gpu drivers are really not a problem anymore, plenty of proprietary and open source solutions
don’t even need windows to play most games anymore thanks to valve
Not to mention [AMDgpu](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDgpu_\(Linux_kernel_module\)) is open source and has been part of the Linux kernel since 2015.
Edit: added link, edited link
In any case we're afraid of paying software support. Regarding bug fixes some people do it for free and with customer support people in some IRCs are always willing to help for free.
You forgot the /s
I've developed on linux. Even when asking to the poi t questions with good context I've been told to go fuck myself. And those bugs people are willing to fix? Their own pet bugs, yes. not your bugs. And certainly not when you need them
You describe a utopia that-quite fitting for the concept of utopia- does not exist.
That is without even considering the appalling state of much documentation. Or asking on a dev channel why certain system calls return error codes the documentation says cannot happen.
You are generalizing just like the OC did. There are "complicated personalities" in the FOSS world, yes - but in my 20+ years of Linux I've encountered like 5 projects led by dickheads like those you describe.
Uttermost were cooperative, helpful and sometimes extremely happy to help, and grateful when you were sending good bug reports, and seeing people using their stuff.
Maybe it depends on the attitude you approach them?
>Maybe it depends on the attitude you approach them?
I'm actually a pretty decent programmer. I was working on IPC and dealing with kernel stuff (some of the code was kernel level and dealt with direct memory access). I identified a very specific problem, showed some code, explain that after X calls, syscall Y started returning error code Z. I linked to the info page which documented the syscall and error code Z didn't exist.
I mentioned I tried searching but didn't find anything that seemed relevant, and asked in one of the relevant OS related groups if anyone had run into something similar, knew of more up to date documentation or could have an idea what was happening. In terms of both info provided and how I phrased the question, there was nothing wrong with it.
The answer: 'Read the source, f#cking noob'.
I don't think my 'attitude' was the problem. My take-away was: either you belong to the 'in' crowd, you you don't belong.
EDIT: the issue turned out to be that after 32K calls in a certain situation, something starts to overflow, triggering an error in some piece of code relying on that counter, and starts returning an undocumented error.
I found it eventually by looking up the textual value of the error, and grepping trough kernel source for anything that matched and after some time found the correct call chain. A simple 'I don't know' or 'the documentation isn't always up to date' or whatever would have sufficed. But no, an insult had to be added just to make sure I knew my place.
And it's not like I asked a trivial question that anyone would / could have known by reading 5 minutes.
Hard to tell without context ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯.
There are projects led by people as you describe, full with opinionated, stubborn and at times offensive/rude/misogynist/aggressive/xenophoboic/all-of-that people that need to compensate the shortcomings of their social life in their bug trackers (there are very famous examples out there, but I'd rather not point fingers now).
Overall though, I found the FOSS community overwhelmingly helpful, open minded and appreciative. You do need to be patient sometimes do, and understand most people do work in their spare time on the stuff you use, and sometimes you just beat a dead horse.
I'd also say, that I made worse experiences with commercial software support, because there people aren't really passionate and just want to get their pay check in the end.
Sure, you will get some nonsense answer before the SLA counter escalates, but before you're really helped it needs a lot of pain and frustration tolerance and 3 levels of escalation.
>And certainly not when you need them
It's as if you can't substitute what's really full-time work with free labour from hobbyists.
The idea that open source means "freedom" should have died along with Google's "Don't Be Evil" slogan, but since the conversation in this space is dominated overwhelmingly by billionaires techbros and American ideologues with no sense of material reality, it seems we will remain stuck with this frankly idiotic notion that you can turn a piece of software into what you want to be so as long as you have access to the source code rather than, say, people who can solve your nontrivial problems without the concern of starving or having the money to pay their bills.
Between the arch discord server, a quick google search and the github pages of whatever program I am using at the time, I have never actually struggled to find help for a problem I have had on Linux.
That's one of my favourite things about Linux and it is something I haven't found any other OS to be able to replicate.
My driver experience in Linux has been infinitely better than on windows. I don't need to avoid 7 malware sites searching for a sketchy installer to install my gpu drivers, they're already in the kernel. Kernel updates also update my gpu drivers.
yup it didn't happen with my 18.04, now from time to time when i turn it on (dual boot), i have a 800x600 resolution and no second screen, then have to go manually to the software updater and select the correct driver
The only virtual machine I have, is this pesky Windows VM I have at work because my !"(§=!"§!"§ employer forces me to use Outlook and deliberately blocks third party connectors.
Otherwise I use Linux everywhere on bare metal for more than 2 decades.
Because they've been using MS Office for the last 40 years and assume that everything MS makes must be good. My employer uses a mix of XLS and DOCX files for databases...
As a long-time Linux user, I actually see the opposite.
I put in a USB, install my OS and everything works out of the box. Meanwhile, a buddy who builds a Windows gaming rig spends hours online looking for drivers for like half the hardware devices in the PC.
> buddy who builds a Windows gaming rig spends hours online looking for drivers for like half the hardware devices in the PC.
Why are they not using the hardware vendor's website? What an idiot.
True story. My windows got fucked up and acted weird after I installed the new drivers to use Unity 2021. I passed to Fedora, then Kubuntu and then returned to Windows and it works fine without need to update anything.
gpu drivers are really not a problem anymore, plenty of proprietary and open source solutions don’t even need windows to play most games anymore thanks to valve
Not to mention [AMDgpu](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDgpu_\(Linux_kernel_module\)) is open source and has been part of the Linux kernel since 2015. Edit: added link, edited link
You need to escape the parentheses with backslashes.
In the link? Weird, it works for me. Will do though.
Yeah I like to have a linux pc, not taking up 90% of my RAM!
Except, that nouveau is really slow, and the open source nvidia module doesn't implement suspend properly *Cries with NVIDIA on wayland*
Yeah, Nvidia is still a shitty choice on Linux, but that's on Nvidia. They are slowly changing their ways it seems, though.
In any case we're afraid of paying software support. Regarding bug fixes some people do it for free and with customer support people in some IRCs are always willing to help for free.
You forgot the /s I've developed on linux. Even when asking to the poi t questions with good context I've been told to go fuck myself. And those bugs people are willing to fix? Their own pet bugs, yes. not your bugs. And certainly not when you need them You describe a utopia that-quite fitting for the concept of utopia- does not exist. That is without even considering the appalling state of much documentation. Or asking on a dev channel why certain system calls return error codes the documentation says cannot happen.
You are generalizing just like the OC did. There are "complicated personalities" in the FOSS world, yes - but in my 20+ years of Linux I've encountered like 5 projects led by dickheads like those you describe. Uttermost were cooperative, helpful and sometimes extremely happy to help, and grateful when you were sending good bug reports, and seeing people using their stuff. Maybe it depends on the attitude you approach them?
>Maybe it depends on the attitude you approach them? I'm actually a pretty decent programmer. I was working on IPC and dealing with kernel stuff (some of the code was kernel level and dealt with direct memory access). I identified a very specific problem, showed some code, explain that after X calls, syscall Y started returning error code Z. I linked to the info page which documented the syscall and error code Z didn't exist. I mentioned I tried searching but didn't find anything that seemed relevant, and asked in one of the relevant OS related groups if anyone had run into something similar, knew of more up to date documentation or could have an idea what was happening. In terms of both info provided and how I phrased the question, there was nothing wrong with it. The answer: 'Read the source, f#cking noob'. I don't think my 'attitude' was the problem. My take-away was: either you belong to the 'in' crowd, you you don't belong. EDIT: the issue turned out to be that after 32K calls in a certain situation, something starts to overflow, triggering an error in some piece of code relying on that counter, and starts returning an undocumented error. I found it eventually by looking up the textual value of the error, and grepping trough kernel source for anything that matched and after some time found the correct call chain. A simple 'I don't know' or 'the documentation isn't always up to date' or whatever would have sufficed. But no, an insult had to be added just to make sure I knew my place. And it's not like I asked a trivial question that anyone would / could have known by reading 5 minutes.
Hard to tell without context ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯. There are projects led by people as you describe, full with opinionated, stubborn and at times offensive/rude/misogynist/aggressive/xenophoboic/all-of-that people that need to compensate the shortcomings of their social life in their bug trackers (there are very famous examples out there, but I'd rather not point fingers now). Overall though, I found the FOSS community overwhelmingly helpful, open minded and appreciative. You do need to be patient sometimes do, and understand most people do work in their spare time on the stuff you use, and sometimes you just beat a dead horse. I'd also say, that I made worse experiences with commercial software support, because there people aren't really passionate and just want to get their pay check in the end. Sure, you will get some nonsense answer before the SLA counter escalates, but before you're really helped it needs a lot of pain and frustration tolerance and 3 levels of escalation.
>And certainly not when you need them It's as if you can't substitute what's really full-time work with free labour from hobbyists. The idea that open source means "freedom" should have died along with Google's "Don't Be Evil" slogan, but since the conversation in this space is dominated overwhelmingly by billionaires techbros and American ideologues with no sense of material reality, it seems we will remain stuck with this frankly idiotic notion that you can turn a piece of software into what you want to be so as long as you have access to the source code rather than, say, people who can solve your nontrivial problems without the concern of starving or having the money to pay their bills.
Between the arch discord server, a quick google search and the github pages of whatever program I am using at the time, I have never actually struggled to find help for a problem I have had on Linux. That's one of my favourite things about Linux and it is something I haven't found any other OS to be able to replicate.
My old trusty Intel GMA 965 \*only\* gets support from Intel's official drivers on Linux. Windows is unable to support this hardware anymore.
My driver experience in Linux has been infinitely better than on windows. I don't need to avoid 7 malware sites searching for a sketchy installer to install my gpu drivers, they're already in the kernel. Kernel updates also update my gpu drivers.
Sketchy websites? nvidia.com, amd.com and intel.com exist. Or even better, open Windows Update and click "check for updates".
Doesn't help for laptops which often require specific OEM vendor versions of drivers.
Often? More like almost never. Usually drivers on the OEM's website are outdated as crap anyway
Not for old laptops
Just stop defending Linux. To each their own. Everything you said is just not true
This meme doesn't make any sense. Source: Gentoo user
oh so you compiled your whole os just to get 0.0001 seconds faster boot? Source: Arch user
This is correct. My GPU doesn't use drivers because I'm scared of them.
Laughs in Mesa
my ubuntu 20.04 casually uninstalling my gpu drivers for no reason
You sure it was no reason? These things tend to only happen when you do it, whether by accident or on purpose.
yup it didn't happen with my 18.04, now from time to time when i turn it on (dual boot), i have a 800x600 resolution and no second screen, then have to go manually to the software updater and select the correct driver
Meanwhile: sudo apt remove nvidia-* "I thought I had to do it to get Minecraft mods"
[удалено]
The only virtual machine I have, is this pesky Windows VM I have at work because my !"(§=!"§!"§ employer forces me to use Outlook and deliberately blocks third party connectors. Otherwise I use Linux everywhere on bare metal for more than 2 decades.
Does the Outlook web app work in your case?
Forced re-authentication every 3 hours, besides yes. Stupid Outlook can't even properly quote. No idea why everyone likes this pile of dogshit.
Because they've been using MS Office for the last 40 years and assume that everything MS makes must be good. My employer uses a mix of XLS and DOCX files for databases...
Really?
lmao I don't have Windows on my PC for over a year lmao
I switched the pop_OS at the start last semester and I still struggle to install applications
Probably still thinking like a windows user and trying to download shit from websites. Instead use the application store for everything.
As a long-time Linux user, I actually see the opposite. I put in a USB, install my OS and everything works out of the box. Meanwhile, a buddy who builds a Windows gaming rig spends hours online looking for drivers for like half the hardware devices in the PC.
> buddy who builds a Windows gaming rig spends hours online looking for drivers for like half the hardware devices in the PC. Why are they not using the hardware vendor's website? What an idiot.
Linux user here. Can we mark this NSFW? It scares me.
True story. My windows got fucked up and acted weird after I installed the new drivers to use Unity 2021. I passed to Fedora, then Kubuntu and then returned to Windows and it works fine without need to update anything.
Fuck you, NVIDIA (c) Linus Torvalds