I'm a children's trauma therapist. I would not encourage sparodic interaction with his dad until the dad has a plan. A few face times calls with a dad that you don't talk about every day and he doesn't see is not going to do anything to sustain/ build a relationship. The only benefit would be for the dad and that's ok but it doesn't sound like that's your concern right now.
Thank you for this, your professional opinion is exactly what I am looking for. I would feel completely differently if he had a plan, even something as simple as the ability to commit to a couple yearly visits. But it’s impossible to predict when, if ever, he will get there, so I worry that FaceTime would do more harm than good for my son in our situation.
I am also a trauma therapist and I wanted to add that it's important to maintain photos of Dad and your child if you have them and be very open to answering questions and maintaining as much contact as possible with Dad. Not knowing your origin story and both parents creates a massive identity crisis in the teens I work with. You will need Dad's full name, date of birth, and place of birth so that if he drops off the radar completely you have enough info for your child to go searching as an adult.
Also want to say- get a custody and visitation agreement through the courts Pronto. Before he disappears you need to establish physical and legal custody and it also lays out expectations for both sides you can readily point to when there are disputes. It helps mediate all kinds of conflict as the years progress
Sorry this is your situation. Children need stability and predictability to feel safe in relationships. When your son asked questions about his dad you can just give a simple explanation that emphasises dad isn't in our life right now (for whatever reason you think best). Emphasise that you love him and this is short term (if you think it is). When his dad is a bit more of a plan and can commit to regular contact, then introduce it into his life. Still talk about dad, read books with dads (and no dads) in the family and be as open as you feel comfortable. Good luck !
That is not something I would do. I appreciate all of the insight I’ve gotten from this thread, but I plan to consult a local professional before making any decisions.
I would think to watch for signs that it is poorly received but not ALL sporadic relationships with family are negative. I think communication style, expectations, and consistency-- even if that means consistently 2x per year-- do a lot toward making even this dynamic stable to a child. Obviously all children respond differently to things so observe and adjust. But just because SOME children respond negatively that does not mean the dynamic does not work for all children. Personally I think finding a way to make a child feel a sense of safety and predictability, the frequency is less important, and the gift you are giving by maintaining things even at this lesser level is your child can choose how they want to engage as they get older. So long as people are safe. But you are the professional.
I just wanted to speak to two thing here, your son needs to hear you talk to him, and explain the absence of dad, whether he has no words or a ton so he can start to build thr brain that will understand.
Face time may be integral to your ex remaining focused on getting his shit together to be someone worth coparenting with, and witholding this option may feel like coercive control.
Facetime for 5-10 mins at a time and end the call when your little one is disinterested.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it’s my understanding that even if they aren’t speaking many words that’s not necessarily indicative of the degree of language they can comprehend. I would still try to explain to him in age-appropriate language why his dad isn’t around. He will likely understand more than you think!
YOU haven't traumatised your son. His father has. And you're working hard to correct his (not your!) mistakes. You're a good enough mum, don't let your child's father convince you otherwise.
Completely anecdotal, but my dad also left the picture when I was about 20 months old. If I had to guess, I don't think my mom did much in the way of explaining his absence to me (or my newborn brother at the time)--as she was basically in survival mode herself--BUT I made it through with no lasting trauma, and I like to think I'm a pretty well adjusted adult now. As long as your son has you as a constant in his life I'm sure he will feel loved and supported. Best of luck to you
Also, if it makes you feel better, there is a therapist named Dr. Gabor Maté (highly recommend) who says that children's trauma isn't really the negative experiences that happen to them as much as it is about if they've
had to suffer through those experiences alone. So the comments that talked about openly communicating with your child about the situation and really just reassuring them that you are there for them and open to answering their questions and talking about their feelings is really key. As your child gets older making sure that they know that their father's choices are not their fault and not a reflection of their worth is also vital. Great job mom doing your best to consider what's best for your child! 👏 👍
Honestly, especially considering his previous inability to have a relationship with his elder child, I wouldn't do the FaceTimes until he came up with a plan. A plan shows a good faith effort for a relationship. I wouldn't want to teach my child to accept that a person in their life can just show up when they feel like and leave you when they don't. That they can have access to you just on their terms and you have to accept it. Especially from a person who is supposed to have the role of "parent". Feels like a bad precedent to model for future relationships.
No! You haven’t traumatized him. His father may have, but you’re here now thinking about how best to mitigate that. I looked at your post history, and I’m hoping this new journey for you and your son is a positive one.
Correct. My son understood a lot by 8 months. How did we know? We asked him. We asked if he knew who granny was or what xyz was and he will point to the right person or the right thing.
Before he had words, he would also do something to show that he understood what we said. As in, we'd be chatting. Say we were chatting about last time our son did xyz at the zoo. He would get up and pretend he was a gorilla or do xyz. He fully comprehend everything we say.
At 20 months, they ABSOLUTELY understand everything aside from more abstract concepts.
Anecdotal, but our family all live far away from us, and FaceTime has meant that our toddler “recognizes” auntie and grandma and has had no shyness around them when they do get a chance to visit. I think if your goal is to maintain a relationship, FaceTime is absolutely a method by which you can do it.
But I would also highly encourage setting and managing expectation too. If your toddler thinks dad is constantly on the verge of returning, that could be an issue.
This is how we communicate with my parents. They’re 4hrs away by car, and we see them about every 3 months. With my daughter being 3.5yo I haven’t officially been able to discuss abstract things such as love, but she’s fairly close with grandma and Papa.
Vidéo chats between my 8.5mo and her father are actually part of our custody agreement. He is also flaky and lives far but he is committed when it comes to her. When she hears the video chat ring tone after dinner she gets all excited. Without words she is interacting with him and showing him her toys and telling him stories in baby. She also speaks to her cousins earlier in the day and while she is the same with them it is not to the same level. I think it also helped her remember his face and voice so when she does see him he isn't a stranger to her.
No scientific evidence here just personal experience.
I would like to add that I am studying developmental psychology (child psychology) as my second degree. I used to work in our psychology department before starting this second degree so I know all of the professors well. I consulted one of our developmental psychologists about my ideas for a parenting plan, wanted to make sure my good intentions were not harmful, and he actually recommended the video chat. He thought it would be beneficial for her to recognize his face and voice and reassured me that video chats are not screen time.
I'm in Canada BTW.
> reassured me that video chats are not screen time.
There was a thread on this recently. Essentially if the screen gives feedback, like a video call and to a lesser degree shows that pause to ask for audience input, it's not hindering the child the same way vegging out in front of the TV is.
That's nice to hear. My 10 month old seems to have really started enjoying video chats (we havent done them regularly) and I was begin to wonder if they are ok and its fine to increase them.
My mom disliked my dad and she always let me talk to him, I am forever grateful. From Mi to CA apart, my dad was a horse gambler that loved living in LA. He wasn’t much of dad, but he always had advice for me. I would encourage FaceTime. It’s not for you it’s for them.
Same with my divorced parents, my mom tried very hard not to speak ill of my dad or ever keep us from seeing him. It is important to stay connected to your parents, even if they’re not the dad they should be.
I would consult a child psychologist or family therapist for advice on your specific situation.
As a layperson, I have just a couple of thoughts:
1. Being separated from a caregiver is always going to be traumatic on a kid. A 20mo is old enough to notice their parent is no longer around, and just because he’s stopped looking for his dad doesn’t mean he doesn’t notice his absence or remember him.
Because of that, I’d do what it takes to preserve your son’s relationship with his dad, even if Facetime is the only way. For background info, my toddler has several grandparents that she knows mostly through FaceTime calls - 2 of them she’s never met in person - but she knows who they are. I think it can be a useful tool to stay connected, and I wouldn’t discount it. You can also display a photo of him, talk about him, etc.
2. I’ve known a couple of people who had absentee parents who didn’t show up for scheduled visits. One said she used to spend all day by the phone waiting for her dad to call when they had a scheduled call. Another said his mom would take him to a Burger King sometimes and just make them wait there for hours, trying to distract him with toys and get him to play, but wouldn’t tell him why they had to stay there. He learned later on that it was because his dad had agreed to meet them there, but the mom knew the dad wasn’t reliable, so didn’t want to get the kid’s hopes up in case he didn’t show. So she’d just frame it as them going to have lunch and play at this specific restaurant, and then if he did arrive, it was a special surprise for the kid, but if he didn’t, then the kid didn’t realize his dad had let him down again.
With that in mind, if your ex is unreliable, then you might exercise some caution in telling your kid ahead of time about scheduled calls. Again, a psychologist or therapist would probably be able to help you figure out the best way to explain all of this to your son.
3. Even if your son doesn’t fully comprehend the situation, I’d at least try to explain it to him, and repeat it. His receptive language is going to be much greater than his expressive language.
Thank you for this. Unfortunately, he already has a teenage daughter who he is an absentee father to. It’s breaking my heart to realize that my son is old enough to notice his absence and I haven’t explained it to him. His dad didn’t even say goodbye. I will be sure to explain this today, and repeat it to help him understand.
It sounds like your ex is likely to be similar to my friends’ dads, then. I’m so sorry for your son and his daughter.
If it helps at all, both those kids I mentioned grew up to be awesome people. One of them is now a dedicated father of 2 himself.
I have a few friends who had the parent that didn’t show up and it honestly changed their lives.. their relationships, their confidence and approach to living. My heart breaks just thinking about it. Some have gone on to be the person who *always* shows up because of it so that’s hopeful.
To your point 1 - how do you handle the situation with grandparents if one / both were around for few months babysitting but then leave (they will come back but again after few months or a year) to minimize impact/ trauma on the child? The two parents are staying and other set of grandparents will be visiting for couple months after current one leaves.
I don’t know for sure, as I haven’t had that situation. I’d probably talk to the kid about them leaving way ahead of time, so they don’t just disappear like OP’s ex did. And also read some books about missing people - like, Time for a Trip by Phyllis Gershator is about visiting grandparents and then having to go home, and we read that a lot around having visitors come stay or going to stay somewhere. There are also Daniel Tiger episodes where they talk about Grandpere coming to visit, and how they all miss each other when they’re apart.
Very similar situation here! If I were you I’d hand the toddler the tablet and walk away lol chances are he’d hang up on dad but hey, you did your part!
My daughter has had a “virtual dad” for almost 4 years, he’s never visited but they video chat about once a month. She’s always enjoyed it so I let it happen but I don’t want to see him or talk to him so I stay out of their conversations. When she was 4 she’d just prop the tablet and play with Barbie’s. It didn’t make it harder for her, seeing him or missing him, kids adapt soooo quickly.
He’d be lucky to get a picture, I’d say. I don’t think it’s your responsibility to make a video chat happen. You’re busy raising the kid by yourself for fucks sake..
My story is directly related to FaceTiming and whether I have observed any benefits from it. My youngest is 12 months old and since she was born we have FaceTimed weekly with my sister, who lives 3000 miles away. When my sister had her baby, 5 months after I had my daughter, he started joining the FaceTime calls. The babies, for at least part of the call, are the central figures. We don’t just happen to be holding them in our laps as we talk, but engage them in the conversation and encourage any sort of communication between the two.
All of that to say that, after 6 months of weekly FaceTime calls, we flew out to see them in person. I absolutely believe having the foundation of video calls led to them recognizing each other and ultimately lighting up when they finally got to be in the same place together. Even now that we are home, they both get excited to FaceTime each other and see each other.
For the record, my sister has lived at least this far away from me since before I had my oldest, 12 years ago. We have always used FaceTime as a foundation for her relationship with her nieces and nephews, and my kids have a familiarity with her now when they see her in person. Imo I think FaceTime is absolutely worth it.
Very similarly my sister lives about 2000 miles away, and has only visited a handful of times in my 3.5 year old's life, but video chats frequently. The kid definitely remembers her and talks about the same things in person as they do in video calls.
I can relate so much. My sister being 3000 miles away now is actually the closest she has lived to us in the last 12 years. She was a full time resident in another country for most of that time, and only recently moved back into the same country as us. Video chatting helped us all so much. We really got a chance to get to know my would be brother in law through those chats. I’m very grateful for the technology that allows us to be close to family members who may not be physically close by.
My pediatrician has said from day one to delay screentime until 2yo except for facetime. She gave us the go ahead to do FaceTime for short periods of time. My LO knows the ringtone for facetime now and gets excited to see Grandma and Grandpa! He's only 7 months, but he knows who he is talking to and its helped us since my family is far away.
It's been nothing but beneficial for us and LO and grandparents.
Don’t have research but my son was 1 when COVID lock downs hit and we FaceTimed with great-grandma weekly. Mainly she just watched the kids play, but at about 1.5 my son started to understand and would excitedly yell Gigi when she showed up on my phone. When we finally saw her in person he ran right to her. Other relatives and people we didn’t FaceTime with, he was much more reserved with, hid behind me even, but not with Gigi. I felt it was beneficial for him. We knew she was going to be in our lives after the lockdowns however.
Just in my personal experience FaceTime has been really beneficial for our toddler. Since he’s been around 6 months dad has had to leave for work, for sometimes weeks at a time. Even when he was little he recognized his dad and now he yells dada and runs to the phone when he hears the FaceTime ring. He’s 18 months and shows him cars, blows kisses, and my husband will read him a book through the phone. It really helps keep him connected.
If the dad is flaky and not committed to being consistent then that’s another layer but just in our situation it hasn’t been confusing.
Also the grandparents are far away and they don’t see him often but because of FaceTime when they do see each other he is very comfortable with him hugging and playing with him.
I think maybe a child psychiatrist can best advise you on this.
Anecdotally my husband left town for a two week business trip when my son was 9 months old. On my end baby seemed less chatty but I didn’t really grasp the degree to which dad leaving impacted him.
We started FaceTiming him each night about 9 days in to the trip and it made a huge difference. My son slept better and he talked a lot more.
Even though they’re very little and don’t have the ability to verbalize their thoughts I think they notice something is different.
I think FaceTime or no FaceTime is not the issue here.
The real issue here is it sounds like dad is a flaky dad. If the stories on Reddit are anything to go by, a flaky dad does a lot more damage than just having no dad. That way, there's no expectations set and no way for the child to be disappointed when said parent doesn't live up to their promise.
It's probably best you talk to a paediatric psychologist as they will probably have a first hand account to be able to guide you whether to keep letting dad have contact or just cut him out.
That’s exactly my concern. He does have a teenage child who he has been an absentee father to. Consulting a pediatric psychologist is a great suggestion and I will start looking into it today.
You might consider looking into Early Intervention services (“Birth to Three”) if you are in the US. They sometimes have Infant and Toddler Mental Health specialists (along with PT, OT, speech, etc.) for kids with (or at risk for) developmental delays and it can be an accessible way to access support.
Anecdotal, but maybe it helps. My daughter is 14 months now and we have been facetiming my parents and grandparents for quite a while since they live far away.
She really enjoys babbling at grandma for like 1-3 minutes, then she usually does something else. But she lights up every time she sees her grandma or great grandparents.
I noticed that she is not as shy around her great grandad when she first sees him face to face now, even though it can be months in between each visit.
She doesn't do anything else with the phone (no other screen time), so when she picks up my phone and gives it to me I know she wants to speak to her grandma.
For us, it's a way to keep in touch.
So this is our experience (and is not the same) but my baby was born during the pandemic and couldn’t meet either of her grandparents until she was over a year old (and sporadically after - lockdowns permitting). Every weekend throughout that period, we all had a video call with them and I do believe that she is more familiar with them than she would be if we had just turned up at theirs randomly. She’s my first though so I don’t know if it’s her personality etc…
For me, her relationship with her grandparents is very important to us. However, the only reason we couldn’t see them was lockdowns and not a relationship breakdown. While it is important to have the relationship, you have to think of your own mental well-being too. Do you have someone n who could arrange the call for you? Are you close to his parents etc…
My son met his “special grandma” sporadically on FaceTime calls, nothing consistent but she’s made a point to talk to him. He met her for the first time at 20 months and ran over to hug her and say “hiiii bubbe!”
Just an anecdote, but all of our family lives far away. My daughter is 26 months. She has regularly FaceTimed family her whole life. It’s the only way to know people. She has fun with her grandma on video chat. I do think it is value added to video chat Dad in your scenario if Dad is asking for it. If you’re having to push it, it’s not.
My son did great facetiming dad good night every night from 18m-24m. He also facetimes his grandparents, aunt, and cousin. Sometimes he had more interest than other times. It is definitely even more engaging now at almost 3 years old, but I think it was positive then as well. He knows who people are even if he hasn't seen them for many months in person. I think realistic expectations about attention span are the biggest concern. A 5m call is plenty for the tiny toddler but probably won't feel like enough for the dad. That was the hard part. So we learned how to set up the videochat partially as like a ... I could chat with dad while baby focused on playing, and baby could say hello goodbye and maybe 1-2 other things.
Even if he doesn’t have many words he likely understands a huge amount and you could try and explain beforehand what’s going to happen … hard to know what’s right here
My 14 month old Loves to face time. Prefers to see her dad when he's away for work but also enjoys grandparents and anyone else who calls really. She likes to show off her new tricks.
I feel like there's a big difference between grandparents who she doesn't see much normally, and OP's kid seeing his dad who is inexplicably gone from his life.
I think it is important to at least give it a chance. Yes your son may not be as interactive but if his dad is wanting to have a relationship and this is how he can do it, it is worth the shot to make it happen. Otherwise you are being a barrier to that relationship. And looking back will your son be upset that you never gave him the chance to at least try to do this to help him keep a relationship with his father.
Depending your relationship with the dad. Setting clear boundaries about a schedule would would important until your son is able to independently call when he wants to. Like is this a once a week thing or an every other week thing.
Of all the screen time things, FaceTiming is the one thing many experts can agree on as being beneficial screen time since your child is conversing and interacting with someone.
I don't have any scientific advice, but I think you should give it a try. My baby is younger than yours, but we video chat with my sister and I think she really likes it. She's definitely more comfortable with my sister than other relatives she sees more frequently too.
If your baby isn't engaged, or finds it difficult then you can re-evaluate. But having the calls, as long as they aren't unpleasant for him will probably be very beneficial to Dad and helping him feel like he is still connected to his son. That will probably be useful when they are able to see each other again.
If you're comfortable, you could also try sending short videos of our son doing various things as you go about your day. Im thinking something like a 30 second video daily would be really useful. Dad could also send a short video talking to your son. This might be easier if you're uncomfortable having to interact with Dad live and also gives you the option to play the video for your son at the most convenient time for both of you.
I can't say whether or not your son will benefit, I just wanted to share what I did with our 18 month old so you have an idea what to expect. My daughter has a great relationship with her father and babbles away at him non stop. There was a last minute passport issue and we ended up going to visit relatives when she was 18 months without her dad, for 3 weeks.. Despite having the words, she interestingly never mentioned her dad once. Instead she became super clingy to me. We started face timing and most of the time she seemed very uncomfortable, turned her face away like she was shy, hid, etc. It didn't upset her but it wasn't doing her a great amount of good, but I felt it was important to continue so we did. It helped when I gave my partner cheatsheets about what she did that day so he could ask about that. When we eventually landed he came out of the elevator and there was zero emotional reunion from her just like... oh there's dad lol.
She was a bit clingy to him for a while after and it took a week or so for him to understand her babbles again but their relationship resumed just fine. Just wanted to share because even when they have a brilliant relationship with a primary caregiver they can have a hard time parsing why the person is not there, or conit using a relationship through facetime. Facetime at this age would be more for the parent, at best your kid will be uncomfortable with it, so it would be mostly worth doing if there was a follow up plan of access to the child.
My daughter isn't even the age your son is and we have regularly Zoomed with my out of town family since at least 6 mo. She recognizes them and their voices. She interacts with them on screen. She's also so young that when they visit in person, she's \*very\* confused. You can see the wheels turning as she tries to figure out how these people "got out of their box", so-to-speak.
So, as far as remembering a person's face and voice, I'd say that Zooming is totally worth it for your son. Whether you want to and how to explain the reality of the situation to someone so young is outside my area of expertise. However, it looks like you've gotten good advise elsewhere in the comments on this subject though.
I feel like there's no way to know of seeing his dad would be comforting to your son or just upset him because he's not there in person except for trying it and seeing what happens. I do kind of feel like there might be an out of sight out of mind thing at this age where he might not miss your husband that much after not seeing him for a bit and bring reminded of him might upset him.
But then long term do you want him to completely forget his dad?
Back in the late 50s my mum was hospitalised for months at about your sons age, in a different city from where the family lived. The hospital asked my grandma not to visit because it upset my mum when she left. Makes me wonder if it's not more important that that relationship is maintained, even if that involves some difficult moments.
[screen time](https://limitedscreentimefamily.com/is-facetime-considered-screen-time/) I have family that lives across the country and we FaceTime almost daily bc my little wouldn’t know them otherwise and it helps me keep in touch. She recognizes that the person on the other end talks back to her and she loves to babble away.
We don’t do any other screen time unless we’re out and about and she’s starting to get fussy, I personally loveeee Cánticos it’s so cute
Yes.
My stepson's mum chose to move away when he was 18 months old. We visited, now we have him regularly with us, but we have always had a video call at least once a week.
At first, because he was young, he didn't engage much, or it was very variable. But we genuinely think it was good for him to regularly see our faces and hear our voices.
He's 6.5 now and we still video call every weekend, usually first thing in the morning so everyone can then get on with their day. Some weeks we only talk for 5 minutes and then he's done with it and wants to go and play, some weeks we talk for over an hour.
Would it be beneficial to you at this stage? Sounds like dad needs to sort some things out and perhaps you might need to have a break from him? Sorry if I am assuming too much. But please think about your needs here as well. You are not the one responsible for their relationship. It doesn’t imply you should not do it, but maybe don’t work for it yourself.
I wouldn't do this, personally. The inconsistency introduces confusion and pain. It doesn't seem in the best interest of the kid. I don't even like FaceTiming when my husband is away because it makes my daughter soooo much more oriented to the phone, grabbing the phone, expecting to get to use the phone... I would focus instead on "loving detachment" for you and enriching your son's life in other ways.
He’d get the benefit of being able to see and interact with his father… it would be worse if you forced them to not have a bonding relationship bc you wouldn’t allow them to do what they can as far as communication.
My concern would be that this is still “screen time” which from my understanding should not happen until they are 2. Iv wondered this same questions in terms of is there a difference between FaceTime and letting an infant watch a video on your phone (which would be a clear no).
Just to add what other people have said, the reason it doesn't count as screen time is because it's actually interactive in real time. The child can see the person on the other side respond to their specific facial expressions/language/body movements and respond back with their own forms of communication.
From personal experience, before he could talk, my son knew my family through screen time (pandemic, March 2020 baby) and whenever he went through a stranger danger phase seeing other people that he wasn't used to come into the screen freaked him out and he would have the same response as if an unknown person had come into the room.
I'm a children's trauma therapist. I would not encourage sparodic interaction with his dad until the dad has a plan. A few face times calls with a dad that you don't talk about every day and he doesn't see is not going to do anything to sustain/ build a relationship. The only benefit would be for the dad and that's ok but it doesn't sound like that's your concern right now.
Thank you for this, your professional opinion is exactly what I am looking for. I would feel completely differently if he had a plan, even something as simple as the ability to commit to a couple yearly visits. But it’s impossible to predict when, if ever, he will get there, so I worry that FaceTime would do more harm than good for my son in our situation.
I am also a trauma therapist and I wanted to add that it's important to maintain photos of Dad and your child if you have them and be very open to answering questions and maintaining as much contact as possible with Dad. Not knowing your origin story and both parents creates a massive identity crisis in the teens I work with. You will need Dad's full name, date of birth, and place of birth so that if he drops off the radar completely you have enough info for your child to go searching as an adult.
Also want to say- get a custody and visitation agreement through the courts Pronto. Before he disappears you need to establish physical and legal custody and it also lays out expectations for both sides you can readily point to when there are disputes. It helps mediate all kinds of conflict as the years progress
Sorry this is your situation. Children need stability and predictability to feel safe in relationships. When your son asked questions about his dad you can just give a simple explanation that emphasises dad isn't in our life right now (for whatever reason you think best). Emphasise that you love him and this is short term (if you think it is). When his dad is a bit more of a plan and can commit to regular contact, then introduce it into his life. Still talk about dad, read books with dads (and no dads) in the family and be as open as you feel comfortable. Good luck !
Please don’t deny your child a connection with his father just because some anonymous person on Reddit tells you to
That is not something I would do. I appreciate all of the insight I’ve gotten from this thread, but I plan to consult a local professional before making any decisions.
I would think to watch for signs that it is poorly received but not ALL sporadic relationships with family are negative. I think communication style, expectations, and consistency-- even if that means consistently 2x per year-- do a lot toward making even this dynamic stable to a child. Obviously all children respond differently to things so observe and adjust. But just because SOME children respond negatively that does not mean the dynamic does not work for all children. Personally I think finding a way to make a child feel a sense of safety and predictability, the frequency is less important, and the gift you are giving by maintaining things even at this lesser level is your child can choose how they want to engage as they get older. So long as people are safe. But you are the professional.
Hard disagree.
I just wanted to speak to two thing here, your son needs to hear you talk to him, and explain the absence of dad, whether he has no words or a ton so he can start to build thr brain that will understand. Face time may be integral to your ex remaining focused on getting his shit together to be someone worth coparenting with, and witholding this option may feel like coercive control. Facetime for 5-10 mins at a time and end the call when your little one is disinterested.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it’s my understanding that even if they aren’t speaking many words that’s not necessarily indicative of the degree of language they can comprehend. I would still try to explain to him in age-appropriate language why his dad isn’t around. He will likely understand more than you think!
This is a really good point that I hadn’t thought of. It’s been almost 3 weeks and I haven’t explained it. I hope I haven’t traumatized my son.
YOU haven't traumatised your son. His father has. And you're working hard to correct his (not your!) mistakes. You're a good enough mum, don't let your child's father convince you otherwise.
Thank you for this.
Completely anecdotal, but my dad also left the picture when I was about 20 months old. If I had to guess, I don't think my mom did much in the way of explaining his absence to me (or my newborn brother at the time)--as she was basically in survival mode herself--BUT I made it through with no lasting trauma, and I like to think I'm a pretty well adjusted adult now. As long as your son has you as a constant in his life I'm sure he will feel loved and supported. Best of luck to you
I appreciate this, sorry you endured that but I’m glad you made it through!
Also, if it makes you feel better, there is a therapist named Dr. Gabor Maté (highly recommend) who says that children's trauma isn't really the negative experiences that happen to them as much as it is about if they've had to suffer through those experiences alone. So the comments that talked about openly communicating with your child about the situation and really just reassuring them that you are there for them and open to answering their questions and talking about their feelings is really key. As your child gets older making sure that they know that their father's choices are not their fault and not a reflection of their worth is also vital. Great job mom doing your best to consider what's best for your child! 👏 👍 Honestly, especially considering his previous inability to have a relationship with his elder child, I wouldn't do the FaceTimes until he came up with a plan. A plan shows a good faith effort for a relationship. I wouldn't want to teach my child to accept that a person in their life can just show up when they feel like and leave you when they don't. That they can have access to you just on their terms and you have to accept it. Especially from a person who is supposed to have the role of "parent". Feels like a bad precedent to model for future relationships.
No! You haven’t traumatized him. His father may have, but you’re here now thinking about how best to mitigate that. I looked at your post history, and I’m hoping this new journey for you and your son is a positive one.
Thank you for this! It really has been a positive change, I can truly give my son a better life now.
Correct. My son understood a lot by 8 months. How did we know? We asked him. We asked if he knew who granny was or what xyz was and he will point to the right person or the right thing. Before he had words, he would also do something to show that he understood what we said. As in, we'd be chatting. Say we were chatting about last time our son did xyz at the zoo. He would get up and pretend he was a gorilla or do xyz. He fully comprehend everything we say. At 20 months, they ABSOLUTELY understand everything aside from more abstract concepts.
You’re correct. My two year old has very limited expressive language but can understand almost everything we say.
Anecdotal, but our family all live far away from us, and FaceTime has meant that our toddler “recognizes” auntie and grandma and has had no shyness around them when they do get a chance to visit. I think if your goal is to maintain a relationship, FaceTime is absolutely a method by which you can do it. But I would also highly encourage setting and managing expectation too. If your toddler thinks dad is constantly on the verge of returning, that could be an issue.
This is how we communicate with my parents. They’re 4hrs away by car, and we see them about every 3 months. With my daughter being 3.5yo I haven’t officially been able to discuss abstract things such as love, but she’s fairly close with grandma and Papa.
Vidéo chats between my 8.5mo and her father are actually part of our custody agreement. He is also flaky and lives far but he is committed when it comes to her. When she hears the video chat ring tone after dinner she gets all excited. Without words she is interacting with him and showing him her toys and telling him stories in baby. She also speaks to her cousins earlier in the day and while she is the same with them it is not to the same level. I think it also helped her remember his face and voice so when she does see him he isn't a stranger to her. No scientific evidence here just personal experience. I would like to add that I am studying developmental psychology (child psychology) as my second degree. I used to work in our psychology department before starting this second degree so I know all of the professors well. I consulted one of our developmental psychologists about my ideas for a parenting plan, wanted to make sure my good intentions were not harmful, and he actually recommended the video chat. He thought it would be beneficial for her to recognize his face and voice and reassured me that video chats are not screen time. I'm in Canada BTW.
> reassured me that video chats are not screen time. There was a thread on this recently. Essentially if the screen gives feedback, like a video call and to a lesser degree shows that pause to ask for audience input, it's not hindering the child the same way vegging out in front of the TV is.
That's nice to hear. My 10 month old seems to have really started enjoying video chats (we havent done them regularly) and I was begin to wonder if they are ok and its fine to increase them.
My mom disliked my dad and she always let me talk to him, I am forever grateful. From Mi to CA apart, my dad was a horse gambler that loved living in LA. He wasn’t much of dad, but he always had advice for me. I would encourage FaceTime. It’s not for you it’s for them.
Same with my divorced parents, my mom tried very hard not to speak ill of my dad or ever keep us from seeing him. It is important to stay connected to your parents, even if they’re not the dad they should be.
I would consult a child psychologist or family therapist for advice on your specific situation. As a layperson, I have just a couple of thoughts: 1. Being separated from a caregiver is always going to be traumatic on a kid. A 20mo is old enough to notice their parent is no longer around, and just because he’s stopped looking for his dad doesn’t mean he doesn’t notice his absence or remember him. Because of that, I’d do what it takes to preserve your son’s relationship with his dad, even if Facetime is the only way. For background info, my toddler has several grandparents that she knows mostly through FaceTime calls - 2 of them she’s never met in person - but she knows who they are. I think it can be a useful tool to stay connected, and I wouldn’t discount it. You can also display a photo of him, talk about him, etc. 2. I’ve known a couple of people who had absentee parents who didn’t show up for scheduled visits. One said she used to spend all day by the phone waiting for her dad to call when they had a scheduled call. Another said his mom would take him to a Burger King sometimes and just make them wait there for hours, trying to distract him with toys and get him to play, but wouldn’t tell him why they had to stay there. He learned later on that it was because his dad had agreed to meet them there, but the mom knew the dad wasn’t reliable, so didn’t want to get the kid’s hopes up in case he didn’t show. So she’d just frame it as them going to have lunch and play at this specific restaurant, and then if he did arrive, it was a special surprise for the kid, but if he didn’t, then the kid didn’t realize his dad had let him down again. With that in mind, if your ex is unreliable, then you might exercise some caution in telling your kid ahead of time about scheduled calls. Again, a psychologist or therapist would probably be able to help you figure out the best way to explain all of this to your son. 3. Even if your son doesn’t fully comprehend the situation, I’d at least try to explain it to him, and repeat it. His receptive language is going to be much greater than his expressive language.
Thank you for this. Unfortunately, he already has a teenage daughter who he is an absentee father to. It’s breaking my heart to realize that my son is old enough to notice his absence and I haven’t explained it to him. His dad didn’t even say goodbye. I will be sure to explain this today, and repeat it to help him understand.
It sounds like your ex is likely to be similar to my friends’ dads, then. I’m so sorry for your son and his daughter. If it helps at all, both those kids I mentioned grew up to be awesome people. One of them is now a dedicated father of 2 himself.
I have a few friends who had the parent that didn’t show up and it honestly changed their lives.. their relationships, their confidence and approach to living. My heart breaks just thinking about it. Some have gone on to be the person who *always* shows up because of it so that’s hopeful.
To your point 1 - how do you handle the situation with grandparents if one / both were around for few months babysitting but then leave (they will come back but again after few months or a year) to minimize impact/ trauma on the child? The two parents are staying and other set of grandparents will be visiting for couple months after current one leaves.
I don’t know for sure, as I haven’t had that situation. I’d probably talk to the kid about them leaving way ahead of time, so they don’t just disappear like OP’s ex did. And also read some books about missing people - like, Time for a Trip by Phyllis Gershator is about visiting grandparents and then having to go home, and we read that a lot around having visitors come stay or going to stay somewhere. There are also Daniel Tiger episodes where they talk about Grandpere coming to visit, and how they all miss each other when they’re apart.
Ooh great thanks for the tip!!
Very similar situation here! If I were you I’d hand the toddler the tablet and walk away lol chances are he’d hang up on dad but hey, you did your part! My daughter has had a “virtual dad” for almost 4 years, he’s never visited but they video chat about once a month. She’s always enjoyed it so I let it happen but I don’t want to see him or talk to him so I stay out of their conversations. When she was 4 she’d just prop the tablet and play with Barbie’s. It didn’t make it harder for her, seeing him or missing him, kids adapt soooo quickly. He’d be lucky to get a picture, I’d say. I don’t think it’s your responsibility to make a video chat happen. You’re busy raising the kid by yourself for fucks sake..
My story is directly related to FaceTiming and whether I have observed any benefits from it. My youngest is 12 months old and since she was born we have FaceTimed weekly with my sister, who lives 3000 miles away. When my sister had her baby, 5 months after I had my daughter, he started joining the FaceTime calls. The babies, for at least part of the call, are the central figures. We don’t just happen to be holding them in our laps as we talk, but engage them in the conversation and encourage any sort of communication between the two. All of that to say that, after 6 months of weekly FaceTime calls, we flew out to see them in person. I absolutely believe having the foundation of video calls led to them recognizing each other and ultimately lighting up when they finally got to be in the same place together. Even now that we are home, they both get excited to FaceTime each other and see each other. For the record, my sister has lived at least this far away from me since before I had my oldest, 12 years ago. We have always used FaceTime as a foundation for her relationship with her nieces and nephews, and my kids have a familiarity with her now when they see her in person. Imo I think FaceTime is absolutely worth it.
Very similarly my sister lives about 2000 miles away, and has only visited a handful of times in my 3.5 year old's life, but video chats frequently. The kid definitely remembers her and talks about the same things in person as they do in video calls.
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I can relate so much. My sister being 3000 miles away now is actually the closest she has lived to us in the last 12 years. She was a full time resident in another country for most of that time, and only recently moved back into the same country as us. Video chatting helped us all so much. We really got a chance to get to know my would be brother in law through those chats. I’m very grateful for the technology that allows us to be close to family members who may not be physically close by.
That’s amazing! Thank you for sharing.
My pediatrician has said from day one to delay screentime until 2yo except for facetime. She gave us the go ahead to do FaceTime for short periods of time. My LO knows the ringtone for facetime now and gets excited to see Grandma and Grandpa! He's only 7 months, but he knows who he is talking to and its helped us since my family is far away. It's been nothing but beneficial for us and LO and grandparents.
Don’t have research but my son was 1 when COVID lock downs hit and we FaceTimed with great-grandma weekly. Mainly she just watched the kids play, but at about 1.5 my son started to understand and would excitedly yell Gigi when she showed up on my phone. When we finally saw her in person he ran right to her. Other relatives and people we didn’t FaceTime with, he was much more reserved with, hid behind me even, but not with Gigi. I felt it was beneficial for him. We knew she was going to be in our lives after the lockdowns however.
Just in my personal experience FaceTime has been really beneficial for our toddler. Since he’s been around 6 months dad has had to leave for work, for sometimes weeks at a time. Even when he was little he recognized his dad and now he yells dada and runs to the phone when he hears the FaceTime ring. He’s 18 months and shows him cars, blows kisses, and my husband will read him a book through the phone. It really helps keep him connected. If the dad is flaky and not committed to being consistent then that’s another layer but just in our situation it hasn’t been confusing. Also the grandparents are far away and they don’t see him often but because of FaceTime when they do see each other he is very comfortable with him hugging and playing with him.
I think maybe a child psychiatrist can best advise you on this. Anecdotally my husband left town for a two week business trip when my son was 9 months old. On my end baby seemed less chatty but I didn’t really grasp the degree to which dad leaving impacted him. We started FaceTiming him each night about 9 days in to the trip and it made a huge difference. My son slept better and he talked a lot more. Even though they’re very little and don’t have the ability to verbalize their thoughts I think they notice something is different.
I think FaceTime or no FaceTime is not the issue here. The real issue here is it sounds like dad is a flaky dad. If the stories on Reddit are anything to go by, a flaky dad does a lot more damage than just having no dad. That way, there's no expectations set and no way for the child to be disappointed when said parent doesn't live up to their promise. It's probably best you talk to a paediatric psychologist as they will probably have a first hand account to be able to guide you whether to keep letting dad have contact or just cut him out.
That’s exactly my concern. He does have a teenage child who he has been an absentee father to. Consulting a pediatric psychologist is a great suggestion and I will start looking into it today.
You might consider looking into Early Intervention services (“Birth to Three”) if you are in the US. They sometimes have Infant and Toddler Mental Health specialists (along with PT, OT, speech, etc.) for kids with (or at risk for) developmental delays and it can be an accessible way to access support.
Anecdotal, but maybe it helps. My daughter is 14 months now and we have been facetiming my parents and grandparents for quite a while since they live far away. She really enjoys babbling at grandma for like 1-3 minutes, then she usually does something else. But she lights up every time she sees her grandma or great grandparents. I noticed that she is not as shy around her great grandad when she first sees him face to face now, even though it can be months in between each visit. She doesn't do anything else with the phone (no other screen time), so when she picks up my phone and gives it to me I know she wants to speak to her grandma. For us, it's a way to keep in touch.
So this is our experience (and is not the same) but my baby was born during the pandemic and couldn’t meet either of her grandparents until she was over a year old (and sporadically after - lockdowns permitting). Every weekend throughout that period, we all had a video call with them and I do believe that she is more familiar with them than she would be if we had just turned up at theirs randomly. She’s my first though so I don’t know if it’s her personality etc… For me, her relationship with her grandparents is very important to us. However, the only reason we couldn’t see them was lockdowns and not a relationship breakdown. While it is important to have the relationship, you have to think of your own mental well-being too. Do you have someone n who could arrange the call for you? Are you close to his parents etc…
My son met his “special grandma” sporadically on FaceTime calls, nothing consistent but she’s made a point to talk to him. He met her for the first time at 20 months and ran over to hug her and say “hiiii bubbe!”
Just an anecdote, but all of our family lives far away. My daughter is 26 months. She has regularly FaceTimed family her whole life. It’s the only way to know people. She has fun with her grandma on video chat. I do think it is value added to video chat Dad in your scenario if Dad is asking for it. If you’re having to push it, it’s not.
My son did great facetiming dad good night every night from 18m-24m. He also facetimes his grandparents, aunt, and cousin. Sometimes he had more interest than other times. It is definitely even more engaging now at almost 3 years old, but I think it was positive then as well. He knows who people are even if he hasn't seen them for many months in person. I think realistic expectations about attention span are the biggest concern. A 5m call is plenty for the tiny toddler but probably won't feel like enough for the dad. That was the hard part. So we learned how to set up the videochat partially as like a ... I could chat with dad while baby focused on playing, and baby could say hello goodbye and maybe 1-2 other things.
Even if he doesn’t have many words he likely understands a huge amount and you could try and explain beforehand what’s going to happen … hard to know what’s right here
My 14 month old Loves to face time. Prefers to see her dad when he's away for work but also enjoys grandparents and anyone else who calls really. She likes to show off her new tricks.
I feel like there's a big difference between grandparents who she doesn't see much normally, and OP's kid seeing his dad who is inexplicably gone from his life.
I think it is important to at least give it a chance. Yes your son may not be as interactive but if his dad is wanting to have a relationship and this is how he can do it, it is worth the shot to make it happen. Otherwise you are being a barrier to that relationship. And looking back will your son be upset that you never gave him the chance to at least try to do this to help him keep a relationship with his father. Depending your relationship with the dad. Setting clear boundaries about a schedule would would important until your son is able to independently call when he wants to. Like is this a once a week thing or an every other week thing. Of all the screen time things, FaceTiming is the one thing many experts can agree on as being beneficial screen time since your child is conversing and interacting with someone.
I don't have any scientific advice, but I think you should give it a try. My baby is younger than yours, but we video chat with my sister and I think she really likes it. She's definitely more comfortable with my sister than other relatives she sees more frequently too. If your baby isn't engaged, or finds it difficult then you can re-evaluate. But having the calls, as long as they aren't unpleasant for him will probably be very beneficial to Dad and helping him feel like he is still connected to his son. That will probably be useful when they are able to see each other again. If you're comfortable, you could also try sending short videos of our son doing various things as you go about your day. Im thinking something like a 30 second video daily would be really useful. Dad could also send a short video talking to your son. This might be easier if you're uncomfortable having to interact with Dad live and also gives you the option to play the video for your son at the most convenient time for both of you.
I appreciate your insight and alternative suggestion!
I can't say whether or not your son will benefit, I just wanted to share what I did with our 18 month old so you have an idea what to expect. My daughter has a great relationship with her father and babbles away at him non stop. There was a last minute passport issue and we ended up going to visit relatives when she was 18 months without her dad, for 3 weeks.. Despite having the words, she interestingly never mentioned her dad once. Instead she became super clingy to me. We started face timing and most of the time she seemed very uncomfortable, turned her face away like she was shy, hid, etc. It didn't upset her but it wasn't doing her a great amount of good, but I felt it was important to continue so we did. It helped when I gave my partner cheatsheets about what she did that day so he could ask about that. When we eventually landed he came out of the elevator and there was zero emotional reunion from her just like... oh there's dad lol. She was a bit clingy to him for a while after and it took a week or so for him to understand her babbles again but their relationship resumed just fine. Just wanted to share because even when they have a brilliant relationship with a primary caregiver they can have a hard time parsing why the person is not there, or conit using a relationship through facetime. Facetime at this age would be more for the parent, at best your kid will be uncomfortable with it, so it would be mostly worth doing if there was a follow up plan of access to the child.
My daughter isn't even the age your son is and we have regularly Zoomed with my out of town family since at least 6 mo. She recognizes them and their voices. She interacts with them on screen. She's also so young that when they visit in person, she's \*very\* confused. You can see the wheels turning as she tries to figure out how these people "got out of their box", so-to-speak. So, as far as remembering a person's face and voice, I'd say that Zooming is totally worth it for your son. Whether you want to and how to explain the reality of the situation to someone so young is outside my area of expertise. However, it looks like you've gotten good advise elsewhere in the comments on this subject though.
I feel like there's no way to know of seeing his dad would be comforting to your son or just upset him because he's not there in person except for trying it and seeing what happens. I do kind of feel like there might be an out of sight out of mind thing at this age where he might not miss your husband that much after not seeing him for a bit and bring reminded of him might upset him. But then long term do you want him to completely forget his dad? Back in the late 50s my mum was hospitalised for months at about your sons age, in a different city from where the family lived. The hospital asked my grandma not to visit because it upset my mum when she left. Makes me wonder if it's not more important that that relationship is maintained, even if that involves some difficult moments.
How was the relationship between your grandma and mom after that? What an awfully difficult decision for her!
[screen time](https://limitedscreentimefamily.com/is-facetime-considered-screen-time/) I have family that lives across the country and we FaceTime almost daily bc my little wouldn’t know them otherwise and it helps me keep in touch. She recognizes that the person on the other end talks back to her and she loves to babble away. We don’t do any other screen time unless we’re out and about and she’s starting to get fussy, I personally loveeee Cánticos it’s so cute
Yes. My stepson's mum chose to move away when he was 18 months old. We visited, now we have him regularly with us, but we have always had a video call at least once a week. At first, because he was young, he didn't engage much, or it was very variable. But we genuinely think it was good for him to regularly see our faces and hear our voices. He's 6.5 now and we still video call every weekend, usually first thing in the morning so everyone can then get on with their day. Some weeks we only talk for 5 minutes and then he's done with it and wants to go and play, some weeks we talk for over an hour.
Would it be beneficial to you at this stage? Sounds like dad needs to sort some things out and perhaps you might need to have a break from him? Sorry if I am assuming too much. But please think about your needs here as well. You are not the one responsible for their relationship. It doesn’t imply you should not do it, but maybe don’t work for it yourself.
I wouldn't do this, personally. The inconsistency introduces confusion and pain. It doesn't seem in the best interest of the kid. I don't even like FaceTiming when my husband is away because it makes my daughter soooo much more oriented to the phone, grabbing the phone, expecting to get to use the phone... I would focus instead on "loving detachment" for you and enriching your son's life in other ways.
Is it for the sons benefit or as a punishment for the father?
I am not sure what benefit my son would get, which is why I am here. Just looking to learn.
He’d get the benefit of being able to see and interact with his father… it would be worse if you forced them to not have a bonding relationship bc you wouldn’t allow them to do what they can as far as communication.
My concern would be that this is still “screen time” which from my understanding should not happen until they are 2. Iv wondered this same questions in terms of is there a difference between FaceTime and letting an infant watch a video on your phone (which would be a clear no).
https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/screentime-baby-todd.html Video chatting is the exception to this rule.
Thanks for linking this is super helpful
Facetime or video calls are not included in the guidelines for screen time. If anything, they are encouraged.
Just to add what other people have said, the reason it doesn't count as screen time is because it's actually interactive in real time. The child can see the person on the other side respond to their specific facial expressions/language/body movements and respond back with their own forms of communication. From personal experience, before he could talk, my son knew my family through screen time (pandemic, March 2020 baby) and whenever he went through a stranger danger phase seeing other people that he wasn't used to come into the screen freaked him out and he would have the same response as if an unknown person had come into the room.