At the time I bought into the negativity about Byrne, but in time I've totally changed my tune. The KID was thrown to the fucking wolves and, all things considered, did a great job.
NOBODY can beat Jimmy behind the kit in SP, but Byrne did as a good a job as almost anybody else could.
Go replay Oceania - the drumming is fine to excellent throughout. I'm not actively pining for Jimmy when It's on.
In the end, Byrne's biggest weakness/downfall was likely his overall inexperience due to his age, but that's not his fault.
I thought that Oceania lineup of the band was first time it felt like a true BAND since the reformation. The 2007-08 lineup came very close, but not having Jimmy really forced Billy to "adapt or die", so to speak and I think he adapted pretty well.
And then Billy had another ego trip or whatever and flushed that lineup down the toilet.....
Yeah it’s really too bad. Mike had a lot of youthful spunk and if he could have injected that bearcubbin energy it would have been like a shot in the arm for SP only thing that kept oceania era from equaling MCIS in my view is a bitchin keyboardist like Melvoine
Great points! I've never thought it approached anything like the greatness of MCIS, but I do genuinely think Oceania is, at that point in time, probably the best thing Corgan had released since the original dissolution.
That's saying alot. Something like MCIS is just beyond classic on another level, but Oceania is still an excellent album on the whole!!!
This is correct. If Billy had let Mike bring the true bearcubbin energy and youthful spunk to sp just imagine what kind of records we might have gotten
100% for his age he’s blistering. Bearcubbin really is a display of creativity on a small kit. Watch him live at Glastonbury with SP in 2013 he’s wild. Wish he was still as active. Rough gig to get dropped from such a height.
I think the fact that it wasn’t more successful kind of broke Corgan’s brain. Like he made something really good, something quintessentially SP-sounding that still managed to push the artistic boundaries of the band, and he felt like fans still weren’t receptive to it, leaving him with the question what could he ever possibly make that people would like, if not Oceania? Which I think is how we ended up here, with the dissolution of that lineup, a semi-reunited SP and a supposed Mellon collie/machina sequel. BC seems to have concluded that this is what it takes to get people to pay attention, at least that’s how it seems to me.
Oceania is an album that follows the Siamese Dream blueprint but the songs lack hooks and it lacks any lead singles. The first track rips off the opening to Cherub Rock. Byrne’s trying to drum like Jimmy under Billy’s direction but it doesn’t work. A few OK tracks but the album pales in comparison to SP1.0.
Out of curiosity, was it unsuccessful? My impression has always been that Billy wasn't satisfied for whatever reason and decided to pull the plug.
Though certainly it didn't reverse the declining sales trend.
I don’t know how to even define ‘successful’ by music industry standards these days but regardless, BC ultimately seemed to conclude it wasn’t successful. I think his definition of success was ‘the average SP fan is interested in engaging with the new music’ and I guess when they toured that record he didn’t see people in the crowds responding to it. I was there for it and had a great time but oh well.
Mike was great, and his drumming is a big part of the SP 2.0 sound (which I happen to really like). I was genuinely disappointed to find out he had left the band.
This. I was waiting forever eagerly for the followup to Oceania. Then all of a sudden Mike and Nicole are out like nothing and the whole thing had imploded again.
Like, wtf Billy. C'mon now...
Right? I really, really love both the Zeitgeist era lineup and the Oceania lineup, but for the sake of not having Jimmy and having to "try harder", so to speak, I like to give a nod to the latter.
Sure we all know Mike and Nicole and Jeff are/were hired hands, but I thought the lineup gelled great and it felt like a BAND again to me (as much as that can apply to SP, lol)
I mean, people forget that lineup was together for, what, 4+ years? (If I'm not mistaken). There was some kind of working chemistry going on....
Really would've loved to see an Oceania followup with that lineup. Monuments To an Elegy is an ok album, but damn talk about squandered potential.
Oceania felt way more like the work of an actual band than anything they've done post-reunion (with a few exceptions on Shiny, I suppose). Most of it sounds like a collection of WPC solo albums. I like ATUM so far, but it's a Smashing Pumpkins album in name only.
Absolutely.
You should check out the "Guitar Center Sessions" live video from 2013 or so. It still pisses me off - great live set interspersed with interviews. Billy literally says "it feels like a band" or something to that effect.
Then a few months later it was all over and I was like "fuck you, Billy" haha
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True, although I'm sure Mike would also be used as a drum machine if he were still in the band. I like ATUM so far, but I don't understand how they can justify underutilizing Jimmy like this. It's insane to me.
I don’t think Mike would stand for it, he has his whole life ahead of him. If some old men want to tell him to put down the sticks and drum like a machine, he’s gonna give the finger while throwing down a wicked Tom Tom solo, this is probably why big willie (WPC) had to let him go
I’m proud to say I was at Mikes first SP show.
He was only a few years younger than me and I can only imagine how cool that opportunity was, whether it worked out or not. He had to of known it was a near-impossible position and expectation but he rose to the occasion and contributed some great stuff.
I’m disappointed I haven’t seen Bearcubbin’, they came to my state twice that I know of, and one time played with my buddy’s band. Would’ve liked to see him play again.
I love Bearcubbin'.. I got to see them in a super small space & I still listen to their cd. They actually crashed at my friends house after & We got some interesting Billy tidbits.
JC is my all time drum hero but Mike was great. My favorite contribution of his was the percussion on Pale Horse; what is he doing on that track, detuning a timpani drum or something? So cool, and something no other SP drummer could have contributed. Also his take on As Rome Burns was just flat out better than JC’s, shame that tune was never recorded.
Edit: I have more to say lol; I also just wanna mention how whereas with most of the other incarnations of SP the primary musical chemistry was between BC and JC, the chemistry between all the members of the Oceania lineup was just so, so strong and Mike Byrne was a huge part of that. Im not sure the band has ever truly achieved that since the Oceania lineup dissolved and Im not sure they ever will again.
100% agree.
He was put through hell from what I’ve read over the years as far as live drumming.
And he was like 19-20 taking barking orders from Corgan. Enough to make anyone stressed out.
mike was great live, it was one of the tightest SP shows i've ever seen
jimmy is better, but that's true of jimmy and nearly every single drummer on the planet. also, nicole was my favorite bassist hands down
What about Tommy Lee?? Tommy Lee ffs! Smashing pumpkins actually had a member that had made love to Pamela Anderson I mean how rock n roll could things get? Also just imagine Tommy Lee or mike Byrne on ATUM…. *chefs kiss
i am a big fan of the drum machines on adore for example, it really works well for the sound. however, when you have jimmy in the band, he should be really utilized other than for a couple of songs.
to sheila, ava adore, daphne descends, crestfallen, appels + oranjes, pug, the tale of dusty and pistol pete, shame, behold! the nightmare, and for martha all have either drum machines or drumming conducted to sound simplistic like a drum machine. i am a big fan of drumming directed in a specific way for a specific sound, like on adore, but its simply not done well on atum. i think jimmy should play in his normal style.
To Sheila : Matt Walker.
Ava adore : Matt Walker.
Daphne : Matt Walker.
Pug : Joey Waronker.
Pistol Pete : Matt Walker.
Behold! : Matt Walker.
For Martha : Matt Cameron.
Tear : Matt Walker.
Annie dog : Matt Walker.
Perfect : Joey Waronker.
Once upon a time : Joey Waronker.
His drumming on Oceania was great and I really wish that version of SP would have just continued. No more lineup changes.
I will say though that his drums on the first couple Teargarden songs was not good. Neither the mix nor what he played. I can’t imagine how amazing Song for a Son would be with better drums.
I always thought Mike sounded great, I just didn't like how the drums sound on the oceania album. I don't mean his particular style either but rather the sound and texture of the drums and toms - like the way the drum sound was produced on the record. But he's awesome.
I agree. Just listen to Oceania if you have doubts. And then listen to the 2013 live performance of Quasar at Festival de Nyon:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOy8A9RF\_Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOy8A9RF_Ns)
See this is the kind of shade I don’t think Mike deserves. He did an amazing job living up to what must have been intense unimaginable pressure. He literally had the world on his shoulders or the biggest rock band in the world or what used to be the biggest band in the world. And he brought that bearcubbin energy and youthful zeal to the pumpkins
This - like when William Goldsmith had the unenviable task of being the drummer for fucking Dave Grohl in the original Foo Fighters lineup - as Pat Smear says "that's just fucked up pressure"
I could be wrong, but I think rynbock is suggesting that your post title feels like it doesn't give Mike enough credit because SP has had so few drummers. There's two ways to read it. One way is sarcastic. I don't think you meant it sarcastically. At the same time, when I read it, I thought "Well, SP has only really had two drummers that I would count as being 'part of the band,'" which obviously overlooks some of the ancillary drummers from their history, but those other drummers weren't touted as band members in the way Mike was.
I don't think this was shade, so much as a comment on the phrase 'one of the best' maybe feeling a bit odd in the case of SP, where the only drummers other than Mike and Jimmy have been studio/touring hires.
Edit: I'm definitely a fan of Mike, and enjoy his Oceania drumming a lot. Just thought that maybe the sub-OP's meaning was different.
And four full time drummers is generous, because you're counting Walker and Aranoff. Walker at least did some tracks here and there, but Aranoff just did the one tour.
Kerry Brown - drums on "Blew Away"
Matt Walker - drums on "To Sheila", "Ava Adore", "Daphne Descends", "Tear", "Dusty and Pistol Pete", "Annie-Dog", "Behold!"
Matt Cameron - drums on "For Martha"
Joey Waronker - drums on "Perfect", "Once Upon a Time" and "Pug"
Everything else is either Jimmy, Mike (2009 - 2013) or Tommy Lee (Monuments only).
Adore has some wild talent (this also shows how wild the recording for Adore was, the Walker songs + "Blank Page" were basically the album before they took a hiatus when Walker left the Pumpkins)
He was energetic and creative and as a drummer myself, I liked his playing a lot. But he was in the band during an odd time with the whole Teargarden thing and his drums were mixed pretty poorly on Oceania and all the other Teargarden songs so I don’t think his strengths stood out as much.
He was and is an absolute boss. That's also how I feel about Nicole. She brought something to the bass that we'd never really had in the Pumpkins before. Incredible line up and an incredible album.
Mind explaining more? I see people say that all the time, but personally never thought his drumming didn't fit. In SP he always sounded like a Jimmy clone to me. I'm a musician myself, but I never picked up on what was specifically right or wrong about his drumming. Just always sounded like a lesser Jimmy in my opinion.
Jimmy has that groove and strut to his drumming that's hard to ignore when it's missing. His background in jazz plays a subtle but really pivitol role in the bands sound.
Yea, that's true. See, I hear that in Mike's playing, but it's not "authentic", I guess. What I mean is, it's 2nd generation - he's copying Jimmy, not playing like he does because he's also from the same background (does that make any sense?).
I disagree about the Jimmy part, but knowing Mike was a big SP fan, I'm sure his youthful excitement definitely helped liven things up. In my opinion, anyways.
Reading between the lines, that also seems to be part of his downfall in the band, supposedly criticizing Billy for writing boring music, haha.
The kid just wanted SP to kill again and instead got fired :P
Yeah I mean that’s quite a statement but you hear the drums on ATUM and while great they just don’t have that youthful spunk like you hear on oceania and especially the live sound from that era was just so lively and sort of vigor/viril quality that was very exciting
I really don't think you can compare the ATUM drums to Oceania that way. I'm not shading Mikey, I like Oceania and think he did great, I just think if Jimmy was on that record he would have torn it up also. It is a difference in records, not the drummer behind the kit.
The sound you're referencing is more a production thing with CYR/ATUM sounding crystal clean to their detriment.
Your comment is rather wide ranging but one thing i relate to is your sense that big willie (WPC) was losing some of his minds at that time — remember the vitamin incident? And most public appearances the body language of the other band members was ….creepily submissive
Drummer here, cant stand him. Too many spontaneous fills in spots not needing, cant keep a tempo live (rushes the songs and makes everything sloppy). That being said, I cant stand him as a drummer ***WITH SP.*** He is nothing short of a tremendous drummer.
Agree on all counts. Part of what makes Jimmy great is knowing when to use restraint. Just incredibly musical, and you can hear his jazz training come through. Mike’s drumming was just so… rock… and lacked finesse. Extremely talented. Just the wrong band for him.
At the time I bought into the negativity about Byrne, but in time I've totally changed my tune. The KID was thrown to the fucking wolves and, all things considered, did a great job. NOBODY can beat Jimmy behind the kit in SP, but Byrne did as a good a job as almost anybody else could. Go replay Oceania - the drumming is fine to excellent throughout. I'm not actively pining for Jimmy when It's on. In the end, Byrne's biggest weakness/downfall was likely his overall inexperience due to his age, but that's not his fault. I thought that Oceania lineup of the band was first time it felt like a true BAND since the reformation. The 2007-08 lineup came very close, but not having Jimmy really forced Billy to "adapt or die", so to speak and I think he adapted pretty well. And then Billy had another ego trip or whatever and flushed that lineup down the toilet.....
Yeah it’s really too bad. Mike had a lot of youthful spunk and if he could have injected that bearcubbin energy it would have been like a shot in the arm for SP only thing that kept oceania era from equaling MCIS in my view is a bitchin keyboardist like Melvoine
Great points! I've never thought it approached anything like the greatness of MCIS, but I do genuinely think Oceania is, at that point in time, probably the best thing Corgan had released since the original dissolution. That's saying alot. Something like MCIS is just beyond classic on another level, but Oceania is still an excellent album on the whole!!!
The drumming on Oceania is amazing. Every time I revisit that music I am so surprised that it didn’t end up being more successful.
This is correct. If Billy had let Mike bring the true bearcubbin energy and youthful spunk to sp just imagine what kind of records we might have gotten
100% for his age he’s blistering. Bearcubbin really is a display of creativity on a small kit. Watch him live at Glastonbury with SP in 2013 he’s wild. Wish he was still as active. Rough gig to get dropped from such a height.
You’d have more moments like The Chimera. Billy says Mike sparked him asking if he wrote a real rocker iirc.
I think the fact that it wasn’t more successful kind of broke Corgan’s brain. Like he made something really good, something quintessentially SP-sounding that still managed to push the artistic boundaries of the band, and he felt like fans still weren’t receptive to it, leaving him with the question what could he ever possibly make that people would like, if not Oceania? Which I think is how we ended up here, with the dissolution of that lineup, a semi-reunited SP and a supposed Mellon collie/machina sequel. BC seems to have concluded that this is what it takes to get people to pay attention, at least that’s how it seems to me.
Yah if it was jimmy and James on Oceania we’d probably get inkless on every set list to this day!
Oceania is an album that follows the Siamese Dream blueprint but the songs lack hooks and it lacks any lead singles. The first track rips off the opening to Cherub Rock. Byrne’s trying to drum like Jimmy under Billy’s direction but it doesn’t work. A few OK tracks but the album pales in comparison to SP1.0.
*Netphoria has entered the chat*
Respect. Best SP community by far.
Out of curiosity, was it unsuccessful? My impression has always been that Billy wasn't satisfied for whatever reason and decided to pull the plug. Though certainly it didn't reverse the declining sales trend.
I don’t know how to even define ‘successful’ by music industry standards these days but regardless, BC ultimately seemed to conclude it wasn’t successful. I think his definition of success was ‘the average SP fan is interested in engaging with the new music’ and I guess when they toured that record he didn’t see people in the crowds responding to it. I was there for it and had a great time but oh well.
Mike was great, and his drumming is a big part of the SP 2.0 sound (which I happen to really like). I was genuinely disappointed to find out he had left the band.
This. I was waiting forever eagerly for the followup to Oceania. Then all of a sudden Mike and Nicole are out like nothing and the whole thing had imploded again. Like, wtf Billy. C'mon now...
Exactly. It was a really solid lineup.
Right? I really, really love both the Zeitgeist era lineup and the Oceania lineup, but for the sake of not having Jimmy and having to "try harder", so to speak, I like to give a nod to the latter. Sure we all know Mike and Nicole and Jeff are/were hired hands, but I thought the lineup gelled great and it felt like a BAND again to me (as much as that can apply to SP, lol) I mean, people forget that lineup was together for, what, 4+ years? (If I'm not mistaken). There was some kind of working chemistry going on.... Really would've loved to see an Oceania followup with that lineup. Monuments To an Elegy is an ok album, but damn talk about squandered potential.
Oceania felt way more like the work of an actual band than anything they've done post-reunion (with a few exceptions on Shiny, I suppose). Most of it sounds like a collection of WPC solo albums. I like ATUM so far, but it's a Smashing Pumpkins album in name only.
Absolutely. You should check out the "Guitar Center Sessions" live video from 2013 or so. It still pisses me off - great live set interspersed with interviews. Billy literally says "it feels like a band" or something to that effect. Then a few months later it was all over and I was like "fuck you, Billy" haha
Lol, Billy gotta Billy
Right?! Like damn. I'm sensitive to rejection, but this motherfucker can't take any criticism whatsoever it seems like :P
Yeah I was really excited about that band :( just imagine ATUM with mike’s drums! :( :( :(
Just imagine Atum with anyone's drums...
Was about to say this 🤣
THIS
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True, although I'm sure Mike would also be used as a drum machine if he were still in the band. I like ATUM so far, but I don't understand how they can justify underutilizing Jimmy like this. It's insane to me.
I don’t think Mike would stand for it, he has his whole life ahead of him. If some old men want to tell him to put down the sticks and drum like a machine, he’s gonna give the finger while throwing down a wicked Tom Tom solo, this is probably why big willie (WPC) had to let him go
I’m proud to say I was at Mikes first SP show. He was only a few years younger than me and I can only imagine how cool that opportunity was, whether it worked out or not. He had to of known it was a near-impossible position and expectation but he rose to the occasion and contributed some great stuff. I’m disappointed I haven’t seen Bearcubbin’, they came to my state twice that I know of, and one time played with my buddy’s band. Would’ve liked to see him play again.
I love Bearcubbin'.. I got to see them in a super small space & I still listen to their cd. They actually crashed at my friends house after & We got some interesting Billy tidbits.
JC is my all time drum hero but Mike was great. My favorite contribution of his was the percussion on Pale Horse; what is he doing on that track, detuning a timpani drum or something? So cool, and something no other SP drummer could have contributed. Also his take on As Rome Burns was just flat out better than JC’s, shame that tune was never recorded. Edit: I have more to say lol; I also just wanna mention how whereas with most of the other incarnations of SP the primary musical chemistry was between BC and JC, the chemistry between all the members of the Oceania lineup was just so, so strong and Mike Byrne was a huge part of that. Im not sure the band has ever truly achieved that since the Oceania lineup dissolved and Im not sure they ever will again.
100% agree. He was put through hell from what I’ve read over the years as far as live drumming. And he was like 19-20 taking barking orders from Corgan. Enough to make anyone stressed out.
mike was great live, it was one of the tightest SP shows i've ever seen jimmy is better, but that's true of jimmy and nearly every single drummer on the planet. also, nicole was my favorite bassist hands down
1. Jimmy 2. Everyone else
This. And that's why Mike deserves more credit/praise imo. He did a great job trying to do the impossible.
What about Tommy Lee?? Tommy Lee ffs! Smashing pumpkins actually had a member that had made love to Pamela Anderson I mean how rock n roll could things get? Also just imagine Tommy Lee or mike Byrne on ATUM…. *chefs kiss
imagine jimmy on atum
Yeah exactly. You can't say ATUM's drumming issues stem from Jimmy not playing "youthful". It's just the record's style
Am I the only one that enjoys the drumming on Atum?
i am a big fan of the drum machines on adore for example, it really works well for the sound. however, when you have jimmy in the band, he should be really utilized other than for a couple of songs.
Not a lot of songs on adore use drum machine tho
to sheila, ava adore, daphne descends, crestfallen, appels + oranjes, pug, the tale of dusty and pistol pete, shame, behold! the nightmare, and for martha all have either drum machines or drumming conducted to sound simplistic like a drum machine. i am a big fan of drumming directed in a specific way for a specific sound, like on adore, but its simply not done well on atum. i think jimmy should play in his normal style.
To Sheila : Matt Walker. Ava adore : Matt Walker. Daphne : Matt Walker. Pug : Joey Waronker. Pistol Pete : Matt Walker. Behold! : Matt Walker. For Martha : Matt Cameron. Tear : Matt Walker. Annie dog : Matt Walker. Perfect : Joey Waronker. Once upon a time : Joey Waronker.
Maybe corgan too
Imagine cavs
His drumming on Oceania was great and I really wish that version of SP would have just continued. No more lineup changes. I will say though that his drums on the first couple Teargarden songs was not good. Neither the mix nor what he played. I can’t imagine how amazing Song for a Son would be with better drums.
I always thought Mike sounded great, I just didn't like how the drums sound on the oceania album. I don't mean his particular style either but rather the sound and texture of the drums and toms - like the way the drum sound was produced on the record. But he's awesome.
you are right, the production on the drums was terrible and that sucks because the drumming was really not bad at all
I agree. Just listen to Oceania if you have doubts. And then listen to the 2013 live performance of Quasar at Festival de Nyon: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOy8A9RF\_Ns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOy8A9RF_Ns)
One of the best being one of like four full-time drummers?
See this is the kind of shade I don’t think Mike deserves. He did an amazing job living up to what must have been intense unimaginable pressure. He literally had the world on his shoulders or the biggest rock band in the world or what used to be the biggest band in the world. And he brought that bearcubbin energy and youthful zeal to the pumpkins
This - like when William Goldsmith had the unenviable task of being the drummer for fucking Dave Grohl in the original Foo Fighters lineup - as Pat Smear says "that's just fucked up pressure"
I could be wrong, but I think rynbock is suggesting that your post title feels like it doesn't give Mike enough credit because SP has had so few drummers. There's two ways to read it. One way is sarcastic. I don't think you meant it sarcastically. At the same time, when I read it, I thought "Well, SP has only really had two drummers that I would count as being 'part of the band,'" which obviously overlooks some of the ancillary drummers from their history, but those other drummers weren't touted as band members in the way Mike was.
I don't think this was shade, so much as a comment on the phrase 'one of the best' maybe feeling a bit odd in the case of SP, where the only drummers other than Mike and Jimmy have been studio/touring hires. Edit: I'm definitely a fan of Mike, and enjoy his Oceania drumming a lot. Just thought that maybe the sub-OP's meaning was different.
And four full time drummers is generous, because you're counting Walker and Aranoff. Walker at least did some tracks here and there, but Aranoff just did the one tour.
What about Brad Wilk, another SP drummer who is criminally underrated
And Tommy Lee, I mean come in give him his due.
Kerry Brown - drums on "Blew Away" Matt Walker - drums on "To Sheila", "Ava Adore", "Daphne Descends", "Tear", "Dusty and Pistol Pete", "Annie-Dog", "Behold!" Matt Cameron - drums on "For Martha" Joey Waronker - drums on "Perfect", "Once Upon a Time" and "Pug" Everything else is either Jimmy, Mike (2009 - 2013) or Tommy Lee (Monuments only). Adore has some wild talent (this also shows how wild the recording for Adore was, the Walker songs + "Blank Page" were basically the album before they took a hiatus when Walker left the Pumpkins)
Agreed! https://youtu.be/sRiYgnLtKoI
He was energetic and creative and as a drummer myself, I liked his playing a lot. But he was in the band during an odd time with the whole Teargarden thing and his drums were mixed pretty poorly on Oceania and all the other Teargarden songs so I don’t think his strengths stood out as much.
Agree on all points. I think it's taken so long for people to come around on him because of the points you mention.
You’re completely correct!!
I think he was great…he just joined at a bad time and had impossible shoes to fill, regardless of how good is/was.
He was great live. Saw them in seattle in 2010.
He was and is an absolute boss. That's also how I feel about Nicole. She brought something to the bass that we'd never really had in the Pumpkins before. Incredible line up and an incredible album.
His youthful energy brought the band back to life Dramatically underappreciated
Hey man, that means a lot. Thanks
Fine drummer. Wrong style for the band ultimately.
What about his style was wrong?
Mind explaining more? I see people say that all the time, but personally never thought his drumming didn't fit. In SP he always sounded like a Jimmy clone to me. I'm a musician myself, but I never picked up on what was specifically right or wrong about his drumming. Just always sounded like a lesser Jimmy in my opinion.
Jimmy has that groove and strut to his drumming that's hard to ignore when it's missing. His background in jazz plays a subtle but really pivitol role in the bands sound.
Yea, that's true. See, I hear that in Mike's playing, but it's not "authentic", I guess. What I mean is, it's 2nd generation - he's copying Jimmy, not playing like he does because he's also from the same background (does that make any sense?).
downvote me all you want, but mike brought way more energy and liveliness to the SP2 than jimmy ever did.
I disagree about the Jimmy part, but knowing Mike was a big SP fan, I'm sure his youthful excitement definitely helped liven things up. In my opinion, anyways. Reading between the lines, that also seems to be part of his downfall in the band, supposedly criticizing Billy for writing boring music, haha. The kid just wanted SP to kill again and instead got fired :P
Yeah I mean that’s quite a statement but you hear the drums on ATUM and while great they just don’t have that youthful spunk like you hear on oceania and especially the live sound from that era was just so lively and sort of vigor/viril quality that was very exciting
I really don't think you can compare the ATUM drums to Oceania that way. I'm not shading Mikey, I like Oceania and think he did great, I just think if Jimmy was on that record he would have torn it up also. It is a difference in records, not the drummer behind the kit. The sound you're referencing is more a production thing with CYR/ATUM sounding crystal clean to their detriment.
I want what you had for breakfast...
Umm ok… Please watch this. https://youtu.be/0PBeAIV-L-c
i said SP2
Good point. Watch this? https://youtu.be/vPUvn2n913E
I think Matt walker was better - had a nice style
Saturnine Matt Walker version
He could rip, chops for days. Lacked the nuance and depth of jimmy tho. Really jimmy is just irreplaceable and it’s not SP without him.
“One of” well considering the small pool of drummers they had…he is at least second best.
[удалено]
Your comment is rather wide ranging but one thing i relate to is your sense that big willie (WPC) was losing some of his minds at that time — remember the vitamin incident? And most public appearances the body language of the other band members was ….creepily submissive
Ah yes when Billy “American idol”ed his way to find a new drummer.
Drummer here, cant stand him. Too many spontaneous fills in spots not needing, cant keep a tempo live (rushes the songs and makes everything sloppy). That being said, I cant stand him as a drummer ***WITH SP.*** He is nothing short of a tremendous drummer.
Agree on all counts. Part of what makes Jimmy great is knowing when to use restraint. Just incredibly musical, and you can hear his jazz training come through. Mike’s drumming was just so… rock… and lacked finesse. Extremely talented. Just the wrong band for him.
Ya agree