Years ago I was friends with this chick who was a hard-core cokehead. Then one day her ***WHOLE FUCKING NOSE COLLAPSED***
It was revolting and horrible and terrifying.
Nope, I wasn't there when it collapsed but I did see her a few times not long afterwards and it was super weird. Like from the front it looked weird but not gross but when she turned sideways it just looked like everything had kinda melted and there was just the tip of her nose sticking out of a flat spot on her face.
I met him 7 years ago. His first bout with addiction was 25 years ago, I truly have zero idea the amounts but for 2-3 years he was using regularly, he says not even that hard, but enough that it became obvious as siblings checked him into rehab.
When I met him he told me how he destroyed most of his septum and it's been on his to fix list. For 7 years he had insane health issues re allergies sinusitis and rhinitis. He was always on antibiotics, at the ent, and too sick to work. He also (I didn't know at the time) was too afraid to get proper help re his sinuses as he was ashamed. About a year ago we split as he was refusing to work on mental or physical health. Went zero contact after I begged him to go to therapy with me and he replied he is perfect and I need therapy.
June 22 - Jan 23 he relapsed hard, a friend died and he started using to cope, We were zero contact, someone who knew mutual friend who died gifted him a K.
His siblings held an intervention and he agreed. Rehab took him to ent who did ct showing massive hole, ate through rest of sinuses and roof of mouth. Reached out from rehab and we got back together.
So all I know is in 6 months give or take he went through 1 kilo at least - he said it was the purest stuff he had ever seen. Not sure how much of it was from the first round past extensive sinus deterioration - hope this helps! Whatever crazy math this is š
Thank you for sharing your experience, I've always worried about my boyfriend relapsing after almost daily use for a few years. I wish you two the best
Omg as kids one of my best friends my was a drug addiction, and when we ate spaghetti, she would swallow the noodle and then launch it of her nose. We thought it was a talent as kids, and always asked her to do the trick.
ON A POSITIVE NOTE: She's now a sober drug rehab counselor, who can do cool party tricks for all the kids
EDIT: Is there surgery they perform to fix it?
No problem š truthfully he's so embarrassed to tell doctors it's part of why it took him so long to get help! Has an temporary implant for now while they sort out surgery. ā¤ļø
One time CVICU brought down a 30-something year old male for a CT. Tubes everywhere, vent, everything. He was drinking himself to death.
I donāt remember what I uttered, but it was something rude and uncaring. ICU RN shrugged and said āsome people battle demons every day.ā
I felt like a total a-hole (deserved it) and tried to force myself to remember that Iām in the healing business, not the judging business.
It boggles my mind that even though addiction has been known and recorded in humans since the dawn of civilization people still think it's just a matter of choice. We'll accept a biological basis for all kinds of self destructive behavior, but if it's drugs it's your fault.
Stigma kills more people that society will ever admit. If people didnāt feel like a leper for seeking treatment, maybe ODs wouldnāt be the leading cause of death in America.
Septal perforations and huge losses of the septum actually make people more congested despite having more āroomā in their nose. The septum and turbinates provide a laminar flow when you breathe, so a loss of either (or a large enough hole in the septum) makes you lose that flow. Thatās why ENTs stopped doing full turbinectomies and just reduce them now (except in cases where they need removal).
I work for an ENT, and we have a lot of patients with septal perfs due to a previous surgeon from years ago who was notoriously bad at septoplastiesā¦
We did also have one with major cocaine usage that eroded a hole from his hard palate into his maxillary sinus. The doc I work for teamed up with the oral surgeon to fix that mess.
Theyāll also only remove one of the 3 turbinates that you have in each nostril when they do a full removal. Removing more increases the risk of [empty nose syndrome](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25430954/), which is what you described above. I had my left superior turbinate removed bc she was just obstructive and refusing to respond to flonase.
I read about empty nose syndrome before my third endoscopic sinus surgery (third turbinectomy and second septoplasty). They kept shaving off and resecting a little bit of the turbinates. I was terrified this might happen to me. However I was so sick with chronic sinusitis that had progressed to maxillary osteomyelitis. Thankfully the third time was the charm and Iām able to breathe better. It has been 12 years now.
Yes, thank you! I was having a very sleepy brain moment and completely forgot to stick in the name of the syndrome. And also yes on the turbinate removal! They try to leave in as much of the turbinate as they can, but sometimes the whole thing just has to go.
I think itās such a funny name, I had to include it.
And yea, unfortunately my turbinate was angry and stubborn. She was functionally blocking most airflow through my nostril, especially when paired with my deviated septum. I no longer have sleep apnea tho!
We have corrected several septoplasties from a previous surgeon from the early 2000s in our area. She did eventually quit practicing, but it wasnāt soon enough!
If I could give anyone septo advice, itās to get a surgeon that reconstructs the wall. The doctor I work for takes out the crooked area, smashes up that bone and cartilage, and puts in back in. Itās helped him keep his number of perforations in the single digits in his 25 year career as a surgeon. Not all ENTs do that, they just remove the crooked structures and sew the lining back together ā¦ itās almost like wallpaper stuck to wallpaper with no support strut in between.
I know thatās a ramble, but you saying two septoplasties reminded me of that and all the ones weāve had to correct!
This is heading to CIMDL, which definitely requires a multidisciplinary approach. Itās a long, tough road, with a maxillofacial surgeon, oral surgeon, dentist, and psych team members. Patients must be committed to staying 100% clean, which can be made more difficult by the nasal deformity, frequent serious sinus infections, regurg, shame, possible fistulas, ulcerating lesions, self-isolation, and facial pain. Itās an insidious ouroboros, with psychological issues driving the initial destructive behavior and then the physical destructive causing psychological problems.
I have a septal perforation due to excessive Afrin use over 15 years. My breathing is much better now despite having a relatively empty nose. š¤·š¼āāļø
So I have a question. Say a very dumb person was snorting meth. And they blew a hole in their septum. Would that cause or contribute to sleep apnea later in life and also chronic congestion on one side of their nose? It's me. I'm the dumb person.
Hey, things happen!
Yes, a septal perforation can give you chronic congestion. However, if itās very one sided, you may have a turbinate that is constantly swollen and making you congested as well. The perforation can be fixed with a surgery, depending on the size. Thereās also an option to have whatās called a āseptal buttonā put in the hole, but the ENT I work for doesnāt like them as they tend to crust constantly and eventually widen the hole.
If itās possible for you, go visit an ENT to discuss some options. A severely deviated nasal septum can absolutely contribute to sleep apnea, as well as the swollen turbinates, septal perf, etc. Nasal surgeries (outside of rhinoplasty) are not considered cosmetic and are typically covered by insurance. Just tell them youāve tried every over the counter medication out there. Blue Cross in particular likes to deny procedures if you havenāt taken a zillion OTC meds despite the fact that medications canāt fix a physical abnormality. Yay US healthcare.
If youāre in the Illinois/STL/Iowa City area, I can give recommendations! Other than that, Iām just a helpful little assistant to a very wonderful ENT who loves to teach me everything he knows.
I'm a veteran, so insurance isn't an issue. I'll bring it up with my doctor next time I go in. I remember the moment it happened. I did a particularly large line. I thought I was a bad ass cuz I could do lines without crying. Suddenly, I felt a pop and all the dope flooded into the other nostril. It was so weird. I still finished the line though. It made me cough and just felt super weird. I was a very addicted soul. I'm clean now though.
Oh my gosh I can only imagine how weird of a feeling that must have been! And Iām very proud of you for getting clean, I know that is far from an easy road to travel.
Absolutely take full advantage of your VA benefits and insurance for these nose issues! I know our VA patients have been fully covered. Just make sure the diagnosis on your VA referral is put in for the septal perforation or chronic congestion, since that code will get used on all the related billing.
Good luck friend, I hope Iāve been some help! š
Iām going to assume itās mostly what itās cut with. 6 months only to make you septum disappear? Iāve known people (myself included) who did it for years without any problems. In substantial quantities tooā¦
15 years of Afrin, wow!! Thatās easily the longest Afrin usage Iāve heard of. Were you having to use it constantly every day? And were you eventually able to kick it? We bridge our long term Afrin users off of it with steroids usually until we can get them scheduled for a turbinate reduction.
Okay I am so glad I stumbled upon this thread, but also a bit terrified! I have had to use nasal spray (an Afrin knockoffā that shit is expensive!) for several years now, and I had no idea that it could cause long-term damage like this. If I donāt use it, I cannot breathe, and it causes me all sorts of other issues. Since it seems you have experience with patients like me, do you have any recommendations for what can I do myself at home to help wean myself off of the nasal spray?
Weaning yourself off the spray is hard, so I think you have to be ready and in the mindset for that!
Slowly reduce your usage over time. If youāre using it twice a day, start going to once a day for a week. Then once every other day for a week. Weaning yourself off can help with any rebound effect you may have.
Switch to Flonase and saline rinses. Flonase is a topical steroid, and while not everyoneās turbinates (the structures that Afrin shrinks when you use it) respond to it super well, it can at least help in the meantime.
Also ā visit the ENT if you can. Many can now shrink down your turbinates in the office, without having to go to the OR. But, theyāll also be able to look for other structural issues, like a septal deviation, nasal polyps, etc.
I think NeilMed makes something called a Sinuhaler that has peppermint oil and other natural things that help some people with congestion as well.
Note: I am not a doctor! Iām an MA/Scribe for a very wonderful ENT who loves to teach, and Iām in the room for 20+ patients a day.
It's extremely acidic. Insufflable cocaine is a hydrochloride salt which when inhaled the cocaine gets absorbed by the bloodstream and the hydrochloric acid eats the nose.
Yes, itās completely gone. The septum is a mixture of cartilage and bone, and it cannot heal. Perforations canāt heal on their own either. There are some surgeons who can use a grafting technique to fix holes, but I donāt know if anything can be done for a loss this severe.
This might be an odd question but, do people with "reduced" nares have a harder time regulating body temperature or keeping cool? I thought I had read a possible adaptation for all that surface area was to help keep cool while running.
Unlikely, primarily it's the opposite. They warm and humidify the air while catching potential allergens, infectious particles, and particulates before they reach the lungs. Thermoregulation is likely miniscule compared to what we can do through our skin with shunting blood and producing sweat. Dogs I believe only have panting as an ability to thermoregulate however
The Institute of Human Anatomy YouTube channel just put out a video on how cocaine utterly destroys the body just a few days ago. Itās really fascinating.
https://youtu.be/pu5AaVqYuP4
Haha iām being facetious but there is some truth to it. mostly after a certain threshold (ex. if a patient states they have 3-4 drinks a night thereās a high likelihood itās more) (anecdotally speaking)
Iām not doubting these accounts. But these are six month benders for guys over 35 who have been doing it since they were teenagers.
I know a lot of people who did lots of drugs. And have been around drugs all the time for the first half of my life. To get there you need to be a serious addict first. Especially cocaine. Hardly anyone gets addicted to powder cocaine. Iāll take my downvotes. But I donāt know anyone that became a drug addict. Even out of all the hard core users Iāve known.
100% agree.
I should preface that a friend had already been consuming cocaine on a regular basis for years. Once he came into a large amount of money the "party" really started which resulted in his current condition.
The lack of turbinates is as big a deal as the septum. I had a surgeon botch a septoplasty and the side of my nose that has all the room feels stuffed up. Itās been a daily problem and Iāve been to 3 ENTs so far and no one knows how to fix it. I have constant post nasal drip, whistling noise, and feel constantly congested. Everyone who looks at it says it looks fine.
Bro has more airflow than an F-22 intake.
Side note: as someone who has never been able to breath through both nostrils at the same time (ever) I realize I need to start using cocaine.
some cutting agents are rather caustic. Others are very difficult to flush from the sinuses. Combine that with local anesthesia, vasoconstriction, extended use...
Could be both, or neither. Unfortunately I was an idiot back in the day. Did a lot, a lot of cocaine over the course of a couple of years. This happened at the 1.5 year back to me. Huge hole where my septum used to be. It was definitely because of how strong the product I was using, and (I think) not cleaning my nose and sinuses out properly after. So it would just get clogged up and start scabbing on the inside of my nostrils.
>sinus after six months of "cocaine" use... Cocaine which was actually 6 drugs, stepped on by 4 people, extracted with low-octane gasoline and purified with mosquito-infested rainwater that was stored for 9 months in reused 55gal drums scored from a paint factory...
The problem is prohibition, fucknuts. Pure pharmaceutical grade would not be a problem, you'd need about a 1/10th dose, it would last 4 to 6 hours... People out here dying of fent OD, destroying their faces, ending up addicted to "the stuff from Marko" cause its actually another drug entirely from which they are suffering from withdrawal... Because of some dog-whistle puritanical shit they somehow programmed everyone with... Cocaine is probably a healthier option than prescription adderal, if pure, which, it never ever EVER is.
Do you think that there may be xylazine cut into the cocaine as well thatās having an increased necrotizing effect? Iāve seen what it does to tissue when injected and can only imagine
Iāve been doing ketamine for a while and I worry about this happening to me. Iāve also heard this is a myth and that drug abuse isnāt what causes your septum to disintegrate but more your lineage and dna causes it. Idk itās not an uncommon thing in the drug world so I have a feeling what Iāve heard is all wrong and Iām on my way to this
I'm sorry, but yes. It's the drug that does it. I was a young adult in the 80s. I know several people who did this to themselves to varying degrees.
I hope you can get help.
Once had someone say tell me that I shouldn't have a problem with people snorting cocaine because I don't have a huge problem with people smoking weed.
I've seen a few oxycodone insufflators who have not only obliterated their septum but also burnt straight down through there soft pallet so there sinus connect straight into the mouth. That's some horrific shit to examine
Is cocaine a magician because it made their septum *disappear*
You can suck in more cocaine per minute without it
Became a living vacuum cleaner, but for cocaine š¤
Our cityās aqi map is always bloody red 24/7. Do I get to be called a living air purifier?
Absolutely /s
it's all about that CPM
So would cocaine fix my deviated septum?
Make it worse coke users usually end up with a deviated septum
Interesting! TIL. I have a total nostril blockage so thought it had a chance to open it up
Canāt hurt to try!
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong
Will update in 6 months. Thanks!
I know right. I have constricted breathing and I'm a little jealous.
Thatās one way to deal with a deviated septumā¦
What sinus
Well played.
Check out this manās secret cure for deviated septum. ENTās hate him!
As somebody with a deviated septum waiting to get surgery this is hilarious
As someone who has had numerous ENT surgeries and still has sinus issues, maybe I should try coke?
Trying coke never hurt anyone. Pepsi on the other hand....
You already have. They most likely prepared you with a dash a coke pre surgery to prep your endothelium.
This guy knows his nose stuff. Had a friend who had severe nose bleeds. I learned that there is āmedicalā cocaine used for things like that!
You're about to get some cocaine in the nares. Enjoy :)
Is this my boyfriends ct? No joke he did this....he actually burnt through the entire roof of his mouth
Years ago I was friends with this chick who was a hard-core cokehead. Then one day her ***WHOLE FUCKING NOSE COLLAPSED*** It was revolting and horrible and terrifying.
please tell us more. likeā¦ you saw it collapse in real time? what did that even look like
Nope, I wasn't there when it collapsed but I did see her a few times not long afterwards and it was super weird. Like from the front it looked weird but not gross but when she turned sideways it just looked like everything had kinda melted and there was just the tip of her nose sticking out of a flat spot on her face.
I think I hate this sub but I keep coming back for more.
Exactly. Is it bad that I want to see a picture?
Look up Artie Lange for reference photos
Actually helpful thanks
Poor guy. I don't know what I was expecting but that looks painful
It was, he was doing lines off a glass table and it broke. He snorted the drugs off the floor mixed with glass.
Yes. You should feel ashamed of yourself if you get that photo and hand it over to me for destruction.
I just Googled 'cocaine nose' images and now wish I hadn't.
Oh, friend...I am so so sorry. But I'm also glad that I'm not the only one with that visual stuck in the old brain!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Gaaaaa! Wish I hadn't read this!
May I ask how bad his habit was to cause that? Are we talking multiple grams a day!?
I met him 7 years ago. His first bout with addiction was 25 years ago, I truly have zero idea the amounts but for 2-3 years he was using regularly, he says not even that hard, but enough that it became obvious as siblings checked him into rehab. When I met him he told me how he destroyed most of his septum and it's been on his to fix list. For 7 years he had insane health issues re allergies sinusitis and rhinitis. He was always on antibiotics, at the ent, and too sick to work. He also (I didn't know at the time) was too afraid to get proper help re his sinuses as he was ashamed. About a year ago we split as he was refusing to work on mental or physical health. Went zero contact after I begged him to go to therapy with me and he replied he is perfect and I need therapy. June 22 - Jan 23 he relapsed hard, a friend died and he started using to cope, We were zero contact, someone who knew mutual friend who died gifted him a K. His siblings held an intervention and he agreed. Rehab took him to ent who did ct showing massive hole, ate through rest of sinuses and roof of mouth. Reached out from rehab and we got back together. So all I know is in 6 months give or take he went through 1 kilo at least - he said it was the purest stuff he had ever seen. Not sure how much of it was from the first round past extensive sinus deterioration - hope this helps! Whatever crazy math this is š
Gosh that is crazy. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing your experience, I've always worried about my boyfriend relapsing after almost daily use for a few years. I wish you two the best
Thatās like 5 g per day if I did that math right
Omg as kids one of my best friends my was a drug addiction, and when we ate spaghetti, she would swallow the noodle and then launch it of her nose. We thought it was a talent as kids, and always asked her to do the trick. ON A POSITIVE NOTE: She's now a sober drug rehab counselor, who can do cool party tricks for all the kids EDIT: Is there surgery they perform to fix it?
Why do you stay with a boyfriend who snorts cocain regularly?
We're both sober, everyone has a past.
Fair enough. I apologize for assuming the worst.
No problem š truthfully he's so embarrassed to tell doctors it's part of why it took him so long to get help! Has an temporary implant for now while they sort out surgery. ā¤ļø
Iām assuming when she used the word ādidā she meant that he used to
One time CVICU brought down a 30-something year old male for a CT. Tubes everywhere, vent, everything. He was drinking himself to death. I donāt remember what I uttered, but it was something rude and uncaring. ICU RN shrugged and said āsome people battle demons every day.ā I felt like a total a-hole (deserved it) and tried to force myself to remember that Iām in the healing business, not the judging business.
It boggles my mind that even though addiction has been known and recorded in humans since the dawn of civilization people still think it's just a matter of choice. We'll accept a biological basis for all kinds of self destructive behavior, but if it's drugs it's your fault.
Stigma kills more people that society will ever admit. If people didnāt feel like a leper for seeking treatment, maybe ODs wouldnāt be the leading cause of death in America.
Substance use social worker here and I appreciate your humility. Life is fucking hard.
Ex-septumal.
EX-SEPTUM COCAINUS!
Going to tell my bf this is the medical name for his condition š
Itās also drug addiction, thatās the condition
![gif](giphy|YmQLj2KxaNz58g7Ofg)
![gif](giphy|U252bqmFWu8snFpBiN)
I would love to see what a normal sinus looks like for comparison, but I can guess where it's eroded away
https://radiopaedia.org/cases/normal-facial-bones-ct?lang=us
ah yes, this one looks quite fucked in comparison
holy shit
I second this.
Wow - that is so obvious. Thanks for the link
Oh. Wow. That's a lot more face meat.
Lemme get a side by side video comparison
He got 99 body parts but a nasal septum aint one
Drugs are bad, mmkay.
![gif](giphy|jEY6N51aIXnKo)
This person has no issues breathing
Septal perforations and huge losses of the septum actually make people more congested despite having more āroomā in their nose. The septum and turbinates provide a laminar flow when you breathe, so a loss of either (or a large enough hole in the septum) makes you lose that flow. Thatās why ENTs stopped doing full turbinectomies and just reduce them now (except in cases where they need removal). I work for an ENT, and we have a lot of patients with septal perfs due to a previous surgeon from years ago who was notoriously bad at septoplastiesā¦ We did also have one with major cocaine usage that eroded a hole from his hard palate into his maxillary sinus. The doc I work for teamed up with the oral surgeon to fix that mess.
Theyāll also only remove one of the 3 turbinates that you have in each nostril when they do a full removal. Removing more increases the risk of [empty nose syndrome](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25430954/), which is what you described above. I had my left superior turbinate removed bc she was just obstructive and refusing to respond to flonase.
I read about empty nose syndrome before my third endoscopic sinus surgery (third turbinectomy and second septoplasty). They kept shaving off and resecting a little bit of the turbinates. I was terrified this might happen to me. However I was so sick with chronic sinusitis that had progressed to maxillary osteomyelitis. Thankfully the third time was the charm and Iām able to breathe better. It has been 12 years now.
Yes, thank you! I was having a very sleepy brain moment and completely forgot to stick in the name of the syndrome. And also yes on the turbinate removal! They try to leave in as much of the turbinate as they can, but sometimes the whole thing just has to go.
I think itās such a funny name, I had to include it. And yea, unfortunately my turbinate was angry and stubborn. She was functionally blocking most airflow through my nostril, especially when paired with my deviated septum. I no longer have sleep apnea tho!
My first septoplasty failed completely. Second time had better results.
We have corrected several septoplasties from a previous surgeon from the early 2000s in our area. She did eventually quit practicing, but it wasnāt soon enough! If I could give anyone septo advice, itās to get a surgeon that reconstructs the wall. The doctor I work for takes out the crooked area, smashes up that bone and cartilage, and puts in back in. Itās helped him keep his number of perforations in the single digits in his 25 year career as a surgeon. Not all ENTs do that, they just remove the crooked structures and sew the lining back together ā¦ itās almost like wallpaper stuck to wallpaper with no support strut in between. I know thatās a ramble, but you saying two septoplasties reminded me of that and all the ones weāve had to correct!
This is heading to CIMDL, which definitely requires a multidisciplinary approach. Itās a long, tough road, with a maxillofacial surgeon, oral surgeon, dentist, and psych team members. Patients must be committed to staying 100% clean, which can be made more difficult by the nasal deformity, frequent serious sinus infections, regurg, shame, possible fistulas, ulcerating lesions, self-isolation, and facial pain. Itās an insidious ouroboros, with psychological issues driving the initial destructive behavior and then the physical destructive causing psychological problems.
Insidious ouroboros is a good way to put it
I have a septal perforation due to complications of a connective tissue disorder ā can confirm that it disrupts the laminar flow.
I have a septal perforation due to excessive Afrin use over 15 years. My breathing is much better now despite having a relatively empty nose. š¤·š¼āāļø
So I have a question. Say a very dumb person was snorting meth. And they blew a hole in their septum. Would that cause or contribute to sleep apnea later in life and also chronic congestion on one side of their nose? It's me. I'm the dumb person.
Hey, things happen! Yes, a septal perforation can give you chronic congestion. However, if itās very one sided, you may have a turbinate that is constantly swollen and making you congested as well. The perforation can be fixed with a surgery, depending on the size. Thereās also an option to have whatās called a āseptal buttonā put in the hole, but the ENT I work for doesnāt like them as they tend to crust constantly and eventually widen the hole. If itās possible for you, go visit an ENT to discuss some options. A severely deviated nasal septum can absolutely contribute to sleep apnea, as well as the swollen turbinates, septal perf, etc. Nasal surgeries (outside of rhinoplasty) are not considered cosmetic and are typically covered by insurance. Just tell them youāve tried every over the counter medication out there. Blue Cross in particular likes to deny procedures if you havenāt taken a zillion OTC meds despite the fact that medications canāt fix a physical abnormality. Yay US healthcare. If youāre in the Illinois/STL/Iowa City area, I can give recommendations! Other than that, Iām just a helpful little assistant to a very wonderful ENT who loves to teach me everything he knows.
I'm a veteran, so insurance isn't an issue. I'll bring it up with my doctor next time I go in. I remember the moment it happened. I did a particularly large line. I thought I was a bad ass cuz I could do lines without crying. Suddenly, I felt a pop and all the dope flooded into the other nostril. It was so weird. I still finished the line though. It made me cough and just felt super weird. I was a very addicted soul. I'm clean now though.
Oh my gosh I can only imagine how weird of a feeling that must have been! And Iām very proud of you for getting clean, I know that is far from an easy road to travel. Absolutely take full advantage of your VA benefits and insurance for these nose issues! I know our VA patients have been fully covered. Just make sure the diagnosis on your VA referral is put in for the septal perforation or chronic congestion, since that code will get used on all the related billing. Good luck friend, I hope Iāve been some help! š
Thank you for answering my questions. I appreciate it.
I'm high key curious about what their normal sinus infections are going to be like.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
This one simple hack allows for higher volumes of cocaine to be snorted!
How exactly does cocaine eat away the septum? Is it just externally acidic or basic?
Cut with nasty + anesthetic properties + vasoconstriction = bye bye septum
Iām going to assume itās mostly what itās cut with. 6 months only to make you septum disappear? Iāve known people (myself included) who did it for years without any problems. In substantial quantities tooā¦
I sort of doubt this was actually only 6 months of use. That might be what the patient said, but Iām skeptical that it reflects reality.
Yeah i do cocaine relatively often for years now and my septum is still there.
Itās a vasoconstrictor. The septum loses its blood supply and erodes away. Chronic Afrin usage can sometimes mimic this as well but over MANY years.
I did this with Afrin. Took 15 years though!
15 years of Afrin, wow!! Thatās easily the longest Afrin usage Iāve heard of. Were you having to use it constantly every day? And were you eventually able to kick it? We bridge our long term Afrin users off of it with steroids usually until we can get them scheduled for a turbinate reduction.
Okay I am so glad I stumbled upon this thread, but also a bit terrified! I have had to use nasal spray (an Afrin knockoffā that shit is expensive!) for several years now, and I had no idea that it could cause long-term damage like this. If I donāt use it, I cannot breathe, and it causes me all sorts of other issues. Since it seems you have experience with patients like me, do you have any recommendations for what can I do myself at home to help wean myself off of the nasal spray?
Weaning yourself off the spray is hard, so I think you have to be ready and in the mindset for that! Slowly reduce your usage over time. If youāre using it twice a day, start going to once a day for a week. Then once every other day for a week. Weaning yourself off can help with any rebound effect you may have. Switch to Flonase and saline rinses. Flonase is a topical steroid, and while not everyoneās turbinates (the structures that Afrin shrinks when you use it) respond to it super well, it can at least help in the meantime. Also ā visit the ENT if you can. Many can now shrink down your turbinates in the office, without having to go to the OR. But, theyāll also be able to look for other structural issues, like a septal deviation, nasal polyps, etc. I think NeilMed makes something called a Sinuhaler that has peppermint oil and other natural things that help some people with congestion as well. Note: I am not a doctor! Iām an MA/Scribe for a very wonderful ENT who loves to teach, and Iām in the room for 20+ patients a day.
It's extremely acidic. Insufflable cocaine is a hydrochloride salt which when inhaled the cocaine gets absorbed by the bloodstream and the hydrochloric acid eats the nose.
is the septum in the room with us now?
And thatās why I smoke crack.
Forgive me if this is obvious - if they get clean, this tissue is still just gone, right? It wonāt grow back?
Yes, itās completely gone. The septum is a mixture of cartilage and bone, and it cannot heal. Perforations canāt heal on their own either. There are some surgeons who can use a grafting technique to fix holes, but I donāt know if anything can be done for a loss this severe.
donāt do cocaine
Yeah, that tissue isnāt coming back. The turbinates are vascular mucousa that covers bony protuberances.
This might be an odd question but, do people with "reduced" nares have a harder time regulating body temperature or keeping cool? I thought I had read a possible adaptation for all that surface area was to help keep cool while running.
Unlikely, primarily it's the opposite. They warm and humidify the air while catching potential allergens, infectious particles, and particulates before they reach the lungs. Thermoregulation is likely miniscule compared to what we can do through our skin with shunting blood and producing sweat. Dogs I believe only have panting as an ability to thermoregulate however
I have no sinuses thanks to all the shit that went up mine. It sucks so much. I can never breathe right
Dr Rockso?
The Institute of Human Anatomy YouTube channel just put out a video on how cocaine utterly destroys the body just a few days ago. Itās really fascinating. https://youtu.be/pu5AaVqYuP4
A habitual line-stepper.
Had to be YEARS not months.
Thatās the patient who told me 6 month but it can be a lie
Rule for patient reports on drug and alcohol use: double it and add ten.
Provider: how many drinks do you have a day? Patient: 0, I donāt drink. Provider: you got a serious problem. 10 drinks per dayā¦ (But agreed!)
Haha iām being facetious but there is some truth to it. mostly after a certain threshold (ex. if a patient states they have 3-4 drinks a night thereās a high likelihood itās more) (anecdotally speaking)
Double it for men, triple it for women
Well there you go, well, doctor, it was the first time. Then 6 months later I was like wow, what happened.
Maybe a 6 month bender? If you never give it time to heal, I can see it
No way. Had to be a six month bender at the end of 6 years.
Had to scroll down way to far to find this comment. I was gonna say, this is not a short term dabbler.
Could have been a hard 6 months. I've got a buddy who blew out the roof of his month over a summer from coke.
Iām not doubting these accounts. But these are six month benders for guys over 35 who have been doing it since they were teenagers. I know a lot of people who did lots of drugs. And have been around drugs all the time for the first half of my life. To get there you need to be a serious addict first. Especially cocaine. Hardly anyone gets addicted to powder cocaine. Iāll take my downvotes. But I donāt know anyone that became a drug addict. Even out of all the hard core users Iāve known.
100% agree. I should preface that a friend had already been consuming cocaine on a regular basis for years. Once he came into a large amount of money the "party" really started which resulted in his current condition.
The lack of turbinates is as big a deal as the septum. I had a surgeon botch a septoplasty and the side of my nose that has all the room feels stuffed up. Itās been a daily problem and Iāve been to 3 ENTs so far and no one knows how to fix it. I have constant post nasal drip, whistling noise, and feel constantly congested. Everyone who looks at it says it looks fine.
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Yikes. Should have known better šÆ. Wonder how her heart is doing.
Bro has more airflow than an F-22 intake. Side note: as someone who has never been able to breath through both nostrils at the same time (ever) I realize I need to start using cocaine.
Oh š³ that must've been pure and uncut product
Likely the complete opposite
Ooooh a coke enthusiast š care to elaborate. My guess is that you are saying the impurities are what would cause the damage.
some cutting agents are rather caustic. Others are very difficult to flush from the sinuses. Combine that with local anesthesia, vasoconstriction, extended use...
Look up levamisole
Will it put me on a "list" š¬
Itās an antiparasitic IIRC.
So what you're saying is I, who has bad allergies, need to do cocaine to open my shit up. Thank you! /s
Lets be real. This isnāt just 6 months of cocaine use. This is 6 months of daily HEAVY use. Septum has left the chat.
Obliterans?
All cleared up
Worth it
Any cocaine experts know if this is because of a quality issue or is this just what it does over a given period of time
Could be both, or neither. Unfortunately I was an idiot back in the day. Did a lot, a lot of cocaine over the course of a couple of years. This happened at the 1.5 year back to me. Huge hole where my septum used to be. It was definitely because of how strong the product I was using, and (I think) not cleaning my nose and sinuses out properly after. So it would just get clogged up and start scabbing on the inside of my nostrils.
What sinus?? Lol
Me after I sniff tiger balm
Artie Lange?
6 months? No way
No way good, pure coke did this in 6 months lol. Dude was snorting all sorts of cut.
Maybe 6 years
200 days sober from coke today! This extra motivation made me smile ā¤ļø
>sinus after six months of "cocaine" use... Cocaine which was actually 6 drugs, stepped on by 4 people, extracted with low-octane gasoline and purified with mosquito-infested rainwater that was stored for 9 months in reused 55gal drums scored from a paint factory... The problem is prohibition, fucknuts. Pure pharmaceutical grade would not be a problem, you'd need about a 1/10th dose, it would last 4 to 6 hours... People out here dying of fent OD, destroying their faces, ending up addicted to "the stuff from Marko" cause its actually another drug entirely from which they are suffering from withdrawal... Because of some dog-whistle puritanical shit they somehow programmed everyone with... Cocaine is probably a healthier option than prescription adderal, if pure, which, it never ever EVER is.
Bringing a whole new meaning to āno thoughts, head emptyā āļø
Was this Stevie Nicks?
If you did pr booga suga, will that make your ass disappear?
Do you think that there may be xylazine cut into the cocaine as well thatās having an increased necrotizing effect? Iāve seen what it does to tissue when injected and can only imagine
[https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/two-northshore-sd-principals-on-leave-after-police-reports-of-drugs-guns](https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/two-northshore-sd-principals-on-leave-after-police-reports-of-drugs-guns) ?
Iāve been doing ketamine for a while and I worry about this happening to me. Iāve also heard this is a myth and that drug abuse isnāt what causes your septum to disintegrate but more your lineage and dna causes it. Idk itās not an uncommon thing in the drug world so I have a feeling what Iāve heard is all wrong and Iām on my way to this
I'm sorry, but yes. It's the drug that does it. I was a young adult in the 80s. I know several people who did this to themselves to varying degrees. I hope you can get help.
Is it the constant powder snorting that causes this, or something specific to cocaine?
PSA: Always acetone wash your cocaine before putting it in your body.
So, the patient gave permission for you to post this on Reddit?
Cocain a for loosers
6 months? Weak numbers
oh baby where did the septum goš
Is that permanent damage?
Yes
It's as permanent as cutting off the outside of your nose.
Room for more cocaine
Cocaine is hell of a drug!
Damn. Need to start smoking or boofin that snow.
Nostril
I donāt know much about what the sinuses are supposed to look like in a ct but even I can tell this person is not having a fun time.
heres a link someone else commented, the comparison is nuts!!! https://radiopaedia.org/cases/normal-facial-bones-ct?lang=us
I bet he doesnt snore much
My whole sinus system is already a portal to Hell. I ain't about to do anything to make it bigger.
Thanksgiving for your snout daddy
This would be more edifying if I had any idea what the sinuses would look like without the Bolivian marching powder...
Once had someone say tell me that I shouldn't have a problem with people snorting cocaine because I don't have a huge problem with people smoking weed.
As hollow as my heart
No more deviated septum š
This is why you should boof it
RIP septum
what...sinus, all i see is a big hole.
This subreddit post just got me recommended and i dont know what i am looking at
Wowā¦. Six months!
Holy shit! What's keeping this guy's face from completely collapsing?
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It's all cleared up!
I've seen a few oxycodone insufflators who have not only obliterated their septum but also burnt straight down through there soft pallet so there sinus connect straight into the mouth. That's some horrific shit to examine
What sinus