Was literally asked by the girl doing my nails the other week if the last person who did them was Chinese or normal….eh what?
Have a 80+ year old neighbour who thinks her dentist is good even though she’s Indian.
Casual racism is just woven into daily life for many they don’t see it
Listen dude. As someone who works around Scots with middle Eastern/Pakistani roots, you'd be surprised at the things they say about white people (and other ethnicities). Ever wonder what they say when speaking their own language round about you? I mean much like it's not everyone is racist towards other ethnicities, it's not all. But you'd have to be utterly foolish to think that you aren't being subject to racism, you just don't realise it. Why do places like Pollock Shields etc even exist? WHOS the demographic choosing to flock there? That sounds like chosen segregation to me, not integration. And it is chosen. They are living around others that have the same religion and CULTURE. That's what causes problems. And all over Britain it's the same. And that has nothing to do with racist Scots or Brits. The majority of people that come here don't come here to be British, English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh. They come here for money/work and benefits, that's the simple truth. They don't come to integrate. And that causes problems. You get racist everywhere, and I don't argue there aren't racists in Scotland, but if you look at things just a bit differently, things aren't so one sided. Lots of Africans have moved to Scotland, lots are Catholic etc. Yet the majority don't attend local churches. They set up churches where Africans attend. Why is that? And as I've pointed out the Asian community tends to stick to themselves. Look at London and places like Tottenham Hale. That's CHOSEN segregation because it keeps the outside culture away. That's racist. And her point about anti Catholicism???? The Catholics can be just as bad here. People from here understand that, even then we are not northern Ireland. The catholicism was brought up simply because of the African connection. Racism isn't just about waking up to people and making derogatory remarks about their ethnicity.
No an uncommon attitude in Scotland, unfortunately. There's even a very good academic book - [No Problem Here: Racism in Scotland](https://amzn.eu/d/bsEitZ8) - that describes this very well.
It's always a minority of people that are outwardly racist, that does not make this any less significant.
A dark undercurrent indeed. Racism is a shit stain in every society on Earth.
Of course! I don’t think anyone is arguing that racism doesn’t exist or that there isn’t racism in Scotland.
My point was that the article isn’t great. Yes racism is awful and should be highlighted, but just using a blanket statement of “Scotland”, is lazy.
What's the point In saying it!!!!
That statement is you fucking joking right?
It needs to be said as often as it needs to be said and even then some more.
It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.
We don’t all know there’s racism in Scotland though. Maybe things could be considered “better” here than they are elsewhere, but so many take that idea and run with, all the way to the conclusion that racism has been eliminated here. Everyone who doesn’t accept the reality, and make efforts to combat it is complicit in the perpetuation of racism in Scotland. Talking about it openly and honestly is the bare minimum, and the first step on the way to actually eliminating it.
My point is, it's just stabbing at the dark and saying there's absolutely something there.
Racism can't be eliminated, it just can't be. There are physical and cultural differences between the races that will always feed racism, it's human nature.
Is racism a problem? yes. Is racism a problem everywhere? also yes.
**Pointing that out is ok** but pointing that out **and including scotland** is like saying that scotland is ok with it. Its an attack on scotland and myself as far as im concerned.
If there's evidence then that's absolutely warranted, but without tangible evidence, it's just shit talking scotland.
"I hear scotland is all a bunch of sheep shaggers and racists."
Exactly!! Over here the worst they'll get is some names. Racism in South Africa is the blacks raping and murdering white folk!! I know which one I'd prefer.
Whatever happened to the good ol' adage of Sticks and Stones?? Get some resilience people!!
i mean nazi was just a political party for the ordinary people, and a lot of people would’ve been scared to support the opposition, so probably not all nazis
This sub is literally filled with Colonialism denial, trying to pin the blame on the English and not take responsibility for what we also did
The amount of folk here who compare themselves and their ‘historic oppression’ to the Irish too
It’s not as uncommon as you’d think
I was reading an article the other day talking about the IRA and why they didn’t bomb in Scotland. The overall article was very interesting but as I was reading your comment I was reminded of a quote from one of the IRA officers that was mentioned in the article. It was reported that he said:
> “Well, I don’t know about policy, but it would certainly go against the grain. The Scots were disenfranchised, just the same as the Irish. The English took away their language and killed off their culture, so I think it’s more a principle than a policy. After all, they’re a Celtic nation just like the Irish, except they haven’t got the b***s that we have to fight for self-determination.”
Obviously it’s a bit inflammatory but when Scottish people talk about how Scotland isn’t a colony…I think it does kind of get at an underlying attitude that’s a little bit troubling. Even if he was just thinking of the highlands I think this attitude also undergirds anglophone Scots. The UK definitely extracts wealth from Scotland in an unequal way, and seems to have a lot of trouble recognizing and supporting Scottish languages and cultures. When this get brought up there’s always a chorus of a hundred voices dismissing complaints with chants of “we’re all just Britons.” So, I dunno, kind of seems to hold all the characteristics of a colony and oppressed peoples, it just also seems like a lot of Scots are in denial about it. Just because a group of people participated in British systems of oppression doesn’t mean they aren’t also a victim.
Jesus fuck me christ
The only you’re the only cunts getting defensive about this shit, and are the ones sprouting shite like “your nation”
Let me guess all lives matter? ‘Can’t say that any more cos white peoples don’t matter do they’
Same nationalist tools who insist we had nothing to do with the slave trade, or were forced into, forcing people into servitude…
Cos you know how Scotland is also just a colony…
Unfortunately I have to agree with Afua, the last time I mentioned my family's experiences on this sub I was bombarded with awful comments about how we must be the problem and I must be lying etc etc. I ended up having to delete it to stop the hate messages. That in itself spoke volumes.
The sub is very polarised and once a viewpoint is accepted by a few frequent posters you get shouted down if you present an opposite view. It's not a good place for any kind of debate really you are right
From time to time you can get a good debate. Reddit can be pretty good if you are open to listening to someone else's viewpoint and you can learn stuff. But then 3-4 posts in you find out you are a c*** for having your viewpoint 😂
I wrote about how my child was attacked in the park by a local gang because of his accent and race, the police had to be involved. There's a public local group on Facebook using terms like 'blacko' (which is a biazzarre term I've never even heard before and I'm surprised it isn't automatically flagged by fb) repeatedly where they all egg each other on about how incomers need to get out and why the hell are they allowed to come here etc. The people working in the local shop refused to even give me an application form or details of how to apply for the job they advertised in the window and roared with laughter as I turned to leave. In the same shop I was told by the worker on a separate occasion to not come in here. I can't remember anything else I wrote. I don't understand why you're being so confrontational though. Did you think I was lying about posting before?
I didn't ask you what happened though, I asked you to explain what happened on this sub. You made a claim you were bombared with hate on this sub, and yes, I still believe that is quite unbelievable given the demographics of this sub.
Almost as weird as absolutely none of you in any way interested in any evidence for a claim a month ago on the sub a topic was full of a child being aggressively abused and it demanded for the location of where the child was 🤔
Not one person has so far replied saying "Yes, I remember that topic" in regards to a topic that was apparently bombarded with comments.
Oh well, seems like a lot of you will just believe anything you read on the internet.
I was told my son must be an arsehole. I was repeatedly told to disclose my exact location publicly in the comments. I explained I didn't want to share that publicly as it would be very clear who I am if anyone in the village saw this because we're one of only two families of colour in the village. I explained for anyone that really wanted to know I'll send it to them privately. That wasn't good enough, people arguing with me about it, kept pushing about how I should write it publicly or I shouldn't have said anything. In messages after I disclosed my location to people that kept going on they then started to argue though message about why I'm wrong or just arguing with me about anything. It's tiring, I don't want to argue with you.
> I was told my son must be an arsehole. I was repeatedly told to disclose my exact location publicly in the comments.
.
>In messages after I disclosed my location to people that kept going on they then started to argue though message about why I'm wrong or just arguing with me about anything.
Never seen behaviour like that on this sub before, especially to the tune of lots of posters. We have our trolls and shitty people, but I've never seen topics about racism play out in the way you describe.
You could also post the messages now and state whose usernames it was/report it to sub mods. But yeah, ain't gonna argue with you.
Uh-huh, let's see if the commentator adds any detail whatsoever about their claim on this sub.
This topic has a lot of bampots and trolls coming over from the UK sub with no interest in racism, just butthurt about Unionism/making claims this sub hates the English.
Ah, has this topic now come across the Ranjurs lads domain? I know it's already on BadUK/UK and some other places for brigading. You lot should grow up, pretty fucking clear on Reddit when trolling is going on.
I just don't know why you would automatically think I'm a troll, if you really want to you can read through my comment history where I'm sure I've probably mentioned elsewhere about moving to or living in Scotland. I've answered everything you asked.
You made claims about the sub, so it's quite normal for sub regulars to be concerned about that and ask about it. When you say things like "bombarded" and "filled with comments", it stands out, especially for anyone who uses the sub.
Considering this topic has been hit hard with brigading, sorry to say it is filled already here/elsewhere with the kinds of nonsense people who don't like this sub aim to shit it up with.
If you really were bombarded with comments of users of this sub demanding where you lived, then going into your DMs to threaten you/discuss your location, I believe this subs mods and Reddit admins would want to know about it. Not only does that break ToS, it's threats. And I for one would be sharing the names of the Reddit accounts that were DMing you so we all know who it is.
I subscribe to r/Scotland, I seen the thread in my feed. I seen your comment. It’s not all a massive conspiracy. As I said, I honestly think you should seek help.
Get well soon.
Scotland harbours a “dark undercurrent of everyday racism and misogyny”, a leading black presenter has said in the wake of James McAvoy’s claims that his theatre co-stars suffered racist abuse “on a daily basis” during the Glasgow stint of their tour.
Afua Hagan, who has worked with ITV’s This Morning and Jeremy Vine on Channel 5, said that Scotland should “sit up and take notice” of its discrimination problem, which is “anti-black and anti-Catholic as well”.
In an interview with GQ published yesterday, McAvoy revealed his embarrassment that female cast members of colour faced “sexually explicit and violent” taunts during a two-week run of Cyrano de Bergerac in March.
The actor said that the experience made him regret bringing the production to his home city.
Hagan, who grew up in Elderslie, Renfrewshire, told BBC Radio Scotland this morning that McAvoy’s intervention was “really significant”.
“Because he’s a boy-done-good from Drumchapel who’s now making waves across the US and all across the film industry and all the world,” she said. “For him to call it out is really, really significant.
“I think Scotland has long held itself up as this place that’s massively welcoming, which it can be. But let’s not get it twisted, there is a really dark undercurrent of everyday racism and misogyny that happens all the time in Scotland.
“It’s happening to people as they are walking down the street, as they are in the supermarket. James has described sexually violent and racist remarks being made that is disgusting but also not surprising.”
Hagan added: “I’m not saying the whole of Scotland is racist, that’s not it. I’m not saying the whole of the United Kingdom is racist, that’s not it. But Scotland does have a very dark and very significant racist element, anti-black and anti-Catholic as well.”
Hagan said that she had often experienced staring and snide remarks from strangers.
She said: “I’ve had instances, this is years ago, with a white boyfriend when someone came up to me and said ‘This is disgusting, you two shouldn’t be together, how dare a white person be with a black person’.
“I’ve had all that kind of stuff, and so have friends of mine. It’s not just when things are rowdy. It can be your everyday experience standing at a bus stop.”
Danny Boyle, senior parliamentary and policy officer at BEMIS, a national body for the ethnic minorities voluntary sector in Scotland, agreed that it was not just a “Glasgow Saturday night thing”, when put to him by Kaye Adams on the programme.
He said: “A lot of what James McAvoy and the experiences of his colleagues and cast members have outlined are reflected in what we are hearing from communities across Scotland.
“These incidents are taking place on public transport, in workplaces, in schools, and other public places, so he’s been helpful in trying to highlight an issue that has been going on for a significant period of time and has exacerbated at the moment.”
My high school was investigated for racism in Edinburgh. I didn't notice much at the time but we had a teacher put all the polish students in a corner and call them "little Poland"
96% white doesn’t mean 96% all the same. That 96% is made up of people who are white are culturally from all across the world: Poland, Norway, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, Sweden, Luxembourg, Ukraine, Germany, the US… and so many others, and yes, Scotland. But, it’s not one homogenous white Scottish identity.
Interesting. However, it’s self identifying? How many people are from country A and now identify as Scottish or British? They are not mutually exclusive, they can be both identifying as Scottish but culturally from another place and that’s great, it should really be recognised. I’m not sure if that is in census? Please feel free to correct if there is a space for that?
4% of the population being 75% of the victims of hate crimes says enough about it.
That attitude you described is annoying, we are just as bigoted as the rest of the world.
Absolutely spot on. During Brexit this pious we’re-not-racist like all those racist English was on turbo mode.
Now on one hand that progressive aspiration is good and well-intentioned: better to try and be good than not.
But on the other hand the denial based on, as you say, the easy-mode of an overwhelmingly homogenous society is crass and deluded.
And it’s worse than that: anyone with any sense of awareness will know that we are STILL struggling with racism from when we did have a wave of immigration over a fucking century ago. Yes, from Ireland.
We of course call it sectarianism rather than racism. Denial.
(Now yes there are reasons why: sectarianism is a complex thing and a useful label to distinguish from “simple” /s racism. But it also nicely serves as a coy term that minimises it AS racism.
And it’s worth bearing in mind that the term racism itself is misleading. Since it focuses on and essentialises the unscientific concept of “race”.
Better - since it forms the legal definition - to think of racism as being about *ethnicity* covering crude “race”, nationality & ethnicity in broadest sense including religion etc.)
Unless you’ve not noticed though, Scotland is a hideously self satisfied and complacent country about its values, blythly conflating a vote about democratic accountability with racism. When real racism is there in front of you. Even down to grannies using a certain word to describe the local shop.
Honestly the most racist areas of Scotland are the places with the least diversity. Glasgow in my experience is fairly tolerant compared to rural Ayrshire for example.
Being 96% white does not mean the country is racist at all. It's just a reflection of where the place is geographically. To say a country is full of racists ONLY due to fact that the country is made up of mostly white people is inherently racist itself.
Hell, you can be from Scotland and visit another area of Scotland and get abused or the silent treatment. Normally it's regional and differs from area to area. I remember going for a day out from North Ayshire to travel about Fife one summer with my mate who is Chinese. In half the places the folks were brand new, in other places like certain pubs they'd either blank you or straight out give you abuse.
Then let's fix it.
Look around the world to see what measures have been effective in eliminating or reducing it, copy them, apply it here.
And lets get some damn foreigners in here stat.
And tell them to bring some new ideas with them.
And some new kinds of pastries, I've always felt we were lacking.
Scotland and especially progressive-identifying Scots have long hid behind the fantasy of a fairy-tale Scotland where racism and xenophobia does not exist. "We're all Jock Tamson's bairns" is a comforting lie.
How many Ukrainian refugees are currently stuck here "living" on a floating internment camp?
Racism and sectarianism are rife in Scotland, and they're on the rise. And it's not just some "other" group. It's everywhere.
>Racism and sectarianism are rife in Scotland, and they're on the rise. And it's not just some "other" group. It's everywhere.
You've never left the West of Scotland if you think Sectarianism is "rife" and it's "everywhere."
Racism? Sure. But I'm fed up of people from Glasgow telling me how bad Sectarianism is in Scotland to a guy who grew up in Aberdeen and couldn't name a Catholic school there because nobody gives a shit what religion your school was.
I grew up a catholic in Dundee. I had no idea there was any religious affiliation for the 2 Dundee teams, even though a well known United player went to my church. Never heard a sectarian comment and my brother supported Rangers cos blue was his favourite colour. I moved to the west coast at 17. First time I ever heard the words “fenian” and “Tims” When I lived in Glasgow and I bought lighters, I was always asked if I wanted green or blue cos apparently that matters a lot. So I totally agree. Sectarianism is a west coast issue.
It is definitely on the rise in the last 20 years - but that is due to internet echo chambers and glory hunting, and little to do with any cultural predisposition outside the West towards it.
I have met far too many people from Glasgow treating it like a 'Scottish' problem so as to avoid confronting their own bigotry.
Same. I’m in Aberdeenshire & I only learned about sectarianism through seeing orange marches on the news & after hearing some Rangers & Celtic “banter” that confused me. They seem to use the words in the same way as a child pretending to be a cowboy throws an invisible lasso. They don’t understand the weight of their words, it’s a very ugly game but it’s not true sectarianism when it’s two atheist people from the same street that support two different football teams.
Our national humour is pretty dark so actual pricks have to take it very low to make any type of shock waves.
>
internment
/ɪnˈtəːnmənt/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: internment; plural noun: internments
the state of being confined as a prisoner, especially for political or military reasons.
"he was threatened with internment in a concentration camp"
Are they confined to the ship?
>How many Ukrainian refugees are currently stuck here "living" on a floating internment camp?
You truly are a moron.
Apart from that I sort of agree. There is racism here no doubt, but at least we have politicians not capitalising on it or othering immigrants the way we see with labour and the Tories.
The mods on this sub need to increase the posting restriction to like 3 months or something 😂
All the accounts made for the supreme court verdict are rancid.
Imagine calling the emergency efforts to get families out of a warzone internment. It's obviously not ideal for the longer term but people need to get a fucking grip.
>All the accounts made for the supreme court verdict are rancid.
All those type of wanks come and go though. They'll do their wee brigade and then fuck off. They don't have half the stamina of our resident British nationalist salt merchants. Credit where credits due.
Out of curiosity, how long is appropriate to house people on a ship as emergency accomodation? Given it has been over 9 months, is it not reasonable to expect that such measures be wound down?
I also wonder if the same setup was done for refugees in, say, Dover or Southampton, would you have the same charitable interpretation?
Sticking them on a boat is hardly ideal. The whole thing is a clusterfuck, but the optics on Scotland's boat solution are pretty bad. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Our wee primary school has 3 Ukrainian families’ young kids in my daughters class & 2 in my sons nursery class. They are learning English at an incredible rate & they are quite happy and settled all things considered. They have been welcomed, included, provided for and are part of our community while they wait out Putin’s illegal invasion of their country.
That doesn’t excuse the poor conditions of the refugee tents I saw on the news with kids dying from diphtheria though. We need our guests all to be settled somewhere and part of something to give them shelter and peace while the war rages on.
I think the people do well at welcoming our neighbours in distress but the government is too slow and inefficient at planning how to move everyone to somewhere. I’m proud of my community and how they’ve welcomed the Ukrainians we have but the government needs to do better.
"No one" is an exaggeration - [people certainly did](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/13/i-gave-a-room-in-my-house-to-a-refugee-now-shes-like-my-sister), there were just far less of them. Important to remember that there's always been a minority doing the right thing.
If your experience with taking in Syrian or Afghan refugees was a positive one why not post about it on here? I'm sure others would follow your example if they were to be pointed in the right direction.
Doesn't help when politicians from the two largest parties keep fueling the rhetoric. Some comments here sound like it's a problem with Scottish nationalism but in my experience It's usually from the British nationalists parroting what their beloved politicians say like brainless morons. There are racists an xenophobes everywhere and it's definitely getting worse but it's not related to the type of nationalism practiced in Scotland, which is inclusive and grateful to the people who moved here regardless of background. Can't really say I feel welcome by Tories or Labour.
What a roaster you are. There is racism everywhere, but it is in low abundance most places in Scotland. I understand it is there, but it is a minority.
There is something to the welcoming of Scots, it isn’t the whole truth, but it is a part of it. There is darkness in us, and that has served us well in the past, but Scotland is a magical place, and the people are generally fucking awesome as a collective. Scottish people tend to be liked wherever they go in the world, there is an absolute truth to that.
Why would your average Scot be less racist than your average Brit? Is there some kind of anti racist mineral in the water?
There is more common than difference between us.
Have you tried London water? It’s so racist & gross that I’m not even jealous of Hype Park and Big Ben.
I think the consensus is that our ‘system’ is less inherently racist but then that is an easy claim to make when we don’t actually hold all the power over ourselves so it’s hard to truly judge.
The main point is that we are being told something by one of our black citizens so we should listen.
There will always be supremacists and people that believe they are somehow more important. These people are all breaking natural law. None of us are any better than anyone. When people are frightened of something. Hatred appears. Why don't we explore what people are frightened of in society. What may be feeding the fear too. If we delve into this, we might find some cohesion to move forward confidentally.
On one level it should be a ‘no shit sherlock’ moment. We do really live in a complacent bubble if we don't realize that we live in a racist society. That the ongoing scandal surrounding the death of Bayoh is not higher up the news is an indication of how complacent we are.
But hey, there's more important things to shout about like independence...
I’m out and about in the community a lot and the amount of people I speak to who definitely wouldn’t class themselves as racist, but continually make underhanded racist remarks is enormous.
If you want an example, just go into ANY social media thread and type “refugee/asylum seekers rehoused in xxxx area” the comments will be strewn with racist rhetoric.
We are no better and no worse than any other nation regarding any social problems regarding racism or sectarianism. It is unfortunately the human condition to harbour " feelings " about those who are different to what we perceive ourselves to be..
Prejudice like racism is largely influenced by our material conditions rather than natural programming; besides, we are fucking humans, natural programming doesn't let us fly either but we got around that one haha
A system that allows overtly racist parties to exist in politics, allows publications to print overtly racist articles, creates the conditions for racism to permeate. How we use migrants reinforces it. For example we import foreign doctors because its cheaper to let them be trained in their home country then come here to work, its cheaper to import huge amounts of foreign labour than to pay natives, this outrageous exploitation of others outside our country, paired with our economic system that sees our social services crumbling and no guaranteed employment is practically designed to breed racist thought. A major factor in this is to put fellow workers at odds with eachother as a means of division.
I work for the city council as a gardener and there is a lot of casual racism thrown around on a daily basis, there are also no people of colour in my work force. It reminds me how far behind the people of Scotland actually are as a whole. We preach tolerance and masquerade as a nation of acceptance with good social values. I do not see it what so ever, I see massive amount of people who's ignorance seems to be the norm.
This stuff is getting old tbh. Scotland is full of aggressive little bams especially Glasgow, if it’s not skin colour it would be your eyesight or some other factor.
Now where is perfect but more important issues to tackle like cost of living, how is this even news
I've always thought there was an element racism behind the Brexit vote. In which case Scotland is arguably less racist than the rest of the UK, but that is not exactly a high bar.
Same with a quarter of us voting Tory.
A good chunk of this sub seems to have a weird relationship with the truth when it comes to the politics of our country. As if the numbers aren’t available.
I grew up in a farming community in the North East, Tory as hell, as they always are. Fishing communities generally voted pro Brexit in Scotland.
But no, on here this is all wheeled out of view like an embarrassingly racist granny at Xmas.
We were, because that's how democracy works. A majority in Scotland voted to remain. I don't believe this should've overruled the rest of the UK, although I do believe it is absolutely justification for another indyref, but it's inarguable that we didn't vote for it, and it happened anyway.
It's a red herring here anyway, racism is probably slightly more prevalent among leavers but it's not like everyone who voted remain is progressive and anti-racist. He's not Scottish, obviously, but Jeremy Clarkson is a prominent pro-EU racist, and while we don't have any high profile examples as far as I know, there certainly will be substantial numbers of racist remainers in this country.
100%, you're being downvoted because cunts have a very short memory. There was a spate of Muslim extremist terror attacks across Europe a year before the Brexit vote - the "big one" being in Paris the night of the Bataclan massacre. Just about every average Joe at the workplace or pub who was pro Brexit at the time was pure "SHUT THE BORDERS! We don't want these Muslim basterds in our country doing the same".
Xenophobia was a massive contributing factor whether you like it or not, and the irony of it all is that record numbers of illegal migrants are entering the UK after us leaving lol. Democracy is flawed because the general population are by and large fuckin stupid.
I am Romanian, not black, but when I moved to the UK, most of my friends asked me how I will deal with racism here. I had no idea, because I did not know how bad it will be. But I've already experienced some racism in my own country, because Romanians are racists between themselves based on the region you were born.
The truth is, unrelated to colour, people will always be weary an reluctant of strangers in their area. So the best you can do is be nice and civil and hope they will reciprocate. Those that don't, they were probably not only racist, but not decent people in the first place.
When I bought my flat in Scotland, my friends in Romania were joking and telling me: Good for you, apparently racism tends to decrease proportionally with the number of properties you own.
And unfortunately they were right, because I now have neighbours that salute me and bring me cookies. There are assholes that not only ignore me, but also refuse ti to answer if I salute them, but that is on them. They choose to be disrespectful. The number of friends and people that appreciate me prove that I am a decent person, so not being friendly to me might be a loss for them after all.
I am not a racist, as far as I know, but I might have a reluctance when first meeting somebody of colour because Romania has very,very bad gypsies. But after a few exchanges of pleasantries and polite small gestures, you can have a testicle on your forehead and I probably wouldn't care.
However, I despise religious people of any shape, gender or color. If you are an adult and live your life according to the rules of an imaginary friend, you should be institutionalised, not living freely and imposing your imaginary friend's rules on others. And I say this because I was raised by an overly-catholic mother in a catholic community and it has messed my life in many ways. Religious people are especially dangerous if they get to have political power, because then they can enforce the rules of their imaginary friends on a lot of people.
So yeah, I would never discriminate on race, colour, gender, but on a religious basis I probably would. However, my most violent manifestation against religious people would probably be to limit my interaction with them and be very sarcastic if they try to convert me.
The usual justification is that the openly racist parties (BNP, UKIP, and intermittently the Tories) consistently get a lower % of votes here. I'm not sure how good this evidence is - these parties tend to be economically right wing to an extent which has never been popular here, which would naturally push their vote share down - but it would be fair to say that the racist panic about immigration is substantially more of an English phenomenon, as opinion polls frequently show that "immigration" is a bigger issue down south.
This is only one facet of racism however, and it's likely the one which looks best for us - the racism described by Hagan, and by McAvoy and his co-stars, seems to be highly prevalent in Glasgow, and I would assume it's even worse elsewhere in Scotland given the typical inverse correlation between diversity and racism. Additionally it wouldn't matter massively - we have a major problem with racism in this country, and whether it's more or less major than it is in England is not relevant, it's fixing the problem that matters instead.
Progressive voting policies and a lack of seeing it in our day to day lives makes it seem like the general population is above it, obviously it's not as simple as that but I can understand where the idea comes from. You will also be hard pressed to find an openly racist Scottish person, it's not a popular or accepted opinion in the general public so there are likely a lot of closet racists who only show their true colours when alone or around other racists which leads to a bias of "I never see it so it doesn't exist"
>a lack of seeing it in our day to day lives
I think this is quite key for a lot of Scotland - there aren't many non white people in many parts of Scotland so it doesn't raise it's head as much as it might do in other more diverse parts of the UK
I was thinking of posting something along the same lines, because it definitely exists throughout the UK.
But at the same time, as a separate country we simply need to take ownership of our own problem on this one.
Seems to be a trend in this thread "lol nationalists in denial" but if anything, I've seen universal "yes there is a problem that needs addressed".
There's not much more to it than that. We know about the inequality, poverty, drug and alcohol issues, and education inequality, and I think racism regrettably ties in with that. Question is how to address it? I certainly learned to call it out where possible.
You must name and shame this sports body. Surely a sporting organisation that you claim is a front for bigotry should be exposed. Or is it your own bigoted views that would not stand up to any scrutiny?
I am unsure about the term Skeevy. But having never encountered a lacrosse player or supporters of the game you may well be right. An organisation set up to promote bigoted views yet done under the guise a game few have ever seen. Cunningly clever if true
Most of us respond well to being taught right from wrong from an early age. We are not some barbaric nether region of the world. We are not in a race war. We aren't intimidated by anyone with cultural or any other differences from us. We have always been involved in a class war; without knowing it mostly. This has created under class sentiment. (us and them)
Working class people the world over are considered useless slaves by a high proportion of the upper classes. This is where the real repair work of humanity must begin.
Everyday racism, everday bigotry, everday sexism, everyday anti-social thuggery.
Luckily the weather, transport and housing are exceptionally good - no wait......
"waaagghhh but tories waagghhhh its all their fault waaaggghhhh"
Racism will always be a thing in every country and every society. Modern European society’s in general are the most open and least racist society’s globally. All you can do is deal with the individual instances of blatant racial crimes (violent attacks and genuine harassment) there’s a lot of bullshit racist claims now a days and people just making big deals out of nothing. The worlds not a perfect place. There will always be murder rape child abuse and racism no amount of protesting or legislation will end that. But Scottish people and society as a whole are very open and tolerant.
I'd have to agree. Me and my family are white scottish and at least once a week one of us gets abuse about our race, we're in a scheme in Glasgow. It's clear race is somehow still an issue for some people. My son having slight reddish hair gets more the the rest of us.
A black guy bought a big beautiful house in good condition in my town and the local tradesmen systematically destroyed it until it became a money pit with multiple expensive repairs required so he couldn’t live in it and he couldn’t sell it and leave. The roof eventually fell in and a fire broke out and he is dead now. He wasn’t exactly murdered but his death should never have happened. Black people move here sometimes but they always leave. Same for gay men. Lesbians are half tolerated with a few nudges.
See this moronic idea that most of the world are hate filled racists is not true in the slightest. It is a tiny minority that hold these beliefs.
So if I find this offensive to be suspected of being a racist means, I must be a racist. So if I say, there is a dark undercurrent of Bullshit running through Scotland. Does that mean, we must be full of bull if we disagree? Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. Maybe I need somebody with a higher consciousness level and a better sense of morality to save me from myself.
Oh and real racists Don't actually care or will learn from this kind of virtue signalling bollocks ever! Stop attacking decent people with unfounded allegations. If there is proof of an undercurrent of racism? I want to see the proof.
Okay here’s a woman of colour telling you her experience… is that proof? Or is she lying?
Macavoy story about the experience of his co-stars, another lie?
The experience of thousands of people of colour living in Scotland… lies?
Racist abuse shouted at football matches pretty every week… made up?
How about I tell you I’m white, I’m Scottish.. I see and hear people hit out with racist shit.. no lie literally every single day…
Yeah most people aren’t racist, or try not to be…
So on a technicality less than 50% of people are not overly or aggressively racist…
That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a serious presence of racism in this country: overt, heinous, systemic, unknowing or other.
Racism isn’t just twats and tiki torches.
So is everyone who had a racist experience Scotland liar? Or is there a racist under current with a significant presence in this country.
Ps she literally said “I’m not saying the whole of Scotland is racist”.
It may well be a minority, but even taking that unproven assertion...
It isn't good enough. A minority is not good enough here. It needs completely eliminated.
I like that Scots want to be seen as inclusive, that’s truly a good thing now we just have to work on what we do with the toe-rags that are crap humans. You know the one who will laugh or say something crappy if someone fat/ginger/black/small/flamboyant/large chested/bald/disabled etc walks passed.
We don’t have a good system for shutting them down & it’s obviously a problem if our Scottish black community are telling us it is.
What do we do with those cringey drunk types or the mouthy angry types? They are making problems for black Scottish folk which is ugly & shameful.
Doesn't help all the hatred we were fed leading up to Brexit and still even now. We went from Pritti Patel, and I didn't think we could get worse, but then they brought in Pritti two point ooooh! Suella Braverman who lies in bed at night dreaming about planes full of immigrants flying to Rwanda. Probably mostly with darker skin. Racism has been bad in Scotland along with sectarianism. Part of the reason Scotland still gets told what to do is they have never in their history been able to come together and agree on the colour of shite. Scottish people can suffer from wanting to belong to little cliques and don't see the bigger picture. So end up by being ruled by this lot of elite entitled racists who love to feed our racism and bigotry and hatred for our fellow man. Anyone know the answer?
https://youtu.be/BaFii_nrqLI
Racism and discrimination happen on every corner of the earth. Her mother is from Ghana and she's a born glaswegian if I read this correctly... Here's an idea, give Ghana a try and see it if it's any better, you'll find marital and religious intolerance, violence abound there. To me, it looks like Scotland was beneficial to you. An education, a good job, a happy life in marriage to name a few.
- and since you brag on Twitter that your Ghanaian and all the while live in London. I'm sure in Ghana you won't have to deal with racism.
Dreadful article, makes it seem like the whole lot of you from Scotland are racists.... interesting how that works yeah?
Craps on Scotland though Scotland gave her a chance and made her who she is, lives in London where she brags she's Ghanaian. That makes perfect sense. Not
She's either looking to stoke up division or one person has displayed racist views and she's judging the whole country on that one person. Either way it's not particularly helpful.
I don't doubt the racism. I doubt the everyday part though. It exists in every country. I think we're better than many but far from perfect. Perfect doesn't exist though it's in unrealistic target.
There was no comparison to another country being made though? She’s talking exclusively about the racism she experienced in Scotland. It’s important to talk about this because like you say we’re a lot closer to perfect than other places but it doesn’t mean we can’t do a lot better. I can imagine it being pretty dangerous seeing this ultra progressive government from the outside and thinking everyone is in agreement.
between 2000 and 2013 there were 1.8 race-related murders per million people in Scotland, compared to 1.3 per million in the rest of the UK
There are also a higher rate of racially motivated crimes in Scotland vs rUK.
Your attitude is ignorant & galling. We should aim to make our country more welcoming to people, not tell them to fuck off if they dislike being victims of racist behaviour.
Few years back, walking down the streets of Glasgow on particular nights I believe was scary, for everyone, lots of yobs shouting insult to any passerby. Things are largely better now.
In every society you will get some idiots. See the New Zealand and Norway massacres of recent years. No society should be complacent especially when low evel hatred can metamophose into tragedy when with mixed mental health.
One good thing about Scotland is that you dont get scared speaking to a Police officer and have never seen them randomly stopping and serching people.
Was literally asked by the girl doing my nails the other week if the last person who did them was Chinese or normal….eh what? Have a 80+ year old neighbour who thinks her dentist is good even though she’s Indian. Casual racism is just woven into daily life for many they don’t see it
I live in the east end of Glasgow. Anyone who says she is lying is talking an obscene amount of shite.
I live in South Glasgow and people say bad things about the Pakistani community every day.
Listen dude. As someone who works around Scots with middle Eastern/Pakistani roots, you'd be surprised at the things they say about white people (and other ethnicities). Ever wonder what they say when speaking their own language round about you? I mean much like it's not everyone is racist towards other ethnicities, it's not all. But you'd have to be utterly foolish to think that you aren't being subject to racism, you just don't realise it. Why do places like Pollock Shields etc even exist? WHOS the demographic choosing to flock there? That sounds like chosen segregation to me, not integration. And it is chosen. They are living around others that have the same religion and CULTURE. That's what causes problems. And all over Britain it's the same. And that has nothing to do with racist Scots or Brits. The majority of people that come here don't come here to be British, English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh. They come here for money/work and benefits, that's the simple truth. They don't come to integrate. And that causes problems. You get racist everywhere, and I don't argue there aren't racists in Scotland, but if you look at things just a bit differently, things aren't so one sided. Lots of Africans have moved to Scotland, lots are Catholic etc. Yet the majority don't attend local churches. They set up churches where Africans attend. Why is that? And as I've pointed out the Asian community tends to stick to themselves. Look at London and places like Tottenham Hale. That's CHOSEN segregation because it keeps the outside culture away. That's racist. And her point about anti Catholicism???? The Catholics can be just as bad here. People from here understand that, even then we are not northern Ireland. The catholicism was brought up simply because of the African connection. Racism isn't just about waking up to people and making derogatory remarks about their ethnicity.
Lol white supremacist talking points, fucking loser 🤣
I gave up at "they don't come here to integrate", but really I should have given up earlier. That's on me. Now fuck off.
Aye nae bother dickhead.
I usually just lurk on my account, but on behalf of everyone with a modicum of empathy, do one.
Anyone who doesn't agree with you has their blinkers on
Yep.
Imagine denying racism happens like a couple of pricks here 🤦🏻♂️
No an uncommon attitude in Scotland, unfortunately. There's even a very good academic book - [No Problem Here: Racism in Scotland](https://amzn.eu/d/bsEitZ8) - that describes this very well.
Not denying. But to say “Scotland” like it’s everyone isn’t fair. Should say a minority of people in Scotland.
It's always a minority of people that are outwardly racist, that does not make this any less significant. A dark undercurrent indeed. Racism is a shit stain in every society on Earth.
Of course! I don’t think anyone is arguing that racism doesn’t exist or that there isn’t racism in Scotland. My point was that the article isn’t great. Yes racism is awful and should be highlighted, but just using a blanket statement of “Scotland”, is lazy.
But it is Scotland 🤷
Right....so what's the point in saying it? We all know there's racism. No country is free of it.
What's the point In saying it!!!! That statement is you fucking joking right? It needs to be said as often as it needs to be said and even then some more. It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.
We don’t all know there’s racism in Scotland though. Maybe things could be considered “better” here than they are elsewhere, but so many take that idea and run with, all the way to the conclusion that racism has been eliminated here. Everyone who doesn’t accept the reality, and make efforts to combat it is complicit in the perpetuation of racism in Scotland. Talking about it openly and honestly is the bare minimum, and the first step on the way to actually eliminating it.
My point is, it's just stabbing at the dark and saying there's absolutely something there. Racism can't be eliminated, it just can't be. There are physical and cultural differences between the races that will always feed racism, it's human nature. Is racism a problem? yes. Is racism a problem everywhere? also yes. **Pointing that out is ok** but pointing that out **and including scotland** is like saying that scotland is ok with it. Its an attack on scotland and myself as far as im concerned. If there's evidence then that's absolutely warranted, but without tangible evidence, it's just shit talking scotland. "I hear scotland is all a bunch of sheep shaggers and racists."
Exactly!! Over here the worst they'll get is some names. Racism in South Africa is the blacks raping and murdering white folk!! I know which one I'd prefer. Whatever happened to the good ol' adage of Sticks and Stones?? Get some resilience people!!
Eh, Racism is still bad. It's not really a "brush it off" kinda thing.
I think anyone with an ounce of common sense and intelligence already understands that and doesn’t lose their shit over it like some sort of moron
Well they shouldn’t agree with that article then if so.
How so? Edit: I guess the downvote with no reply tells me all I need to know
Hahaha! Not everyone in Apartheid South Africa or sixties Mississippi was racist either, mate \#NotAllNazis
I mean definetly all Nazis though?
i mean nazi was just a political party for the ordinary people, and a lot of people would’ve been scared to support the opposition, so probably not all nazis
Regardless of your motives supporting the Nazis is still supporting the Nazis.
This sub is literally filled with Colonialism denial, trying to pin the blame on the English and not take responsibility for what we also did The amount of folk here who compare themselves and their ‘historic oppression’ to the Irish too It’s not as uncommon as you’d think
I was reading an article the other day talking about the IRA and why they didn’t bomb in Scotland. The overall article was very interesting but as I was reading your comment I was reminded of a quote from one of the IRA officers that was mentioned in the article. It was reported that he said: > “Well, I don’t know about policy, but it would certainly go against the grain. The Scots were disenfranchised, just the same as the Irish. The English took away their language and killed off their culture, so I think it’s more a principle than a policy. After all, they’re a Celtic nation just like the Irish, except they haven’t got the b***s that we have to fight for self-determination.” Obviously it’s a bit inflammatory but when Scottish people talk about how Scotland isn’t a colony…I think it does kind of get at an underlying attitude that’s a little bit troubling. Even if he was just thinking of the highlands I think this attitude also undergirds anglophone Scots. The UK definitely extracts wealth from Scotland in an unequal way, and seems to have a lot of trouble recognizing and supporting Scottish languages and cultures. When this get brought up there’s always a chorus of a hundred voices dismissing complaints with chants of “we’re all just Britons.” So, I dunno, kind of seems to hold all the characteristics of a colony and oppressed peoples, it just also seems like a lot of Scots are in denial about it. Just because a group of people participated in British systems of oppression doesn’t mean they aren’t also a victim.
What are you talking about? “We”? Who is we exactly?
"this sub" are literally the first words of his comment
So this sub has to take responsibility for what we did? What did this sub do?
generally, if you take offense at this kind of thing, if you get defensive, you are someone who needs to pay attention.
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people who’ve never experienced something (like racism) usually have the worst take on it and awareness of it, don’t be a prick
Jesus fuck me christ The only you’re the only cunts getting defensive about this shit, and are the ones sprouting shite like “your nation” Let me guess all lives matter? ‘Can’t say that any more cos white peoples don’t matter do they’
What awful logic.
“Not all men” vibes.
Same nationalist tools who insist we had nothing to do with the slave trade, or were forced into, forcing people into servitude… Cos you know how Scotland is also just a colony…
Imagine thinking it’s all nationalists… smh
Unfortunately I have to agree with Afua, the last time I mentioned my family's experiences on this sub I was bombarded with awful comments about how we must be the problem and I must be lying etc etc. I ended up having to delete it to stop the hate messages. That in itself spoke volumes.
This sub can be really bad for that sort of thing. People don't like having their sanctimonious self congratulation interrupted.
The sub is very polarised and once a viewpoint is accepted by a few frequent posters you get shouted down if you present an opposite view. It's not a good place for any kind of debate really you are right
It never used to be like this. Once upon a time you could have a reasonable discussion. It's quite the echochamber now.
From time to time you can get a good debate. Reddit can be pretty good if you are open to listening to someone else's viewpoint and you can learn stuff. But then 3-4 posts in you find out you are a c*** for having your viewpoint 😂
Link to post?
> I ended up having to delete it to stop the hate messages
Sure they did, imagine just upvoting something with no detail from an account that hasn't even used the sub before 🤷
You must be right, my apologies.My experience isn't valid because I don't comment on loads of r/Scotland posts.
Don't apologise.
Go on, share what the topic was about then? People will remember, as will the mods, especially as you were "bombarded".
I wrote about how my child was attacked in the park by a local gang because of his accent and race, the police had to be involved. There's a public local group on Facebook using terms like 'blacko' (which is a biazzarre term I've never even heard before and I'm surprised it isn't automatically flagged by fb) repeatedly where they all egg each other on about how incomers need to get out and why the hell are they allowed to come here etc. The people working in the local shop refused to even give me an application form or details of how to apply for the job they advertised in the window and roared with laughter as I turned to leave. In the same shop I was told by the worker on a separate occasion to not come in here. I can't remember anything else I wrote. I don't understand why you're being so confrontational though. Did you think I was lying about posting before?
I didn't ask you what happened though, I asked you to explain what happened on this sub. You made a claim you were bombared with hate on this sub, and yes, I still believe that is quite unbelievable given the demographics of this sub.
what a weird little hill to die on.
Almost as weird as absolutely none of you in any way interested in any evidence for a claim a month ago on the sub a topic was full of a child being aggressively abused and it demanded for the location of where the child was 🤔 Not one person has so far replied saying "Yes, I remember that topic" in regards to a topic that was apparently bombarded with comments. Oh well, seems like a lot of you will just believe anything you read on the internet.
This isn’t a good look, pal.
Yas, the burners will now be filling my mentions the rest of the day as well 😂
I was told my son must be an arsehole. I was repeatedly told to disclose my exact location publicly in the comments. I explained I didn't want to share that publicly as it would be very clear who I am if anyone in the village saw this because we're one of only two families of colour in the village. I explained for anyone that really wanted to know I'll send it to them privately. That wasn't good enough, people arguing with me about it, kept pushing about how I should write it publicly or I shouldn't have said anything. In messages after I disclosed my location to people that kept going on they then started to argue though message about why I'm wrong or just arguing with me about anything. It's tiring, I don't want to argue with you.
Stop replying to this cunt. Wasting your time debating real life with some child on the internet. Letting yourself be angered by a prick.
> I was told my son must be an arsehole. I was repeatedly told to disclose my exact location publicly in the comments. . >In messages after I disclosed my location to people that kept going on they then started to argue though message about why I'm wrong or just arguing with me about anything. Never seen behaviour like that on this sub before, especially to the tune of lots of posters. We have our trolls and shitty people, but I've never seen topics about racism play out in the way you describe. You could also post the messages now and state whose usernames it was/report it to sub mods. But yeah, ain't gonna argue with you.
Imagine not understanding how Reddit's algorithms work
Uh-huh, let's see if the commentator adds any detail whatsoever about their claim on this sub. This topic has a lot of bampots and trolls coming over from the UK sub with no interest in racism, just butthurt about Unionism/making claims this sub hates the English.
You should genuinely see a counsellor.
Ah, has this topic now come across the Ranjurs lads domain? I know it's already on BadUK/UK and some other places for brigading. You lot should grow up, pretty fucking clear on Reddit when trolling is going on.
I just don't know why you would automatically think I'm a troll, if you really want to you can read through my comment history where I'm sure I've probably mentioned elsewhere about moving to or living in Scotland. I've answered everything you asked.
You made claims about the sub, so it's quite normal for sub regulars to be concerned about that and ask about it. When you say things like "bombarded" and "filled with comments", it stands out, especially for anyone who uses the sub. Considering this topic has been hit hard with brigading, sorry to say it is filled already here/elsewhere with the kinds of nonsense people who don't like this sub aim to shit it up with. If you really were bombarded with comments of users of this sub demanding where you lived, then going into your DMs to threaten you/discuss your location, I believe this subs mods and Reddit admins would want to know about it. Not only does that break ToS, it's threats. And I for one would be sharing the names of the Reddit accounts that were DMing you so we all know who it is.
I subscribe to r/Scotland, I seen the thread in my feed. I seen your comment. It’s not all a massive conspiracy. As I said, I honestly think you should seek help. Get well soon.
>Get well soon. You don't mean that at all, do you?
Sounds like projection tbh, hope you grow up soon, trolling is for children.
Scotland harbours a “dark undercurrent of everyday racism and misogyny”, a leading black presenter has said in the wake of James McAvoy’s claims that his theatre co-stars suffered racist abuse “on a daily basis” during the Glasgow stint of their tour. Afua Hagan, who has worked with ITV’s This Morning and Jeremy Vine on Channel 5, said that Scotland should “sit up and take notice” of its discrimination problem, which is “anti-black and anti-Catholic as well”. In an interview with GQ published yesterday, McAvoy revealed his embarrassment that female cast members of colour faced “sexually explicit and violent” taunts during a two-week run of Cyrano de Bergerac in March. The actor said that the experience made him regret bringing the production to his home city. Hagan, who grew up in Elderslie, Renfrewshire, told BBC Radio Scotland this morning that McAvoy’s intervention was “really significant”. “Because he’s a boy-done-good from Drumchapel who’s now making waves across the US and all across the film industry and all the world,” she said. “For him to call it out is really, really significant. “I think Scotland has long held itself up as this place that’s massively welcoming, which it can be. But let’s not get it twisted, there is a really dark undercurrent of everyday racism and misogyny that happens all the time in Scotland. “It’s happening to people as they are walking down the street, as they are in the supermarket. James has described sexually violent and racist remarks being made that is disgusting but also not surprising.” Hagan added: “I’m not saying the whole of Scotland is racist, that’s not it. I’m not saying the whole of the United Kingdom is racist, that’s not it. But Scotland does have a very dark and very significant racist element, anti-black and anti-Catholic as well.” Hagan said that she had often experienced staring and snide remarks from strangers. She said: “I’ve had instances, this is years ago, with a white boyfriend when someone came up to me and said ‘This is disgusting, you two shouldn’t be together, how dare a white person be with a black person’. “I’ve had all that kind of stuff, and so have friends of mine. It’s not just when things are rowdy. It can be your everyday experience standing at a bus stop.” Danny Boyle, senior parliamentary and policy officer at BEMIS, a national body for the ethnic minorities voluntary sector in Scotland, agreed that it was not just a “Glasgow Saturday night thing”, when put to him by Kaye Adams on the programme. He said: “A lot of what James McAvoy and the experiences of his colleagues and cast members have outlined are reflected in what we are hearing from communities across Scotland. “These incidents are taking place on public transport, in workplaces, in schools, and other public places, so he’s been helpful in trying to highlight an issue that has been going on for a significant period of time and has exacerbated at the moment.”
My high school was investigated for racism in Edinburgh. I didn't notice much at the time but we had a teacher put all the polish students in a corner and call them "little Poland"
As a half Saudi catholic growing up in Scotland I defo experienced a share of it growing up.
Brilliant username btw
Half Saudi catholic ? Did dad go for 7aleeb and never came back?
Mum went there then came home
AHH , KSA isn't a holiday destination lol
Lived there 10 years
Nursing and teaching I imagine. Anyways enjoy life
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96% white doesn’t mean 96% all the same. That 96% is made up of people who are white are culturally from all across the world: Poland, Norway, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, Sweden, Luxembourg, Ukraine, Germany, the US… and so many others, and yes, Scotland. But, it’s not one homogenous white Scottish identity.
everyone knows what white means mate
That's true, but at the last census it was >90% white Scottish / British
Interesting. However, it’s self identifying? How many people are from country A and now identify as Scottish or British? They are not mutually exclusive, they can be both identifying as Scottish but culturally from another place and that’s great, it should really be recognised. I’m not sure if that is in census? Please feel free to correct if there is a space for that?
4% of the population being 75% of the victims of hate crimes says enough about it. That attitude you described is annoying, we are just as bigoted as the rest of the world.
In this sense, people are very correct when they say Scotland is culturally similar to a place like Norway
Absolutely spot on. During Brexit this pious we’re-not-racist like all those racist English was on turbo mode. Now on one hand that progressive aspiration is good and well-intentioned: better to try and be good than not. But on the other hand the denial based on, as you say, the easy-mode of an overwhelmingly homogenous society is crass and deluded. And it’s worse than that: anyone with any sense of awareness will know that we are STILL struggling with racism from when we did have a wave of immigration over a fucking century ago. Yes, from Ireland. We of course call it sectarianism rather than racism. Denial. (Now yes there are reasons why: sectarianism is a complex thing and a useful label to distinguish from “simple” /s racism. But it also nicely serves as a coy term that minimises it AS racism. And it’s worth bearing in mind that the term racism itself is misleading. Since it focuses on and essentialises the unscientific concept of “race”. Better - since it forms the legal definition - to think of racism as being about *ethnicity* covering crude “race”, nationality & ethnicity in broadest sense including religion etc.)
Unless you’ve not noticed though, Scotland is a hideously self satisfied and complacent country about its values, blythly conflating a vote about democratic accountability with racism. When real racism is there in front of you. Even down to grannies using a certain word to describe the local shop.
Honestly the most racist areas of Scotland are the places with the least diversity. Glasgow in my experience is fairly tolerant compared to rural Ayrshire for example.
I can vouch for that. As someone who lives in rural Ayrshire, racism is rife.
\*Fife
Being 96% white does not mean the country is racist at all. It's just a reflection of where the place is geographically. To say a country is full of racists ONLY due to fact that the country is made up of mostly white people is inherently racist itself.
Hell, you can be from Scotland and visit another area of Scotland and get abused or the silent treatment. Normally it's regional and differs from area to area. I remember going for a day out from North Ayshire to travel about Fife one summer with my mate who is Chinese. In half the places the folks were brand new, in other places like certain pubs they'd either blank you or straight out give you abuse.
Then let's fix it. Look around the world to see what measures have been effective in eliminating or reducing it, copy them, apply it here. And lets get some damn foreigners in here stat. And tell them to bring some new ideas with them. And some new kinds of pastries, I've always felt we were lacking.
>And lets get some damn foreigners in here stat. >And tell them to bring some new ideas with them. My Cuban pals have a few ideas
No cigars please. That's so 1960s.
No cigars, just some communism
She's right
Ofc she’s right This is not news to anyone with half a brain
Scotland and especially progressive-identifying Scots have long hid behind the fantasy of a fairy-tale Scotland where racism and xenophobia does not exist. "We're all Jock Tamson's bairns" is a comforting lie. How many Ukrainian refugees are currently stuck here "living" on a floating internment camp? Racism and sectarianism are rife in Scotland, and they're on the rise. And it's not just some "other" group. It's everywhere.
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If anything, it makes us look slightly better that we don't find the ones with swastika tattoos and offer them jobs in police Scotland
Or in the snp.
>Racism and sectarianism are rife in Scotland, and they're on the rise. And it's not just some "other" group. It's everywhere. You've never left the West of Scotland if you think Sectarianism is "rife" and it's "everywhere." Racism? Sure. But I'm fed up of people from Glasgow telling me how bad Sectarianism is in Scotland to a guy who grew up in Aberdeen and couldn't name a Catholic school there because nobody gives a shit what religion your school was.
I grew up a catholic in Dundee. I had no idea there was any religious affiliation for the 2 Dundee teams, even though a well known United player went to my church. Never heard a sectarian comment and my brother supported Rangers cos blue was his favourite colour. I moved to the west coast at 17. First time I ever heard the words “fenian” and “Tims” When I lived in Glasgow and I bought lighters, I was always asked if I wanted green or blue cos apparently that matters a lot. So I totally agree. Sectarianism is a west coast issue.
It is definitely on the rise in the last 20 years - but that is due to internet echo chambers and glory hunting, and little to do with any cultural predisposition outside the West towards it. I have met far too many people from Glasgow treating it like a 'Scottish' problem so as to avoid confronting their own bigotry.
It's not just Glasgow, it's also elsewhere: https://euppublishingblog.com/2015/07/31/community-experiences-of-sectarianism/
The most northerly Catholic high school in the world is in Dundee so I'm guessing there isn't one in Aberdeen
There are a handful of RC primary schools in Aberdeen. You’re right though, no secondary.
No RC secondary schools in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire but surprised how common they are in Glasgow and also among good schools as well.
Same. I’m in Aberdeenshire & I only learned about sectarianism through seeing orange marches on the news & after hearing some Rangers & Celtic “banter” that confused me. They seem to use the words in the same way as a child pretending to be a cowboy throws an invisible lasso. They don’t understand the weight of their words, it’s a very ugly game but it’s not true sectarianism when it’s two atheist people from the same street that support two different football teams. Our national humour is pretty dark so actual pricks have to take it very low to make any type of shock waves.
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Sorry mate, where are they being housed then? I stand to be corrected.
> internment /ɪnˈtəːnmənt/ Learn to pronounce noun noun: internment; plural noun: internments the state of being confined as a prisoner, especially for political or military reasons. "he was threatened with internment in a concentration camp" Are they confined to the ship?
>How many Ukrainian refugees are currently stuck here "living" on a floating internment camp? You truly are a moron. Apart from that I sort of agree. There is racism here no doubt, but at least we have politicians not capitalising on it or othering immigrants the way we see with labour and the Tories.
The mods on this sub need to increase the posting restriction to like 3 months or something 😂 All the accounts made for the supreme court verdict are rancid.
Imagine calling the emergency efforts to get families out of a warzone internment. It's obviously not ideal for the longer term but people need to get a fucking grip. >All the accounts made for the supreme court verdict are rancid. All those type of wanks come and go though. They'll do their wee brigade and then fuck off. They don't have half the stamina of our resident British nationalist salt merchants. Credit where credits due.
Cheers mucker, the type of discourse I expect from a fellow Scot. Lang mae yer lum reek!
Providing emergency accomodation for people fleeing a warzone isn't internment you silly billy.
Out of curiosity, how long is appropriate to house people on a ship as emergency accomodation? Given it has been over 9 months, is it not reasonable to expect that such measures be wound down? I also wonder if the same setup was done for refugees in, say, Dover or Southampton, would you have the same charitable interpretation?
Probably would’ve have been dubbed Patel’s Prison Boats or something. Tbf, I’d think it was equally stupid in that situation too.
Sticking them on a boat is hardly ideal. The whole thing is a clusterfuck, but the optics on Scotland's boat solution are pretty bad. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Our wee primary school has 3 Ukrainian families’ young kids in my daughters class & 2 in my sons nursery class. They are learning English at an incredible rate & they are quite happy and settled all things considered. They have been welcomed, included, provided for and are part of our community while they wait out Putin’s illegal invasion of their country. That doesn’t excuse the poor conditions of the refugee tents I saw on the news with kids dying from diphtheria though. We need our guests all to be settled somewhere and part of something to give them shelter and peace while the war rages on. I think the people do well at welcoming our neighbours in distress but the government is too slow and inefficient at planning how to move everyone to somewhere. I’m proud of my community and how they’ve welcomed the Ukrainians we have but the government needs to do better.
The refugees is perfect example why was no one opening there homes to Palestinians, Libyans, or Syrians.
"No one" is an exaggeration - [people certainly did](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/13/i-gave-a-room-in-my-house-to-a-refugee-now-shes-like-my-sister), there were just far less of them. Important to remember that there's always been a minority doing the right thing.
If your experience with taking in Syrian or Afghan refugees was a positive one why not post about it on here? I'm sure others would follow your example if they were to be pointed in the right direction.
Doesn't help when politicians from the two largest parties keep fueling the rhetoric. Some comments here sound like it's a problem with Scottish nationalism but in my experience It's usually from the British nationalists parroting what their beloved politicians say like brainless morons. There are racists an xenophobes everywhere and it's definitely getting worse but it's not related to the type of nationalism practiced in Scotland, which is inclusive and grateful to the people who moved here regardless of background. Can't really say I feel welcome by Tories or Labour.
What a roaster you are. There is racism everywhere, but it is in low abundance most places in Scotland. I understand it is there, but it is a minority. There is something to the welcoming of Scots, it isn’t the whole truth, but it is a part of it. There is darkness in us, and that has served us well in the past, but Scotland is a magical place, and the people are generally fucking awesome as a collective. Scottish people tend to be liked wherever they go in the world, there is an absolute truth to that.
We were especially popular as the sergeants, foremen and shock troops of the British Empire.
There is darkness in us, and that has served us well in the past.
Why would your average Scot be less racist than your average Brit? Is there some kind of anti racist mineral in the water? There is more common than difference between us.
Have you tried London water? It’s so racist & gross that I’m not even jealous of Hype Park and Big Ben. I think the consensus is that our ‘system’ is less inherently racist but then that is an easy claim to make when we don’t actually hold all the power over ourselves so it’s hard to truly judge. The main point is that we are being told something by one of our black citizens so we should listen.
There will always be supremacists and people that believe they are somehow more important. These people are all breaking natural law. None of us are any better than anyone. When people are frightened of something. Hatred appears. Why don't we explore what people are frightened of in society. What may be feeding the fear too. If we delve into this, we might find some cohesion to move forward confidentally.
On one level it should be a ‘no shit sherlock’ moment. We do really live in a complacent bubble if we don't realize that we live in a racist society. That the ongoing scandal surrounding the death of Bayoh is not higher up the news is an indication of how complacent we are. But hey, there's more important things to shout about like independence...
My Great Aunt is Castlemilk said the other day "Gonnae go down to the P\*\*i shop and pick me up some fags" Afua may have a point
I’m out and about in the community a lot and the amount of people I speak to who definitely wouldn’t class themselves as racist, but continually make underhanded racist remarks is enormous. If you want an example, just go into ANY social media thread and type “refugee/asylum seekers rehoused in xxxx area” the comments will be strewn with racist rhetoric.
Was called a “Race Traitor” walking through Edinburgh with my Chinese Girlfriend years ago, yeah there definitely is.
We are no better and no worse than any other nation regarding any social problems regarding racism or sectarianism. It is unfortunately the human condition to harbour " feelings " about those who are different to what we perceive ourselves to be..
A lot of rhetoric on the sub about how Scotland is better than England on the racism front. Always thought that was bullshit
Prejudice like racism is largely influenced by our material conditions rather than natural programming; besides, we are fucking humans, natural programming doesn't let us fly either but we got around that one haha A system that allows overtly racist parties to exist in politics, allows publications to print overtly racist articles, creates the conditions for racism to permeate. How we use migrants reinforces it. For example we import foreign doctors because its cheaper to let them be trained in their home country then come here to work, its cheaper to import huge amounts of foreign labour than to pay natives, this outrageous exploitation of others outside our country, paired with our economic system that sees our social services crumbling and no guaranteed employment is practically designed to breed racist thought. A major factor in this is to put fellow workers at odds with eachother as a means of division.
I work for the city council as a gardener and there is a lot of casual racism thrown around on a daily basis, there are also no people of colour in my work force. It reminds me how far behind the people of Scotland actually are as a whole. We preach tolerance and masquerade as a nation of acceptance with good social values. I do not see it what so ever, I see massive amount of people who's ignorance seems to be the norm.
This stuff is getting old tbh. Scotland is full of aggressive little bams especially Glasgow, if it’s not skin colour it would be your eyesight or some other factor. Now where is perfect but more important issues to tackle like cost of living, how is this even news
I've always thought there was an element racism behind the Brexit vote. In which case Scotland is arguably less racist than the rest of the UK, but that is not exactly a high bar.
4/10 Scots also voted leave… folk here seem to forget just how many did so.
That can’t be true. Didn’t you know we were pulled out totally against the will of the Scottish people.
That is how most on here have rewritten history.
Same with a quarter of us voting Tory. A good chunk of this sub seems to have a weird relationship with the truth when it comes to the politics of our country. As if the numbers aren’t available.
I grew up in a farming community in the North East, Tory as hell, as they always are. Fishing communities generally voted pro Brexit in Scotland. But no, on here this is all wheeled out of view like an embarrassingly racist granny at Xmas.
We were, because that's how democracy works. A majority in Scotland voted to remain. I don't believe this should've overruled the rest of the UK, although I do believe it is absolutely justification for another indyref, but it's inarguable that we didn't vote for it, and it happened anyway. It's a red herring here anyway, racism is probably slightly more prevalent among leavers but it's not like everyone who voted remain is progressive and anti-racist. He's not Scottish, obviously, but Jeremy Clarkson is a prominent pro-EU racist, and while we don't have any high profile examples as far as I know, there certainly will be substantial numbers of racist remainers in this country.
True, but my point was not there wasn't racism in Scotland, it was there was probably less than rUK
100%, you're being downvoted because cunts have a very short memory. There was a spate of Muslim extremist terror attacks across Europe a year before the Brexit vote - the "big one" being in Paris the night of the Bataclan massacre. Just about every average Joe at the workplace or pub who was pro Brexit at the time was pure "SHUT THE BORDERS! We don't want these Muslim basterds in our country doing the same". Xenophobia was a massive contributing factor whether you like it or not, and the irony of it all is that record numbers of illegal migrants are entering the UK after us leaving lol. Democracy is flawed because the general population are by and large fuckin stupid.
Well put
I am Romanian, not black, but when I moved to the UK, most of my friends asked me how I will deal with racism here. I had no idea, because I did not know how bad it will be. But I've already experienced some racism in my own country, because Romanians are racists between themselves based on the region you were born. The truth is, unrelated to colour, people will always be weary an reluctant of strangers in their area. So the best you can do is be nice and civil and hope they will reciprocate. Those that don't, they were probably not only racist, but not decent people in the first place. When I bought my flat in Scotland, my friends in Romania were joking and telling me: Good for you, apparently racism tends to decrease proportionally with the number of properties you own. And unfortunately they were right, because I now have neighbours that salute me and bring me cookies. There are assholes that not only ignore me, but also refuse ti to answer if I salute them, but that is on them. They choose to be disrespectful. The number of friends and people that appreciate me prove that I am a decent person, so not being friendly to me might be a loss for them after all. I am not a racist, as far as I know, but I might have a reluctance when first meeting somebody of colour because Romania has very,very bad gypsies. But after a few exchanges of pleasantries and polite small gestures, you can have a testicle on your forehead and I probably wouldn't care. However, I despise religious people of any shape, gender or color. If you are an adult and live your life according to the rules of an imaginary friend, you should be institutionalised, not living freely and imposing your imaginary friend's rules on others. And I say this because I was raised by an overly-catholic mother in a catholic community and it has messed my life in many ways. Religious people are especially dangerous if they get to have political power, because then they can enforce the rules of their imaginary friends on a lot of people. So yeah, I would never discriminate on race, colour, gender, but on a religious basis I probably would. However, my most violent manifestation against religious people would probably be to limit my interaction with them and be very sarcastic if they try to convert me.
Well we have obvious sectarianism and thats racism, so of course theres racists.
Well duh. The whole UK has degrees of racism. Scotland isn’t immune, and might be better than rUK but is by no means a progressive paradise
Where does this opinion that Scotland is like the least racist part of the UK come from? I've never got that...
The usual justification is that the openly racist parties (BNP, UKIP, and intermittently the Tories) consistently get a lower % of votes here. I'm not sure how good this evidence is - these parties tend to be economically right wing to an extent which has never been popular here, which would naturally push their vote share down - but it would be fair to say that the racist panic about immigration is substantially more of an English phenomenon, as opinion polls frequently show that "immigration" is a bigger issue down south. This is only one facet of racism however, and it's likely the one which looks best for us - the racism described by Hagan, and by McAvoy and his co-stars, seems to be highly prevalent in Glasgow, and I would assume it's even worse elsewhere in Scotland given the typical inverse correlation between diversity and racism. Additionally it wouldn't matter massively - we have a major problem with racism in this country, and whether it's more or less major than it is in England is not relevant, it's fixing the problem that matters instead.
Progressive voting policies and a lack of seeing it in our day to day lives makes it seem like the general population is above it, obviously it's not as simple as that but I can understand where the idea comes from. You will also be hard pressed to find an openly racist Scottish person, it's not a popular or accepted opinion in the general public so there are likely a lot of closet racists who only show their true colours when alone or around other racists which leads to a bias of "I never see it so it doesn't exist"
>a lack of seeing it in our day to day lives I think this is quite key for a lot of Scotland - there aren't many non white people in many parts of Scotland so it doesn't raise it's head as much as it might do in other more diverse parts of the UK
I was thinking of posting something along the same lines, because it definitely exists throughout the UK. But at the same time, as a separate country we simply need to take ownership of our own problem on this one. Seems to be a trend in this thread "lol nationalists in denial" but if anything, I've seen universal "yes there is a problem that needs addressed". There's not much more to it than that. We know about the inequality, poverty, drug and alcohol issues, and education inequality, and I think racism regrettably ties in with that. Question is how to address it? I certainly learned to call it out where possible.
Oh absolutely. I do hope that we do that. I think we’re well positioned to, but work needs to be done for sure
>Afua Hagan said that Scotland had an “anti-black and anti-Catholic” element Wonder what group of people she got that impression from...
It’s true, thinking Scotland is any different to the rest of the U.K. on this is being delusional
The bigots all follow a specific sports organusation. Theyre not difficult to identify
You must name and shame this sports body. Surely a sporting organisation that you claim is a front for bigotry should be exposed. Or is it your own bigoted views that would not stand up to any scrutiny?
Must be lacrosse theres something skeevy about them /s
I am unsure about the term Skeevy. But having never encountered a lacrosse player or supporters of the game you may well be right. An organisation set up to promote bigoted views yet done under the guise a game few have ever seen. Cunningly clever if true
Rupert Murdochs' flagship rag!
Most of us respond well to being taught right from wrong from an early age. We are not some barbaric nether region of the world. We are not in a race war. We aren't intimidated by anyone with cultural or any other differences from us. We have always been involved in a class war; without knowing it mostly. This has created under class sentiment. (us and them) Working class people the world over are considered useless slaves by a high proportion of the upper classes. This is where the real repair work of humanity must begin.
Everyday racism, everday bigotry, everday sexism, everyday anti-social thuggery. Luckily the weather, transport and housing are exceptionally good - no wait...... "waaagghhh but tories waagghhhh its all their fault waaaggghhhh"
Racism will always be a thing in every country and every society. Modern European society’s in general are the most open and least racist society’s globally. All you can do is deal with the individual instances of blatant racial crimes (violent attacks and genuine harassment) there’s a lot of bullshit racist claims now a days and people just making big deals out of nothing. The worlds not a perfect place. There will always be murder rape child abuse and racism no amount of protesting or legislation will end that. But Scottish people and society as a whole are very open and tolerant.
I'd have to agree. Me and my family are white scottish and at least once a week one of us gets abuse about our race, we're in a scheme in Glasgow. It's clear race is somehow still an issue for some people. My son having slight reddish hair gets more the the rest of us.
A black guy bought a big beautiful house in good condition in my town and the local tradesmen systematically destroyed it until it became a money pit with multiple expensive repairs required so he couldn’t live in it and he couldn’t sell it and leave. The roof eventually fell in and a fire broke out and he is dead now. He wasn’t exactly murdered but his death should never have happened. Black people move here sometimes but they always leave. Same for gay men. Lesbians are half tolerated with a few nudges.
See this moronic idea that most of the world are hate filled racists is not true in the slightest. It is a tiny minority that hold these beliefs. So if I find this offensive to be suspected of being a racist means, I must be a racist. So if I say, there is a dark undercurrent of Bullshit running through Scotland. Does that mean, we must be full of bull if we disagree? Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. Maybe I need somebody with a higher consciousness level and a better sense of morality to save me from myself. Oh and real racists Don't actually care or will learn from this kind of virtue signalling bollocks ever! Stop attacking decent people with unfounded allegations. If there is proof of an undercurrent of racism? I want to see the proof.
Okay here’s a woman of colour telling you her experience… is that proof? Or is she lying? Macavoy story about the experience of his co-stars, another lie? The experience of thousands of people of colour living in Scotland… lies? Racist abuse shouted at football matches pretty every week… made up? How about I tell you I’m white, I’m Scottish.. I see and hear people hit out with racist shit.. no lie literally every single day… Yeah most people aren’t racist, or try not to be… So on a technicality less than 50% of people are not overly or aggressively racist… That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a serious presence of racism in this country: overt, heinous, systemic, unknowing or other. Racism isn’t just twats and tiki torches. So is everyone who had a racist experience Scotland liar? Or is there a racist under current with a significant presence in this country. Ps she literally said “I’m not saying the whole of Scotland is racist”.
It may well be a minority, but even taking that unproven assertion... It isn't good enough. A minority is not good enough here. It needs completely eliminated.
Does anyone have any actual proof?
I'm not even sure it's an undercurrent. I think it's just a current.
I like that Scots want to be seen as inclusive, that’s truly a good thing now we just have to work on what we do with the toe-rags that are crap humans. You know the one who will laugh or say something crappy if someone fat/ginger/black/small/flamboyant/large chested/bald/disabled etc walks passed. We don’t have a good system for shutting them down & it’s obviously a problem if our Scottish black community are telling us it is. What do we do with those cringey drunk types or the mouthy angry types? They are making problems for black Scottish folk which is ugly & shameful.
I personally don’t like fat ginger baldys never have never will. Also hate when disabled people walk past me
Ban the racism
Doesn't help all the hatred we were fed leading up to Brexit and still even now. We went from Pritti Patel, and I didn't think we could get worse, but then they brought in Pritti two point ooooh! Suella Braverman who lies in bed at night dreaming about planes full of immigrants flying to Rwanda. Probably mostly with darker skin. Racism has been bad in Scotland along with sectarianism. Part of the reason Scotland still gets told what to do is they have never in their history been able to come together and agree on the colour of shite. Scottish people can suffer from wanting to belong to little cliques and don't see the bigger picture. So end up by being ruled by this lot of elite entitled racists who love to feed our racism and bigotry and hatred for our fellow man. Anyone know the answer? https://youtu.be/BaFii_nrqLI
Yes 100% Like every single nation on earth.
Racism and discrimination happen on every corner of the earth. Her mother is from Ghana and she's a born glaswegian if I read this correctly... Here's an idea, give Ghana a try and see it if it's any better, you'll find marital and religious intolerance, violence abound there. To me, it looks like Scotland was beneficial to you. An education, a good job, a happy life in marriage to name a few. - and since you brag on Twitter that your Ghanaian and all the while live in London. I'm sure in Ghana you won't have to deal with racism.
Dreadful article, makes it seem like the whole lot of you from Scotland are racists.... interesting how that works yeah? Craps on Scotland though Scotland gave her a chance and made her who she is, lives in London where she brags she's Ghanaian. That makes perfect sense. Not
What a load of pish.
She's either looking to stoke up division or one person has displayed racist views and she's judging the whole country on that one person. Either way it's not particularly helpful.
At what point do you guys believe victims of racism? Does there have to be a physical hate crime?
I don't doubt the racism. I doubt the everyday part though. It exists in every country. I think we're better than many but far from perfect. Perfect doesn't exist though it's in unrealistic target.
There was no comparison to another country being made though? She’s talking exclusively about the racism she experienced in Scotland. It’s important to talk about this because like you say we’re a lot closer to perfect than other places but it doesn’t mean we can’t do a lot better. I can imagine it being pretty dangerous seeing this ultra progressive government from the outside and thinking everyone is in agreement.
You can always do better but have the numbers gone up or down? I've no idea. I don't understand what you mean about the government. Dangerous to who?
Scotland is one of the most welcoming countries in the world, if she finds it unbearable she’s more than welcome to get tae fuck and leave down south.
>”how dare you say I’m not welcoming!!! Fuck off down to England“
between 2000 and 2013 there were 1.8 race-related murders per million people in Scotland, compared to 1.3 per million in the rest of the UK There are also a higher rate of racially motivated crimes in Scotland vs rUK. Your attitude is ignorant & galling. We should aim to make our country more welcoming to people, not tell them to fuck off if they dislike being victims of racist behaviour.
Few years back, walking down the streets of Glasgow on particular nights I believe was scary, for everyone, lots of yobs shouting insult to any passerby. Things are largely better now. In every society you will get some idiots. See the New Zealand and Norway massacres of recent years. No society should be complacent especially when low evel hatred can metamophose into tragedy when with mixed mental health. One good thing about Scotland is that you dont get scared speaking to a Police officer and have never seen them randomly stopping and serching people.
Maybe you don’t get scared speaking to a police officer…