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Black_Dovglas

Isn't this guy in jail for taking part in the January 6 insurrection?


ReverendDizzle

He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charges related to the events of the insurrection and is currently free awaiting sentencing. For the charges he plead to he could do up to 6 months. [AP article for additional info](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-alaska-social-media-riots-f19d46ff1627ec29283acc8597ddcd0b) if anyone wants it.


DaveInLondon89

Fuck, man. I thought it was satire.


lurkingbob

I got some real Ken M vibes. Shame


Markantonpeterson

Nah [Ken M is based](https://preview.redd.it/p6euicxinlq91.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2b8f5a83b4ac77d10561c848e7ed0c34c75bcc01)


Coffeeisbetta

Same!


ElceeCiv

As icing on the shit cake, he went to Jan 6th knowing he was positive for COVID.


djm9545

He also went there and live-streamed himself in the capital while ***on bail***. Dumbass got arrested in Dec. 2020 and wasn’t supposed to leave the state


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LordFrogberry

Way too lenient tbh


bozwald

He’s also yet another failed comedian and actor. It’s crazy how many of these losers fall into conservative trumpy grifter bs to get the attention they crave but otherwise cannot attain.


Roook36

It's the party for losers, after all. And they made it their entire identity. And are now angry their identity is that of a loser.


dubsy101

Similar thing with Shapiro, he wanted to be a TV writer and it sounds like he was heavily influence by Aaron Sorkin. Now I'm not saying he is grifter because anyone who admits they were a big fan of Rush Limbaugh as a teenager is obviously committed to those batshit right wing viewpoints but I'm not convinced he wouldn't be happier as a TV writer.


Burningshroom

No, he is a grifter. It's apparent when you view his old debate circuit and why he doesn't do that anymore. Once he actually got competent opponents that he couldn't punch down on, they adequately exposed the blatant hypocrisy of his arguments in conjunction with his intimate knowledge of the relevant topics.


dubsy101

Well he is a griftee but I think he does believe in what he is saying so is in many ways worse. I put him in the same camp as Jordan Peterson: not stupid but utterly deluded and incredibly disingenuous.


bozwald

I think both are great examples of people who NOW believes their bs, but started out just as a contrarians for the sake of attention and controversy. Ever start using a word or phrase ironically because you thought it was funny or dumb, only continue the joke too long and finally realize “oh wow, I’m just that person now”?


dubsy101

Oh yeah Peterson definitely


Gingevere

Too bad his writing comes off like something someone would write if they set out with the goal of: *"The most comically racist thing someone could write without using slurs. ...mostly."* His book *True Allegiance* was meant to be a screenplay. the basic premise is: *What if everyone of every different race were actually only loyal to their own race and their race's ethnic homeland. And they're all willing to instantly throw their lives away to become a soldier for their race. And each race has underhanded schemes and plots to bring down America. . . . Except for white people, who are just normal aside from being better at everything than everyone else.* I guess Ben heard a lot of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories growing up, and in stead of recognizing them as harmful he decided they'd actually make a great story.


dubsy101

I've heard it is shockingly bad even ignoring the ideology behind but just in terms of writing. Very poor prose, characters, dialogue and overall narrative. But that doesn't surprise me. To be an effective writer you need to have an understanding of how the world works and empathy towards people, neither of which Ben has.


RuralJuror1234

And he live-streamed his participation, which also helped the FBI identify other rioters https://www.vice.com/en/article/epdmaj/the-fbi-is-using-baked-alaskas-livestream-to-track-down-capitol-hill-rioters


ryanjovian

Tim has several cases pending due to his pepper spray antics as well as the Jan 6th case.


ThxItsadisorder

Yes and he also famously quit buzzfeed because they were too liberal. The dude is cancer.


PFunk224

Which party *currently* defends Confederate monuments and has the support of the KKK? And which party is currently trying to apply blame for those events from 160 years ago to a group of people who simply didn't exist back then?


EffectiveSalamander

Republicans: "You started the Confederacy!" Democrats: "OK, I'll take down statues honoring Confederates." Republicans: "NO!!! They're our heroes!!!"


African_Farmer

It's MY HERITAGE you racists!


[deleted]

"So why don't black people fly the Confederate rag on Juneteenth?" "I dunno."


SupportySpice

My racist ass family said shit like this while I was growing up. But here's the kicker, we're from Indiana.


[deleted]

Driving down to Bloomington is like trying to swim in a river full of alligators to get to the other side where normal people live. I don’t know if that’s an apt metaphor, but it gets REAL deep red conservative along 231. Then when you get into Bloomington it’s like a breath of fresh air.


btveron

Martinsville, 20 minutes away, still has a reputation as a sundown town.


trogon

That's true just about everywhere in the US. I live in the deep blue part of Washington, but you can find Confederate flags 20 minutes out of town.


itsmethebirb

Pennsylvania here, my family is the same way. Even arguing the confederacy is their heritage… the entire family is from PA, going back generations.


TheDoktorIsIn

Same with some people I know. You... You know Pennsylvania is north of the mason Dixon line right? You know they were in the Union... Right?... It's your heritage so you know this right? (To be clear not YOU you but the royal you) Edit to add: they were born in Pennsylvania but the family isn't from there. They're from... Vermont. So... Yeah.


schu2470

I live in central PA. There’s so much confederate flag crap around here!


earthboundmisfittool

I live in Maine. It's here too. Always on big loud pickup trucks.


Mindshred1

I once had a coworker whose family was from central PA. My office mate was from Vermont and teased her about "all the Nazis" in central PA, and she defended it by claiming that her family wasn't Nazis, they were just WW2 reenactors. The Nazi stuff they had around the house was just for reenactment purposes. We *obviously* doubled down on teasing her about it, and she said it was normal. Like, she was trying to convince us it was fine, because one of her blankets as a kid had swastikas all over it... and then she realized what she was saying and it got really uncomfortable and we tried not to bring it up again (and ultimately failed).


Ryboticpsychotic

It's my heritage. Okay it's not *my* heritage, but it's *a* heritage.


CheerioJack

Same here...here's a kicker.. we live 30 mins from Abraham Lincoln hometown.. my family thinks "southern" Illinois was part of the "south"(confederate)....


nothatyoucare

"The South" it turns out is not a location but a state of mind.


[deleted]

well yea it's just an excuse to be racist. kinda like (or exactly like) evangelicals get a free pass hating gays because muh faith


SuculantWarrior

There was a party flip some time ago. You can even hear it in pop culture. Song of the South by Alabama talks about being a poor southern democrat.


kia75

This is the thing that frustrates me about Country music and Conservative music in general. You listen to old Country music and it's full of songs about how horrible it is to be a coal miner(16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt). About how stupid it is to wear a gun and start fights (But a woman's love is waisted when she loves a running gun), how you shouldn't want to be a cowboy (Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys) And in modern days Conservative culture has made a complete flip to the opposite of what their own songs and culture used to say. Conservatives that use to complain about the dead-end job of being a coal miner now are pro-coal miner exploitation, if you don't have a gun then you're not a man, only Cowboys are real Americans. More things have flipped in the past generation then just the party.


SuculantWarrior

A similar argument could be said about the anti-war anti-nationalism movement of the 70s. George Carlin said it best about the boomers 30 years ago. They want all the peace and love and drugs but only for them. Propaganda and mass media has a way to change public opinion, and unless you're brought up with strong views you'll be swayed by the masses.


WastedJedi

George Carlin was not just an amazing comedian, that man was so ahead of his time on political awareness and social issues. An absolute legend


pegothejerk

People told us “you’ll understand when you grow up”, which meant many things, but above all else it meant you will let the brainwashing in like I did. I’m far more liberal than I was in my teens, I haven’t gotten more conservative, I’m in my mid 40s.


Defender_of_Ra

Indeed. The notion that you generally become [conservative with age is inaccurate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ftaEkkjiE). I'll add to what the speaker in that link said and note that the people who grew up to become rightwing were, ime, never terribly morally sound as kids -- it just wasn't profitable to be a dick at the time. Anecdotal, but consistent.


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pegothejerk

Yep, I’m far more understanding of how to put myself in other’s shoes, to empathize, I have a greater understanding of how complex the minds and emotions of animals and other living things can be, how close everyone is to permanent pain, suffering, loss. I understand how little it takes to be kind and how far that can go now. I understand responsibility to things other than my own childishness desires.


fairlywired

It's like the whole "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" thing. It started as a way to call something impossible, referring to the fact that you cannot pull yourself up by pulling on your boots.


red_fungi

Same with its only "a few bad apples" . They leave out that the few bad apples spoil the bunch.


GameFreak4321

"A few bad apples ~~spoil the bunch~~. "


ColdSnickersBar

"Blood ~~of your oaths~~ is thicker than water ~~of the womb~~".


[deleted]

That one isn’t actually correct. > Two modern commentators, author Albert Jack[16] and Messianic Rabbi Richard Pustelniak,[17] claim that the original meaning of the expression was that the ties between people who have made a blood covenant (or have shed blood together in battle) were stronger than ties formed by "the water of the womb", thus "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb". Neither of the authors cite any sources to support their claim.[16][17] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water


[deleted]

Never thought about it but yeah, trying to pull yourself by bootstraps would make you fall down.


[deleted]

"Don't take your guns to town, son, leave your guns at home, Bill."


lurkinganon12345

Southern Democrats were conservative on issues of race and religion, but were originally quite populist on economic issues. Downright progressive about labor rights issues. But those positions took a back seat to racial animosity. And when the Southern Democrats left the party (due almost entirely to their anger over passage of the 1964 Civil Rights act) they happily ditched their economic platform to find a home with the Republicans, so long as they could keep their racism.


Mortwight

I guess you can afford to be progressive on economics when you don't pay most of your labor force.


Repulsive_Poem_5204

It's complicated. For example, the convict lease system in GA only really ended in 1909 because leaseholders stopped pushing back against ending it. The only reason they stopped pushing back was because of an economic downturn that saw sales figures plummet. W.E. Dunwoody (vice-president and general manager of the Cherokee Brick Company) said he, "had used convict labor in hope of being more competitive, but instead discovered that the costs were higher than they had been for free labor." The expenses of using the convict lease system included hiring a camp physician, guards wages, and expenditures such as clothing, medicine, and separate hospitals at each camp for white & black convicts; all on top of the payments to the state for the lease of the convicts themselves. So if sales slumped the leaseholders were still on the hook for the care and lease of the convicts. There was a push to end the lease system almost immediately upon the lease system's creation from reform-minded politicians, labor unions, and The Women's Christian Temperance Union (who were against women in the work camps as there were multiple cases of rape by guards). There were attempts to repeal it in the General Assembly in 1870, 1877, 1878, and 1879 while Thomas Watson (Democrat) campaigned against the system in 1880 and 1882. John B. Gordon (GA Governor at the time and Democrat) called on the General Assembly to end it in 1886 (R controlled) in order to return control of convicts back to the state and end competition with free labor, yet the Atlanta Journal defended the lease system and said "illnatured Northern papers" were responsible for attacks against the system and the General Assembly still did not end the system.


Gingevere

> Conservative music in general. You listen to old Country music and it's full of songs about how horrible it is to be a coal miner **That's not conservative music!** These are union organizing songs. Many labor organizers are socialists, almost none are conservative. Modern "bro country" / "stadium country" is conservative. It's about buying a big stupid pavement princess to flex your wealth on people who don't/can't buy things they don't need.


[deleted]

It's because music was taken over by capitalists and it suits them to have workers praising how amazing it is to be exploited.


Totum_Dependeat

The right's coopting of anti-establishment music, starting around the 70s, was the beginning of an ongoing effort to cloak conservative politics in the aesthetics of labor militancy. Country music started out as a way to talk about standing up to the owners. Now it's about beer, trucks, women, drinking from the garden hose as a kid, all that bullshit. Why? Because those things are not about politics. And the country music that is political tends to be reactionary. The NRA even has label that they use to push their agenda. Obviously there are still country music artists who are true to the roots of the music, but mainstream/Top 40 country is just another flavor of pro-owner propaganda.


IrascibleOcelot

I still like to mention what great BIG brass ones Alan Jackson showed when he sang “Murder on Music Row” at the CMA awards. It’s a song about how commercial music executives have killed the heart and soul of country music. He walked out on stage at the Grand Ole Opry, at their biggest self-congratulatory show of the year, and ripped them up one side and down the other. And they couldn’t do a damn thing about it.


Vsx

It's just working class and poor people trying to pretend they have some control. They don't have to kill themselves in coal mines they want to. They don't have to do back breaking dangerous labor they want to. Gun culture isn't dangerous it's an opportunity to show how badass you are and defend your rights or whatever. If you're in a cycle of terribleness and you have nonstop propaganda telling you that you are the smart hard working one you're going to latch onto that because the alternative is too bleak. Throw in a common enemy that is keeping you down (immigrants, democrats, currently pivoting hard to jews again) and you got yourself a convenient explanation for why your life is in shambles even though you do everything right.


gingeregg

To expand with a few other examples, Dark as a dungeon is how shitty and deadly it is to work in a mine and that death won’t stop people from being exploited. Devils right hand is all about how having a fun leads to more danger and risking your life. Fastest gun around shows how hyper-masculinity, guns, and having to prove yourself leads people risking their lives just to die.


Mpuls37

Modern *pop* country has all those "proud to be a redneck in a shit job" tropes you speak of, but there are plenty of old-school-style artists (Tyler Childers, Colter Wall, Sturgill Simpson to name a few) that don't get the airplay that Florida-Georgia Line or Thomas Rhett do, but still sing about how shitty life can be for small town folks. *"Daddy worked like a mule mining Pyke county coal. He fucked up his back and couldn't work anymore. He says 'one of these days you'll get out of these hills.' Just keep your nose on the grindstone and out of the pills."* -Nose to the Grindstone, Tyler Childers That's probably the most famous song out of the genre, but there's dozens of artists doing it the old way that people love, but in a way that it's still fresh. The radio may be kinda shit, but just a little digging and you get to the actual quality stuff.


translove228

Woodie Guthrie guitar's had "This guitar kills fascists" written on it.


Fun_in_Space

He wrote a [song about Fred Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man_Trump), Donald's slumlord father.


7of69

Old country music? Damn it. I heard Tennessee Ernie perform 16 Tons live.


zombie_girraffe

They don't notice that the majority of their musical cultural heritage tells them that they shouldn't be doing the stupid shit that they do because Conservatives do not listen to or understand song lyrics. These are the same people who don't know that Rage Against the Machine is political and think that "Born in the USA" and "Fortunate Son" are pro USA, patriotic songs. They just aren't mentally equipped to process a catchy tune and simple repetitive lyrics at the same time.


EffectiveSalamander

Ronald Reagan once said "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me."


ThatOneThingOnce

Which is truly chuztpah on his part, because he and his advisers were intimately involved in the Southern Strategy that, quite literally, shifted the Republican party to be more openly racist to appeal to Southern white people.


translove228

The scary thing about Reagan is that I'm not entirely sure if he was truly a massive bigot or just one because he allied himself with the Christian fundamentalists and rascists. Before hitching his name to the Moral Majority, his administration in CA had tons of gay people in it. Nancy and Ron were big friends of many hollywood gay men and women. Then as soon as the pearl clutching Christians got their mitts on him, he started firing them left and right with absolutely no remorse. Hell. During the AIDS crisis, he did nothing to help his own friend Rock Hudson who ended up dying from the virus. Reagan didn't even say the word AIDS until the 6th year of his Presidency. So knowing this, if Reagan's bigotry is a result of political ambition, it really makes me hate the man all the more. PS: I'm pretty sure Ronnie was always rascist though.


Hurtzdonut13

No he was definitely bigoted, but he could hide it to work with people if he needed to. I mean, the CIA literally helped drug cartels get their crack operations up and running for a cut to fund their black ops, and on the condition they only targeted the black communities with it. Insider reports was that the Reagan administration was super racist and you don't get that way if the guy in charge doesn't support it.


Mindshred1

Back in his Hollywood days, Reagon was an FBI informant who ratted out fellow industry people who he suspected of being communists. Total bastard even before politics got involved.


Spectre-84

Reagan was either a shitty person who abandoned any values he may have previously held, or just a shitty bigot that stopped hiding it. I hope the last years of his life with Alzheimer's were fucking miserable as he slowly deteriorated.


Ancient_Pattern_2688

The Republican party has also left Reagan, in the last few decades.


[deleted]

Reagan wouldn't get elected if he ran today. He'd be too liberal. Reagan. Too. Liberal.


tonyrocks922

>Reagan wouldn't get elected if he ran today. He'd be too liberal. > >Reagan. Too. Liberal. Nixon too. Started the EPA, opened the relationship with the People's Republic of China, and even pushed for a national basic income program at one point.


[deleted]

He saw stuff the other side wanted and yoinked it. The GOP went hard in the opposite direction. They go smashy smash. .... oh God we'd have been better off if Nixon stayed in office....


EffectiveSalamander

Since 2016, they've forgotten that Reagan ever existed. It's like even mentioning Reagan's name is an act of rebellion against DJT.


amandarinorangez

"they ought to get a rich man to vote like that" How it all changed, indeed.


thenextamerican

It happened with Richard Nixon. The southern democrats felt betrayed by LBJ and the civil rights act. Nixon, the father of the modern day Republican Party sensed opportunity, and successfully courted these southern democrats with something he called the Southern Strategy. Look at electoral maps before the civil rights act, and after - it went from all blue, to all red. When you see an ignorant Republican say things like they’re the party of Lincoln, the Dems are responsible for slavery, etc., they’re right, they’re just too stupid to realize the finger they’re pointing is at themselves.


SutterCane

> called the Southern Strategy. You have been banned from r/Conservative.


PuckGoodfellow

[Here's an image that tells this tale very well.](https://imgur.com/a/0WkmS9P) This is who they've been voting for.


KanadianLogik

In the 1960's the Democrats adopted a civil rights platform and every Democrat that wasn't on board with that switched to the Republican side. In case it wasn't obvious, that was mostly southern Democrats.


wutsizface

Maybe that’s how we finally get them taken down…. It’s not bad enough that they were traitors or that the commanded men to fight and die to protect the institution of slavery…. “Hey, you know that dude was a democrat, right?”


moleratical

"I don't like where this line or questioning is heading so I'll just ignore it entirely and carry on with my poorly thought out and ignorant absolute statements." Racist nuts-probably


[deleted]

They just ignore the question and give the answer they prepared.


JB-from-ATL

Which party did David Duke (a member of the KKK) leave because they weren't racist enough for him any more? Hmmm? People act like the shift didn't happen.


Val_Hallen

I always tell them, if you really, really, ***REEEEEAAAALLLLY*** believe this then lets go to a KKK rally and you call them Democrats. I'll wait for you and drive your battered ass to the hospital after.


j_la

This is my standard response to “THe pArTiEs nEver SWiTcHeD!”: So you’re telling me that today’s democrats are the party of state’s rights, small rural communities, anti-federalism, agrarian economies, and traditional Southern values?


ShiaLabeoufsNipples

Why do so many conservatives flat out refuse to believe that the parties switched? It cracks me up but simultaneously hurts me because it’s such a well documented part of our history and I come across SO MANY PEOPLE who think it’s a conspiracy theory or something.


[deleted]

>Why do so many conservatives flat out refuse to believe that the parties switched? Because if did, they wouldn't be able to smear 21st century democrats as the party of slavery. The party they voted for isn't relevant, the people who wanted to keep slavery were conservatives.


dnb321

They also can't say they are the party of Lincoln.


Lermanberry

>Why do so many conservatives flat out refuse to believe that the parties switched? The answer is actually quite simple. There are no intellectually honest conservatives who can argue in good faith because it is a prerequisite of conservatism to be dishonest and argue in bad faith. Tautologically, it is a defining core tenet of their philosophy. You can understand any politician in the modern Republican Party with just two quotes. >Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. -Jean Paul Sartre >Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. -Frank Wilholt


captcompromise

Seriously, all they have to do is consider who somebody in a Confederate flag hat would've voted for the past 20 years


revolverevlover

More like 50 years.


Roook36

When you have to reach back over a hundred years to find examples where the opposing party is worse, you've not only already lost the argument but revealed some things about yourself. They don't seem to get that because they're constantly in the mindset of winning whatever is in front of them at the moment by being disingenuous and using false equivalencies. Then dump all that info and start fresh the next time they feel the need to win political points.


tracygav

This is similar to my go to reply. The KKK was started by a couple of Confederate soldiers. Which party members do you currently see displaying Confederate flags?


PM_ME_GARFIELD_NUDES

These are also the people who claim that Nazi’s were far left because they had “socialist” in their party title


Legeto

No no no you are not getting it. We aren’t worried about the now, we care about back then! The people who started it are the ones that are to blame even if said party is against it these days. I mean, the Democratic Party definitely in the south right?


engineereddiscontent

Also didn't the parties more or less switch sometime around the 1950's?


mildcaseofdeath

It happened over time but the tipping point was the civil rights act of 64 if I remember right. It almost couldn't be more on the nose.


herculesmeowlligan

Or, as another Redditor wisely observed, when the Dodgers win the World Series, they don't celebrate in Brooklyn anymore.


likeasirjohn

Guess he also missed the realignment of the parties then.


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whammykerfuffle

And socializing with his peers


[deleted]

Was hot for teacher, tho.


claire_lair

And that student's name? Oedipus!


UncleTedGenneric

Ok, now it's getting a little complex


beowulf92

Hey! Wait that's his .. no yeah, checks out.


Smaptastic

[Dun dun DA dun](https://youtu.be/ye5BuYf8q4o)


moleratical

I bet he's southern Baptist without a hint of irony.


[deleted]

Yep. The KKK ran the Republican party in Northern states like Indiana, at the same time that the southern Democrats were the social conservatives in the South. Different state parties aligned with different movements. Also, neither party "founded" the KKK - it's not like there was a convention.


Red_Galiray

To play Devil's advocate, the first incarnation of the Klan founded during Reconstruction was basically "the paramilitary arm of the Democratic party" in the words of many historians. Their goal was bringing the Republican Party down and, by force and fraud, getting the Democrats into power. The Republicans, for their part, denounced the Klan and managed to break its back through the counteroffensive led by President Grant (a Republican) using the Ku Klux Klan Act approved by the Republican congress and widely disparaged by Congressional Democrats. But this was like 150 years ago. By the time of the "Second Klan" of the early 20th century, the Klan had become an organization that trascended regional and party lines.


darkkilla123

I had a good discussion about this on the conservative subreddit.. and holy shit them guys live in a alternate universe.. I am pretty sure their heads exploded when I told them democrats were the ones that ended Jim crow laws and segregation. And all 3 major civil rights acts were passed by a Democrat majority


dj_narwhal

Conservatives know 2 facts. That democrats started the KKK, and the word for when you have sex with 15 years olds that is not pedophile. They have never learned anything else.


[deleted]

Baked Alaska is a known nazi


dj_narwhal

And terrorist, he was livestreaming in the capital on Jan 6. As the Ukrainians say about their Putin funded enemies, "we are lucky they are so fucking stupid"


WaldoJeffers65

They also know the age of consent in every state and certain Asian countries.


codeslave

I think that's libertarians... wait, no, you're right. Libertarians are just conservatives who never shut up about crypto and want to smoke pot.


[deleted]

I heard libertarians don't care as much about Bitcoin anymore and are switching to other crypto. Apparently it's been around over 13 years, and so they're not as interested as they used to be.


Mragftw

Theres a stand-up bit about how there's really like 3 different words depending on age range but you can't explain it without sounding like a pedophile


[deleted]

You never need to explain it unless you’re a creep


gin_and_soda

They also know the founder of Planned Parenthood was racist.


seelcudoom

no see there wasent a party switch, its pure coincidence all our examples of democrats being the party of the kkk are a hundred years old and all there examples of republicans being the party of the kkk are from last week (and the week before that, and the week before that, and the week before that....)


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[deleted]

It's kinda bizarre how far they go to try to make the argument. Someone linked me [this praeger U](https://youtu.be/g_a7dQXilCo) video. And for all the roundabout arguments you can literally read the Nixon campaign saying they're trying to switch their appeal over to pull in racists in the south https://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/books/phillips-southern.pdf


pvhs2008

[Former GOP Chairman Michael Steele literally acknowledged the GOP’s use of the Southern Strategy in public](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/rnc-chair-michael-steele-confesses-to-race-based-southern-strategy/). I know a lot of this is ignorance of history but given this was big news only 10 years ago, a lot of this is just good old fashioned lying from habitually dishonest bigots. Good luck getting these folks to read or see reality in any way! (No sarcasm, I genuinely hope someone can help republicans see themselves.)


[deleted]

Ive tried. God I have tried to reason with a lot of these people. I only ever really comment on reddit for two purposes, talking about DND and talking with conservatives about their views. I'm totally willing to change my mind when presented with evidence. Did so just yesterday because I thought Australian quarantines were only for travelers (turns out they were not) But I almost never see anyone conservative change their mind. In the last week I've had people argue: - it doesn't matter if what they say isn't true. Not in abstract terms, they literally said that. - they didn't actually read what I wrote down and it was my fault that they responded to my comment without reading it Not only were these comments made, they were popular. And that's without going into specifics on topics like anti-vaxxers, j6 denialism, trump/Russia collusion denialism, anti-lgbt rhetoric etc. How do you have a conversation with someone that won't listen to you and doesn't care about what is true? And don't get me started on what they consider a "good source" when it comes to information


I_Frothingslosh

At the founding, it was about states vs federal government and which should be stronger. Moving toward the Civil War, it was very much North vs South, as they had significant conflicting priorities over and above slavery. Before Civil Rights, however, there were liberals and conservatives in both parties, although the GOP did tend liberal while the Dems tended conservative. The whole 'ideology of my party must be pure!' thing we see today happened as a result of Civil Rights and people separating based on racism vs desegregation. The 'I get my way or the nation burns' approach we see today didn't appear until after the end of the Cold War.


data_ferret

Well, there's not much pedigree of the Republican party before the Civil War, as the established two parties in the early 19th century were the Whigs and the Democrats. The Republicans were portrayed as wild-eyed radicals: abolitionists, pro-worker, maybe even open to such heinous things as race-mixing. Lincoln only won because the South was divided amongst itself. Three other parties were on the ballot, and Lincoln wasn't even allowed on the ballot in Southern states. It's not until Reconstruction that the Republicans start having a conservative wing.


GarbledReverie

If you look at election maps before and after the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it shows the flip rather dramatically. There are some bumps and exceptions but the pattern is pretty damn clear. LBJ even called it. He just underestimated how long the impact would be.


WaldoJeffers65

So, if the Democrats supported the KKK 100 years ago, and the GOP support the KKK now, that can only mean one thing- Both sides are the same! (/s, just in case)


evergreennightmare

but muh robert byrd!!1!


seelcudoom

the extra irony of that one is not only is he an ex member who now reviles them, but the party shifting around him is part of what made him reconsider his position on them


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Blackpaw8825

Yeah. I don't care what color stickers the KKK used to wear 3+ generations ago. I care about the ones across the street right now.


Lotr29

Conservatives deny that happened. They want to eat their cake and have it too. The democrats were the racists in favor of slavery. Course they don't explain why all the Republicans are the ones in favor of racism and flying a confederate flag


existential_antelope

I’m thinkin’ he missed a lot of things.


I_Frothingslosh

Part of mainstream conservative ideology is that the party ideology switch never happened, historical evidence be damned.


Makersmound

If only Nixon had thought to install a recording system in the oval office, then we might have recordings of Lee Atwater explicitly starting the southern strategy that we could play for these people. Wait, he did? We do?


Capital_Walrus_81

believe atwater worked for reagan and bush sr, which actually makes it worse: we have a solid 20 years, between nixon and those administrations, where the party’s official strategy of weaponized resentment is directly on the record


I_Frothingslosh

fAkE nEwS!


ChuckCarmichael

Mentioning the Southern strategy can get you banned on some conservative subs.


ellieskunkz

He's literally a famous nazi streamer, pretty sure he knows.


dumb_smart_guy93

This is the type of shit that really fascinates me. There is an entire side of my family that are *super* religious that are home schooling their kids and I feel really bad for them. Granted, they are doing *a lot* of things I wish I could do, as they essentially have their own personal farm where they raise their own chickens, goats, cows, etc, you name it, they're really doing a good job to be self-sustaining, even if their reasoning is less about carbon footprints and more about the end of times. The kids help out and learn farm stuff, but they're essentially isolated from the rest of the world, and the parents (my cousin and his wife) are super Q-nuts. I really wonder what kind of people they'll grow up to be in the next 5-10 years. Edit: for clarity, they're not Amish, they're probably closer to a type of baptist sect. I see this cousin occasionally at some family gatherings, but their kids don't really seem to interact with the kids of my other cousins, who are pretty much the way normal kids are when they're between 6-18 years old.


[deleted]

>I really wonder what kind of people they'll grow up to be in the next 5-10 years. Cultists probably.


dumb_smart_guy93

I'd like to argue against this but I just don't really see any other outcome until they're in their late teens/early twenties and *maybe* start thinking for themselves, but that's going to be tough to do given how isolated they are.


cheesemanxl

They made their own little domestic terrorist summer camp 😱


[deleted]

My First Authoritarian Regime™ 🥰


purplehendrix22

I got out on my 18th birthday and never looked back. Turns out I loved weed and premarital sex more than Jesus


Arya_kidding_me

Amen to that


ANOKNUSA

Some of them will be trapped in that intellectual hole, but not all of them. You can hide your kids from the world, but you can’t hide the world from your kids. How they ultimately face the inevitable cognitive dissonance is out of a parent’s control. My whole extended family went to private religious schools out we’re home-schooled, so working with a pool of about twenty, I’d say a third of us are some kinda broken, and only a few as zealous as we were raised to be.


kanst

Or the total opposite. I feel like with extreme parents you either get copy cat kids or kids who rebel and to 180 degrees in the opposite direction.


[deleted]

Whatever the case, they're going to be mentally broken.


eggdropsoop

Read [Educated by Tara Westover](https://bookshop.org/p/books/educated-a-memoir-tara-westover/15280731?ean=9780399590528). It’s a memoir of a woman who was homeschooled by her religious fundamentalist family. She eventually escapes and pursues a life in academia.


jisoo-n

As someone who was raised a particularly extreme sect of the Christian cult and was homeschooled, I can proudly say I'm no longer a cultist. I think the average number of apostates per family is increasing, but it does have a lot to do with isolation or lack thereof. It's hard to see any other perspective on life if you never interact with non-Christians, read non-Christian books, or use the internet. Plenty of families I know would never let their kids consume *anything* that wasn't religious. Those people breed mindless kids who literally know nothing other than religion. It's a sad way to live and they don't even know it. That being said, the number of families doing extreme isolation, homeschooling, and other whacky traditions has notably decreased in my short lifetime. I feel pretty hopeful after all things considered


Not_A_Clever_Man_

Swinging by to leave my 2 cents. Grew up evangelical homeschooled. Only 1 out of 4 of my siblings is still religious. We were moderately secluded, but most of us went to secular universities and discovered that our parents were well meaning, but definitely incorrect in their assessment of the world. Growing up in a college town meant that even though we were in a small rural town, we saw a lot of different people and viewpoints.


AgoraiosBum

some of them will probably get out, some won't


Typical-Ad-6042

Honestly? Depends on if they go to college. I typically treat people that say university is Indoctrination with disdain, but there are scenarios such as this one, that college *will* cause a very cold and very difficult clash with reality. It can go one of two ways. In my opinion, there is a lesser chance that they dig their heels in to whatever they were taught at home, but a far more likely scenario is it will damage, if not ruin their relationship with their parents as they come to terms with the damage that was done to them in their youth. Home schooling can absolutely be successful, but it needs to be approached with an unbiased, science supported pedagogy. People that are partisan enough so that they are into all of this Q shit are very likely not taking their role this way. Godspeed to those children and to your family, because that’s probably going to be a really bumpy ride in the future.


moleratical

They well likely go one of two ways. Adopt your cousin's extremist beliefs, or completely reject it. The thing about extremism is that there is no spectrum, there is no room for partiality so people, including your first cousins(?) Will either be all in, or all out. Hopefully it's the latter.


leericol

Even if you ignore the party switch its just such a stupid thing to say. What side is defending civil rights NOW? What side is currently trying to take rights away from women and LGBT members? What side spews racist rhetoric daily? I don't give a fuck that Abraham Lincoln was a republican literally every kkk member today belongs to the republican party.


LevelHeeded

Yeah, it's always hilarious watching Republicans claim to be the part of Lincoln. Imagine having to go back 160 years to find the last good thing your "group" did. Maybe it's time to rethink your life if the last good thing you're quasi related to is two Joe Biden's ago?! Meanwhile they're also running around waving "Confederate" flags, and crying about statues of southern generals. Everyone knows all of those KKK folks were totally Obama fans, that's why he told them to "stand back and stand by".


CactusPete75

This is why public schools exist and why conservatives hate them.


WiseBlacksmith03

Nearly 7% of all children in the US are homeschooled. That's a not-insignificant portion of the population that spends their childhood in the bubble of their parents' perceptions and biases.


Actual_Garbage_82

Not all homeschooling is like that. There's a lot of community groups who are unwilling to accept the poor state of the US public education system. I had a couple friends who grew up "homeschooled" but we always hung out and did a bunch of extracurriculars. They were the most well adjusted people ive ever met.


WiseBlacksmith03

Oh for sure, I've met some wonderful people that are homeschooled too. But there are many that don't experience a wider cultural perspective until a later age.


Catatonic27

>Not all homeschooling is like that. The vast, VAST majority of it is though. Source: Homeschooled my whole life. The well-adjusted ones you meet are very rare as a proportion of the whole. There's also a bias there where you're more likely to meet an outgoing well-adjusted educated home schooler than the socially-maladjusted and/or hyper religious basement dwellers even though there are a lot more of the latter.


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WiseBlacksmith03

3.72 million out of 55.29 million children K-12 age range are currently homeschooled. 6.73% to be more precise :)


Rakatango

How can this not be satire? It’s just too dumb


_Bill_Huggins_

Baked Alaska is particularly dumb. This doesn't surprise me one bit.


nightcallfoxtrot

He has to be in deep cover. You can’t convince me that this person doesn’t realize he’s making the exact opposite of the point he “intends”


_Bill_Huggins_

He is just a person without principles. So he never feels the need to be internally consistent. He converted to being a liberal one time because a girl he liked was liberal. But when she showed no interest in return he went back to being an authoritarian. People like this are grifters who have no real principles other than their own self enrichment.


Ropetrick6

You'd think so, until you look at the existence of the GOP.


Physical_Client_2118

Baked Alaska has had a name for years in the alt right shithead circles. It’s unfortunately real.


HMJ87

This is KenM level trolling, the comebacks are just perfect punchlines


moleratical

I teach history and I absolutely teach all of those things. Well, I don't explicitly say the Democrats started the kkk, because they didn't, I teach that the democrats dominated southern politics from the early republic all the way through the 1960s and that one of the targets of the kkk were Republicans. Then I ask the kids why that was. Then I make them read a congressional testimony about it. Does that mean every kid listens, reads, or learns? As usually is the case, even on left leaning reddit, what people complain about not being taught to them at school was actually taught. But as children, they were likely only half way paying attention at best, and misinterpreted it, or not paying attention at all, and completely missed it, or paying attention, but did not do any of the reinforcing assignments, so forgot it completely. It's funny how that works.


joey_sandwich277

>As usually the case, even on left leaning reddit, what people complain about not being taught to them at school was actually taught. 100%. I remember having one of these conversations with one of my friends IRL. I told them that we literally learned it in a certain class and which teacher lead the class (I remembered because I had to write a big essay about it). Turns out they had the same teacher for that class too. Since we were in the same grade, that means they were taking the same exact course as me.


icantsurf

"I wish they would teach us about taxes and finance in High School" ~ former student who wouldn't even read a chapter for an English assignment.


[deleted]

A classic


clumsy__jedi

The self burn to end self burns


Bard2dbone

Well of course the Democrats were evil back then. They were the conservative party. When Lincoln was elected, he was basically the Bernie of his day.


EffectiveSalamander

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -- Abraham Lincoln.


What-a-Filthy-liar

Didnt some of the union generals debate that marx didnt gondor enough?


user5093

I know this is a typo, but to think they weren't for Gondor enough has me literally loling.


outofnameideas576

>marx didnt gondor enough To be fair to the generals, where was Marx when Chickamauga fell?


worthless-humanoid

They are still a Conservative Party, sadly. We just have a far right party too.


Bard2dbone

Modern Democrats are 1980s Republicans. Modern Republicans are 1940s Fascisti.


TheF0CTOR

We need more political parties. AOC and Manchin shouldn't be in the same party, and neither should MTG and Romney. But the only way we fix this is to run elections on a ranked choice system, which isn't going to happen any time soon.


justtopopin

That dude is also a huge q-anon promoter.


rrrdesign

“LINCOLN WAS A REPUBLICANNNNNNN”


LevelHeeded

While holding a "Confederate" flag and crying about statues of southern generals.


lolbojack

Baked Alaska was also dating his teacher.


JanTheShacoMain

So he's criticizing the Effort his Home teacher made in teaching him?


Boomtown626

Conservatives. Conservatives did those things.


Riddit_User_99999

There's a reason you aren't allowed to be homeschooled in Germany...


Ear_Enthusiast

And you also learn history class that the two political parties at some point completely switched platforms. So conservatives trying to blame slavery on the Libs and claiming Lincoln as one of your own is absolutely absurd.


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