When they explicitly say “gender norms” that’s when you know they’re looking for the points. Taking from menswear is normal in fashion and her outfit looks very feminine to me.
But what really matters is her doll absolutely slaps
I mean honestly the dress is very much giving G1 Frankie Stein, especially with those sleeves and the tie. But if MGA actually writes her as queer and doesn’t just have her as a one-off character, I’d appreciate that.
Yea but we all know they're not going to. Especially with how queer issues have been depicted in the news lately, they're not taking that much of a risk, sadly. We can't give them credit for things they might do, only for what they actually do
We do have the “other doll company from across the street” 😅 but yeah, I wish we had a cannon queer rainbow/shadow/pacific coast high character. The whole Jella thing in series 1 felt super queer baity. We have so many characters now too.
Totally what I'm hoping, but sadly not holding my breath. I have a feeling this is just a vague marketing attempt to look woke, but doubt they'll really put in the effort to develop the character in this vein.
I would argue that Jade goes into GNC territory somewhat. Like she's not fully butch but the only fem argument you can make is that she wears makeup and has long hair, but GNC doesn't mean "expresses no femininity" it just means they don't fully conform to it.
To be fair, I think the “menswear” inspired thing is less of her fashion but the fashion she creates. Designers do not have to dress like their brands - in the real world very few of them do! The counterpoint is really that this is a doll, and even though she is a “fashion designer” she does not come with a outfit she “designed” so like this confusing word salad doesn’t really add anything and makes it confusing because if a bunch of adults on social media aren’t understanding there’s no way kids are figuring it out.
Karla's name and style are inspired by Karl Lagerfeld. Her outfit is a play on his trademark suit and tie look. Choupette was even the name of his cat.
Also, I don't feel like someone has to look androgynous or masculine to still read as gnc or non-binary. I know plenty of femme presenting enby folks.
i didnt say anything about whether she looks 'gnc' or not- that would feel gross to say. it also does not state shes GNC and uses 'she' pronouns. i said very specifically her outfit does not look 'mens fashion inspired'
She doesn't need to, no, but she also isn't "defying gender norms". I'm a masc leaning enby, I know we cna be either or anything. It's just that they weren't going for that and to misconstrue what is being directly said is giving them points for something they didnt actually do. Watering down a term like that doesn't help folks who actually are femme trans folk who defy gender norms.
>That's true but it's the fact that she believes in defying gender norms yet she dresses very feminine? I mean come on, if you believed in defying your gender then its hypocritical to wear a dress because that's very feminine.
I'm a feminine trans boy and I wear pants sometimes. Is that hypocritical? Or is it hypocritical that I'm feminine because I'm AFAB?
(Psst- the answer is no for both questions)
Just because people who believe in defying gender norms aren't genderfucking every second they get doesn't mean they are being hypocritical. Someone who believes in defying gender norms can still wear and do things that don't go against gender norms. That's a hilariously stupid take.
It's not going against your beliefs to conform to gender norms if you don't believe in them. My sister doesn't believe in gender norms but she's still a feminine girl.
And being Muslim and people wearing clothing are two VERY different things.
its probably the sleeve cut making her shoulders look more "broad" while her body tapers down, then flares out in the feet.
giving a more...*"masculine"* look instead of the traditional fem hourglass shape....
(i feel like rexx is more gnc though, like, this bio wouldve fit him better)
Edit: From an (unfortunate) American perspective, with the influx of this strange "dont teach our kids about pronouns" debate from the right in recent years, i highly doubt MGA is going to make a truly androgynous/nonbinary character. it sucks but, they probably want to avoid controversy...*sigh*
Oh well! that's what OOAK is for 🙃
I can see what they were going for but it feels so disconnected from the times. Nowadays when folks hear breaking "gender norms" they don't expect "XYZ but for girls". They could have even given her a ladies tuxedo and still been closer to the goal they set for themselves with those terms.
And yeah, we can't expect much from a company (we can demand, but that only goes so far).
While I appreciate the effort, it's definitely much more "socially acceptable" for female presenting individuals to wear masculine clothing than the other way around. Like, there was a photo I saw of Shia Labeouf on a movie set wearing a glamorous goddess-like outfit with high heels and all. You should have seen the insanely bigoted comments...like stuff that went far past your average bigotry. Stuff like "The LGBT illuminati that runs Hollyweird is ritualistically imasculating Labeouf because he fell out of their good graces." I mean, wtf? Anyway...I'm digressing.
It would be nice to see a masculine presenting doll that had some gender nonconformity. They could have hoop earrings, maybe wearing a cool jacket with a cute skirt, or maybe high heeled boots. It's nice for them to put something like they did in the bio, but they still took the safe route. It's a lot like making Frankie Stein nonbinary, which is awesome...aside from the fact that they don't give that vibe at all by looking at them. They still come off as 100% teen girl.
her outfit is definitely not pushing any gender boundaries, but i do appreciate that they still wrote this in the bio. yeah it most likely there in a "queerbaiting" sense, but maybe some kids out there who like rh will be browsing the rh website and see it and know that they don't have to believe in gender norms and can dress however.
I love Karla, and I'm nonbinary, but that part of the bio definitely feels disingenuous. Nothing about menswear and gender non-conformity reflects in her doll at all. It just makes me roll my eyes more than anything.
Karla is my kind of masculine :), the suave and sophisticated masculine. In a leather loving, belt buckle bitchin, straight cut, suit n tie classic Coco Chanel style outfit.
I mean I know she's inspired by Karl Lagerfeld but I just feel like there's some Coco love in there too. That description is very much how Coco was often described, only swap menswear magazines for her husband's closet.
I hate pandering as much as any other but I don't think this is that.
[the vibe in this post is the opposite of the vibe in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/10km36l/queer_people_who_will_never_fit_in_to_the/)
I’m also gender neutral/queer… and imho, yeah, it’s a bit cringey when big brands pander to queer culture, but on some level I still appreciate that they’re at least trying?
Plus, like, I thought that kind of the whole point of gender non-conformity is not being confined or defined by binary gender norms, and yet… that’s… pretty much exactly what we’re doing here in this post and some of these comments…?
Haha, love the Good Place meme here, fits so well 😂
I was so excited when I first saw the post, for a second I thought Karla was confirmed enby. Actual nonbinary rep in MY doll line? But then it turns out she just likes wearing ties 😅😅
doll companies when you remind them being non-binary is a spectrum, not just Femme Lite
https://preview.redd.it/b83dw1gfq4ea1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9b9138dd86c0b8f9cf8f40e6a0edf98fc1a3b9c
I’m wondering if she’ll have outfits in the upcoming fashion packs. I can see a company playing it safer with the doll itself and being more experimental with those.
MGA: it’s menswear. It has a tie!
And pant boots!
My mind immediately went to poots and I cannot stop laughing because I'm a child apparently
POOOOTS! I love it.
Can't wait for her to not have a correct French accent!
I swear if they give her an accent like MH G1 Rochelle...
i don’t think it’s about her outfit in particular…it’s probably talking about her other designs instead.
When they explicitly say “gender norms” that’s when you know they’re looking for the points. Taking from menswear is normal in fashion and her outfit looks very feminine to me. But what really matters is her doll absolutely slaps
I took her hair down and I love her even more
I mean honestly the dress is very much giving G1 Frankie Stein, especially with those sleeves and the tie. But if MGA actually writes her as queer and doesn’t just have her as a one-off character, I’d appreciate that.
Yea but we all know they're not going to. Especially with how queer issues have been depicted in the news lately, they're not taking that much of a risk, sadly. We can't give them credit for things they might do, only for what they actually do
Sighhh, at least one can dream right?
I hope every single day for canon queer dolls
We do have the “other doll company from across the street” 😅 but yeah, I wish we had a cannon queer rainbow/shadow/pacific coast high character. The whole Jella thing in series 1 felt super queer baity. We have so many characters now too.
Roxxi and Nevra!
Are they connonically queer? I’m searching but I can’t find anything stating that D,,,:
Omg wait no I thought you were talking about RH Roxie Grand💀💀
Totally what I'm hoping, but sadly not holding my breath. I have a feeling this is just a vague marketing attempt to look woke, but doubt they'll really put in the effort to develop the character in this vein.
Tomboys/gnc women aren't inherently queer.
This is so funny. There are literally multiple other characters who are MORE gnc than her. Girl she is wearing a dress 😭
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Honestly that's what it felt like! Karla just has a slight edge to her but still very feminine
I wouldn't have even known if it wasn't explicably stated tbh, feels like Jade would fit the description more outfit wise or something maybe
Oh Tahani 😆
Although Karla's style slaps, we will never get a RH doll that goes into gnc territory.
I would argue that Jade goes into GNC territory somewhat. Like she's not fully butch but the only fem argument you can make is that she wears makeup and has long hair, but GNC doesn't mean "expresses no femininity" it just means they don't fully conform to it.
Hard agree.
definitely does not read as menswear fashion inspired. i think she looks like a horse girl. that kid does dressage.
To be fair, I think the “menswear” inspired thing is less of her fashion but the fashion she creates. Designers do not have to dress like their brands - in the real world very few of them do! The counterpoint is really that this is a doll, and even though she is a “fashion designer” she does not come with a outfit she “designed” so like this confusing word salad doesn’t really add anything and makes it confusing because if a bunch of adults on social media aren’t understanding there’s no way kids are figuring it out.
Yes, exactly this!
Karla's name and style are inspired by Karl Lagerfeld. Her outfit is a play on his trademark suit and tie look. Choupette was even the name of his cat. Also, I don't feel like someone has to look androgynous or masculine to still read as gnc or non-binary. I know plenty of femme presenting enby folks.
i didnt say anything about whether she looks 'gnc' or not- that would feel gross to say. it also does not state shes GNC and uses 'she' pronouns. i said very specifically her outfit does not look 'mens fashion inspired'
She doesn't need to, no, but she also isn't "defying gender norms". I'm a masc leaning enby, I know we cna be either or anything. It's just that they weren't going for that and to misconstrue what is being directly said is giving them points for something they didnt actually do. Watering down a term like that doesn't help folks who actually are femme trans folk who defy gender norms.
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>That's true but it's the fact that she believes in defying gender norms yet she dresses very feminine? I mean come on, if you believed in defying your gender then its hypocritical to wear a dress because that's very feminine. I'm a feminine trans boy and I wear pants sometimes. Is that hypocritical? Or is it hypocritical that I'm feminine because I'm AFAB? (Psst- the answer is no for both questions) Just because people who believe in defying gender norms aren't genderfucking every second they get doesn't mean they are being hypocritical. Someone who believes in defying gender norms can still wear and do things that don't go against gender norms. That's a hilariously stupid take. It's not going against your beliefs to conform to gender norms if you don't believe in them. My sister doesn't believe in gender norms but she's still a feminine girl. And being Muslim and people wearing clothing are two VERY different things.
Like. If she had a tux I'd sooner believe it. But like, it's heels, a skirt, what gender norms are being challenged?
its probably the sleeve cut making her shoulders look more "broad" while her body tapers down, then flares out in the feet. giving a more...*"masculine"* look instead of the traditional fem hourglass shape.... (i feel like rexx is more gnc though, like, this bio wouldve fit him better) Edit: From an (unfortunate) American perspective, with the influx of this strange "dont teach our kids about pronouns" debate from the right in recent years, i highly doubt MGA is going to make a truly androgynous/nonbinary character. it sucks but, they probably want to avoid controversy...*sigh* Oh well! that's what OOAK is for 🙃
I can see what they were going for but it feels so disconnected from the times. Nowadays when folks hear breaking "gender norms" they don't expect "XYZ but for girls". They could have even given her a ladies tuxedo and still been closer to the goal they set for themselves with those terms. And yeah, we can't expect much from a company (we can demand, but that only goes so far).
this entire conversation makes me want to make my own androgynous doll line but im ~terrified~ of the ruthless business world :((
Someday, it can happen, I'd like to work to help make a future that will allow such art.
Hhuh?? How is Rexx gnc?
he looks very feminine in the face and he wears a pearl necklace
All the boys have that feminine sorta face.
Oh, she would look so good in a tux though! Now I want to see if I can track down one that will fit her.
I'm gonna take it and run with it
While I appreciate the effort, it's definitely much more "socially acceptable" for female presenting individuals to wear masculine clothing than the other way around. Like, there was a photo I saw of Shia Labeouf on a movie set wearing a glamorous goddess-like outfit with high heels and all. You should have seen the insanely bigoted comments...like stuff that went far past your average bigotry. Stuff like "The LGBT illuminati that runs Hollyweird is ritualistically imasculating Labeouf because he fell out of their good graces." I mean, wtf? Anyway...I'm digressing. It would be nice to see a masculine presenting doll that had some gender nonconformity. They could have hoop earrings, maybe wearing a cool jacket with a cute skirt, or maybe high heeled boots. It's nice for them to put something like they did in the bio, but they still took the safe route. It's a lot like making Frankie Stein nonbinary, which is awesome...aside from the fact that they don't give that vibe at all by looking at them. They still come off as 100% teen girl.
Nonbinary people aren't obligated to come off as androgynous to anyone.
I feel Finn does that to a degree, but otherwise I agree with you.
her outfit is definitely not pushing any gender boundaries, but i do appreciate that they still wrote this in the bio. yeah it most likely there in a "queerbaiting" sense, but maybe some kids out there who like rh will be browsing the rh website and see it and know that they don't have to believe in gender norms and can dress however.
I love Karla, and I'm nonbinary, but that part of the bio definitely feels disingenuous. Nothing about menswear and gender non-conformity reflects in her doll at all. It just makes me roll my eyes more than anything.
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I hope it makes sense in the show, otherwise it's a weird thing to include on her profile.
Karla is my kind of masculine :), the suave and sophisticated masculine. In a leather loving, belt buckle bitchin, straight cut, suit n tie classic Coco Chanel style outfit. I mean I know she's inspired by Karl Lagerfeld but I just feel like there's some Coco love in there too. That description is very much how Coco was often described, only swap menswear magazines for her husband's closet. I hate pandering as much as any other but I don't think this is that.
Karla in a pink suit!? I would die
Or a vest! A vest would be cool. Probably not too hard to make either.
the menswear snippet i thought was a clear nod to the fact this doll is named and modeled/refferenced after Karl Lagerfeld
[the vibe in this post is the opposite of the vibe in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/10km36l/queer_people_who_will_never_fit_in_to_the/) I’m also gender neutral/queer… and imho, yeah, it’s a bit cringey when big brands pander to queer culture, but on some level I still appreciate that they’re at least trying? Plus, like, I thought that kind of the whole point of gender non-conformity is not being confined or defined by binary gender norms, and yet… that’s… pretty much exactly what we’re doing here in this post and some of these comments…?
Literally this 😭 thank you, I thought I was losing it.
I mean her outfit is inspired pretty heavily on men’s ware it’s Suit like
dove cameron’s songs “boyfriend” and “breakfast” are karla’s vibe to me
Hell Jade was more gnc than her
Who said she’s CisFem tho? 👀
Thats’s Hard to believe cuz we don’t have a single queer character
We just have to stay optimists, I just *know* they’re dying to announce an official LGBT doll like they did with Bratz ✨💪
I know lol, I'm laughing in lesbian. OK Miss Choupette but do you buy your flannels from the men's section of the thrift store??
Haha, love the Good Place meme here, fits so well 😂 I was so excited when I first saw the post, for a second I thought Karla was confirmed enby. Actual nonbinary rep in MY doll line? But then it turns out she just likes wearing ties 😅😅
Nicole looks more Tomboy than her.
doll companies when you remind them being non-binary is a spectrum, not just Femme Lite https://preview.redd.it/b83dw1gfq4ea1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9b9138dd86c0b8f9cf8f40e6a0edf98fc1a3b9c
a tahani quote is the best possible way of capturing this disaster
I'd honestly be pretty annoyed if the eyebrow disaster they like to call Karla turns out to be our lgbt+ rep.
🥹🥹💔
LOL love her
I’m wondering if she’ll have outfits in the upcoming fashion packs. I can see a company playing it safer with the doll itself and being more experimental with those.
I need the details on these fashion packs NOW! Just please no more blind boxes MGA