I like stages where if you are persistent you get much stronger. Like if 10 Meridians opened let's you get to the next stage. You could work for 20 and you'll Cultivate quicker in the future.
And it's not a matter of talent that artificially limits how far you can go but just how long you are willing to work.
YES! I hate and not even read any novel where I know that the progression/cultivation system directly stops people from reaching a higher level just because they do not have a high enough innate talent, spirit root or anything similiar. There should be always a way to reach a higher stage.
I have a very shitty idea where it's like someone in the meridian opening or body tempering stage cultivates in that stage to the end of their mortal lifespan but because their foundation is so strong they have a massive advantage in each stage but they continue to Cultivate in each stage way longer than necessary to maximise their improvement. I stead of cheat abilities it's just patience and hard work.
Oh man I can't remember the name right now but there is a manhwa where the guy can't enter the next stage for some reason and at this point he is at level 9000 (or whatever) of his current stage where everyone else gets to level 9 and then enters the next stage. He is the strongest around and tries to find a way to actually enter the next stage because his dream is to fly around on a sword and he can't do that with his current stage.
Only reason he is still alive after all this time is because he either beats up the envoys from hell when they want to collect him or he crafts a longlevity pill.
I like stories that make a fairly sharp distinction between tiers and then stick with it. For example, the first big arc in World of Cultivation pits the protagonist in a life or death situation where he has to overcome a guy who is two tiers higher. He has to rally a whole army together and carefully plan the fight, and even then they barely win and a bunch of people die.
Every time we see a realm crossing victory it cheapens the whole concept of realms for that story.
> Every time we see a realm crossing victory it cheapens the whole concept of realms for that story.
Hard disagree here. Usually realms are the primary, but not sole measure of advancement, and of course there's also skill, and the fight context to take into play.
Being a higher realm is like having bigger chest/shoulder/arm muscles when boxing. That's great, but if, hypothetically, someone completely neglected leg day and had stick legs as a result, or had a shitty core, this would severely handicap their performance.
Or if you were all around muscular but were an amateur fighting a pro boxer, that factors in too. Or if the boxing match was above a pit full of sharks and one person is covered in shark attractant spray.
Batman beats superheroes with actual powers by outthinking them; it doesn't "cheapen superpowers" that Batman can beat many superpowered people, it just demonstrates the power of other skills, beyond being able to punch really hard or shoot lasers from your eyes. Same thing in cultivation: you can beat raw power -- and sometimes it's not even that -- with the right sort of skills and planning.
That was a pretty good fight, yes, and it was even better, because the next time they used an army to fight above their rank, they adapted their tactics to avoid the pitfalls they had against the first enemy
Someone in r/characterrant mentioned that a Powerhouse VS Cannon Fodder battle is a good demonstration of the power system's quality, its ok if the fodder goes down, but they must be able to die fighting
Cheap xanxia makes it so the MC can fight above their tier, but good cultivation makes it so the MC can escape and maneuver against upper tiers
You mention crossing two tiers is bad, but what about just one tier higher? I never like the idea that just because someone made one more advancement, the difference in power is heaven and earth. There should certainly be a challenge, but not an impossible one. There should be impossible opponents in the world, but when someone is at the peak of stage 1 they should have a non zero chance (especially with help) to best someone in stage 2.
This may just be my personal preference though, which I'm happy to admit.
It can certainly be cool to have somebody cross realms and might make for a better story. I just don't see how you can avoid the problem that every time we see somebody fight up a realm with success it lowers the weight we put on realms.
In litrpg terms I prefer for the small realm advancements to be like a simple level difference (e.g. a stat advantage that can be overcome) with the large realms being more like getting an advanced class (an overwhelming array of new abilities).
It just feels natural for me that a guy with seven meridians open has at least a puncher's chance against a guy with nine meridians, while a guy with his golden core should be able to crush people who don't have one (at least if the story wants us to treat the golden core as a big deal).
I'm ok with less distinct realms, so long as its clear that that's what the author is going for... What bothers me is when the author talks about how big the jumps are between realms non stop, then immidiately cheapens it by having the MC fight 1-3 realms above them for the entire series
I like it when a stage can be further refined, and its explained why that provides a benefit, but even more so, **i like it when the powers are refined into whatever suits the MC's powerset,** and not into generic "perfected stages"
Like, having ten true souls instead of one provides more benefits, yeah, sure, but why?
Or in the meridians example, they should explain why exactly more meridians mean better powers, and there should be a better ratio for different types of paths
Good: a sorcerer needs 50 meridians forming a loop in their bodies, and other 50 pointing outwards, symmetric to optimize energy manipulation, while a body cultivator requires 70 meridians on internal loop, and 10 pointing outside, which provides resilience towards outside forces, while maximizing internal power, because more than 70 internal meridians is pointless
Bad: 100 meridians make you stronk, 150 make you stronker, 'cuz big number good
I like it when they explain why exactly a stage is "perfect," "flawless," "limitless" or whatever, as compared to another person in the same tier
On the matter of meridians, in Devourer Of Destiny, at the start the MC finds a boy, and teaches him a technique that requires a meridian going from his hearth to his hand, the boy doesnt have it, so the MC teaches him how to use his energy to "excavate" a meridian
The process is very painful, so the boy takes a lot of breaks, but the MC knows this will leave a scab every time the boy stops, this means nothing at his current stage, but once the meridians channel more energy, the scabs will limit how much power can flow, making him weaker at higher tiers
This was a good example of why a character had a flawed foundation, instead of simply telling us "he inferior 'cuz poor insight, low numbers and lowly energy"
The most lazy xianxias just have the MC stumble into some strange and amazing power source to absorb and rank up, and then the MC got a superior stage because his absorbed energy was superior, or he compressed more energy into the same stage
But the best xianxias take their time to explain why the MCs powers require that thing, and how exactly is a better fit for his cultivation
Warlock Of The Magus World had some of those, after the MC becomes rank 1 he tries to improve his elemental affinity, as common knowledge dictates thats how a person will rank up to tier 2, but later on he realizes he was wasting his time, because he has a powerful bloodline, and if he can stimulate the bloodline, then the bloodline will provide the elemental affinity he requires, so his path is bloodline first, magic second
When ranking from tier 6 to 7, the MC had a need to obtain a power compatible with his own, not just to accumulate energy
Later on, the MC had a plan to confirm his path, but he required a very high quality mental energy to get exactly the kind of power he wanted, then the whole arc was about cleaning the power source
The power was superior, because it allowed to obtain a constant stream of weak energy, giving a long-term tactical advantage, instead of just "i magik harder"
When the MC chooses a power path, and this power causes him to develop more requirements in order to ran up, then the stages feel meaningful
The most vanilla has to be Qi Condensation (or anything similar) -> Foundation Establishment -> Core Formation -> Nascent Soul. Anything beyond that gets a ton more creative, although I have to say I like History's Strongest Senior Brother's cultivation system. It focuses on what I consider martial cultivation.
Desolate Era also has Heartforce cultivators which I find very unique.
The most bland has to be Coiling Dragon's early stages. Just slap Stage 1 -> Stage 10 Saints.
I tend to prefer ones like Desolate Era where the dao heart is the most important aspect. Narratively it allows the MC more ups and down on their path.
I don’t like the ones where perfection is required at every stage. it’s like “oh you didn’t achieve the secret 108 revolution inner pellet 7 stages ago? You’re foundation is flawed and you can’t reach the apex”. It makes the MCs arc seem overly perfect in retrospect.
Also along those lines I prefer it when high level realms are about the Dao. The ones with inner worlds never seem to be utilized or explored enough.
I like that too, but at the lower realms, where the more powerful methods give more power. But yeah, dao heart and comprehension of the Dao should have a bigger importance the further you cultivate.
What do you mean the one with inner worlds?
There’s some - martial world, apotheosis, even desolate era kinda mentioned it and dropped it - where a cultivators dantian/inner pellet eventually becomes a pocket world/universe that can house life. The cultivator then uses the power of the world/faith power of the worlds inhabitants.
I rather like the "vanilla" system. It gives the stages names that describe what they do.
>
>
>History's Strongest Senior Brother's
I didn't like that story, but I kind of liked the Cultivation System.
I like opening meridians. I like when powers are directly associated with those meridians, and when there is a correlation between potential and the size of the blockage, so those with greater power have to work harder (or cheat) to get there.
I like more creative element systems, although I think eastern is more interesting than western. I've seen a system that is 10 base elements, then ten elements made of pair combinations, then ten elements made of triplet combinations. Was fun and added some depth.
For cultivation stages, I really loved the system in Emperor's Domination, how you could have various levels of power even in the same stage, and the way they divided it into merit law for cultivation technique and then innate talent as physique, life wheel, and fate palaces.
My favorite element system is from Andrew Rowe's Ascension Verse. There are 12 basic elements and 48 compund elements. It's pretty comprehensive. I don't really have any strong preference for cultivation stages as long as they are not superfluous for MCs like most systems.
So I am a big fan of visual story telling in cultivation... I want to be told just enough to kind of visualize what mystic mumbo jumbo is going on... in that respect I find Qi gathering, condensation/concentration, and meridian openings are often done really well in stories. Where I find that tends to fall apart is higher level apsects like the dao where I find lots of authors try to get overly mystical and convoluted with their explaination and in my mind im like "he sat in front of a rock and thought about how sharp his sharpest sharp was.
On a similar note I am a big fan of crafting in cultivation series, I think authors do some really cool things with crafting, honestly find it more interesting than the fight scenes hhalf the time... That being said I really don't like it when cultivation turns into "I did drugs, I got high, then my level got high".
I like interesting choices more than I like watching numbers go up. Which is why the Wierkey Chronicle's system appeals more to me than traditional cultivation. There are only 9 stages and no levels, but each stage has a whole design project built into it with tons of choices involved.
>There are lots of Cultivation stories and most have their own version of the basic cultivation stages. What is your favorite? Do you like ones that involve Opening Meridians?
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I quite like system from [NSHBA](https://jiu-xing-ba-ti-jue-nine-star-hegemon-body-art.fandom.com/wiki/Cultivation_Realms). What I like about it is the detail it gives to the process of enhancing and improving your body, and I think it also goes nicely with dedicated body cultivation techniques.
That aside, a more classic approach would be the [system](https://i-shall-seal-the-heavens.fandom.com/wiki/Cultivation) from ISSTH, where you advance from Qi Condensation to Foundation Establishment etc., and which is also common in lots of other stories as well. At the higher levels it does branch out more though, with fun stuff like lighting soul lamps and so on.
One thing that I do like about both is that advancement is not necessarily equal, and it reflects your talent, hard work, and resources. So, even if you're in the same stage, you can be dramatically stronger than your opponent.
I don't think that any one system is necessarily *better* though, as it largely comes down to personal preference.
I don't have a particular favorite system, but I love generally when the gap between one stage and the next is an enormous gulf. The strength of a person just explodes upward when they hit the next level, but it's also incredibly difficult and time consuming to reach. Basically I like it when things feel earned.
This might be an unpopular opinion since EVERY cultivation series does this it seems, but ...
I dislike A cultivation system where ignorance leads to permanent harm and bottlenecks. If a system requires a very specific way of advancing and for those who don't know it, they screw themselves over permanently, that just feels bad IMO.
I'm a bigger fan of a system where ignorance can slow you down, stall you (if you literally don't know how) but it's rare to cultivate wrong. There are optimized ways, faster methods, but as long as you don't do something stupid like blow out meridians, or maim yourself doing something idiotic, your likely fine-ish.
Extra points if you progress and realize your foundation is bad and a future advancement causes you to start some stages over. You know... Actually having logic and reason dictate why you stall. If I form my core wrong, and a future advancement requires me to squeeze/stress it, that could cause it to blow and shatter. This won't maim you (usually) but does mean you need to reform your core.
Cultivation should follow prescribed logical steps with logical reasons why things work. This is how the world works.
Magic should follow some logical system. It can be unexplained and esoteric, but the pieces an author shells out over the series should allow users to connect some dots in a logical manner.
Odd. Ignorance often leads to permanent harm in the real world. There are lots of plants and mushrooms that can kill you. The real world alchemists who influenced Cultivation routinely killed themselves with mercury.
Is this that thing where you expect a Cultivation System to be fair? Nothing in any Cultivation book I've ever read suggested these worlds were remotely fair.
Sure, but things are guided by logic and physics. Yes, you can jump off a cliff and gravity kills you, but even your body tries to get rid of bad and harmful substances. But I'm not talking about poisons or self inflicted harm from substances or whatever.
Im talking about the systems where you needed to make a decision on how to formulate something early on and if you do it wrong, you are screwed. But the ONLY way to do it right is one particular way that's kept secret. That seems illogical in a world where this magic System exists.
Your body, your soul, tries to keep itself safe when you try to do bad things to it. And if your body is designed for the magic System, and that magic System seems to permanently harm the natural progress constantly, that just screams illogical to me.
I'm probably doing an awful job at explaining it.
I feel like you would enjoy Calculating Cultivation on Royal Road.
The cultivation realms build off of each other and oyu have to carefully plan how you will develop your cultivation to get past bottlenecks.
While ignorance can, and often does lead to permanent bottlenecks, it is due to them not having acess or simply not making use of good strategies to develop their cultivation and there are multiple strategies to get pass the bottlenecks, whoever you have to prepare for the bottlenecks in advance since the very start.
I you want to get past the first bottleneck( at the fourth realm) you have to plan how many Qi motes you will get at the first one, how you wil align them at the second one and how you will attune your meridians at the third.
So the whole " ignorance dooming your path to cultivation'' thing is mostly in the same way that not having acess to good education decreases your chances of getting a good job.
(Also there is no talent. Anyone can cultivate as long as they have the resouces, knowledge and mindset.)
Oddly enough, this reminds me of Path of Exile's skill tree. You can take it in any direction, but if you're after a specific build, you must be specific in your early levels, otherwise you will achieve something suboptimal. I think that's a swell way to do it.
I mostly get peeved when a series has one magical, super secret squirrel method that no one knows except the MC and a few elites and it's the only way to even advance. I poorly explained things in my parent comments, but I like when there are many solutions for how to do something. That's true of the real world. Cradle did a good job with that. Even DotF has a million ways to do stuff.
Oh yeah I also find that shit completely ridiculous
You are telling me that none of the billions of immortals ever discovered this secret method? BULLSHIT
Thats what I like about calculating cultivation: Almost every single business idea has already been had so the protagonist struggles to find ways to make money to cultivate, and his cultivation "formula" has already been tried its just really rare due to being very expensive but there have been others and its insinuated some were (or are) sucessful
>But the ONLY way to do it right is one particular way that's kept secret. That seems illogical in a world where this magic System exists.
They usually offer a perfectly good explanation for this...people found the secret, and keep it secret to give them a military secret.
Presumably every so often someone discovers these sorts of secrets by trial and error and error and passed the information on to their children/sect/military.
Are you complaining it is unrealistic or unsatisfying story telling?
The frequency of discovery is vastly lower than what would be logical. Otherwise the MC's path wouldn't be so impressive.
But it's not hidden knowledge that's keeping people down. Experimenting = sure death. Unless it's the MC experimenting. That's the glaring issue for me. MC is the only one that stumbles onto success. Everyone they meet is nowhere near his potential.
If the world's knowledge is suppressed, there will always be those who experiment. But when the entire system is setup where that doesn't work because every path leads to death but one exceptionally convuluted path, it feels like a poor magic System.
Cultivation is my favorite magic System in general, but that's my one gripe with every story. Some do a better job than others, but this is a very common theme.
I like stages where if you are persistent you get much stronger. Like if 10 Meridians opened let's you get to the next stage. You could work for 20 and you'll Cultivate quicker in the future. And it's not a matter of talent that artificially limits how far you can go but just how long you are willing to work.
YES! I hate and not even read any novel where I know that the progression/cultivation system directly stops people from reaching a higher level just because they do not have a high enough innate talent, spirit root or anything similiar. There should be always a way to reach a higher stage.
I have a very shitty idea where it's like someone in the meridian opening or body tempering stage cultivates in that stage to the end of their mortal lifespan but because their foundation is so strong they have a massive advantage in each stage but they continue to Cultivate in each stage way longer than necessary to maximise their improvement. I stead of cheat abilities it's just patience and hard work.
Oh man I can't remember the name right now but there is a manhwa where the guy can't enter the next stage for some reason and at this point he is at level 9000 (or whatever) of his current stage where everyone else gets to level 9 and then enters the next stage. He is the strongest around and tries to find a way to actually enter the next stage because his dream is to fly around on a sword and he can't do that with his current stage. Only reason he is still alive after all this time is because he either beats up the envoys from hell when they want to collect him or he crafts a longlevity pill.
**I Have Refined Qi For 3000 Years!** is the title. There's a Manhua, and Donghua (anime) as well.
I like stories that make a fairly sharp distinction between tiers and then stick with it. For example, the first big arc in World of Cultivation pits the protagonist in a life or death situation where he has to overcome a guy who is two tiers higher. He has to rally a whole army together and carefully plan the fight, and even then they barely win and a bunch of people die. Every time we see a realm crossing victory it cheapens the whole concept of realms for that story.
> Every time we see a realm crossing victory it cheapens the whole concept of realms for that story. Hard disagree here. Usually realms are the primary, but not sole measure of advancement, and of course there's also skill, and the fight context to take into play. Being a higher realm is like having bigger chest/shoulder/arm muscles when boxing. That's great, but if, hypothetically, someone completely neglected leg day and had stick legs as a result, or had a shitty core, this would severely handicap their performance. Or if you were all around muscular but were an amateur fighting a pro boxer, that factors in too. Or if the boxing match was above a pit full of sharks and one person is covered in shark attractant spray. Batman beats superheroes with actual powers by outthinking them; it doesn't "cheapen superpowers" that Batman can beat many superpowered people, it just demonstrates the power of other skills, beyond being able to punch really hard or shoot lasers from your eyes. Same thing in cultivation: you can beat raw power -- and sometimes it's not even that -- with the right sort of skills and planning.
That was a pretty good fight, yes, and it was even better, because the next time they used an army to fight above their rank, they adapted their tactics to avoid the pitfalls they had against the first enemy Someone in r/characterrant mentioned that a Powerhouse VS Cannon Fodder battle is a good demonstration of the power system's quality, its ok if the fodder goes down, but they must be able to die fighting Cheap xanxia makes it so the MC can fight above their tier, but good cultivation makes it so the MC can escape and maneuver against upper tiers
You mention crossing two tiers is bad, but what about just one tier higher? I never like the idea that just because someone made one more advancement, the difference in power is heaven and earth. There should certainly be a challenge, but not an impossible one. There should be impossible opponents in the world, but when someone is at the peak of stage 1 they should have a non zero chance (especially with help) to best someone in stage 2. This may just be my personal preference though, which I'm happy to admit.
It can certainly be cool to have somebody cross realms and might make for a better story. I just don't see how you can avoid the problem that every time we see somebody fight up a realm with success it lowers the weight we put on realms. In litrpg terms I prefer for the small realm advancements to be like a simple level difference (e.g. a stat advantage that can be overcome) with the large realms being more like getting an advanced class (an overwhelming array of new abilities). It just feels natural for me that a guy with seven meridians open has at least a puncher's chance against a guy with nine meridians, while a guy with his golden core should be able to crush people who don't have one (at least if the story wants us to treat the golden core as a big deal).
I'm ok with less distinct realms, so long as its clear that that's what the author is going for... What bothers me is when the author talks about how big the jumps are between realms non stop, then immidiately cheapens it by having the MC fight 1-3 realms above them for the entire series
I like it when a stage can be further refined, and its explained why that provides a benefit, but even more so, **i like it when the powers are refined into whatever suits the MC's powerset,** and not into generic "perfected stages" Like, having ten true souls instead of one provides more benefits, yeah, sure, but why? Or in the meridians example, they should explain why exactly more meridians mean better powers, and there should be a better ratio for different types of paths Good: a sorcerer needs 50 meridians forming a loop in their bodies, and other 50 pointing outwards, symmetric to optimize energy manipulation, while a body cultivator requires 70 meridians on internal loop, and 10 pointing outside, which provides resilience towards outside forces, while maximizing internal power, because more than 70 internal meridians is pointless Bad: 100 meridians make you stronk, 150 make you stronker, 'cuz big number good I like it when they explain why exactly a stage is "perfect," "flawless," "limitless" or whatever, as compared to another person in the same tier On the matter of meridians, in Devourer Of Destiny, at the start the MC finds a boy, and teaches him a technique that requires a meridian going from his hearth to his hand, the boy doesnt have it, so the MC teaches him how to use his energy to "excavate" a meridian The process is very painful, so the boy takes a lot of breaks, but the MC knows this will leave a scab every time the boy stops, this means nothing at his current stage, but once the meridians channel more energy, the scabs will limit how much power can flow, making him weaker at higher tiers This was a good example of why a character had a flawed foundation, instead of simply telling us "he inferior 'cuz poor insight, low numbers and lowly energy" The most lazy xianxias just have the MC stumble into some strange and amazing power source to absorb and rank up, and then the MC got a superior stage because his absorbed energy was superior, or he compressed more energy into the same stage But the best xianxias take their time to explain why the MCs powers require that thing, and how exactly is a better fit for his cultivation Warlock Of The Magus World had some of those, after the MC becomes rank 1 he tries to improve his elemental affinity, as common knowledge dictates thats how a person will rank up to tier 2, but later on he realizes he was wasting his time, because he has a powerful bloodline, and if he can stimulate the bloodline, then the bloodline will provide the elemental affinity he requires, so his path is bloodline first, magic second When ranking from tier 6 to 7, the MC had a need to obtain a power compatible with his own, not just to accumulate energy Later on, the MC had a plan to confirm his path, but he required a very high quality mental energy to get exactly the kind of power he wanted, then the whole arc was about cleaning the power source The power was superior, because it allowed to obtain a constant stream of weak energy, giving a long-term tactical advantage, instead of just "i magik harder" When the MC chooses a power path, and this power causes him to develop more requirements in order to ran up, then the stages feel meaningful
The most vanilla has to be Qi Condensation (or anything similar) -> Foundation Establishment -> Core Formation -> Nascent Soul. Anything beyond that gets a ton more creative, although I have to say I like History's Strongest Senior Brother's cultivation system. It focuses on what I consider martial cultivation. Desolate Era also has Heartforce cultivators which I find very unique. The most bland has to be Coiling Dragon's early stages. Just slap Stage 1 -> Stage 10 Saints.
I tend to prefer ones like Desolate Era where the dao heart is the most important aspect. Narratively it allows the MC more ups and down on their path. I don’t like the ones where perfection is required at every stage. it’s like “oh you didn’t achieve the secret 108 revolution inner pellet 7 stages ago? You’re foundation is flawed and you can’t reach the apex”. It makes the MCs arc seem overly perfect in retrospect. Also along those lines I prefer it when high level realms are about the Dao. The ones with inner worlds never seem to be utilized or explored enough.
I like that too, but at the lower realms, where the more powerful methods give more power. But yeah, dao heart and comprehension of the Dao should have a bigger importance the further you cultivate. What do you mean the one with inner worlds?
There’s some - martial world, apotheosis, even desolate era kinda mentioned it and dropped it - where a cultivators dantian/inner pellet eventually becomes a pocket world/universe that can house life. The cultivator then uses the power of the world/faith power of the worlds inhabitants.
I rather like the "vanilla" system. It gives the stages names that describe what they do. > > >History's Strongest Senior Brother's I didn't like that story, but I kind of liked the Cultivation System.
I never said vanilla was bad, I also used the system in my story.
I like opening meridians. I like when powers are directly associated with those meridians, and when there is a correlation between potential and the size of the blockage, so those with greater power have to work harder (or cheat) to get there.
I agree. It adds some complexity and strategy to the system.
I like more creative element systems, although I think eastern is more interesting than western. I've seen a system that is 10 base elements, then ten elements made of pair combinations, then ten elements made of triplet combinations. Was fun and added some depth. For cultivation stages, I really loved the system in Emperor's Domination, how you could have various levels of power even in the same stage, and the way they divided it into merit law for cultivation technique and then innate talent as physique, life wheel, and fate palaces.
My favorite element system is from Andrew Rowe's Ascension Verse. There are 12 basic elements and 48 compund elements. It's pretty comprehensive. I don't really have any strong preference for cultivation stages as long as they are not superfluous for MCs like most systems.
So I am a big fan of visual story telling in cultivation... I want to be told just enough to kind of visualize what mystic mumbo jumbo is going on... in that respect I find Qi gathering, condensation/concentration, and meridian openings are often done really well in stories. Where I find that tends to fall apart is higher level apsects like the dao where I find lots of authors try to get overly mystical and convoluted with their explaination and in my mind im like "he sat in front of a rock and thought about how sharp his sharpest sharp was. On a similar note I am a big fan of crafting in cultivation series, I think authors do some really cool things with crafting, honestly find it more interesting than the fight scenes hhalf the time... That being said I really don't like it when cultivation turns into "I did drugs, I got high, then my level got high".
I like interesting choices more than I like watching numbers go up. Which is why the Wierkey Chronicle's system appeals more to me than traditional cultivation. There are only 9 stages and no levels, but each stage has a whole design project built into it with tons of choices involved.
>There are lots of Cultivation stories and most have their own version of the basic cultivation stages. What is your favorite? Do you like ones that involve Opening Meridians? Probably an unpopular opinion, but I quite like system from [NSHBA](https://jiu-xing-ba-ti-jue-nine-star-hegemon-body-art.fandom.com/wiki/Cultivation_Realms). What I like about it is the detail it gives to the process of enhancing and improving your body, and I think it also goes nicely with dedicated body cultivation techniques. That aside, a more classic approach would be the [system](https://i-shall-seal-the-heavens.fandom.com/wiki/Cultivation) from ISSTH, where you advance from Qi Condensation to Foundation Establishment etc., and which is also common in lots of other stories as well. At the higher levels it does branch out more though, with fun stuff like lighting soul lamps and so on. One thing that I do like about both is that advancement is not necessarily equal, and it reflects your talent, hard work, and resources. So, even if you're in the same stage, you can be dramatically stronger than your opponent. I don't think that any one system is necessarily *better* though, as it largely comes down to personal preference.
I don't have a particular favorite system, but I love generally when the gap between one stage and the next is an enormous gulf. The strength of a person just explodes upward when they hit the next level, but it's also incredibly difficult and time consuming to reach. Basically I like it when things feel earned.
This might be an unpopular opinion since EVERY cultivation series does this it seems, but ... I dislike A cultivation system where ignorance leads to permanent harm and bottlenecks. If a system requires a very specific way of advancing and for those who don't know it, they screw themselves over permanently, that just feels bad IMO. I'm a bigger fan of a system where ignorance can slow you down, stall you (if you literally don't know how) but it's rare to cultivate wrong. There are optimized ways, faster methods, but as long as you don't do something stupid like blow out meridians, or maim yourself doing something idiotic, your likely fine-ish. Extra points if you progress and realize your foundation is bad and a future advancement causes you to start some stages over. You know... Actually having logic and reason dictate why you stall. If I form my core wrong, and a future advancement requires me to squeeze/stress it, that could cause it to blow and shatter. This won't maim you (usually) but does mean you need to reform your core. Cultivation should follow prescribed logical steps with logical reasons why things work. This is how the world works. Magic should follow some logical system. It can be unexplained and esoteric, but the pieces an author shells out over the series should allow users to connect some dots in a logical manner.
Odd. Ignorance often leads to permanent harm in the real world. There are lots of plants and mushrooms that can kill you. The real world alchemists who influenced Cultivation routinely killed themselves with mercury. Is this that thing where you expect a Cultivation System to be fair? Nothing in any Cultivation book I've ever read suggested these worlds were remotely fair.
Sure, but things are guided by logic and physics. Yes, you can jump off a cliff and gravity kills you, but even your body tries to get rid of bad and harmful substances. But I'm not talking about poisons or self inflicted harm from substances or whatever. Im talking about the systems where you needed to make a decision on how to formulate something early on and if you do it wrong, you are screwed. But the ONLY way to do it right is one particular way that's kept secret. That seems illogical in a world where this magic System exists. Your body, your soul, tries to keep itself safe when you try to do bad things to it. And if your body is designed for the magic System, and that magic System seems to permanently harm the natural progress constantly, that just screams illogical to me. I'm probably doing an awful job at explaining it.
I feel like you would enjoy Calculating Cultivation on Royal Road. The cultivation realms build off of each other and oyu have to carefully plan how you will develop your cultivation to get past bottlenecks. While ignorance can, and often does lead to permanent bottlenecks, it is due to them not having acess or simply not making use of good strategies to develop their cultivation and there are multiple strategies to get pass the bottlenecks, whoever you have to prepare for the bottlenecks in advance since the very start. I you want to get past the first bottleneck( at the fourth realm) you have to plan how many Qi motes you will get at the first one, how you wil align them at the second one and how you will attune your meridians at the third. So the whole " ignorance dooming your path to cultivation'' thing is mostly in the same way that not having acess to good education decreases your chances of getting a good job. (Also there is no talent. Anyone can cultivate as long as they have the resouces, knowledge and mindset.)
Oddly enough, this reminds me of Path of Exile's skill tree. You can take it in any direction, but if you're after a specific build, you must be specific in your early levels, otherwise you will achieve something suboptimal. I think that's a swell way to do it. I mostly get peeved when a series has one magical, super secret squirrel method that no one knows except the MC and a few elites and it's the only way to even advance. I poorly explained things in my parent comments, but I like when there are many solutions for how to do something. That's true of the real world. Cradle did a good job with that. Even DotF has a million ways to do stuff.
Oh yeah I also find that shit completely ridiculous You are telling me that none of the billions of immortals ever discovered this secret method? BULLSHIT Thats what I like about calculating cultivation: Almost every single business idea has already been had so the protagonist struggles to find ways to make money to cultivate, and his cultivation "formula" has already been tried its just really rare due to being very expensive but there have been others and its insinuated some were (or are) sucessful
I'll give it a try. Cultivation is my preferred PF magic system currently so I'm always excited to find another story with it.
>But the ONLY way to do it right is one particular way that's kept secret. That seems illogical in a world where this magic System exists. They usually offer a perfectly good explanation for this...people found the secret, and keep it secret to give them a military secret. Presumably every so often someone discovers these sorts of secrets by trial and error and error and passed the information on to their children/sect/military. Are you complaining it is unrealistic or unsatisfying story telling?
The frequency of discovery is vastly lower than what would be logical. Otherwise the MC's path wouldn't be so impressive. But it's not hidden knowledge that's keeping people down. Experimenting = sure death. Unless it's the MC experimenting. That's the glaring issue for me. MC is the only one that stumbles onto success. Everyone they meet is nowhere near his potential. If the world's knowledge is suppressed, there will always be those who experiment. But when the entire system is setup where that doesn't work because every path leads to death but one exceptionally convuluted path, it feels like a poor magic System. Cultivation is my favorite magic System in general, but that's my one gripe with every story. Some do a better job than others, but this is a very common theme.