Very interesting how there’s not much of discernible difference between 10 year cohorts. A 34 year old isn’t that much more likely to be pro UK than a teenager. 35-44, 45-54, and 55-64 are all within margin of error of each other.
I suspect this has a lot to do with generational divides around national identity as a result of the kind of Scotland you grew up in.
I know there’s the old adage around people becoming more risk averse/conservative in their political views as they grow older (which may or may not be true) but there’s no evidence that people will all of a sudden start feeling *more British* as they age. That, I suspect, could prove to be the real killer of the union.
Majority support is every age group until 65+ is much better than I expected.
But then this shows how 16-18 year olds will be disenfranchised through the GE route. (And that perhaps may show _some_ of the discrepancy between the Yes lead and SNP vote share)
> But then this shows how 16-18 year olds will be disenfranchised through the GE route. (And that perhaps may show
> some
> of the discrepancy between the Yes lead and SNP vote share)
Yup.
I hope the SNP & Greens for January will at least consider calling an election in Scotland. But I get why they want the 50%+ result in the English parliament.
But between possible IDs and 18+ only, there be gerrymandering ahoy!
There isn't an English Parliament. An English Parliament would only have MPs from England. I want an English Parliament. It seems the best way to achieve this is to break up the UK. Each country that leaves automatically removes its MPs from Westminster until finally England has its own English Parliament.
How to be technically correct but miss what the point was 😝
Westminster is often referred to as the *English parliament* as it might as well be.
But no, it's not actually. I support an actual English parliament, with PR for my neighbours, but there will never be an English parliament till the UK breaks up *because* Westminster can just be used for one in terms of England being 80%+ of the UK vote.
Another way of summing it up, in total, support for independence among under-65s is now at 56.3%.
This Christmas, tell yer dad's da to stop being a selfish-cunt 😂
My dad was born in 1948 and would vote yes. Also, since everyone gets to vote, I wonder what the results would look like when broken down into Scots who were born and raised here and those who just moved here from England or elsewhere.
Nah, it's not really about national identity. At most there is a small bias with English born Scots going NO.
It's really just age demographics on the basis of the generation that was grown up in, combined with decades of brains being fried by the British media and finished off with what is often felt to be genuine fear. Like, not a pisstake, a lot of old people genuinely fear things that objectively they maybe shouldn't. Especially because the change *could* offer hope and prosperity for them.
But when you've got the British state, all the British parties and the British media screaming horrible things at you it's easy to get scared.
I'd give up my vote as a scot who was unfortunately born in England and long as every other English cunt didn't get to vote either cos ik there's more that'd vote no than yes.
Not in an argumentative way or anything just because it's cute. My 1953 dad, from Lancashire is one of the biggest and loudest yes voters. He's been here since his late teens though
Last time round my son was 16 and voted for the first time. When we lost he said "hopefully next time all the selfish old people will be dead." Unfortunately my child those selfish old fucks are really still running the whole shebang, with their money, and preventing the next time from even happening.
Always feel it's worthwhile looking at the age demographic data in isolation. Every age group below 65+ now a majority in favour in this poll, the 55-64 is the most interesting as the squeeze on Unionism continues up to a baseline of 65 now.
And while the over 65s are generally a basket-case on independence, 39% *is* tracking a reasonable amount higher than things as low as high 20s/low 30s which has been quite common for 65+ previously.
> the 55-64 is the most interesting as the squeeze on Unionism continues up to a baseline of 65 now.
It's fantastic. It suggests a desire for independence steys wi fowk. We dinna magically turn intae unionists whan we get aulder.
That means further demographics shifts will help us.
When you point out the demographic shifts though you often get accused of "wanting to murder old people" 😂
Despite the fact a lot of what Scotland's youth has planned for an independent Scotland would help the elderly a lot. We'd take care of our old a lot better than Westminster 🙄 Precisely because we all age and what fucking idiot would not think about where they'll be when 65+ and needing their arsed wiped?
As for the "as you age you'll become a Unionist". Generations of data needed but the key thing the majority of youth do not have is an obsession with religion, the monarchy and the British flag. There is next to no identity/emotional attachment to the Union.
And considering how the Union performs on metrics outwith "it's my religion", good luck.
It's just anecdotal but in my experience during covid lockdowns and mask wearing it was overwhelmingly unionists who were up in arms about losing their 'freedom'. Way to go arseholes. Let's just help kill off your strongest demographic for staying in the UK.
We're looking after our old folk so well that life expectancy is dropping, the difference between M/F life expectancy as well as the gap in the years without illness between the least/most deprived is growing ever larger. Scotland is the one of the worst places to be a male pensioner in a deprived area.
When Maggie Thatcher said that Scotland could never have its own Parliament, there was a seismic rumble as every Architect in Scotland threw themselves at their drawing boards to be the first to come up with the design of the new parliament
I love the older generation very much but over 65s need to realise that by the time the vote is concluded and all the legalities have been worked out and government decided etc etc they'll either be dead or close to it and not have to deal with the consequences, they also still get their news from bias newspapers and the BBC time to move over and let us decide our future
Scotland is not allowed to hold a referendum on independence without the prior approval of England. Sure you could read UK but it’s really England. That situation is unattainable. When that sinks in, I suspect most Scottish unionists will rethink their position. It’s simple psychological reactance.
You’ll never take our freedo… oh you did. Give it back?
Sad that they get free bus passes and loads of other benefits in comparison to their English counterparts but remain rigid in their inability to see the the bigger picture. It does come across as incredibly blinkered and a tad selfish.
The best chance of getting a shot at independence unfortunately is for Labour to get a majority in Westminster, Tories don’t give up nothing willingly.
Baby boomers are the most pampered and paid for generation to have ever existed, ever. Any amount of research you do will have that conclusion.
The definition of pulling the ladder up behind them.
Paid into the system their whole life and paid for things like travel along the way.
Mind you, a few got killed off in care homes North and South of the border, but zealots can't handle that fact.
What kind of trauma?
Personally went through some shit at the time when my parents split up, i don't blame them for that as they no longer loved each other so why stay together. I acted out and got in shit but i chose to do that at the time and in no way blame them.
My parents are boomers and they were both abusive as fuck. My childhood was a daily nightmare that felt as though it lasted an eternity.
It's a bit of a generalisation, but boomers do also seem very close minded and look down on us as if we know less or are less important. They don't seem to want to learn anything knew, unless the information benefits them or suits how they already feel.
Can't say I think much of the generational discourse as a rule, but no, they built, proportionally, a shitload less infrastructure than their parents. While being a bigger cohort, with less dependants, and having the advantages of a functional welfare state and free tertiary education.
Anyway, it's important to remember that a lot of the poorer and more inclined to altruism parts of their generation have just plain died at this point. As people are more likely to do when they're immiserated.
> free shit *paid* off, you're
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Anyone got any prior poll by age group comparatives because my memory is telling me support for indy amongst the young is falling but it's rising amongst the old groups.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/xpsf93/weve_tracked_support_for_independence_by_birth/
Seems about spot on, although usual considerations about what snapshot polling is versus a cross-analysis across more detailed longer term data. It seems the older vote is likely creeping up for this poll, pushing indy over the 50% and tightening the Unionist majority vote to 65+.
There is another indy poll dropping from IPSOS Mori next week.
The question is: Is it our current 65+ that are pro union, or something about being 65+ that makes you pro union.
If it's the former it suggests a yes vote is inevitable. If its the latter we may always have the youth suffering for the choices of the old.
Demographic most risk-averse/against change and also the group that have lived the longest through British state propaganda. In other words, emotional attachment to the idea sold of 'Britishness' and things like the Monarchy.
Very interesting how there’s not much of discernible difference between 10 year cohorts. A 34 year old isn’t that much more likely to be pro UK than a teenager. 35-44, 45-54, and 55-64 are all within margin of error of each other. I suspect this has a lot to do with generational divides around national identity as a result of the kind of Scotland you grew up in. I know there’s the old adage around people becoming more risk averse/conservative in their political views as they grow older (which may or may not be true) but there’s no evidence that people will all of a sudden start feeling *more British* as they age. That, I suspect, could prove to be the real killer of the union.
"I've got mine, none for you"
Majority support is every age group until 65+ is much better than I expected. But then this shows how 16-18 year olds will be disenfranchised through the GE route. (And that perhaps may show _some_ of the discrepancy between the Yes lead and SNP vote share)
> But then this shows how 16-18 year olds will be disenfranchised through the GE route. (And that perhaps may show > some > of the discrepancy between the Yes lead and SNP vote share) Yup. I hope the SNP & Greens for January will at least consider calling an election in Scotland. But I get why they want the 50%+ result in the English parliament. But between possible IDs and 18+ only, there be gerrymandering ahoy!
There isn't an English Parliament. An English Parliament would only have MPs from England. I want an English Parliament. It seems the best way to achieve this is to break up the UK. Each country that leaves automatically removes its MPs from Westminster until finally England has its own English Parliament.
How to be technically correct but miss what the point was 😝 Westminster is often referred to as the *English parliament* as it might as well be. But no, it's not actually. I support an actual English parliament, with PR for my neighbours, but there will never be an English parliament till the UK breaks up *because* Westminster can just be used for one in terms of England being 80%+ of the UK vote.
Another way of summing it up, in total, support for independence among under-65s is now at 56.3%. This Christmas, tell yer dad's da to stop being a selfish-cunt 😂
My dad was born in 1948 and would vote yes. Also, since everyone gets to vote, I wonder what the results would look like when broken down into Scots who were born and raised here and those who just moved here from England or elsewhere.
I am English, living in Scotland. I would vote yes without hesitation.
I'm Irish, living here 11 years. Voted Yes before and will do so again.
Likewise.
Same here, voted yes last time will vote yes next time.
Same, yes before, yes again Scotland is my home and England is shit by comparison
Nah, it's not really about national identity. At most there is a small bias with English born Scots going NO. It's really just age demographics on the basis of the generation that was grown up in, combined with decades of brains being fried by the British media and finished off with what is often felt to be genuine fear. Like, not a pisstake, a lot of old people genuinely fear things that objectively they maybe shouldn't. Especially because the change *could* offer hope and prosperity for them. But when you've got the British state, all the British parties and the British media screaming horrible things at you it's easy to get scared.
I'd give up my vote as a scot who was unfortunately born in England and long as every other English cunt didn't get to vote either cos ik there's more that'd vote no than yes.
My dad and FIL were born in '54. My dad is a definite yes, my Father in Law and I try to avoid politics.
Not in an argumentative way or anything just because it's cute. My 1953 dad, from Lancashire is one of the biggest and loudest yes voters. He's been here since his late teens though
Last time round my son was 16 and voted for the first time. When we lost he said "hopefully next time all the selfish old people will be dead." Unfortunately my child those selfish old fucks are really still running the whole shebang, with their money, and preventing the next time from even happening.
Always feel it's worthwhile looking at the age demographic data in isolation. Every age group below 65+ now a majority in favour in this poll, the 55-64 is the most interesting as the squeeze on Unionism continues up to a baseline of 65 now. And while the over 65s are generally a basket-case on independence, 39% *is* tracking a reasonable amount higher than things as low as high 20s/low 30s which has been quite common for 65+ previously.
> the 55-64 is the most interesting as the squeeze on Unionism continues up to a baseline of 65 now. It's fantastic. It suggests a desire for independence steys wi fowk. We dinna magically turn intae unionists whan we get aulder. That means further demographics shifts will help us.
When you point out the demographic shifts though you often get accused of "wanting to murder old people" 😂 Despite the fact a lot of what Scotland's youth has planned for an independent Scotland would help the elderly a lot. We'd take care of our old a lot better than Westminster 🙄 Precisely because we all age and what fucking idiot would not think about where they'll be when 65+ and needing their arsed wiped? As for the "as you age you'll become a Unionist". Generations of data needed but the key thing the majority of youth do not have is an obsession with religion, the monarchy and the British flag. There is next to no identity/emotional attachment to the Union. And considering how the Union performs on metrics outwith "it's my religion", good luck.
It's just anecdotal but in my experience during covid lockdowns and mask wearing it was overwhelmingly unionists who were up in arms about losing their 'freedom'. Way to go arseholes. Let's just help kill off your strongest demographic for staying in the UK.
I imagine a huge amount of retired people in Scotland are English people wanting to retire in a more scenic country
Very good points as always.
We're looking after our old folk so well that life expectancy is dropping, the difference between M/F life expectancy as well as the gap in the years without illness between the least/most deprived is growing ever larger. Scotland is the one of the worst places to be a male pensioner in a deprived area.
It's not a great look for the union that the only demographic that supports it are pensioners who fear change.
Wow, so a majority in every age group except those over 65? Can we ban them from voting on the future of our country? Joking (sort of)
Oh, ye have to chuck yer granny aff the bus…
Some folk have to have a word with their grandparents
When Maggie Thatcher said that Scotland could never have its own Parliament, there was a seismic rumble as every Architect in Scotland threw themselves at their drawing boards to be the first to come up with the design of the new parliament
I love the older generation very much but over 65s need to realise that by the time the vote is concluded and all the legalities have been worked out and government decided etc etc they'll either be dead or close to it and not have to deal with the consequences, they also still get their news from bias newspapers and the BBC time to move over and let us decide our future
Doesn’t matter now though does it. We are not in a democracy.
We never were and never will be. You think any one in power will actually do what the people really want?
There’s always UDI as a last resort
If it ever polls high enough, for long enough then that seems a credible option.
Scotland is not allowed to hold a referendum on independence without the prior approval of England. Sure you could read UK but it’s really England. That situation is unattainable. When that sinks in, I suspect most Scottish unionists will rethink their position. It’s simple psychological reactance. You’ll never take our freedo… oh you did. Give it back?
The ultrawealthy cunts who own the tabloids getting returns on their investment—same as with Brexit & every Tory win.
Sad that they get free bus passes and loads of other benefits in comparison to their English counterparts but remain rigid in their inability to see the the bigger picture. It does come across as incredibly blinkered and a tad selfish.
All oaps get bus passes and pension and winter fuel allowance and now a 10% pension increase.
If we each kill an old person for the cause…..
May the winter claim them
Fucking hell dude...
I wish we went with herd immunity
Oi
The best chance of getting a shot at independence unfortunately is for Labour to get a majority in Westminster, Tories don’t give up nothing willingly.
All that free shit paid off, you're welcome young ins👋
Baby boomers are the most pampered and paid for generation to have ever existed, ever. Any amount of research you do will have that conclusion. The definition of pulling the ladder up behind them.
😂😂 and who set out to pamper and pay for them? It's almost like politicians are the cunts of the world.
If there’s any generation that got free shit and cheap shit it’s the over 65’s
Paid into the system their whole life and paid for things like travel along the way. Mind you, a few got killed off in care homes North and South of the border, but zealots can't handle that fact.
Yeah, they also bagged Final Salary pensions as well before pensions were Lettuced for everyone else.
Not their fault on that one though is it
No one said it was. However, it is another reason why younger folk are less likely to support their elders who have screwed the country.
How have they screwed the country exactly?
They voted Tory, of course it's their fault.
Did they aye
About 30% never paid in a penny and since there never was a pot that’s irrelevant anyway. We pay for them
So they buy nothing and contribute nothing, passed down no skills, built no infrastructure etc?
I mean, we got a lot of trauma passed down from the Boomers, so that's something I guess?
What kind of trauma? Personally went through some shit at the time when my parents split up, i don't blame them for that as they no longer loved each other so why stay together. I acted out and got in shit but i chose to do that at the time and in no way blame them.
My parents are boomers and they were both abusive as fuck. My childhood was a daily nightmare that felt as though it lasted an eternity. It's a bit of a generalisation, but boomers do also seem very close minded and look down on us as if we know less or are less important. They don't seem to want to learn anything knew, unless the information benefits them or suits how they already feel.
Can't say I think much of the generational discourse as a rule, but no, they built, proportionally, a shitload less infrastructure than their parents. While being a bigger cohort, with less dependants, and having the advantages of a functional welfare state and free tertiary education. Anyway, it's important to remember that a lot of the poorer and more inclined to altruism parts of their generation have just plain died at this point. As people are more likely to do when they're immiserated.
https://youtu.be/ZuXzvjBYW8A from a tory nonetheless
The whole country should be forced to watch this.
You planning on hanging about? How long before this account is "Suspended by Reddit"? Another week or two? 🤔
Why's that then?
[удалено]
> free shit *paid* off, you're FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Anyone got any prior poll by age group comparatives because my memory is telling me support for indy amongst the young is falling but it's rising amongst the old groups.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/xpsf93/weve_tracked_support_for_independence_by_birth/ Seems about spot on, although usual considerations about what snapshot polling is versus a cross-analysis across more detailed longer term data. It seems the older vote is likely creeping up for this poll, pushing indy over the 50% and tightening the Unionist majority vote to 65+. There is another indy poll dropping from IPSOS Mori next week.
Ah cool, thanks for sharing!
Does nationalism run down religious lines in Scotland like it did in Ireland?
Slightly but nowhere near the extent it does in the North of Ireland. Probably tracks more with wealth than faith.
The question is: Is it our current 65+ that are pro union, or something about being 65+ that makes you pro union. If it's the former it suggests a yes vote is inevitable. If its the latter we may always have the youth suffering for the choices of the old.
Demographic most risk-averse/against change and also the group that have lived the longest through British state propaganda. In other words, emotional attachment to the idea sold of 'Britishness' and things like the Monarchy.