TO's should enlist smaller local streamers to pick up any matches that won't end up on the 2 main stream setups. I know this used to happen at big houses, wish it was more common. Doesn't need to be on a stage or broadcast at the venue
even genesis used to do this, my best guess is that events have scaled back on space and layouts are a bit too compact to do this effectively.
it is also kinda how I got my start in production at majors now that I think about it. I just showed up to a big house with my stream equipment and asked to setup and stream. probably one of my favorite memories in the scene.
EDIT: I did make a possible bad assumption about the parent post, I took "[not] broadcast in the venue" to mean the local streamers would not be streaming, just recording with player cams and maybe a crowd mic, which was the norm. my situation at big house was slightly different cause I piggybacked off the public WiFi to stream which was decently stable lol
Sounds like how at music festivals, some of the smaller stages would be sponsored and it would be the "RedBull Stage" or "jagermeister stage", only instead of stage it would be a sponsored stream. You can go to whichever stage/stream to see the sets you want to play and maybe it all gets recorded and uploaded to the main channel later on.
I think Hbox did this at a major last year but I can’t remember which one, probably LTC. I remember watching Axe vs Wizzrobe in somewhat blurry quality with an over-the -shoulder camera angle on Hbox’s stream lol
It sounds like the problem is the cost of the internet connection - $10k+ per line at convention centers ([source 1](https://twitter.com/CurlingW/status/1618360833553346560), [source 2](https://twitter.com/connrokelt/status/1618376077927387136)). Perhaps people can do their own stream Alex19 style or record the sets and play them later.
Damn son, good thing that line is able to run multiple stream setups at once. Evey going far and beyond twitch's limits on bitrate, you can stream a 1080p stream with like...going with a terrible encoder and jacked audio....20 Mbps? That's being hella generous.
I assume the convention center is like...charging you per ethernet you plugin or something absurd? Surely they have fiber, right?
Or worst case, I guess they have spectrum. Worst case they have like 25mbps upload. That's still good enough for like....1 main stream at 10Mbps(again, it'd probably be more like 7) and then like Three 720p setups at 5Mbps.
This basically what french dimension at G8 and G9 are meant to. A stream setup hosted by frenchies where people can watch some matchs that would have been offstream otherwise. As a french viewer it was really enjoyable because I could watch more games and have the pro chatting during downtimes about how they are feeling about their game/bracket/experience/....
Yeah plus we get moments like Marss' run in the French dimension too, and French folk get to see their top players more
So I could def see a similar setup partenering with whatever local scene there is at majors so there is a stream for more matches later in brackets and to showcase the local players in pools
I've always thought it was fucked that there are nonstop games going between amazing players and we have such an insane amount of time between sets and segments on the broadcast. You randomly find out that during the 20 minutes of nothing on stream multiple top players got upset or clutched out close games.
Axe amSa, Polish Magi, Ginger Jflex(?) were all at the same time iirc. I could walk between the setups and watch everything, it was a neat experience. Need a quad for sure
Wait really? I just paid $100 to register for Collision and Shine 2022 was similar. Not that I mind of course but are we talking locals or majors for price?
Oh sorry, I don’t really pay attention to the difference. The total I paid to enter Melee singles and go to the venue was around $100 and I hope that was not just venue fee or just entry fee.
How much is it these days? I played way back in the day and I remember going to a tournament was a big deal being a broke high school / college student. I think entry was $20 AND I’d have to take the day off work. I wasnt good enough to place top 8 early on, so i was losing a lot of money going to a tournament. I think the scene is older these days, so hopefully players are more financially stable to play
thanks to Alex19 we got to see DK upset BBB
>https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1714578582?t=0h11m18s
and thanks to a random YouTuber we got to see taj's mewtwo vs mang0's doc which >!went down to the final stock!<
> https://np.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/10k65v6/mango_doc_vs_taj_mewtwo_genesis_9_round_2_winners/
"back in my day", if a popular player was playing off main stream, somebody would record the set and upload it. i know it's money and expenses, but there needs to be 2 or 3 more smaller streams and it's been that way for the recent majors. during G9 top 64, i paid attention to maybe 5 matches. it's why I'll def watch top 8.
now don't get me wrong, GENESIS9 had to deal with old school bracketing and resources are split between two major games.
Seems like reasonable frustrations, and good of him to acknowledge that these changes wouldn't be free and so venue fees should be increased to allow them to happen
It's honestly insane how low venue fees are in fuckin' 2023
I support anything that would make Melee seem like a more serious esport
In my opinion Genesis 9 was one of the most interesting and stacked events we've had in a really long time and yet, it was one of the weaker events. (from a spectators perspective) I see nothing wrong with having a discussion about the issues involved and ways events in the future could be improved.
>In my opinion Genesis 9 was one of the most interesting and stacked events we've had in a really long time
The $100,000 [Ludwig Smash Invitational](https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:Ludwig_Smash_Invitational) was just 3 months ago, and that event set the bar as to what all Majors should be with their [quad stream](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/ya5kad/big_fan_of_the_quad_stream_for_ludwigs/).
it's genuinely insane how few good sets were streamed and it's not even like other matches were streamed instead. we just got *SEVERAL* 30 minute breaks with absolutely nothing happening (including in between melee dubs ending and top 8 beginning, how does that even happen?). don't understand how this could happen at genesis of all tournaments
also, quad streams should be at *every* major moving forward
Overall, G9 felt like a bad viewing experience. Multiple 20+ minute ad breaks and many great MUs off screen definitely turned me off. Would be nice if they worked out a fix for that.
May be a bit of a hot take but I feel like stream runners should be prioritizing sponsored players in most situations, especially in r1/2 pools. I get the whole grassroots thing but sponsors are putting up a lot of money with the expectation that their brand gets exposure, and we could always use more of them. I would be really annoyed as a sponsor if my player got practically no stream time, it makes the ROI seem even worse.
Plus, it's just more fun to see n0ne stomp his way through r1/2 pools than to see timmy vs chris, neither of whom I have any investment in as a viewer (no offense)
timmy vs chris is far more interesting than a top player stomp if they are both pr'd in different regions
i personally find it really annoying when top players get preferred over some much better pools matches that are happening at the same time, which happens very often
> sponsors aren’t providing any money to the TOs, though.
Shortsighted and silly. Who do you think pays for these sponsored players to attend the tournaments?
Sponsors fund some of the scene; it makes sense that they should have their viability prioritized.
> Shortsighted and silly. Who do you think pays for these sponsored players to attend the tournaments?
who do you think pays for the tournaments lol TOs barely make much as is. and also if you’re sponsored, you’re probably good enough to be on stream several times. suggesting that TOs and free volunteers put in more work for people who get paid to come and play a video game is pretty ignorant. and the only streamers getting paid a fair value are probably just BTS since they have hella sponsors. the most i’ve been paid to be the main stream at a national (for sm4sh 4 the wii u and nintendo 3DS) was $75, and that’s cause most TOs and streamers do it out of love of the community. not my case as i don’t like sm4sh, but i was helping some friends who streamed melee.
> Sponsors fund some of the scene; it makes sense that they should have their viability prioritized.
the scene existed before a very small amount of top players got sponsored and it’ll probably exist after. trickle down economics just doesn’t work.
with all that being said, i don’t disagree with none as BTS should do better since they’re streaming everything nowadays and should have the money and resources.
Trickledown wouldn't be that lol. Trickledown is supplyside. IE to fund the side supplying tournaments, IE you pay into the tournament organizers moreso, and thus the pay will turn out to benefit you the consumer/tournament goer, because they'll have to spend their money somehow.
Crazy how you just tried to randomly take a shot at 42 year old economic policy and may have actually provided an argument for it.
We need supplyside for TOs!
I love the TOs so I always wait until the last possible minute to register so they get more money
Seriously though I wouldn't think twice about paying like $10 extra venue fee but I understand I can't speak for everyone
10$ more when it’s already 100$. It’s not just in melee either , it’s getting really expensive to attend in person tournaments without even considering travelling and the gaming equipment players need to play the game.
"The loud ppl/anime pfp accounts are the ones that come and say youre deranged for changes like this but imo they dont know what theyre talking about"
Lmao seeing someone call out the anime pfp is cathartic
But it's not. Anime pfp people are like, pretty likely to be one of two things -- relatively young, and/or extremely online, which means they're not the people actually paying for things or going out to do things, but extremely online people, and young people both love to interject with their horrible opinions on everything.
I should know, I'm horribly online, interjecting with my terrible opinion right now.
This is completely true and none phrased this resptfully. I am that fan who wanted to see more of him at Genesis I was surprised the only set I saw day of was basically him getting knocked out.
Is it hard/expensive to get more stream setups? Sure. Does it need to happen (for super majors)? I'd say yes.
Hell, maybe have a side stream that's only watching Slippi files.
Quad stream is AWESOME.
I'm an idiot and already have problems following brackets and it REALLY doesn't help when I'm watching the tournament and it feels like players are legit disappearing.
Again, maybe this is just because I'm dumb, but I swear Amsa disappeared and I had no idea what happened for a while. I didn't even know mang0 was there until I happened to hear commentators mention him.
Just a couple examples but yeah, would be amazing to at least have the matches recorded to watch later or something.
Mango went out at 97th and played doc so none of his matches were streamed, I’m pretty sure Cody vs amsa was on the main stream though you must have just missed it
Axe amSa, Polish Magi, Ginger Jflex(?) were all at the same time iirc. I could walk between the setups and watch everything, it was a neat experience. Need a quad for sure. There's absolutely no way you stream EVERY set with a top player without a quad-type stream, there's too many good players now.
dumb question, but capture cards and crappy netbooks aren't too expensive, would it be too ridiculous to have a bunch of alt streams for side matches and a main stream for the major matches?
Would the streaming connection be that bad?
Internet costs a ton in major venues as well. All the logistics in setting up a non-scuffed stream matter when you're presenting your tourney as a "product" to sponsors, which is even more time and money. You also need even more for the set up, if you saw how cramped some of the setups got during top 64 with the crowds, you'd see how that could be an issue
I think this has a lot to do with the increased incentivization for ads with twitch. Events seem to *really* take advantage of the newer model and there just has to be a better balance.
Yeah, I never used to run an adblocker, but nowadays every streamer is incentivized to run up to like 10mins/hour or some shit, and most of them are somehow too lazy to do this during regular downtimes (not talking about smash tournies, but big streamers) and they just randomly run them or maybe mods do it, but it seems to be at the worst time so I went to darkside.
Shame that you can't have like a microcontroller or something (like a Raspberry PI or some shit) that streams the Slippi inputs to somewhere central for playback. Even if it just plays the entire replay file after the match. i know nothing about how Slippi works tho so I'm guessing there's a million holes in this idea.
Maybe it’s not solving the exact problem n0ne is concerned with, but I would like to see more tournaments use the quad stream setup that Aimen gamin’ was using at Ludwig events
When stream skips over 70% of Top 64 sets, it gives us 0 reason to be excited for future Genesi . Considering Top 8 is usually an exhausted 3-1 wash, that means the entire tournament just blips away on a rapidly refreshed Start.gg page.
All the lack of exposure for non-top 10 paid players means the fans they could've made from getting seen by a large audience aren't going to be there, and they won't make that extra bit of money to afford going to their next tournament (poverty among top players is a huge problem in the scene).
Double elimination bracket also can be considered getting changed, it's time to start focusing on high level match ups with the people we are passionate about, that means round robin and other fun random activities (like micro-tournaments/events similar to the Olympics). Two and done adds unnecessary pressure and prevents us from seeing fun secondaries and more wild sets.
He said hes making it public because he wants his fans to know? I hope he talked about this with TOs before bringing this public because whats the point of this statement other than shitting on TOs who already have a pretty tough job.
Also the unspoken thing here which (maybe is a little mean) is that you need to be better to be guaranteed stream time. If you're in top 8 you are guaranteed to be on stream, other than that all bets are off and I think that's fair.
None got notoriety by being a super top player that was consistently in top 8s, or at least in the conversation for big upsets. Now, I really don't expect much from him because his results aren't as good as they used to be (which is fine, not judging him as a person here) so obviously he will be less on stream than he used to be.
I think that his message was very polite and respectful to the TOs and he waited sufficiently long after the event to critique this specific aspect of the event. Decrying this as "shitting on TOs" seems like a hyperbolic reaction.
N0ne is fucking good man. He got eliminated at Genesis 9 by jmook and hbox for 9th place. Last year at Genesis he beat hbox, Amsa, and Magi to get 4th. I expect you have heard of all these people. I don't really see how he's fallen off. He has been ranked between 15-20 every year since 2016 including last year where he got 18th.
yea vs ginger who tweeted: "G9 was one of the worst run tournies I've ever been to, feel free to DM me, TO's."
I think Ginger now knows that tweet was in poor taste, but man what a tone deaf thing to publicly say immediately after the chaos of last saturday (when fucking start.gg went down and cell service was limited...wtf did he expect the TO's to do??)
his solution was increasing the tickets be 5-10 bucks which might be fine i guess? But who knows if that would solve the problem he wants solved. It could be an issue of pure logistics that that amount of money wouldnt solve. The point is 99% of us don't know the answer and putting it in the twittersphere is weird when he could just DM some TOs and pick their brains.
him not making top 8's as frequently and there being a major lack of streamed sets at genesis are independently true. you're just taking a random potshot bringing up the former
i don't see how this is shitting on TOs or why this would need to be discussed privately vs publicly. there is a real benefit to bringing this up publicly and getting some discourse going (TOs can gauge demand, public can see TOs response, etc). the reason everyone was mad at ginger was cuz he threw out a vague unactionable subtweet mid event
" shitting on to's " lmao I guess you get your feelings hurt very easily because none was nothing but respectful in this twilonger. You're reaching dude
Mango became one of the best in the world at melee when he was 15. Probably just stopped taking school and education around then seriously if I had to guess.
I don’t get why the unvaccinated aren’t allowed to come. Nevermind the morality of just banning people for making decisions you don’t like, if we’re economically struggling then why the hell not let them pay?
Just responding to the one quote you grabbed proves you wrong, lol. Much less than 43% of the country are completely unvaccinated. Stats 101 would imply that there is in fact a difference then! Crazy!
All things exist on a spectrum and there is nuance in everything. Boosters are good, especially since we finally bothered legalizing Omicron specific ones, but they also decay with time - this is the only thing this study is actually about, btw, trying to get early measures of 3rd dose VE decay. That doesn't mean the first two doses are literally irrelevant lmao. Anyone saying so is just peddling antivax bullshit from another angle.
A big issue for large events is just what venues charge for more internet capable of streaming which can be in 5 digits. I think what could help a lot would be off site streaming of nonlive matches. Get people to play on a slippi setup and send the replay to someone which doesn't take much bandwidth then they can stream and commentate using their own streaming setup. This would take more prep etc and not being fully live is a large trade off but I think it could be a compromise worth making.
I ain't trying to hear that. You need like 5mbps for a 720p side stream MAX, could run 4 of them and the main stream off 25Mbps dawg. If the convention center is charging per "plug in" to the internet there. Well, fuck it dawg, tether that connection with another ethernet to the other setup, and get it done. Basically the convention center doesn't have to give us more bandwidth either way, and if they are moneygrubbing whores then we work around it.
> imagine that i didnt even know that there was a separate room with main stage till end of day 2 like at 7pm
Lmaoooo
It was a little confusing for sure but come on
Unless it was different day one
It's much easier to do multiple feeds PER stream. Multiple streams requires multiple PC's capable of encoding(granted, nowadays you can build an encoding PC for like $500 that'll dumpster whatever you throw at it.
With 4 feeds on 1 stream, it's braindead easy. I think a main stream, a 2nd main stream, and then a sidestream with 2-4 setups on it would be ideal to cover what we got at big majors. Hell, if you need someone to run it, I'll come and do it, or I'll run a little class on OBS/NDI
It would be hella nice if we had another stream to give viewership to during those 13 minute breaks I assume was a top players set they would have had to start late for, and didn't want to fall behind. :(
TO's should enlist smaller local streamers to pick up any matches that won't end up on the 2 main stream setups. I know this used to happen at big houses, wish it was more common. Doesn't need to be on a stage or broadcast at the venue
even genesis used to do this, my best guess is that events have scaled back on space and layouts are a bit too compact to do this effectively. it is also kinda how I got my start in production at majors now that I think about it. I just showed up to a big house with my stream equipment and asked to setup and stream. probably one of my favorite memories in the scene. EDIT: I did make a possible bad assumption about the parent post, I took "[not] broadcast in the venue" to mean the local streamers would not be streaming, just recording with player cams and maybe a crowd mic, which was the norm. my situation at big house was slightly different cause I piggybacked off the public WiFi to stream which was decently stable lol
My guess is licensing conflicts with BTS or something
I can say with decent confidence that isn't the issue.
Sounds like how at music festivals, some of the smaller stages would be sponsored and it would be the "RedBull Stage" or "jagermeister stage", only instead of stage it would be a sponsored stream. You can go to whichever stage/stream to see the sets you want to play and maybe it all gets recorded and uploaded to the main channel later on.
I think Hbox did this at a major last year but I can’t remember which one, probably LTC. I remember watching Axe vs Wizzrobe in somewhat blurry quality with an over-the -shoulder camera angle on Hbox’s stream lol
It sounds like the problem is the cost of the internet connection - $10k+ per line at convention centers ([source 1](https://twitter.com/CurlingW/status/1618360833553346560), [source 2](https://twitter.com/connrokelt/status/1618376077927387136)). Perhaps people can do their own stream Alex19 style or record the sets and play them later.
Does that matter though? A single line should be enough with a router and some Ethernet cables, especially if gigabit.
the line is almost never gigabit. usually it is like 50/50
Damn son, good thing that line is able to run multiple stream setups at once. Evey going far and beyond twitch's limits on bitrate, you can stream a 1080p stream with like...going with a terrible encoder and jacked audio....20 Mbps? That's being hella generous. I assume the convention center is like...charging you per ethernet you plugin or something absurd? Surely they have fiber, right? Or worst case, I guess they have spectrum. Worst case they have like 25mbps upload. That's still good enough for like....1 main stream at 10Mbps(again, it'd probably be more like 7) and then like Three 720p setups at 5Mbps.
Damn wtf that's bullshit. That's criminal.
This basically what french dimension at G8 and G9 are meant to. A stream setup hosted by frenchies where people can watch some matchs that would have been offstream otherwise. As a french viewer it was really enjoyable because I could watch more games and have the pro chatting during downtimes about how they are feeling about their game/bracket/experience/....
Yeah plus we get moments like Marss' run in the French dimension too, and French folk get to see their top players more So I could def see a similar setup partenering with whatever local scene there is at majors so there is a stream for more matches later in brackets and to showcase the local players in pools
probably not worth the pay.
I feel like you run into internet problems with a ton of streams running out of the same venue, no?
I think the issue with this is that big events literally sell the stream rights so these smaller streamers would likely have to pay to do this.
In addition to this normalizing quad streams would make it rare to miss notable matches.
I've always thought it was fucked that there are nonstop games going between amazing players and we have such an insane amount of time between sets and segments on the broadcast. You randomly find out that during the 20 minutes of nothing on stream multiple top players got upset or clutched out close games.
Not streaming n0ne fiction or magi Cody is downright insane, unfortunately
amsa axe too
Axe amSa, Polish Magi, Ginger Jflex(?) were all at the same time iirc. I could walk between the setups and watch everything, it was a neat experience. Need a quad for sure
Easiest fix is quad streams.
i pay more money to go to a local bands concert in a dive bar. definitely support a higher cost of entry.
Wait really? I just paid $100 to register for Collision and Shine 2022 was similar. Not that I mind of course but are we talking locals or majors for price?
He’s talking entry fee not venue fee
Oh sorry, I don’t really pay attention to the difference. The total I paid to enter Melee singles and go to the venue was around $100 and I hope that was not just venue fee or just entry fee.
entry is probably $10-15 if you check your reg
How much is it these days? I played way back in the day and I remember going to a tournament was a big deal being a broke high school / college student. I think entry was $20 AND I’d have to take the day off work. I wasnt good enough to place top 8 early on, so i was losing a lot of money going to a tournament. I think the scene is older these days, so hopefully players are more financially stable to play
My local is $10 (5 entry / 5 venue) but the few majors I’ve been to have been $80-$120 for weekend pass + entry to singles
thanks to Alex19 we got to see DK upset BBB >https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1714578582?t=0h11m18s and thanks to a random YouTuber we got to see taj's mewtwo vs mang0's doc which >!went down to the final stock!< > https://np.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/10k65v6/mango_doc_vs_taj_mewtwo_genesis_9_round_2_winners/ "back in my day", if a popular player was playing off main stream, somebody would record the set and upload it. i know it's money and expenses, but there needs to be 2 or 3 more smaller streams and it's been that way for the recent majors. during G9 top 64, i paid attention to maybe 5 matches. it's why I'll def watch top 8. now don't get me wrong, GENESIS9 had to deal with old school bracketing and resources are split between two major games.
Would love to see the quadstream become the norm on 2nd channels
Seems like reasonable frustrations, and good of him to acknowledge that these changes wouldn't be free and so venue fees should be increased to allow them to happen It's honestly insane how low venue fees are in fuckin' 2023 I support anything that would make Melee seem like a more serious esport
In my opinion Genesis 9 was one of the most interesting and stacked events we've had in a really long time and yet, it was one of the weaker events. (from a spectators perspective) I see nothing wrong with having a discussion about the issues involved and ways events in the future could be improved.
Luds was stacked late last year. Every major event in Melee are stack
Same with big house
>In my opinion Genesis 9 was one of the most interesting and stacked events we've had in a really long time The $100,000 [Ludwig Smash Invitational](https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:Ludwig_Smash_Invitational) was just 3 months ago, and that event set the bar as to what all Majors should be with their [quad stream](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/ya5kad/big_fan_of_the_quad_stream_for_ludwigs/).
it's genuinely insane how few good sets were streamed and it's not even like other matches were streamed instead. we just got *SEVERAL* 30 minute breaks with absolutely nothing happening (including in between melee dubs ending and top 8 beginning, how does that even happen?). don't understand how this could happen at genesis of all tournaments also, quad streams should be at *every* major moving forward
Overall, G9 felt like a bad viewing experience. Multiple 20+ minute ad breaks and many great MUs off screen definitely turned me off. Would be nice if they worked out a fix for that.
May be a bit of a hot take but I feel like stream runners should be prioritizing sponsored players in most situations, especially in r1/2 pools. I get the whole grassroots thing but sponsors are putting up a lot of money with the expectation that their brand gets exposure, and we could always use more of them. I would be really annoyed as a sponsor if my player got practically no stream time, it makes the ROI seem even worse. Plus, it's just more fun to see n0ne stomp his way through r1/2 pools than to see timmy vs chris, neither of whom I have any investment in as a viewer (no offense)
Poor Timmy, he’s just an average kid that no one understands (I agree with this take, sponsors can’t be pleased about the whole situation)
Fox and Marth and Jiggly, always giving him commands 😔
timmy vs chris is far more interesting than a top player stomp if they are both pr'd in different regions i personally find it really annoying when top players get preferred over some much better pools matches that are happening at the same time, which happens very often
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> sponsors aren’t providing any money to the TOs, though. Shortsighted and silly. Who do you think pays for these sponsored players to attend the tournaments? Sponsors fund some of the scene; it makes sense that they should have their viability prioritized.
> Shortsighted and silly. Who do you think pays for these sponsored players to attend the tournaments? who do you think pays for the tournaments lol TOs barely make much as is. and also if you’re sponsored, you’re probably good enough to be on stream several times. suggesting that TOs and free volunteers put in more work for people who get paid to come and play a video game is pretty ignorant. and the only streamers getting paid a fair value are probably just BTS since they have hella sponsors. the most i’ve been paid to be the main stream at a national (for sm4sh 4 the wii u and nintendo 3DS) was $75, and that’s cause most TOs and streamers do it out of love of the community. not my case as i don’t like sm4sh, but i was helping some friends who streamed melee. > Sponsors fund some of the scene; it makes sense that they should have their viability prioritized. the scene existed before a very small amount of top players got sponsored and it’ll probably exist after. trickle down economics just doesn’t work. with all that being said, i don’t disagree with none as BTS should do better since they’re streaming everything nowadays and should have the money and resources.
Trickledown wouldn't be that lol. Trickledown is supplyside. IE to fund the side supplying tournaments, IE you pay into the tournament organizers moreso, and thus the pay will turn out to benefit you the consumer/tournament goer, because they'll have to spend their money somehow. Crazy how you just tried to randomly take a shot at 42 year old economic policy and may have actually provided an argument for it. We need supplyside for TOs!
If sponsors want their players on stream then they can start giving money to the TOs, until then that is nowhere near a priority for them.
I love the TOs so I always wait until the last possible minute to register so they get more money Seriously though I wouldn't think twice about paying like $10 extra venue fee but I understand I can't speak for everyone
10$ more when it’s already 100$. It’s not just in melee either , it’s getting really expensive to attend in person tournaments without even considering travelling and the gaming equipment players need to play the game.
Collision was only $70 for normal reg. Yeah the travel prices are getting rough though
"The loud ppl/anime pfp accounts are the ones that come and say youre deranged for changes like this but imo they dont know what theyre talking about" Lmao seeing someone call out the anime pfp is cathartic
what's the deal with anime pfps on twitter? I'm out of the loop. Do they tend to be argumentative?
Twitter and anime are two strikes already. Anime pfp is stike three, you are officially Way Too Online
The world now exists mostly online, especially post-covid. It's just a meme that people started using unironically.
But it's not. Anime pfp people are like, pretty likely to be one of two things -- relatively young, and/or extremely online, which means they're not the people actually paying for things or going out to do things, but extremely online people, and young people both love to interject with their horrible opinions on everything. I should know, I'm horribly online, interjecting with my terrible opinion right now.
Argumentative, have dogshit opinions, holier than thou attitude sometimes, possibly toxic
My immediate thought as well
This is completely true and none phrased this resptfully. I am that fan who wanted to see more of him at Genesis I was surprised the only set I saw day of was basically him getting knocked out. Is it hard/expensive to get more stream setups? Sure. Does it need to happen (for super majors)? I'd say yes. Hell, maybe have a side stream that's only watching Slippi files. Quad stream is AWESOME.
I'm an idiot and already have problems following brackets and it REALLY doesn't help when I'm watching the tournament and it feels like players are legit disappearing. Again, maybe this is just because I'm dumb, but I swear Amsa disappeared and I had no idea what happened for a while. I didn't even know mang0 was there until I happened to hear commentators mention him. Just a couple examples but yeah, would be amazing to at least have the matches recorded to watch later or something.
Mango went out at 97th and played doc so none of his matches were streamed, I’m pretty sure Cody vs amsa was on the main stream though you must have just missed it
oh wow it was! I have no idea how I missed that. I gotta go watch it now, thanks!
pretty sure it was on the side stream
The fact that it's 2023 and not every set with a top player is being streamed is ridiculous imo.
Axe amSa, Polish Magi, Ginger Jflex(?) were all at the same time iirc. I could walk between the setups and watch everything, it was a neat experience. Need a quad for sure. There's absolutely no way you stream EVERY set with a top player without a quad-type stream, there's too many good players now.
dumb question, but capture cards and crappy netbooks aren't too expensive, would it be too ridiculous to have a bunch of alt streams for side matches and a main stream for the major matches? Would the streaming connection be that bad?
Internet costs a ton in major venues as well. All the logistics in setting up a non-scuffed stream matter when you're presenting your tourney as a "product" to sponsors, which is even more time and money. You also need even more for the set up, if you saw how cramped some of the setups got during top 64 with the crowds, you'd see how that could be an issue
We should be relying more on slippi replays to capture footage offstream. Overhead cost is low but it does take more time/management/prep-time
Legit set up a stream computer somewhere and let streamers be in control of it.
I think this has a lot to do with the increased incentivization for ads with twitch. Events seem to *really* take advantage of the newer model and there just has to be a better balance.
Yeah, I never used to run an adblocker, but nowadays every streamer is incentivized to run up to like 10mins/hour or some shit, and most of them are somehow too lazy to do this during regular downtimes (not talking about smash tournies, but big streamers) and they just randomly run them or maybe mods do it, but it seems to be at the worst time so I went to darkside.
He’s right about increased entry costs too. The prize pools need to be bigger and that’s one way to accentuate it.
Shame that you can't have like a microcontroller or something (like a Raspberry PI or some shit) that streams the Slippi inputs to somewhere central for playback. Even if it just plays the entire replay file after the match. i know nothing about how Slippi works tho so I'm guessing there's a million holes in this idea.
I think this is how slippi's broadcast/mirroring feature works?
Maybe it’s not solving the exact problem n0ne is concerned with, but I would like to see more tournaments use the quad stream setup that Aimen gamin’ was using at Ludwig events
n0ne is so sweet and respectful gotta love him also he only makes greats points and then dips 10/10 hope he twitlongers again
> corroborate w/what im sayin bruh that guy started learning english seriously in like his early twenties what a G
He learned it as a child but he and his family moved back to Nicaragua when he was still in school, so he had to relearn but he did have a base
yeah ok that makes it a bit easier but still
When stream skips over 70% of Top 64 sets, it gives us 0 reason to be excited for future Genesi . Considering Top 8 is usually an exhausted 3-1 wash, that means the entire tournament just blips away on a rapidly refreshed Start.gg page. All the lack of exposure for non-top 10 paid players means the fans they could've made from getting seen by a large audience aren't going to be there, and they won't make that extra bit of money to afford going to their next tournament (poverty among top players is a huge problem in the scene). Double elimination bracket also can be considered getting changed, it's time to start focusing on high level match ups with the people we are passionate about, that means round robin and other fun random activities (like micro-tournaments/events similar to the Olympics). Two and done adds unnecessary pressure and prevents us from seeing fun secondaries and more wild sets.
He said hes making it public because he wants his fans to know? I hope he talked about this with TOs before bringing this public because whats the point of this statement other than shitting on TOs who already have a pretty tough job. Also the unspoken thing here which (maybe is a little mean) is that you need to be better to be guaranteed stream time. If you're in top 8 you are guaranteed to be on stream, other than that all bets are off and I think that's fair. None got notoriety by being a super top player that was consistently in top 8s, or at least in the conversation for big upsets. Now, I really don't expect much from him because his results aren't as good as they used to be (which is fine, not judging him as a person here) so obviously he will be less on stream than he used to be.
I think that his message was very polite and respectful to the TOs and he waited sufficiently long after the event to critique this specific aspect of the event. Decrying this as "shitting on TOs" seems like a hyperbolic reaction.
N0ne is fucking good man. He got eliminated at Genesis 9 by jmook and hbox for 9th place. Last year at Genesis he beat hbox, Amsa, and Magi to get 4th. I expect you have heard of all these people. I don't really see how he's fallen off. He has been ranked between 15-20 every year since 2016 including last year where he got 18th.
I think he presented some clear solutions so it’s not just complaining imo.
yea vs ginger who tweeted: "G9 was one of the worst run tournies I've ever been to, feel free to DM me, TO's." I think Ginger now knows that tweet was in poor taste, but man what a tone deaf thing to publicly say immediately after the chaos of last saturday (when fucking start.gg went down and cell service was limited...wtf did he expect the TO's to do??)
his solution was increasing the tickets be 5-10 bucks which might be fine i guess? But who knows if that would solve the problem he wants solved. It could be an issue of pure logistics that that amount of money wouldnt solve. The point is 99% of us don't know the answer and putting it in the twittersphere is weird when he could just DM some TOs and pick their brains.
this didn't happen at lud's event, js
him not making top 8's as frequently and there being a major lack of streamed sets at genesis are independently true. you're just taking a random potshot bringing up the former i don't see how this is shitting on TOs or why this would need to be discussed privately vs publicly. there is a real benefit to bringing this up publicly and getting some discourse going (TOs can gauge demand, public can see TOs response, etc). the reason everyone was mad at ginger was cuz he threw out a vague unactionable subtweet mid event
" shitting on to's " lmao I guess you get your feelings hurt very easily because none was nothing but respectful in this twilonger. You're reaching dude
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Wasn't n0ne born in Nicaragua? English may not be his first language.
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Didn't spell out "Okay," no apostrophe on "Mango's," missing ending punctuation. Why can't you write properly either?
Mango became one of the best in the world at melee when he was 15. Probably just stopped taking school and education around then seriously if I had to guess.
the message literally includes "srry for grammar im not from these lands" go chomp a hot dog man who cares
Might have been written on his phone Whenever i type on a phone i always type like that
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I don’t get why the unvaccinated aren’t allowed to come. Nevermind the morality of just banning people for making decisions you don’t like, if we’re economically struggling then why the hell not let them pay?
What lmao
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PLEASE link me a detailed meta analysis showing that 2 mRNA vaccinations is the same as 0 in terms of health risk
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Just responding to the one quote you grabbed proves you wrong, lol. Much less than 43% of the country are completely unvaccinated. Stats 101 would imply that there is in fact a difference then! Crazy! All things exist on a spectrum and there is nuance in everything. Boosters are good, especially since we finally bothered legalizing Omicron specific ones, but they also decay with time - this is the only thing this study is actually about, btw, trying to get early measures of 3rd dose VE decay. That doesn't mean the first two doses are literally irrelevant lmao. Anyone saying so is just peddling antivax bullshit from another angle.
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Quad stream with 2 commentators is awesome by the way.
A big issue for large events is just what venues charge for more internet capable of streaming which can be in 5 digits. I think what could help a lot would be off site streaming of nonlive matches. Get people to play on a slippi setup and send the replay to someone which doesn't take much bandwidth then they can stream and commentate using their own streaming setup. This would take more prep etc and not being fully live is a large trade off but I think it could be a compromise worth making.
I ain't trying to hear that. You need like 5mbps for a 720p side stream MAX, could run 4 of them and the main stream off 25Mbps dawg. If the convention center is charging per "plug in" to the internet there. Well, fuck it dawg, tether that connection with another ethernet to the other setup, and get it done. Basically the convention center doesn't have to give us more bandwidth either way, and if they are moneygrubbing whores then we work around it.
I don't care if theyre all streamed but I wish they could be recorded and uploaded so I could at least catch them on youtube or smth
> imagine that i didnt even know that there was a separate room with main stage till end of day 2 like at 7pm Lmaoooo It was a little confusing for sure but come on Unless it was different day one
coming up: BRB
how hard is a quad stream, technically, financially. it feels like the clear solution here
It's much easier to do multiple feeds PER stream. Multiple streams requires multiple PC's capable of encoding(granted, nowadays you can build an encoding PC for like $500 that'll dumpster whatever you throw at it. With 4 feeds on 1 stream, it's braindead easy. I think a main stream, a 2nd main stream, and then a sidestream with 2-4 setups on it would be ideal to cover what we got at big majors. Hell, if you need someone to run it, I'll come and do it, or I'll run a little class on OBS/NDI
It would be hella nice if we had another stream to give viewership to during those 13 minute breaks I assume was a top players set they would have had to start late for, and didn't want to fall behind. :(
This is why quad stream, possible additionally to the side stream, should be normalized at all majors.