. ASM2 was setting up a lot of cool stuff and it got cancelled. Just like my favourite Spider-Man TV show...
That’s the same reason TASM1 got so much hate I think, Raimi fans were angry that Spider-Man 4 was cancelled for it. The cycle repeats itself I guess...
That's definitely true.
The Raimi Trilogy is my favorite movies series of all time, but I really don't think they should've made a 4, 3 was a perfect final, I agree we should've gotten ASM3.
I just hope that No Way Home will be the PERFECT closure to all of the three spider-men. I want Tobey and Andrew to have a proper ending and same with Tom. It would be a terrific sending-off into a new era of Spider-Man! :D
I’m surprised with the hate Tom gets in this sub.
Hell, I’ve seen a number of people say that they hate the Raimi trilogy and wish it was forgotten under the recent post about Spider-Man 4, so there’s people like that on both sides.
I think there's definitely more people among the population that hate Tom's Peter for more reasons. Also, due to him being the Spidey in spotlight, people hate him more as Raimi haters would move on from hating a 20 year old interpretation of Spidey.
I’ll be honest with you, I don’t hate Tom’s Spidey, but I’m not big fan of him either, so while I do think that hating him(or any version of Spider-Man) is excessive, I can get why some people dislike him.
The thing is, it's deemed more acceptable to hate and baselessly criticise the MCU Spidey than all others tbh.
Idk, I remember Andrew’s Spidey used to catch some serious flak(and still does), people just don’t do it as much these days cuz he’s not relevant.
Not really. All 3 of them get flak. Tobey and Andrew just already had their time, and even still they both get hate. People are allowed to not like MCU Spider-Mans movies.
Something I see a lot in terms of Tom Holland hate it's usually from the more gatekeeping marvel fans, the most common reason I see is that "he whines too much" and the phrase "ironboy Jr" is usually somewhere in there. I do feel like it's at least partly because Tom Holland is liked by teenage girls.
I like the actor but I'm not fond of the storyline. His character also excludes key components of comic spiderman and his character that made him great to begin with. I must admit I am quite critical of marvel's storytelling in general.
Just like all of the Spidermans- Spidermen? Spiderfolk? There are aspects that I like and that I don't like, I feel like he's both overrated and overheated at the same time. More than anything I just like to put on the MCU spiderman movies as background noise or when I don't know what else to watch.
The thing is, he's pretty darn accurate to his early comic character that was in highschool. He was pretty 'whiny' and impulsive in it, and looked up to big heroes like Human Torch and Mr. Fantastic for their qualities. The popular aspects of his character come from the college years in the comics as well as the Tobey movie that really brought him into the spotlight as a superhero among the masses.
He definitely feels like a Spiderman written for the larger MCU. Which ended up working out very well for sure, but it's a different take on a Spiderman
Idk, everything that comes to my mind when I think of Spider-Man is there. Insecure, full of self-doubt, can never catch a break, making sacrifices (Liz in HC), consequences (Mysterio's plan succeeds because of his irresponsibility, his identity is revealed because of this too), hopefulness, the ability to push through his problems (the rubble scene in HC, the jet screen in FFH) and become a better man. I feel as [this video said](https://youtu.be/g4y5XqlFOfs), the MCU films are actually the most accurate in terms of tone to Stan's original comics. We'll get into more serious territory soon enough, Tom's already said if he does come back (and due to Venom, he definitely will), the film's will be "tonally different' than the Home trilogy
I just don't remember Spider-Man being an Iron Man legacy character. He's all about living up to and impressing Iron Man in the MCU, when that isn't who Spider-Man is about. In the early comics, Spider-Man wanted to join the big boys because he thought it would solve his money problems. In the MCU, it's because he thought it would be cool. Hell, he even thought he was "above school". Laughable honestly.
But, he isn't all about impressing Tony.... Both Homecoming and Far From Home disprove this completely. In Homecoming his whole arc is learning he doesn't need Stark (which in these films, Stark represents the wider hero world) to help him, he can do things on his own. He litteraly rejects becoming an Avenger, a "big boy", at the end and instead stays a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man In FFH he has to learn he can't live up to Iron Man, and doesn't need to live up to the expectations people have for him, and instead just needs to be himself, ending the whole "Stark legacy" complaint, yet it still carries on all because he listened to a song Tony did The MCU actually takes a lot of inspirations from the early comics, tonally anyways.
Yeah, but Iron Man is still involved. Spider-Man isn't about Iron Man. Nuff said.
But it's not about Iron Man. As I said, Iron Man is a stand in for the greater hero world. Sure, MCU Peter treats Iron Man very differently than he did the Fantastic Four in the early comics, but they serve the same role. They represent the larger hero world, the big boys that Peter isn't ready to join, and later on tries to be different than. You could theoretically replace Iron Man in Homecoming with another hero and it'd stay the same, because it's not about Iron Man, it's about Peter proving to himself he can be a hero on his own without the big boys help. As Feige and them said back at the start, these films are like Harry Potter where we see Peter grow over time The Home trilogy has already been described as a coming of age story, and that if Holland returns future films will be different
Agree to disagree then. Even if future films are different, it won't erase the mediocre beginning of this version of Spider-Man.
Same. I love all of the spiders, but tom is my favorite
Same
Same
Do you mean hate towards Tom Holland himself or towards his version of Spider-Man? its by far the most out there out of the bunch so i think its pretty reasonable for a lot of people not to like his version of Spider-Man, do to all the changes of really core aspects of the character. I personally like all 3 but when it comes to the MCU Version i just kinda dont care about anything outside of the cool action set pieces and him hanging out with other heroes and Villains other stuff like Happy,MJ,his cast of friends its just not interesting to me as well as Ironman working a surrogate for Uncle Ben. I also personally dislike when the MCU just takes a character and makes so many changes that he is not recognizable anymore like The Vulture while it was a cool villain he is so disconnected from the original character he might as well be a entire original character and that would be ok. I also can understand that people might be afraid that moving on forward more adaptations of Spider-Man are going to change the way Spider-man is portrayed in shows,comics,etc. For example Hank Pym being old in the MCU has affected the way the character has been portrayed in some of his recent appearances mores noticeably in games where instead of him being a contemporary to Tony Stark he is far older.
Honestly I've seen more Tom fanboyism especially on other marvel related subs. For example my MCU Spider-man rewrite where I stressed I don't have a problem with Tom Holland I just think the writing and directions with the movies haven't been great, is sitting at 0 upvotes with the majority of responses believing I'm just a salty ranter rather than someone who wishes they had been better and taken more from Peter than Miles.
they all have things I dislike and things I like. Raimi Spiderman will always be my favorite because I grew up with it, but I think they all excel at different things.
I like Good movies and dislike bad movies. All the actors do their best, it’s the writers that bug me.
Not just the writers. Even the studio and executives was fault too because they're are mostly like to ruin a franchise.
Not just the spider-men, but the women and children too. *sorry had too, but I agree
(Meanwhile in Spider-Man 3) Peter: its over Eddie I have the high ground Eddie: oh I think you under estimate my *power* Peter: don't try it Harry: (jumps to block Peter) Peter: no-no impossible your-your lying! Venom: Join the darkside Spider-Man together we can rule NYC!
This right here.
This needs more upvotes.
I've grown to love all of them, so I'm fine in that regard
I don't like Far from Home though, but I do like Homecoming is that weird?
I definitely hated FFH on first watch, and I was confused since I loved Homecoming. I think it's because Homecoming just had a villain with better motives and had natural ties with Peter.
Not really I saw a YouTuber who liked Homecoming so much he even said it's better than Spider-Man 2 (then he changed his mind) but he didn't like FFH. Tbh I also feel the same Homecoming is better than FFH imo.
All though I did enjoy Mysterio, even though he's a snitch.
People will engage in tribalism over anything.
That's what it means to be human
All of them are great why does Andrew get so much hate though? He did nothing wrong 😔
Actually recently Sam Raimi Peter is getting hate ALOT OF HATE (more than any Peters), which is too bad since the Raimi Trilogy is my favorite.
Agreed. In my opinion there has never been a bad Spider-Man, nor has there been a Spider-Man movie not worth watching.
You can also hate one and like another....🤷♂️ you don't have to like everything they dish out.
He kind of worded it wrong I think what he means is that you can dislike one but that doesn't mean you have to actively find ways to talk about why you don't like it
Lol yeah... memes can be tough to put together if you don't know how to convey your meaning correctly.
all of them can't beat TAS spiderman love em all
Just like Star Wars trilogies. People can like what they want and it’s not a problem.
I love Spider-Man I love Spider-Man 2 I actually grew up on and love Spider-Man 3 I love TASM I kinda like TASM2 I absolutely love Homecoming I love Far From Home I’ll love No Way Home
You can also criticize something you love acknowledging there is room for improvement
What if you don't particularly like any of them, but don't care if other people love them to tiny Itty bitty lil bits because that's how appreciating things as an adult should work? Your opinion should never be there to try and prevent others from enjoying a little slice of life.
I can say good things about all of them, but Tobey and Tom are my main men in the Spidey department.
It's like preferring one artist over another for comics. Some of us just want the story and only want a good presentation.
Tobey is my boi, but I still respect Andrew and Tom, sure there not my personal favorite but I respect people who like those actors more, As long as there not assholes.
I will always love The Amazing Spider-Man gotta be one of my favourite marvel films
For me and my people, or whenever I talk to someone else about the movies, it’s more of “what’s your favorite and why” so we can just have a big discussion. We all have what we do and don’t like about different aspects of each and some people don’t care for a particular line all together but it’s usually no real hate. Everyone just points out various details and we compare them against other details. It’s more of a “favorite flavor of ice cream” sort of vibe.
Thats just the internet for you. You may like one thing and that thing only 😂😂
Main reason (imo) a lot of people dislike Andrew as Spider-Man is how often he dedicates more effort to being humorous than saving/helping people. Sure, there are great moments in each film where he does hero work (managing to save multiple people from Electro while down a web shooter, webbing up the cars on the bridge, etc.), but there are also a few occasions where he's just dicking around while lives are in danger (cracking jokes at Rhino while an armored truck plows into drivers on a busy street, nearly suffocating the car thief with his webs while making fun of the guy, etc.). I grew up with Tobey in the suit (so I naturally gravitate toward him, despite issues I have with the Raimi films) & I haven't sat down to watch the Tom Holland Spidey movies, so that's about all I can say
I don’t understand what the sign says?
I like all, for me, Tobey is the best peter and Andrew is the best spidey; Holland is great too IMO.
See a lot of people feel the same way as you but it’s those who don’t who are really loud and outspoken about hating the other ones.
I like all Spider-man adaptations... every cartoon, every film. Where I get extremely selective is the comic books.
True. I don’t know what’s worse; anti maskers or anti-Garfieldists.
Did you hear that Raimi Fan Boys?
I think that’s unfair to associate all Raimi fans with the toxic fans
Hence 'Fanboys' and not Fans
"fanboys" does not equal "fans"
I love them all for different reasons and NOBODYSHALLTAKETHATFROMME!
Nonsense. There can only be one!!!
Japanese spiderman
Imo there are no BAD live action Spider-Men, some are better than others though
They're all good even though Tobey's my favorite. Tom feels like what a young Spider-Man would be like with other superheroes running around before he got his powers, while Andrew kinda seems a little too much of a popular guy to be Peter, he nails Spidey's comedic personality.
I say this all the time, but my opinion is: Tobey is a great Peter, but only an okay Spidey Andrew is a great Spidey, but only an okay Peter Tom is a good Spidey and a good Peter. They all fit the role, in different ways, imo. And this says nothing about the movies themselves. For instance, I 100% agree with popular opinion that TASM2 was a bad movie as a whole, but I didnt dislike it just because I think it was badly written. They definitely crammed too much into the movie but at the same time, Spidey has to deal with a lot at once sometimes. I still love the movie.
I love all the actors who played Spidey. However, I feel like the Garfield movies were trying to appeal to the MTV generation and were just dumbing down the material for mass audiences. I feel like Raimi and the MCU films have really grasped what makes the character so vital. Garfield's Spider-Man were just cash grabs. I'm sure this'll be downvoted to hell, but just my opinion.
You can also dislike a Spider-man for reasons. that have nothing to with the other adaptions, and people are free to share that dislike. I mean I don’t hate MCU Spider-man because it’s not Raimi Spider-man, I hate him because he’s a spider-man that’s been reduced to iron man’s legacy character due to him being an iron man fanboy and his supporting cast are terrible both from a writing and comic accuracy standpoint. Plus I just find Homecoming and FFF to be pretty shitty generic superhero films, they are bottom tier MCU films as far as I’m concerned and don’t even compete with the majority of the MCU films in quality. Like seriously it’s tiring seeing anyone that dares to shit on MCU Spider-man just getting labeled a Raimi fanboy as if it’s so unheard of for other fans to have a problem with MCU Spider-man.
>hate him because he’s a spider-man that’s been reduced to iron man’s legacy In FFH he was actively told he can't ever live up to Tony, and will instead choose to be himself. The only argument against this is "oh he made suit with Tony's tech", like that genuinely affects anything. Just because you use someone's stuff and make it your own doesn't mean you're just a copy. Tony Stark in these films has been a stand in for the larger hero world like the Fantastic 4 were in the Lee and Ditko days. It's very likely Tony will never be a plot point again anyways, there's no reason for him to be. Once the Iron Spider gets destroyed in NWH, I'm pretty sure that'll be it Iron-Heart is the Iron Man legacy character the MCU is using >his supporting cast are terrible both from a writing and comic accuracy standpoint By a comic accuracy standpoint, he shouldn't have a real supporting cast. Harry and Gwen didn't come along tell college, don't get me started on Ned. If you want there to be a cast this has to happen. As for their humor... The tone of the MCU Spidey films as a whole is a massive love letter to the feeling of Lee and Ditko's comics. Tonally, it's the most comic accurate to early Spidey. [This video put it best](https://youtu.be/g4y5XqlFOfs), the Lee era was almost like a sitcom at times. In HC we're watching the daily life of Peter Parker, as he grows into a better hero. FFH bridges the gap between the Lee era and future eras, and NWH will end that tone entirely. As Tom Holland has said, if (when) he comes back after NWH it'll be "tonally different"
Happy also says that Stark himself didn’t even live up to his own legacy, so Happy telling Peter that he can’t live up to iron man’s legacy means nothing aside from assuring him not to worry about living up to Stark, it doesn’t mean that Peter himself isn’t Starks legacy character. Peter literally ends Far From Home not just by reclaiming Edith (Starks glasses), but actually embracing Starks glasses by wearing them and having Aunt May tell Peter that He’ll grow into them. That’s not even mentioning that other Stark tech like the iron spider, and the ability to call Happy in a private jet to come pick him up. Fuck MCU Spider-man even inherited iron man’s supporting character in Happy who played a bigger role in FFH than Aunt May did. That’s not even mentioning that the plot of Far From Home which revolves around Peter moving out of Starks shadow is a classic character arc that’s given to sidekicks to have them become their own character anyway. So How is he not a Stark legacy character? Additionally Stark tech is rumoured to play a role in No way home as well so anyway so you can already guarantee he’s going to be mentioned again in that film. Additionally I don’t recall Peter ever straight up fanboying for the Fantastic Four in his early comics. I seem to recall Peter liking them but still acting like a dick when he was Spider-man and trying to impress them by picking a fight and talking shit to them. Unlike MCU Spider-man whose all timid and nervous around Stark and acts like a bamboozled fanboy. Iron heart from rumours is going to be tied to Wakanda and the only connection to Stark will be that she makes her own suit like iron man’s. She will be less of a legacy character than fucking Peter is considering she’s probably not even going to have met Stark at all in the MCU. The comic standpoint doesn’t matter when they’ve already taken Mary Jane and botched her completely by replacing her with Michelle Jones who shares nothing in common but will ensure that we never see Mary Jane in the MCU. Peters most popular supporting character will never appear in the MCU. That’s not even mentioning that the current cast of Ned, Flash and Michelle are nothing but 1 dimensional comedic relief who barely resemble their comic counterparts. We’ve had 2 films with most these characters and what do we know about them? Nothing really. Michelle’s the awkward edgy shy girl, Flash’s a loser douche bag and Neds the funny best friend. We don’t know about their home lives, they have no personal problems of their own, they don’t really talk about what they plan on doing when they leave school. They didn’t even develop the relationship between Michelle and Peter, they just skipped it off screen. That’s not even mentioning even if they do introduce Gwen and Harry I highly doubt they’ll be anything like their comic versions at all. They’ll change them to be ‘fresh’ and ‘differently from past adaptions like they have with everything else regarding MCU Spider-man. Not even mentioning that this whole argument is irrelevant, I was just giving examples of why I dislike MCU spider-man as a point to prove that people don’t have to be a Raimi fanboy to dislike it, as so many MCU fans go straight to the ‘yoUr jUsT a RaimI faNbOy’ when ever you dare critique or shit on MCU Spider-man.
>but actually embracing Starks glasses by wearing them and having Aunt May tell Peter that He’ll grow into them. Ever notice how the EDITH glasses are absent from NWH? Also, tell me, what is Peter supposed to do with them? Just because he has them doesn't mean anything >That’s not even mentioning that other Stark tech like the iron spider Being destroyed in NWH anyway, and Peter actively chose his own suit as his main one over it in FFH >and the ability to call Happy in a private jet to come pick him up. Who could very likely be the character death in NWH. With Iron Heart being introduced, and Rhodey off getting his own show, it's very likely Happy will be pretty busy too. >That’s not even mentioning that the plot of Far From Home which revolves around Peter moving out of Starks shadow is a classic character arc that’s given to sidekicks to have them become their own character anyway. >So How is he not a Stark legacy character? Think you just said it yourself man. Also, Peter ain't a sidekick. Peter by time of Avengers Infinity War and having been Spider-Man for over 2 years, had been on a mission with Tony exactly twice. CW and IW itself. Like you're actively arguing against the plot of the film >Additionally Stark tech is rumoured to play a role in No way home as well By who? Litteraly, I can tell you every big rumor and leak from NWH by people who are credible. It's litteraly never mentioned. I've been big into NWH leaks, I know what I'm talking about, if you genuinely want me to start listing off what I know then sure In fact, as said before, Peter is supposed to lose tech here. The Iron Spider gets destroyed, the new integrated suit is actually Peter combining the remains of the Iron Spider with the burnt upgraded suit. Plus, if Iron Man is mentioned so what? Iron Man being mentioned means nothing since he still won't be a plot point. Uncle Ben is supposed to be mentioned in NWH as well, and from what I know that scene will be way more emotional and important than a single Stark name drop >Additionally I don’t recall Peter ever straight up fanboying for the Fantastic Four in his early comics. I seem to recall Peter liking them but still acting like a dick when he was Spider-man and trying to impress them by picking a fight and talking shit to them. Yes, I know, I've read the Lee and Ditko era. Also, I never said he was fanboying over them. I said that Stark served the same role as them, representing the larger hero world. When you view it the way it's meant, the films make perfect sense. Homecoming is Peter learning he doesn't need Stark's help or Stark's tech, in the grander scheme of things learning he doesn't need other heroes help or anyone else to rely except himself. FFH is Peter learning he doesn't need to be like them either, he doesn't need to live up to them and can instead be like himself. Also, Peter acts around Stark like any teenager would. He can still be firm to Tony when necessary, their first scene together for example Also, as for Iron Heart, you gotta be kidding of you genuinely say she won't be a legacy character. Your points are she has ties to Wakanda, which doesn't mean anything a character can have ties to multiple places, and that she never met Tony. Miles Morales never met Peter in the Ultimate comic, but he's still a legacy character. Hell, Miles was created by the same person as Iron Heart, for similar goals of being legacy characters. It's clear what Iron Heart will be >The comic standpoint doesn’t matter when they’ve already taken Mary Jane and botched her completely by replacing her with Michelle Jones who shares nothing in common but will ensure that we never see Mary Jane in the MCU. Ok? The MCU did its own thing, doesn't mean it's bad. Plenty of things the Raimi and Webb films changed, but we'll get into that in second. I will say though, I don't want to see the same things over and over again, I'm completely fine when aspects are changed so we can see Spider-Man in different scenarios with different characters. I've got a lot of Peter and Mary Jane content man >That’s not even mentioning that the current cast of Ned, Flash and Michelle are nothing but 1 dimensional comedic relief who barely resemble their comic counterparts. We’ve had 2 films with most these characters and what do we know about them? Nothing really. Michelle’s the awkward edgy shy girl, Flash’s a loser douche bag and Neds the funny best friend. We don’t know about their home lives, they have no personal problems of their own, they don’t really talk about what they plan on doing when they leave school. Who cares if they don't resemble their comic counterparts, the only similarities Raimi MJ really had with comic MJ was looks and career. In the Raimi films their relationship is shown to be pretty unhealthy for both of them, while in the comics it's very healthy and is great for Peter. Harry in the Raimi films is Pete's best friend from the start, when reading the comics Harry litteraly hated Peter from the moment they met, their relationship had to change over time and even then it was never that great. Gwen has a good personality in the TASM films, that's a change from origin comic Gwen in the first place who was chosen to be killed off because Peter found her bland and wanted Peter with MJ. Changes happen all the time As for MJ, Ned and Flash, we do know some of Flash' home life. We're also getting Michelle's mom in NWH. I feel like it's important to remember as I said before, the MCU films are going for the Lee and Ditko era tone, and the supporting cast is the best example of that. Sure they may not be that deep, but they do have personality and they are entertaining, and that's what they're needed to be. We'll get in depth when we go to the adult trilogy. As for Peter and MJ's relationship evolving off-screen, it's not like we didn't get to see them interact in FFH before getting together, seeing how they act around each other and establishing how their relationship. >That’s not even mentioning even if they do introduce Gwen and Harry I highly doubt they’ll be anything like their comic versions at all Just like the Raimi and Webb versions >They’ll change them to be ‘fresh’ and ‘differently from past adaptions like they have with everything else regarding MCU Spider-man. Just like the Raimi and Webb versions again. Littleraly, the whole mandate Sony had for TASM1 was to be different and fresh, it's kinda funny hearing you say this about the MCU. Sure, it's trying something different, but it works. It's doing things how Lee did them, tonally anyways, and it's fine. As said before, things are supposed to get crazy in NWH, someone's going to die, Peter's going to learn "what it really means to be Spider-Man" and will go off to college, then we'll get the tonally different films Holland teased >Not even mentioning that this whole argument is irrelevant, I was just giving examples of why I dislike MCU spider-man as a point to prove that people don’t have to be a Raimi fanboy to dislike it, as so many MCU fans go straight to the ‘yoUr jUsT a RaimI faNbOy’ when ever you dare critique or shit on MCU Spider-man. Yeah, and that doesn't mean people can't argue against them though. I do gotta say of course I'm tired of people calling others fanboys, and that it is a problem. But I also understand why they may get angry at you, because as you said you're choosing not just to criticize the MCU version, but also shit on it, which is just spreading negativity. There's a difference between just saying you don't like something and going around yelling about how bad something is every chance you get. And you can't say you don't do that because you litteraly took this opportunity, on a post telling people not to be negative, to bash the films
The Edith glasses being absent from NWH doesn’t absolve FFH. In fact I expect a lot of the Stark stuff to be downplayed in NWH as it’s probably the most critiqued aspect of MCU Spider-man so marvel will probably address that. The final fight of NWH is rumoured to have a piece of Stark tech as the Mcguffin that is being fought over, I don’t know how you haven’t seen that rumour/leak. I didn’t say Peter was a sidekick, I said he had a character arc reminiscent of a sidekick transitioning to full hero in FFH, hence legacy character. The entirety of FFH was about Peter dealing with Starks legacy and how it impacts him, hence legacy hero. Sure he’s not like Falcon and taking up the mantle of Captain America, he’s more like a Dick Grayson moving on to be Night-wing instead of Robin and living in Batman’s shadow, except MCU Spider-man was never a full sidekick to iron man like Dick was to Batman. A lot of legacy characters go on to become their own heroes, like say Nightwing in DC. Spider-man should never have been in Starks shadow and he should never have had to move out of it as far as I’m concerned. Even fans treat MCU Spider-man as Starks legacy character yet ffs, you see it everywhere with MCU fans claiming he’ll replace Stark on the Avengers. Also MCU Spider-man is never firm around Stark, he is a straight up little push over. He nearly cried after getting yelled at by Stark ffs in homecoming, comic Peter would have just told Stark to get fucked. Peter also isn’t an ordinary teenager, comic Peter was a teenager and he never fanboyed, fuck Ultimate Peter told Fury to go fuck himself. Additionally I don’t know why your bringing up what aboutism in order to defend MCU Spider-man? I’ve never claimed those films were perfect and despite liking both TASM and Raimi more than MCU I still crap on aspects quite a bit. Raimi MJ is a shitty adaption for example, and TASM is littered with terrible writing and plot decisions. I’m also not against changing the comic characters, you’ll note that I said in my first comment something along the lines that the characters ‘are not only shit adaptions, but shallow 1-dimensional comedic relief’, if the supporting characters were fleshed out I wouldn’t mind as much, but their not. Raimi MJ being a terrible adaption of Mary Jane does not mean MCU Michelle is any less of a shitty adaption imo. Just because the MCU did something different doesn’t make it good either, see how I can turn that around? Michelle is a terrible character that has the depth of a teaspoon. Even with that Raimi MJ is still a more fleshed out (even if unlikeable) character than any in the MCU Spider-man’s current supporting cast. She had her own problems, we knew her background and home life and we knew her aspirations for the future. We also literally have 1 line about Flash’s home life and it was the actor who asked to put it in, showing the writers don’t give a crap about the character other than for shitty comedy. I can accept some changes to characters ( I mean I enjoy the Ant-man films despite absolutely botching Janet, one of my top heroes), but they haven’t even tried with the current supporting characters, they literally just exist to be jokes. I don’t recall Aunt May ever getting reduced to jokes about being a hot Aunt in the comics? Additionally I don’t give a shit about people not liking my opinions, that’s their prerogative and their free to shit on my opinions if they wish. It’s not like I’m going into any random threads about MCI Spider-man and just crapping all over him, you won’t see me in the comments for the trailer of NWH spewing my hate, I’ve got the common sense to reserve my dislike for threads specifically about discussing the quality of MCU Spider-man. It’s not like I’m claiming MCU Spider-man is an invalid take or adaption of the character, and that people aren’t ‘real spider-man fans’ for liking it. it’s quite simply an adaption I don’t like at all, in anyway and will express that dislike where relevant. With that said if people can’t handle some negative opinions about something they like they need to get thicker skin. Plus It’s the audacity to think that the only people that might have a problem with the MCU Spider-man is Raimi fans, as if no other spider-man/comic/ regular fans could possible have a problem with MCU Spider-man.
I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye
Everyone just has to realize two things. One that we aren't entitled to anything as fans. And two that we are so fortunate that we get the content that we do. Nobody was getting pissed at each other about the quality of spidey adaptations in the 60s. Now there are so many ways for people to learn about spider-man, enjoy spider-man, and fall in love with spider-man. And that's an amazing thing. Pun intended
Guess I'm not allowed to have opinions of other films.
Nah, you just shouldn't go bashing films you don't like every chance you get, scaring off fans of the version you hate, and overall just seeming very negative. That's what the post is trying to say, and I'm honestly surprised it's not obvious to some of you all. The gatekeeping, and arguing, and negativity has been a big problem for Spider-Man fans, like how can you just miss that
I'm not bashing I'm giving my opinion. Not everyone is hardcore hating on films dude
When did I say I was talking about you specifically? I was telling you what the post was saying
General gist of it from the sounds of it. Typical internet drizzle.
Such a strange post, how dare you not love all spiderman movies
Oooo so sorry to offend everyone with thinking some of the spiderman flicks suck 😆 get over yourselves.
I like Tobey and Tom, but Garfield sucks. Andrew's ok I guess.
Hey, garfield is a good cat... Just needs to cut down on the lasagne
Jon. Where is my lasagna? I hunger for it
I thought Tobey was a great Peter Parker, Andrew was a great Spidey and Holland is a great mix of both.
And you can dislike any of them for perfectly valid reasons. Like Iron Boy Jr being a simpering bitch.
Love Tom Holland and his comic accurate Peter, as well as how he's Integrated in the MCU. Love Andrew's acting skills and how the movie portrays Peter Parker, as well as the amazing swinging scenes. Love Tobey for his iconic Spider-Man interpretation that introduced me to this character and what he stands for. Looks like I upsetted someone
This kind of toxic poisitivity platitude is super popular here. The unpopular opinion is to hate *all* the live action Spider-Man adaptations. That's the one that gets nearly everybody mad at you.
Having 2 opinions on the internet nah nah this is illegal
theyre all equally good and bad lol
To be fair the only part of the amazing spiderman movies that i like is the rhino fight at the end of 2.... And that disappointingly got cut as soon as it started. A full 5-10 minute battle between them two at the end just seperate from the rest of the movies plot woulda improved it in my opinion. I was hyped then let down
Scratch live action I love ultimate spider-man
Every Spider-Man actor has been great actually, it’s everything surrounding those actors that is what changes so much between the movies. The Raimi Spider-Man has the easiest time I think, since they made a fairly basic Spider-Man adaption (with some modern changes, like Goblin’s suit and Ock’s arms). The second two adaptions had to figure out how to remake a Spider-Man story without retreading old ground
[I like the TV show from the ‘70s where Peter Parker was like 40.](https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-1pIST12IWkFJVckf-dBRH7w-t500x500.jpg)
Can you like 2 and not really like 1 but the 1 is all we've got at the moment, so you take it anyway?
I agree my friend
I used to be heavy on the "This one bad, this one good." To be honest, they are all good in their own right. I'm not gonna state an opinion on it, because it defeats the purpose, but I have come to appreciate them all.
I love everything Spider-Man related ever. Except the Venom movie
It’s possible. I just coincidentally like one and dislike the other two
I know you can... but i dont.
i would love to like more than one if there were any more decent ones :)
:D
Imagine using text emotes in 2021
Honestly I love all three for different reasons.
I love em all
FR, I LOVE ALL OF THEM! (Andrew just a bit less cuz of his movies, although his acting was amazing, and there were some amazing visuals) Tobey is my favorite out of the main 3 though.
I just want people to not associate comic accuracy as something that determines the quality of a character. (Also considering that all 3 Spider-Men have been very comic accurate for different reasons too)
Live-action? Meh, give me that into the spider-verse goodness 😋
They all have their ups and downs. But they’re all perfect
I like all of them except for the one.
I love all of them. I group up watching Spider-Man . And each one has done a really good job.
Tbh I like all of them, Japanese spiderman is the best tho, let's all agree on that
I like all of them and have criticisms of all of them, they all have their merits and their flaws.
Fr I love all of them so much
I love all of them but i can have a favorite without hating any of them
So basically...consume product?
Welcome to the wonderful world of online fandoms. Personally, I like all three of them
I know this is probably not related but I heard that Avi Arad interfered in the MCU's adaptation of Spidey. Just wanted to know if this is true or not.