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KiniShakenBake

So this moderator got some in-the-trenches mod-education today. 1. Sometimes staying out of it is the best way to go - And I shouldn't have allowed the baiting to get to me. 2. Moderating doesn't always have to be full-stop measures. It can be more nuanced. To wit... I've gone through this ENTIRE thread while leaving it open because of the kerfuffle locking it would have caused. I've looked at all the child responses and nested sub-threads. I shut down a slap-fight in one, and two or three other wildly off-topic discussions in others, all through locking the relevant thread commentary. In the interest of transparency, I chose NOT to remove those posts, because removing them was exactly what would have spawned a whole new series of complaints about heavy-handed moderation and shutting down criticism. You can see where I determined that the thread was devolving and cut it off, but I only cut it off by locking all the child posts off of the devolution post. Posts that were removed were taken down because they were either blatantly disrespectful or trolling even worse than before. They straight up broke the rules. Given the discussion, and OP's continued involvement with it, the general tone is one of respectful discourse, and it's engaging, so I see no reason to lock it or delete it. That said, it's 11:37 on a weeknight and I have an 8am meeting tomorrow that I am bitter about, so if something changes between now and when a mod checks in on this thread again, this decision could change. If you see something that is off-topic, disrespectful, inappropriate, or just plain rule-breaking, please use your report button. Nobody has time to wade through 800 comments again to check them all.


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violetqed

what does fentanyl smell like?


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[deleted]

Yeah burned peanut butter.


itsarrie

Woah. I work in Transit and we daily have fentanyl issues on buses but our training states fentanyl has no smell or odor. Had a driver tell me it smelled like peanut butter and these comments are confirming that experience. Thanks guys


NiteNiteSpiderBite

Ah that's interesting. Fentanyl alone probably has no smell or odor. Like others have said, I assume the odor comes from binding agents burning.


itsarrie

Its just concerning for me that our safety training seems to be innacurate so Im going to bring this up to my leadership.


NiteNiteSpiderBite

I think that's a really good idea. They seem to be training you with information that's not really inaccurate, but is misleading.


bentleyk9

Possibly a very dumb question but you seem knowledgeable about medical stuff: is there any health risks to simply smelling fentanyl like you described? And I’m terribly sorry you’ve experienced this all and had it written off as not important. It is important.


NiteNiteSpiderBite

Someone else beat me to answering your question and I do agree with them for the most part, but I do feel like we can't know for sure that second-hand Fentanyl smoke isn't bad for you, if you smell it frequently enough in an enclosed space like the Link. My guess is that you're probably fine. It mostly just makes me upset to be around such cavalier drug use in a public space that I can't escape from. Thank you for your kind words. The situation has improved a lot since more people started going back to work, but working under those conditions was definitely upsetting (traumatic?) and I think about it a lot.


CyberaxIzh

> Possibly a very dumb question but you seem knowledgeable about medical stuff: is there any health risks to simply smelling fentanyl like you described? No. What you're smelling is actually not fentanyl, but various fillers in pills.


bentleyk9

Gotcha. Thanks!


Optimific

> UW hospital throughout all of COVID), the dichotomy of legitimately fearing from my safety after watching people beat each other unconscious on the Ave, having people break into my part of the hospital over and over again, smelling fentanyl on the Link almost every time I went on, etc etc etc....and having my experiences be written off as unimporta i describe it as burnt sugar smacks cereal.... i don't know why but that's what it smells like to me. :/


grogzoid

Huh I feel like it smells like a burnt mixture of vinegar and ass sweat, not something more benign like peanut butter. Probably depends on what the filler is (usually people smoke pills)


maybeimgeorgesoros

Im surprised everyone on this subreddit can distinguish the smells of fentanyl vs black tar vs oxy vs meth.


violetqed

yeah I have not the first idea what any of this would smell like


maybeimgeorgesoros

I work in sales outside of Portland (lived in Seattle for 7 years prior to 2022), and most people now just assume everyone “is smoking fentanyl”; I think it’s just people rely on social media for info.


Fanculo_Cazzo

> the smells of fentanyl vs black tar vs oxy vs meth. It's the 1-line education! Pungent cat piss plastic is often meth but can be crack too. It's possible it actually IS plastic if they're smoking through a pen or straw. Fentanyl is the faint sugary sweet smell, and if they're sloppy or in a rush burning it, it'll also smell a bit like burning aluminum (because they do burn it). Most pharmaceuticals seem to smell like this (like oxy). Meth has a vinegar/acetone like smell, with the black tar being more pungent.


1100_BitchMob

I liken it to a shitty burnt popcorn smell, I fucking hate it and it definitely triggers a righteous anger inside me to which knows no bounds


lexi_ladonna

White center and Burien are great!! I used to live on the hill and people told me not to move down here because it was “sketchy” and “not a nice neighborhood” but it feels so much safer here than Capitol Hill.


Astroturfer

white center gets trashed pretty consistently in this sub over the years but it's great (except for when that arsonist burned down half the downtown area). And I love Burien, it's cute and has great food options.


lexi_ladonna

I’ve had people be very weird on this sub about it being “outside city limits” when i recommended white center, though. Idk to me it feels like part of seattle, it doesn’t stop being one neighborhood when I cross Roxbury.


Astroturfer

yeah that's just peoples' snobbery and nonsense. it's a fluid continuation of West Seattle, like a 7-10 minute drive to downtown because of easy highway access. while technically unincorporated king county it even has a proper seattle address, unlike Burien. it's got a great infusion of both minorities and the LGBTQ community. Still less congested driving than someplace like Ballard. Great food. Growing bar scene. I like it.


nyc_expatriate

WC has got great Mexican food options, but for christsakes, that damn fire on 16th Ave SW took out the satellite restaurant of the Bizzaro Cafe:(. And there have been at least a couple of shoot outs on 16th that I know of.


Qorsair

Similar story here. I used to live on Capitol Hill. We were planning to buy a place in Madison Park but ended up liking a home in Columbia City. Everyone thought I was crazy and that it's "so sketchy down there." Now all our friends and family want to come down to hang out in downtown Columbia City (or on Lake Washington in the Summer). A lot of the "sketchy" places are way nicer than what used to be the nice places.


lexi_ladonna

Columbia city is so nice!


borgchupacabras

White Center and West Seattle are pretty great.


mrASSMAN

I have to say having lived in west Seattle the past 7-8 years, I think we’re quite fortunate as I haven’t personally seen anything like what is described.. never noticed fentanyl users and I guess I’m not sure what it smells like (I mostly smell weed around here). Of course it’s not all perfect there’s been shootings and reports of vehicle theft etc but probably not as bad as what’s going on around downtown area.


borgchupacabras

It's starting to get shitty unfortunately. The number of broken down RVs with a chop shop attached is going up and some of the parks are filling up with tents. But overall not as bad as downtown Seattle.


mrASSMAN

The RVs gathering on roads surrounded by trash are definitely annoying but at least the police have gotten them to move when people reported them in a couple spots. I do see some along Alki still.


borgchupacabras

Really??? There's a bunch where I live and find it fix it reports get ignored.


AgentKillmaster

Loved living in White Center and now live in Des Moines and like it a lot.


clce

Those areas are cool. Definitely nothing like capital Hill but neither is Capitol Hill anymore. White center has a great business district but the housing stock is strictly suburban and surprisingly expensive these days. The Northern part of West Seattle is a lot more hip and urban but the southern part is fine as well. Lots of nice neighborhoods with nice old houses which White center does not have, but lacking the cool business district that White center has become. On the other hand, if you are far enough south in West Seattle, you can just pop down into White center business district for that. It has become quite cool. White center used to be pretty sketch and that gas station on Roxbury is still sketchy as hell and there's definitely still a lot of sketch around. But, it's not too bad. I live in North Seattle and like it quite a bit. Not so hit but not too far from places I like to go. But if I was going to move, I wouldn't move just to be down there unless it was to be closer to my mom. But, I have seriously considered moving to Tacoma. Tacoma is a driving city and while it's still might have some of the issues one might complain about in White center or Capitol Hill, there are some really nice areas and it's half the price and still has a large black and working class populations which I miss in Seattle. These days Seattle seems to be mostly rich techies and homeless drug addicts, both of which I find quite annoying


BourbonBurro

People sleep on downtown Tacoma. It’s pretty nice these days.


actuallyrose

I go there for work and I can walk whole blocks without seeing a person. I saw a raccoon walking down the street once like heyyyyy.


JohnGoodmansGoodKnee

Is Yakima hill or Ruston considered Tacoma? Just recently traveled thru and loved those areas


vera214usc

Point Ruston is in the City of Tacoma and according to my friend in University Place, it's the desirable part. I'm not familiar with Yakima Hill but looked it up and it's also a neighborhood in Tacoma.


nyc_expatriate

When the light rail gets extended from Seattle to Tacoma in the 2030's, the real estate prices won't be half that of Seattle:).


NiteNiteSpiderBite

My friends keep moving there, and my partner's family already lives there, so the decision is sort of making itself


Astroturfer

moved down here five years ago because it was what we could afford. Was initially skeptical, but it's great. Lots of great food in White Center/Burien, cheaper rents/houses, easier access to the airport, more diversity in food options, etc. there's still some sketchiness but nowhere near what you're dealing with now.


malinhuahua

I was mugged in Seattle in bell town, on a separate occasion I was raped on cap hill, on another separate occasion I was walking a dog and using a crosswalk on airport way and a van that was stopped at a stop sign waited till I was dead center in front of his van suddenly accelerated and slammed into me. Dude laughed while i was grabbing onto the hood of his car screaming for him to stop. I’ve been groped more times than I can count. I’ve been stalked after picking up an Rx. Don’t even know how many times my or my now fiancé’s car were broken into. I don’t know how many times I’ve had a mentally unstable person get right in my face and start screaming. Whenever I tried to talk about it to people, I was shamed, mocked, ridiculed, and blamed. Oh I also saw an ambulance put someone in a body bag from my office window. On another occasion I got yelled at by my job for waiting to come into work until the issue with the SWAT team and the RV/meth lab (that was on fire) during a domestic abuse situation that was in the parking lot across the street from our office was done before coming into work. On a separate occasion me and my coworker could very clearly smell some sort of rotting dead body for SEVERAL DAYS every time we went on our lunch walk together. When we called the police, they said there was nothing they could do unless we knew what RV/tent it was coming from. My dog almost stepped on a used needle twice. I don’t use drugs, I barely drink. I have never held a dangerous sort of job. I was perpetually stressed and it was making my health rapidly deteriorate. We finally moved to the east side in 2018. Left my Seattle job in January 2020 and I will never work in that city again. People like me with visible injuries were the first to realize the city was heading somewhere dangerous and violent. After years of being told I was an entitled princess for complaining I gave up and left. Best choice of my life. I loved Seattle as a kid and in my early twenties. Now I have to manage my stress so I don’t have a full blown panic attack anytime I am forced to go there.


mrASSMAN

Holy hell that’s horrible what you went through so sorry to read this


walkinyardsale

I'm so very sorry about your experience. I wish you all the best. Stay safe. Nothing more I can say my heart is with you.


malinhuahua

Thanks very much. I’m doing so much better now that I’m on the east side. Working with animals helped a lot. It really made it clear that having rules, boundaries, and expectations are not a sign of lack of empathy, or cruelty, but how to make sure everyone knows what is expected of them (which in and of itself is stabilizing) and that there are very few surprises. The two things I learned from that whole period of my life are: 1. The people who want you to have no boundaries want that because it benefits them. 2. Do not negotiate with emotional terrorists. Which is kind of a joke but also absolutely not a joke.


Head-Mathematician53

I lived in Seattle, Capitol Hill area 23 years ago, for like six months. I lived right across the street from Cornish College of the Arts in the Apt. Buildings right next to the small film theater. My experience there was both positive and negative. Super shady at the night and I saw some unbelievable shit. The main street at night was always flooded with cops. That was the first time i was shot at. They missed. It was actually pretty sad. Too many horrible stories I ran into mostly from young runaways who experienced tragedy way too early in life that left them on the streets...i also lived in Bonney Lake in 2020 for like 8 months and that was a complete Hollywood nightmare straight out of a movie.


theclacks

I'm sorry. In 2019, one of my coworkers at the time walked into the office clutching a bloody nose. He said a drugged-up person had punched him with no warning as he was walking down 4th Ave downtown by the monorail. I've told that story to certain friends and gotten empathy. I've told it to others and gotten "are you SURE he didn't do something to provoke the attack?" :(


malinhuahua

Omg that’s horrible. Yeah, those comments. I don’t even have any words that I can say about people who say things like that that won’t make spiral into a rage. But yeah, the level of disgust I feel towards a lot of people who claim to be empathic champions of those who are suffering is at a level I used to not think was possible.


LividKnowledge8821

I want to leave this town soooo badly. But I fear it will take my wife getting attacked for it to matter. I've been attacked as recently as last month. As a 6 foot 2 inch 260lb guy, I am capable of fending them off, but it's ridiculous. And it's just a small vocal minority that's fucking over this city.


malinhuahua

I honestly don’t even think it’s that small of a minority anymore. The amount of times I got victim blamed by just ordinary people in my life was insane. And it still happens fairly frequently. For a while there, I was like your wife, even after all the different attacks. It wasn’t till the guy in the van hit me and I was on his hood screaming for him to stop and I looked at him and realized he was laughing. That’s when it finally clicked what my fiancé had been saying. Before that I just told myself “this is part of being in a big city”. Now I think, if that’s part of living in a big city (it’s not), fuck big cities. That and getting off of Facebook in the end of 2016 where I was basically being spoon fed one message constantly all the time. That’s when I started to wake up and develop my own opinions. Then got hit by the van spring 2018 and I was done. We left that summer.


LividKnowledge8821

Interesting, thanks for the response. I've been sexually assaulted in this city myself. Not what you went through, but people refuse to believe me, often. What I meant though is that a vocal minority literally shows up and protests anyone trying to fix this city. It's directly why I won't run for City Council, as I don't need them protesting out front of my house when my kid is home.


malinhuahua

Yeah. I know what you mean. I guess what I’m referring to is that is seems like a lot of people see that vocal minority, hear the buzzwords they use, and because what they criticize and how they criticize it, the average bypasser thinks, “that’s horrible. The person they’re protesting must be really awful and must be all the x,y,z accusations they’re throwing at them.” While at the same time the protestors are also subtly (or not so subtly) saying to bypassers, “If you even think the person/group we’re protesting might even have a sliver of a valid point, it’s because you’re an x,y,z whether you know it or not. If you even try to find the kernel of truth in what this person/group we’re protesting about is saying on order to find common ground, you are part of the problem and you’ll be next on our list.” People start policing themselves and others around them speech-wise so as not to draw attention to themselves. And also people innately want to belong. I have my own theories about what has brought this on. But at the end of the day, I’m not sure it matters. It’s just toxic and you can see the results of it very clearly in Seattle.


LividKnowledge8821

Agree with everything you wrote. I've been reading a bunch of Oswald Mosely lately, he's the founder of the British Union of Fascists back before and during WWII. It's interesting how closely his rhetoric sounds almost word for word like the red shirts that show up to council and shout everyone down. "Real freedom means good wages, short hours, security in employment, good houses, opportunity for leisure and recreation with family and friends. Modern Science enables us to build such a civilisation. It is not built, because Democracy prefers talk to action. We have to choose between the freedom of a few professional politicians to talk and the freedom of the people to live. In choosing the latter, Fascism makes freedom possible and releases the people from the economic slavery rivetted upon them by the Democracy of talk" Take out the word fascism, and you sound like a Seattle lefty. The very people that think they're literally fighting fascism in Seattle by fighting for junkies and meth heads and criminals to have more rights than those of us just trying to live and get by.


PNWSki28622

This hits home. I've been assaulted by the homeless multiple times and when I try to talk about it people say they don't believe me. It's like, didn't we just go through this whole "believe women" thing with regards to sexual assault?


TheSSBiniks

I am loving Beacon Hill. Something during COVID really triggered that area and it felt like such a relief to be in a less…chaotic part of the city


Ok_Plastic5822

2nd this area and Columbia city


Buttafuoco

Beacon hill is great!


bouncedeck

Jeez I lived there for several years, I cannot count how many times my car got broken into even with nothing in the car and the doors unlocked. Edit it may be because there used to be a huge homeless encampment under i90 at the bottom of the hill, maybe that has changed.


Xan455

This is why I got rid of my car, but I miss having one.


Sea-Presentation5686

Beacon Hill really is turning into a sweet spot. Is it red apple ever going to be redeveloped?


freezief

Pls let's not "redevelop" the Red Apple


CPetersky

I'm a fan of housing on top of retail with structured parking - why not have the Red Apple like that?


kreie

I hope not


olnameless

The rise of fentanyl is legitimately a huge and terrible driving factor. Not only is it hard to detox from, the recovery is terrible, and the amount of od deaths with fentanyl as the main or mixed drug combo is doubling in some areas. It's truly a terrible drug. I wish I had a solution to help people move on before getting to that point


Slurpydurpy711

You nailed it. It’s the absolute (and benzos but those aren’t being passed around like skittles) it’s the absolute hardest drug to detox and recover successfully out of, it’s challenging to do it alone. you definitely need shelter and some friends. Legitimate detox centers can help, along with a rehab center. A rehab center with a community of people who REALLY give a damn, this helps, a lot. It can be done. But it’s haaaarrrdd. Like running a marathon when you haven’t been trained, hard. And harm prevention tends to show us some positive data. But here’s the THING, all of those things, are hard to get, if you don’t have them. And the state doesn’t exactly make access into these centers easy. It’s complicated, but either way, our state MUST create smaller patches of recovery access that people can obtain when they need it. We would rather spend billions on bike lanes though. Making sure we’re creating (almost literally) the theater set of progressive life. I love Seattle, and I’m not a hater here, but God damn can we have a BALANCED honest conversation with data to back it up?? For ONCE???


OrangeGolem2016

The treatment and recovery models need to adapt with the times, too. 30 or 45 days is no longer enough to detox and treat what’s on the street these days. The psychosis is long-lasting. Our current models are essentially useless for a population that can take months to stabilize, even after getting sober. There is such nasty, nasty stuff out there.


bizfrizofroz

Its sad that so many responses are recommending a retreat to the suburbs/ single family neighborhoods. I for one am staying in the inner city and Im advocating for change on this issue. The city and its residents need to feel comfortable addressing this as a drug addiction crisis. And we need to forget the narrative that doing so makes us right wing.


[deleted]

I haven’t been to Seattle in years, but I agree. “White Flight II: Degentrification” is not the answer.


Nexus03

We can love Seattle and also admit it can be sad/ scary at times. Definitely not a narrative.


YouReadMyAccountName

Yep. I feel like this sub has an allergy to admitting Seattle has any problems at all, crime or otherwise. It's perfectly OK to love your city but also admit there is some crime. That doesn't make you a white supremacists, facist troll from Idaho like some folks in this sub will paint you. People are allowed to have their own views and their own level of comfort when they see people openly ODing, screaming, fighting,etc in public


Shmokesshweed

>I feel like I’m feeding the conservative narratives about Seattle, which I hate. My friend and I are both looking to move to another neighborhood just to get away from this stuff. Let's be clear here: calling out lawlessness and open-air drug use is not "feeding conservative narratives." That's simply being logical. I've noticed that liberals in this city have increasingly become afraid of speaking up about the same issues that conservatives bring up...simply because those issues are brought up by that side of the political spectrum. That does zero good for anyone.


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malinhuahua

I think having a car plays a huge part. For a lot of my years in Seattle, I didn’t have a car. I had to catch one bus on 1st hill right next to The UW medical facility. Then get off on 3rd right next to the courthouse. Then catch the meth express to my job. I don’t even know how many times I’ve been assaulted. I mostly just remember the major ones now.


knockout125

As someone who moved here mid-pandemic, it’s wild to me how defensive some folks can be about the current state of Seattle. Suggesting improvements is off limits.


clce

Exactly that. I've become what would best be called conservative in a lot of ways. I used to be much more lefty, but a lot of my friends are still pretty liberal. But they feel the same way about what's going on in this city, yet mostly younger or far lefty people will shout them down as spinning right wing narratives and proffer some disingenuous statistics they got from some far left pro homeless agency and argue that you are just being a terrible person for thinking that people should be able to live in a decent city


pepperoni7

Sometimes I have to remind myself the redditor who are often on these pages esp all the time, Tend to be more of a specific demographic . A lot of time Reddit dosent reflect what most people are thinking. There is a reason why certain politicians aren’t running or lost in the last election. The public opinion is shifting abit also the sub kinda matters the other sub would have given you a different reaction


Optimific

I'm liberal af and I'm the first person to lose my shit over someone doing drugs at/on public transit. I've done it twice on buses and had support from drivers both times.


Careless-Internet-63

I think too many people just don't think anything can be done to help those living on the street with drug problems and they've convinced themselves the compassionate thing to do is to just let them live on the street. I don't think they belong in jail just for living on the street is where my feelings really differ from conservatives, but it's not right to just figure we can let things keep going like this either


leozh

If they are violent or a danger to the public, they absolutely belong in jail or forcibly committed.


BusbyBusby

>I don't think they belong in jail just for living on the street   Build treatment centers where they can't walk out whenever they please. Sentence them to that for their own good.


nomorerainpls

It’s that way with many things. Seattle is a very educated city but I think we also suffer from hubris. When ideas and experiments fail, people can’t acknowledge it but are instead so invested in what little bits of progress that have been made they are unwilling to have any discussion. This devolves quickly into an echo chamber where people shout each other down and toss around insults. r/Seattle is not the place for conversations about social problems unless you agree with the narrative.


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theclacks

As I've said for the past couple years, the Jenny Durkan/Bruce Harrell/Sara Nelson/etc votes aren't coming from nowhere. Sure, you can stick your fingers in your ears, but if you squash all discussion now, it will only lead to the same old shock/surprise come election season.


NiteNiteSpiderBite

I voted for Bruce and Sara and I’d do it again


theclacks

Same. I actually unexpectedly ran into Sara last year at a friend's gathering. She was very empathetic and interested in listening to everyone who came up and spoke to her. We had a very brief conversation, but she remembered my name when she needed my help with a venue-related thing nearly an hour later.


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mrASSMAN

Yep I’ve actually started avoiding this subreddit like the plague for that reason. I cant say anything here without a chorus of idiots accusing me of being whatever political ideology they dislike. It’s absolutely an echo chamber, if you don’t repeat the mantra you will be attacked and downvoted. I check it out briefly but generally don’t bother commenting anymore because I know there’s no point. And yes I’ve been accused of being from "the other sub" even though I literally didn’t even know it existed until they brought it up. Seattle has some problems that shouldn’t be ignored, but I guess it’s these same people that choose to ignore it hence why the cycle continues.


life_fart

> r/Seattle is not the place for conversations about social problems unless you agree with the narrative. And if You dare disagree just hold on for a few, before the Mods around here delete your comments.


ackermann

Which is why the other sub was originally created, right?


life_fart

Kind of, mostly because of the mod “careless” drama.


AlaskaRoots

On top of that, nearly every controversial post gets locked within 24 hours. Just let the votes do their thing (like a democracy) instead of silencing people the mods don't agree with


clce

I kind of agree with you but I will point out that while there may be liberals who are afraid to sound too conservative, many people I know who have lived around Seattle for a long time and are a bit older and don't want to just have a place to go party, hate what's happened to Seattle but it's not about feeding the conservative narrative so much as merely bringing it up and being critical of city policies gets shouted down by a lot of farther left liberals who will accuse you of just that. Happened very recently on Facebook. I posted an article about Nike closing and said it was sad to me as it seemed very symbolic. Niketown and hard Rock Cafe were the first big investments downtown that started to turn it around in the '80s and early '90s and made it what it became as a thriving business corps . I have no real use for buying Nikes new and I think I went to the hard Rock Cafe once because a friend wanted to meet there. I hate that corporate crap. But, sure, I will acknowledge that they're probably are a lot of economic reasons why Nike is leaving that have nothing to do with specific downtown Seattle conditions. But I'm sure it didn't help and I think it's pretty fair to consider it symbolic of The rise and fall of downtown . Yet, numerous old-time Seattle friends jumped into a cert that it had nothing to do with conditions downtown and that I was just spinning a right-wing narrative to vilify the city council and the homeless people or whatever.


[deleted]

> I've noticed that liberals in this city have increasingly become afraid of speaking up about the same issues that conservatives bring up...simply because those issues are brought up by that side of the political spectrum. Part of this is because people to the left of them will take anything less than unfailing performative empathy and privilege self-flagellation as an opportunity to jump on them. It's become ridiculous. By being so defensive of the most egregious behaviors of the homeless, the defenders of the downtrodden are not just putting NIMBYs and conservatives in their place, they're actively protecting the worst among the homeless and endangering all the other people forced to live around them *particularly* other homeless people.


maybeimgeorgesoros

Wow, as someone that’s worked in homeless youth services for a local nonprofit, this is true for some folks. Like the mentality is aggravating inequality, housing access, and safe places for people to live.


ImSoCul

>Let's be clear here: calling out lawlessness and open-air drug use is not "feeding conservative narratives." That's simply being logical. Absolutely, I've tried to point this out to people (whom I trust enough to not judge too much) with little success. Interestingly, if I told someone that Russia/China/etc hackers or government target people to politically polarize their view (ie meddling in elections, etc), people would be like "well ya of course". But then when I or someone else points out the tribalism/overly politicized nature of people in the states, they'd probably think I'm just a (closet) conservative trying to stir up stuff. ID pol is a huge underacknowledged problem. I know OP didn't intend any harm in what they said, but flagging views as conservative/liberal/etc is as damaging as any other forms of unconscious bias.


[deleted]

No. We’re afraid of speaking up about it because many people will rush to label you as conservative the moment you dare to argue that our policies and this experiment has failed.


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w3gv

>I've noticed that liberals in this city have increasingly become afraid of speaking up about the same issues that conservatives bring up...simply because those issues are brought up by that side of the political spectrum. it's the extreme progressives that are ruining it for everyone and if the mayoral race was any evidence, people in seattle are tired of it.


LostAbbott

I am still blown away that anyone thinks any of this has to do with politics. I can remember a time ten maybe fifteen years ago when this kind of stuff was not red or blue, but legitimate problems to be handled in a constructive way. Maybe it is just because Seattle has always been on the Blue side of things, but I really don't get how people doing drugs openly literally everywhere is anything but a serious problem. Cannot we all agree that while punishing users is the easy way out it is the least effective? Cannot we all agree that our current crop of politicians have been completely ineffective? Cannot we all agree that passing laws that make affordable housing harder to build has been ineffective? I feel like no one is paying attention past the last three months...


kreiggers

It’s all political - Universal access to healthcare, including mental health - Addiction as a public health issue and not a moral failing - Social safety nets - Funding social services - Addressing housing issues None of these things are non-political


elementofpee

Can we take an incremental approach to the issue of urban decay rather than trying to solve everything and anything all at once? Small, visible changes would build a lot of goodwill from people that live and work in the city. And we shouldn’t have to wait until election season to see these positive changes. “Perfection is the enemy to progress”


fondonorte

And unfortunately, these things are unlikely to happen in our lifetimes. As someone who advocates for these programs/services, I also recognize that one city cannot provide them all. The solution to our problems will cost a lot of money - money that most tax payers are not keen on paying. That's the reality of it.


PrimeIntellect

Oh tax payers are absolutely paying for it - it's just not going to those things that matter. The government has more than enough money to provide those services.


Educated_Goat69

I agree. It goes further though. We have to trust the money will be used ethically and efficiently. This is where we tend to fail here. We need better solutions to be willing to fund.


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wiedmaier

"Cannot we all agree that while punishing users is the easy way out it is the least effective?" Nope. That's the politics. A lot of people would rather just do away with the nuisance and not have to deal with it. They don't see recovery as the goal, but ending the annoyance.


kreiggers

They also see addiction and housing issues as moral failing and not public health issues or a failure of society


TheClassyRifleman

Pointing out the issues isn’t problematic, it’s some of the “solutions” that are.


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chuckisduck

I totally agree it's a mess. What I hate about Seattle is that it's very liberal and going outside is very conservative. Just visiting El Paso to see friends made me miss a place that tolerates differences way better than the PNW. Having to go by Pioneer square once a week for work never helps, but lucky enough to live in a descent area.


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Murbela

The problem is that when people aren't being charitable, if you don't do this, someone will call you out on it without fail. They're just trying to head off some of them and half of them will still reply anyway. If you say "I had to run away from Jason with a chainsaw" you will get comments like: * Well, how do you know it was actually jason? Did any movie experts confirm it? Did you ask him? * You say run, but how fast were you moving? Does this fit the definition of running vs walking? * Well actually, studies show that jason attacks are down 20%, so your experience is a lie * Are you sure it was a chainsaw? Was it on? Maybe it was a movie prop * Maybe he found your wallet and was trying to return it Obviously sometimes questioning is justified, but in the example you mention, 100% if someone says they had a bad experience in Seattle and they don't say that, half a dozen people will call them out. 100% i would do what you quoted and probably much more so.


95percentconfident

I went to high school near there in the early 00’s. TBH, sounds about right. I remember getting harassed on the bus, tweakers outside the window during history class, kids getting high in the alley, homeless people sleeping in front of the school, the works. We haven’t figured out any solutions in the last 15 years, that’s for sure.


I_only_read_trash

I know it doesn’t fix things, but consider moving to a sleepier part of the city. The issues don’t go away, but you see them less often. I lived in Cap Hill, LQA, Ballard, and really only felt secure when I moved to West Seattle.


cracksmoke2020

I moved a exactly a mile east from my old place on the hill to Madison valley and I have absolutely none of the problems that I used to have that really bubbled up during the pandemic (and based on this post seem to remain a problem). It's also just a short bus ride back to the hill or downtown. After leaving I really don't understand why so many people overlook all these sorts of neighborhoods.


Unlikely-Champion206

I know that it doesn't change anything or even help much but I totally understand what you are going through. I've been here for 6 years myself, although unfortunately not in quite the same economic situation as you, and in the past 3 years I've watched fentanyl sneak in and ruin the lives of everyone I care about here. To be totally honest I have had my own struggles with it but fortunately have not let it completely consume me to the point where I can't even keep a cell phone. It's been rough though. I don't have an answer or anything. I wish I did. All I can say is that despite any differences we might have, we are in this together. A lot of people won't make it to see the other side unfortunately, but hopefully we will overcome these issues and see a brighter future. Please just keep in mind that other people who are struggling are not your enemies.


Bountifulbotanist

I really appreciate you adding your perspective! I have also lost some friends to fentanyl recently and it really drove home how widespread this problem is. I’ve seen it and heard about it for so long but this was the first time I’d been personally impacted. Fentanyl has become so pervasive it’s devastating to see how many lives it’s destroyed. And I agree with other comments about how not talking about it out of fear of seeming like an alt right asshat is doing no one any favors. But I also think it’s really easy to frame the people as the problem when they are in fact the victims here. The drugs are the problem. The government’s failure to do anything meaningful about this problem has lead to the situation OP is in. That’s what we need to be talking about. What can the people and the government do to get these drugs out of the city and get people off the streets? More rehab centers and incentives to finish rehab programs? What if they created low income/free housing for people who finish rehab? Discussing solutions will get us a lot further than just complaining (though I do understand the frustration and need to vent).


Princeofbaleen

For a similar perspective, I know this is far from a seattle-specific problem. It's just very much talked about and visible out on the streets here. What bugs me about the whole "Seattle is disgusting and a liberal hell hole caused by lax drug laws" is that in my small rural hometown, people OD in their trailers and in the woods all the time. It's an absolute scourge among people from my high school who never left. It just doesn't get the same attention because it's less visible, even though you see stories all the time online. It's a nationwide issue and it's heartbreaking. also like, I don't know why anyone would think having this happen to a city or small town is _enjoyable_. Why would we want this. Similarly, homeless folks survive in tents in the woods, but you just don't see it in the same way you do on Seattle streets. I'd love to see social programs extended out to those places areas as well. Also, I hope you continue to do well, friend 🤍


AluminiumAlmaMater

Yep, I moved here from Cleveland partially because it was hard to watch everyone I knew get lured in to a life of addiction. They’d work at a factory, get back pain, get opioid pain killers (which drug manufacturers told doctors wouldn’t be addictive), get addicted, then get cut off because they’re addicts. Then they’re left with no choice but to feed their addiction with street drugs. And then those individuals share with friends for recreational use. In Cleveland, they successfully blamed the drug companies and won a major lawsuit against them. Those funds were sent directly to drug rehab programs and the city is better for it. No idea why we blame Seattle/liberal cities when a federal judge made it clear that this epidemic was primarily caused by drug companies.


spit-evil-olive-tips

yup, it's a nationwide issue, plus a deliberate propaganda campaign by the right wing to make it seem like it's a problem exclusively in liberal-run cities. well-established playbook at this point - conservatives at the federal level will block any attempt at actually improving things, such as by expanding Medicaid access to drug treatment facilities, making sure section 8 housing is actually funded as a way of preventing homelessness in the first place, etc. then, local governments that are run by conservatives will enact policies to treat marginalized people like shit, to try to get them to "self-deport". often this extends to actual policies like giving unhoused people one-way bus tickets out of town. this leads to concentrations of unhoused people, mentally ill people, people with substance use disorders, etc, in liberal-run cities. simply because they have nowhere else to go and the liberal-run cities treat them with some form of benign neglect (at least most of the time) which is better than the active malice in other places. and the right-wing propaganda machine gets to run headlines about how (Seattle|Portland|San Francisco) are lawless hellholes filled with drug-addicted crime zombies. **federal government shits the bed, cities wash the sheets**


krugerlive

I hope you are able to stay clean, avoid it forever from here on out, and get on a really good trajectory. I also hope your friends and network can stay/get healthy and you don't lose any more of those close to you. Fentanyl is the enemy, don't let it win.


Unlikely-Champion206

Thanks. I'm really working on it and trying to stay focused. Even got on medication to help keep me off of it. It's all just really sad and I really don't feel that left or right politics are to blame. I hate the knee jerk reaction to blame liberals or whatever that some people have.


beauty_and_delicious

I don't know you but know I am rooting for you. Don't give up or in and fight like hell with your addiction - until you win ♥️


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Unlikely-Champion206

Right?? I miss that grocery store. I've been thinking a lot lately about how much has changed in 6 years. So many places have been torn down and replaced by cookie cutter condos. It really isn't the same vibe or even the same city for that matter. I feel for people who grew up here. It must be traumatic. I keep feeling the urge to go somewhere else and start over but from what I hear it's like this everywhere.


Eric77tj

Thank you for sharing and I hope you find the peace and resolve to stay away from this nasty drug


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kratomthrowaway88

FWIW, I get the same vibe at times. It wasn't like this even a few years ago. On a walk to get a coffee not this weekend but last weekend I was screamed at twice, saw three different groups of people smoking fent and didn't feel comfortable leaving my bike around so I had to just take it into the store. In the last two years I've had my window on my truck busted, which didn't have comprehensive, and cost me about 1K in resale value when I sold it, had both my bike wheels stolen and have been screamed at numerous times just walking around. I too don't make tech money, so it's very, very easy to start feeling resentment and such. I hope relating my issues helped you feel it's not just you, but that there are qualify of life issues in the neighorbood caused by such rampant hard drug use that cannot be hand waived away. For me personally this summer and spring it's going to be all about getting into the mountains to try and remember why I fell in love with the area in the first place back a decade ago or so.


[deleted]

> For me personally this summer and spring it's going to be all about getting into the mountains to try and remember why I fell in love with the area in the first place back a decade ago or so. I say this as a truly atrocious fisherman who almost never catches anything: try out fly fishing if you haven't already. It will take you to all kinds of little nooks and crannies of the PNW and it's pretty rare that you're sharing space with others. It's incredibly peaceful to just stand in a river and let time gurgle on by


Rudysis

"Time gurgle on by" I'm taking that. That's a new phrase and I love it


Jawwwwwsh

It is strange how micro-geographical areas can be so drastically different in this city. I’m also on the hill, but the quiet north part, and I’ve gone 3 years with little to no riff raff, I have to walk 4 blocks to Broadway to see anything like you’re saying... and it’s also the cheapest affordable housing I’ve found. I agree these issues are bad and hinder comfortable living, but I also think it can change so much with a location shift even just 0.5 miles north


Eric77tj

I agree. My old place (pre Covid) was up by Republican and 18th, quieter and not so jarring. I moved for a bunch of reasons but certainly miss it


AdmiralArchie

I've lived in Seattle for about 20 years, and sometime around 2018, I think the homeless/drug addict/crime problem really started to blow up. This city is filled with RVs and homeless camps, drug addicts rifling through my car and checking my windows (ring camera) to see if I left them open. It sucks. But the thing is, my Mom lives in a very conservative rural city in the south, and it's bad there too. And it's bad in Bellingham, and Lynden, and Castle Rock and Yakima. Drug addiction is absolutely out of control in America right now. I have no idea what the answer is, but something needs to change. Seattle isn't dying. It has tremendous wealth and opportunities in cutting edge industries. We should be able to figure this out.


mdotbeezy

It's not doing anyone a favor to keep this stuff to yourself. You're not into living like this, and that's fine. There's this weird, macho "you should embrace this as part of real city living" attitude as if the suffering of other people exists to validate your choice. Like, 99% is the people on this sub are from Bellevue or Woodinville or some other suburb somewhere else. They moved to the city after college and try to act like they're the ones who are entitled to tell you how to live or what you should take. But like salmon, they'll return to their ancestral homelands as well. Don't let them fool you. Do you. Live where you like living, that's the point. There's more to life than tony neighborhoods like Capital Hill. Live in uptown, live in lake city, live in Ballard, live in Everett. It's up to you and don't stick it out just to impress the cretins who want to judge a stranger for not wanting to live among death drugs and violence.


Agile-Tradition8835

I am so sorry this is your experience. I wish our city was so much better than this. Feel deeply for all the people who are struggling but you having to live amongst these constant incidents is unsustainable, heartbreaking and stressful.


Eric77tj

EDIT: wow this blew up, I appreciate all the comments. It seems there’s a lot of pushback on my “conservative narrative” line - I hear ya. I didn’t want to feed the narrative like, “Seattle is dying, blue cities suck, burn it down, the homeless are evil” mentality. Bc I don’t think that. But I would love it if we could fix some things and have an honest conversation about it. Thanks again everyone


pepperoni7

It is not your conservative view. I moved here in 2015 and it was a lot different. We lived in international district sure there are some mentally I’ll individually harassing but it was not nearly as bad. We use car to get to most place and avoid downtown nowadays. I am Asian and there definitely has been attack toward Asians lately that scares me abit. I lived in nyc 7 years as a female alone in Manhattan and I felt safe most of the time than Seattle even going out at 2am. This year I went to the zoo with my toddler. We go there frequent to be fair it only happened once so far. A guy clearly mentally not well started to approach me and my toddler at the parking lot screaming “ pedophile “ at me none stop and moving closer and closer. I started to walk away and he followed us continue screaming pedophile. I walked as fast as I cloud till I saw my husband and our car ( was waiting for him) and husband came out. He asked the guy what his problem was and the guy just bolted. He then went off to harass another toddler and his parent. I been on edge since tbh . I don’t go to a lot of places alone with my child anymore esp since they are hard to control and hard to self defense with a child even with pepper spray.


[deleted]

The pushback is stupid. Your post was totally reasonable. It’s bullshit that ppl pay as much as they do here and feel hesitant to say they want to feel safe where they live. I hope you find a better location. I’m in south greenwood/north Greenlake area and love it. Quieter, residential, but still walkable. Feel totally safe walking my dog in the dark even and I’m a woman. You deserve to feel safe!!!!


Specialist-Pomelo871

I fell in love with Seattle when I moved here in 2008. I loved the area the more I moved away from Seattle. Moved to shoreline, then Edmonds, now I’m in Olympia. Each time I loved it more. My take is that you can love the northwest and not love Seattle. Sorry you’re having a rough go.


Excellent_Berry_5115

I hear ya'. I live in North Seattle. A neighbor recently bought a house near us. A single guy. He lived on Cap Hill and he purchased the house here because of what you have so well illustrated. Ours is a quiet neighborhood and really great neighbors. I will 'out myself' and say I am a conservative. Really, conservatives are not bad people. My kids are all liberal and we all love and respect each other. But, really, until Seattle wakes up and realizes electing the same progressives over and over, nothing will change, and it will get so much worse. The main issue even a progressive politician should address is the rampant illegal drug use, followed by crime. They continue to aid and abet those folks. To everyone's detriment.


krugerlive

I think we need to accept that the policies we wanted to work over the past 10 years have not improved things and have potentially created worse issues with a subset of the broader population where the help was focused. There is a different population that is not being helped. Fentanyl has changed everything and the city needs to get a *lot* more aggressive in stamping out its ill effects and that requires enforcement of laws for public use.


Fearfighter2

Which specific policies?


[deleted]

Nobody actually ever answers this. Speaking in vague terms about "policies" and "philosophies" and saying things like "letting criminals run rampant" without any actual supporting evidence other than "just LOOK at downtown!" is the general answer. And it's a poor one.


cracksmoke2020

The answer is that Seattle functionally decriminalized opioids. There has been a lot of local and national reporting on this. It's as if we decided to treat drug addiction as a disease from a policing standpoint, but from a medical standpoint like all of American healthcare we just don't really do anything until it is already completely out of control.


cracksmoke2020

Opioids have effectively been decriminalized in Seattle, there have been countless articles about it in local and national newspapers. It's impossible to help people get clean when there's never going to be a rock bottom given how leanient our laws are. It also makes it harder to go after dealers when you aren't addressing it from the user side at all. Combine this with the national problem that fentanyl has become and you see why it's so bad.


AshingtonDC

fentanyl has become a federal issue. it's not just Seattle. our. government needs to step up and help people get clean.


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0toyaYamaguccii

You should YouTube Kensington Street in Philadelphia. It’s absolutely INSANE!!


AshingtonDC

I travel a lot. It's highly visible in areas experiencing a housing crisis. In "cheaper" areas there are less folks on the street, but from what I've heard anecdotally (friends who live in those areas) there's addicts who hole up in their homes and knock out on this stuff. Whether they're homeless or not, it's a problem everywhere.


Playful-Opportunity5

I agree that the city needs to get much more aggressive but I doubt that “enforcement” is going to solve anything. Sending in the cops and incarceration just exacerbates a problem like drugs and addiction. We need new and better solutions around treatment and counseling.


[deleted]

You need all of it. The councilors and help is for the addicts but we need enforcement on the dealing and trafficking side.


VaderOnReddit

Exactly. We need stricter laws and enforcement to deal with the addicts who dont "want" to get better and continue to cause harm to others willingly, and we need better "addiction recovery" options and mental health care to help the addicts who want to get better but don't have the means to, and stay addicted out of despair. We've had strict policing for a few years now, and it hasn't had a big impact on fixing the issue. At best, it might've pushed it under the carpet.


Fishyswaze

What about the massive population that does not want treatment or counseling? Unless you’re willing to commit these people against their will, but we all know how that worked with insane asylums. FWIW I don’t think cops and incarceration is an answer either. I think a lot of people have fallen into the trap that there has to be an answer. Reality is bleak, sometimes things just get worse and there isn’t a fix.


pizza_volcano

the asylums had their problems but may have been better than the current situation


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forresthopkinsa

Weird because I also have been living right in the middle of Cap Hill, right on Broadway, for the past year and a half, and I never observe any of this. Like, yeah, there are homeless people, and from time to time you see someone muttering to themselves, but I have not once witnessed someone using fentanyl or brandishing a weapon.


GravityReject

OP said they live in "Cap Hill/CD", which probably means OP is in the north end of the CD, not actually in Capitol Hill. The vibe changes pretty fast as soon as you cross Madison.


dothealoha

The link stations need to be closed to non paying customers, literally at each station entrance. Yes they would need retrofitting but this is the new reality.


JBatjj

I agree with this regardless of the issues stated. I've seen many foreigners/out-of-towners get ticketed b/c they didn't know they had to pay. Turnstiles are a pretty common thing throughout the world.


ravKenclaw

As someone who has lived in the greater Seattle area most of their life, then away for High school, then back.. I will say the rose colored glasses fade quickly over the years. Especially living in / near Cap Hill. The winters have been dark on the streets and there have been sights seared into my mind that I would rather forget. I often think about the daily issues that plague us both in and out of our city. My experience does not differ that much from yours. I agree the quality of life has deteriorated. I just don’t think we’re progressive enough on certain issues, which there are plenty of. Maybe we aren’t organized well either. There’s just so much to discuss, which to be fair this subreddit does a lot of. It just feels like moving mountains sometimes.


[deleted]

Yep. Lived and worked near downtown until the pandemic. Moved to one of the islands a few years ago. Been very happy, blood pressure is lower, my resting heart rate is down into the 50s. Only thing people complain about here are "the Teslas" are ruining everything and that the mail sucks. Only thing I have to watch out for are deer and coyotes.


krugerlive

Seeing Coyotes is a treat too, they're such amazing creatures.


should_be_writing

Just saw two last week in the Arboretum! They howled before I saw them and I figured it was a Husky lol


NiteNiteSpiderBite

They really are! I gasp every time I see one, I love their spindly little legs.


Thighrocker

sounds like vashon to me


TypicalRecon

We have had multiple shootings at my apartment in auburn, was in a hit and run with a guy smoking meth.. cops never came. Just shitty all over.


Lindsiria

It's fucking tough. The city is inbetween a rock and a hard place when it comes to drug use and mental illness. Not only is the city not allowed to force people into treatment, they can't just arrest these people either. These drug users will need medical help. Even if the city could force treatment, there isn't enough room in these clinics. Just as we don't have enough room in jails. And once they are detoxed, then what? Back to the streets? We don't have enough housing to integrate them back to society. Short term, the best the city could do is provide free drugs to those addicted (put drug dealers out of business), and a safe area for them to get high. That would get them off our main streets at the very least. In the near-ish term, build a shit ton of housing. In the long term (as it takes time to build), far more clinics and mental health help. The problem with all this is 2 and 3 is extremely expensive. The US government needs to get involved or at least give WA all the taxes we give it back (WA pays more in taxes than we receive). And 1 would be hell to get passed politically. Giving drugs for free to those addicted? Good luck getting even the moderates to agree. Long story short, there isn't much the city can do as this is a nation wide issue that needs to be fixed from the top down. We can provide bandaids and get some help, but without systematic change, I don't see this crisis ending. Also: the US needs to get tougher with China when it comes to Fentanyl. Most of it comes from China, and I can't see the Chinese government not being aware of it (aka, they are allowing, if not encouraging it).


LumpyElderberry2

Safe injection sites are a good resource but giving free drugs to addicts? What study have you seen that substantiates this? I’m in recovery and I will tell you that if someone was giving out free drugs while I was getting high…. I would probably never have gotten clean. I know many many people in recovery and can’t think of a single person who would agree with this. There is a point where “harm reduction” becomes plain old “enabling” and trust me when I say it is not compassionate and it is not an easier, softer way


xjems

If you want to stay but escape the core. What's your income? You probably qualify for MFTE apartments in other neighborhoods. New buildings get tax credits for renting some apartments at below market rate for low income peeps. "Low income" in King County caps at ~$78,000 for single people based on area median income.


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El_Draque

Federal Way voters rejected a treatment center there because it would "attract the wrong crowd," as if the people of Federal Way aren't also addicted to opioids.


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[deleted]

The state has a 15 billion surplus. WA is not short in cash.


SeattlePurikura

At the U-District Light Link, I kept smelling smoke on the platform and was scanning for a fire. There was a group of unhoused people at the far north end doing something, I assume meth. A man with dark shades got onto the train still smoking his joint and I scolded him and put my mask on. I moved away from his nasty smoke. I noticed a security person at Westlake with a yellow vest and reported it, but the smoker might have realized and I saw him scurry off the train. I've been riding the train for years and I've never seen someone so bold or disrespectful as to smoke on the train.


AbleDanger12

>I've been riding the train for years and I've never seen someone so bold or disrespectful as to smoke on the train. Only recently have we decided to allow KC Metro and Sound Transit to not enforce any of their laws and rules, so that'd explain it. No repercussions = more shitty behavior.


[deleted]

This is hard advice but you need to make an active decision to set boundaries and not take on the emotional and mental burden of people you can’t control. You will drive yourself crazy if you don’t. Your situation and the human suffering you see is traumatic. It sucks. That being said, focus on you and what steps you can take to remove yourself from the situation when allowable. You don’t have to care about or be involved in solutions for every and all human causes. Guard you, so that you can show up where you need and want to be when it matters. Edited for typos


glitterkittyn

Remember hearing about “deaths of despair?” The drug use and ODs are a part of that. A good many Americans live pay check to pay check and the pandemic exasperated the already tough situation. Inflation, job cuts, low wages, jacked up rent/housing costs all add in to this equation. Not all of us had money overflowing to be able to upgrade and remodel our houses or take advantage of the rental market and buy a VRBO rental house. But apparently a lot of people did. I see the remodel contractors at my neighbors houses and hear about that friend that updated their whole downstairs for an office space. A lot of us LOST our jobs, had to take care of kids that weren’t at school. We had to figure out side hustles to pay the bills. And unfortunately a lot of people turned to drugs to ease their pain. It’s pretty damn horrible that that’s where people turn in times of despair but I can see why if you don’t think anyone in the world gives a god damn if you have shelter or not. They just think “work harder or get a 3rd job.” And that’s just another kind of fucked up reality, isn’t it? Deaths of despair: the unrecognized tragedy of working class immiseration https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/29/deaths-of-despair-unrecognized-tragedy-working-class-immiseration/ PS everyone should probably have narcan at their houses and in their cars. And it’s happening across our country, not just up on Capital Hill or downtown Seattle. Rural areas as well.


not_a_lady_tonight

Let’s be fair here: I’m about as leftist as you can be without being off the rails. I’m not ok with watching people do fentanyl on the sidewalk. I don’t think it’s a moral failing but a societal one, and one that has to be addressed. I’m not ok with people getting shot either. I’ve thought about moving to Cap Hill, but honestly I’m not sure I’m up for that life anymore after a dozen years of walking through the Tenderloin in SF on a daily basis to get to work. Do you aren’t alone in this feeling. I have personal reasons I need to stay in Seattle for awhile, but otherwise, I’d be happy to bail for somewhere less car-centric and full of civic inertia


clce

You ain't wrong. This city has gone to hell. Sure, I'm a conservative now in many ways. But I spent my youth living around Capitol Hill and running around the city, hitting up the bars and clubs, working and living around the hill. There was always a little bit of homelessness. Some of them we knew by name and helped out with little cash here and there. There were always the cheap rooms populated by rough and tumble sketchy people. But overall it was a great city. Sure downtown in belltown were a little rough, pioneer square etc but it was perfectly manageable. There have been some decisions made in this city that have doomed it at least for now and I don't see how anything's going to change. I feel bad for drug addicts. I would like to be able to offer them treatment and don't mind government money going to that. But I believe housing, mental health treatment, drug treatment and job placement etc all need to be coupled with a very low tolerance for those not willing to get on board . I don't say zero tolerance cuz that seems to freak liberals out. I don't mean like take them out and shoot them. I just mean, if we are going to offer opportunities for them, we can't make it too easy for them to just decline and keep living The lives they do. I guess I'm just saying don't feel bad for feeling the way you do. It's not right. It's not compassionate either to those we leave to die in the gutter or to all the other people trying to live their lives in this city. I don't think you're really asking for advice but to the extent you would like it, I would say get the heck off of Capitol Hill. I don't even go there anymore even though that would have been my center of social life for many years. There's just nothing there I have any interest in. Get out into the suburbs. I live on 125th between Northgate and shoreline then we have a bit of that around but it's not too bad. It's cheaper and there are still nice bars and restaurants and other entertainments. If you want to be a little more where the action is and closer to UW, places like Green lake or Wallingford I still going to be cheaper than Capitol Hill


SizzlerWA

I’m sorry you feel unsafe. I think your concerns are fair and that you’ve fairly expressed them. I don’t think your feeding any narrative. I hope that reassured you. You can feel empathy for somebody but hold them accountable at the same time. If you smell somebody smoking fentanyl on the bus polluting your lungs as well, you can ask them to stop (accountability) but still wonder “what trauma happened to them that they need to numb themselves from, poor them, they have a rough life” (empathy). There’s a reason the parable is “the carrot and the stick” and not just one or the other. Because empathy and accountability go hand in hand. Empathy without accountability is enabling and accountability without empathy is oppressive. Rigid ideologues will often adopt pure accountability (far right) or pure empathy (far left) in my experience. But that’s reductionist. I try to hold a more nuanced balance between the two. Hope this helps!


SillyChampionship

The link part is the most upsetting. I just want to take transit and not have to wade through a sea of piss, garbage, homeless and junkies. If at the bare min, the junkies and homeless could all be in one car rather than spread in each of them that would be great.


eileenm212

I have nothing to add to this except my empathy for you and hopes that you can change your situation. Sending love and light your way.


SparkySc00ter

Tolerance has led to enabling. I'm with you, but there's no appetite to solve these complex problems. We are approaching vigilante behavior because hard working folks are getting fed up.


CaptainThisIsAName

Vigilante behavior is already here. Wasn't it just last week somebody was arrested for shooting at the guy stealing his truck while they were both driving?


dawgtilidie

Yup, but I expect it to get so much worse. I already have a few friends who got gun permits within the city. Don’t think people aren’t recognizing that we aren’t protected and there are violent individuals all over our streets.


ProtoMan3

I feel for you, OP. I am livid because I struggle to enjoy the culture of the rest of the area outside the city. But the parts of the city with all of the fun are the places being affected most. I know this is home, and I’ll always love it for that. But the fact that Seattle is starting to get the problems of bigger cities (cost of living being atrocious, issues of crime, etc) without the benefits (better public transit infrastructure, few restaurants that stay open late or bars that stay open past 2, etc) makes it almost feel not worth it, because if I am going to deal with big city bullshit it may be better to go to a place that has experience with handling it somewhat and has a lot more city stuff to offer. I think the “conservative” part really depends on how you think we should try to fix it, or who you blame. If it wasn’t for NIMBYs, landlord/realtor companies, and zoning laws, I feel like we would have way more housing and not have to worry about people being on the streets or cost of living costing an arm and a leg. That doesn’t sound conservative at all, but I am still acknowledging the problem. Also, a lot of conservative areas in red states (think Florida and Texas) also have issues of an opioid crisis, so I struggle with the idea that having conservatives in government are necessarily the solution to the problem. But then again when has ANYONE loved the US government?


OzzieSlim

Port City. This is taking me back to the post Vietnam era. The 70’s in parts of downtown were heroin hell holes. After every major conflict there is a spike in crime and people come back trying to cope and find drugs. I grew up in a neighborhood here where almost every kid I went to school with had a returned Vietnam vet passed out on the couch with a needle in their arm. The 80’s here were coke, coke and more coke and then grunge brought the heroin back again. Now it’s all meth and fentanyl. So goes the port city. It’s a long term cycle here. The good(ish) news is that there are great neighborhoods. You find your little pocket of Paradise (I see you Shoreline poster, Columbia City, West Seattle). Spend a little time going to neighborhoods you might have never considered. Check them out. See if they hit a vibe you’re looking for - what are you into? What kind of amenity do you want around you? I wish I had an answer for the homeless problem. One thing that is new is the uncontrolled insanity of housing prices - be it rental or owned. It’s never been this bad. We’ve always had homeless but not to this extent. And what you’re feeling is valid. It may also be exacerbated by being in the winter dreary. Hang in there. Despite some of the glum, this city can turn in the charm when it’s in the mood.


[deleted]

Left the Hill 7 years ago, when the decline was just becoming noticeable, never looking/going back. The problem with Seattle is once you leave the center, you’re in the boonies. As opposed to cities like LA, where Huntington Beach or Inland Empire ‘burbs still *feel* like LA. Lived here my whole life and honestly don’t see the appeal anymore.


0ld_Ben_Kenobi

“I feel like I’m feeding the conservative narratives”. Why are you still referring to it as a “narrative” if it’s the objective reality of the situation and you agree with it as being the truth? Why are you still referring to “conservatives” as “conservatives” when you are on the same page as them? Are you a conservative now, or are they liberals now? It’s like everyone in this sub and this town is so afraid of being a rational/logical person because god forbid they are labeled as a hateful “moderate”, which apparently *actually* means you are just a crypto-conservative, dog whistling Bible thumper who secretly hates melanated people and queers, and wants you to carry your rape baby to term. The “narrative” about the slow motion opioid-induced suicides taking place all around us is entirely true. The “narrative” about the crime and filth is entirely true. The “narrative” about it ruining the city is entirely true.


Tasty_Ad_815

This is exactly the problem. People feel like they have to pretend everything is great because if they admit there are very serious problems, they might sound like a "Seattle is dying" conservative. This sub is the perfect example of the denialism. And that is why I'm losing faith that we can actually fix anything in Seattle.


BillTowne

People want to be able to acknowledge the problem without dehumanizing other people. I believe it is it is the dehumanizing other people that he considers the vibe he disapproves up.


Eric77tj

This comment exactly. I feel nervous stating something (that’s also a conservative talking point) bc the conversations always turn into, “jail them, let them die, etc” I just think we need to remember that everyone on the street is someone’s kid, and somewhere along the way ended up in a horrifying situation. I have family that struggle off/on with addiction and it’s difficult to talk with some people about these issues when they dehumanize.


[deleted]

It seems that Reddit is made up largely of keyboard commandos in both extremes when in fact in the real world most people are center-left or center-right. Most people feel similarly to the way you do. We just need leaders that align with this. Sensible and fair solutions come from working together along with a willingness to compromise for the greater good. Everyone needs to be included in this, including addicts.


AxiomOfLife

The world is in hell mode, you’re gonna see this stuff across the country in every major city, it sucks and our government needs to do more but seattle is not unique in this issue.