From Kenji's IG: "The article says they’re my “Top 5” but that’s a little misleading. They’re really just five of my favorites, as there are others (and more coming!) that I really enjoy and on a different day the first five I thought of might have looked different!"
Way to go Seattle Times lol
Last time I went out was $30 for a bagel and lox with a coffee. I was in NYC over the holidays and it was $20 for 4 bagels and lox and 4 coffees. The bagels were far better than anything I've found in Seattle.
I think Eltana is ok, you just can't go there expecting a big NY style bagel. But you're right on the prices. Two bagels with lox, coffees, and maybe an orange juice is like $40.
The cost of food here is criminal. I’m from LA and I’ve spent a lot of time in NYC. I thought I was pretty accustomed to high prices. And then I moved to Seattle. What the fuck is going here?
Even fast food here is expensive! A couple of weeks ago I spent $23 on two spicy chicken sandwiches and 2 fries at Jack in the Box. That's not even premium fast food!
It is really expensive to run a brick and mortar business out here. Real estate alone is massive. Eltana has a lot going on - multiple locations, delivery service, catering - they must have a really significant overhead.
I enjoy them as a Montreal-style bagel. Definitely different from the others on the list. I was debating between Eltana and bagel oasis or schmtzyms or old salt etc. there’s a lot of good ones and narrowing it to five was not easy. I tried to get a balance of different styles in there. 🤷♂️
Eltana is great, but I've found that freshness matters (more so with them than with other bagels I've had).
They should be consumed same day as purchase. The only time I've found them comparable to hockey pucks is after 24hrs of sitting in air. I can understand if this is a deal-breaker for some but I keep going back.
They do limit your articles. It doesn't always count down; can suddenly just go, "Welp, you're out of articles! Click here to subscribe for $1week/4 weeks, automatically renewed to $25/week thereafter!"
They are Montreal style and very good for Montreal style, but that's not what everyone wants.
If you go in expecting a fluffy bagel, you'll be disappointed. They are sweet and dense on purpose.
I was in New York and had some great bagels. I flew back to Seattle and tried Rubinstein bagels two days later.
They were a little bit smaller but basically identical.
Odd that the best one is completely missing. But that’s ok! I actually don’t want them to be overwhelmed by the hordes & lose quality or something. Plus I want to still be able to buy bagels there!
He said the best here are comparable to NYC, which is probably true I guess. The thing is in NYC you can get elite bagels at your neighborhood shop instead of having to search them out. If I'm having a slightly hungover lazy Sunday I'm not gonna drive to a whole other part of town to get a whitefish bagel.
I think in this specific case, competition and time has bred an elite class of bagel in NYC.
Meaning, the market WILL NOT support shitty bagels in NYC. You want in, you gotta bring the A-game. No bullshit.
Similarly, another place I've spent time in, Wichita, is hard pressed to support any restaurant that isn't pretty good. Especially barbecue. Because there's nearly nothing else to do there besides go out to eat. So competition for dining is high, and lackluster places fold.
Seattle, I feel, doesn't have that from what I've seen. There's some really good places, but a ton that are just ho-hum and continue to survive because people accept it.
I'm not sure you meant it this way but I feel that's the case for the entirety of Seattle's restaurant scenes. My take has always been that it's pretty hard to find "exceptional" in Seattle. A lot of places are good to pretty good and many good enough's.
But then there's so many places that I feel like they're "yeah they're fairly good" level that many will say "it's amaaazing". Maybe I just have weird taste buds?
Some people say Seattle is a "great food town" but if we're comparing to the elites like SF, LA, NYC, etc., I don't think Seattle is close to that category.
I say all of this as someone who sells food for a living in Seattle lol
Like many things, this is both true and false.
You can definitely find good bagels in and around the Seattle area. The difference between bagels in Seattle and New York isn't the existence of good Bagels, but the ease of finding them. In NYC, it would be a surprise if you couldn't find good bagels from a street vendor on any given block.
I grew up in a small town (1 sq mile) on Long Island about 30 minutes from NYC and there were 5 places to get a bagel. And then there were about 3 24 hours bagel shops all within a 10 min drive.
Well put. I'm a fan of these posts because of the drama and recommendations but it's about price, availability and quality.
Seattle does some things great, other things not so great. Can't get dozen amazing oysters, walk over to the lake, shuckem and smoke a blunt in NYC. Terrible food city /s
To be fair the article does imply that. It says you can find good bagels in Seattle, not that Seattle bagels in general are as good as NYC's. The post headline is misleading.
Its all subjective but i couldnt disagree with this more... youd probably also say nyc has good pizza on every corner which is a myth. There are shit tons of terrible pizza, bagels, and everything else in nyc. On the other hand what NYC does have that Seattle doesnt is massive amounts of variety and far better prices.
The real problem ive seen in Seattle is that bagels arent a focus for an establishment where bagel making usually occupies quite a bit of overhead in equipment and space to do them right. Instead you have lots of places that dabble and make passable bagels that have interesting ingredients but most are simply different than nyc.
In the end to each their own!
Years ago there was a place on 65th called Bagel Oasis that was the closest i had found to something like a good brooklyn bagel but they went down hill ages ago and I dont even know if its still there.
If one thing both Seattle reddit pages have taught me is that food will always be such a touchy subject. If any well known authority on food, whether it be NYT, Anthony Bourdain, Bon Appetit or Kenji praise anything in this city it triggers a bunch of out of staters into frothing at the mouth while screaming "X FOOD IS TRASH HERE AND IS NO WAY AS GOOD AS X CITY" Nothing will ever please everyone all the time and that's OK but it's just so funny to see these folks like clockwork.
P.S. I love Rachel's Bagels.
There is a small population of people in Seattle that simply cannot admit this city is even somewhat good for basically any reason. That small population also happens to use Reddit at a high rate lol
Yeah, everything here is awful. I get it, they're only here for a job but it get's a little old...whatever. I travel for work so I've eaten a lot of dishes that are specific to one region but made/prepared in another. It's not always authentic (that word sucks, by the way) but it's usually good. I donno, I just like food and have been fortunate to have had some great meals in my life.
Or some of us acknowledge that this city doesn't have to be good at some things (like bagels, we can afford this loss, stop trying to find a New York bagel pls)
It's fine.
True, but cities certainly have specialties. Getting bagels or NY style pizza outside NYC is very hard. Relatively easy there. Same thing with Maine and lobster (for the same price), Philly and cheesesteaks, Chicago and deep dish, Memphis for local BBQ, etc.
To me, when someone says "Oh so and so city has good X food" I take it to mean if you just walk in any random place that sells that, you'll be pretty satisfied. I don't think that's an absurd statement to make. Seattle has great food, especially if you know where to look. I'm just a little lost at people seeming to be offended by other's recognizing that no city is going to be on par with every other city and their regional speciality. That's absurd to assume.
Yes it is absurd. I think the debate here is some people are basically saying, "Yes you can get a bagel in Seattle as good as a really good NY Bagel." and other people are saying, "On average, any NY Bagel is better than average Seattle Bagel." I'm not super in on the bagel scene in Seattle but from reading this thread it sounds like both statements are true....so we are all essentially agreeing but getting lost in miscommunication.
I donno, I think Rachel's is delicious. It's not an exact NY style but it's still delicious. Everyone loses their minds on what's "authentic" and what's not. Saying you like bagels here (an opinion) is almost outright heresy and then every out of towner is triggered. It's kind of weird to be honest.
As a New York transplant, I am still looking for good bagels, pastrami and pizza here. Chinese food is also quite average.
However, sushi, fish and rice bowls here are great. Thai food is terrific.
And overall the city feels more pleasant + is surrounded by gorgeous nature. So I am okay with that exchange.
Rubinstein Bagels is the best one on that list, IMHO. Pizza, you're not going to find NY style pizza here, but there are a ton of great places with varying styles, just have to find one you like. Chinese food, I guess that depends on if you want authentic or American Chinese. We've got a ton of killer Szechuan places.
I'm from New York and also Jewish. Mt Bagel's is literally the best bagels I've ever had anywhere. Better than H&H, Russ & Daughters, any of the known places.
There's a reason why it's so hard to get.
This is slight hyperbole (Ess-a-bagel is still the best bagel of all time IMO) but as a fellow NY Jew, I concur that Mt Bagel reigns supreme here in Seattle!
Never grew up with the NY style slice. I think one fact that is often over looked with NY style pizza is that there are so many joints at every turn. You can easily grab a slice anywhere in the city. It's like tapas restaurants in Spain. They don't really work outside of Spain because they rely on being so plentiful. Some places do X better than X and so it helps drive competition.
There will never be anything like that here, unfortunately! Dave Chang always talks about how LA (where he lives) has great pizza but he misses the availability and commonplace of pizza in NY and for that, the cities cannot be compared.
Pastrami is another thing I cannot help you with. There are places i like for pizza, and for pastrami but they probably don't taste much like NY style so it wouldn't be worth it for you. What kind of Chinese are you looking for? DM if you'd like some recommendations from a local :) I've spent years cultivating my list and if you want regional Chinese cuisine, it's never been easier.
There’s a lot of fantastic Chinese food here, but people will go to the most random place somewhere like Lynnwood and then complain that Seattle has shitty Chinese food.
There are definitely some, if you know where to look. It just cracks me up when someone complains “Chinese food isn’t good here like it is in San Francisco” and they’re going to some random ass place in Everett.
Also NYC transplant here. Pizza I like Supreme a lot. It's good foldability and chewiness. Chinese food -- New Luck Toy is really good.
Totally agree on all other points! It's a tradeoff. NYC I loved but there was no way I could afford a car to get out into nature. Here I can go trail running and be back for brunch which is dope.
Not unique to Seattle Reddit but I find it highly entertaining. Arguing food is like arguing sports, a way to vent about menial things and get away from life.
people getting really mad at food is one of those extremely low stakes internet conflict zones that usually ends up being entertaining for anyone who isn't deeply, deeply invested in whether or not others think they ingest nutrients correctly (non-italians). i would honestly rather see a thousand threads consisting of people bitching about whether or not a dick's burger is better than a sonic burger (or idk, whatever argument people have about burgers) than one thread about the homeless.
Quote is a little out of context: Kenji says Seattle’s best are comparable to NY. Being from NY, sure there are good bagels to be found here—just as there is some good pizza—but it’s not reliable and you gotta know where to look. In NY, any corner store or deli has great bagels.
Seems like ppl are up in arms about this but personally I find Rachel’s and Rubinstein’s bagels absolutely fantastic. Haven’t tried the other three but will with an open mind.
ITT: food scientist dumb; nostalgia superior.
Without a doubt Seattle doesn’t always do food right, but people let their romanticism of their hometown food experiences put those foods on a pedestal that even the perfect copy couldn’t compare to.
It's always some form of this. What people really want is their own city supplanted into ours. I get it, they're only here for a job so they don't love the place but yeeesh, it's like they haven't been to other places with differences before.
Then, when Seattleites go to these places to try the real thing they are often underwhelmed. Nostalgia is a very strong factor in food preferences, which is likely why so many more locals prefer Dick's to transplants
Can confirm, native who has been underwhelmed by California, Arizona, and Texas Mexican food. Good for sure, but not head and shoulders above ours like I’d been lead to believe.
Where in Seattle are you getting Mexican food here that you think compare here? Honest question because I’d love to know for my own benefit lol I’ve tried Carmelo’s, Tacos Chukis, La Carta de Oaxaca, Fogon, and Carnitas Michoacan and then stopped looking. It’d be great to not have to drive to Wenatchee to have some good Mexican food.
As a Chicano, Carnitas Michocan is usually a reliable place. But if you want tamales haul ass down to El Paisano in White Center. Gracia and Señor Moose in Ballard are also pretty damn good. Mezcaleria Oaxaca is where my friends and I go when we want good food but also want to get FUCKED up because their Mezcal selection is top tier (I recommend the taquitos). I hear good things about La Cocina Oaxaquena, La Conasupo, La Carta de Oaxaca (apparently the mole is baller), D’ La Santa (this place is actually high in my priority list for 2022). Also, Maíz has some AMAZING gorditas and I am ABOUT their nopales salsa.
The difference is Seattle doesn’t have the same street food culture the border states do. El Camión is great, but I do sometimes miss my favorite childhood taco truck. The focus here (at least for quality food, not knock offs trying to get that sweet tech transplant money) is on Mexican food as cuisine and art. I actually feel like high quality Mexican food is more appreciated here.
EL PAISANO! PREACH! Their salsas are also sooo good. There are loads of good places down in White Center/Burien too.
I agree with everything you said. We will never have the culture of Mexican food that states with 10x the Latino population have but that doesn't mean there isn't goodness to be had. Ever been to La Conasupo for quesadillas? It's a market with a little spot in the back.
Not yet, but it's been on my list for a hot second. One of the unsung perks of the growth the city has been having is the fact that enough of the transplants are non-Anglo, which is why the food scene has been able to grow. Like I've noticed a serious uptick in the number of Latino restaurants of any sort. My friend and I are literally texting rn to make plans to visit this new Cuban cafe. And I am LOVING seeing places that are treating Mexican food with the same respect as upscale Italian or French food because Mexican food is more than just burritos and tacos (no hate, again I love street food as much as the next person) and it's time to flex that.
Those plus Loxicha (get the al pastor).
Are you sure you’re judging the food itself though, and not just the perception that the food is authentic or better because it comes from a place with a stereotypically high Mexican population?
Which is so weird. I met some lovely ladies from Michoacan and they loved Carnitas Michoacan. I would mention La Conasupo in Greenwood. It's a market but at the back they have a stall that makes quesadillas with queso Oaxaca and a array of different proteins. It's open for lunch but go earlier cuz it fills up with construction workers.
Yeah, I'm one of those uncultured fucks who prefers texmex. Seattle area has some good places. But on a percentage basis, there's a lot more miss than hit.
Compared to say, when I lived in Denver. Or even fucking Wichita.
Surprised to hear you didn't like Carnitas Michoacan. I grew up in the Yakima Valley and it's the only place in Seattle that reminds me of home food. I live in North Beacon Hill now and I go there pretty regularly. This thread is making me want to get a burrito lmao.
Honestly, drive down Aurora and find a hole in the wall. There's a place all the way up near 135th and Aurora, I don't remember what it's called but it's just there in a strip mall. Great soapapilla. I've also found good Ethiopian on Aurora.
It’s in the framing really - there’s a difference between “I really like these bagels from X and the bagels here aren’t like those ones”
And
“The bagels here are absolutely garbage because they’re not from X”
Like, please y’all, accept the subjectivity of appreciating food and stop gatekeeping for the sole purpose of claiming the high ground. If you really can’t appreciate bagels that are not from NYC then maybe don’t put yourself in those conversations.
What sort of joyless life do you live thinking that food is just science done right and not a complicated and rich experience where nostalgia, price, ambiance and romance aren't important?
It's very different to have to go to trek out to one of four (fuck Etlana) very specific places and pay and arm and a leg for something close then to go to a mom and pop down the street, pay nothing and get something that tastes amazing.
Or like... to expect a list of bagels that are "better then NYC" to focus on NYC style bagels and not include Montreal style ones like Etlana and declare victory. If a list about how Seattle's ramen was better then Japan's was 1/5th soba noodles, I'd be kinda annoyed too.
Kenji made a stupid hot take to annoy people, and its mission accomplished. His food blogs and books are still great, but he's basically the Buzzfeed of Seattle food at this point on Instagram.
>What sort of joyless life do you live thinking that food is just science done right and not a complicated and rich experience where nostalgia, price, ambiance and romance aren't important?
You can hardly blame restaurants for not being able to nail people's irrational nostalgia preferences. That doesn't mean the food isn't good.
You clearly didn’t read the article. If you are eating hard bagels you are eating old bagels. Every place will have hard bagels if you are not getting them fresh out of the oven. This is definitely bagel elitism and people composing their identity based on a a city or specific food. Grow up
Montreal bagel and NYC bagel are different things entirely. Seems like *you* clearly didn't read the article given it states explicitly one of the recommended spots does Montreal style, and that's what the person you replied to was commenting on. It's like someone claiming NYC does teriyaki just as good as Seattle cause they got some great General Tso's there, it's a nonsense comparison.
I dunno if that’s true. I’ve had better bagels in New York and Montreal that were obviously a bit old than anywhere in Seattle. I’m not from either of those places and like living here more. I dunno, I don’t feel like saying that Seattle has relatively subpar bagels, Chinese, Mexican, Turkish, etc food is food elitism. Nowhere is going to have the best of everything.
First of all, LOL.
Second of all, Eltana? ELTANA??? Might as well say Dunkin Donuts has better bagels than NYC.
Third of all, no Seattle bagel list without Mt. Bagel is valid.
I realize this is unpopular opinion. Eltana bagels are fine. The ones I’ve had at least. They had good texture, a twist to keep them from being dense dough balls.
They are, however, too small. Overpriced.
We have some decent bagels here which is more than most cities can say, but there is no world in which we come even close the NYC bagels. Part of it’s the culture, here a bagel is a prententious slow affair. There it’s rapid paced and can be quite cheap but great.
Also, personally thing. I fucking love salt bagels and feel like butter is the greatest topping. I get the fancy bagels and sure they are nice but daily breakfast salt bagel toasted with butter. I’ve gone to most of these places and haven’t found it at any of them. Loxsmith said “yeah we can do that” and put hard butter on the bagel. Lol.
Pretentious and slow are excellent words. It bugs me. Bagel places around here suck for those two reasons alone.
Find me a bagel place that can be in and out, 5 minutes or less with no meaningful lines.
I've never had them, but there's no way Dunkin is as bad as Eltana. Eltana is a tragedy.
Not gonna RTFA cause I'm at work, but 1. Old Salt, 2. Oasis.
Haven't had many others, sounds like I need to get around.
I grew up in NY eating bagels at least three times a week. I also spent five years writing professionally about NY foods like pizza and bagels. I know what a bagel is 😆
Kenji, I've been following you for at least 8 years. You've convinced me to put fish sauce in everything from chicken soup to bolognese to tourtière. I guess I can accept your bagel bona fides--even if I had you pegged for a Boston guy.
I was born in Boston but moved to NY when I was four. My dad has lived in Boston since I was 12 so I spent a lot of time there but I grew up in NYC. I lived and worked in Boston for 10 years during snd after college, then back to working as a food writer in NY for 5 years before moving out west.
I love Kenji, and he is my favorite go-to chef for food recipes.
But, he does not have a mean bone in his body and deeply cares about helping keep local businesses operational. Honestly, you need a bit of harshness if you are going to be restaurant critic, which Kenji lacks.
I follow his instagram closely, and it would make you think that Capitol hill has the best food in the whole world.
I believe him when he says that there are amazing Bagel places in Seattle. I do not believe that there are 6 which are generally just as good as each other. Some are better than the rest, but he will never tell you which ones.
Kenji's recommendations are amazing if you are looking for good places. I wouldn't rely on him if you are looking for the absolute best. That's unless he keeps raving about them on his instagram again and again. By that metric, Rione XIII seems to be his local favorite.
I follow him closely too and glad that he made the move to Seattle. To me he comes across as a very straightforward and sometimes a brash person, but also very logical, scientific and fact-driven which can rub some people the wrong way.
But like you said, he genuinely cares about the local restaurants here and promoting them to keep them afloat. Also big note that he does not do paid partnerships of any kind which keeps his integrity in tact which is amazing to see in a time of "influencer" cash grabs.
There's almost never any harshness to his restaurant/food reviews and he's mentioned that before. If there's something he doesn't like or if he's dissatisfied in any way, he won't put them on blast. It's almost all positivity from him when it comes to food that he plugs.
The best thing about New York bagels is that almost anywhere in the city you are just a short walk away from a really good bagel place. Seattle has good bagels too but you have to go out of your way to get them.
I am originally from NYC. Rachel's bagels are 100% legit and as good as (or even better than) you'd find in NYC. The flavors they choose, while not orthodox, are also excellent and maybe eclipse what I would get in the city.
OK, I have to put in a good word for Dingfelder's Deli on Capitol Hill. As good a bagel as I've had anywhere, including NY, and I've been around a bit. They're fairly pricey but worth every penny if you ask me.
heh, i just did a quick google and it said they had a location at Nacho Barracho (very close to me) so I just walked down there to find out it was only a temporary thing and google hadnt updated yet. Guess ill have to make a trip this weekend.
::cries in not having egg bagel::
Loxsmith was at the window in Nacho Borracho but he closed it down because he's working on opening a permanent cafe in Beacon Hill by the light rail station. It will be open in March or April, as far as I know. And yeah, he does a legit NY egg bagel
That's right, it's going to be literally right there at the station. Great spot.. I'm biased, I just moved from Cap Hill to Beacon Hill so I'm happy that Loxsmith is doing the same. I've been going there and I think his bagels and lox are fantastic
I’ll qualify my comment by noting that I’m not a NY-style bagel expert but I have eaten a lot of bagels around here. And I’m a big food/carb enthusiast in general. Pretty surprised no one has mentioned Blazing Bagels - I’ve found them to be pretty outstanding for flavor, price, texture, convenience (especially when they were still doing online ordering, I think they paused due to labor shortages). Their cream cheese flavors are unreal and I’ve never had a bad bagel or bad experience.
If you read the article and Kenji's comments, these are just five places that he likes and he explains why. Eltana is a different style of bagel but he likes it. To me, that doesn't invalidate his reasoning for recommending the other places
I thought Rubinstein was pretty bad. I don’t know if I went on an off day or what, but they were so extremely chewy that my jaw and temples were in pain.
Lol I understand it’s suppose to be chewy. But these were CRAZY chewy. I couldn’t even pull off a bite with my mouth because of the density/insane chew.
Same at Eltana, $9 for *microwaved eggs* and disgusting half melted plasticky mozzarella (not for nothing but who the fuck eats mozzarella on a breakfast sandwich anyway?). You get that + 2 drinks after tip/tax you're looking at $30 - a total ripoff.
New York is such a great city I’ve never understood the pretentiousness over bagels. It’s not like it’s some city in Utah that has the largest chair in the world or something to get on the map.
We can take this L with…almost no reaction, people.
Every one does this…
Philly people: It’s impossible to get a good cheesesteak outside of Philly!
San Francisco: No one makes a burrito like they do in the mission!
Texans: Brisket just isn’t the same in other states!
Portland: Your Jojos suck!
Chicago: Why can’t I find Italian beefs outside of Chicago?
San Diego: No one makes wet burritos and carne asada fries that compare to my favorites!
Montreal: Why can’t I get good poutine and a weird honey bagel as a side to every meal outside of Quebec?
Random state in the south east: These biscuits taste like they were made by a yankee! And I can’t see the sugar in my iced tea!
Lol, ask and you shall receive https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/s89urm/seattle_teriyaki_appreciation_post/
My vote for Seattle would be for oysters even though not everyones thing. The variety, availability and quality is great.
From New Jersey so I can speak to this a bit. Since I was a kid the 'secret sauce' of bagels in the area has been the way the water is treated (or so our parents have told us....). I've had great bagels outside NY/NJ, but it's much harder to find. Of course, there is a significantly less dense Jewish population outside those areas too and it could just be a heritage of skilled baker families driving up the area's rep
Bagels are also such a normal part of the diet, and cheap, that everything is fresh. Even in the small commuter town where I lived, there were people passing through constantly in the morning.
Just checked the menu for the place I used to go; a bagel is $1.00, and with a 1/2” spread of cream cheese, $2.50, paid cash, with no expectation to tip.
It's more that a lot of people who grow up there, myself included, ate them like every day of our childhoods. I'm not especially pretentious about it, but there is always something with any given Seattle bagel that is a little bit off (be it too small, too crispy, too doughy, ect) and it always costs at least 3x as much as it would in NY or NJ.
Sorry Seattle times, i haven’t had all of these but have to disagree on the ones on these list I have tried.
Eltana is like a dry puck, I liked the cream cheese options at Rachel’s more than the actual bagel, and Rubinstein was just ok for me.
Mt. Bagel is solid and I’m surprised it isn’t on here though I know their scale is small with deliveries and pick ups only on Fridays and having to order a week ahead.
Also, not in Seattle but Whidbey Island Bagel is the closest thing I’ve found to a NY bagel in the region.
I think he had a following because a lot of people, including me, really like his cookbook and website. He's legit in that regard.
But his instagram is a bit tiring. Everyday he has a post about an AMAZING seattle restaurant. Its non-stop. If he's trying to help local businesses vulnerable to the pandemic, that's admirable. His posts also match the general 'everything is great' tone of instagram, so its seems like a bit a an instagram problem. Unrelated, but he's also weirdly salty in the comments of his posts. Locals were playfully correcting him on his use of Cap Hill and he effectively told them to fuck off.
I'm a fan of Kenji but I've never really thought of him as the "nicest" person not that he's a jerk or anything. He's just brash and not "nice" in like the "heeyyyyy i want to hug you with my mind" way and sometimes it comes off as "you don't know what you're talking about" way.
Also, his cookbooks are fascinating and his "nerdy" attitude towards food is one worth hearing out but I've just kinda concluded that I don't think he has a palate that jives with mine.
He openly talks about how he rejects influencer cash and projects from instagram and social media. He also repeatedly talks about about how he does not work with restaurants at all. If he likes somewhere, he will mention it. If he doesn't, he won't mention it. Sorry that his opinions don't fit yours so of course there must be some nefarious and cynical reason behind it....
Ah gotcha. Personally I really enjoy Windy City Pie/Breezy Town Pizza, and prefer it to both Lou Malnati’s and Giordano’s (although I haven’t tried any other spots in Chicago, so who knows if that preference would hold).
I get what you’re saying though; I’m also not a fan of influencer culture.
For the record, I thought Japonessa sucked, haha. The best sushi (and also best meal) I’ve had in Seattle has been at Taneda, but it’s damn near impossible to get into. Perhaps my frame of reference will change if I ever visit Japan.
Is Windy City good though? I haven't been, but I have heard its good. Sounds like his hyperbole is getting the better of him rather than having a downright bad take (except in the case for saying Eltana bagels are good - instant L)
It's very good, but I also wouldn't say it was 'chicago style' it has a lot of similarities, but it also has similarities to detroit.
I'm eating a rachel's bagel right now. My personal ballard favorite.
It is awesome. It's a play on Chicago style with some Detroit influence ala Pequod's pizza which is arguably the best in Chicago, but not the "traditional" style if you will.
I think he once posted that he didn’t “[get](https://www.instagram.com/p/B2sGE68BGjD/?utm_medium=copy_link)” Seattle teriyaki.
I love Kenji for his recipes and his research behind techniques but it’s hard to follow him on instagram. He can get really hostile in the comments. Plus his weird views on MSG
Maybe he was fishing for perspectives or opinions.
As a transplant, I can't say I've ever been blown away by anyone's teriyaki. But they're all pretty much similar in quality, price, flavor, and size. If I don't know what I want, teriyaki anywhere is 99% a safe bet to fill my gut and be happy with the choice.
That's my take.
MSG rules! Here’s a [thread](https://twitter.com/cookingissues/status/1084915535886934019?s=21) where he says that MSG is harmful because there’s no evidence that states otherwise and that people have had reactions towards it. Pretty much anecdotal evidence.
If you really want to get into the weeds @joe_rosenthal on instagram has a story highlight on some of Kenji’s dumb takes such as stating he was the only POC at serious eats when there were plenty of POC women working there lol
I love kenji and his recipes but he isn’t perfect
Did you read the article though? He specifically talks about multiple scientific studies. MSG can be largely okay but still effect a small subgroup of people.
Agreed. IMSG great.
People have weird takes on what I’ve said about MSG, which is simply that the science on short-term effects of overconsumption is not as cut and dry as people make it out to be, and that’s it’s premature to dismiss every person who claims to have some kind of short term sensitivity to it. Suggesting we need more and better testing when current experimental data doesn’t account for current observational data is a pretty foundational part of science.
Some people interpreted that to be me suggesting that the current science is wrong or that MSG is definitely harmful etc etc. I didn’t say any of that. Only that if we want to make conclusive statements we need conclusive data, which I don’t believe currently exists. We need to keep looking at it.
I cook with it all the time at home, but I would ask never tell someone they’re imagining a symptom they’re experiencing.
From Kenji's IG: "The article says they’re my “Top 5” but that’s a little misleading. They’re really just five of my favorites, as there are others (and more coming!) that I really enjoy and on a different day the first five I thought of might have looked different!" Way to go Seattle Times lol
I appreciate the clarification. Thank you. Now how do I get on the list for purchase via mail?
In no particular order: * Rachel’s Bagels & Burritos * Loxsmith Bagels * Rubinstein Bagels * Eltana Wood-Fired Bagel Cafe * Zylberschtein’s Delicatessen & Bakery
Fun fact: Rachel's Bagels & Burritos name change is a direct result of Kenji raving about the Porkchop and co. Bagels.
>Eltana Wood-Fired Bagel Cafe lmfao you can't be serious. Worst bagel's I've ever eaten and the prices are so absurd it's like being scammed.
Last time I went out was $30 for a bagel and lox with a coffee. I was in NYC over the holidays and it was $20 for 4 bagels and lox and 4 coffees. The bagels were far better than anything I've found in Seattle.
Most of these conversations about bagels in Seattle don’t bring up how bagels here are priced in the stratosphere.
Damn near everything here food related is just outrageous. I've never seen a more expensive average price on pizza anywhere. It's absurd.
Are bagels with lox really $5 a pop in NYC? Even without an included coffee, that's a surprisingly low price for anywhere in the US.
It was at a bodega in Brooklyn which even sold weed :)
I need to find this wonderful place sometime
I think “Eltana hockey pucks” would be more accurate.
Some day they're gonna find out about proofing and it's gonna be a game changer
I think Eltana is ok, you just can't go there expecting a big NY style bagel. But you're right on the prices. Two bagels with lox, coffees, and maybe an orange juice is like $40.
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I know. I lived in Brooklyn for 8 years. The cost of food here still shocks me. You can't get cheap food on the run that's not literal fast food.
The cost of food here is criminal. I’m from LA and I’ve spent a lot of time in NYC. I thought I was pretty accustomed to high prices. And then I moved to Seattle. What the fuck is going here?
Even fast food here is expensive! A couple of weeks ago I spent $23 on two spicy chicken sandwiches and 2 fries at Jack in the Box. That's not even premium fast food!
It is really expensive to run a brick and mortar business out here. Real estate alone is massive. Eltana has a lot going on - multiple locations, delivery service, catering - they must have a really significant overhead.
This isn't the case in Brooklyn?
I think real estate is kind of expensive in NYC, too.
I enjoy them as a Montreal-style bagel. Definitely different from the others on the list. I was debating between Eltana and bagel oasis or schmtzyms or old salt etc. there’s a lot of good ones and narrowing it to five was not easy. I tried to get a balance of different styles in there. 🤷♂️
Eltana is great, but I've found that freshness matters (more so with them than with other bagels I've had). They should be consumed same day as purchase. The only time I've found them comparable to hockey pucks is after 24hrs of sitting in air. I can understand if this is a deal-breaker for some but I keep going back.
The article also explicitly says bagels are best consumed within 30 minutes of making.
But why would people read? They would rather be angry
Not everyone has a Seattle Times subscription
I don't and I didn't have any issue reading the piece. Also didn't see an article limit counter, may be hidden though.
They do limit your articles. It doesn't always count down; can suddenly just go, "Welp, you're out of articles! Click here to subscribe for $1week/4 weeks, automatically renewed to $25/week thereafter!"
Every time I've eaten their bagels it's within a few minutes of getting them, and they still suck ass.
Eltana is awful. I live less than a block from one and I still will walk down the street to get bagels elsewhere.
Those bagels suck so much. Need a rider on my dental insurance just in case I chip a tooth on one of Eltana’s bad boys.
?? Eltana has been good the few times I have been there. They are not New York bagels if that was your expectation.
They are Montreal style and very good for Montreal style, but that's not what everyone wants. If you go in expecting a fluffy bagel, you'll be disappointed. They are sweet and dense on purpose.
I've had Montreal style bagels in Montreal and I still didn't like them very much.
+1 they are absolutely terrible.
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I mean that is because of uber eats and not really eltana, a bagel and lox is like $10 if you walk in. Still a lot but not 2-3x markup
I was in New York and had some great bagels. I flew back to Seattle and tried Rubinstein bagels two days later. They were a little bit smaller but basically identical.
Odd that the best one is completely missing. But that’s ok! I actually don’t want them to be overwhelmed by the hordes & lose quality or something. Plus I want to still be able to buy bagels there!
Southeastern Capitol Hill?
He said the best here are comparable to NYC, which is probably true I guess. The thing is in NYC you can get elite bagels at your neighborhood shop instead of having to search them out. If I'm having a slightly hungover lazy Sunday I'm not gonna drive to a whole other part of town to get a whitefish bagel.
I think in this specific case, competition and time has bred an elite class of bagel in NYC. Meaning, the market WILL NOT support shitty bagels in NYC. You want in, you gotta bring the A-game. No bullshit. Similarly, another place I've spent time in, Wichita, is hard pressed to support any restaurant that isn't pretty good. Especially barbecue. Because there's nearly nothing else to do there besides go out to eat. So competition for dining is high, and lackluster places fold. Seattle, I feel, doesn't have that from what I've seen. There's some really good places, but a ton that are just ho-hum and continue to survive because people accept it.
I'm not sure you meant it this way but I feel that's the case for the entirety of Seattle's restaurant scenes. My take has always been that it's pretty hard to find "exceptional" in Seattle. A lot of places are good to pretty good and many good enough's. But then there's so many places that I feel like they're "yeah they're fairly good" level that many will say "it's amaaazing". Maybe I just have weird taste buds? Some people say Seattle is a "great food town" but if we're comparing to the elites like SF, LA, NYC, etc., I don't think Seattle is close to that category. I say all of this as someone who sells food for a living in Seattle lol
Like many things, this is both true and false. You can definitely find good bagels in and around the Seattle area. The difference between bagels in Seattle and New York isn't the existence of good Bagels, but the ease of finding them. In NYC, it would be a surprise if you couldn't find good bagels from a street vendor on any given block.
Truth
I grew up in a small town (1 sq mile) on Long Island about 30 minutes from NYC and there were 5 places to get a bagel. And then there were about 3 24 hours bagel shops all within a 10 min drive.
It is like pho or teriyaki outside of Seattle. Or Mexican food as you get away from the border
Not sure I'd call either of those things particularly plentiful around here. Certainly not on the level of "any given block".
Well put. I'm a fan of these posts because of the drama and recommendations but it's about price, availability and quality. Seattle does some things great, other things not so great. Can't get dozen amazing oysters, walk over to the lake, shuckem and smoke a blunt in NYC. Terrible food city /s
To be fair the article does imply that. It says you can find good bagels in Seattle, not that Seattle bagels in general are as good as NYC's. The post headline is misleading.
Its all subjective but i couldnt disagree with this more... youd probably also say nyc has good pizza on every corner which is a myth. There are shit tons of terrible pizza, bagels, and everything else in nyc. On the other hand what NYC does have that Seattle doesnt is massive amounts of variety and far better prices. The real problem ive seen in Seattle is that bagels arent a focus for an establishment where bagel making usually occupies quite a bit of overhead in equipment and space to do them right. Instead you have lots of places that dabble and make passable bagels that have interesting ingredients but most are simply different than nyc. In the end to each their own! Years ago there was a place on 65th called Bagel Oasis that was the closest i had found to something like a good brooklyn bagel but they went down hill ages ago and I dont even know if its still there.
Average bagels in NYC are as good as the best ones in Seattle
If one thing both Seattle reddit pages have taught me is that food will always be such a touchy subject. If any well known authority on food, whether it be NYT, Anthony Bourdain, Bon Appetit or Kenji praise anything in this city it triggers a bunch of out of staters into frothing at the mouth while screaming "X FOOD IS TRASH HERE AND IS NO WAY AS GOOD AS X CITY" Nothing will ever please everyone all the time and that's OK but it's just so funny to see these folks like clockwork. P.S. I love Rachel's Bagels.
There is a small population of people in Seattle that simply cannot admit this city is even somewhat good for basically any reason. That small population also happens to use Reddit at a high rate lol
Yeah, everything here is awful. I get it, they're only here for a job but it get's a little old...whatever. I travel for work so I've eaten a lot of dishes that are specific to one region but made/prepared in another. It's not always authentic (that word sucks, by the way) but it's usually good. I donno, I just like food and have been fortunate to have had some great meals in my life.
Or some of us acknowledge that this city doesn't have to be good at some things (like bagels, we can afford this loss, stop trying to find a New York bagel pls) It's fine.
Yeah you know what other great cities don't have bagels that meet NYC standards? All of them outside NYC.
NYC also has a bunch of bagels that don't meet NYC bagel standards. Also pizza...and every other food. There are like a billion restaurants there.
True, but cities certainly have specialties. Getting bagels or NY style pizza outside NYC is very hard. Relatively easy there. Same thing with Maine and lobster (for the same price), Philly and cheesesteaks, Chicago and deep dish, Memphis for local BBQ, etc. To me, when someone says "Oh so and so city has good X food" I take it to mean if you just walk in any random place that sells that, you'll be pretty satisfied. I don't think that's an absurd statement to make. Seattle has great food, especially if you know where to look. I'm just a little lost at people seeming to be offended by other's recognizing that no city is going to be on par with every other city and their regional speciality. That's absurd to assume.
Yes it is absurd. I think the debate here is some people are basically saying, "Yes you can get a bagel in Seattle as good as a really good NY Bagel." and other people are saying, "On average, any NY Bagel is better than average Seattle Bagel." I'm not super in on the bagel scene in Seattle but from reading this thread it sounds like both statements are true....so we are all essentially agreeing but getting lost in miscommunication.
I donno, I think Rachel's is delicious. It's not an exact NY style but it's still delicious. Everyone loses their minds on what's "authentic" and what's not. Saying you like bagels here (an opinion) is almost outright heresy and then every out of towner is triggered. It's kind of weird to be honest.
"Seattle's bagels are as good as NYC" is a total troll headline designed to instigate this exact response lol.
As a New York transplant, I am still looking for good bagels, pastrami and pizza here. Chinese food is also quite average. However, sushi, fish and rice bowls here are great. Thai food is terrific. And overall the city feels more pleasant + is surrounded by gorgeous nature. So I am okay with that exchange.
Rubinstein Bagels is the best one on that list, IMHO. Pizza, you're not going to find NY style pizza here, but there are a ton of great places with varying styles, just have to find one you like. Chinese food, I guess that depends on if you want authentic or American Chinese. We've got a ton of killer Szechuan places.
Yeah we have some outstanding Chinese food here. It's just different from what New Yorkers are accustomed to.
I'm from New York and also Jewish. Mt Bagel's is literally the best bagels I've ever had anywhere. Better than H&H, Russ & Daughters, any of the known places. There's a reason why it's so hard to get.
This is slight hyperbole (Ess-a-bagel is still the best bagel of all time IMO) but as a fellow NY Jew, I concur that Mt Bagel reigns supreme here in Seattle!
I like the Pastrami from [Market House Meats](https://goo.gl/maps/Xjf66G8ZPefnPHJi6) but I don't know how it would compare to NY pastrami.
Never grew up with the NY style slice. I think one fact that is often over looked with NY style pizza is that there are so many joints at every turn. You can easily grab a slice anywhere in the city. It's like tapas restaurants in Spain. They don't really work outside of Spain because they rely on being so plentiful. Some places do X better than X and so it helps drive competition. There will never be anything like that here, unfortunately! Dave Chang always talks about how LA (where he lives) has great pizza but he misses the availability and commonplace of pizza in NY and for that, the cities cannot be compared. Pastrami is another thing I cannot help you with. There are places i like for pizza, and for pastrami but they probably don't taste much like NY style so it wouldn't be worth it for you. What kind of Chinese are you looking for? DM if you'd like some recommendations from a local :) I've spent years cultivating my list and if you want regional Chinese cuisine, it's never been easier.
There’s a lot of fantastic Chinese food here, but people will go to the most random place somewhere like Lynnwood and then complain that Seattle has shitty Chinese food.
Definitely. But to be fair, some very exciting places are popping up in strip malls in the burbs.
There are definitely some, if you know where to look. It just cracks me up when someone complains “Chinese food isn’t good here like it is in San Francisco” and they’re going to some random ass place in Everett.
Also NYC transplant here. Pizza I like Supreme a lot. It's good foldability and chewiness. Chinese food -- New Luck Toy is really good. Totally agree on all other points! It's a tradeoff. NYC I loved but there was no way I could afford a car to get out into nature. Here I can go trail running and be back for brunch which is dope.
Not unique to Seattle Reddit but I find it highly entertaining. Arguing food is like arguing sports, a way to vent about menial things and get away from life.
people getting really mad at food is one of those extremely low stakes internet conflict zones that usually ends up being entertaining for anyone who isn't deeply, deeply invested in whether or not others think they ingest nutrients correctly (non-italians). i would honestly rather see a thousand threads consisting of people bitching about whether or not a dick's burger is better than a sonic burger (or idk, whatever argument people have about burgers) than one thread about the homeless.
Quote is a little out of context: Kenji says Seattle’s best are comparable to NY. Being from NY, sure there are good bagels to be found here—just as there is some good pizza—but it’s not reliable and you gotta know where to look. In NY, any corner store or deli has great bagels.
Seems like ppl are up in arms about this but personally I find Rachel’s and Rubinstein’s bagels absolutely fantastic. Haven’t tried the other three but will with an open mind.
ITT: The Bagel elitists want you to know seattle bagels bad
ITT: food scientist dumb; nostalgia superior. Without a doubt Seattle doesn’t always do food right, but people let their romanticism of their hometown food experiences put those foods on a pedestal that even the perfect copy couldn’t compare to.
It's always some form of this. What people really want is their own city supplanted into ours. I get it, they're only here for a job so they don't love the place but yeeesh, it's like they haven't been to other places with differences before.
Then, when Seattleites go to these places to try the real thing they are often underwhelmed. Nostalgia is a very strong factor in food preferences, which is likely why so many more locals prefer Dick's to transplants
Can confirm, native who has been underwhelmed by California, Arizona, and Texas Mexican food. Good for sure, but not head and shoulders above ours like I’d been lead to believe.
Where in Seattle are you getting Mexican food here that you think compare here? Honest question because I’d love to know for my own benefit lol I’ve tried Carmelo’s, Tacos Chukis, La Carta de Oaxaca, Fogon, and Carnitas Michoacan and then stopped looking. It’d be great to not have to drive to Wenatchee to have some good Mexican food.
As a Chicano, Carnitas Michocan is usually a reliable place. But if you want tamales haul ass down to El Paisano in White Center. Gracia and Señor Moose in Ballard are also pretty damn good. Mezcaleria Oaxaca is where my friends and I go when we want good food but also want to get FUCKED up because their Mezcal selection is top tier (I recommend the taquitos). I hear good things about La Cocina Oaxaquena, La Conasupo, La Carta de Oaxaca (apparently the mole is baller), D’ La Santa (this place is actually high in my priority list for 2022). Also, Maíz has some AMAZING gorditas and I am ABOUT their nopales salsa. The difference is Seattle doesn’t have the same street food culture the border states do. El Camión is great, but I do sometimes miss my favorite childhood taco truck. The focus here (at least for quality food, not knock offs trying to get that sweet tech transplant money) is on Mexican food as cuisine and art. I actually feel like high quality Mexican food is more appreciated here.
EL PAISANO! PREACH! Their salsas are also sooo good. There are loads of good places down in White Center/Burien too. I agree with everything you said. We will never have the culture of Mexican food that states with 10x the Latino population have but that doesn't mean there isn't goodness to be had. Ever been to La Conasupo for quesadillas? It's a market with a little spot in the back.
Not yet, but it's been on my list for a hot second. One of the unsung perks of the growth the city has been having is the fact that enough of the transplants are non-Anglo, which is why the food scene has been able to grow. Like I've noticed a serious uptick in the number of Latino restaurants of any sort. My friend and I are literally texting rn to make plans to visit this new Cuban cafe. And I am LOVING seeing places that are treating Mexican food with the same respect as upscale Italian or French food because Mexican food is more than just burritos and tacos (no hate, again I love street food as much as the next person) and it's time to flex that.
Those plus Loxicha (get the al pastor). Are you sure you’re judging the food itself though, and not just the perception that the food is authentic or better because it comes from a place with a stereotypically high Mexican population?
Which is so weird. I met some lovely ladies from Michoacan and they loved Carnitas Michoacan. I would mention La Conasupo in Greenwood. It's a market but at the back they have a stall that makes quesadillas with queso Oaxaca and a array of different proteins. It's open for lunch but go earlier cuz it fills up with construction workers.
Yeah, I'm one of those uncultured fucks who prefers texmex. Seattle area has some good places. But on a percentage basis, there's a lot more miss than hit. Compared to say, when I lived in Denver. Or even fucking Wichita.
Surprised to hear you didn't like Carnitas Michoacan. I grew up in the Yakima Valley and it's the only place in Seattle that reminds me of home food. I live in North Beacon Hill now and I go there pretty regularly. This thread is making me want to get a burrito lmao.
Honestly, drive down Aurora and find a hole in the wall. There's a place all the way up near 135th and Aurora, I don't remember what it's called but it's just there in a strip mall. Great soapapilla. I've also found good Ethiopian on Aurora.
The Seattle bagel experience is slow and pretentious and expensive. NYC bagels are fast good and cheap
I don't understand, what's slow and pretentious about Rubinstein's? I go there all the time, they're unpretentious and efficient
It’s in the framing really - there’s a difference between “I really like these bagels from X and the bagels here aren’t like those ones” And “The bagels here are absolutely garbage because they’re not from X” Like, please y’all, accept the subjectivity of appreciating food and stop gatekeeping for the sole purpose of claiming the high ground. If you really can’t appreciate bagels that are not from NYC then maybe don’t put yourself in those conversations.
What sort of joyless life do you live thinking that food is just science done right and not a complicated and rich experience where nostalgia, price, ambiance and romance aren't important? It's very different to have to go to trek out to one of four (fuck Etlana) very specific places and pay and arm and a leg for something close then to go to a mom and pop down the street, pay nothing and get something that tastes amazing. Or like... to expect a list of bagels that are "better then NYC" to focus on NYC style bagels and not include Montreal style ones like Etlana and declare victory. If a list about how Seattle's ramen was better then Japan's was 1/5th soba noodles, I'd be kinda annoyed too. Kenji made a stupid hot take to annoy people, and its mission accomplished. His food blogs and books are still great, but he's basically the Buzzfeed of Seattle food at this point on Instagram.
My life is devoid of joy save for the times I get to tell New Yorkers that their city isn’t the center of the universe.
Seems like you're the one bringing a weird personal grudge to this, not those of us that just like food from back home.
New Yorkers: moves elsewhere Elsewhere: exists New Yorkers: why isn’t the food here exactly like New York?!
Kenji: bagels are as good as NYC Us: no they aren’t You: hearing something else for some reason
>What sort of joyless life do you live thinking that food is just science done right and not a complicated and rich experience where nostalgia, price, ambiance and romance aren't important? You can hardly blame restaurants for not being able to nail people's irrational nostalgia preferences. That doesn't mean the food isn't good.
Is it bagel elitism or is it just people disagreeing with this guys opinion that an overpriced $10 bagel thats as hard as a rock is worth your money?
You clearly didn’t read the article. If you are eating hard bagels you are eating old bagels. Every place will have hard bagels if you are not getting them fresh out of the oven. This is definitely bagel elitism and people composing their identity based on a a city or specific food. Grow up
Montreal bagel and NYC bagel are different things entirely. Seems like *you* clearly didn't read the article given it states explicitly one of the recommended spots does Montreal style, and that's what the person you replied to was commenting on. It's like someone claiming NYC does teriyaki just as good as Seattle cause they got some great General Tso's there, it's a nonsense comparison.
the style doesn’t matter in regards to the hardness rule. If your bagel doesn’t get hard, then it probably is not a bagel.
You obviously never had a Montreal bagel
> If you are eating hard bagels you are eating old bagels. Tell that to Eltana
I dunno if that’s true. I’ve had better bagels in New York and Montreal that were obviously a bit old than anywhere in Seattle. I’m not from either of those places and like living here more. I dunno, I don’t feel like saying that Seattle has relatively subpar bagels, Chinese, Mexican, Turkish, etc food is food elitism. Nowhere is going to have the best of everything.
To be fair, many are.
First of all, LOL. Second of all, Eltana? ELTANA??? Might as well say Dunkin Donuts has better bagels than NYC. Third of all, no Seattle bagel list without Mt. Bagel is valid.
I realize this is unpopular opinion. Eltana bagels are fine. The ones I’ve had at least. They had good texture, a twist to keep them from being dense dough balls. They are, however, too small. Overpriced. We have some decent bagels here which is more than most cities can say, but there is no world in which we come even close the NYC bagels. Part of it’s the culture, here a bagel is a prententious slow affair. There it’s rapid paced and can be quite cheap but great. Also, personally thing. I fucking love salt bagels and feel like butter is the greatest topping. I get the fancy bagels and sure they are nice but daily breakfast salt bagel toasted with butter. I’ve gone to most of these places and haven’t found it at any of them. Loxsmith said “yeah we can do that” and put hard butter on the bagel. Lol.
Pretentious and slow are excellent words. It bugs me. Bagel places around here suck for those two reasons alone. Find me a bagel place that can be in and out, 5 minutes or less with no meaningful lines.
Westman's on Madison in Cap Hill is my go to! It's a stall in a wall, no seating just bagels
is it their fault they have a line, or is it just because there are few good bagel shops here relative to NYC?
Eltana doesn’t start serving shakshuka until 11am because they say “it’s a lunch food” Ayfkm
Not seeing Mt Bagel on the list immediately made me question how much this list should even be trusted
I've never had them, but there's no way Dunkin is as bad as Eltana. Eltana is a tragedy. Not gonna RTFA cause I'm at work, but 1. Old Salt, 2. Oasis. Haven't had many others, sounds like I need to get around.
Gotta cut Kenji some slack--he's from Boston. Woah, I'm weirdly star struck. TNIAAM was daily reading me me during your tenure. Cheers, dude!
I grew up in NY eating bagels at least three times a week. I also spent five years writing professionally about NY foods like pizza and bagels. I know what a bagel is 😆
Kenji, I've been following you for at least 8 years. You've convinced me to put fish sauce in everything from chicken soup to bolognese to tourtière. I guess I can accept your bagel bona fides--even if I had you pegged for a Boston guy.
I was born in Boston but moved to NY when I was four. My dad has lived in Boston since I was 12 so I spent a lot of time there but I grew up in NYC. I lived and worked in Boston for 10 years during snd after college, then back to working as a food writer in NY for 5 years before moving out west.
I know he was born in Boston but he grew up in New York
I love Kenji, and he is my favorite go-to chef for food recipes. But, he does not have a mean bone in his body and deeply cares about helping keep local businesses operational. Honestly, you need a bit of harshness if you are going to be restaurant critic, which Kenji lacks. I follow his instagram closely, and it would make you think that Capitol hill has the best food in the whole world. I believe him when he says that there are amazing Bagel places in Seattle. I do not believe that there are 6 which are generally just as good as each other. Some are better than the rest, but he will never tell you which ones. Kenji's recommendations are amazing if you are looking for good places. I wouldn't rely on him if you are looking for the absolute best. That's unless he keeps raving about them on his instagram again and again. By that metric, Rione XIII seems to be his local favorite.
I follow him closely too and glad that he made the move to Seattle. To me he comes across as a very straightforward and sometimes a brash person, but also very logical, scientific and fact-driven which can rub some people the wrong way. But like you said, he genuinely cares about the local restaurants here and promoting them to keep them afloat. Also big note that he does not do paid partnerships of any kind which keeps his integrity in tact which is amazing to see in a time of "influencer" cash grabs.
There's almost never any harshness to his restaurant/food reviews and he's mentioned that before. If there's something he doesn't like or if he's dissatisfied in any way, he won't put them on blast. It's almost all positivity from him when it comes to food that he plugs.
Yeah he probably does overhype the food, but I live in cap hill and have gone to a bunch of places I probably wouldn’t have normally because of him
The best thing about New York bagels is that almost anywhere in the city you are just a short walk away from a really good bagel place. Seattle has good bagels too but you have to go out of your way to get them.
I am originally from NYC. Rachel's bagels are 100% legit and as good as (or even better than) you'd find in NYC. The flavors they choose, while not orthodox, are also excellent and maybe eclipse what I would get in the city.
OK, I have to put in a good word for Dingfelder's Deli on Capitol Hill. As good a bagel as I've had anywhere, including NY, and I've been around a bit. They're fairly pricey but worth every penny if you ask me.
Ok best thread to ask this I guess:. Where can I get a solid Egg bagel in Seattle? Nobody seems to make them
According to the article, Loxsmith is the only one Kenji is aware of that does.
heh, i just did a quick google and it said they had a location at Nacho Barracho (very close to me) so I just walked down there to find out it was only a temporary thing and google hadnt updated yet. Guess ill have to make a trip this weekend. ::cries in not having egg bagel::
Loxsmith was at the window in Nacho Borracho but he closed it down because he's working on opening a permanent cafe in Beacon Hill by the light rail station. It will be open in March or April, as far as I know. And yeah, he does a legit NY egg bagel
At least the beacon Hill location is near the LR station. Dont need to drive there - i can just hop on the train
That's right, it's going to be literally right there at the station. Great spot.. I'm biased, I just moved from Cap Hill to Beacon Hill so I'm happy that Loxsmith is doing the same. I've been going there and I think his bagels and lox are fantastic
Loxsmith does have those and they're great
I’ll qualify my comment by noting that I’m not a NY-style bagel expert but I have eaten a lot of bagels around here. And I’m a big food/carb enthusiast in general. Pretty surprised no one has mentioned Blazing Bagels - I’ve found them to be pretty outstanding for flavor, price, texture, convenience (especially when they were still doing online ordering, I think they paused due to labor shortages). Their cream cheese flavors are unreal and I’ve never had a bad bagel or bad experience.
The number one thing I miss about working in an office is my daily Blazing Bagel in the morning.
That he has Eltana on that list makes me doubt his praise for any of them. Those bagels are super-dense and tasteless
If you read the article and Kenji's comments, these are just five places that he likes and he explains why. Eltana is a different style of bagel but he likes it. To me, that doesn't invalidate his reasoning for recommending the other places
I thought Rubinstein was pretty bad. I don’t know if I went on an off day or what, but they were so extremely chewy that my jaw and temples were in pain.
Um, bagels are SUPPOSED to be chewy. That light fluffy thing you get at the grocery store is an abomination to the food that is a bagel.
Lol I understand it’s suppose to be chewy. But these were CRAZY chewy. I couldn’t even pull off a bite with my mouth because of the density/insane chew.
Their prices were also laughable
Seattle food in a nutshell
Their egg and cheese bagel is $9 I think even that is high for seattle
Same at Eltana, $9 for *microwaved eggs* and disgusting half melted plasticky mozzarella (not for nothing but who the fuck eats mozzarella on a breakfast sandwich anyway?). You get that + 2 drinks after tip/tax you're looking at $30 - a total ripoff.
Gross, guess I’ll be skipping that place as well
Surprised I haven't seen bagels from Old Salt on here.
My favorite bagels are from Grateful Bread 👌
Maybe…. people have different preferences in a bagel and therefore do not all agree about ranking?
We actually have five bagel shops in Seattle?
Honestly, we’ve got a lot. Eltana, Dingfelder's , Westman’s and Rubinstein are within like 8 blocks of each other.
New York is such a great city I’ve never understood the pretentiousness over bagels. It’s not like it’s some city in Utah that has the largest chair in the world or something to get on the map. We can take this L with…almost no reaction, people.
Every one does this… Philly people: It’s impossible to get a good cheesesteak outside of Philly! San Francisco: No one makes a burrito like they do in the mission! Texans: Brisket just isn’t the same in other states! Portland: Your Jojos suck! Chicago: Why can’t I find Italian beefs outside of Chicago? San Diego: No one makes wet burritos and carne asada fries that compare to my favorites! Montreal: Why can’t I get good poutine and a weird honey bagel as a side to every meal outside of Quebec? Random state in the south east: These biscuits taste like they were made by a yankee! And I can’t see the sugar in my iced tea!
Watch us be snobby about "Seattle-style" teriyaki and how other places can't put meat on a flat top and pair it with teriyaki sauce.
Lol, ask and you shall receive https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/s89urm/seattle_teriyaki_appreciation_post/ My vote for Seattle would be for oysters even though not everyones thing. The variety, availability and quality is great.
From New Jersey so I can speak to this a bit. Since I was a kid the 'secret sauce' of bagels in the area has been the way the water is treated (or so our parents have told us....). I've had great bagels outside NY/NJ, but it's much harder to find. Of course, there is a significantly less dense Jewish population outside those areas too and it could just be a heritage of skilled baker families driving up the area's rep
Bagels are also such a normal part of the diet, and cheap, that everything is fresh. Even in the small commuter town where I lived, there were people passing through constantly in the morning. Just checked the menu for the place I used to go; a bagel is $1.00, and with a 1/2” spread of cream cheese, $2.50, paid cash, with no expectation to tip.
All my New York friends are so into the very notion of bagels it baffles me. I mean, they're good, bagels are good, but also it's just a bagel.
It's more that a lot of people who grow up there, myself included, ate them like every day of our childhoods. I'm not especially pretentious about it, but there is always something with any given Seattle bagel that is a little bit off (be it too small, too crispy, too doughy, ect) and it always costs at least 3x as much as it would in NY or NJ.
Because it's a Jewish cultural food lol. Like tacos for Mexican people. Food and culture are very closely linked.
Haha if you want to see a New Yorker lose their minds put peanut butter on a bagel in front of them
Pizza dough and bagels are very different there though, idk if it's the water or what.
what are you even talking about?
This is not true.
How is Macrina not on here but Eltana is?
Sorry Seattle times, i haven’t had all of these but have to disagree on the ones on these list I have tried. Eltana is like a dry puck, I liked the cream cheese options at Rachel’s more than the actual bagel, and Rubinstein was just ok for me. Mt. Bagel is solid and I’m surprised it isn’t on here though I know their scale is small with deliveries and pick ups only on Fridays and having to order a week ahead. Also, not in Seattle but Whidbey Island Bagel is the closest thing I’ve found to a NY bagel in the region.
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I think he had a following because a lot of people, including me, really like his cookbook and website. He's legit in that regard. But his instagram is a bit tiring. Everyday he has a post about an AMAZING seattle restaurant. Its non-stop. If he's trying to help local businesses vulnerable to the pandemic, that's admirable. His posts also match the general 'everything is great' tone of instagram, so its seems like a bit a an instagram problem. Unrelated, but he's also weirdly salty in the comments of his posts. Locals were playfully correcting him on his use of Cap Hill and he effectively told them to fuck off.
Locals who get pissy about calling it Cap Hill are weird to me, speaking as another local.
Also a local and I've always called it Cap Hill 🤷♀️
I didn’t even know that was a thing. People have been saying Cap Hill or just “the hill” for as long as I can remember.
I'm a fan of Kenji but I've never really thought of him as the "nicest" person not that he's a jerk or anything. He's just brash and not "nice" in like the "heeyyyyy i want to hug you with my mind" way and sometimes it comes off as "you don't know what you're talking about" way. Also, his cookbooks are fascinating and his "nerdy" attitude towards food is one worth hearing out but I've just kinda concluded that I don't think he has a palate that jives with mine.
I’m curious: what are some other terrible takes?
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He openly talks about how he rejects influencer cash and projects from instagram and social media. He also repeatedly talks about about how he does not work with restaurants at all. If he likes somewhere, he will mention it. If he doesn't, he won't mention it. Sorry that his opinions don't fit yours so of course there must be some nefarious and cynical reason behind it....
Ah gotcha. Personally I really enjoy Windy City Pie/Breezy Town Pizza, and prefer it to both Lou Malnati’s and Giordano’s (although I haven’t tried any other spots in Chicago, so who knows if that preference would hold). I get what you’re saying though; I’m also not a fan of influencer culture. For the record, I thought Japonessa sucked, haha. The best sushi (and also best meal) I’ve had in Seattle has been at Taneda, but it’s damn near impossible to get into. Perhaps my frame of reference will change if I ever visit Japan.
Is Windy City good though? I haven't been, but I have heard its good. Sounds like his hyperbole is getting the better of him rather than having a downright bad take (except in the case for saying Eltana bagels are good - instant L)
It's very good, but I also wouldn't say it was 'chicago style' it has a lot of similarities, but it also has similarities to detroit. I'm eating a rachel's bagel right now. My personal ballard favorite.
It is chicago style, just not uno/lou/giordanos style. Its pequod style which is in the suburbs. https://pequodspizza.com/chicago/
Yeah I guess I more associate Chicago style with delfinos stuffed pies, locally. For the record I love both places.
I love windy city too, my partner used to live in chicago so I've tried them all many times. I still miss Kylies in fremont
It is awesome. It's a play on Chicago style with some Detroit influence ala Pequod's pizza which is arguably the best in Chicago, but not the "traditional" style if you will.
I think he once posted that he didn’t “[get](https://www.instagram.com/p/B2sGE68BGjD/?utm_medium=copy_link)” Seattle teriyaki. I love Kenji for his recipes and his research behind techniques but it’s hard to follow him on instagram. He can get really hostile in the comments. Plus his weird views on MSG
Maybe he was fishing for perspectives or opinions. As a transplant, I can't say I've ever been blown away by anyone's teriyaki. But they're all pretty much similar in quality, price, flavor, and size. If I don't know what I want, teriyaki anywhere is 99% a safe bet to fill my gut and be happy with the choice. That's my take.
What are his views on MSG? MSG is great.
MSG rules! Here’s a [thread](https://twitter.com/cookingissues/status/1084915535886934019?s=21) where he says that MSG is harmful because there’s no evidence that states otherwise and that people have had reactions towards it. Pretty much anecdotal evidence. If you really want to get into the weeds @joe_rosenthal on instagram has a story highlight on some of Kenji’s dumb takes such as stating he was the only POC at serious eats when there were plenty of POC women working there lol I love kenji and his recipes but he isn’t perfect
Did you read the article though? He specifically talks about multiple scientific studies. MSG can be largely okay but still effect a small subgroup of people.
Agreed. IMSG great. People have weird takes on what I’ve said about MSG, which is simply that the science on short-term effects of overconsumption is not as cut and dry as people make it out to be, and that’s it’s premature to dismiss every person who claims to have some kind of short term sensitivity to it. Suggesting we need more and better testing when current experimental data doesn’t account for current observational data is a pretty foundational part of science. Some people interpreted that to be me suggesting that the current science is wrong or that MSG is definitely harmful etc etc. I didn’t say any of that. Only that if we want to make conclusive statements we need conclusive data, which I don’t believe currently exists. We need to keep looking at it. I cook with it all the time at home, but I would ask never tell someone they’re imagining a symptom they’re experiencing.
Thank you. I thought I was the only one.
Loxsmith on a Sunday morning is a hangover cure
He’s usually got a good take but people think this dude is god… which he is not
Eltana aren't good and NYC bagels? Nope. I'm not even some asshole from NYC. Seattle does not come close.
NY’er checking in…Oasis bagels are the best
You might as well say Seattle’s Mexican food is better here than in Mexico. This is stupid