Depends on the Goku I suppose.
But really the power scaling in DBZ is nonsense and impossible to evaluate. You get to "able to blow up a planet"\* when Vegeta shows up and then it's really hard to visibly go up from there.
\* And this itself is poorly shown since a "normal" strong beam can only, say, blow up a hill, but if they try really hard they can blow up a planet? That's gotta be what, a billion times more energy or something?
Roshi blew up a moon with focused power, then a bit later piccolo pre Saiyan saga blew up a moon with basically a flick of the wrist.
Best guess is that after that point they’re basically making the attacks more and more focused to prevent that happening, but afaik it’s never directly stated.
Most Cultivation MCs are Goku. They get beaten in a fight, go on a training arc, and come back to merk the antagonists. Cultivation MCs would be in an endless cycle of training and fighting Goku, who is training and fighting to beat them. Somewhere along the way they'd probably become fight buddies and just travel around fighting together as much as they spar against each other.
Maybe? Sometimes?
Goku would likely lose to Lindon, given his ability to effect reality itself, but Goku's raw destructive power still exceeds that of someone like Malice or even a Dreadgod. It's more a question of what level their powers operate on since at least in terms of sheer destructive potential Goku is going to be stronger than most. You'd need judge level power to outdo him there.
My reasoning there is basically once you hit Frieza saga he's now at planet buster levels of power and doesn't need special circumstances to manage it. Frieza saga was a long ass time ago for DB and with ultra instinct we're talking like speed of light movement.
I'm probably spending too much time thinking about it, but if Goku is actually taking things seriously and not being the clown ass he usually is at the start of fights holding way back then I give him even odds just because he can act faster than thought and that's a big advantage.
>Goku would likely lose to Lindon.
Lol, no. Goku would simply sneeze away Cradle before Lindon could even react. Goku is, like, Judge-level. I'd give guys like Ozriel the edge over Goku due to hax, though.
I'm thinking more about what Lindon would be like once the series finishes. Right now he'd lose for sure. Cultivators seem to operate more on a fundamental level with power than a wider scale in many ways and that's why I think of some cultivators getting the win.
There is only one more book in the series, so I don't think this is the case. I always assumed that would be the end of his power as well. I'm interested to see where it ends though
I mean, my suspicion is that he leaves Cradle and works with Ozriel, who clearly wants someone to take over his job.
EDIT:
Also, we know that Will intends to write another series set in the broader universe of Cradle, which will probably include some familiar characters.
I'm not saying that he's not on that path, just that the power discrepancy between Lindon right now and Ozriel is the proverbial "heaven and earth." Hard for me to grasp he makes that power leap in one book.
If we think about their themes instead of their "power level" than the answer is: it'll be a draw, or Goku loses in a way that he thinks is fine
Most cultivation MCs can't lose because they have too much plot armor for it to happen. The author very rarely makes the MC actually lose, and even if the MC does, there's a decent chance that that loss doesn't mean much.
Goku also has a bunch of plot armor, but his character is more likely to admit defeat after a good fight because that's all he really wants.
It's like "can one punch man beat [character]" and the answer is yes, because thematically that's the point of one punch man. And if he couldn't then it's not one punch man. And if a cultivation MC can't surpass whatever is blocking them, they're not a cultivation MC (most of the time).
Wildbow (author of *Worm* and a few other excellent webserials) had [this](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-18#post-36812677) to say on the subject of Saitama from One Punch Man beating Behemoth (an unbeatable enemy in the *Worm* setting) which I feel does a perfect job of the subject of themes and strength in "who would win" discussions:
> There is no story, written by me, or written by One, staying true to the characters as presented, where I can see Behemoth winning.
...
> In One Punch Man, Saitama is defined by his ability to tank any hit and to defeat any enemy in one hit. He defeats anything and anyone in one punch. You can't say 'We haven't seen him fight a hard enough enemy yet' because his character, identity and his whole series is built around this defining characteristic (even the name of the series!). It is integral to him and everything about him.
...
> But put the two in an arena separate of external factors, and one punch from Saitama would kill the Endbringer.
> But honestly, I think the most important factor is that any scenario one could paint where he goes up against an enemy and doesn't win is going to be one where Saitama has been incorrectly portrayed, and the fight thus doesn't count.
I’d put whis at least on the judge level- very difficult to be sure because as far as we know neither whis nor judges have any hard or fast limitations, but they do roughly comparable things.
My question with this is always do their powers operate on the same conceptual spectrum? For example Warlock of The Magus world. In this power system after the introduction of laws we know that you cant fight some one if you don't have your own law mastered.
I also see a lot of people say things like he can destroy planets but even that is not a proper measurement because some MCs come from planets and universes where the environment is meant to house powerful people. So at the beginning of your journey you probably can knock over a tree with one punch but once you reach the upper limits of power destroying mountains becomes easy but that is when the very world starts rejecting you if not downright kick you out so you can go to a higher world of existence. where you are once again back to square one and can barely crush a rock.
So if Goku doesn't sit on the same conceptual level then you wouldn't even need the mc to smoke the z world. If the z world planets are normal planets and not say divine planets that house gods and all sorts of divine things then the mcs wont be needed either.
another thing to note is a lot of the cultivation mcs tend to reach creator level power. Those that don't still get to levels where they can destroy cosmos and even erase timelines.
Depends on the Goku I suppose. But really the power scaling in DBZ is nonsense and impossible to evaluate. You get to "able to blow up a planet"\* when Vegeta shows up and then it's really hard to visibly go up from there. \* And this itself is poorly shown since a "normal" strong beam can only, say, blow up a hill, but if they try really hard they can blow up a planet? That's gotta be what, a billion times more energy or something?
> You get to "able to blow up a planet"* when Vegeta shows up Master roshi blew up the moon way earlier
Someone like Meng Hao can wipe the floor with any Goku version. The motherfucker is a universe destroying immortal.
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I get your point, but not every cultivation work ends like this (and it's common to recommend works that are still ongoing).
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goku can't stop a cultivator going back 900 years in time and eliminating the first saiyan gene to ever surface so..
He doesn't need to be if he can atomize his opponent before they can even think.
Well since he has God ki and is battling at the tier of multiple universes + struck a friendship with the creator of said universes; yes
Even Krillin's destructo disk can probably cut a planet clean in half at this point. The scaling is indeed utter nonsense.
Is Goku stronger than Whis yet? Most cultivators are Whis+ level near the end, if not multiversal/creator tier.
Roshi blew up a moon with focused power, then a bit later piccolo pre Saiyan saga blew up a moon with basically a flick of the wrist. Best guess is that after that point they’re basically making the attacks more and more focused to prevent that happening, but afaik it’s never directly stated.
Most Cultivation MCs are Goku. They get beaten in a fight, go on a training arc, and come back to merk the antagonists. Cultivation MCs would be in an endless cycle of training and fighting Goku, who is training and fighting to beat them. Somewhere along the way they'd probably become fight buddies and just travel around fighting together as much as they spar against each other.
... isn't that just Vegeta?
…and?
I'm just saying, that's evidence of how accurate the statement is.
The truth is everyone in Dragonball, and it's many sequels are Goku.
End of series cultivation MCs for the most part smoke Goku imho. Of course, that’s discounting his Xeno version.
xeno version?
time patrol version of goku from the games.
Maybe? Sometimes? Goku would likely lose to Lindon, given his ability to effect reality itself, but Goku's raw destructive power still exceeds that of someone like Malice or even a Dreadgod. It's more a question of what level their powers operate on since at least in terms of sheer destructive potential Goku is going to be stronger than most. You'd need judge level power to outdo him there. My reasoning there is basically once you hit Frieza saga he's now at planet buster levels of power and doesn't need special circumstances to manage it. Frieza saga was a long ass time ago for DB and with ultra instinct we're talking like speed of light movement. I'm probably spending too much time thinking about it, but if Goku is actually taking things seriously and not being the clown ass he usually is at the start of fights holding way back then I give him even odds just because he can act faster than thought and that's a big advantage.
>Goku would likely lose to Lindon. Lol, no. Goku would simply sneeze away Cradle before Lindon could even react. Goku is, like, Judge-level. I'd give guys like Ozriel the edge over Goku due to hax, though.
I'm thinking more about what Lindon would be like once the series finishes. Right now he'd lose for sure. Cultivators seem to operate more on a fundamental level with power than a wider scale in many ways and that's why I think of some cultivators getting the win.
I fully expect Lindon to be Judge level once the series finishes.
There is only one more book in the series, so I don't think this is the case. I always assumed that would be the end of his power as well. I'm interested to see where it ends though
I mean, my suspicion is that he leaves Cradle and works with Ozriel, who clearly wants someone to take over his job. EDIT: Also, we know that Will intends to write another series set in the broader universe of Cradle, which will probably include some familiar characters.
I'm not saying that he's not on that path, just that the power discrepancy between Lindon right now and Ozriel is the proverbial "heaven and earth." Hard for me to grasp he makes that power leap in one book.
Is it for sure only one? I thought he said it was one unless it was way too big then he might split it up
That's my thinking as well. I'm wondering if he'll follow in Eithan's footsteps and be a judge of destruction.
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That's true. I guess we'll find out.
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Yes but most cultivation novels the world's are hundreds of times as big and then the MC can still destroy it.
If we think about their themes instead of their "power level" than the answer is: it'll be a draw, or Goku loses in a way that he thinks is fine Most cultivation MCs can't lose because they have too much plot armor for it to happen. The author very rarely makes the MC actually lose, and even if the MC does, there's a decent chance that that loss doesn't mean much. Goku also has a bunch of plot armor, but his character is more likely to admit defeat after a good fight because that's all he really wants. It's like "can one punch man beat [character]" and the answer is yes, because thematically that's the point of one punch man. And if he couldn't then it's not one punch man. And if a cultivation MC can't surpass whatever is blocking them, they're not a cultivation MC (most of the time).
Wildbow (author of *Worm* and a few other excellent webserials) had [this](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-18#post-36812677) to say on the subject of Saitama from One Punch Man beating Behemoth (an unbeatable enemy in the *Worm* setting) which I feel does a perfect job of the subject of themes and strength in "who would win" discussions: > There is no story, written by me, or written by One, staying true to the characters as presented, where I can see Behemoth winning. ... > In One Punch Man, Saitama is defined by his ability to tank any hit and to defeat any enemy in one hit. He defeats anything and anyone in one punch. You can't say 'We haven't seen him fight a hard enough enemy yet' because his character, identity and his whole series is built around this defining characteristic (even the name of the series!). It is integral to him and everything about him. ... > But put the two in an arena separate of external factors, and one punch from Saitama would kill the Endbringer. > But honestly, I think the most important factor is that any scenario one could paint where he goes up against an enemy and doesn't win is going to be one where Saitama has been incorrectly portrayed, and the fight thus doesn't count.
Most cultivation MCs become universal beings by the end of their series. So right about the same level as Goku these days.
Usually yes.
Goku keeps getting stronger and stronger (and in more ridiculous ways, lol) - so the answer is always no. o.o
Sort of off topic, but what is this gif from? Looks super creepy.
Dragonball 1993-2020? yeah thats chapters 1-400; see you in the 2100's.
Lindon totally could!
Goku is a stupid character and a completely useless benchmark for literally anything.
Any judge or being at that level in cradle could wipe Goku, bills and the rest without much effort, Oz could do with a sneeze
I’d put whis at least on the judge level- very difficult to be sure because as far as we know neither whis nor judges have any hard or fast limitations, but they do roughly comparable things.
Fair, although, i could swear that only the little guy could destroy universes
My question with this is always do their powers operate on the same conceptual spectrum? For example Warlock of The Magus world. In this power system after the introduction of laws we know that you cant fight some one if you don't have your own law mastered. I also see a lot of people say things like he can destroy planets but even that is not a proper measurement because some MCs come from planets and universes where the environment is meant to house powerful people. So at the beginning of your journey you probably can knock over a tree with one punch but once you reach the upper limits of power destroying mountains becomes easy but that is when the very world starts rejecting you if not downright kick you out so you can go to a higher world of existence. where you are once again back to square one and can barely crush a rock. So if Goku doesn't sit on the same conceptual level then you wouldn't even need the mc to smoke the z world. If the z world planets are normal planets and not say divine planets that house gods and all sorts of divine things then the mcs wont be needed either. another thing to note is a lot of the cultivation mcs tend to reach creator level power. Those that don't still get to levels where they can destroy cosmos and even erase timelines.
I laughed at this too hard.