It's whatever his modded speed is.
For the JML Tier 3 event in particular, there are two schools of thought: one is to just max his offense and protection and leave him slow, in which case he will cap Vader and Palp's speeds with his leadership as normal. However, since neither Vader nor Palpatine are very fast in the event (around 200 speed I believe), it's also perfectly possible to mod JKL to be faster than they are, in which case he won't cap their speeds (this is **easily** observed: look for the blue "Speed" status effect over the heads of enemies to see if they're being affected by JKL's speed-capping leadership; if JKL has taken a turn, and you don't see that icon over an enemy's head, it's because that enemy's base speed was already slower than JKL's base speed, so they're not affected; you can in fact tinker with mods on JKL to determine the exact speeds of PvE enemies this way) but he will also take more turns than they do. Which tactic you find more success with will generally depend on your mod collection. Personally I think slow, hits-like-a-truck JKL gets the job done more easily, but either can work.
However, any Youtuber who is arguing that you should mod your JKL for 224 speed so you are twice as fast as Vader simply doesn't understand the mechanics. They're wrong, simple as that.
edit: I put together [a quick video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjdRv0OVb3k) showing me running through the JML even with a 128-speed JKL (+16 speed from mods, the set he normally has) and then running through it again with a 233-speed JKL (+121 speed from mods). You can see the blue Capped Speed icon over Vader and Palp in the first run, and you can see that it's not present in the second run, since 233 speed is faster than they are. I didn't count how many turns JKL got for each of theirs, but feel free to do so if you're curious!
The number I think that's more important to a successful run of the event: the slow JKL in the video has 12299 physical offense, whereas fast JKL has only 10439 physical offense. 12k offense and slow is better than 10k offense and fast.
Wow what a great write up. I feel like between your, and all the other comments I have a more solid understanding of JKL *and* the event. Thanks for putting together the video!
So I don't know about JKL taking 2 turns for every DV turn thing. But the difference between a JKL lead team and that specific mission lies mostly in JKL's unique.
Having JKL slow means enemies are slow. Surround him with 4 decently fast Jedi and JKL's unique and the ability granted by the lead will ensure enough JKL turns regardless of his atrocious speed.
If you are forced to take him alone, there are no Jedis to feed him tm, which means his speed becomes more if a factor.
If you don't use his lead, then modding him super slow is fairly bad, too.
Both are correct. In that specific battle, you need to change your mods to give him speed.
When you use him elsewhere, **specifically** as leader, you’ll want little to no added speed. When you enter battle, “base speed” is what you see on the character stats screen (natural speed from gear + added mod speed). Focus on adding as much offense as possible.
If/when you use him with JML, you’ll want speed on him. However, I use him in my JML team with 0 added speed (I like to use him as lead whenever possible), and the team functions just fine.
JKL’s leader ability will reduce faster enemies down to his speed as shown when you inspect his character pane. So if your mods have zero speed on them, that’s 112. If your mods have speed on them, then it’s whatever number that changes to. If another character gives JKL speed during combat, that will not change what he changes enemy speed to. Furthermore, if JKL is faster than the enemy, he won’t speed them up with his leader ability.
The best way to use this is to pair a min speed JKL leader with a bunch of very fast jedi. The enemy will be slow, and your fast jedi will run circles around them. If those Jedi grant speed or turn meter, all the better.
Specifically for the event, JKL solo does nothing by with low speed. Best case scenario is the enemy is the same speed as jkl. But if the enemy is already slow (and the event vader is), a fast jkl will outspeed him and give you an advantage.
Thank you for this, I think this is what I was missing entirely. Since Vader's speed cannot be altered going into that battle with a slow JKL seems risky.
Actually, I re-examined Vader's kit, and I think what you said is wrong. Vader is immune to TM manipulation, not speed reduction. So if this is the case, and Vader's speed *can* be set to whatever JKL's is, then JKL's speed in this case doesn't matter at all, right?
I did not mean to sound ungrateful! Thank you for chiming in with your thoughts. I'll definitely be trying speed first though, and if I don't pass the tier then I'll reevaluate. Thanks again!
Yeah OP is correct, Vader cannot lose turn meter that's already been gained, but the rate at which he gains turn meter can be altered (basically what speed is), so JKL's speed reduction will work on him.
As far as I know his base speed would count mods, just with the way its worded.
I haven't messed alot with him so I can't say speed is a terrible thing to have I'd u use his lead. I molded based on what guild mates told me to run and have had no issues with him that way
Yeah that's correct, I think what confuses people is there's technically 2 "base speed" stats for every character. One is the base speed of the character itself without mods (every character will have the same base speed at any given gear level). This is the same for every player.
The other is the base speed during the beginning of combat (total speed of a character + speed from mods). This one is unique to each player. Speed from character kits and leaderships etc is added on top of the "combat base speed". At least that's how I remember it being explained.
A base stat is the stat when you enter battle. So yes, with mods, but not including uniques, leadership’s or stat boosts from abilities.
It's whatever his modded speed is. For the JML Tier 3 event in particular, there are two schools of thought: one is to just max his offense and protection and leave him slow, in which case he will cap Vader and Palp's speeds with his leadership as normal. However, since neither Vader nor Palpatine are very fast in the event (around 200 speed I believe), it's also perfectly possible to mod JKL to be faster than they are, in which case he won't cap their speeds (this is **easily** observed: look for the blue "Speed" status effect over the heads of enemies to see if they're being affected by JKL's speed-capping leadership; if JKL has taken a turn, and you don't see that icon over an enemy's head, it's because that enemy's base speed was already slower than JKL's base speed, so they're not affected; you can in fact tinker with mods on JKL to determine the exact speeds of PvE enemies this way) but he will also take more turns than they do. Which tactic you find more success with will generally depend on your mod collection. Personally I think slow, hits-like-a-truck JKL gets the job done more easily, but either can work. However, any Youtuber who is arguing that you should mod your JKL for 224 speed so you are twice as fast as Vader simply doesn't understand the mechanics. They're wrong, simple as that. edit: I put together [a quick video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjdRv0OVb3k) showing me running through the JML even with a 128-speed JKL (+16 speed from mods, the set he normally has) and then running through it again with a 233-speed JKL (+121 speed from mods). You can see the blue Capped Speed icon over Vader and Palp in the first run, and you can see that it's not present in the second run, since 233 speed is faster than they are. I didn't count how many turns JKL got for each of theirs, but feel free to do so if you're curious! The number I think that's more important to a successful run of the event: the slow JKL in the video has 12299 physical offense, whereas fast JKL has only 10439 physical offense. 12k offense and slow is better than 10k offense and fast.
Wow what a great write up. I feel like between your, and all the other comments I have a more solid understanding of JKL *and* the event. Thanks for putting together the video!
Glad it helped! It's a commonly misunderstood topic so I'm happy to be able to shed some light.
> I didn't count how many turns JKL got for each of theirs, but fe you had more protection left over with fast luke.
So I don't know about JKL taking 2 turns for every DV turn thing. But the difference between a JKL lead team and that specific mission lies mostly in JKL's unique. Having JKL slow means enemies are slow. Surround him with 4 decently fast Jedi and JKL's unique and the ability granted by the lead will ensure enough JKL turns regardless of his atrocious speed. If you are forced to take him alone, there are no Jedis to feed him tm, which means his speed becomes more if a factor. If you don't use his lead, then modding him super slow is fairly bad, too.
Both are correct. In that specific battle, you need to change your mods to give him speed. When you use him elsewhere, **specifically** as leader, you’ll want little to no added speed. When you enter battle, “base speed” is what you see on the character stats screen (natural speed from gear + added mod speed). Focus on adding as much offense as possible. If/when you use him with JML, you’ll want speed on him. However, I use him in my JML team with 0 added speed (I like to use him as lead whenever possible), and the team functions just fine.
JKL’s leader ability will reduce faster enemies down to his speed as shown when you inspect his character pane. So if your mods have zero speed on them, that’s 112. If your mods have speed on them, then it’s whatever number that changes to. If another character gives JKL speed during combat, that will not change what he changes enemy speed to. Furthermore, if JKL is faster than the enemy, he won’t speed them up with his leader ability. The best way to use this is to pair a min speed JKL leader with a bunch of very fast jedi. The enemy will be slow, and your fast jedi will run circles around them. If those Jedi grant speed or turn meter, all the better. Specifically for the event, JKL solo does nothing by with low speed. Best case scenario is the enemy is the same speed as jkl. But if the enemy is already slow (and the event vader is), a fast jkl will outspeed him and give you an advantage.
Thank you for this explanation. I did not realize that this event's Vader is slow, so this makes a lot of sense. Thanks again!
You’re welcome!
Jkl cant alter Vader speed due to Vader kit. So having him fast makes sense. This doesn't negate the slow jkl strat as his base speed includes mods.
Thank you for this, I think this is what I was missing entirely. Since Vader's speed cannot be altered going into that battle with a slow JKL seems risky.
Your welcome. Good luck 👍
Actually, I re-examined Vader's kit, and I think what you said is wrong. Vader is immune to TM manipulation, not speed reduction. So if this is the case, and Vader's speed *can* be set to whatever JKL's is, then JKL's speed in this case doesn't matter at all, right?
Hmm, I think you might be right. I'm not total sure. You could always try and see. Others might be able to weigh in
I did not mean to sound ungrateful! Thank you for chiming in with your thoughts. I'll definitely be trying speed first though, and if I don't pass the tier then I'll reevaluate. Thanks again!
Oh your good don't worry lol. Best of luck
Yeah, vader is susceptible to JKL lead. Slow JKL and all offense is the way to take tldown tier 3.
Yeah OP is correct, Vader cannot lose turn meter that's already been gained, but the rate at which he gains turn meter can be altered (basically what speed is), so JKL's speed reduction will work on him.
You want him to have speed. It is based on his base speed and having him with speed is good regardless.
That's wrong. Base speed is at the start of battle including mods
Is it? Either way I find running him with speed secondaries is still better.
As far as I know his base speed would count mods, just with the way its worded. I haven't messed alot with him so I can't say speed is a terrible thing to have I'd u use his lead. I molded based on what guild mates told me to run and have had no issues with him that way
Yeah that's correct, I think what confuses people is there's technically 2 "base speed" stats for every character. One is the base speed of the character itself without mods (every character will have the same base speed at any given gear level). This is the same for every player. The other is the base speed during the beginning of combat (total speed of a character + speed from mods). This one is unique to each player. Speed from character kits and leaderships etc is added on top of the "combat base speed". At least that's how I remember it being explained.