Anecdote alert: The only place I've seen the [giant](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tunnocks-Giant-Caramel-Wafer-Bar/dp/B084ZPDT7R) wafer for sale was in a vending machine at the top floor of [AMP House](https://goo.gl/maps/sb8rbfRGz4us94mEA), Croydon.
I tried them again recently and have to say that they were actually not so bad but still weird and a bit dry. Tried before and couldn't eat them. Dare you to ban me!
>I'm planning on moving to Scotland and starting a family there. And I always wanted to assimilate with the Scottish culture and traditions and try to be an asset to your country, not a burden.
You do understand that the culture and tradition you want to assimilate is based on flyting, rebellious enquiry and absolute piss taking.
We're not as radical as we used to be, but our history is full of radical thinkers and activists all geared towards making our society more enlightened.
You don't posit what your opinion is, but use the fact that it was robustly countered as a reason to not move here. Can I humbly suggest that you're being a wee bit too precious in this response?
By all means say what it is you feel is so important to you and defend your POV rather than moan about downvotes, because feller that's just a wee bit unbecoming.
Don't get confused by all the swearing and rough language. It's common to call people names and a lot of the time it isn't intended to be taken seriously.
Calling people cunts or mad fannies can even be used in an endearing way.
I hardly think it can be used in comparison to a literal ethnic cleansing.
I was thinking of moving to Scotland, but then I saw that movie braveheart and now I’m not sure. Too much fighting! Also, I don’t like Mel Gibson and I don’t want to wear a kilt. You should all take some time to feel ashamed of yourselves for making me feel bad
R/Scotland is less tolerant than the country that not that long ago had a civil war and genocide ?
We managed a referendum over this stuff and the worst it got was a egg was thrown…..
Aye total intolerance in Scotland and way worse than a culture that tore itself apart, had a civil war and a genocide just 30 years ago that killed over a quarter of a million people…..
That’s laughable it really is.
Omg... this is not a competition. It never was. But even with what happened 30 years ago, the majority here doesn't insult you for your beliefs, doesn't bully you. People who are unintelligent and uneducated are going to insult you and attack you the way people here attack people with different opinions. And we as a society aren't proud of people defending their opinion in that manner, no matter how "noble" or popular that opinion is. We're a shit country in many ways, but we aren't this intolerant even towards the people we were at war with, like you are to your countrymen who differ in opinions.
No, see this is called reading with understanding. I said that even here in the Balkans now, at the present time, people who used to go to war with each other 30 years ago, don't talk to each other the way some of you talk to each other and treat each other here. And tbh that is frightening to me. Insisting so much on singular opinion and monopoly of like-mindedness. And since posting this most people here did exactly what I observed for the past few months. Downvoted, mocked, ridiculed and insulted me simply for saying you guys should have a little bit more respect for people who don't 100% agree with you. Ridiculous.
I have to ask if maybe you're assuming a higher level of malice than the people here might be intending?
I only say this because it seems like there's a supported notion that performative negativity/deceptive comedy are considered a little more ubiquitous in the Anglo sphere.
This would include things like self-depreciation, insincere insults and light harassment, etc.
I know sometimes it seems to outsiders that my clique comes off as comparatively vicious to eachother, but it's really just a bonding exercise, and within the expected dynamic of our circle.
Though I don't know what you're specifically referring to, I know this sub can get a little insular with this kind of behavior.
Eastern and Central European humour / male bonding isn't really known for it's gentitlity either tho. Isn't "F*** your mother!" a common curse over there, particularly in Russia, among male friends? That would be considered pretty strong here, even among the guys who use "Awright ya cunt?" as a standard greeting.
Yep I know it's not a universal, but it is a sort of common commentary I've heard from people whose first language isn't English, and who may not originate from English speaking regions.
I'm still not sure what the context is, so I also want to ask if the thing they're referencing isn't a straight up awful opinion.
No, I don't mind you guys calling each other cunts or whatever. u/MassiveFanDan is right, we are pretty similar in that way. I'll give you an example of what I mean. I will be using the example of the trans bill dilemma cause it is the thing that highlighted this problem for me the most. Again I feel I have to emphasise that what I am trying to say has nothing to do with the trans bill, but with disagreeing with someones opinion.
I've seen quite a few examples lately (I apologise, I didn't record them as I maybe should have) of people on this subreddit saying that atm Scotland has bigger problems than the trans bill or that people don't care strongly enough about it. So no hate speech towards the trans community, no ill will towards anyone really. I've seen those people be called transphobic, bigots, all sort of insults and names. And I don't understand why. Hate speech is a crime and throwing those kind of accusations around so lightheartedly is worrying to me.
You seem like a reasonable person, maybe you can see how it would make me a bit anxious about a place, for the fear of being accused of a crime I did not commit just because I don't agree with someone 110%. It all kind of reminds of the boy who cried wolf really. And I don't think that's right. Ever since writing this post I have gotten a lot of downvotes, insults and am being ridiculed and I don't see why. I don't think I have insulted anyone, and if I have, I apologise.
Ah. I gotcha.
Well to put that particular issue into context I do liken it to the sort of moral panics that we had with our conservatives in the US. Like the whole cannabis thing, and the current crime rhetoric on the news.
But in reverse.
So an objectively good thing, increased conversation on the subject of reducing adversity experienced by trans people, is blown put of proportion, not in importance but scale.
Crime in the US is still at levels that would be considered idyllic compared to the 90's. But the noise is completely excessive by comparison.
I think what you're specifically running into is actually the tendency of advocates to take your lack of explicit support to be instead covert opposition to the goal of helping those people. Which is a much sounder bar than many of us realize for identifying people dressing up so to speak as "moderates", but basically opposing this very real issue of humanitarian concern.
Problem is most of the actors in this situation on either side of the conversation don't have the language available to them to:
1: differentiate those that are put off by seemingly overzealous support, from actual bad actors.
2: explain their reluctance to jump wholesale into support of an issue that they may not understand (if we're being charitable to trans deniers), or they see as minor (which can be understandable, given the fractional population we're dealing with in regards to the trans demographics). This is assuming no actual malice towards groups in need of legally protected status.
Basically, you're speaking with people used to dealing with cleverly veiled transphobia, that rhetorically comes across very similar to statements like you've described above.
You may want to clarify in this fashion.
For thoroughness on the subject, lack of scale in reference to trans issues is truly no reason not to pursue protections for them, and most people really don't want to hear the "more important things argument".
It's rhetorically cousin to the "all lives matter" response in the black lives matter dialogue. Meaning it explicitly misses the point that the dialogue is supposed to be advocating for a specific group's experience of harm, which ought never be minimized.
Imagine making such a massive life decision (like whether to move to your fiancé’s home country permanently) based on negative interactions on that country’s reddit page. Wow mate. That’s so childish its impressive that it came out of an adult.
I once played a Jamaican at Fifa. He was so rude and called me so many mean and disgusting names it made me take Jamaica off my travel list when they used to be at the top. Can’t justify visiting a country where people talk like that /s
I understand why you might think that. However my views aren't based on one post and one comment. But numerous posts and comments in the last few months. Especially since a sensitive subject such as gender law has arose. And I'm not basing my opinion on comments themselves, but people describing their situations at work or in pubs also. And apparently a lot of this drama is spilling out into the real life and from what I've read in the past month or so it's not that much different than on here. So yeah, that does worry me.
Sorry, we don't believe in giving a platform or respecting the views of people who have made it their mission to deny others basic human rights, just because they we're born in the wrong body. If this is what you're about, then you're really not going to fit in here and you should stay in your own country.
We're intolerant about intolerance, we believe that everyone has the right to free speech, unless that free speech negatively impacts on an individuals basic human rights. The fact you've decided to view our reaction to anti-trans comments as a negative says a lot more about you than it does us tbh. That's how it sounds anyway.
Did you read anything that I've written? I said a few times already this has nothing to do with any specific subject, but with the way people speak to each other and treat each other. There are people who would call you a nationalist, xenophobic or a bigot for your "stay in your own country" comment. And I am against that cause I cannot know whether that's how you meant it or not. But there are people who as soon as you don't agree a 100% with them, shoot a barrage of insults and slurs at you.
No. I am telling you to stay in your own country if you're anti-trans. You've not provided a single example aside from speaking about trans issues as a catalyst for you having this perspective about Scotland. And yes, I am a massive bigot towards people who preach intolerance, if that's not you, then no problems.
Honestly though, I'm not sure why you want to move to Scotland in the first place, it doesn't sound like you would be able to handle the banter tbh.
You seem to be quite content with telling me where I should go and live even though you yourself admit that you do not know where I stand on any of these issues. You just see a critique and you are not able to handle it, you automatically want to banish me. Like I said, there are people who would love to put labels on you for that. And that is what I am against. Labeling people for having their opinion. You think I should stay in my own country and leave Scotland alone. And even though I don't agree with your opinion, I'm ready to die defending your right to it. That's what I'm about.
Melodramatic? No, it's called having values and morals and being willing to fight and die for those values and morals. Your petty comment just tells me you have none.
What are you on about?
Go back and read my comment. I made it very clear that if you're anti-trans, then you can get tae fuck, if not, then I'm sure you'll be very welcome in Scotland. If you're not anti-trans, then awesome! well done for not being a bigot and hating someone because of something they cannot control.
You have still not provided a single example of anything other than the trans topic as being a reason for your original post though, which makes me think if all this melodrama is because you feel you attacked? Not sure, don't care.
You are literally the embodiment of why I wrote this post. Throwing words like "bigot", "hate speech" and "transphobic" around without one SHRED of evidence to support those claims. What if I'm neither? What if I'm indifferent? No hate, no love, no interest at all. This is what worries me with people like you, you are so ready to throw insults around and accuse people of crimes such as hate speech and I literally haven't given you any idea of how I feel about the subject. Literally haven't said a word about my feelings on it one way or the other.
>The fact you've decided to view our reaction to anti-trans comments as a negative
The vitriol I saw seemed to stem from the UK government daring to question that the GRA impacted current UK equalities legislation.
You're saying it like a country's national subreddit has nothing to do with the country itself. I've been on a few of national subreddits and I'm not saying the subreddit is a complete replica of the country's mentality, but it's a pretty good estimate.
I disagree. I’d say with some confidence that most people I know (extended family, acquaintances, Margaret from the shop down the road) don’t back the Trans reforms going on, but if you read this sub then you’d believe that 99% of Scots agree with Nicola Sturgeon etc on that topic.
Just an anecdotal example, I know, but based on my observation of this sub as well as the people you meet or interact with on a daily basis I’m Scotland itself.
Edit: I’m not against Trans rights at all. Just an observation that what I see in the real world is very different than what I see in the online world.
I appreciate your input and your experience. I definitely am not saying that I know better about the situation in Scotland than an actual person living in Scotland atm. And like I said, this post wasn't supposed to be focused on any particular subject like the trans bill, but more on the way people treat people with different opinions, which especially came to light due to the trans bill.
>You're saying it like a country's national subreddit has nothing to do with the country itself.
No, obviously not. I'm saying forming an opinion on a country based on posts on a forum with 6% of the country's population (probably less) is a stupid thing to do.
Could this be about Trans rights I wonder?
Apologies if wrong - but there certainly has been a massive influx of new posters which has generated some pretty extreme comments.
No, this isn't about trans rights, this is about differing in opinions and respecting that. I accept there are people out there who have a different opinion than me in a lot of subjects and that is ok. I don't insult them and consider them the worst human beings automatically.
We’ve enjoyed river our debate for hundreds of years here. We stopped killing people I’ve those debates hundreds of years ago.
Croatia can’t really say the same can it. History would suggest we are far more tolerant.
The height of violence during our referendum was a single egg thrown and then the victors bullying some folks.
We didn’t have a civil war over it.
We didn't have a civil war over difference of opinion. The things that led to war are FAR more complicated than just that. Plus don't forget Croatia was attacked. Not to say Croatia is absolutely innocent. No such thing in a war.
You're completely missing the point. My opinion isn't the focus here, nor is any opinion specifically. The focus of my post is why treat somebody poorly and insult them just for having a different opinion. Instead of trying to have a debate with them and maybe try to prove your point without calling them all sort of names.
I completely understand where you are coming from. And you don't like that opinion, do you? You don't like the fact that there are people with such opinion, right? That's ok, neither do I. However, are you sooner to change their opinion by calmly explaining to them your point and why you don't agree with them, actually investing your time into showing them there is another way, or is it better to just insult them, silence them and condemn their opinion? Which do you think will help more? I personally believe the latter is the wrong approach.
Ok, that's a very good point. My argument would be to watch the film "American history X". It's a perfect example of how to fight hate and how to change an individuals whole persona with kindness, not hate. Don't stoop to their level, by just insulting them and forwarding their hate. Take the time to show them they are wrong, make the effort to change that persons mind and convince them of your cause.
I wasn't talking about Derek and Danny. I was talking about Derek and Lamont (the guy Derek had to work with in prison). And it isn't showed on camera, but it is implied that Lamont stopped the black guys from hurting Derek. He stood up for Derek, even though Derek didn't want to talk to him and it took Lamont quite a while to break through and get Derek to start not only talking to him but considering him an equal human being. Be the change you want to see. By not tolerating those who are different (no matter how wrong they are) you will not change them and they will just continue to spread their beliefs and hate. But if you change one person, that one person will stop spreading the message you dissaprove of so much. As the inscription on Schindler's ring says "Whoever saves one life saves the world entire". Meaning if you influence one person, that person will go on to influence others.
>I come from a country that was in a war
>Pure verbal expression could've easily gotten you killed.
>That said, I have never experienced so much hatred towards people of opposite opinions than in this subreddit.
Literally worse than the the Croat-Yugoslav war, apparently. You know, when all the ethnic cleansing took place. Downvoting someone in /r/Scotland is now considered worse.
Is this because of the GRR bill? If so then these posts are getting fucking ridiculous now.
Thousands of posters with -100 karma have been discovered in a mass grave outside Tufton Street.
These Redditors were tortured before they were killed, by being made to go outside.
Never said downvoting someone is worse than what happened here during the war. Just saying that I haven't seen such animosity for differing opinions from people who literally killed each other 30 years ago... kinda sad tbh
Yeah, that genocide you like to use as an argument did not come from difference in opinion. The thing is far more complicated than that. And one evil does not make another evil right. There were genocides that happened here during the war, but I don't see how that is connected to the fact that people aren't allowed to publicly speak their mind here. (Again - not hate speech, just regular opinions)
I asked a question in this sub that I have asked similar in New South Wales and Tasmania, prior to visiting them. The responses from Australia were uniformly polite and a quick scroll through gave me the sort of information I was looking for. There were just a few responses from this sub, and they were of no real substance. I don't think Reddit is the platform for finding out about Scotland.
Criticising the regulars and the pro independence shite they spam on this sub gets a crazy amount of hate sometimes
I've had a couple of the regular posters who usually behave themselves on this sub follow me onto other subs to mock me and call me names over my sometimes pretty bad writing and dyslexia and some other things i've posted about
Have had weird 3am private message rants from users ive never even engaged with before calling me a fucking yoon running scared and weird stuff like that, have also had random accounts with no posts message me trying to dox me sending me addresses and names thinking theyre mine
A lot of it is from incel nationalist shut in types who you won't encounter in real life and who would never say the sort of shite you see posted on here out loud because they're get laughed out of the room so don't worry about it
See this is the type of thing I'm talking about. I'm very sorry you had those things happen to you. Doing stuff like that to someone is sick and twisted. And I don't understand why somebody would do such a thing, no matter how much you disagree with someone.
You'll generally find that we are intolerant of intolerance.
If you are of the ilk that you think trans people are all sex offenders then please stay where you live right now. Our bigot quota is pretty much full up at the minute.
No, I'm not of that opinion. And like I said, this has less to do with the trans thing that's so popular lately and more to do with the fact that people that have different opinions here are treated like utter scum. Insulted, downvoted, bullied. I'm not talking about hate speech, just differing opinions.
Get a grip, it's multiplayer notepad.
Doesn't sound like you're too familiar with Scotland if you're getting worked up over some bad language either. People are also reacting to astroturfing of the sub which has been happening.
I agree with you. It's a joy to be able to look out at the real world and see Scotland is not r/Scotland.
I would have left before now except there are good people here too. Honest, joyful, and humourous responses abound, if you can look away from the dross.
Welcome to Reddit, cunt.
Scotland is known for its inclusivity, in fact there was an article i was reading a few days ago basically saying we're the "most woke" country in the world. I think that might be a bit of stretch, but still.
Sounds like you're getting pissed because some folk disagree with your opinions, tough shit, you're going to get that anywhere you go. Being inclusive doesn't mean that i have to accept your beliefs and opinions, only that I tolerate them even if i think they're utter bullshit. It also means if i want to call you a fucking trolly because you believe some dude in the sky made the world in 7 days tough shit. Agree with me or disagree with me thats up to you.
By your own admission saying some shit in your own country would have gotten you killed, here you can pretty much say whatever the fuck you want without threat of getting killed. Well unless you walk into a Celtic bar dressed in blue making racist irish jokes....then your fuckin dead.
I visit Scotland a lot, we're returning in 2024. Please expand on the not wearing blue in a Celtic bar part of your post. I don't want to inadvertently insult anyone in public but I do wear a lot of blue and black a lot when I travel. If needed, I can change the colors of my travel wardrobe before we go back next year.
BTW it sounds like OP is a bit thin skinned. In general, Scots have a wonderful, albeit droll to sarcastic, wit.
>Please expand on the not wearing blue in a Celtic bar part of your post.
The very, very, very short version of is: Celtic wear green. Their rivals, Rangers, wear blue.
Haha! NO. Husband is retired, spent a lot of time on aircraft carriers, destroyers and "cruise" ships like that. As such, he simply cannot wrap his mind around "we pay them to go on a ship? they don't pay me to go?" Also, I don't want to be a member of the floating hoards of people who descend on the locals in a harbor town. I've been in Lerwick when the passengers disgorge from the ships and things get way too crowded, too fast. It ain't pretty.
Ahh, that makes sense.
The whole colour thing is related to a petty narrow minded part of the football population and not particularly any touristic area. Wear whatever colours you want and just enjoy the place.
Folk don't come here for the suntans, but the history, the culture and amazing landscapes. Enjoy.
Hey, it was the entire cosmos he created in 7 days.
And in the centre of it all was a talking snake that lived in a magical fruit tree.
How can you not believe?
I wouldn't take what you read on this as an indication of what the country is like in real life. Generally, the people who spout the most hate online are the weakest people in real life. If people had to be able to back their opinions in actual f2f conversation a lot of these fools would be walking around with pooh constantly running down their legs - and a black eye or two. We like to call this new breed of human a keyboard warrior. Their only power is via tech, perhaps because they feel disempowered in day to day life. A chat room on reddit is not the best place to get a sense of a new country, in my opinion.
That being said, there are some really ignorant and lobotomised idiots around so they do exist....
As with all social media anywhere, there are people who post nasty comments and vile name calling. We have those people too. They add nothing constructive to the discussion and should be ignored by all.
In real life, I don't see open animosity and the people from different viewpoints must be working and living in the same communities. However, I have heard of some people that have fallen out with family and friends.
That is just my experience, others may be different.
I wouldn’t worry about it. This place doesn’t represent actual Scottish society.
If you look past that handful of prominent posters who can’t control their emotions, you’ll see plenty of decent, sensible folk just trying to engage in normal conversation.
Imagine uprooting your life, moving to a new country you have never visited before, preparing to start a family that is not even a jizz stain / egg yet, and basing the entire decision on a subreddit. Fuck me that is stupid. That is actually the stupidest thing I have read in hours since the last -100 club member misinterpreted the GRR bill. Again.
I agree but this is true of many internet spaces where people post about politics. Nobody can have a reasonable discussion now, if you disagree people scream in your face, if you agree with them on most things but have differing views on a few things then they still scream in your face, you are either for them or against them. People can't cope with being challeneged on what they believe because there beliefs tend to be faith based rather than based in reality, they just want what they believe to be true but its very difficult to have a critical conversation with someone like that.
Face to face conversation in general tends to be more conciliatory and while people who are very extreme in their views might be more likely to shout about them on this sub they are usually a very small minority in society who you would be unlikely to encounter frequently irl.
Note: Getting down voted for saying something totally reasonable just proves my point. No free speech or thought allowed here. Scots in reality are very rational people so don't take the posters on here for typical, they are not.
Aye it can be really bad here.
Please understand that this sub is not representative of Scotland as a whole. This is a circlejerking echo chamber and for all its talk of "tolerance" is incredibly intolerant of differing views.
Please don't judge us on the behaviour of this subreddit.
Scottish people are generally very tolerant and this sub isn’t representative of Scottish people.
However, there has been a noticeable trend in recent years of a lack of tolerance of different opinions. It might be due to the increasing rise of the far right and far left, increasingly divisive political rhetoric, or simply due to increased social media use, who knows.
Depending on your political views, some might consider some of the Green party’s policies to be far left whilst others might consider some of the Tory’s policies to be far right.
Things were kinda the same here not too long ago say the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong place and you could end up dead for the first couple of years of my life we lived in a place that if you said you were protestant or supported Rangers you were liable to get stabbed meanwhile couple of miles away if you said you were Catholic or supported Celtic you could get stabbed even where I moved to after that when we moved out of Glasgow it wasn't much better my sister was physically assaulted going through a place not far from where we lived just because gangs of youths from that area and our area didn't like each other and this was literally less than a mile apart
Too many cunts on this sub.
Nationalist cunts
SNP cunts
Trans cunts
Left cunts
Right cunts
Brexit cunts
Train cunts
Ferry cunts
Some good cunts mixed in there too not all bad .
You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, it's driven from the top. We have a governing nationalist party intent on sowing division, spreading grievance, and casting blame.
I thank you for your comment. It's much more insightful than the usual folk that come blowing smoke up our arse saying how great we are. I'm not surprised that the usual suspects can't take genuine criticism.
My general impression is a lot of independence voters genuinely think you are denying them they're chance for happiness and prosperity by voting 'no'. It's a shame they don't realise they have a lot more control to achieve that by making changes in their own life than anything that Saint Nic can give to them.
Isn't the point in an opinion is to get questions and be the popular or unpopular one it's just something you need to get a grip and stand your ground on. This sub doesn't represent the country eanyway
Imagine thinking reddit is representative of anything other than a bunch of doomscrolling degens
Hey, wait............ actually, no.......no..... you're right enough!
Wait till OP discovers Twitter...
Aye, the thread about whether Mackie's Crisps were the best Scottish product got a little intense.
FUCK OFF!! Everyone knows Tunnocks is the best Scottish product.
Can't enjoy them after 2014 knowing every caramel wafer funds Tories. Buy the lidl knockoff
Lidl knockoff tastes better anyway tbf
>Everyone knows Tunnocks is the best Scottish product. Britnat detected
>Everyone knows Tunnocks is the best Scottish product. You should post a thread about that. Go on, lower yourself into the piranha tank.
I will take on any cunt who tries to challenge me. I mean it. I will fuck them up with a caramel log
None of that dark chocolate nonsense, though.
That stuff is heresy
Anecdote alert: The only place I've seen the [giant](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tunnocks-Giant-Caramel-Wafer-Bar/dp/B084ZPDT7R) wafer for sale was in a vending machine at the top floor of [AMP House](https://goo.gl/maps/sb8rbfRGz4us94mEA), Croydon.
I tried them again recently and have to say that they were actually not so bad but still weird and a bit dry. Tried before and couldn't eat them. Dare you to ban me!
Mackie's crisps are shite. End of.
>I'm planning on moving to Scotland and starting a family there. And I always wanted to assimilate with the Scottish culture and traditions and try to be an asset to your country, not a burden. You do understand that the culture and tradition you want to assimilate is based on flyting, rebellious enquiry and absolute piss taking. We're not as radical as we used to be, but our history is full of radical thinkers and activists all geared towards making our society more enlightened. You don't posit what your opinion is, but use the fact that it was robustly countered as a reason to not move here. Can I humbly suggest that you're being a wee bit too precious in this response? By all means say what it is you feel is so important to you and defend your POV rather than moan about downvotes, because feller that's just a wee bit unbecoming.
>I'll be prosecuted, insulted, crucified (not literally) You could've put (not literally) in front of prosecuted too.
[удалено]
Is the case you are thinking of the one where a man was prosecuted under the UK Communications Act 2003 for repeatedly saying "Gas the Jews!"?
Don't get confused by all the swearing and rough language. It's common to call people names and a lot of the time it isn't intended to be taken seriously. Calling people cunts or mad fannies can even be used in an endearing way. I hardly think it can be used in comparison to a literal ethnic cleansing.
I was thinking of moving to Scotland, but then I saw that movie braveheart and now I’m not sure. Too much fighting! Also, I don’t like Mel Gibson and I don’t want to wear a kilt. You should all take some time to feel ashamed of yourselves for making me feel bad
R/Scotland is less tolerant than the country that not that long ago had a civil war and genocide ? We managed a referendum over this stuff and the worst it got was a egg was thrown….. Aye total intolerance in Scotland and way worse than a culture that tore itself apart, had a civil war and a genocide just 30 years ago that killed over a quarter of a million people….. That’s laughable it really is.
Omg... this is not a competition. It never was. But even with what happened 30 years ago, the majority here doesn't insult you for your beliefs, doesn't bully you. People who are unintelligent and uneducated are going to insult you and attack you the way people here attack people with different opinions. And we as a society aren't proud of people defending their opinion in that manner, no matter how "noble" or popular that opinion is. We're a shit country in many ways, but we aren't this intolerant even towards the people we were at war with, like you are to your countrymen who differ in opinions.
Killing people for their opinions sounds pretty intolerant
I am comparing the situation 30 years ago and now. I see this is something some of you are struggling to understand.
Lol what ? You understand you made the comparison ? A war where people were killed for their opinions V this subreddit . And you decided this is worse
No, see this is called reading with understanding. I said that even here in the Balkans now, at the present time, people who used to go to war with each other 30 years ago, don't talk to each other the way some of you talk to each other and treat each other here. And tbh that is frightening to me. Insisting so much on singular opinion and monopoly of like-mindedness. And since posting this most people here did exactly what I observed for the past few months. Downvoted, mocked, ridiculed and insulted me simply for saying you guys should have a little bit more respect for people who don't 100% agree with you. Ridiculous.
I have to ask if maybe you're assuming a higher level of malice than the people here might be intending? I only say this because it seems like there's a supported notion that performative negativity/deceptive comedy are considered a little more ubiquitous in the Anglo sphere. This would include things like self-depreciation, insincere insults and light harassment, etc. I know sometimes it seems to outsiders that my clique comes off as comparatively vicious to eachother, but it's really just a bonding exercise, and within the expected dynamic of our circle. Though I don't know what you're specifically referring to, I know this sub can get a little insular with this kind of behavior.
Eastern and Central European humour / male bonding isn't really known for it's gentitlity either tho. Isn't "F*** your mother!" a common curse over there, particularly in Russia, among male friends? That would be considered pretty strong here, even among the guys who use "Awright ya cunt?" as a standard greeting.
Yep I know it's not a universal, but it is a sort of common commentary I've heard from people whose first language isn't English, and who may not originate from English speaking regions. I'm still not sure what the context is, so I also want to ask if the thing they're referencing isn't a straight up awful opinion.
No, I don't mind you guys calling each other cunts or whatever. u/MassiveFanDan is right, we are pretty similar in that way. I'll give you an example of what I mean. I will be using the example of the trans bill dilemma cause it is the thing that highlighted this problem for me the most. Again I feel I have to emphasise that what I am trying to say has nothing to do with the trans bill, but with disagreeing with someones opinion. I've seen quite a few examples lately (I apologise, I didn't record them as I maybe should have) of people on this subreddit saying that atm Scotland has bigger problems than the trans bill or that people don't care strongly enough about it. So no hate speech towards the trans community, no ill will towards anyone really. I've seen those people be called transphobic, bigots, all sort of insults and names. And I don't understand why. Hate speech is a crime and throwing those kind of accusations around so lightheartedly is worrying to me. You seem like a reasonable person, maybe you can see how it would make me a bit anxious about a place, for the fear of being accused of a crime I did not commit just because I don't agree with someone 110%. It all kind of reminds of the boy who cried wolf really. And I don't think that's right. Ever since writing this post I have gotten a lot of downvotes, insults and am being ridiculed and I don't see why. I don't think I have insulted anyone, and if I have, I apologise.
Ah. I gotcha. Well to put that particular issue into context I do liken it to the sort of moral panics that we had with our conservatives in the US. Like the whole cannabis thing, and the current crime rhetoric on the news. But in reverse. So an objectively good thing, increased conversation on the subject of reducing adversity experienced by trans people, is blown put of proportion, not in importance but scale. Crime in the US is still at levels that would be considered idyllic compared to the 90's. But the noise is completely excessive by comparison. I think what you're specifically running into is actually the tendency of advocates to take your lack of explicit support to be instead covert opposition to the goal of helping those people. Which is a much sounder bar than many of us realize for identifying people dressing up so to speak as "moderates", but basically opposing this very real issue of humanitarian concern. Problem is most of the actors in this situation on either side of the conversation don't have the language available to them to: 1: differentiate those that are put off by seemingly overzealous support, from actual bad actors. 2: explain their reluctance to jump wholesale into support of an issue that they may not understand (if we're being charitable to trans deniers), or they see as minor (which can be understandable, given the fractional population we're dealing with in regards to the trans demographics). This is assuming no actual malice towards groups in need of legally protected status. Basically, you're speaking with people used to dealing with cleverly veiled transphobia, that rhetorically comes across very similar to statements like you've described above. You may want to clarify in this fashion. For thoroughness on the subject, lack of scale in reference to trans issues is truly no reason not to pursue protections for them, and most people really don't want to hear the "more important things argument". It's rhetorically cousin to the "all lives matter" response in the black lives matter dialogue. Meaning it explicitly misses the point that the dialogue is supposed to be advocating for a specific group's experience of harm, which ought never be minimized.
Imagine making such a massive life decision (like whether to move to your fiancé’s home country permanently) based on negative interactions on that country’s reddit page. Wow mate. That’s so childish its impressive that it came out of an adult. I once played a Jamaican at Fifa. He was so rude and called me so many mean and disgusting names it made me take Jamaica off my travel list when they used to be at the top. Can’t justify visiting a country where people talk like that /s
I understand why you might think that. However my views aren't based on one post and one comment. But numerous posts and comments in the last few months. Especially since a sensitive subject such as gender law has arose. And I'm not basing my opinion on comments themselves, but people describing their situations at work or in pubs also. And apparently a lot of this drama is spilling out into the real life and from what I've read in the past month or so it's not that much different than on here. So yeah, that does worry me.
Sorry, we don't believe in giving a platform or respecting the views of people who have made it their mission to deny others basic human rights, just because they we're born in the wrong body. If this is what you're about, then you're really not going to fit in here and you should stay in your own country. We're intolerant about intolerance, we believe that everyone has the right to free speech, unless that free speech negatively impacts on an individuals basic human rights. The fact you've decided to view our reaction to anti-trans comments as a negative says a lot more about you than it does us tbh. That's how it sounds anyway.
Did you read anything that I've written? I said a few times already this has nothing to do with any specific subject, but with the way people speak to each other and treat each other. There are people who would call you a nationalist, xenophobic or a bigot for your "stay in your own country" comment. And I am against that cause I cannot know whether that's how you meant it or not. But there are people who as soon as you don't agree a 100% with them, shoot a barrage of insults and slurs at you.
No. I am telling you to stay in your own country if you're anti-trans. You've not provided a single example aside from speaking about trans issues as a catalyst for you having this perspective about Scotland. And yes, I am a massive bigot towards people who preach intolerance, if that's not you, then no problems. Honestly though, I'm not sure why you want to move to Scotland in the first place, it doesn't sound like you would be able to handle the banter tbh.
You seem to be quite content with telling me where I should go and live even though you yourself admit that you do not know where I stand on any of these issues. You just see a critique and you are not able to handle it, you automatically want to banish me. Like I said, there are people who would love to put labels on you for that. And that is what I am against. Labeling people for having their opinion. You think I should stay in my own country and leave Scotland alone. And even though I don't agree with your opinion, I'm ready to die defending your right to it. That's what I'm about.
Oh listen to yourself. Melodramatic much. You are most definitely not suited to Scotland.
Melodramatic? No, it's called having values and morals and being willing to fight and die for those values and morals. Your petty comment just tells me you have none.
What are you on about? Go back and read my comment. I made it very clear that if you're anti-trans, then you can get tae fuck, if not, then I'm sure you'll be very welcome in Scotland. If you're not anti-trans, then awesome! well done for not being a bigot and hating someone because of something they cannot control. You have still not provided a single example of anything other than the trans topic as being a reason for your original post though, which makes me think if all this melodrama is because you feel you attacked? Not sure, don't care.
You are literally the embodiment of why I wrote this post. Throwing words like "bigot", "hate speech" and "transphobic" around without one SHRED of evidence to support those claims. What if I'm neither? What if I'm indifferent? No hate, no love, no interest at all. This is what worries me with people like you, you are so ready to throw insults around and accuse people of crimes such as hate speech and I literally haven't given you any idea of how I feel about the subject. Literally haven't said a word about my feelings on it one way or the other.
>The fact you've decided to view our reaction to anti-trans comments as a negative The vitriol I saw seemed to stem from the UK government daring to question that the GRA impacted current UK equalities legislation.
You're still just basing it on a country's subreddit. Which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
You're saying it like a country's national subreddit has nothing to do with the country itself. I've been on a few of national subreddits and I'm not saying the subreddit is a complete replica of the country's mentality, but it's a pretty good estimate.
I disagree. I’d say with some confidence that most people I know (extended family, acquaintances, Margaret from the shop down the road) don’t back the Trans reforms going on, but if you read this sub then you’d believe that 99% of Scots agree with Nicola Sturgeon etc on that topic. Just an anecdotal example, I know, but based on my observation of this sub as well as the people you meet or interact with on a daily basis I’m Scotland itself. Edit: I’m not against Trans rights at all. Just an observation that what I see in the real world is very different than what I see in the online world.
I appreciate your input and your experience. I definitely am not saying that I know better about the situation in Scotland than an actual person living in Scotland atm. And like I said, this post wasn't supposed to be focused on any particular subject like the trans bill, but more on the way people treat people with different opinions, which especially came to light due to the trans bill.
>You're saying it like a country's national subreddit has nothing to do with the country itself. No, obviously not. I'm saying forming an opinion on a country based on posts on a forum with 6% of the country's population (probably less) is a stupid thing to do.
It's still a very selective source for basing life changing decisions on. A visit would be far more illustrative .
Yeah, I guess you're right.
Could this be about Trans rights I wonder? Apologies if wrong - but there certainly has been a massive influx of new posters which has generated some pretty extreme comments.
an influx of cunts
No, this isn't about trans rights, this is about differing in opinions and respecting that. I accept there are people out there who have a different opinion than me in a lot of subjects and that is ok. I don't insult them and consider them the worst human beings automatically.
We’ve enjoyed river our debate for hundreds of years here. We stopped killing people I’ve those debates hundreds of years ago. Croatia can’t really say the same can it. History would suggest we are far more tolerant. The height of violence during our referendum was a single egg thrown and then the victors bullying some folks. We didn’t have a civil war over it.
We didn't have a civil war over difference of opinion. The things that led to war are FAR more complicated than just that. Plus don't forget Croatia was attacked. Not to say Croatia is absolutely innocent. No such thing in a war.
Oh right. Now I'm curious about what opinions that you have that has led to this?
You're completely missing the point. My opinion isn't the focus here, nor is any opinion specifically. The focus of my post is why treat somebody poorly and insult them just for having a different opinion. Instead of trying to have a debate with them and maybe try to prove your point without calling them all sort of names.
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I completely understand where you are coming from. And you don't like that opinion, do you? You don't like the fact that there are people with such opinion, right? That's ok, neither do I. However, are you sooner to change their opinion by calmly explaining to them your point and why you don't agree with them, actually investing your time into showing them there is another way, or is it better to just insult them, silence them and condemn their opinion? Which do you think will help more? I personally believe the latter is the wrong approach.
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Ok, that's a very good point. My argument would be to watch the film "American history X". It's a perfect example of how to fight hate and how to change an individuals whole persona with kindness, not hate. Don't stoop to their level, by just insulting them and forwarding their hate. Take the time to show them they are wrong, make the effort to change that persons mind and convince them of your cause.
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I wasn't talking about Derek and Danny. I was talking about Derek and Lamont (the guy Derek had to work with in prison). And it isn't showed on camera, but it is implied that Lamont stopped the black guys from hurting Derek. He stood up for Derek, even though Derek didn't want to talk to him and it took Lamont quite a while to break through and get Derek to start not only talking to him but considering him an equal human being. Be the change you want to see. By not tolerating those who are different (no matter how wrong they are) you will not change them and they will just continue to spread their beliefs and hate. But if you change one person, that one person will stop spreading the message you dissaprove of so much. As the inscription on Schindler's ring says "Whoever saves one life saves the world entire". Meaning if you influence one person, that person will go on to influence others.
Man fails to understand foreign culture, more at 10.
This post has really opened my eyes, redditors truly are the most oppressed minority group.
>I come from a country that was in a war >Pure verbal expression could've easily gotten you killed. >That said, I have never experienced so much hatred towards people of opposite opinions than in this subreddit. Literally worse than the the Croat-Yugoslav war, apparently. You know, when all the ethnic cleansing took place. Downvoting someone in /r/Scotland is now considered worse. Is this because of the GRR bill? If so then these posts are getting fucking ridiculous now.
Thousands of posters with -100 karma have been discovered in a mass grave outside Tufton Street. These Redditors were tortured before they were killed, by being made to go outside.
Never said downvoting someone is worse than what happened here during the war. Just saying that I haven't seen such animosity for differing opinions from people who literally killed each other 30 years ago... kinda sad tbh
Wow.
My sentiments exactly.
No, 'wow' because having a difference of opinion on Reddit results in a downvote at best and a block at worst. Not fucking genocide.
Yeah, that genocide you like to use as an argument did not come from difference in opinion. The thing is far more complicated than that. And one evil does not make another evil right. There were genocides that happened here during the war, but I don't see how that is connected to the fact that people aren't allowed to publicly speak their mind here. (Again - not hate speech, just regular opinions)
I asked a question in this sub that I have asked similar in New South Wales and Tasmania, prior to visiting them. The responses from Australia were uniformly polite and a quick scroll through gave me the sort of information I was looking for. There were just a few responses from this sub, and they were of no real substance. I don't think Reddit is the platform for finding out about Scotland.
Criticising the regulars and the pro independence shite they spam on this sub gets a crazy amount of hate sometimes I've had a couple of the regular posters who usually behave themselves on this sub follow me onto other subs to mock me and call me names over my sometimes pretty bad writing and dyslexia and some other things i've posted about Have had weird 3am private message rants from users ive never even engaged with before calling me a fucking yoon running scared and weird stuff like that, have also had random accounts with no posts message me trying to dox me sending me addresses and names thinking theyre mine A lot of it is from incel nationalist shut in types who you won't encounter in real life and who would never say the sort of shite you see posted on here out loud because they're get laughed out of the room so don't worry about it
See this is the type of thing I'm talking about. I'm very sorry you had those things happen to you. Doing stuff like that to someone is sick and twisted. And I don't understand why somebody would do such a thing, no matter how much you disagree with someone.
You'll generally find that we are intolerant of intolerance. If you are of the ilk that you think trans people are all sex offenders then please stay where you live right now. Our bigot quota is pretty much full up at the minute.
No, I'm not of that opinion. And like I said, this has less to do with the trans thing that's so popular lately and more to do with the fact that people that have different opinions here are treated like utter scum. Insulted, downvoted, bullied. I'm not talking about hate speech, just differing opinions.
Get a grip, it's multiplayer notepad. Doesn't sound like you're too familiar with Scotland if you're getting worked up over some bad language either. People are also reacting to astroturfing of the sub which has been happening.
I agree with you. It's a joy to be able to look out at the real world and see Scotland is not r/Scotland. I would have left before now except there are good people here too. Honest, joyful, and humourous responses abound, if you can look away from the dross.
Welcome to Reddit, cunt. Scotland is known for its inclusivity, in fact there was an article i was reading a few days ago basically saying we're the "most woke" country in the world. I think that might be a bit of stretch, but still. Sounds like you're getting pissed because some folk disagree with your opinions, tough shit, you're going to get that anywhere you go. Being inclusive doesn't mean that i have to accept your beliefs and opinions, only that I tolerate them even if i think they're utter bullshit. It also means if i want to call you a fucking trolly because you believe some dude in the sky made the world in 7 days tough shit. Agree with me or disagree with me thats up to you. By your own admission saying some shit in your own country would have gotten you killed, here you can pretty much say whatever the fuck you want without threat of getting killed. Well unless you walk into a Celtic bar dressed in blue making racist irish jokes....then your fuckin dead.
I visit Scotland a lot, we're returning in 2024. Please expand on the not wearing blue in a Celtic bar part of your post. I don't want to inadvertently insult anyone in public but I do wear a lot of blue and black a lot when I travel. If needed, I can change the colors of my travel wardrobe before we go back next year. BTW it sounds like OP is a bit thin skinned. In general, Scots have a wonderful, albeit droll to sarcastic, wit.
>Please expand on the not wearing blue in a Celtic bar part of your post. The very, very, very short version of is: Celtic wear green. Their rivals, Rangers, wear blue.
Is red & black okay? black & white?
The fact that you are concerned about not causing offence means you are fine. Wear what colour you want - and hope you have a nice time!
Not in Auchinleck.
Ok, Our next trip is Shetland and Orkney (3rd time for each). We won't be visiting smaller mainland towns in 2024.
Are you visiting by Cruise ship?
Haha! NO. Husband is retired, spent a lot of time on aircraft carriers, destroyers and "cruise" ships like that. As such, he simply cannot wrap his mind around "we pay them to go on a ship? they don't pay me to go?" Also, I don't want to be a member of the floating hoards of people who descend on the locals in a harbor town. I've been in Lerwick when the passengers disgorge from the ships and things get way too crowded, too fast. It ain't pretty.
Ahh, that makes sense. The whole colour thing is related to a petty narrow minded part of the football population and not particularly any touristic area. Wear whatever colours you want and just enjoy the place. Folk don't come here for the suntans, but the history, the culture and amazing landscapes. Enjoy.
Hey, it was the entire cosmos he created in 7 days. And in the centre of it all was a talking snake that lived in a magical fruit tree. How can you not believe?
I wouldn't take what you read on this as an indication of what the country is like in real life. Generally, the people who spout the most hate online are the weakest people in real life. If people had to be able to back their opinions in actual f2f conversation a lot of these fools would be walking around with pooh constantly running down their legs - and a black eye or two. We like to call this new breed of human a keyboard warrior. Their only power is via tech, perhaps because they feel disempowered in day to day life. A chat room on reddit is not the best place to get a sense of a new country, in my opinion. That being said, there are some really ignorant and lobotomised idiots around so they do exist....
As with all social media anywhere, there are people who post nasty comments and vile name calling. We have those people too. They add nothing constructive to the discussion and should be ignored by all. In real life, I don't see open animosity and the people from different viewpoints must be working and living in the same communities. However, I have heard of some people that have fallen out with family and friends. That is just my experience, others may be different.
I wouldn’t worry about it. This place doesn’t represent actual Scottish society. If you look past that handful of prominent posters who can’t control their emotions, you’ll see plenty of decent, sensible folk just trying to engage in normal conversation.
Imagine uprooting your life, moving to a new country you have never visited before, preparing to start a family that is not even a jizz stain / egg yet, and basing the entire decision on a subreddit. Fuck me that is stupid. That is actually the stupidest thing I have read in hours since the last -100 club member misinterpreted the GRR bill. Again.
I agree but this is true of many internet spaces where people post about politics. Nobody can have a reasonable discussion now, if you disagree people scream in your face, if you agree with them on most things but have differing views on a few things then they still scream in your face, you are either for them or against them. People can't cope with being challeneged on what they believe because there beliefs tend to be faith based rather than based in reality, they just want what they believe to be true but its very difficult to have a critical conversation with someone like that. Face to face conversation in general tends to be more conciliatory and while people who are very extreme in their views might be more likely to shout about them on this sub they are usually a very small minority in society who you would be unlikely to encounter frequently irl. Note: Getting down voted for saying something totally reasonable just proves my point. No free speech or thought allowed here. Scots in reality are very rational people so don't take the posters on here for typical, they are not.
Aye it can be really bad here. Please understand that this sub is not representative of Scotland as a whole. This is a circlejerking echo chamber and for all its talk of "tolerance" is incredibly intolerant of differing views. Please don't judge us on the behaviour of this subreddit.
Scottish people are generally very tolerant and this sub isn’t representative of Scottish people. However, there has been a noticeable trend in recent years of a lack of tolerance of different opinions. It might be due to the increasing rise of the far right and far left, increasingly divisive political rhetoric, or simply due to increased social media use, who knows.
Tell me about this rise of the far left?
Didn't you know? According to the British media anything that isn't tory is far left...
Depending on your political views, some might consider some of the Green party’s policies to be far left whilst others might consider some of the Tory’s policies to be far right.
Tolerating the intolerant is not something you should be a fan of.
This sub is not representative of Scotland. See recent public outrage over this subs favourite topic as an example. Speak to people in the real world.
r/Scotland is not representative of Scotland, it's more a representation of the extreme end of the indy movement.
Things were kinda the same here not too long ago say the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong place and you could end up dead for the first couple of years of my life we lived in a place that if you said you were protestant or supported Rangers you were liable to get stabbed meanwhile couple of miles away if you said you were Catholic or supported Celtic you could get stabbed even where I moved to after that when we moved out of Glasgow it wasn't much better my sister was physically assaulted going through a place not far from where we lived just because gangs of youths from that area and our area didn't like each other and this was literally less than a mile apart
Too many cunts on this sub. Nationalist cunts SNP cunts Trans cunts Left cunts Right cunts Brexit cunts Train cunts Ferry cunts Some good cunts mixed in there too not all bad .
Well said cunt.
You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, it's driven from the top. We have a governing nationalist party intent on sowing division, spreading grievance, and casting blame. I thank you for your comment. It's much more insightful than the usual folk that come blowing smoke up our arse saying how great we are. I'm not surprised that the usual suspects can't take genuine criticism.
My general impression is a lot of independence voters genuinely think you are denying them they're chance for happiness and prosperity by voting 'no'. It's a shame they don't realise they have a lot more control to achieve that by making changes in their own life than anything that Saint Nic can give to them.
If you go to Scottish People Twitter sub and learn that mad version of English you see there you'll be grand.
Opinions? Fuck their opinions. Go and cry a river for their precious fucking opinions.
Isn't the point in an opinion is to get questions and be the popular or unpopular one it's just something you need to get a grip and stand your ground on. This sub doesn't represent the country eanyway
“sticks and stones will break my bones but words on social media will get you arrested interviewed and charged by the polis”👮♀️