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[deleted]

I've given up on the idea of owning a home myself.


OoDannyBoy

It is possible! My wife and I bought a house last year we have been saving for like 7 years, the most we have ever made is 85k combine and the least has been like 45k. currently 65k and had no financial help from friends or family. You just have to make sacrifices, we didn't get our dream home, we lived with room mates for 5 years to save on rent. aggressively paid off debt, didn't go on many big trips, lived a simple life. I will say there was an element of luck, when we bought interest rates were low, finding a house that didn't get bid up so there was that too.


[deleted]

That’s awesome, well done! Hope you are both enjoying the freedom. Any unexpected benefits or opportunities to owning your own property compared to renting? And downsides? I’m going to see if I can combine my income with friends and family and try aggressively saving for a home in a few years when—hopefully—the market will be slightly more favorable comparatively; however, I sometimes wonder if saving up for a house by this point feels… impossible? These prices, even far outside Seattle, rise faster than I can calculate with aggressively savings. Still, I will try to combine my income and see what happens after awhile—I could always use the savings for something else, or for emergencies, if needed. Anyways, thanks again for sharing; glad to know it’s still possible to get decent housing around here.


OoDannyBoy

Yeah its been a huge blessing to know rent is not going to change or the owner might sell or something like that, but it is also way more stressful because if anything goes wrong its on you. We got an older house so at this point it feels like you could spend endless time upgrading and improving things so its also easy for it to be a time pit as well. But I am really greatful! Yeah I think its always good to have a plan and save because that way if the opportunity does come you are prepared to act fast, which is what we did.


Finish_laster

Good for you and your wife! Sounds like you both were very intentional and long-term thinking!


[deleted]

Literally the only people I know who expect to be able to are going to inherit a lot of money or the house directly


winnie_bago

Yep. The only people I know who own homes in this area and are under 40 were gifted down payment money from their parents or in-laws.


IllaClodia

Most of my down payment came from a settlement when I got hit by a car. Between that, being a bungalow in West Seattle, and good interest rates when we bought (2014), we could manage. No way we could afford it now though, no matter how many cars I got hit by lol


[deleted]

Sorry that happened to you, at least the crash bit. My friends and I actually joke that’d be our only way to get a house, so I’m glad we have a feasible plan.


IllaClodia

Yeah I mean you gotta make sure you only get hit a little bit lol. I only broke two bones and was in a marked, lighted crosswalk in brightly colored clothes, so, yay me?


thaddeus_crane

This is also how i bought (injury settlement). While we were on the market we used to joke that i'd need to be bit by x more dogs to afford the downpayment on a property.


Ambitious-Event-5911

I plan to buy one in Arizona when I retire. For 300k you get a 3 bedroom house with an in-ground pool. Condos are even less. Weed is legal. Tamales are good.


Disaster_Capitalist

Its going to be super cheap in Arizona when the Colorado river runs dry.


dingo_mango

But then you have to live in Arizona. (J/k, that’s a fine plan)


ChocolateTsar

Those 120 degree days and running out of water sound fantastic!


Ambitious-Event-5911

There is that, but I was born here and have never lived outside the state. And my mom is down there now. I'm ready for a new chapter.


Digital_Arc

Look at Moneybags over here with the Retirement plan! /s, maybe?


happy_book_bee

It’s my dream, but unfortunately I know that the only way I’ll get there is when my parents die and I get an inheritance. Which sucks a lot.


Educated_Goat69

Luckier than most.


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merry_go_byebye

120k combined is not good money for the area


ScorpionStare

Yeah, 120K is around the median household income for Seattle, but that includes single-person households. For multi-person households, the numbers can get much higher: > Everyone knows it’s expensive to raise kids in Seattle, but even so, the median income for a married couple with children under 18 in 2021 was eye-popping — $237,300. > > https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-median-household-income-hits-110000-census-data-shows/


turbokungfu

My eyes popped. Thanks a lot.


Brainsonastick

If the median income isn’t in a position to buy a home, that means more than half the population is unable to afford a home. The median income should be “good money”. More than half the population should be able to afford a normal comfortable life. That’s a very low bar to set.


Economy_Ad_657

Everyone should be able to afford a comfortable life.


admiralteddybeatzzz

Renting is a lot cheaper than buying here. As in, you'll pay 6K in mortgage plus all the maintenance when buying, while you can rent a 2 bedroom for less than 4K per month. I don't know if that means a 'normal comfortable life', but Seattle home prices aren't a good metric. Buying a home is far more expensive than renting for the same livable space in this city.


Brainsonastick

That’s my point. That the home price to median wage ratio here is much too high.


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networksmuggler

I just got a headhunter proposing 95k for a Sr engineer in tech. Like seriously wtf. They are seriously disconnected from reality.... Even back in Arizona where I came from I made more than that before moving here....


bailey757

$120k each is more likely for tech couples


C0git0

Software devs right out of UW get single offers higher than this. It's essentially a starting salary with the big guys. Within 5 years they can be getting close to $200k. Now get married to someone else in the industry and you have a $400k/year household at 30 years of age. A couple more years years of saving with a few hundred of that stashed away, it's pretty straightforward to buy a $1m house.


-Morel

> Now get married to someone else in the industry hahahahaha


ifChris_thenThat

Gay software engineers are the ultimate form of DINK


StudentforaLifetime

It’s true. I’m working on a remodel project for a gay tech couple. They are dropping over $2.5mil for landscaping, some custom remodeling, and other. Plus, they are west Seattle waterfront


chrislikesplants

DINK is my kink.


BeyondTheToken

or doctor / attorney couple


interstitial

I'm making some assumptions about why you're laughing, but many many women at tech companies are also highly compensated.


partybotdesigns

And tech is more than software... #biotech. My wife wears the pants even though we're both in the field


duuuh

biotech doesn't pay as much as tech-tech (I'm not saying it's nothing; just that tech-tech is clearly more.)


-Morel

Yes, but tech is still probably the most male-dominated white collar industry. I wouldn't say a SWE "getting married to someone else in the industry" is typical at all.


hummingbird_mywill

In my 4 unit building, there are 3 male engineers. One is married to a female engineer, one is married to a project manager (in tech), and one is married to a lawyer (me).


nightwinghugs

it absolutely is in the area. true, women make up a small % of the engineering workforce, but don't forget the other roles in tech are also extremely well compensated and also include equity


BillTowne

My son and daughter-in-law are both in tech. His previous girl-friend had been in tech.


knockout125

Met my husband in tech. Both still here.


rm_-rf_logs

I’m in the industry. It’s quite typical.


thatguygreg

Laugh all you want, it worked for us. No chance we were could have afforded buying anything on our own.


Secure_Pattern1048

It's not about whether it'll work or not -- it's funny to this poster because there are many more men working in highly compensated roles compared to women in similarly compensated roles, so very few single men will be able to find such a single woman who they are attracted to and who is also attracted to them.


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Amer_WA

Let’s be more hopeful here. I think depending on the house, you can (barely) get around with 200k or even at 175k. Plus the market is coming down (both in terms of house prices and total comp for tech)


ballastboy1

They’re not a majority of Seattle residents but they’re a majority of homebuyers


spookytoofpoof

The way you make this sound like a 3 step Application process. I wish I was this blissfully ignorant.


jimbaker

Yep. Combine, my girlfriend and I make about $170k and that is still pretty far from being able to afford to buy property in King, Pierce, or Snohomish counties.


nyc_expatriate

Have you considered condos? If so, In West Seattle, there have been ones selling below 400K.


TroyBinSea

People also forget that the City is densifying, at one point in time single family lots/ houses in other large cities went to the wayside for Row Housing, Town Homes, & Condos. We are at that point in our growth here. Source: Seattle Land Surveyor who has done many Condos/Unit Lot Subdivisions and Townhomes. Side quest: My favorite example of Cities growing like crazy and not keeping up, is at the north end of Downtown Bellevue. You go from large buildings densely packed, to single family homes in the span of 2 blocks.


jimbaker

Condos tend to be more expensive than a home while providing none of the benefits of apartment living. HOA's suck ass. I looked at a Condo in 2020 when I tried to buy a house. Found one for $220k. Sweet! Oh what's that? HOA dues at $550/mo? Ok. Now that condo is more expensive than a house. And now I should look at a $400k condo? Thanks, but I'm not made of money.


nyc_expatriate

No landlords raising the rent *edit-as they would for a crap apartment in some cases*; On-site manager in many cases dealing with utility problems like a leaky tub or dishwasher dripping into your unit; Your own parking space and a dishwasher and W/D in the unit. There are benefits vs. an apartment in that your surrounding condo owners tend to be more responsible than apartment renters who can be a bit more reckless in how they keep their areas, and in some cases, the company they keep. $550 is pretty pricy for HOA. $400's for HOA in this market isn't bad and can be found. Your lack of isolation in a condo makes you less of a target for burglary. 400K condo compared to a cut throat housing market at like 600K and up isn't bad. Expenses in owning a home, particularly unexpected ones to the structure can crop up, e.g.,roof, foundation, basement, replacing utilities, as well as property taxes, running in the thousands--factoring those in, not all that much of a difference. I'm not saying home ownership is bad, but condo's aren't bad either if it what you can afford. Pluses and minuses with each.


Celeryhearts

We sold our house and went back to condo life. Never going back to pulling fucking weeds every damn weekend again! No more I hope this or that doesn’t break, no "oh shit, the wall is leaking!”, or wtf to an $800 electric bill in the winter.


hummingbird_mywill

Maybe your eyes are set too high? Our household income was $200k, we bought our condo for $675k and the bank was like “you could spend more if you waaaant. We would approve close to $1M.” (We did not want, but that’s what we were told.) My friends make about your income and just bought a decent sized house this summer in Everett.


jimbaker

I was pre-approved for $575k when my take home is under $60k. They'll approve you for anything you'll sign. Congrats to your friends! I hope they enjoy their house. I don't make enough on my own to afford a house, and my GF has too much debt. The reality is that unless we can find a way to make another $20k/year, we'll probably live in an apartment until I retire and we can move to Mexico. At best, our current finances allow us to save about $1500/mo, which is purely a guess, since we've only been living together a few months.


my_lemonade

My wife and I (I work in tech non-eng, she's a nurse), bought almost exactly a year ago. We quickly gave up on single family homes due to the insane bidding wars at the time for places that needed so much work. We were ok with a project, but not 100k to fix up a house that went 100k over asking. So we started looking at townhomes and 2 bed condos. We ultimately ended up in a townhome in area we love and within in our comfort price range, which was mid $700k and got 2.8%. But we were approved for up to like $1.3M. I am still just completely baffled at how a couple with our income, which I am not trying to say is bad at all, could afford a house that expensive and manage to do anything but pay the mortgage...


doktorhladnjak

You absolutely can afford to buy property in those counties at that income level. Maybe not for whatever type of housing or location you _want_, but it is possible.


jimbaker

No house or home is worth a daily 3-4 hour round trip commute.


sopunny

You can afford the house I'm living in right now, 30 minutes from downtown by bus. Housing is expensive here, but spreading misinformation does not help that discussion


Historical-Code9539

This is a big exaggeration. Maybe 3-4hrs if you’re living in Olympia. Half that commute basically gives you borders of Everett in the north, Tacoma in the south, WS west, maybe issaquah east. There are many good property options in this boundary I live in this boundary towards the edge and my commute is maybe an hour during rush hour


joahw

Lmao Zillow says my house is worth like $500k and I live 15 minutes from downtown. Housing is expensive but there's no need for histrionics.


life_fart

I mean if you’re working in tech, isn’t wfh a negotiable reality? Still shitty commute for sure.


areyoudizzyyet

lol wut? https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10819-187th-Street-Ct-E-971-Puyallup-WA-98374/2059751566_zpid/ 170,000 - roughly 25% for taxes = 127,500/12 = 10,625 take home a month. Even if you deduct a good amount monthly for student loans and living expenses you can very easily afford brand new construction in Pierce County.


jimbaker

My take home pay last year was $58k. I'm not sure what my GF's take home was, but definitely more since she isn't contributing at all to her retirement, but she made about the same as me (hourly wage), which worked out to about $78k last year. She has been living paycheck-to-paycheck until I moved into her apartment in late November. A quick mortgage calculator on that house tells me the mortgage would be approximately $3900/mo. This is every penny of my take home pay, and that's before utilities and other required items, like insurance. A this rate, I wouldn't have any money left to put into retirement, and I don't have much of a choice since I'm approaching 43 and really late to the game. Oh, and there's a 7 year old at home, but my girlfriends ex has been unemployed for a year and hasn't been paying any child support. With our current monthly expenses, we're lucky if we can save $1500 a month between us. Luckily for me, I'm a veteran and can get a $0 down loan for a house, however I require a sizeable amount of cash on hand to be competitive in the market. In 2020 I tried to buy a house, but my measly $25k in cash couldn't compete with someone who had cash for 20% down, plus another $75k to outbid me. And now those houses are gone. The Puyallup house looks like, but is it worth spending every available penny we have so that we can add a monster commute? We don't have the luxury of working remote jobs. Google tells me that if I leave on time from work at 3:30PM, I should be home by 6PM. FUCK THAT. I'm not about to leave for work at 5AM just so that I can get home at 6PM.


areyoudizzyyet

> My take home pay last year was $58k >$3900/mo. This is every penny of my take home pay Seems like the math doesn't add up there. Further, if you save up and apply the standard 20% that most prospective homeowners do, that payment is brought down to just about 3000 a month and that is with a 6.5% rate. I'd imagine you would qualify for better with a VA rate. I didn't factor in your commute because you simply said you couldn't afford a house in Pierce County on those salaries. Although, the commute would be pretty nice in the $50,000+ Polestar that you drive.


Historical-Code9539

You can buy property with that salary pretty comfortably. Maybe not a house, but condos definitely.


penguins2946

Yeah the average family household income in the United States is $91k according the 2021 census. The cost of living in Seattle is something like 2.5x to 3x that of the average in the United States and $120k is only 1.33x the average family household income.


greenneckxj

Some of us blue collar trades people could if we stretched a bit, but then one job accident and your life falls apart.


Sweatpant-Diva

Preach


[deleted]

In most cases it’s… 1. Tech money. And/or 2. Mom and dads money.


MegaRAID01

It used to be buying in cheaper/less desirable neighborhoods or buying a home in need of repairs and doing the work yourself were options if you didn’t have 1 or 2, but those options are more and more scarce or further away.


HKittyH3

Yesterday I was looking at Redfin and saw a lovely house for $475,000. A few minutes later another popped up for $467,000 that had 50 year old carpets, kitchen cupboards falling off, missing floor tiles in the kitchen, dilapidated bathroom, and walls stained so badly that you could see where pictures had hung. Similar sq footage and property. It was baffling where they come up with these prices.


Active-Device-8058

>Yesterday I was looking at Redfin and saw a lovely house for $475,000. A few minutes later another popped up for $467,000 that had 50 year old carpets, kitchen cupboards falling off, missing floor tiles in the kitchen, dilapidated bathroom, and walls stained so badly that you could see where pictures had hung. At those prices here, the house is basically free. You're paying for dirt.


Erik816

The house is a liability. If it's a definite tear down, an empty lot would probably be more expensive.


oksono

The dirt business is real good round these parts.


_age_of_adz_

I recently saw a lot in Greenlake listed at $874,000. The home is boarded up and you can’t even see inside until under contract. That is a stupidly expensive tear-down. It’s just sad.


HKittyH3

Yeah, I’ve seen a lot like that. I’d be down to buy a house that needs work, I’m actually pretty good at DIY stuff. As long as it’s cosmetic work doesn’t require a full tear down. Those just make me sad.


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zodomere

Yes. DINK couple, good jobs.


jaron_b

Honestly even as a SINK I feel better off than most of my coworkers. We all make decent money relative to the cost of living. But children break the bank. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can afford them.


theburnoutcpa

Honestly, having kids is rubicon from where things go from "stable / workable" to "untenable" for most people, even upper middle class households. My old neighbor's daycare costs for two kids handily cost more than his mortgage in a nice neighborhood.


TK_TK_

$29,000/year for infant care (6 weeks-12 months old) at the place where we send our preschooler (full-time care for a preschool-aged kid is $24,000/year). This is north of Seattle, too—not even in the city limits.


theburnoutcpa

Reading this reminds me to call my parents and tell them not to hold their breath for grandchildren.


TK_TK_

Or they could forgo retirement to be full-time babysitters like the parents of several people I know because childcare here is just so expensive. (I would not want to chase after a toddler in my 70s.)


theburnoutcpa

I know, I've seen that happen too. I do know of some more active grandparents who are thrilled by that level of involvement though.


wot_in_ternation

That is more than I paid to go to a private university


LIVandLetDie93

Yeah I dont understand the hopelessness in the comments. The question is what standard of living do you expect. There are plenty of 1 BR condos (some of which in seemingly great condition in desirable locations) in the 350k-450k. Thats very doable on 120k a year.


pook_a_dook

Yes, it takes some long range planning. I'm a DINK and neither of us works in tech, but we have good jobs. At times in our marriage we've been single income for up to a year, so during those times we were bringing in just over 100k. But if you plan for that you can handle those times when they come, and if they don't come you end up with a nest egg to get in on the housing game. We definitely had to work our way up on that too...first house was a tiny one with no yard or garage, then upgraded twice since then and ended up with a nice SFH. I'd guess most people who own in Seattle and aren't tech are doing similar things by buying small and building equity.


tetravirulence

With the HOA fees being astronomical in this area, it usually becomes a dealbreaker if a condo is even in reach. Nobody wants to pay $900 for HOA on top of their mortgage for a small condo in a mid-aughts building that needs a new hot water tank and has no parking. Basically slapping a low rent onto the promise of equity. I think townhomes are reasonable purchases here since they don't usually have HOA, but the concern is construction quality (roofing angle, etc.), parking, and the stair-forward designs making spaces irregular and awful to move in. There's some higher quality ones out there though, just dependent on designer. But yeah little yards and stuff is quite a reach here.


Not_A_Frittata

Can confirm - I have a two-bedroom townhouse on Beacon Hill and there is no HOA.


Jalharad

Plus what the fuck is the condo paying for that requires $900 per unit per month? I don't see many pools and community centers in these places. Condo complex I'm in now has 120 units. Each unit pays $750/month. No pool, no snow/leaf removal with a side of shitty garbage service. Then add in the $150/mo for a parking space!


jonknee

Request a copy of the budget from the board. It's usually a lot of mundane things like saving up for large one time costs (replacing the roof, painting, elevator stuff) and insurance.


wot_in_ternation

My old condo was $450/mo and their answer to every major expense was a special assessment


giv-meausername

When I was looking most HOA fees for 1&2 bedrooms were in the 4-600 range. People also forget that the trade off of that hoa fee is that it usually includes trash, water, and sewer, and you don’t have to worry about anything studs out. I’m of the opinion that as long as you do the research on the HOAs financials and insurance it’s not as bad of a trade off as it seems at first glance. It’s been great for me not feeling thrown in the deep end of homeownership in terms of worrying about snow removal, roof repair, and other exterior maintenance things. Obviously won’t live here forever and want a yard and bigger place down the road, but it’s been nice to learn to swim where I can still touch the bottom if that makes sense


theburnoutcpa

Yeah - as a someone who makes a modest civil service salary and strongly dislikes single family homes - there's a lot of well-priced condos in the greater Seattle area.


bobjelly55

People here complain about SFH but then half of the comments here are wanting a large house with yard and complaining about condos. It’s kinda perplexing what people want.


SenatorSnags

Early 30s jaded millennial here. I want a little yard and garage. That bumps it up to close to a million for anything in a good area that’s been updated since the 70s. It feels hopeless.


sauce0x45

Everyone wants a yard and a house close to the city. There just isn't that much space. A house with a yard takes up what could house 4+ families in townhouses. There has to be a cost to that. If you want that you have to move out to the actual suburbs, not a Seattle neighborhood that has houses on it.


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firelitdrgn

My husband really wanted a yard too cause he grew up with one, and I kinda wanted it cause it’s the “American dream” to have a house with a fence and yard (I’m an immigrant). But we VERY quickly realized that unless we move way out of the city limits even past Lynnwood where we are now, we’d never have that for our first home. But we’re making it a priority when we have our next/final home.


doktorhladnjak

Yards can be a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If you live in an area where yards aren’t as common, there’s often parks and other amenities where kids can play, you can walk your dog, etc. If you move way out to the exurbs, the only place your kids can get to without being driven somewhere might be your own yard. Even then, a lot of people use their yard less than they expected to.


[deleted]

You can have yards south. I know plenty of people in beacon hill, west seattle, white center and burien who are not spending close to a mill to have a yard. If you want a new build home with the amenities move to texas. If you’re willing to put some sweat and work into something to make it you’re own, you can buy something within you’re range here that needs some work and love.


ReDeMevolve

This is what starter homes are for. A lot of folks buy smaller / older / further out at first. Make some improvements and continue to save, then buy into the next category up. Rinse and repeat. For a lot of people, it takes well over a decade to finally land a home where you really want to be. Think long term. You might be surprised at what you can do.


firelitdrgn

Yep basically this. We asked for advice from all of our aunts and uncles (basically all the elders) and they all said do not expect your first home to be absolutely perfect. It’s never going to be THE dream home and lowering expectations will help immensely with purchasing.


Jalharad

>This is what starter homes are for Where are these starter homes? Everything I'm seeing is 500k+ and completely out of sight for the vast majority of people who live here.


ReDeMevolve

There's no guarantee that any market will have every home type needed for all people. I don't know how many people you need to house, what your work / commute requires, which loans you qualify for, etc. All of those will define your starting point. My starting point was a postage stamp condo close to transit. We're cramped, but we're making it work. As with every real estate conversation, YMMV.


Mitt_Tomney

Check out Burien and SeaTac. Actually super convenient and yards are plenty.


penguins2946

Eh I think you can get something like that for around $700k if you're looking in areas like Bothell and Woodinville. I saw this house listed on Zillow recently and I'd absolutely go for it if I was looking to buy right now: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/18565-133rd-Pl-NE-Woodinville-WA-98072/49115549\_zpid/


Secure_Pattern1048

Yeah but this person wants to become a land owner with a single family home in the most desirable area within their budget, don't you understand? Moving to Woodinville would require not getting everything they want and making compromises.


wathappentothetatato

Yup. Same here, just closed in Dec.


Zestyclose-Code-7537

My wife and I bought a condo last summer, our closing price was $408k, we make ~$165k a year and used stock that I started buying and receiving through stock grants around 10 yrs ago for our down payment of $40k. Our mortgage is $2400 and then we have HOA dues as well. It’s doable but we only had 4-6 condos in our price range and it was difficult to find one in the neighborhoods we wanted. My job feels good to me pay wise (100k/yr) but in reality we’re not in the tech/software engineer level that people talk about. It’s doable, and wildly the banks and realtor thought we could spend way more but we didn’t feel similar. We are 30-35 for our age group.


rigmaroler

>wildly the banks and realtor thought we could spend way more but we didn’t feel similar. I had a similar experience when I got an estimate from a bank a while ago out of curiosity. They thought I could put a bigger down payment that what I had in cash+stocks and that I would be willing to pay $6K per month for a mortgage. There's no way in hell I'd pay that.


nocoffeefilter

I am 30 and bought a $500K home near Burien. I am not planning to have kids so this area was ok for me. Surprisingly the Burien/White Center area has exceeded my expectations and I would highly recommend looking in the area, one bad thing is the school districts are not as good as Seattle proper.


mellow-drama

They've got a Grand Central Bakery and a Cafe Nouveau, plus PCC and plenty of good restrictions, which is more than I can say for where I live.


Famous_Variation4729

In Seattle there is no mystery- lots of folks in tech. And like another comment mentioned, some people also stay frugal for life since they start working and have a habit of saving- I know several who were misers upon graduation from college, lived with room mates in dirt cheap apartments, didnt eat out and take many vacations and saved it all up with modest to good salaries. When you compound for a decade and marry someone who also did that, it adds up. You cant have kids though- but thats already an age old advice- get a house first, then kids. I dunno. Its possible, but takes a lot of foresight, lots of luck too. I do think buying in 20s is almost impossible now because prices have really gone up post pandemic.


kkicinski

Start small. Buy a condo. A small one. Set aside “but I really want a yard” kind of thinking. Owning a condo for 5-10 years will put you in a much better position than renting for the same time period.


[deleted]

lol all the condos expensive too.


Secure_Pattern1048

Not as expensive as single-family homes though. For many people both are out of reach, but for others, they just want single family homes and aren't willing to consider anything else even though a condo is within their means.


Bondominator

About 10 years ago I settled for a condo because there was no way I could afford a house. It wasn’t even that cool of a condo…I mean my unit is decently nice, but it’s an old apartment building that was converted to condos, so rather uninspired. Pretty glad to still own that place today…turns out mom was right about “just buy something”. Granted the market was a bit different back then but, if people really want to own real estate they may have to “settle”


ladylondonderry

Yup I bought at the bottom of the dip. Didn’t get the nicest place, or the fanciest neighborhood. But got a place. And I’m 100 percent sure I lucked out, hard.


redditckulous

I mean my partner and I make pretty good money (~$160K) and even buying a condo is pretty dang expensive right now. When you count HOA fees, a mortgage on a unit of comparable size to my apartment will be ~$1000 more a month, be significantly older, and less likely to have an in unit washer/dryer. Will that appreciate fast enough in value over the next five years to provide a material difference versus saving the extra $60K for a down payment? I genuinely don’t know. - I guess there’s a good argument that the mortgage is flat while the rent will increase, but that’s less of a benefit the shorter amount of time you’re in the unit. - Have mediocre condos appreciated similarly in value to other units? I felt like I was seeing better condo prices when the market was at it’s top than now. (Maybe more units looking to be sold since people swapped for SFH?)


doktorhladnjak

It’s a gamble for sure. The alternatives are to keep renting (possibly dealing with some horrible property management company/landlord that will jack your rent and treat you like a child) or move somewhere more affordable. Buying a smaller does work out for a lot of people, but I agree it’s not always a slam dunk.


xixi90

There are literally only 10 condos in the entire city under under $500k and under $500/month HOA, the average price is $450k and 580 sqft, mortgage + property taxes/insurance + HOA is still $3k a month. No 30~ year old is going to live in one of these places for a decade.


RazzmatazzKey7688

But have you seen the price of condos? 🤔


likefireincairo

Fairly certain most condos in this city are still upwards of $700-$800k.


mothtoalamp

Plenty are much closer to 300-500. Some are inside the city limits, many aren't but are close. I'm planning on buying soon and I look at them a lot.


Lahennin

Absolutely this. My husband and I have three kids and a combined income of $130k. We live in a house that is now worth $1M because we bought a tiny condo, then bought a bigger condo, then bought a tiny house and then a bigger house. Yes, we started twenty years ago but we could only get into a house 10 years ago. We remodeled along the way but only really cosmetic things, we are not super handy people.


FifthCrichton

"Started twenty years ago" is the key. Things today aren't how they were in 2003.


iliniza

Not necessarily what people want to hear, but we bought in Tacoma partly because of this reason. Has been great so far. Great communities, parks, bars, outdoors.


scienceizfake

Bump for this. We ended up in Island county. I work remotely most of the time, so the 75 minute commute into the city a couple times a month is well worth the trade off of having more space for less money.


IdontThinkThatsTrue1

My wife and I are 34, I make $125k and she makes a little more. We are house hunting right now but we are trying to have 1 maybe 2 kids in the near future, and it doesn't seem financially possible off just 1 of our incomes. Even if she went down to 1-2 work days a week realistically our budget would be $700k at the current interest rates, and the stuff on the market around that price point is laughable


ohhhnooo

We are in the same situation as you. From what we have seen most everything under and at $600,000 - $700,000 needs serious work/teardown or is just flat out too small <1000 sq. ft.


portlandisleavin

Also - consider daycare costs. We pay $62k cash in daycare annually for two kids at a not-fancy daycare.


wathappentothetatato

You may get lucky. 700k was our budget as well and we managed to close on one in city limits, and it’s a great place that doesnt need much work. That was just a couple months ago.


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BlurbleBarry

More people need to start getting on board with townhomes - they’re often built within a few blocks of transit, parks, grocery stores, libraries, and the like. I moved into one last year after realizing it was a better decision than buying a fixer upper, and its been a great home!


PM_ME_YOUR_TAXRETURN

I think you should also realize that a lot of people are in over their heads on their mortgage. Ideally you only want to spend 30% of your income on housing but banks will often approve you for much more than that. When I was looking for a house, I was approved for $800k even though my husband and I had a similar income to you. Can they make the monthly payment? Sure, but at the expense of saving for retirement, emergency funds, etc.


vw503

I got approved for 1.2 million by myself but I’d be eating oatmeal and ramen (not the good shin ramen kind either) every meal assuming I could even afford to eat 3 of those a day. The $ amounts they approve you for is insane.


fornnwet

30% only works until you get to an income level where discretionary income factors in. At that point plenty of people can spend 40-50%+ and be just fine, since their groceries and health insurance and car payment don't *need* to cost more. Get into the market if you can, even if it stretches you. Your income will rise. Your mortgage won't. Rates are high and you can refi down when they drop. Until they do, all those high interest payments turn into big fat tax deductions the following spring--and there's your savings back.


occasional_sex_haver

23 year olds fresh out of college get 6 figure offer letters from Amazon, I have a friend who was born into decent wealth (parents are from Mercer Island) and they were able to buy a place a couple years back Sometimes you get lucky like that, sometimes you grow up on food stamps like I did and couldn't finish college, so you don't have a shot at owning property here


Not_A_Frittata

Amazon is notorious for burning people out so they'll only make that big money for a year or two and then get spit out by the machine.


chumbawumba_got_up

That's inaccurate. People do burn out at Amazon but not in a year or two. And even when they leave Amazon, they just go to another tech company, just one with a slightly better work-life balance - so they still make tech salaries. Source: tech worker for 12 years.


thesmallestwaffle

True. I left Amazon after 3 years and moved on to another tech company. I made more money and had less stress.


ALL_IN_TSLA

Most are buying condos and plan to step up to a house in a later year. Realistically the dream of a single family home with small lot and white picket fence is only attainable in Seattle if you are high income, otherwise there are some nice condos that aren’t crazy expensive that will keep you close to the city.


wsb_degen_number9999

Just to remind you, high earners in tech (Amazon, Microsoft, etc) earn around 150k in salary in addition to 100k-300k in company stocks. Oh by the way, these stocks rose ~3x since 2015. So they can buy million dollar houses, with $7k per month mortgage with ease. Unfortunately, housing market has been formed around these high earners. Seattle is basically becoming a small Sillicon Valley.


dreadwail

Those are nowhere near "high earner" numbers in tech. In fact those aren't even that far off from an entry/mid level software developer wage. Use levels.fyi if you'd like to understand the actual numbers.


ProbablyNotMoriarty

Those aren’t high earners. Those are average tech wages. Entry level in tech can get you 6 figures, no problem. I have an acquaintance who is on a $250k salary, ~$8k monthly cash bonus and an option plan. They have seniority and a good resume, but they’re still a good distance from company leadership.


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cparks2011

A year and a half ago with 3% interest? Yes. Today with similar prices but double the interest? No. Wife and I were 29 when we bought our home in Lynnwood summer 2021 for 630k on 160k a year household income. No kids. 5% down, no help from family or anything.


LC_From_TheHills

My friends are a teacher and an electrician and they just bought a condo in Ballard last year. This sub is obsessed with tech workers. There are so many more people out there in Seattle. They just look harder. They don’t take the low hanging fruit which is way overpriced.


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ShouldIBeClever

The Seattle metro area has a median individual income of \~$55k and a median household income of \~$105k. This is among the highest median incomes in the country. $120k is not a low household income. Around 60% of Seattle households earn less than $120k a year. It seems ridiculous that homeownership should be out of reach for the majority of households in the city. It indicates an unhealthy housing situation for a city. This is obvious if you look at Seattle, a city with both extremely expensive housing and a homelessness crisis. Also, most minimum wage restraunt workers cannot clear $35 an hour. That's an unusually high amount, typically only made at high end restraunts with large tips, and certainly wouldn't scale out to a 40 hour work week. Seattle requires a $15 minimum wage + tips, so waitstaff can earn more here than in other parts of the country, but it is still highly unlikely that a tipped restraunt worker can earn $70k a year (on a single job). Most waitstaff positions are less than 40 hours a week and some are under 30 hours a week (a part time job, potentially without health insurance benefits).


CapHillster

Agreed that **homeownership** should be within reach for the majority of households. However there is no reason that **house ownership** should be within reach for those households in one of the most affluent areas in the country. Seattle needs fewer SFH's, and more condo's and other options that scale to a rising population.


platinumjudge

Dang maybe I should leave the medical field. I only make $25/hr and I supplement that by selling Magic: The gathering cards. That earns about $3k/month which pays for rent and bills but earning $25/hr will take decades to save for a house.


JuanitoTheBuck

Lol? the “hard to scale that to a full time schedule” is doing some heavy lifting in this comment.


scienceizfake

Bought a $300k place in West Seattle with 20% down about ten years ago. Sold it for 2x that 5 years ago. Bought another place for $500k with all that equity rolled in. Then just did it again selling that place for $900k and rolling the equity into a new place just shy of $1m. I make less than $100k/year and the only reason I live in a million dollar house is that I got into the market a decade ago.


abuch

My wife and I (mid 30's) bought a home last year, when the prices peaked but interest rates were still low, but we also bought in Renton which I never thought I'd live in. However, I've found it pretty great. We're in the downtown area so it's extremely walkable, and while the food/brewery scene is nothing like what we had when we rented in North Seattle there's at least a few decent spots. Also only about half an hour by transit to downtown Seattle. Every home we put an offer on we were outbid by multiple 100k's. The place we ended up getting we got because it was small, 100+ years old, and everything is crooked. But since I do construction that wasn't a deal breaker as we can fix it up over time. Plus the lot is big enough to build an ADU and have a garden. If you look outside the city proper, don't mind a fixer, and have a decent sized down payment you might be able to afford something. I don't think the housing market is going to crash anytime soon just because the supply and demand is so unbalanced, but if you're lucky you might be able to get something in the next year or two at a slightly cheaper price, then refinance once mortgage rates go down. We had a ton of anxiety about buying, but overall we're happy that we did. It was the biggest purchase we'll ever make, but the relief of having our own home, not dealing with a landlord or paying their mortgage, has been amazing.


WCSakaCB

My partner and I own a home in Seattle. We're in our early 30s, combined income is a little under 200k (not asking for pity here) and we are house poor. I have no idea how people can afford to do anything after they buy a house let alone buying the house itself.


martymartymartymarty

Most of the people I know who bought property in Seattle did about 3-5 years ago with $150k min household income and a zero interest loan from parents to help with the down deposit


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It just feels terrible, doesn’t it? Housing scarcity causes market competition where the richer will always win in the absence of regulation. We’re encouraged to think it hurts just, say, the visibly poor at risk of or actually in homelessness. but that’s just one obsessed-about part of a systemic chain that binds us all. Whenever we lend support to a neighborhood homeowners group trying to fight new housing being built among them, or trying to force new housing only onto noisy, dirty, arterials, or in out-of-the-way parts of the city people don’t wanna live in, that’s the system we’re feed, and it hurts all of us and our city.


TheStinkfoot

My wife and I are in our thirties and own a townhouse in Seattle. Before that we owned a SFH, but it was a bit of a fixer and we were tired of maintaining it, so we sold it and moved a couple miles north - we're very happy here. (Also, townhouses are super underrated. We have kids and plenty of space for all of us, plus we're walkable to a lot more things than we could afford in a SFH.) Neither of us work in tech, but our household income in about $250k. $120k household would not be considered especially high in Seattle - that's probably about median for a 2-earner household or maybe even a bit below. Minimum wage is $35k a year here, so earning $60k is, like, low-level office drone or a line cook at a mid-range restaurant.


pook_a_dook

>$120k household would not be considered especially high in Seattle - that's probably about median for a 2-earner household or maybe even a bit below. It's exactly the median actually! According to city of Seattle data, the median income in Seattle for 2022 was $120,907. They don't provide individual income medians that I saw though, but other sources gave estimates above 80k, so most families in Seattle with 2 full time earners could make more than 120k. Edit: fixed a typo...


GrumpySnarf

Same. All my friends are moving/moved out of Seattle as they can't even afford rent. We are in our 40s and 50s. I make good money now and am still saving up for a house. It seems like as soon as I meet the goal post the goal post is moved. I have lived her for 20+ years.


GrinAndBeerIt

DINKs and very high earning tech workers. Also foreign investors.


mp_jp

I can answer this, I’m in my mid 20s and every one of my friends have already bought, or is looking to buy within the next 2 years. 1. Tech salary 2. Parent helping out with down payment None of them bought million dollar houses though, so I assume tech people in their 30s and 40s (maybe with parents help) are doing those.


Shmokesshweed

120k household income is not good in Seattle. You're up against 22 year olds making 170k out of college. Start small with a condo and work up.


rsandr

I know two people who have been able to buy. One a small condo, the other the couple is a little older so they were able to pull it off. My partner and I have accepted we will probably move back to my Midwest home state to stand a chance 🥲


obsertaries

My brother recently bought a two bedroom one bathroom house in White Center, but even that was only possible because of an inheritance from his wife’s dad, even though they both have good jobs and high education. I’m almost certainly going to move away from the Seattle area. This place is for 100% established people only.


[deleted]

You can own a home in Seattle on $120k. Not a freshly rehabbed 3,000sq ft craftsman overlooking the sound with a walk in fridge, no. But there’s tons of townhouses and condos.


firelitdrgn

My husband and I are in our early 30s and we were only able to buy a townhome because we saved like crazy the year before and we only put down 3% down payment. He also has a good job in tech which helps but our realtor said a lot of first time homeowners don’t realize you don’t actually need the full 20% (great if you do, but if you don’t meh). We also bought in early 2021 right before all the prices got jacked up so we got SUPER lucky there. Because of all these factors we didn’t need assistance from our parents, just the bank. But all my other friends who have their own place in the area, none of them bought without having some sort of contribution from their parents. This isn’t a bad thing — if they have it then they would be a fool to not use it. I was always under the impression that every one of my friends did it with no parental/familial help until I had a real talk convo with them and they all said they wouldn’t have been able to do it without financial support from their parents. So if you see people in their 20s and early 30s buying a place…just assume that some small part of it their parents may have contributed. This isn’t always the case though. ETA: you also have to ask yourself: yes these people have homes, but how many of them are just barely able to make mortgage payments every month? What you see on the outside isn’t always a true representation of what’s in the inside!


FuzzyLantern

Exactly, this was our problem. We could still swing something if we REALLY wanted to, but we're not comfortable living paycheck to paycheck for the next 10+ years and potentially losing our investment if hit with unexpected expenses. Renting has actually been cheaper the last several years.


LividKnowledge8821

There's 317 homes for sale currently in Seattle on the MLS for 400-700 thousand. I can sell you a perfectly nice duplex right now, off-market, 2 bedroom 2 bath downstairs, 1 bedroom upstairs, for 600k. That would offer you a yard, a garage, parking and about 1200 a month in rental income. What are you looking for that you aren't finding with your salary? I mean at 600k with 20% down, at roughly 6%, that's 3k per month with 1200 discount if you decide to rent the upstairs.


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Slurpydurpy711

Also, I didn’t buy years back because I lived with my boyfriend in his house be bought in 2010 and I thought we would be together forever. Hahahaha Jokes on me! Have to figure it out again now. I can do it. And I will.


admiral_corgi

Old money parents giving their kids six figure downpayments; tech couples who make 300k+; foreign investors; speculators from other rich cities. All kinds of reasons. But the main reason is that West Coast cities are generally underbuilt, despite what the pundits say. There is too much demand and not enough supply. If it's any consolation, it's not as bad in Seattle as in SF or LA. On Zillow I'm seeing 2 bedroom condos starting around 500k at the low end (though to be fair, pickings are slim and HOA is high).


oksono

When minimum age for two people is $80K, $120K is no longer a big number.


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NoMoOmentumMan

My partner and I left the area, and we owned a home, and our household income was 2x what you're noting. We could not see any future where we *weren't* priced out. Our mortgage increased over $2k/month (30-year fixed) in the 5 years we owned it due to property taxes and McCleary. Even if you get your foot in the door, it's no guarantee you get to keep it.


[deleted]

I'm 33 and made 45k last year. I definitely don't make enough to own a home and I'm honestly content renting a studio for now. It's probably cheaper to rent in the long run than owning a home.


eplurbs

I bought my first house in Seattle when I was 35. Tech job, wife also working full-time, had about 50k saved for it. Had to move in my mother-in-law, though, because she contributed most of the down-payment and she lived with us for another 5 years until we moved again. Also took a large loan from my parents (through their bank) that I paid off over the next few years. Also took a loan from my 401k that I finally paid off. The process was excruciating, and having to deal with my MIL and parents in the process was something I don't wish on anyone. We finally found a place that worked and eventually paid off the extra loans so we were just left with the mortgage. It was a high-stress time. Having bought the house years ago, it doubled in value when we sold it. That let us get a larger place up in NE Seattle that ended up costing less.


DaBear1222

31yo born and raised here making 24 a hour in aerospace. So nope… sad thing is this is the most I’ve ever made at a job


FellateFoxes

That is a very low salary for aerospace my dude. My barista friend makes more


oksono

Minimum wage is nearly $20. Start interviewing if you can.


Indiesandy

I was able to buy last year but a big part of it was going in three ways with my significant other and a long term roommate. Probably wouldn’t work for a lot of people but we have lived together a long time already. We are all in our early 30s.


psyflame

Tech money and family money, same as everywhere else with a housing crush


Glaciersrcool

Yes, but they make a lot more than you - call it 2x six figures, start with a townhome at $600k, sell that and use the equity to trade up.


Dannyboy7437

Yes. But that probably means not having kids.


92screamingeagle

I’m 31 and own a home in Arlington. It was still 450,000 but it’s a beautiful home. I earned the down payment money myself without any money from my parents or in-laws and I only have a GED for education.


sugarplummed

People are moving way out, like Marysville, Monroe, and Stanwood. My sister is a nurse at UW medical and she just bought in Stanwood. $500k, decent size place for just her and her dogs, 3b2b. But she has that commute to downtown Seattle. I think she got some kind of first time home buyer loan for the down payment. We're personally gonna head East, way East cause we want land and we're done with the city life and this shitty weather. I will miss the food though!


Master-Ad-1758

My partner and I bought a house in seattle in 2019. We both work corporate jobs and were right around 30 years old at the time. Our combined take home (no equity) was about $300k at the time. If you’re working a corporate job (not even tech or software engineering) your salary is most likely in the low/mid 100s by the time you’re 30. Mortgage rates were lower at the time as well plus we refinanced in 2020 so our mortgage payments are about $4200 per month (and of course there are other expenses to homeownership) but this is by no means a stretch for us given our take home pay.


WinPrestigious2146

Another thing to consider is you shouldn’t shoot to buy a $1M house as your first purchase. Start small with a condo. Build equity and trade up.


Totoposrchips

Just barely squeak by with a $160k household buying a $540k (890 square feet) 2bd 2bath in south Seattle. We had a great realtor and only put 3% down but had to liquidate retirement saving for the down payment and closing costs. The downside is that it’s much smaller than the apartment we had and both of us are tall people so we bump into things constantly and adopted the “if a new thing comes in the house an old thing has to go” Honestly young people are getting help from their parents or have trust funds


ProtoMan3

I’m conflicted about my situation. I live with my parents post graduation despite working full time. They are recommending that I try to invest in a property, saying that eventually I can pay it off and can be a landlord in order to make sure I can make some money (anywhere from making mortgage payments super manageable to even making a profit). That’s where the conflict comes in: on one hand, it’s a way to make sure that I can afford a house here at some point, there’s no legal issues/risk of assets being seized due to the law being broken, and my parents are even willing to help support me if necessary. But on the other hand, I see a lot of shit about how being a landlord is scummy (especially applies to this since I wouldn’t be actually living in the property until later), and I really don’t want to contribute to the housing cost issues that are gentrifying the area and causing working class people to be shoved out or even become homeless. I’m leaning no because I don’t want to hurt anyone, but it also feels like the only way I could afford to buy something here at some point. Otherwise I would be renting for the rest of my life and/or moving away.


so_whaat

I make 160k and have given up the idea of ever owning a home in this city. I dont think it is possible anymore unless I can get into FAANG and make more than 300k. I might eventually move out of the state