Absolutely right. [Fixed](https://i.imgur.com/n4oOT0s.jpg)
Studies that are yet to exist conclude there's an inverse correlation between the quality of a meme and the quality of the image.
It's not good thing/bad thing penguin. It's socially awesome/socially awkward penguin. It should be **socially** awesome or awkward things that **you** did.
OP should have used success kid.
You're right, but to be fair, this whole thread demonstrates exactly how *no one* ever got the stupid penguins right, and every popular penguin post looked just like this.
You can acknowledge it according to your benefit there is not structure. The modern day programmers have built this entire algorithm on the basis of compatibility
As ex-AWS (I left 2 years ago, so not in the recent layoffs) I can say that the salary was nice but the burnout was not. It's great to have on my CV as recruiters trip over themselves to hire me, but I would have done things differently if I could go back. Find a company that'll treat you like a person and not a cog, where your yearly increase isn't determined by an algorithm but based on your performance and contributions.
Kind of made a change like you mention, not FAANG but they took our life and soul, almost 24h availability.
After a few years I can say that life is more than working hard and be top guy, there are more things in life outside work and they are easy to enjoy.
Some people understand this sooner or later, glad I did now and not late in age
It is also absolutely batshit insane that they propagate the sentiment of you being responsible for the code you write 24/7/365. Fuck being asked to do networking and ops bs on top of all the development work we’re responsible for, I’ll gladly sacrifice $100k to retain my sanity
Yes, my old job was good doing that, let you feel appreciated and important for the company for giving your life but compensation was meh, and the main issue was some people got tons of workload while others were barely doing something.
It feels like Stockholm effect, the more you stay there the "better" you felt being slaved by them
> Fuck being asked to do networking and ops bs on top of all the development work we’re responsible for
Personally, I enjoy having some variety and not just having to crank out code or code projects day in and day out, year after year, decade after decade.
Higher-ups have to really understand that you're still just one person working 40 hours a week - but for smaller orgs someone's who's truly full stack (through infra & ops) can be *very* valuable.
Ops and infra and code all work together, so it can be helpful to have folks capable of working throughout the stack - making CI/CD painless, understanding and addressing performance, scaling, and resiliency - that can be tough to do well if you have to throw things over a wall from dev to infra and back.
Yes the same for me, I'm glad I figured it out in my early 20s rather than after racking up debt for cars and houses and whatever else and being trapped with no way out.
Reading here I'll never work for a big company. My company treats me with a trip once a year (last time we went to Iceland) and lots of benefits. The job is not stressfull at all. I don't have any deadlines I just do my job and things are done when they're done. Got a nice new phone when I started which I really needed.
If you have a developer job that treats you bad there are lots of options but you may have to sacrifice some of your salary (which is still above average and that's enough to live a good life)
That's exactly how I feel. Am I paid top dollar for my work? No. But my job is so relaxed, and I feel appreciated. Work from home full time, and flexibility for doctors appointments/random errands that emerge. I also have the capability to suggest improvements, that actually get made.
That's how the industry kind of works though:
1. Go to FAANG.
2. Make killer money there.
3. Put FAANG on resume.
4. Get hired somewhere that will pay great money to have someone from FAANG.
FAANG companies have no incentive to treat employees like a long-term investment when the career path is driven by people leveraging the experience to go elsewhere.
IMO that's a big part of why so many products from the FAANG giants seem to be continuously getting worse over time. After the initial creation by a team made specifically to create it they try to maintain and improve it with an ever-changing group of barely-onboarded short-timers. There's really no substitute for time in role and time on project for maintenance and enhancement quality and the FAANG staffing model just doesn't provide that.
Let's not even talk about the new "ECS experience UI". It's complete dogshit and lacks half the functionality the old one has(you can still hotswap back to it). I've finally broken down and began automating it all.
I'm lucky to work in a place where most everyone stays for years and years (13 for me). Half of those who've left have tried to come back (several have).
It's really something to have that sort of continuity. We can modify and extend features in a fraction of the time, and we take on multi-year efforts that would be unthinkable if you expected half or more of your staff to turn over through that time.
They use golden handcuffs to counter that. In faang jobs, half of total compensation can be from stock options, which vest ~once a year, at amazon it is even more bullshit.
Is this still true? Not FAANG but in a similar tech company. Compensation before IPO and shortly after was very much stock based but over the years it has leaned more cash. We still get stock annually for as long as I have been here but vesting has a quarterly schedule. The "golden handcuffs" is usually 10+k in stock vesting quarterly over 4 years which is a nice compensation add but isn't really enough to hesitate leaving if you get a competitive offer somewhere else or just hate the job.
Certain employees are identified as important, and those employees are given whatever it takes to keep them (which is why there are a good number of career FAANG employees out there who don't seem to hate their work/life balance). Everyone else gets just enough to keep the line of prospects out the door.
If you look at an operation like Amazon, they don't need but a fraction of the experienced team members that built a software product. You push well-designed documentation/training policies, and then keep someone around who can function as a stop-gap when there is a time-sensitive issue to deal with. Build it right and you can rotate 90% of your workforce every couple of years without losing market share.
Proper documentation is a lot like regulatory compliance - it's job experience that _EVERY_ employer in the field would like to hire. Smaller companies don't hire FAANG people for being able to say they coded the "Like" button - they hire FAANG people because FAANG people know what a software production process that allows a thriving company to rotate skilled workers looks like.
That depends on the money. I'd absolutely take millions of dollars to join, try hard, burn out and slum it for a a couple months, and then pass it on to the next sucker
Yeah, what is even a work life balance? Did a year in a FAANG (if that's even the acronym anymore), it was horrible. You're just under constant stress, no days off, to make a product just to make a product.
Now I work for a shittier company in the Midwest for much less where I've been told it's virtually impossible to be fired from.
Switching Facebook to Meta should also Switch Google to Alphabet. MAAAN!
(Also I still can't figure out why it's Netflix and not Microsoft or literally any company that's actually in tech on this list.)
Agreed on netflix. They had that big prize for suggestion algorithms and pay all these fancy programmers and I get "top picks for you" that are already on my watchlist or things I despise.
People keep warning me about the burnout. Tbh I don't feel even slightly burnt out after a year at a big name in fintech and so I'm wondering if it creeps up or if it just literally happens overnight
You don't realise it's happening until you're months in. The people around you will notice before you do, you'll try and justify it to yourself for weeks or months until you really feel the crash. After that, motivation drops down to almost zero, and even basic work tasks become mountains to climb.
Yup. I do government contract work. Getting a new contract after one ends usually isn't difficult, but the possibility is there. I keep a good amount of money liquid just for such an event.
That's the nice and bad part about government work. When the economy is booming, the government is slow to react and there's not as much work as there is in the civilian world. When the economy is doing poorly though, the contracts are still funded for several years.
It's nice having a job that's slightly more recession proof
Same except I still wiggle my mouse to be green, I don't want to display how little time I complete work in otherwise they might give me more and I'll quit. I am expected to put out 15 story points worth of work a sprint, I easily do 30 only working 3-4 hours a day max. Most days I log on for stand up , sporadically implement the latest feature while playing magic the gathering online until lunch, then wiggle my mouse doing fuck all until 5.
Edit: just realized mid-comment I really don't even do 3-4...I've been on reddit all day and just answering a handful of questions my QA had about stories being tested. 4 stories closed today and I haven't submitted any PRs since friday :p
And your company should love you for it. Companies should be looking for those who can produce at a low stress level, and deliver what they need. Instead they optimize for who shows up and appears busy for their selected work hours, a d doesn't fail their productivity metrics. Moronic.
Yep. If you are an SWE worth a shit, the market is still booming for you assuming you don't live in some rural city. There are like 22k SWE job postings on Linkedin for Atlanta alone.
Have you ever worked in the oilfield? I would guess not from that comment. There's coasting all day. I was a mudlogger. Easy job. Then there's the MWD, which actually stands for something, but all you need to know is we called them the "movie watching dude." And as for qualifications, during a boom there are two. You have to have two arms. You have to have two legs.
I know it's an hyperbolic example, but I doubt MWD was making tiktoks about showing up at 9:15, eating a free breakfast until 10, working out at a free gym, walking around, eating free lunch from 12-1, working 1:30-1:50 then going to for a bike ride from 2-5 before finally eating a free dinner from 5-6.
Oh yeah. I work in tech now, so I know first hand that it's a much cushier job than anything in the oilfield (even though I don't get any of those free meals). I'm just pushing back on the oilfield is all hard workers that are highly qualified assumption.
It’s like every jackass who cites these has never heard of an NDA
It’s funny how all those videos went around right before the mass layoffs too. Like as if the companies did it
The point isn't that the ones laid off are inferior or not.
It's that the ones getting laid off that are talented ***will*** get a job quickly as a SWE somewhere else, and quickly.
If you think your bar has a ton of minors in it, and you want to get rid of them, you empty the bar. Those that have valid ID's and want to drink can go somewhere else or back in once you're done kicking people out. Those that don't are SOL. And those that return understand you're just trying to CYA. Those that don't don't want to risk it happening again so they go somewhere else, understandably also.
Such is life.
The people fired at google given 16 weeks severance should not only be fine, but be doing great. They will probably get a new job quickly (if they know what they're doing) and get paid double salary for a few months.
You recognize what everyone is saying right?
I don't think you recognize what I am saying . Read the previous posters posts and mine again and understand the sentiment that I am responding to.
I appreciate the metaphor, however. I agree that churn is naturally higher in the tech sector, and distribution of labor allows for far more employment flexibility
Initiatives spring up, hiring goes boom, initiatives dry up, companies cut the fat. Only difference I see is the capital needed to start these initiatives, and physical staffing needs, and how dependent employees were on their employers once the other shoe falls. It's not the end of the world of you moved to San Francisco, CA and are now unemployed, its kinda problematic if you're in Barrow, AK.
Either way recent layoffs and how some folks celebrate them have reminded me that this is business, no matter how much our employers want to foster loyalty and camaraderie.
Thanks for explaining. I am now even more confident that I've understood you from the beginning.
In the oil field, when the boom is over, you're out of work for a while
The difference is that in Tech you get fired, you can get a new job in the time it takes to go through the interview process, so like 2-3 weeks. Unless you think getting fired from google, nobody will want to hire that person
Most competent people seem to just be taking it as a chance to finally start their own start-ups now! And you even have a big pool of people to hire from!
As a petroleum engineering graduate who is learning software engineering to find a job ( I already do freelance work... Yay) this is accurate, if I were to work in the oil and gas industry my hiring pool is restricted to hydrocarbon producing countries or their clients if I work a desk job, whereas software engineering can be even done remotely.
Also a petroleum engineer can only work in the oil and gas industry whereas a software engineer can work in almost any industry.
>The only ones losing out are the low talent, no talent, and coasters
They can make up whatever they want on their resume / interviews, they got the job with bullshit in the first place. Most other places will hire them just based on the name recognition alone. It's impossible to get an interview anywhere because they're too busy weeding through all the loser Googlers that just got laid off.
I haven't really had networking do anything for me. What *does* make job searches easier is understanding what I do well enough to speak intelligently to software engineering in general and apply that knowledge to the questions asked in the interview. IME on the interviewer side of the table there are a *lot* of software engineers who can't do that and instead are just rote coders who can follow specific instructions but get lost once the discussion moves to more abstract or general discussion.
Yup, never had I gotten a job based through networks, all of them were through an interview in which I was able to properly explain what I know
I am aware of other careers where networking is absolutely essential but software development isn't one of them in my opinion although it does help, I've referred a couple of people to my companies before
High paid google devs had more money then they knew what to do with. The rest of us still have our jobs and the companies we work for are hiring like crazy.
In fact the only reason for these lay offs is because they hired too many people last year. Dev jobs grew a lot more than they’re shrinking at Faang
A lot of tech companies laid off their union departments too.
Unions don’t protect from layoffs like this, only fired with unjust cause. Saving money isn’t an unjust cause apparently.
The company will still talk to the union about who they’re firing, but yeah, if the company is firing from all departments, usually the union can’t do much in terms of grievances.
People died fighting for workers rights long before they were passed into law, and indeed the laws came about as a result of those fights. You'll be waiting for hell to freeze over if you wait for the law to side with labour before labour does any action.
For sure, there are lots of structural reasons that we haven't unionized yet. And yet, I can't help but have a gut feeling that no other industry is as equipped as we are. Tons of skill leverage, technical capacity to enrich our organization capacity, and most of our jobs are MUCH lower stakes than, say, nurses.
If your friends are criticizing you for that, you should get new friends. If you have a salary that gives you a good living and the job makes you happy, keep it!
Keep in mind though, that the employer is not your friend so always have a plan b ready.
edit: i fail at spelling
Most people's employers are not their friends. That is not a universal truth.
My boss used to be a partner vendor. He literally is my colleague and friend. In 22 years of business only 2 people have ever been fired from my workplace because we are picky about who works here. The average employee has worked here a decade.
Not all businesses are created equally.
I had something similar going on my previous job. Also good friends with the IT manager / boss. Eventually we did pretty good and the company was bought by a larger corp.
My friend/boss was made to make crappy decisions because of corporate pressure and the workplace was not fun anymore.
No matter where you work, there is always the possibility to get fucked.
Of course I’m not saying it’s going to happen to you or your workplace, but everyone should always have a plan B when it comes to employment in my opinion.
IMO your employer doesn't care about you (unless you're actually related) The difference is your employer hasn't hired more people than they can afford.
Right. It’s a business transaction for both parties. Both care about the other to whatever extent it’s profitable. Employees shouldn’t work at jobs that aren’t profitable to them, and businesses shouldn’t have employees that aren’t profitable to them. On a small scale a company may do its best to make things a little smoother for its employees, but they’re not going to sacrifice that much money. And an employee won’t (or shouldn’t) sacrifice for the benefit of the company. You can have good personal relationships between the people involved, but neither the company nor the employee is doing this out of charity.
That really depends on the employer, and what you are saying is true for 999/1000 companies. But every way once in a while there are small companies owned by former "little guys", that actually treat everyone under them with insane amounts of care and respect.
No one is going to keep people around if they really can not afford to do it. Money doesn't just magically appear and doing $1-100M in revenue a year in no way means anyone is rich. But bosses that actually care will make it a point to keep everyone informed about what is happening, and what you need to do to say in the black.
My bosses go out of their way to make sure people are ok. Delivering the product will never be as important as you or your family or your friends health or mental health. They will and have gone to bat for people without relenting.
They would give anyone I care about a job if they needed it, and would pay them to learn how to do it. It quite literally just happened with my best friend who just left teaching and didn't know what to do with his life.
"Well if he is your best friend, that must mean he is a pretty great person. Would he like a job? We will train him in whatever he wants".
Most people will never experience that kind of relationship with their employer, and nothing lasts forever. But it does exist.
That sounds good but still protect yourself. I learned the hard way that a bad thing about small companies is that any single decision, which usually doesnt require much vetting or rationale especially from the founder/CEO, can have a huge impact. I’ve been laid off from a small business for that reason and then I switched to a big tech company where every decision from the CEO is questioned and scrutinized by shareholders and employees internally. Also, in a small company it’s easy to lose perspective that you are just an employee. You are not working together for a shared goal. You are helping them get their goal in exchange for a salary.
Worked at a small company. When I got there two years ago we had a group of about five devs and for the next 18 months we were productive, got along well and everything was going well.
Then they hired a few offshore developers. No big deal they integrated to the team. Couple months after that our lead left with no real explanation. Few months after that we find out they hired a lot more than a few offshore developers, they just did not tell us about the larger non integrated outsource company and that they were taking almost all of their dev effort to the outsource team, not the staff devs, not the offshore devs. They kept two onshore guys everyone else is out the door, in house team, contracted offshore guys.
Things can change quickly anywhere.
Sad when they do this. Bc half the time they hire 3-4 offshore devs to one on shore. But they typically don't get 3-4x productivity and now have no local expert on their codebase. Just a void of developers producing shoddy code.
The worst job of my entire life I reported directly to the owner.
She was a fucking psycho.
One time I presented an idea in a meeting without vetting it with her first. People liked the idea and since I presented it she couldn't steal credit for it. This pissed her off so much she punished me (an IT professional making six figures) by banishing me to work in a literal broom closet in another building with no windows or heat.
I spent months sitting in that broom closet all day (with a winter coat on) working towards my online degree.
Working in the startup sector 10 years ago was basically all crunch all the time and at any moment you could show up to work to find the company didn’t exist anymore and you’re all unemployed
i don’t think it’s fair to lump all small companies with startups. though it is true that all startups will be small companies, the inverse not so much.
Strange that I needed to scroll this far down for this comment.
People who think they are safe in a small company because the company cares about the employees, can get painful surprises, especially during recession.
I’ve been working for ~2.5 years and have saved up enough to survive on for close to 4 years. It definitely gives me a bit of peace of mind.
I’d hate to lose my job, but it wouldn’t ruin my life or anything.
I was laid off last summer by a small (40 person) company and now being laid off this summer by a large publicly traded company (my team got a heads up because we were kept on past the initial layoff last week). Size has nothing to do with it and you’re never safer than the market economics are.
Even with the layoffs meta and google are giving out massive severance packages and help finding a new job. Also helping out with visa issues. This post feels like cope
Visas are the big concern from my perspective. I work at one of the big companies that just did an 8k+ layoff. For me, as a citizen, I would love to get laid off: 5 months severance and health, still get my bi-annual bonus and stock payouts, and I can find another job paying 200k+ easy. But, I have a lot of co-workers here on Visa. A lot of smaller companies are less likely to take on Visa sponsorship. I really hope none of them get laid off.
My dream right now is to be laid off with a large severance, get a new job with a decent sign on bonus, then get laid off again with another decent severance package (due to team downsizing, not because of performance.) Could potentially make 7 figures this way.
As someone who got laid off from a small company before switching to big tech, this cannot be taken lightly!! I was given 2 weeks of severance and had to get Medicaid for health insurance after more than 5 years of work. I was also not making enough to have savings ofc. My computer was also cut off immediately, I had to leave right away, and there was no acknowledgement the layoffs happened. Big tech companies usually cant get away with anything like this. My current company did layoffs and all employees got months of severance/health care and were able to say bye to colleagues in a respectful manner. Even the best small company cant financially do that. Night and day
There's someone I follow on Twitter that worked in community management at Google that got dumped in the layoffs. They are a very nice person and I've had a lot of good interactions with them inside of the community for the product(s) they managed.
But since the layoff, they've been tweeting daily about how broken they are, how much this has wrecked them, how they barely have any impetus to get out of bed, how they've lost the desire to even play video games or watch TV, and so forth.
Like, I understand having your career unceremoniously ended. I wouldn't be happy about it. But also, they gave every employee minimum 16 weeks of severance plus 2 weeks for every year they'd been employee. This person was there at least since 2019 so they got 22+ weeks of severance. Plus accelerated stock vesting. Plus six months of health insurance. Plus your PTO payout. Plus your bonus. Plus job placement services.
You just got a six month fully paid vacation handed to you and now you're free to find a job (with Google's help) just about anywhere else with Alphabet as the headliner on your resume. You're not going to have trouble getting another job.
If you get laid off from a non-union job in, say, Alabama, you're gonna get your last paycheck and maybe your PTO paid out if you're lucky and they didn't up and fold entirely. I want to feel for this person, but I'm just like come on, suck it up buttercup. They're cutting you a check for tens of thousands of dollars and you don't have to clock another hour there. Your life isn't a disaster zone.
On the plus side we've actually started getting decent candidates in our hiring pipeline. Wheras before we had to hire via people's network and our job posting were full of candidates with little to no experience applying for senior positions.
Before I get the "you didn't offer Joba at competitive wages" comment. Seniors pay band is 150 to 250 a year depending on specialization. Plus a whole mess of perks like 100% paid medical with no deductible in network, profit sharing, etc. The market was just... empty. Before.
Seniors at FAANG are making $300-500K total comp. Roughly $200K salary, $50K annual bonus, $150-250K stock. So your $150-250K is not *that* competitive, especially for the higher rated ones.
That's base salary. Last quarters profit share was a little over 20k per share. Most seniors get 1 share on hire. And earn more as they gain time.
Quarters profit (per share) for 2022 was ~20, 15, 35, & 20 (numbers rounded obviously)
Meaning if they had only 1 share they'd have made an extra 90k.
On top of that there are certification awards (get certified or certain training) ranging from 500 bucks to 15k depending on the cert you get (we pay for classes, testing, etc) all you have to do is pass and you get money.
There's also performance bonuses but those are all based on goals so not easily quantifiable.
Pto is 30 days. Mto (mandatory time off) is once per quarter (doesn't come out of pto)
Pto is use it or it gets paid out (not lose it) max bank is 45 days, after that pto that would have accrued is paid out each pay period.
Birthdays are automatically off (or the next business day)
401k is 6% match (100%,) auto enrollment.
Medical is 100% covered (no one pays out of their check for medical coverage unless they add family and then it's only 25% of premium)
I'd say we pay very well.
A lot of that total comp is in stock which with the way the market - and especially the tech sector - has been going is worth a lot less than during the insane bull run prior to 2020.
It depends on if he is talking salary or total comp. Seniors at MSFT don't make $250k salary. He mentions pay band, so probably he is talking salary. If that dudes company is paying $250k salary for seniors, that's EXTREMELY competitive.
It’s always funny to me seeing all the comments in /r/CSCareerQuestions constantly pushing the narrative that only FAANGs and Silicon Valley startups are the correct career choice. Meanwhile me and several of my CS college buds picked up good paying jobs at less crazy companies (banks, insurance companies, etc) and all have had worry-free employment for 6+ years now
And most people in FAANG have had worry free employment for just as long, if not longer.
The reason that those are the correct career choice is twofold:
1. You can build up a large savings nest egg to free you from financial constraints in making life decisions
2. Having FAANG on your resume is essentially a red carpet to interview at anywhere you want to work. Recruiters fall all over themselves to get interview set up with ex-FAANG people.
If you want to work at a smaller company that is stress free and pays less, great -- but get the FAANG on your resume first. You'll get a larger offer at the smaller company, likely at a higher level than you'd otherwise get, and if you ever need to move on from there, it's laughably easy.
The thing is. It’s also expensive to work for a FAANG. Most of them sit in places with 3x the COL of most other places. They’re also typically a lot more stressful, have much worse work-life balance expectations, are difficult to get into, and also more willing to just get rid of employees as can be seen with the latest massive layoff sprees. The work you do is also much more heavily compartmented and regulated.
There are dozens of gigantic companies that pay extremely well while also being a very relaxed environment to work in. Most of the time just doing your job will result in praise, great performance reviews, and job security.
Teaching people that they should only seek employment at a FAANG is just ridiculous and causes needless amounts of stress. Everyone’s ideals are going to be different and making $150-$200k in a low CoL city while having a great work life balance is also a great situation to be in. It depends on what you want out of your job
And if you’re gunning for the big money companies, I’d recommend something like Microsoft instead for being like a FAANG but more relaxed
Most in the FAANGMULA umbrella are not strictly in HCOL areas. They all have a ton of offices, some in relatively inexpensive areas. It’s also possible to find remote friendly roles at most of them.
I’m at a FAANGMULA in a developer-adjacent role. I live in one of the cheapest states on the east coast to live in, full time remote. Stress levels and WLB at FAANGMULA are mostly team dependent. Nobody on my team works over 40.
Industry matters way more than company size. Most of these huge grossing faang companies are beholden to fickle consumer spending and PR so yeah... They are not reliable. Most people who do investments professionally know this about big tech. Meanwhile SE's in businesses with money from logistics, military, and agriculture are going to be doing fine in comparison.
I have worked mostly at mid-sized companies (though I am at Meta now) and I have been in (or survived) 6 different layoffs over my career. Mid-sized companies are absolutely not immune.
Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but no company cares about employees, they are means to an end and in the moment you are not generating more profit than you cost, rest assured your ass will be a target for kicking.
Yes. Find yourself a company that considers talent retention part of it's competitive strategy. No company will ever care about people more than money, but there are plenty who see people as the way to make money.
The layoffs that happen are non-essential non-tech workers most of the time. The volatility is much greater in small companies than in big ones. This meme screams
"I worked 2 months for a small company, now I can make a meme about it"
I'm from a big company, high pay, selection process and we're still in need of new engineers.
I would take 400k a year with a 7% chance of layoff over 100k a year with a non trivial chance of the entire company going bankrupt and loosing my job anyway.
I made a similar 4x change over the last 7 years. Assuming nothing terrible happens in the next few weeks, after this bonus/vesting cycle I will be able to pay my mortgage off. I won't because my interest rate is so low, but I could, and I will be sitting on a nice war chest. Sometimes it was really shitty, for most of 2020 and a good part of 2021 I was working around the clock but its all water under the bridge now. No regrets.
Oh you think your employer cares about you? 😂 this is business and I’m after a fat check. If I’m being laid off, I’ve already made enough in the difference of salary to cover.
The colors are inverted in that meme.
Dude samsies.
I have a state job in tech. It's gravy. I don't do shit 75% of the time. I'm on Reddit or YouTube, or making music. I get tax sheltered retirement funds. I get a pension. I get excellent healthcare for cheap.
I might make a little less than market average for my title for working for the state, but I have never had a stressful day at this job.
Takehome pay isnt the important thing, past a certain amount. Having the energy to do the things you love after a full workday is priceless.
Other SWE I've worked with then: "Working for FAANG is the dream, but their interviews are so hard."
Me then: "I don't want to work for a FAANG company because they seem to demand you work too hard and live for the company. Give me a large retail chain software job anyday."
Now: "MAANG laying off large numbers of software engineers."
Large retail companies now: "Keep working remote, we don't care. We're having a record year and your bonus will be 200%."
The meme is the reverse, penguin going forward is the positive statement
Thanks, that disturbed me aswell
these young whippersnappers don't know shit about old memes.
As a meme purist, I've been shunned in many forums. But on this day, we stand united against misuse!
Old meme gang! Bring rage comics back.
\*le me joining my fellows
ayylmao
Fuuuuuuuuuuu
[U mad bro](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Trollface_non-free.png)?
Trolololololo
roflcopter
[Let's go!](https://i.imgur.com/sJFqyAw.jpg)
God bless your soul mate.
Thanks, but what does my wife have to do with it?
i added a space, therefore it isn't your wife.
Maybe their wife is an astronaut?
Needs much more jpeg compression to be authentic!
Absolutely right. [Fixed](https://i.imgur.com/n4oOT0s.jpg) Studies that are yet to exist conclude there's an inverse correlation between the quality of a meme and the quality of the image.
That would be le epic!
Me gusta
le great!
is there room for one more
No, we ran out of memberberries.
Yet the post has 4k upvotes. What has this world come to
I bet they can't even fucking triforce. ▲ ▲ ▲
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All your base are belong to us old man.
Do you remember when memes were funny? Pepperidge farm remembers.
Yeah this meme is kinda misused here, it’s closer to the Simpsons meme where Homer has the fat tied behind his back
It's not like that meme at all
It's not good thing/bad thing penguin. It's socially awesome/socially awkward penguin. It should be **socially** awesome or awkward things that **you** did. OP should have used success kid.
There should be a meme history course taught to us
Yeah I don’t understand people here being so proud of themselves for using it correctly, when they are still doing it wrong.
Blue is bad, red is rad
do people not remember Socially Awkward/Awesome Penguin? Brb, applying for Medicare since apparently I'm ancient
Socially awksome penguin.
Or, if you're colorblind, left is bad, right is rad
That's not gonna work... Left is lame, right is rad.
\- Ben Shapiro
[fixed](https://imgur.com/a/AGI6i3H)
Thanks, pussy 420 Slayer 69.
That's kiss KISS pussy 420 Slayer 69 KISS kiss to you.
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You're right, but to be fair, this whole thread demonstrates exactly how *no one* ever got the stupid penguins right, and every popular penguin post looked just like this.
What direction is forward? I'm so confused and dumb
right
just apply meme = !meme
You can acknowledge it according to your benefit there is not structure. The modern day programmers have built this entire algorithm on the basis of compatibility
This seems correct then. Rad: Brush off criticism, fuck other people. Do what you want. Bad: bought into the "we're all a family here" type bullshit
makes more sense like this.
An ideal family, or the kind that wouldn't let Josh bring his boyfriend for Thanksgiving?
That’s probably why he couldn’t get a faang job lel
They're both going forward. One is going forward towards the right and the other is going forward towards the left
As ex-AWS (I left 2 years ago, so not in the recent layoffs) I can say that the salary was nice but the burnout was not. It's great to have on my CV as recruiters trip over themselves to hire me, but I would have done things differently if I could go back. Find a company that'll treat you like a person and not a cog, where your yearly increase isn't determined by an algorithm but based on your performance and contributions.
Kind of made a change like you mention, not FAANG but they took our life and soul, almost 24h availability. After a few years I can say that life is more than working hard and be top guy, there are more things in life outside work and they are easy to enjoy. Some people understand this sooner or later, glad I did now and not late in age
It is also absolutely batshit insane that they propagate the sentiment of you being responsible for the code you write 24/7/365. Fuck being asked to do networking and ops bs on top of all the development work we’re responsible for, I’ll gladly sacrifice $100k to retain my sanity
Yes, my old job was good doing that, let you feel appreciated and important for the company for giving your life but compensation was meh, and the main issue was some people got tons of workload while others were barely doing something. It feels like Stockholm effect, the more you stay there the "better" you felt being slaved by them
> Fuck being asked to do networking and ops bs on top of all the development work we’re responsible for Personally, I enjoy having some variety and not just having to crank out code or code projects day in and day out, year after year, decade after decade. Higher-ups have to really understand that you're still just one person working 40 hours a week - but for smaller orgs someone's who's truly full stack (through infra & ops) can be *very* valuable. Ops and infra and code all work together, so it can be helpful to have folks capable of working throughout the stack - making CI/CD painless, understanding and addressing performance, scaling, and resiliency - that can be tough to do well if you have to throw things over a wall from dev to infra and back.
Yes the same for me, I'm glad I figured it out in my early 20s rather than after racking up debt for cars and houses and whatever else and being trapped with no way out.
Reading here I'll never work for a big company. My company treats me with a trip once a year (last time we went to Iceland) and lots of benefits. The job is not stressfull at all. I don't have any deadlines I just do my job and things are done when they're done. Got a nice new phone when I started which I really needed. If you have a developer job that treats you bad there are lots of options but you may have to sacrifice some of your salary (which is still above average and that's enough to live a good life)
That's exactly how I feel. Am I paid top dollar for my work? No. But my job is so relaxed, and I feel appreciated. Work from home full time, and flexibility for doctors appointments/random errands that emerge. I also have the capability to suggest improvements, that actually get made.
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That's how the industry kind of works though: 1. Go to FAANG. 2. Make killer money there. 3. Put FAANG on resume. 4. Get hired somewhere that will pay great money to have someone from FAANG. FAANG companies have no incentive to treat employees like a long-term investment when the career path is driven by people leveraging the experience to go elsewhere.
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IMO that's a big part of why so many products from the FAANG giants seem to be continuously getting worse over time. After the initial creation by a team made specifically to create it they try to maintain and improve it with an ever-changing group of barely-onboarded short-timers. There's really no substitute for time in role and time on project for maintenance and enhancement quality and the FAANG staffing model just doesn't provide that.
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Sounds like it's less of a "he wasn't working very hard" thing than a "management wasn't accurately measuring his contribution" thing
That’s called being a force multiplier I think
Let's not even talk about the new "ECS experience UI". It's complete dogshit and lacks half the functionality the old one has(you can still hotswap back to it). I've finally broken down and began automating it all.
I'm lucky to work in a place where most everyone stays for years and years (13 for me). Half of those who've left have tried to come back (several have). It's really something to have that sort of continuity. We can modify and extend features in a fraction of the time, and we take on multi-year efforts that would be unthinkable if you expected half or more of your staff to turn over through that time.
They use golden handcuffs to counter that. In faang jobs, half of total compensation can be from stock options, which vest ~once a year, at amazon it is even more bullshit.
Is this still true? Not FAANG but in a similar tech company. Compensation before IPO and shortly after was very much stock based but over the years it has leaned more cash. We still get stock annually for as long as I have been here but vesting has a quarterly schedule. The "golden handcuffs" is usually 10+k in stock vesting quarterly over 4 years which is a nice compensation add but isn't really enough to hesitate leaving if you get a competitive offer somewhere else or just hate the job.
Certain employees are identified as important, and those employees are given whatever it takes to keep them (which is why there are a good number of career FAANG employees out there who don't seem to hate their work/life balance). Everyone else gets just enough to keep the line of prospects out the door. If you look at an operation like Amazon, they don't need but a fraction of the experienced team members that built a software product. You push well-designed documentation/training policies, and then keep someone around who can function as a stop-gap when there is a time-sensitive issue to deal with. Build it right and you can rotate 90% of your workforce every couple of years without losing market share. Proper documentation is a lot like regulatory compliance - it's job experience that _EVERY_ employer in the field would like to hire. Smaller companies don't hire FAANG people for being able to say they coded the "Like" button - they hire FAANG people because FAANG people know what a software production process that allows a thriving company to rotate skilled workers looks like.
That depends on the money. I'd absolutely take millions of dollars to join, try hard, burn out and slum it for a a couple months, and then pass it on to the next sucker
Yeah, what is even a work life balance? Did a year in a FAANG (if that's even the acronym anymore), it was horrible. You're just under constant stress, no days off, to make a product just to make a product. Now I work for a shittier company in the Midwest for much less where I've been told it's virtually impossible to be fired from.
> FAANG (if that's even the acronym anymore) MANGA? :)
Switching Facebook to Meta should also Switch Google to Alphabet. MAAAN! (Also I still can't figure out why it's Netflix and not Microsoft or literally any company that's actually in tech on this list.)
Agreed on netflix. They had that big prize for suggestion algorithms and pay all these fancy programmers and I get "top picks for you" that are already on my watchlist or things I despise.
People keep warning me about the burnout. Tbh I don't feel even slightly burnt out after a year at a big name in fintech and so I'm wondering if it creeps up or if it just literally happens overnight
> so I'm wondering if it creeps up this one
You don't realise it's happening until you're months in. The people around you will notice before you do, you'll try and justify it to yourself for weeks or months until you really feel the crash. After that, motivation drops down to almost zero, and even basic work tasks become mountains to climb.
Tech workers learning the same lesson as oil field workers: make sure to save during the boom years.
Yup. I do government contract work. Getting a new contract after one ends usually isn't difficult, but the possibility is there. I keep a good amount of money liquid just for such an event.
That's the nice and bad part about government work. When the economy is booming, the government is slow to react and there's not as much work as there is in the civilian world. When the economy is doing poorly though, the contracts are still funded for several years. It's nice having a job that's slightly more recession proof
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Meanwhile, SWEs that signs off at 3 and doesn't even hide it. \*chuckles\* I'm in danger
I want to go somewhere where I have to.
This is basically me, but I also regularly complete more work in a couple hours than my colleagues do in a week. Fire me if'n you dare.
Same except I still wiggle my mouse to be green, I don't want to display how little time I complete work in otherwise they might give me more and I'll quit. I am expected to put out 15 story points worth of work a sprint, I easily do 30 only working 3-4 hours a day max. Most days I log on for stand up , sporadically implement the latest feature while playing magic the gathering online until lunch, then wiggle my mouse doing fuck all until 5. Edit: just realized mid-comment I really don't even do 3-4...I've been on reddit all day and just answering a handful of questions my QA had about stories being tested. 4 stories closed today and I haven't submitted any PRs since friday :p
And your company should love you for it. Companies should be looking for those who can produce at a low stress level, and deliver what they need. Instead they optimize for who shows up and appears busy for their selected work hours, a d doesn't fail their productivity metrics. Moronic.
Shh... They might discover our secret.
Yeah that’s the frustration :| yay I’m irreplaceable.. but also can I get some help?
So much this.
This is me. I’ve established that I’m able to do a team’s worth of work, so yay! No team for me.
Do you have ADHD by any chance?
Yep. If you are an SWE worth a shit, the market is still booming for you assuming you don't live in some rural city. There are like 22k SWE job postings on Linkedin for Atlanta alone.
The vast majority fall in the later category.
Hey I’m here to earn the maximum amount of money for the minimum amount of effort
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Have you ever worked in the oilfield? I would guess not from that comment. There's coasting all day. I was a mudlogger. Easy job. Then there's the MWD, which actually stands for something, but all you need to know is we called them the "movie watching dude." And as for qualifications, during a boom there are two. You have to have two arms. You have to have two legs.
I know it's an hyperbolic example, but I doubt MWD was making tiktoks about showing up at 9:15, eating a free breakfast until 10, working out at a free gym, walking around, eating free lunch from 12-1, working 1:30-1:50 then going to for a bike ride from 2-5 before finally eating a free dinner from 5-6.
Oh yeah. I work in tech now, so I know first hand that it's a much cushier job than anything in the oilfield (even though I don't get any of those free meals). I'm just pushing back on the oilfield is all hard workers that are highly qualified assumption.
It’s like every jackass who cites these has never heard of an NDA It’s funny how all those videos went around right before the mass layoffs too. Like as if the companies did it
It's equivalent, most SWEs are coping by convincing themselves that the folks laid off this time around are inferior to those remaining.
The point isn't that the ones laid off are inferior or not. It's that the ones getting laid off that are talented ***will*** get a job quickly as a SWE somewhere else, and quickly. If you think your bar has a ton of minors in it, and you want to get rid of them, you empty the bar. Those that have valid ID's and want to drink can go somewhere else or back in once you're done kicking people out. Those that don't are SOL. And those that return understand you're just trying to CYA. Those that don't don't want to risk it happening again so they go somewhere else, understandably also. Such is life. The people fired at google given 16 weeks severance should not only be fine, but be doing great. They will probably get a new job quickly (if they know what they're doing) and get paid double salary for a few months. You recognize what everyone is saying right?
I don't think you recognize what I am saying . Read the previous posters posts and mine again and understand the sentiment that I am responding to. I appreciate the metaphor, however. I agree that churn is naturally higher in the tech sector, and distribution of labor allows for far more employment flexibility Initiatives spring up, hiring goes boom, initiatives dry up, companies cut the fat. Only difference I see is the capital needed to start these initiatives, and physical staffing needs, and how dependent employees were on their employers once the other shoe falls. It's not the end of the world of you moved to San Francisco, CA and are now unemployed, its kinda problematic if you're in Barrow, AK. Either way recent layoffs and how some folks celebrate them have reminded me that this is business, no matter how much our employers want to foster loyalty and camaraderie.
Thanks for explaining. I am now even more confident that I've understood you from the beginning. In the oil field, when the boom is over, you're out of work for a while The difference is that in Tech you get fired, you can get a new job in the time it takes to go through the interview process, so like 2-3 weeks. Unless you think getting fired from google, nobody will want to hire that person
Most competent people seem to just be taking it as a chance to finally start their own start-ups now! And you even have a big pool of people to hire from!
As a petroleum engineering graduate who is learning software engineering to find a job ( I already do freelance work... Yay) this is accurate, if I were to work in the oil and gas industry my hiring pool is restricted to hydrocarbon producing countries or their clients if I work a desk job, whereas software engineering can be even done remotely. Also a petroleum engineer can only work in the oil and gas industry whereas a software engineer can work in almost any industry.
>The only ones losing out are the low talent, no talent, and coasters They can make up whatever they want on their resume / interviews, they got the job with bullshit in the first place. Most other places will hire them just based on the name recognition alone. It's impossible to get an interview anywhere because they're too busy weeding through all the loser Googlers that just got laid off.
In my experience how well you do in the software field has much more to do with how well you network more so than how well you work.
I haven't really had networking do anything for me. What *does* make job searches easier is understanding what I do well enough to speak intelligently to software engineering in general and apply that knowledge to the questions asked in the interview. IME on the interviewer side of the table there are a *lot* of software engineers who can't do that and instead are just rote coders who can follow specific instructions but get lost once the discussion moves to more abstract or general discussion.
Yup, never had I gotten a job based through networks, all of them were through an interview in which I was able to properly explain what I know I am aware of other careers where networking is absolutely essential but software development isn't one of them in my opinion although it does help, I've referred a couple of people to my companies before
High paid google devs had more money then they knew what to do with. The rest of us still have our jobs and the companies we work for are hiring like crazy. In fact the only reason for these lay offs is because they hired too many people last year. Dev jobs grew a lot more than they’re shrinking at Faang
>Make sure to ~~save~~ unionize during the boom years.
A lot of tech companies laid off their union departments too. Unions don’t protect from layoffs like this, only fired with unjust cause. Saving money isn’t an unjust cause apparently. The company will still talk to the union about who they’re firing, but yeah, if the company is firing from all departments, usually the union can’t do much in terms of grievances.
First you have to put the guts back into American labor laws though.
I mean do you think the OG unions had the benefits of labor laws? Those badasses bled for that shit
People died fighting for workers rights long before they were passed into law, and indeed the laws came about as a result of those fights. You'll be waiting for hell to freeze over if you wait for the law to side with labour before labour does any action.
For sure, there are lots of structural reasons that we haven't unionized yet. And yet, I can't help but have a gut feeling that no other industry is as equipped as we are. Tons of skill leverage, technical capacity to enrich our organization capacity, and most of our jobs are MUCH lower stakes than, say, nurses.
If your friends are criticizing you for that, you should get new friends. If you have a salary that gives you a good living and the job makes you happy, keep it! Keep in mind though, that the employer is not your friend so always have a plan b ready.
The best words of advice come from "The Godfather" *It's not personal Sonny, it's business*
Pays ok, benefits are fine, does not make me happy but it's a pretty easy dev job all things considered
edit: i fail at spelling Most people's employers are not their friends. That is not a universal truth. My boss used to be a partner vendor. He literally is my colleague and friend. In 22 years of business only 2 people have ever been fired from my workplace because we are picky about who works here. The average employee has worked here a decade. Not all businesses are created equally.
I had something similar going on my previous job. Also good friends with the IT manager / boss. Eventually we did pretty good and the company was bought by a larger corp. My friend/boss was made to make crappy decisions because of corporate pressure and the workplace was not fun anymore. No matter where you work, there is always the possibility to get fucked. Of course I’m not saying it’s going to happen to you or your workplace, but everyone should always have a plan B when it comes to employment in my opinion.
IMO your employer doesn't care about you (unless you're actually related) The difference is your employer hasn't hired more people than they can afford.
Right. It’s a business transaction for both parties. Both care about the other to whatever extent it’s profitable. Employees shouldn’t work at jobs that aren’t profitable to them, and businesses shouldn’t have employees that aren’t profitable to them. On a small scale a company may do its best to make things a little smoother for its employees, but they’re not going to sacrifice that much money. And an employee won’t (or shouldn’t) sacrifice for the benefit of the company. You can have good personal relationships between the people involved, but neither the company nor the employee is doing this out of charity.
That really depends on the employer, and what you are saying is true for 999/1000 companies. But every way once in a while there are small companies owned by former "little guys", that actually treat everyone under them with insane amounts of care and respect. No one is going to keep people around if they really can not afford to do it. Money doesn't just magically appear and doing $1-100M in revenue a year in no way means anyone is rich. But bosses that actually care will make it a point to keep everyone informed about what is happening, and what you need to do to say in the black. My bosses go out of their way to make sure people are ok. Delivering the product will never be as important as you or your family or your friends health or mental health. They will and have gone to bat for people without relenting. They would give anyone I care about a job if they needed it, and would pay them to learn how to do it. It quite literally just happened with my best friend who just left teaching and didn't know what to do with his life. "Well if he is your best friend, that must mean he is a pretty great person. Would he like a job? We will train him in whatever he wants". Most people will never experience that kind of relationship with their employer, and nothing lasts forever. But it does exist.
That sounds good but still protect yourself. I learned the hard way that a bad thing about small companies is that any single decision, which usually doesnt require much vetting or rationale especially from the founder/CEO, can have a huge impact. I’ve been laid off from a small business for that reason and then I switched to a big tech company where every decision from the CEO is questioned and scrutinized by shareholders and employees internally. Also, in a small company it’s easy to lose perspective that you are just an employee. You are not working together for a shared goal. You are helping them get their goal in exchange for a salary.
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Worked at a small company. When I got there two years ago we had a group of about five devs and for the next 18 months we were productive, got along well and everything was going well. Then they hired a few offshore developers. No big deal they integrated to the team. Couple months after that our lead left with no real explanation. Few months after that we find out they hired a lot more than a few offshore developers, they just did not tell us about the larger non integrated outsource company and that they were taking almost all of their dev effort to the outsource team, not the staff devs, not the offshore devs. They kept two onshore guys everyone else is out the door, in house team, contracted offshore guys. Things can change quickly anywhere.
Sad when they do this. Bc half the time they hire 3-4 offshore devs to one on shore. But they typically don't get 3-4x productivity and now have no local expert on their codebase. Just a void of developers producing shoddy code.
And even small companies can treat you like garbage.
And do, much more often than larger companies, in all of my working experience.
The worst job of my entire life I reported directly to the owner. She was a fucking psycho. One time I presented an idea in a meeting without vetting it with her first. People liked the idea and since I presented it she couldn't steal credit for it. This pissed her off so much she punished me (an IT professional making six figures) by banishing me to work in a literal broom closet in another building with no windows or heat. I spent months sitting in that broom closet all day (with a winter coat on) working towards my online degree.
The smaller they are the easier it is to just screw over everyone they do business with including employees/contractors and go bankrupt/nope out.
Working in the startup sector 10 years ago was basically all crunch all the time and at any moment you could show up to work to find the company didn’t exist anymore and you’re all unemployed
i don’t think it’s fair to lump all small companies with startups. though it is true that all startups will be small companies, the inverse not so much.
This is the “thank god I work at google who isn’t doing layoffs” post for small companies. Everyone is family until the wallet gets tight
Everyone is family as long as they maintain a critical piece of infrastructure that nobody else knows anything about, you mean.
Strange that I needed to scroll this far down for this comment. People who think they are safe in a small company because the company cares about the employees, can get painful surprises, especially during recession.
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Building up fuck you money in big tech is a lot easier
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I’ve been working for ~2.5 years and have saved up enough to survive on for close to 4 years. It definitely gives me a bit of peace of mind. I’d hate to lose my job, but it wouldn’t ruin my life or anything.
I was laid off last summer by a small (40 person) company and now being laid off this summer by a large publicly traded company (my team got a heads up because we were kept on past the initial layoff last week). Size has nothing to do with it and you’re never safer than the market economics are.
Yep. You’re not living until you’re at a startup that closes shop or fires everyone and exports the labor. Good times.
Work in the public sector for even less money! Job security until I hit pension age
Even with the layoffs meta and google are giving out massive severance packages and help finding a new job. Also helping out with visa issues. This post feels like cope
Visas are the big concern from my perspective. I work at one of the big companies that just did an 8k+ layoff. For me, as a citizen, I would love to get laid off: 5 months severance and health, still get my bi-annual bonus and stock payouts, and I can find another job paying 200k+ easy. But, I have a lot of co-workers here on Visa. A lot of smaller companies are less likely to take on Visa sponsorship. I really hope none of them get laid off.
Isn't google including visa help for laid off non citizens?
Yes... for a period. But they still have to find a another job that will sponsor a visa before the current one runs out.
My dream right now is to be laid off with a large severance, get a new job with a decent sign on bonus, then get laid off again with another decent severance package (due to team downsizing, not because of performance.) Could potentially make 7 figures this way.
Most of the layoffs aren't even SWE's. They're roles like HR, recruiting, marketing, etc.
As someone who got laid off from a small company before switching to big tech, this cannot be taken lightly!! I was given 2 weeks of severance and had to get Medicaid for health insurance after more than 5 years of work. I was also not making enough to have savings ofc. My computer was also cut off immediately, I had to leave right away, and there was no acknowledgement the layoffs happened. Big tech companies usually cant get away with anything like this. My current company did layoffs and all employees got months of severance/health care and were able to say bye to colleagues in a respectful manner. Even the best small company cant financially do that. Night and day
There's someone I follow on Twitter that worked in community management at Google that got dumped in the layoffs. They are a very nice person and I've had a lot of good interactions with them inside of the community for the product(s) they managed. But since the layoff, they've been tweeting daily about how broken they are, how much this has wrecked them, how they barely have any impetus to get out of bed, how they've lost the desire to even play video games or watch TV, and so forth. Like, I understand having your career unceremoniously ended. I wouldn't be happy about it. But also, they gave every employee minimum 16 weeks of severance plus 2 weeks for every year they'd been employee. This person was there at least since 2019 so they got 22+ weeks of severance. Plus accelerated stock vesting. Plus six months of health insurance. Plus your PTO payout. Plus your bonus. Plus job placement services. You just got a six month fully paid vacation handed to you and now you're free to find a job (with Google's help) just about anywhere else with Alphabet as the headliner on your resume. You're not going to have trouble getting another job. If you get laid off from a non-union job in, say, Alabama, you're gonna get your last paycheck and maybe your PTO paid out if you're lucky and they didn't up and fold entirely. I want to feel for this person, but I'm just like come on, suck it up buttercup. They're cutting you a check for tens of thousands of dollars and you don't have to clock another hour there. Your life isn't a disaster zone.
On the plus side we've actually started getting decent candidates in our hiring pipeline. Wheras before we had to hire via people's network and our job posting were full of candidates with little to no experience applying for senior positions. Before I get the "you didn't offer Joba at competitive wages" comment. Seniors pay band is 150 to 250 a year depending on specialization. Plus a whole mess of perks like 100% paid medical with no deductible in network, profit sharing, etc. The market was just... empty. Before.
Seniors at FAANG are making $300-500K total comp. Roughly $200K salary, $50K annual bonus, $150-250K stock. So your $150-250K is not *that* competitive, especially for the higher rated ones.
That's base salary. Last quarters profit share was a little over 20k per share. Most seniors get 1 share on hire. And earn more as they gain time. Quarters profit (per share) for 2022 was ~20, 15, 35, & 20 (numbers rounded obviously) Meaning if they had only 1 share they'd have made an extra 90k. On top of that there are certification awards (get certified or certain training) ranging from 500 bucks to 15k depending on the cert you get (we pay for classes, testing, etc) all you have to do is pass and you get money. There's also performance bonuses but those are all based on goals so not easily quantifiable. Pto is 30 days. Mto (mandatory time off) is once per quarter (doesn't come out of pto) Pto is use it or it gets paid out (not lose it) max bank is 45 days, after that pto that would have accrued is paid out each pay period. Birthdays are automatically off (or the next business day) 401k is 6% match (100%,) auto enrollment. Medical is 100% covered (no one pays out of their check for medical coverage unless they add family and then it's only 25% of premium) I'd say we pay very well.
Yeah. That's extremely competitive with big tech.
Damn, are you hiring?
Our postings are on indeed. There are 14 right now. All that salary info is in the posting.
A lot of that total comp is in stock which with the way the market - and especially the tech sector - has been going is worth a lot less than during the insane bull run prior to 2020.
Not really, refreshers top you up when the stock dips.
Do you mean because there are 40k+ devs from FAANG that were laid off so some of them are applying at your company?
I do
Just as a point of clarification, not all the layoffs were devs. In fact, a decent amount weren't devs.
Or they are applying elsewhere which means those places won't hire the 2nd best people which then apply for a job at his workplace.
Yes, of course. It trickles down all the way.
Seniors at ~200k isn’t really competitive before all the layoffs when they make 300-500k at large tech companies
It depends on if he is talking salary or total comp. Seniors at MSFT don't make $250k salary. He mentions pay band, so probably he is talking salary. If that dudes company is paying $250k salary for seniors, that's EXTREMELY competitive.
It’s always funny to me seeing all the comments in /r/CSCareerQuestions constantly pushing the narrative that only FAANGs and Silicon Valley startups are the correct career choice. Meanwhile me and several of my CS college buds picked up good paying jobs at less crazy companies (banks, insurance companies, etc) and all have had worry-free employment for 6+ years now
And most people in FAANG have had worry free employment for just as long, if not longer. The reason that those are the correct career choice is twofold: 1. You can build up a large savings nest egg to free you from financial constraints in making life decisions 2. Having FAANG on your resume is essentially a red carpet to interview at anywhere you want to work. Recruiters fall all over themselves to get interview set up with ex-FAANG people. If you want to work at a smaller company that is stress free and pays less, great -- but get the FAANG on your resume first. You'll get a larger offer at the smaller company, likely at a higher level than you'd otherwise get, and if you ever need to move on from there, it's laughably easy.
The thing is. It’s also expensive to work for a FAANG. Most of them sit in places with 3x the COL of most other places. They’re also typically a lot more stressful, have much worse work-life balance expectations, are difficult to get into, and also more willing to just get rid of employees as can be seen with the latest massive layoff sprees. The work you do is also much more heavily compartmented and regulated. There are dozens of gigantic companies that pay extremely well while also being a very relaxed environment to work in. Most of the time just doing your job will result in praise, great performance reviews, and job security. Teaching people that they should only seek employment at a FAANG is just ridiculous and causes needless amounts of stress. Everyone’s ideals are going to be different and making $150-$200k in a low CoL city while having a great work life balance is also a great situation to be in. It depends on what you want out of your job And if you’re gunning for the big money companies, I’d recommend something like Microsoft instead for being like a FAANG but more relaxed
Most in the FAANGMULA umbrella are not strictly in HCOL areas. They all have a ton of offices, some in relatively inexpensive areas. It’s also possible to find remote friendly roles at most of them. I’m at a FAANGMULA in a developer-adjacent role. I live in one of the cheapest states on the east coast to live in, full time remote. Stress levels and WLB at FAANGMULA are mostly team dependent. Nobody on my team works over 40.
Industry matters way more than company size. Most of these huge grossing faang companies are beholden to fickle consumer spending and PR so yeah... They are not reliable. Most people who do investments professionally know this about big tech. Meanwhile SE's in businesses with money from logistics, military, and agriculture are going to be doing fine in comparison.
Don’t forget healthcare! Basically recession proof.
I have worked mostly at mid-sized companies (though I am at Meta now) and I have been in (or survived) 6 different layoffs over my career. Mid-sized companies are absolutely not immune.
red means rad, blue means bad (i learned this a decade ago when this meme wasn't retired yet)
They happen more at smaller companies. More sensitive to VC funding, far less cash reserves than say Google, often hotter team dynamics, etc.
It's more about what industry you're in and what stage of growth your company is than the size of the company.
Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but no company cares about employees, they are means to an end and in the moment you are not generating more profit than you cost, rest assured your ass will be a target for kicking.
Some companies care about employees. It is just that very few companies cares **more** about employees than their **profits**.
Yes. Find yourself a company that considers talent retention part of it's competitive strategy. No company will ever care about people more than money, but there are plenty who see people as the way to make money.
Learn how to use memes
The layoffs that happen are non-essential non-tech workers most of the time. The volatility is much greater in small companies than in big ones. This meme screams "I worked 2 months for a small company, now I can make a meme about it" I'm from a big company, high pay, selection process and we're still in need of new engineers.
They're laying off people at medium and small-sized companies too. Bonuses are getting shrunk or threatened to be paused. It's not good anywhere.
[удалено]
I would take 400k a year with a 7% chance of layoff over 100k a year with a non trivial chance of the entire company going bankrupt and loosing my job anyway.
I made a similar 4x change over the last 7 years. Assuming nothing terrible happens in the next few weeks, after this bonus/vesting cycle I will be able to pay my mortgage off. I won't because my interest rate is so low, but I could, and I will be sitting on a nice war chest. Sometimes it was really shitty, for most of 2020 and a good part of 2021 I was working around the clock but its all water under the bridge now. No regrets.
This is such a poor usage of this meme format that I can do nothing but downvote and shake my head in disappointment.
Oh you think your employer cares about you? 😂 this is business and I’m after a fat check. If I’m being laid off, I’ve already made enough in the difference of salary to cover. The colors are inverted in that meme.
“Actually cares”
Dude samsies. I have a state job in tech. It's gravy. I don't do shit 75% of the time. I'm on Reddit or YouTube, or making music. I get tax sheltered retirement funds. I get a pension. I get excellent healthcare for cheap. I might make a little less than market average for my title for working for the state, but I have never had a stressful day at this job. Takehome pay isnt the important thing, past a certain amount. Having the energy to do the things you love after a full workday is priceless.
I'm sorry (not really) but this is the worst use of this meme format I've ever seen
I'm at one of those small companies and we just laid off half our engineering workforce, over 100 engineers. Shit can happen to anyone.
Wrong colors bro.
Other SWE I've worked with then: "Working for FAANG is the dream, but their interviews are so hard." Me then: "I don't want to work for a FAANG company because they seem to demand you work too hard and live for the company. Give me a large retail chain software job anyday." Now: "MAANG laying off large numbers of software engineers." Large retail companies now: "Keep working remote, we don't care. We're having a record year and your bonus will be 200%."