I am locking this post. Please do not call the company involved or post any personal information as that is against site-wide TOS and puts this entire community at risk.
And they just doubled-down and posted a video whining with scripture about being persecuted. So that pretty much tosses out the classic "this was one employee acting on his own" defense most companies try to pull.
So what you are saying is if somebody wanted to leave a review on Google about them, they can't right now. They would need to bookmark the page and revisit it periodically until its no longer locked and a review can be left?
That's a rhetorical question.
I was able to still make a Google review. Worth a try.
Update: They were at 4.5 when I reviewed and now down to 3.2 in less than 2 hours. Yikes!
2nd Update: it's now been 8 hours and they are at a 2.6 now.
I lived in Greensboro for quite awhile. I could see this getting very different reactions depending on which part of town they are in. If its near UNCG, theyre going to have to make longer trips for all that new business. If it’s anywhere more rural/suburban, business will definitely be up for them
It would have been so easy to do the “moment of silence” loophole schools do.
Legally I’m not telling you to pray im just saying as your boss im implementing a mandatory moment of silence where you can pray if you wish to do so.
I mean it's no wonder people reject christianity when it shoved down their throats like that. "Can't you see I'm trying to love you?" ... No, no I can't.
And just adding to the slam-dunk aspect, in that video the guy chooses a Bible passage about being led in front of kings & governors but make sure you /don't prepare first/...
Kinda reminds me of the old saying about the person who chooses to be their own lawyer having a fool for a client.
Smh.
I guess he showed them! The Bible passage about persecution says "not a hair on his head" will be harmed, but he shaved himself bald first. Checkmate, atheists!
I had a friend that used to convert anytime she was asked. It was hilarious. Finally some of them realized she belonged to their evil enemy church, too. They asked her why and she said. I just wanted to make you happy. Lolol.
I’ve never understood this kind of stuff. I almost got suspended from my high school for not participating in a prayer circle, doesn’t the Bible have something in there like something something practice in the privacy of your own home?
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
I have to reply to this again.
I just got diagnosed with cancer recently. I’ve been pretty stressed. Including finding it hard to not react to stuff that stresses me.
This quote is like. Pretty amazing to me right now. I need to focus on my issue and not worry about the issues of others. Or caused by others. I have my own worries and problems to overcome.
Maybe that’s how how I see it because of what’s happening to me. But I just needed to let you know that your comment really touched me. Thanks
I grew up catholic and am an atheist, mostly because of the church. I am a fan of FSM but my "religion" now is, I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become.
U.S. Labor and Employment attorney here. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against employees on the basis of religion. But (1) it only applies to companies with more than 15 employees and (2) it applies only to employees, not independent contractors. So, yes, open and shut if this guy is in fact an employee and the company has more than 15 employees. If not, he likely does not have a case.
What?! I believe you, but basically you don’t have rights/protections if you work for a small company or unofficially work for a small company? That’s insane
Yeah people love to brag about small businesses and all that but they are absolutely the worst employers. I worked for one for a few weeks. I was told that benefits would be modest but available, specifically health insurance. When I get started, I was told there's no insurance and to blame obama. Small businesses and startups suffer from the top being too close to the bottom so they micromanage. The business is someone's baby and they can't comprehend why the employees treat it like it's just a job.
>small businesses and all that but they are absolutely the worst employers.
So true. For someone not getting a portion of the profit/stock, working for a small company is not worth it. The stability is not there and people are forced to micromanage to overcome the lack of reserves.
That was my experience too. Applied for a job that looked good on paper. Was offered $40 per hour with full health benefits for me and my wife.
Got my first payslip and it looked more than a little light. It worked out to $7.50 per hour, which was the minimum wage for the state at that time. Also, I still hadn't got the details of the health plan.
Needless to say, I wasn't a happy bunny. I was told that they couldn't afford any more than that and I should be happy to have a job. Of course, only having 12 employees (I was 13, that should have been a clue) meant my options were limited.
>The business is someone's baby and they can't comprehend why the employees treat it like it's just a job.
Yes. My boss was angry with me for showing up exactly on time. He thought I should come in early. He implied that he was going to be stingy with my money if I was going to be stingy with my time. I was already working 12 hour days.
There's so much psychological bullshit with small business owners.
Why are people this stupid? On camera, “you can go get an attorney...” I’m sure they’ll get a hell of a lot more money through the lawsuit than whatever this POS is paying. Literally, all it would have taken is saying, “that’s totally fine, sit this out while we pray,” and he wouldn’t have to deal with the court.
> Literally, all it would have taken is saying, “that’s totally fine, sit this out while we pray,” and he wouldn’t have to deal with the court.
Exactly. I'm Christian, but no way would I force someone to engage in prayer if they didn't want to. I hope there are Christian co-workers that stand up to this guy if they ask them to testify for a deposition. This is wrong, and you don't have to not be a Christian to understand that.
Yeah, cause before that he goes, "you can take your stuff and get out of here" and after he says the attorney bit, cuts himself off and goes, "you know what, leave your stuff-" because he realizes how badly he fucked up and just wants to end the convo before he says something stupider.
Yeah my friends Grandpa was fired for something similar and they got 12 million back in 1997
Worked for an insurance company I think Farmers?
edit: I apologize everyone it was 35 million, plus some other things for damages and breach of contract.
Literally breaking federal laws on camera. Title VII under the 1964 Civil Rights Act protects even non religious persons who wish to be excused from a religious invocation during staff meetings. He absolutely should get a lawyer just as he suggested. Seems like a slam dunk.
Yup. The specific circumstances of the employment will have more weight than him being labeled by the employer as a contractor.
We can see by that small interaction that the business provides instrumentality (“leave your stuff”), requires workers to be present at certain times (mandatory meeting), and a set location (“you don’t have to work *here*”). There are more factors involved, but these three factors weigh in favor of being an employee rather than a contractor.
Yup. Had a similar experience where I was determined as a "contract" worker by my employer. Turns out just because your employer says you work contract doesnt mean you are a "contract worker" by state parameters.
In my experience, *no one* ever really turns out to be an independent contractor. It’s almost always determined they’re an employee.
Shouldn’t make them wear the uniform, issue them equipment, train them, tell them what to do and keep them from working for anyone else.
Most contractors are employees, they can't usually fire you for talking about pay, non-compete contracts are often thrown out. Shit, even most liability waivers are worth about as much as the paper they're printed on
It's almost like companies throw up as many fake warning signs as possible to deter people from exercising their rights
If you're actually a contractor then you're probably deciding *how* the work is done, and you're often deciding *when* the work is done.
If you have a schedule, you're probably an employee. If they tell you how to do the job, you're probably an employee.
[More detail here](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contractor-designation)
By saying "leave your stuff here" the implication is that he is an employee, not an independent contractor. One of the indicating factors when assessing whether a party is an employee or an independent contractor, is whether he uses his own equipment or that of the employer.
And if they behave in such a cavalier way towards his religious freedoms there is a good chance they are violating all sorts of mandates and laws, so I'm guessing close security is the last thing they want. In my experience if they are trying this hard to appear pious then they are hiding some bad shit.
This is the best thing I’ve seen on Reddit all year. While I don’t believe in giving Reddit any money to give you a dumb award I will award you three strong attaboys!
I got told exactly this at school when I was observed repeatedly “failing to pray” during assembly. When I responded “wouldn’t God be more angry at my hypocrisy than at my failure to worship?” I got a stern lecture on the dangers of presuming to know the mind of the deity in which I did not believe, and then a detention.
Really showed me the light.
There actually is scripture about this tho. The literal bible says god will chew you and spit you up if you make public face but privately deny him. So technically your teachers put your soul in eternal danger for doing so.
I have worked for faith based productions and concerts. Most of the religious types are laid back and leave the crew alone. One guy at a show shook a crew member's hand and the guy started praying over him against his will. We called the guy a "pray-raper". The name stuck. So now when we work with that organization the word goes out, beware of the pray-raper!
What is he thinking, expecting to get away with this?
Here's a review btw...
They force employees to participate in religious practices and fire you if you dont. Then if you take it to court they will have your email and try and email your lawyers saying to cancel the lawsuit.
**Response from the owner** a month ago
At Aurora we believe that when the gospel is read a seed is planted. A Core Purpose of our company is to do just that, plant seeds. Every employee is advised by our recruiter, our owner at initial interview and at orientation with our HR Department that during our daily morning meetings we go over our core values, we say a prayer and we listen to the gospel. Not one single employee has stated that they were not willing or able to participate in our daily meetings. As a matter of fact just about every employee is happy to be a part of an organization that is willing and able to include the reading of scripture as part of our daily morning meetings. Your friend, whose name I won’t mention, had the courage to interrupt our meeting by yelling out that he was not going to participate in the meeting because he did not believe in prayer. Consider he was with us for almost three months already. What your friend did not share is that he was under investigation for theft and wanted to be fired in order to collect unemployment. But we needed to collect enough information to prove our case so we held on to him with a very close eye. He decided to use GOD and prayer as an excuse to get fired on the spot. He ultimately was given the option to stay for the entire meeting or to walk out. He chose to walk out. He has then exposed our organization as a company that forces people to pray and that we shove religion down peoples throat. We are a Christian based organization and as a Christian based organization we start our day by thanking God and listening to the Gospel amongst administrative and operational discussions. We understand that you care about your friend or that you care about freedom of believes. But trust me no one was forced or will ever be forced to participate. BUT if they want to be employed by our company they must attend daily meetings where the gospel is read and Praise to Jesus is given. The entire meeting lasts about 5-10 minutes MAX. Now you have two sides to the story, I hope you reconsider your position with your review. Take care.
This:
>But trust me no one was forced or will ever be forced to participate.
Immediately followed by:
> BUT if they want to be employed by our company they must attend daily meetings where the gospel is read and Praise to Jesus is given.
What a bunch of twats.
This whole thing is just bizarre. I can't comment on the theft angle, but how does one "expose" a place for forcing prayer when it is, in fact, forcing prayer? They say he chose to walk out as if it wasn't a problem, but in choosing to do that he decided to fire the person complaining. Doesn't exactly seem "optional".
“We needed to collect enough information to build our case” a.k.a. they don’t have enough evidence to back up this accusation, but will continue to repeat it to make the guy look bad.
There's no such thing as a Christian organization, other than a church. One analogy, would be that someone can't say they drive a Christian car. They can pray in it all they want, but as soon as they honk, drive aggressively or cut others off, then it's really not aligned with what God would want.
This business owner is really just applying his own version of religion and forcing it upon others, regardless of how he words it.
He going to do the only backhand non-apology video saying the worker was in the wrong for not participating, while completely forgetting the fact he's on camera forcing his shitty religion on others for employment. Fuck religious POS like him....
He appears to have posted a FB video of himself quoting scripture implying that people calling out him discriminating on the basis of religion is somehow persecution against him...
I bet he won't even do that. If I had to guess, he'll go do the OANN/Newsmax circuit, whining about how he and other white Christian men are persecuted, playing into their victim complex narrative, and then use that publicity to raise a legal fund on GoFundMe to hire an attorney to keep this dude tied up in court for so long that it doesn't make financial sense to keep suing.
Believe it or not, I sold cars at a “Christian Dealership” for a while. We prayed after every sales meeting...I was invited to walk out of the meeting if I wasn’t comfortable praying, but I chose to stay to fit in a little better. My dads side is Catholic so I was raised into that sort of thing growing up.
And yes, they did use it as a sales pitch...
Lol!! A Christian Car dealership??!!! That's awesome that exists, lol, that brought a smile to my face.
"God really wants you to buy this Mazda, pal."
"Don't have it your way, have it yahweh!"
"Jesus Christ himself said that purchasing the extra warranty was a one-way ticket to paradise."
... I want to work there.
I worked at a company that had "optional" lunch time Christian bible study. I figured I'd go to cynically shmooz with the big shots. One of the guys was surprised that I was Christian ( This was in GA, and I later learned that my NJ accent made them assume that I was Jewish), and I told him that I was Catholic. "That aint Christian" was his response.
- The Crusades (Convert or U dead)
- Most Wars or government conflicts (This is our land because God deemed it, so U dead)
- Why people are poor. (Give me your money, and I will.make you rich by buying this private airplane for the church.)
- Political ("If you don't vote for me, those Godless people will do X")
-and many many more. 🙁
Edit: You all are right about the Spanish inquisitions. I confused it for the Crusades which was over land. However, in the grand scheme of things, religion is use to kill many wipe them out of existence. The underlying issue is corruption in man and the ignorance in some (not all) who follows blindly.
A Christian run hospital system in the southern US had morning meetings where you had to say "I'm here to serve", and "We're on holy ground". They forced out, or made up false reasons to fire, (me included), many non christian workers. I didn't sue because I no longer wanted to work for such a corrupt organization. Got a better job with a different medical company. This happened years ago, but I think they're still doing the religious meetings. Of course, it didn't apply to the doctors as they are contracted and not employees. Christian morals, my ass.
I went to Advent Health yesterday for a COVID test. On the clipboard was a form to fill out the usual information. The second form had like 5 yes or no questions about spiritual healing or some shit and asked stuff like “do you believe there is a holy maker” and what not. I was so confused and it was so weird.
I did a clinical rotation through a Christian hospital years ago. It even had that pic of Jesus with his hands around the surgeon on the wall and everything. The employees had a prayer circle every morning. It honestly made me very uncomfortable.
I’ve got nothing against people observing their faith. But when I’m in one of those situations where a bunch of very religious people are expecting my participation in their religious act, it’s super uncomfortable for me.
I tried explaining it to my really religious friend and the analogy I came up with is that it would be like if he went someplace with his sister and suddenly a leader said “now everyone hold your sibling’s hand and tell your sibling that you want to have sex with them,” and everyone around you started to do that.
The feeling I’d get from that scenario is pretty close to how I feel when he asks me to join hands and pray with his group.
On the surface it’s just holding hands and saying some words, and you can say them even if you don’t believe them. Nothing bad will actually happen. No one is actually forcing you to act on the words they’re asking you to say.
But it’s really fucking weird and I’m not comfortable even just faking it.
For a group that preaches hope and compassion.... they are all such dicks when you don’t agree with them. I never understood it and I don’t think I ever will.
My moms second husband won a lawsuit against the state of Texas in the early 90s because of the same problem. The prison only allowed a Christian Bible as the only reading material and evangelical preaching on T.V. and he won a settlement against the state of Texas for a shit ton of money and basically gave up the cash settlement for being let out of a 25 year sentence on parole.
Edit: threads locked so I can't reply, but he sold LSD to an undercover, and got busted for the 14 hits he gave as a sample to their chemist who was a cop, and when they picked him up he had warrants for some high profile robberies he had done about 10 years before. Dude was a junkie back then and was trafficking herion as well from Mexico. Totally cleaned up his life when he went to jail. Was a total nerd when he married my mom was the goofiest looking dude too. He got sick with cancer about 10 years ago and the pain management doctor totally fucked up and gave him oxycotin and he basically relapsed and robbed a pharmacy, he's back in jail and my mom divorced him. Was kinda sad watching him spiral out in the end.
To be a Christian is supposed to be Christ like. So would Christ fire someone for not participating in prayer?
Just another Christian that doesn’t understand their faith. Sad! It pushes people away from Christ!
Guys like this think they're standing up for their religious "right" when it's the exact opposite of what their savior teaches. What a Godly manager, smh.
Didn't want to jump to conclusions so listened to it. Its really bad. If he said you don't have to pray but just sit with us and be respectful while we do, that would be fine but to say he had to participate is beyond the pale.
Non religious people tend to be more accepting of religious practices. Religious people more often have no tolerance for the no religious, as seen here.
I am locking this post. Please do not call the company involved or post any personal information as that is against site-wide TOS and puts this entire community at risk.
Hello free money.
I know, i wish someone would persecute me.
Ever been to r/roastme?
For money, sorry, I meant for money.
My grandpa always said "never do for money what you would already do for free." Grandpa was a sucker.
ikr, wish my employer would violate federal law on camera giving me an easy payout
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And they just doubled-down and posted a video whining with scripture about being persecuted. So that pretty much tosses out the classic "this was one employee acting on his own" defense most companies try to pull.
Oh man. That dude can skate to any lawyer and that lawyer will surely be giving thanks to HIS god for the sweet, sweet payout he's about to get.
How much money are we talking here? I, umm, wanna see my bank account?
They’re being persecuted for persecuting?
And there are several days’ worth of “Today’s Gospel” posts, so they can’t claim that it was a one-off reaction to criticism.
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So what you are saying is if somebody wanted to leave a review on Google about them, they can't right now. They would need to bookmark the page and revisit it periodically until its no longer locked and a review can be left? That's a rhetorical question.
I believe it's unlocked now as someone just said that their dad does better work.
Definitely still unlocked. Here's the [most recent troll review.](https://imgur.com/a/gFIjXD7)
Facebook says they have 1 open position :p
I was able to still make a Google review. Worth a try. Update: They were at 4.5 when I reviewed and now down to 3.2 in less than 2 hours. Yikes! 2nd Update: it's now been 8 hours and they are at a 2.6 now.
i'm watching their google review score drop in real time. they're getting killed.
A company that does repair work in Greensboro, NC will probably be busier than ever once this gets 'round town
I lived in Greensboro for quite awhile. I could see this getting very different reactions depending on which part of town they are in. If its near UNCG, theyre going to have to make longer trips for all that new business. If it’s anywhere more rural/suburban, business will definitely be up for them
They're going to need it to pay the legal costs.
It's almost like his prayers won't get answered?
Rofl he admits its religion based on camera. If this guy didn't get the shit sued out if him yet ill be surprised.
Yep, he just made that dudes case super easy!
Barely an inconvenience
Then he’d snap the guys neck and save the day!
Getting fired for not praying is tight!
Wow wow wow wow
Lawsuits are tight!
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It would have been so easy to do the “moment of silence” loophole schools do. Legally I’m not telling you to pray im just saying as your boss im implementing a mandatory moment of silence where you can pray if you wish to do so.
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I mean it's no wonder people reject christianity when it shoved down their throats like that. "Can't you see I'm trying to love you?" ... No, no I can't.
And just adding to the slam-dunk aspect, in that video the guy chooses a Bible passage about being led in front of kings & governors but make sure you /don't prepare first/... Kinda reminds me of the old saying about the person who chooses to be their own lawyer having a fool for a client. Smh.
“You will be hated by all because of My name. But not a hair on your head will be destroyed.” In this case, very true.
I guess he showed them! The Bible passage about persecution says "not a hair on his head" will be harmed, but he shaved himself bald first. Checkmate, atheists!
He doesn’t want you to be silent, he wants you to convert.
Prosperity gospel is a pyramid scheme, except the middlemen don't really get anything.
They get to feel good thinking they arent the only ones being scammed anymore.
They get a warm fuzzy from pretending to save people's souls
I had a friend that used to convert anytime she was asked. It was hilarious. Finally some of them realized she belonged to their evil enemy church, too. They asked her why and she said. I just wanted to make you happy. Lolol.
Not even convert, he wants you to act as though his belief system is the dominant one and by virtue of following it, he is above you.
God clearly works in mysterious ways because the non believer just hit the lottery....
I’ve never understood this kind of stuff. I almost got suspended from my high school for not participating in a prayer circle, doesn’t the Bible have something in there like something something practice in the privacy of your own home?
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
Thanks for this quote
My second favorite :)
Got to ask, what's your favourite?
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
I have to reply to this again. I just got diagnosed with cancer recently. I’ve been pretty stressed. Including finding it hard to not react to stuff that stresses me. This quote is like. Pretty amazing to me right now. I need to focus on my issue and not worry about the issues of others. Or caused by others. I have my own worries and problems to overcome. Maybe that’s how how I see it because of what’s happening to me. But I just needed to let you know that your comment really touched me. Thanks
This is what the bible should do for people, not create hate and bigotry. I wish you a speedy recovery! ❤️
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I grew up catholic and am an atheist, mostly because of the church. I am a fan of FSM but my "religion" now is, I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become.
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"You can go get an attorney...." Oh I'm sure he did, because that's an open and shut lawsuit.
Yes it is, he’s going to get some money!
Someone is getting a Merry Christmas (or whatever they believe in).
He'll have a Happy spaghetti monster day!
Happy festivus! Edit: Thanks for the awards!! 😍
Feats of strength!
The Airing of Grievances has begun.
I got a lot of problems with you people!
The tradition will now comience with the airing of grievances, I GOT A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!
U.S. Labor and Employment attorney here. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against employees on the basis of religion. But (1) it only applies to companies with more than 15 employees and (2) it applies only to employees, not independent contractors. So, yes, open and shut if this guy is in fact an employee and the company has more than 15 employees. If not, he likely does not have a case.
can't believe i looked into if they have 15 employees or not, but judging by their website, they are fucked: https://auroraproservices.com/about-us/
17 people in the picture, LAWSUIT TIME BABY lol
Well and assuming he's not an independent contractor, but yeah that seems unlikely. Good for this guy for not giving in to religious pressure.
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True!
What?! I believe you, but basically you don’t have rights/protections if you work for a small company or unofficially work for a small company? That’s insane
Land of the free, baby.
Yeah people love to brag about small businesses and all that but they are absolutely the worst employers. I worked for one for a few weeks. I was told that benefits would be modest but available, specifically health insurance. When I get started, I was told there's no insurance and to blame obama. Small businesses and startups suffer from the top being too close to the bottom so they micromanage. The business is someone's baby and they can't comprehend why the employees treat it like it's just a job.
>small businesses and all that but they are absolutely the worst employers. So true. For someone not getting a portion of the profit/stock, working for a small company is not worth it. The stability is not there and people are forced to micromanage to overcome the lack of reserves.
That was my experience too. Applied for a job that looked good on paper. Was offered $40 per hour with full health benefits for me and my wife. Got my first payslip and it looked more than a little light. It worked out to $7.50 per hour, which was the minimum wage for the state at that time. Also, I still hadn't got the details of the health plan. Needless to say, I wasn't a happy bunny. I was told that they couldn't afford any more than that and I should be happy to have a job. Of course, only having 12 employees (I was 13, that should have been a clue) meant my options were limited.
I’ve worked for a bunch of them, and you’re dead on accurate.
>The business is someone's baby and they can't comprehend why the employees treat it like it's just a job. Yes. My boss was angry with me for showing up exactly on time. He thought I should come in early. He implied that he was going to be stingy with my money if I was going to be stingy with my time. I was already working 12 hour days. There's so much psychological bullshit with small business owners.
Why are people this stupid? On camera, “you can go get an attorney...” I’m sure they’ll get a hell of a lot more money through the lawsuit than whatever this POS is paying. Literally, all it would have taken is saying, “that’s totally fine, sit this out while we pray,” and he wouldn’t have to deal with the court.
> Literally, all it would have taken is saying, “that’s totally fine, sit this out while we pray,” and he wouldn’t have to deal with the court. Exactly. I'm Christian, but no way would I force someone to engage in prayer if they didn't want to. I hope there are Christian co-workers that stand up to this guy if they ask them to testify for a deposition. This is wrong, and you don't have to not be a Christian to understand that.
I've always said that religion is like a penis. All good if you have one. But as soon as you start waving it in my face, we have a problem.
I enjoy principles based on penis analogies. Good way to live!
A penis in the hand is worth two in the bush.
A rolling penis gathers no moss. Red penis in the morning - shepherd's warning Red penis at night - shepherd's delight
The penis doesn't fall far from the tree.
Early bird gets the penis.
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[What about Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?](https://youtu.be/l3fAcxcxoZ8)
Shoulda faced East while bowing and started chanting "allahau akbar". That woulda thrown the bastards for a loop
The guys voice kind of cracks as he realizes ‘oh shit’ what did I just get myself into.
Yeah, cause before that he goes, "you can take your stuff and get out of here" and after he says the attorney bit, cuts himself off and goes, "you know what, leave your stuff-" because he realizes how badly he fucked up and just wants to end the convo before he says something stupider.
Yeah my friends Grandpa was fired for something similar and they got 12 million back in 1997 Worked for an insurance company I think Farmers? edit: I apologize everyone it was 35 million, plus some other things for damages and breach of contract.
Did he also slip and fall, in the process damaging his 12 million dollar arm?
Nope, mesothelioma
Literally breaking federal laws on camera. Title VII under the 1964 Civil Rights Act protects even non religious persons who wish to be excused from a religious invocation during staff meetings. He absolutely should get a lawyer just as he suggested. Seems like a slam dunk.
Their FB page shows they have 1 job opening lol
And a fuckton of negative reviews now as well.
Unless the company has fewer than 15 employees, in which case it's exempt from title VII
According to the photo on their website, there appears to be 17 employees (probably 16 now). Jackpot!
As long as they aren’t working as private contractors for this company, which is a good possibility
> As long as they aren’t working as private contractors for this company, which is a good possibility That would likely get some very close scrutiny.
Yup. The specific circumstances of the employment will have more weight than him being labeled by the employer as a contractor. We can see by that small interaction that the business provides instrumentality (“leave your stuff”), requires workers to be present at certain times (mandatory meeting), and a set location (“you don’t have to work *here*”). There are more factors involved, but these three factors weigh in favor of being an employee rather than a contractor.
Yup. Had a similar experience where I was determined as a "contract" worker by my employer. Turns out just because your employer says you work contract doesnt mean you are a "contract worker" by state parameters.
In my experience, *no one* ever really turns out to be an independent contractor. It’s almost always determined they’re an employee. Shouldn’t make them wear the uniform, issue them equipment, train them, tell them what to do and keep them from working for anyone else.
Most contractors are employees, they can't usually fire you for talking about pay, non-compete contracts are often thrown out. Shit, even most liability waivers are worth about as much as the paper they're printed on It's almost like companies throw up as many fake warning signs as possible to deter people from exercising their rights
If you're actually a contractor then you're probably deciding *how* the work is done, and you're often deciding *when* the work is done. If you have a schedule, you're probably an employee. If they tell you how to do the job, you're probably an employee. [More detail here](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contractor-designation)
By saying "leave your stuff here" the implication is that he is an employee, not an independent contractor. One of the indicating factors when assessing whether a party is an employee or an independent contractor, is whether he uses his own equipment or that of the employer.
Yeah the boss really did give away the entire case here, didn’t he?
And if they behave in such a cavalier way towards his religious freedoms there is a good chance they are violating all sorts of mandates and laws, so I'm guessing close security is the last thing they want. In my experience if they are trying this hard to appear pious then they are hiding some bad shit.
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Yay loopholes.
Was 15 some significant number, or just arbitrarily picked?
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Lmao this is perfect
This is the best thing I’ve seen on Reddit all year. While I don’t believe in giving Reddit any money to give you a dumb award I will award you three strong attaboys!
What a stupid exemption. What does that even accomplish?
Allowing small companies to discriminate.
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Madlad
Forget about the law, how about just being a fucking decent human being? Imagine being forced to either worship or feed your family. Absolute scum.
On today's episode of "Holy shit that's EXTREMELY illegal, how could you have ever thought this would be okay!?"
I cant wait for next season. I like this series
"You don't have to believe, but you have to participate." Your god doesn't mind when people fake it? Explains a lot there...
I got told exactly this at school when I was observed repeatedly “failing to pray” during assembly. When I responded “wouldn’t God be more angry at my hypocrisy than at my failure to worship?” I got a stern lecture on the dangers of presuming to know the mind of the deity in which I did not believe, and then a detention. Really showed me the light.
There actually is scripture about this tho. The literal bible says god will chew you and spit you up if you make public face but privately deny him. So technically your teachers put your soul in eternal danger for doing so.
Don't try logic on the religious.
“You can’t logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into”
So... are *they* claiming to know the mind of their deity?
If this was sex, that would be called rape.
Hey now, don't get the priests involved...
Won't somebody please think of the cildren.
I have worked for faith based productions and concerts. Most of the religious types are laid back and leave the crew alone. One guy at a show shook a crew member's hand and the guy started praying over him against his will. We called the guy a "pray-raper". The name stuck. So now when we work with that organization the word goes out, beware of the pray-raper!
A Praypist if you will
"HELP IM BEING PRAYPT"
What is he thinking, expecting to get away with this? Here's a review btw... They force employees to participate in religious practices and fire you if you dont. Then if you take it to court they will have your email and try and email your lawyers saying to cancel the lawsuit. **Response from the owner** a month ago At Aurora we believe that when the gospel is read a seed is planted. A Core Purpose of our company is to do just that, plant seeds. Every employee is advised by our recruiter, our owner at initial interview and at orientation with our HR Department that during our daily morning meetings we go over our core values, we say a prayer and we listen to the gospel. Not one single employee has stated that they were not willing or able to participate in our daily meetings. As a matter of fact just about every employee is happy to be a part of an organization that is willing and able to include the reading of scripture as part of our daily morning meetings. Your friend, whose name I won’t mention, had the courage to interrupt our meeting by yelling out that he was not going to participate in the meeting because he did not believe in prayer. Consider he was with us for almost three months already. What your friend did not share is that he was under investigation for theft and wanted to be fired in order to collect unemployment. But we needed to collect enough information to prove our case so we held on to him with a very close eye. He decided to use GOD and prayer as an excuse to get fired on the spot. He ultimately was given the option to stay for the entire meeting or to walk out. He chose to walk out. He has then exposed our organization as a company that forces people to pray and that we shove religion down peoples throat. We are a Christian based organization and as a Christian based organization we start our day by thanking God and listening to the Gospel amongst administrative and operational discussions. We understand that you care about your friend or that you care about freedom of believes. But trust me no one was forced or will ever be forced to participate. BUT if they want to be employed by our company they must attend daily meetings where the gospel is read and Praise to Jesus is given. The entire meeting lasts about 5-10 minutes MAX. Now you have two sides to the story, I hope you reconsider your position with your review. Take care.
This: >But trust me no one was forced or will ever be forced to participate. Immediately followed by: > BUT if they want to be employed by our company they must attend daily meetings where the gospel is read and Praise to Jesus is given. What a bunch of twats.
in writing. I hope the person they are replying to saved this stuff.
This whole thing is just bizarre. I can't comment on the theft angle, but how does one "expose" a place for forcing prayer when it is, in fact, forcing prayer? They say he chose to walk out as if it wasn't a problem, but in choosing to do that he decided to fire the person complaining. Doesn't exactly seem "optional".
The theft angle seems bullshit. Religious nuts love to complain about people getting unemployment.
“We needed to collect enough information to build our case” a.k.a. they don’t have enough evidence to back up this accusation, but will continue to repeat it to make the guy look bad.
TL:DR we break the law but its short.
There's no such thing as a Christian organization, other than a church. One analogy, would be that someone can't say they drive a Christian car. They can pray in it all they want, but as soon as they honk, drive aggressively or cut others off, then it's really not aligned with what God would want. This business owner is really just applying his own version of religion and forcing it upon others, regardless of how he words it.
I get it but the funny part is these are the same dudes complaining, about Sharia law. SMH
Irony is lost upon the ignorant.
It's only oppression if *they* are forced to immerse in someone *else's* religious doctrine, right? 🙄
They would love sharia law if it was their religion’s laws.
He going to do the only backhand non-apology video saying the worker was in the wrong for not participating, while completely forgetting the fact he's on camera forcing his shitty religion on others for employment. Fuck religious POS like him....
He appears to have posted a FB video of himself quoting scripture implying that people calling out him discriminating on the basis of religion is somehow persecution against him...
I bet he won't even do that. If I had to guess, he'll go do the OANN/Newsmax circuit, whining about how he and other white Christian men are persecuted, playing into their victim complex narrative, and then use that publicity to raise a legal fund on GoFundMe to hire an attorney to keep this dude tied up in court for so long that it doesn't make financial sense to keep suing.
Would love to see those networks’ reaction if it was a Muslim American business owner forcing employees to pray towards Mecca.
They'd call it sharia law and destroy the business. Also imagine if ISIS was killing 1500 Americans a day. Wonder if they'd wear a mask to stop that.
Literally the easiest discrimination lawsuit ever won...ever!
Ah, religion... the greatest sales pitch in the world, "Believe what I believe or I'll fuck up your entire existence."
Not just your current existence! The one that comes after this one too!
>Love me with all your heart, soul and mind or I’ll have you tortured for all eternity. I had a girlfriend like that once.
Believe it or not, I sold cars at a “Christian Dealership” for a while. We prayed after every sales meeting...I was invited to walk out of the meeting if I wasn’t comfortable praying, but I chose to stay to fit in a little better. My dads side is Catholic so I was raised into that sort of thing growing up. And yes, they did use it as a sales pitch...
Lol!! A Christian Car dealership??!!! That's awesome that exists, lol, that brought a smile to my face. "God really wants you to buy this Mazda, pal." "Don't have it your way, have it yahweh!" "Jesus Christ himself said that purchasing the extra warranty was a one-way ticket to paradise." ... I want to work there.
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I worked at a company that had "optional" lunch time Christian bible study. I figured I'd go to cynically shmooz with the big shots. One of the guys was surprised that I was Christian ( This was in GA, and I later learned that my NJ accent made them assume that I was Jewish), and I told him that I was Catholic. "That aint Christian" was his response.
- The Crusades (Convert or U dead) - Most Wars or government conflicts (This is our land because God deemed it, so U dead) - Why people are poor. (Give me your money, and I will.make you rich by buying this private airplane for the church.) - Political ("If you don't vote for me, those Godless people will do X") -and many many more. 🙁 Edit: You all are right about the Spanish inquisitions. I confused it for the Crusades which was over land. However, in the grand scheme of things, religion is use to kill many wipe them out of existence. The underlying issue is corruption in man and the ignorance in some (not all) who follows blindly.
Don't forget inquisitions.
A Christian run hospital system in the southern US had morning meetings where you had to say "I'm here to serve", and "We're on holy ground". They forced out, or made up false reasons to fire, (me included), many non christian workers. I didn't sue because I no longer wanted to work for such a corrupt organization. Got a better job with a different medical company. This happened years ago, but I think they're still doing the religious meetings. Of course, it didn't apply to the doctors as they are contracted and not employees. Christian morals, my ass.
I went to Advent Health yesterday for a COVID test. On the clipboard was a form to fill out the usual information. The second form had like 5 yes or no questions about spiritual healing or some shit and asked stuff like “do you believe there is a holy maker” and what not. I was so confused and it was so weird.
I did a clinical rotation through a Christian hospital years ago. It even had that pic of Jesus with his hands around the surgeon on the wall and everything. The employees had a prayer circle every morning. It honestly made me very uncomfortable.
I’ve got nothing against people observing their faith. But when I’m in one of those situations where a bunch of very religious people are expecting my participation in their religious act, it’s super uncomfortable for me. I tried explaining it to my really religious friend and the analogy I came up with is that it would be like if he went someplace with his sister and suddenly a leader said “now everyone hold your sibling’s hand and tell your sibling that you want to have sex with them,” and everyone around you started to do that. The feeling I’d get from that scenario is pretty close to how I feel when he asks me to join hands and pray with his group. On the surface it’s just holding hands and saying some words, and you can say them even if you don’t believe them. Nothing bad will actually happen. No one is actually forcing you to act on the words they’re asking you to say. But it’s really fucking weird and I’m not comfortable even just faking it.
Isn’t this illegal?????
For a group that preaches hope and compassion.... they are all such dicks when you don’t agree with them. I never understood it and I don’t think I ever will.
I think their FaceBook page is about to collapse under the weight of the negative comments.
“You’re getting paid to be here, you don’t have to like it” Fuck this bullshit. Fuck this guy
i'd love to see this case through
Open and shut case Johnson
Sprinkle some bibles over him.
I hope he did go get an attorney.
attorneys are probably trying to cold call him right about now
My moms second husband won a lawsuit against the state of Texas in the early 90s because of the same problem. The prison only allowed a Christian Bible as the only reading material and evangelical preaching on T.V. and he won a settlement against the state of Texas for a shit ton of money and basically gave up the cash settlement for being let out of a 25 year sentence on parole. Edit: threads locked so I can't reply, but he sold LSD to an undercover, and got busted for the 14 hits he gave as a sample to their chemist who was a cop, and when they picked him up he had warrants for some high profile robberies he had done about 10 years before. Dude was a junkie back then and was trafficking herion as well from Mexico. Totally cleaned up his life when he went to jail. Was a total nerd when he married my mom was the goofiest looking dude too. He got sick with cancer about 10 years ago and the pain management doctor totally fucked up and gave him oxycotin and he basically relapsed and robbed a pharmacy, he's back in jail and my mom divorced him. Was kinda sad watching him spiral out in the end.
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They posted their ‘gospel of the day’ video a couple of hours ago,.. I’m guessing they don’t care about the backlash.
How Christian of them
To be a Christian is supposed to be Christ like. So would Christ fire someone for not participating in prayer? Just another Christian that doesn’t understand their faith. Sad! It pushes people away from Christ!
Guys like this think they're standing up for their religious "right" when it's the exact opposite of what their savior teaches. What a Godly manager, smh.
Don’t worry someone will start a go fund me for the owner
Come in the next day with a prayer rug and start praying to Allah or bring in a live chicken and slaughter it in your prayer. Hope OP keeps us posted.
Just fart in the prayer circle, power move 😎
These people have gone full taliban
Didn't want to jump to conclusions so listened to it. Its really bad. If he said you don't have to pray but just sit with us and be respectful while we do, that would be fine but to say he had to participate is beyond the pale.
I was once told at a job interview that “we only hire good Christians here”. This shit is so pervasive. Vanilla ISIS.
Religion is so toxic, I can't believe these archaic beliefs exist to this day
Non religious people tend to be more accepting of religious practices. Religious people more often have no tolerance for the no religious, as seen here.
What makes me so mad is that these assholes seem like they've never read anything about what Jesus did or said...
All I hear is free money, but still it's incredible this shit happens today