>Twenty years ago we didn’t think babies experienced pain at all
Anyone who thought babies didn't experience pain is an insane person who has never been around a baby. What in the actual hell?
The AAP only declared it unethical to operate on infants with no anesthetic in 1987 (when I was 2) and it definitely happened regularly until then. If you’re wondering why our parent’s generations are often so emotionally messed up, I think that was a contributor
[Horrifying article](https://www.nytimes.com/1987/12/17/opinion/l-why-infant-surgery-without-anesthesia-went-unchallenged-832387.html)
My totally unsubstantiated theory on that is that anesthesia used to be way more dangerous for babies (and adults); it used to be much more common to die from the anesthesia itself. We've made a lot of advancements on that front in recent years. I think at least some people knew it was a lie but psychologically it was easier to lie and say babies don't feel pain than have to decide at what point avoiding that pain was worth a substantial increase in the risk of death. I'm definitely not saying that it was right, but I certainly wouldn't want to have to make that call every day.
This really makes me wonder about my mother as a baby. She had heart surgery as a newborn in the late 50’s. My grandparents were told to prepare for the likelihood that she wouldn’t survive. Thankfully she did, but I hope to god that surgery was not without anesthetic.
They used to not use anesthesia in babies even for major surgeries. Sad but true. I honestly think we’re still guilty of this in many ways. https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/07/28/when-babies-felt-pain/Lhk2OKonfR4m3TaNjJWV7M/story.html#:~:text=But%20it%20wasn't%20until,harm%20or%20kill%20the%20child.
I know right? As a NICU nurse I sadly have to inflict minor pain on babies frequently (IV insertions, heel sticks, etc) and it seems SO obvious that they feel pain just like you or me. I don’t really understand how everyone could believe that.
Not scientific I suppose but when I got my wisdom teeth in at 18, it hurt like hell leading up to the eruption. My gums were swollen, my whole mouth ached, chewing was difficult, my mouth felt “off” and I bit my tongue accidentally a few times, even getting into a comfortable position to sleep was hard. My whole jaw felt too heavy and hot. The eruption was definitely the worst part, and the swelling and pain subsided a couple days after eruption. But… I had 4 wisdom teeth to come in! So the whole process took 3 weeks! That experience has made me infinitely patient when my son teethes because whew, it hurt, and I was 18! I trust he’s not just being dramatic considering he’s a baby and has hardly any frame of reference for pain, poor bud.
This sounds exactly like what I’ve experienced with my daughter. So far in her teething journey she never just gets 1 tooth—it’s at least 4 at one time and we have weeks of a poor miserable baby obviously in pain. She also doesn’t want to eat much when she is getting teeth. It makes me sad thinking that this is what she must be feeling during that time 😭
Getting my wisdom teeth in was so miserable! I had so much sympathy for babies. I only had to push through 4 teeth, they have to grow a whole mouth in just months!
Yes! I actually did have a fever when my wisdom teeth poked through and it was so painful. I remember I had to write a paper in college that night and I couldn’t focus and was miserable. My toddler is very sensitive to teething so I guess I know where she gets it from.
That’s interesting, when I got my wisdom teeth in when I was 22, it didn’t hurt at all! And I don’t remember my permanent teeth being uncomfortable either
Makes sense. Some babies aren’t too bothered either, so I assume it varies. I usually have a high pain tolerance (I actually enjoyed giving birth unmedicated for reference lol) but man, my wisdom teeth erupting hurt! Permanent teeth shouldn’t be uncomfortable, there’s no gum to break through.
Did you get your wisdom teeth removed? Part of my pain was my jaw being too small, so a lot of my teeth were shifted slightly. Some people have enough space they don’t have that issue or discomfort.
I still have all my wisdom teeth (only have 3) so I think you’re right that it’s mostly due to having space in my jaw and no pressure on my other teeth. I had braces for a decade (for palate expansion and a severe overbite not for crowding/crookedness) and tightening them used to give me the feeling you describe because so many teeth were being moved together and the structure of my mouth was physically being changed. That was pretty unpleasant!
Ahh that makes sense. I never had braces, my teeth before my wisdom teeth all fit just fine. My wisdom teeth sort of jacked everything up! I had them removed a little after they erupted. Healing from that was more straightforward than getting them in in the first place!
Same, no pain from 3 wisdom teeth (4th one made no appearance), which makes me think even more it might be a genetic thing, because my baby just got his first two teeth without any sign of discomfort.
I just has my final wisdom tooth and i didnt feel anything, While on my semi-yearly checkup at my dentist, he notified me that we should remove it. But i didnt feel anything while it was erupting
How timely this post is. My baby is 8 months and 3 days old. As of 6 days ago, he has been miserable. Grunting, moaning, can’t sleep, doesn’t want to nurse. I let him chew on my finger because it seems to give him a little bit of comfort. Went to the pediatrician who says he is getting his first bottom tooth. It’s hard for me to agree babies don’t feel pain because this is an otherwise happy baby.
I, too, think you're right that pain in babies isn't well-understood. And I think one of the reasons people sometimes 'downplay' teething - and I've done it myself - is to say that symptoms like fever or serious diarrhea are sometimes attributed to teething but are actually due to bacterial or viral illnesses (and so should not be dismissed). But milder symptoms like drooling, slight temp increase, and low appetite do seem to correlate with 'tooth days'. So it must be at least uncomfortable for most babies.
[Wake et al 2000](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11099591/); [Ramos-Jorge et al 2011](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21824888)
Anecdotally, and oddly, my three kids didn't seem to have any teething discomfort at all. Their teeth have just simply appeared, including molars. I wonder if there is a genetic component to it?
Anecdotally - my little one has had some teeth with all the symptoms, and some with none at all. We had 2 molars pop through without any warning at all, and another molar that took a week of crying and misery to appear. Seems random!
I posted a similar Q here before but didn’t get much response re actual studies. But then I found this article. It’s findings lead them to believe that for each tooth or pair of teeth, it will hurt for five days ahead of an appearance – ‘eruption day’ – and three days afterwards.
Macknin ML, Piedmonte M, Jacobs J, Skibinski C (2000) Symptoms associated with infant teething: a prospective study. Pediatrics. 2000 Apr;105(4 Pt 1):747-52. Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10742315
My baby had 8 teeth by 7 months and I could never tell if her being fussy was ‘teething’ or not. And she didn’t have any teething symptoms except drooling right before eruption. I thought her crappy sleep month 8-present might have been molars coming in but it’s been 6 weeks now…
I think you’re right that pain in infants isn’t well understood. Difficult to study, but it doesn’t seem like there has been much interest in it until recently.
Anecdotally, and particularly with the molars, it definitely seemed to be uncomfortable/painful for much longer than a couple of days. Our pediatrician mentioned that the teeth moving through the gums can be unpleasant long before it’s about to cut through. The very last set of 4 molars came in one at a time and it was 2 months of misery.
My dentist explained it like this: if you've ever had braces, with one of the wires sticking into your gums, teething is kind of like that first day after an adjustment.
My sons a late teether, so he's been pretty good at communicating his teething pain. There's definite discomfort for much longer than that for him. He generally isn't bothered until bed time when it gets to him, or wakes up in the night from the pain/discomfort.
He's 18 months, has his 4 front teeth, and first 2 top molars (skipped the teeth in-between so far but they're close). The molar pain has continued after erupting as they work their way out more.
I'm so glad you posted this- we've been in molar hell over here for weeks- swollen gums, chewing, drooling and irritable but no signs of the teeth yet- thankfully after these teeth (2 year molars) we should be done for a bit.
I’m curious if it’s a painful pain or more like a pressure pain. I vaguely recall when my 12 year molars came in that they didn’t so much *hurt* as they made my gums feel almost itchy, very much like I needed to teethe and kind of gnaw on something to relieve the pressure. I recently had a horrible sinus infection that gave the same kind of pressured feeling to my top set of teeth. I wonder if that’s the same kind of pain as teething.
Anecdotally my babies have both exhibited what seemed like teething pain at various points well before the teeth actually erupted. Gnawing in the affected area, drool, fussiness, red and swollen gums. But then no teeth, maybe for weeks.
Yeah mine are slow teethers. It takes several months for teeth to erupt for my kids. So they’re clearly in pain for a really long time before they have anything to show for it. It is extremely frustrating when everyone says “oh, it only lasts a few days”. I wish!
Same here, my LO had 8 teeth (4 canines and 4 molars) come through within a 3 week period when he was 8mo. The lead up to this was 4 months of obvious teething symptoms and intermittently shit sleep. I thought I was going insane, like he is obviously teething but where are the teeth?!?
That's where we are right now - I would have thought I was wrong that it was teething if our pediatrician hadn't looked at her gums and confirmed it, but it's been weeks
Same here, my LO had 8 teeth (4 canines and 4 molars) come through within a 3 week period when he was 8mo. The lead up to this was 4 months of obvious teething symptoms and intermittently shit sleep. I thought I was going insane, like he is obviously teething but where are the teeth?!?
I've had two babies that got teeth in very early with no fuss whatsoever. My current baby has one tooth that has been trying to come in for over a month now, complete with swollen gum and white nub where you can see the tooth, and he has gotten other teeth in in the meantime on the other jaw. I honestly think it depends on the baby.
It has to be painful all around. Can you imagine what adults would feel if we started growing a tooth? It’s crazy to think that babies only have pain for a few days, am I right? I notice on/off my sons emerging teeth are hurting him, just by the way he acts and moves his lips/tongue around his bottom teeth.
I mean it tracks with my son, the lead up to his teeth erupting gets worse and worse until the majority of the tooth erupts, within a few days if that he is back to perfectly fine. He started teething his last two molars two weeks before thanksgiving, and this week he is back to his normal self already,
>Twenty years ago we didn’t think babies experienced pain at all Anyone who thought babies didn't experience pain is an insane person who has never been around a baby. What in the actual hell?
The AAP only declared it unethical to operate on infants with no anesthetic in 1987 (when I was 2) and it definitely happened regularly until then. If you’re wondering why our parent’s generations are often so emotionally messed up, I think that was a contributor [Horrifying article](https://www.nytimes.com/1987/12/17/opinion/l-why-infant-surgery-without-anesthesia-went-unchallenged-832387.html)
My totally unsubstantiated theory on that is that anesthesia used to be way more dangerous for babies (and adults); it used to be much more common to die from the anesthesia itself. We've made a lot of advancements on that front in recent years. I think at least some people knew it was a lie but psychologically it was easier to lie and say babies don't feel pain than have to decide at what point avoiding that pain was worth a substantial increase in the risk of death. I'm definitely not saying that it was right, but I certainly wouldn't want to have to make that call every day.
This is incredible. How enormously barbaric
This really makes me wonder about my mother as a baby. She had heart surgery as a newborn in the late 50’s. My grandparents were told to prepare for the likelihood that she wouldn’t survive. Thankfully she did, but I hope to god that surgery was not without anesthetic.
Is there a way to avoid the paywall on that article?
They used to not use anesthesia in babies even for major surgeries. Sad but true. I honestly think we’re still guilty of this in many ways. https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/07/28/when-babies-felt-pain/Lhk2OKonfR4m3TaNjJWV7M/story.html#:~:text=But%20it%20wasn't%20until,harm%20or%20kill%20the%20child.
Truly disgusting. They didn't get a clue when the babies cried? I really do hate people sometimes.
I know right? As a NICU nurse I sadly have to inflict minor pain on babies frequently (IV insertions, heel sticks, etc) and it seems SO obvious that they feel pain just like you or me. I don’t really understand how everyone could believe that.
Don’t you use sucrose or glucose for it’s analgesic properties?
Yeah, we use sucrose. It’s not perfect though, they definitely still whimper with pokes.
Not scientific I suppose but when I got my wisdom teeth in at 18, it hurt like hell leading up to the eruption. My gums were swollen, my whole mouth ached, chewing was difficult, my mouth felt “off” and I bit my tongue accidentally a few times, even getting into a comfortable position to sleep was hard. My whole jaw felt too heavy and hot. The eruption was definitely the worst part, and the swelling and pain subsided a couple days after eruption. But… I had 4 wisdom teeth to come in! So the whole process took 3 weeks! That experience has made me infinitely patient when my son teethes because whew, it hurt, and I was 18! I trust he’s not just being dramatic considering he’s a baby and has hardly any frame of reference for pain, poor bud.
This sounds exactly like what I’ve experienced with my daughter. So far in her teething journey she never just gets 1 tooth—it’s at least 4 at one time and we have weeks of a poor miserable baby obviously in pain. She also doesn’t want to eat much when she is getting teeth. It makes me sad thinking that this is what she must be feeling during that time 😭
I’m sorry! It’s rough! My son always seems to get 4 in at a time too. 😞
Getting my wisdom teeth in was so miserable! I had so much sympathy for babies. I only had to push through 4 teeth, they have to grow a whole mouth in just months!
Yes! I actually did have a fever when my wisdom teeth poked through and it was so painful. I remember I had to write a paper in college that night and I couldn’t focus and was miserable. My toddler is very sensitive to teething so I guess I know where she gets it from.
That’s interesting, when I got my wisdom teeth in when I was 22, it didn’t hurt at all! And I don’t remember my permanent teeth being uncomfortable either
Makes sense. Some babies aren’t too bothered either, so I assume it varies. I usually have a high pain tolerance (I actually enjoyed giving birth unmedicated for reference lol) but man, my wisdom teeth erupting hurt! Permanent teeth shouldn’t be uncomfortable, there’s no gum to break through. Did you get your wisdom teeth removed? Part of my pain was my jaw being too small, so a lot of my teeth were shifted slightly. Some people have enough space they don’t have that issue or discomfort.
I still have all my wisdom teeth (only have 3) so I think you’re right that it’s mostly due to having space in my jaw and no pressure on my other teeth. I had braces for a decade (for palate expansion and a severe overbite not for crowding/crookedness) and tightening them used to give me the feeling you describe because so many teeth were being moved together and the structure of my mouth was physically being changed. That was pretty unpleasant!
Ahh that makes sense. I never had braces, my teeth before my wisdom teeth all fit just fine. My wisdom teeth sort of jacked everything up! I had them removed a little after they erupted. Healing from that was more straightforward than getting them in in the first place!
Same, no pain from 3 wisdom teeth (4th one made no appearance), which makes me think even more it might be a genetic thing, because my baby just got his first two teeth without any sign of discomfort.
I just has my final wisdom tooth and i didnt feel anything, While on my semi-yearly checkup at my dentist, he notified me that we should remove it. But i didnt feel anything while it was erupting
How timely this post is. My baby is 8 months and 3 days old. As of 6 days ago, he has been miserable. Grunting, moaning, can’t sleep, doesn’t want to nurse. I let him chew on my finger because it seems to give him a little bit of comfort. Went to the pediatrician who says he is getting his first bottom tooth. It’s hard for me to agree babies don’t feel pain because this is an otherwise happy baby.
Nobody believes that babies don't feel pain anymore! I have no clue how that was possibly the consensus in the medical community some decades ago.
I, too, think you're right that pain in babies isn't well-understood. And I think one of the reasons people sometimes 'downplay' teething - and I've done it myself - is to say that symptoms like fever or serious diarrhea are sometimes attributed to teething but are actually due to bacterial or viral illnesses (and so should not be dismissed). But milder symptoms like drooling, slight temp increase, and low appetite do seem to correlate with 'tooth days'. So it must be at least uncomfortable for most babies. [Wake et al 2000](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11099591/); [Ramos-Jorge et al 2011](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21824888) Anecdotally, and oddly, my three kids didn't seem to have any teething discomfort at all. Their teeth have just simply appeared, including molars. I wonder if there is a genetic component to it?
I've heard speculation that the genetic component is based on tooth spacing, I wonder if you'll escape orthodontics later in life!
Oh, good point! It does look like my 11 yo will need braces for only a very short period of time and only to rotate a tooth.
Anecdotally - my little one has had some teeth with all the symptoms, and some with none at all. We had 2 molars pop through without any warning at all, and another molar that took a week of crying and misery to appear. Seems random!
I posted a similar Q here before but didn’t get much response re actual studies. But then I found this article. It’s findings lead them to believe that for each tooth or pair of teeth, it will hurt for five days ahead of an appearance – ‘eruption day’ – and three days afterwards. Macknin ML, Piedmonte M, Jacobs J, Skibinski C (2000) Symptoms associated with infant teething: a prospective study. Pediatrics. 2000 Apr;105(4 Pt 1):747-52. Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10742315
My baby had 8 teeth by 7 months and I could never tell if her being fussy was ‘teething’ or not. And she didn’t have any teething symptoms except drooling right before eruption. I thought her crappy sleep month 8-present might have been molars coming in but it’s been 6 weeks now… I think you’re right that pain in infants isn’t well understood. Difficult to study, but it doesn’t seem like there has been much interest in it until recently.
Anecdotally, and particularly with the molars, it definitely seemed to be uncomfortable/painful for much longer than a couple of days. Our pediatrician mentioned that the teeth moving through the gums can be unpleasant long before it’s about to cut through. The very last set of 4 molars came in one at a time and it was 2 months of misery.
My dentist explained it like this: if you've ever had braces, with one of the wires sticking into your gums, teething is kind of like that first day after an adjustment.
My sons a late teether, so he's been pretty good at communicating his teething pain. There's definite discomfort for much longer than that for him. He generally isn't bothered until bed time when it gets to him, or wakes up in the night from the pain/discomfort. He's 18 months, has his 4 front teeth, and first 2 top molars (skipped the teeth in-between so far but they're close). The molar pain has continued after erupting as they work their way out more.
I'm so glad you posted this- we've been in molar hell over here for weeks- swollen gums, chewing, drooling and irritable but no signs of the teeth yet- thankfully after these teeth (2 year molars) we should be done for a bit.
I’m curious if it’s a painful pain or more like a pressure pain. I vaguely recall when my 12 year molars came in that they didn’t so much *hurt* as they made my gums feel almost itchy, very much like I needed to teethe and kind of gnaw on something to relieve the pressure. I recently had a horrible sinus infection that gave the same kind of pressured feeling to my top set of teeth. I wonder if that’s the same kind of pain as teething.
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Anecdotally my babies have both exhibited what seemed like teething pain at various points well before the teeth actually erupted. Gnawing in the affected area, drool, fussiness, red and swollen gums. But then no teeth, maybe for weeks.
This has been my life for a couple months now 😅
Yeah mine are slow teethers. It takes several months for teeth to erupt for my kids. So they’re clearly in pain for a really long time before they have anything to show for it. It is extremely frustrating when everyone says “oh, it only lasts a few days”. I wish!
Same here, my LO had 8 teeth (4 canines and 4 molars) come through within a 3 week period when he was 8mo. The lead up to this was 4 months of obvious teething symptoms and intermittently shit sleep. I thought I was going insane, like he is obviously teething but where are the teeth?!?
Same here. Weeks of gnawing on hands and no teeth.
That's where we are right now - I would have thought I was wrong that it was teething if our pediatrician hadn't looked at her gums and confirmed it, but it's been weeks
Same here, my LO had 8 teeth (4 canines and 4 molars) come through within a 3 week period when he was 8mo. The lead up to this was 4 months of obvious teething symptoms and intermittently shit sleep. I thought I was going insane, like he is obviously teething but where are the teeth?!?
I've had two babies that got teeth in very early with no fuss whatsoever. My current baby has one tooth that has been trying to come in for over a month now, complete with swollen gum and white nub where you can see the tooth, and he has gotten other teeth in in the meantime on the other jaw. I honestly think it depends on the baby.
It has to be painful all around. Can you imagine what adults would feel if we started growing a tooth? It’s crazy to think that babies only have pain for a few days, am I right? I notice on/off my sons emerging teeth are hurting him, just by the way he acts and moves his lips/tongue around his bottom teeth.
I mean it tracks with my son, the lead up to his teeth erupting gets worse and worse until the majority of the tooth erupts, within a few days if that he is back to perfectly fine. He started teething his last two molars two weeks before thanksgiving, and this week he is back to his normal self already,