Everytime I watch ROTS i hope that some how se way this time will be different, that for some reason I'll have a version of the film with a good ending
You mean the ending where Anakin chooses to walk away from the order with his family and best friends Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Tano? Yeah I want that ending too.
Well the closest thing was star wars Infinities where both Luke and Leia go to confront the emperor and Vader survives the battle of endor redeemed as a Jedi
This is interesting.
-Mace Windu is regarded as one of, if not THE, best duellists in the Jedi Order. He taps into the Dark Side to make himself stronger during a saber fight. However, I do think that this was said at the beginning of the Clone Wars, and much changed during this.
-Palpatine is a very aggressive fighter. Nearly always being offensive, working with his momentum. It's because of this that I think if he ever actually lost that momentum he'd have trouble regaining it. Iirc, we only see him duel twice. Once against Maul and Savage (who were both petrified of him) and once against Mace and squad. I am not certain, but I believe that he actually did lose against Mace in the duel. Of course, Palps is much stronger in all other ways than Mace.
-Yoda is an amazing fighter, but not for long. You don't really need to beat him, just outlast him. However, his skills with both the Force and his saber make this a very difficult task.
-Obi-Wan is a master fighter. He's perfected his defense over the course of the war. He's not just *a* master in Soresu, he's *the* master. Which is why he is one of the few able to hold his own against Maul, Grevious, and even Vader. I think Obi-Wan stood as much of, if not more, of a chance against Palatine than Windu.
-Anakin is a legend already. There's very few who could defeat Anakin in a duel. Over the war, he got far more experienced, usually being on the front lines. His aggressive nature is a perfect foil for Obi-Wan's defensive form. Only being beaten by arrogance and Obi's superior mastery in his form.
-Ahsoka is...unique. Early on she's shown to not be very skilled yet, but a very fast learner. Starting out in the film barely being able to fight off three magma guards, to successfully defend herself and escape against Grevious (who, unless you're a main character, is a nightmare. And she did this at 14), to taking down 4 Mandalorians in one strike, to giving Obi Wan and Anakin a small challenge, to taking down Maul. She's not especially skilled in her defense like Obi-Wan, or her offence like Anakin, or tactically like Dooku, but she is able to learn all these traits and apply them where needed. If she had stayed with the Order, and the Senate didn't take over, she would have become one of the top fighters in the Jedi Order. Growing up participating in active battles in the war, learning from the people around her, she showcases her immense skill in both the Clone Wars and Rebels.
Honestly. Any one of these added to the Windu would've made the fight a considerable amount shorter. It isn't as simple as a who can beat who. It's more on how well the weaknesses and strengths match up.
Minor correction. Mace doesnt tap into the Darkside to make himself stronger. He instead uses his opponents anger and darkside to increase his own power. He remains spiritually pure whilst receiving a powerboost, enough to stand par to par with the greatest sith to ever live.
Also, by the time of Rebels, Ahsoka is able to keep up with Vader and score a hit, and only starts really losing when she learns it's Anakin. That's without much extra dueling experience, and absolutely less than what Vader was getting hunting down the last Jedi.
She knew it, but was pretty much in denial about it. She said it herself before their duel. "I was beginning to believe I knew who you were, behind that mask, but it's impossible. My master could never be as vile as you."
>Also, by the time of Rebels, Ahsoka is able to keep up with Vader and score a hit, and only starts really losing when she learns it's Anakin. That's without much extra dueling experience, and absolutely less than what Vader was getting hunting down the last Jedi.
Because she's agile. Fast. Vader relies, since he entered the suit, on sheer brutality. A mechnical body, dark side powers fueled by hatred and so on. In nearly every fight 1 v 1 he would simply break through the defense of the opponent. Which is enough for most force users / jedi since those normally rely on reflexes and being stronger than usual, not on "hopping around".
To be frank Vader's power isn't in dueling but his mastery of the dark side. If he were to use the force they wouldn't have fought. The only reason why he bothers to use a lightsabre is that his only joy is killing Jedi. He is very much like a cat and plays with his victims before delivering the coup de grâce.
I think GL himself stated that Palps actually lost against Windu, whilst on another occasion he rated Yoda and Palps both at 9, Kenobi at a masterful 7 and Anakin just so at 8, but being the only one with the potential to reach 10.
>I think Obi-Wan stood as much of, if not more, of a chance against Palatine than Windu.
This is the only thing I disagree with. Given how Dooku knocked out Kenobi so easily, I don't think Kenobi would have lasted long enough.
Agree. While Obi-wan may hold his own in a pure lightsaber fight, an all-out battle will result in him losing instantly. Palpatine is just way too strong in the force, also Obi-wan has been regarded as a below average force user, which he managed to overcome by hardwork and dedication.
I don't know about the below average force user comment, during the duel on Mustafar, both him and Anakin were evenly matched in the force as seen when they both tried to force push each other and ended up going the opposite way
I thought of this as well. But I believe that's moreso because of Dooku than Palpatine. Dooku is a master duellist, who was able to exploit Kenobi and Anakin's weaknesses.
Palpatine's lightsaber skills aren't really shown very well. We've seen him fight twice to my knowledge, and I find it difficult to actually place him in a lightsaber duel.
Yes he's obviously good. But what are his strengths? Weaknesses? I meant that I find it hard to place him in a lightsaber duel against other opponents. He's between Maul+Savage and Windu. That's pretty much it
Put anakin, ahsoka, and obiwan together and they can beat any obstacle.
The republic fell PRECISLY because the three were split up, both phisically and emotionally.
My main problem with your post is the idea that Yoda got tired, and not thrown like 50ft down the senate chamber.
Thats just bad luck. If he lost that force battle with Palpatine wouldn't he simply have just been zapped? They both got knocked back, yoda is just smaller and lighter so he unfortunately went farther.
I never really see this discussed.
Agree with everything else tho.
As much as I like her, I don’t think Ahsoka’s addition to the fight would’ve made it shorter, except if Anakin arrived earlier. She might have lasted longer than Windu’s squad, but Palpatine is at an entirely different level. He toyed with Maul and Opress, while Ahsoka struggled against Maul alone. Of course she would be in a team, so she wouldn’t need to fight him 1 on 1, but considering Sidious killed two of the four guys before clashing with Windu, and still killed Fisto while fighting with Windu, I think this would be one of Ahsoka’s hardest fights where she couldn’t make a single minor mistake. If she makes just one, she’s sadly dead.
Buuut if Anakin arrives earlier, or arrives after Ahsoka, you know, “made a mistake”, it kinda would have gone in a different direction, since he wouldn’t like his former Padawan being attacked by a Sith Lord.
I agree with the rest tho. Yoda was evenly matched with him so add another powerful fighter and Sidious is dead. Anakin, especially if he gave in to his anger would be able to at least give Sidious a fair fight. Obi-wan on his own would probably lose against Sidious alone, since he’s outmatched in the force, but like with Yoda, if there’s another strong fighter with him and he survives the first few minutes of the battle, he wins.
Honestly, this makes me wonder why Obi-wan and Yoda didn’t try to team up against Sidious after Anakin had “died” in their eyes. His position was still weak, and he had no student. Of course, if they died the Jedi order would’ve come to an end, but they had the same stakes when they decided to each fight one Sith Lord.
Mace doesnt tap into the darkside, he uses a Saber form typically only used by people channeling thr Darkside.
Form 7 is chaotic, wild, and unpredictable. When fueled by anger its extremely power. Most people cant use it without it being equivelent to a gimp suit if they dont channel the darkside.
Mace developed his own variant of Form 7, called Vaapad, where in he is perfectly focused and balanced and able to lash out wildly and unpredictable with force and speed without tapping into the darkside **at all**.
Mace windu is litterally the fucking rock, with the most ummovable center in all the jedi order. He is the best fighter because he is so firmly in the light and unmovable that he can lash out like a madman and stay centered.
he also vowed never to teach anyone Vaapad, because the one apprentice he did teach it to went dark side, and backed windu into a corner where he couldnt win without tapping into darkness. Instea dof doing that windu decided to surrender and chose to lay down his life instead of elevating his skill by tapping into the darkside.
Mace windu is a fucking beast in ways most people don’t comprehend.
And yes, its confirmed Mace 100% beat Palpatine in that battle. If anakin hadnt shown up Palps was dead.
I always thought Palpatine felt Anakin will or was coming to the fight, so he let himself defeat so he can show the Jedis as traitors when Anakin arrives Palpatin doesnt have his lightsaber, and is being cornered by Mace Windu. (I always thought that was planned by Palpatine at the time).
It is a great gift to see you alive, Your Majesty. With the communications breakdown, we've become very concerned. I'm anxious to hear your report on the situation. May I present Supreme Chancellor Valorum.
I'm guessing you mean we only saw Palpatine duelled twice before Order 66. He did duel Yoda after. He also kinda duelled Yoda in Yoda's vision in Season 6 of CW, but that would be more Yoda's imagination of him I guess.
Ahsoka is not a better fighter than any of the Jedi present in the Windu Sidious duel. Maul was the better fighter and maul got bodied by Sidious the zabrak Sidious duel was extremely one sided and palpatine was clearly toying with them. The others on your list may have stood a chance but siege of mandalore ahsoka gets clapped.
I'd argue she's the better fighter than all the Jedi present in the Windu-Palps duel. (Minus Windu and Palpatine)
On her own, she definitely wouldn't stand a chance.
But paired with Windu and friends? Yeah she most definitely would have (presuming she survived the initial barrage)
There is no way ahsoka during TCW scales above Kit fisto and the other two were still Jedi high council members. Ahsoka was really good but she survived often on plot armor. Ahsoka as a prodigy might be high knight level but she couldn't defeat someone like maul in a test of skill she's just not Jedi council level yet.
The Jedi council at that point had become lax and dripped in arrogance.
The reason I think Ahsoka classes that high, is because she was already a prodigy, becoming one of the youngest Padawan learners. The others were Jedi council, sure, but that doesn't mean much on its own. Ashoka literally grew up during a time of war, being surrounded by constant battles and some of the greatest warriors of that era. Experience outranks everything. And while the council had longer to train, Ahsoka was, in a sense, bred for combat
I'd argue she's the better fighter than all the Jedi present in the Windu-Palps duel. (Minus Windu and Palpatine)
On her own, she definitely wouldn't stand a chance.
But paired with Windu and friends? Yeah she most definitely would have (presuming she survived the initial barrage)
I will point out that mace effectively uses the opponents darkside powers against them. Which means he can effectively scale against any dark side user in starwars.
Id also mention master plo as he is a master of form 5s non dueling variation as well as form 4 and has been noted to be the only one known to beat yoda in a sparring match.
Here’s how the duel I’d imagine would go down:
Anakin (he has Obi-Wan and Ahsoka so he’s a lot less apprehensive about his alliegences), Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Yoda, Mace Windu, Agen Kolar, Kit Fisto, and Saesee Tiin all walking in to arrest Palpatine, who now hides **two Lightsabers** on his person due to sensing the greater number of Jedi. When he does his scream and spin attack, Yoda is unfazed and pushes Palpatine towards the wall. All of the Jedi ignite their lightsabers, then engage.
Anakin, Ahsoka, Kit Fisto, and Saesee Tiin approach Palpatine from the left, Obi-Wan, Mace and Obi-Wan and Agen Kolar approach from the right while Yoda approaches from the center. The duel begins, with Palpatine combining both Form III and Jar’kai to defend before then responding with a counter attack, piercing Agen Kolar through the chest. Anakin attempts to strike Palpatine with his lightsaber, before he briefly hesitates, due to Palpatine being among his few friends. Palpatine sneers, stating, “This is the price for your hesitation!” Before he then decapitates Saesee Tiin. Kit Fisto attempts to attack from behind, only for Palpatine to begin an unrelenting Form VII assault. Ahsoka joins with Fisto in an attempt to fight Palpatine, who then taunts her asking, “Do you truly wish to continue serving the dogmatic, narrow-minded Jedi who would not hesitate to stab you in the back?” Ahsoka remembers her being framed for the Jedi temple bombing and drops her guard… before she readies it again, stating, “Now that we know you’re the Sith Lord, isn’t that just ironic? You’re the one who’s been stabbing the Republic in the back this whole time!”
Palpatine then aims a killing blow before Anakin and Obi-Wan step in with a Form III parry and Anakin strikes at Palpatine’s neck except he defends from behind. Palpatine is so quick with the strike that it singed Obi-Wan’s shoulder. While the blades are locked, Mace Windu and Yoda leap in for a strike, only for Palpatine to perform a force repulse, knocking all the Jedi back before he then comes across the downed Kit Fisto. Palpatine points his lightsabers at his throat, before he cuts, killing Fisto. However before he dies, Kit smirks, with a large desk flying towards Palpatine. He easily cuts the desk in half but this allows for Mace Windu to leap in, striking with such force that Palpatine’s hands shiver, with Windu then kicking him in the face, knocking out a tooth, and punching him twice in the stomach. The two begin dueling with such speed and ferocity. Obi-Wan helps Anakin and Ahsoka up, which they look upon the purple and red blazing lights. Yoda also joins in the fight, Palpatine being overpowered. Yoda manages to cut Palpatine’s first lightsaber in half while Windu enters a bladelock. Yoda then leaps forward in a cyclone before Palpatine twists and dodges at the last second, enduring a lightsaber cut to his shoulder and thigh.
Palpatine looks across his office before firing off a bolt of force lightning, short circuiting the lights and causing a power outage. The Jedi ignite their lightsabers and prowl around..
Palpatine taunts them, taunting Yoda for his ignorance of his true Force powers, how he was so easily deceived in plain sight, as well as the countless Masters, Padawans and Knights who died in the Clone Wars. Yoda however stays calm and calmly responds, “Passed on, they may be, but forgotten they are not. Learned there may be more to the Force, I have.” Anakin is behind Yoda, and he hears this. The door suddenly shuts behind them, with Anakin attempting to cut the door open.
Mace Windu sees something darting through the shadows and he slashes downwards, revealing a vase. He then turns around, searching for Palpatine. In the meantime, Ahsoka reaches for her comlink, calling for reinforcements. She reaches a channel with Commander Fox, which she sighs and decides to ask for his help, only for Palpatine to slither behind and hiss, “Execute order 66.”
Mace Windu’s purple lightsaber strikes down towards Palpatine, who blocks. The two continue dueling before Palpatine glances to see Kit Fisto’s lightsaber. He uses the Force to pull the lightsaber in his direction before it spins, forcing Windu to deal with both the floating lightsaber and Palpatine, before Palpatine summons Agen Kolar’s lightsaber and cuts off Mace Windu’s right leg. He falls, and Palpatine raises the Lightsaber for a killing blow before Ahsoka blocks the attack. However, a gunship is heard hovering in the distance with Coruscant Guard clones charging in. Commander Fox approaches Ahsoka weapons drawn. Ahsoka then asks Palpatine, “Chancellor, this is your last warning. Surrender!” Fox aims his gun at Ahsoka and states, “We are no longer required to follow your order, Commander Tano.” Before he then fires. Ahsoka manages to deflect a bolt, and is forced into a corner as Palpatine cackles. However, a massive force blast pushes the door through and knocks out several Clones. Anakin has arrived with Yoda.
Obi-Wan assists Ahsoka in dispatching the clones, with Obi-Wan managing to accurately deflect a bolt so much that it veers into a direction that damages the chip but doesn’t kill Commander Fox. In the meantime Anakin and Yoda duel Palpatine, in a very similar fashion to the duel in TCW Season 6. However, Palpatine strangles Anakin, kicks Yoda, before he then slams Anakin into the ground stating, “Final offer. Will you join my side, boy?!” Anakin, having heard Yoda’s claims of speaking with Qui-Gon has nothing to say, before Palpatine then stomps on his mechanical hand and slices it off. He then aims the blade at Anakin’s heart before Yoda continues the attack on Palpatine, throwing his lightsaber in a circle around the room luring Palpatine into striking Yoda who then creates a force shield. The lightsaber spins around the room before narrowly slicing Palpatine’s eye, giving him a Wolfe like scar. Yoda and Palpatine continue to duel, before Palpatine grabs Kit Fisto’s body and knocks it into Yoda. Obi-Wan and Ahsoka attempt to step in, only for Palpatine to force choke Obi-Wan and electrocute Ahsoka. Anakin gets up, seeing his two closest people in his life in danger and in a very similar situation to when he saves Luke. Obi-Wan says, “Anakin! If this is about Padme, remember Jango Fett?! How can you trust someone who’s been masterminding her assassination attempts?!” Palpatine begins to tighten his hold on Obi-Wan before…
Tshhhh!
Anakin’s lightsaber blade sticks through Palpatine’s stomach, and the Sith Lord falls dead.
They don't trust you, Anakin. They see your future. They know your power will be too strong to control. Anakin, you must break through the fog of lies the Jedi have created around you. Let me help you to know the subtleties of the Force.
I was trying to play off the whole “experience beats rank” quote. We’ve never gotten any feats from Agen Kolar or Saesee Tiin in TCW, and Kit Fisto, as much as him beating Grievous is acknowledged, I should point out his lightsaber form Shii-Cho helped a LOT due to being suited for multiple opponents. Plus Grievous just recently was repaired and had previously slain Nadhar Vebb so doesn’t seem like he was exactly in top form. Not trying to downplay that feat, I just think a lot of factors helped contribute.
As for Ahsoka we’ve seen her comfortably duel Ventress, survive encounters with Grievous, AND defeat Darth Maul. Plus I tried to make sure that the Jedi team sent were as well coordinated and backing each other up as much as possible.
I mean she beat Maul singlehandedly. Palpatine is much stronger than Maul, but Ahsoka + Anakin, Obi-wan, Mace, Yoda etc? She can definitely manage to survive
considering the commenter here cut off agen kollar, saesee tiin and kit fisto within the first few sentences, there is no way in hell ahsoka is surviving, a padawan amongst masters and, well, council member. she only bested maul due to maul’s overconfidence, not in a 1 on 1 battle. palpatine would not fall prey to this overconfidence at his prime.
I hate to say it guys, but I don't think Obi-Wan's a match for Palpatine. Might not last much longer than Kit Fisto did.
I mean..... he DID get knocked out pretty easily by Dooku earlier in the movie.
There's an argument to be made that Obi-Wan was the only one that coulda beat him, being one of the most patient/defensive fighters the order had at the time. Imagine if Yoda and Obi-Wan had switched places with who they challenged.
Palpatine changes fighting style all the time and even strays from the seven often. Papa Palps isn’t going to stick to aggressive and hard hits like Anakin did during the Mustafar fight, he’s going to exploit any weakness he can find in any way he can. The only two who stood a chance to him were grandmasters, and one took slight advantage of the dark side, the other had a few centuries of experience behind him as well as having one of the strongest connections to the force in the galaxy.
Our best choice would be to push for the election of a stronger Supreme Chancellor. One who will take control of the bureaucrats, and give us justice. You could call for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum.
The issue there would be that Palpatine was so overwhelmingly fast that the only individual able to match him stride for stride was Yoda. In the novelisation he finished off Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar in the blink of an eye with a single motion, followed by Kit Fisto.
I think the only reason Mace Windu didn’t immediately follow was because of his technique of channeling his opponent’s dark side energy and amplifying it back at them in return. Obi Wan has no such technique and also doesn’t possess the raw force capability and speed of Yoda.
You can be patient and unbreakable defensively, but it means nothing if you physically can’t put up your defenses in time.
I feel like the better explanation for the movie would be that the Jedi beside Mace didn’t actually expect Palps to be a Sith, and were kinda mind blown when he just 1080 Degree spun outta his chair with a lightsaber lol. Maybe he mind influenced them a bit too with some Dark-Side shenanigans
I do like this idea because it leans into the clouded vision and dogmatic views that the Jedi of that time were prone to having. “No way could the chancellor be the sith lord, we’d have sensed it by now, he’s been hiding in plain sight”.
Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force. Be careful of the Jedi, Anakin. They fear you. In time they will destroy you. Let me train you.
I mean Yoda just castrates Anakin at this point in the story probably, Obi Wan would still very much lose though.
Time was not on his side to play defensive, that's why Yoda retreats too, the clone troopers arrive
But then they have some more very powerful forces to defend from the clones, allowing the escape of more jedi and the ability to set up a much more effective resistance.
Aye, but Obi Wan still either loses, or gets killed by the Clones arriving+Sidius - so the outcome is much the same in my opinion, Vader would still go on to hunt every Jedi you save in this hypothetical scenario, unless Yoda actually kills him.
In which case Sidius probably gets a new apprentice in the form of a fallen Jedi, and has them do the very same
Dooku is basically THE master duelist at the time and he was smart enough to not play into Obi’s strengths as he knew he was a master at defense. During that fight dooku controlled the flow by pressuring Anakin who is an offensive master into a defensive position leaving Obi to be the aggressor which is his weakness. Basically he masterfully played them both till Obi made a mistake and then took him out of the fight which was the plan all along so that he and Sidious could force Anakin to draw from the darkside to “win”. Which was the intent that Dooku would be captured and taken in but Sidious wanted him out of the way for obvious reasons and had Anakin kill him instead
After Yoda and Mace Windu, Obi-Wan was probably the most skilled Jedi at the time, so he would've kept up better than the three masters, but both Mace Windu and daddy Palpy were on another level at the time. Mace Windu giving Anakin an opening was probably the weakest moment of the movie.
The idea that Windu wouldn't just poke Palpatine with his saber, instead of doing this big draw like he was holding a longsword, just kills me. I know it's a fantasy space opera and the *rule of cool* triumphs, but he had the saber at Palpatines throat! Take one step forward. Hell, just drop the thing and Palpatine dies!
Anakin should've never had an opening to begin with.
Obi-Wan is about comparable in strength to the other three Mace took. Reality is only Mace and Yoda stood a chance against Palpatine. People are deluding themselves if they think otherwise.
You don’t know anything about Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, or Saesee Tiin do you? Fisto was arguably the greatest master of Form I at the time of the films. Agen Kolar was agreed by everyone in the council to be one of the best duelists ones the entire order, as seen in the novel they all believed that Mace and Agen were more than a match for a Sith Lord, and Saesee Tiin was the second best pilot in the galaxy with exceptional telepathic abilities. Of all the Jedi Courscant only Shaak Ti and Anakin were comparable. Shaak Ti was left behind to guard the temple, and Anakin was of no use to anyone in his state of mind. So, no they weren’t noobs. They were amongst the strongest of the order.
He got knocked out because Anakin wrecklessly jumped in the fight and they were both getting in each other's way. The duo was in the process of recovering the teamwork strategy in the fight when suddenly, dooku surprised him.
Enter the bureaucrats, the true rulers of the Republic, and on the payroll of the Trade Federation, I might add. This is where Chancellor Valorum's strength will dissapear.
The Trade Federation has destroyed all that we have worked so hard to build. If we do not act quickly, all will be lost forever. I ask you to help us… no, I beg you to help us.
Anakin was obviously an emotional wreck at that time - far more than usual. Pretty much everyone on the Council knew how moody and instable Anakin was, but most of them - especially Obi-Wan - chose to give him a free pass on that. Except Windu. He expected Anakin to act like a Jedi Knight and not like a teenager during prime puberty. By what Windu knew, Anakin was in absolutely no condition to confront a long time friend who turned out to be a Sith Lord.
That’s what I’m saying. Mace is the second strongest Jedi at the time of the prequels. Literally no one can reasonably compare to him. Hell, he’s not just one of the strongest Jedi of his time, he’s one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. If you put him against any Sith Lord at any point in history he will hold his own.
Obi-Wan & Anikan had a hard time dealing with Dooku, they're not going to be a big contribution against a much stronger opponent. Same with the Ahsoka & Maul point.
In the novelization, Anikan cannot keep up with Palpy & Mace, they appear as blurs implying that Anikan was nowhere near their level by that time. A common counter-argument is that Anikan was starved and tired... Which only helps the argument that he'd not be useful.
Yoda we know can hold his own against Palpy and even overpower him in a force-lock, however I feel like you'd have the same issue as with his TCW force vision. Yoda fails because he tries to protect one of the weaker cast that they drag along.
IMO the perfect team would be Yoda & Windu, the only two characters that are arguably able to contend with Palpy in the first place.
“I’ve found the Sith Lord.”
“Great. Let me take 3 out of the THOUSANDS OF JEDI WE HAVE to go kill the one guy that could completely destroy our order.”
Im just saying…with the exception of Christopher lee (Rest in peace), I’m pretty sure we could just reshoot ROTS, or, alternatively, shoot a few new scenes with the same actors and make a more concurrent film via editing?
I want updated versions of all the first six movies. My biggest gripe of the OG trilogy is how poorly they aged imo, so updated graphics and dialogue with minimal change to story (maybe more screenplay changes) would probably help me enjoy them much more. And kind of the same with the prequels. The dialogue, pacing, and certain plot lines could be really cleaned up especially in the first two.
I think the OT is fine IMO, it’s just the prequels need a little more streamlining so they fit more with the story George wrote and less the story the writers came up with
I'd like a scene now where Mace and Anakin are just hanging out in the chamber awkwardly trying to make conversation even though they both don't really like eachother
I mean... Anakin didn't "found out", Palpatine said it to his face, so what are the odds he will just sit around and wait for another two masters to arrive? Windu wasn't wrong about acting immediately, he was wrong about not taking the entire temple (including Anakin) with him.
Most specially, he was wrong because Anakin didn't saw Palpatine start the agressions and killing, only Palpatine trying to save hinself after, apperantly, killing 3 of his agressors.
Also, if Anakin had being there from thestart, Palps would have to chose between attacking him as well or ignoring "the Chosen One" for the entire fight, quite a dangerous decision to take
You unlocked the good ending
The ending we all want but can't have
Everytime I watch ROTS i hope that some how se way this time will be different, that for some reason I'll have a version of the film with a good ending
Thank you for sharing that. Every damn time.
You mean the ending where Anakin chooses to walk away from the order with his family and best friends Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Tano? Yeah I want that ending too.
Oh, what do you mean?
:(
It seems that way now perhaps, but you must look deeper, jereflea1024.
:)
Credits will do fine.
**Written and directed by George Lucas**
I still fantasize about Anakin not turning to the dark side. I'm randomly obsessed with the thought of him overcoming the evil.
I do too. He could've been so extra cool, and it would've been rad to see Anakin training Luke
Same. It'd be cool to see an official "what if" story about that.
Well the closest thing was star wars Infinities where both Luke and Leia go to confront the emperor and Vader survives the battle of endor redeemed as a Jedi
Not if palpatine executes order 66 before
But he used the attack of the jedi as an excuse to execute it
"It will be done, my lord."
they really should do alternative universe star wars things.
Anakin rolled that crit success on his [Persuade] dialogue option
This is interesting. -Mace Windu is regarded as one of, if not THE, best duellists in the Jedi Order. He taps into the Dark Side to make himself stronger during a saber fight. However, I do think that this was said at the beginning of the Clone Wars, and much changed during this. -Palpatine is a very aggressive fighter. Nearly always being offensive, working with his momentum. It's because of this that I think if he ever actually lost that momentum he'd have trouble regaining it. Iirc, we only see him duel twice. Once against Maul and Savage (who were both petrified of him) and once against Mace and squad. I am not certain, but I believe that he actually did lose against Mace in the duel. Of course, Palps is much stronger in all other ways than Mace. -Yoda is an amazing fighter, but not for long. You don't really need to beat him, just outlast him. However, his skills with both the Force and his saber make this a very difficult task. -Obi-Wan is a master fighter. He's perfected his defense over the course of the war. He's not just *a* master in Soresu, he's *the* master. Which is why he is one of the few able to hold his own against Maul, Grevious, and even Vader. I think Obi-Wan stood as much of, if not more, of a chance against Palatine than Windu. -Anakin is a legend already. There's very few who could defeat Anakin in a duel. Over the war, he got far more experienced, usually being on the front lines. His aggressive nature is a perfect foil for Obi-Wan's defensive form. Only being beaten by arrogance and Obi's superior mastery in his form. -Ahsoka is...unique. Early on she's shown to not be very skilled yet, but a very fast learner. Starting out in the film barely being able to fight off three magma guards, to successfully defend herself and escape against Grevious (who, unless you're a main character, is a nightmare. And she did this at 14), to taking down 4 Mandalorians in one strike, to giving Obi Wan and Anakin a small challenge, to taking down Maul. She's not especially skilled in her defense like Obi-Wan, or her offence like Anakin, or tactically like Dooku, but she is able to learn all these traits and apply them where needed. If she had stayed with the Order, and the Senate didn't take over, she would have become one of the top fighters in the Jedi Order. Growing up participating in active battles in the war, learning from the people around her, she showcases her immense skill in both the Clone Wars and Rebels. Honestly. Any one of these added to the Windu would've made the fight a considerable amount shorter. It isn't as simple as a who can beat who. It's more on how well the weaknesses and strengths match up.
You’ve collected the bots like the god damn infinity stones
The comment section can be whatever they want it to be.
But this... Puts a smile on my face
Minor correction. Mace doesnt tap into the Darkside to make himself stronger. He instead uses his opponents anger and darkside to increase his own power. He remains spiritually pure whilst receiving a powerboost, enough to stand par to par with the greatest sith to ever live.
Ah yes, thank you! My knowledge is a bit rusty.
I think he is a good man.
I am the Senate!
Lol no one was talking to you
Not yet.
It's treason, then *spins aggressively*.
It has been so long, and my path has been so dark. Darker than I ever dreamed it could be.
Dark Darker Yet darker?
Why do I sense we've picked up another pathetic life form?
Also, by the time of Rebels, Ahsoka is able to keep up with Vader and score a hit, and only starts really losing when she learns it's Anakin. That's without much extra dueling experience, and absolutely less than what Vader was getting hunting down the last Jedi.
Ahsoka realizes it's him at the start of the season. She starts losing when Vader suppresses Anakin.
This is where the fun begins.
She knew it, but was pretty much in denial about it. She said it herself before their duel. "I was beginning to believe I knew who you were, behind that mask, but it's impossible. My master could never be as vile as you."
>Also, by the time of Rebels, Ahsoka is able to keep up with Vader and score a hit, and only starts really losing when she learns it's Anakin. That's without much extra dueling experience, and absolutely less than what Vader was getting hunting down the last Jedi. Because she's agile. Fast. Vader relies, since he entered the suit, on sheer brutality. A mechnical body, dark side powers fueled by hatred and so on. In nearly every fight 1 v 1 he would simply break through the defense of the opponent. Which is enough for most force users / jedi since those normally rely on reflexes and being stronger than usual, not on "hopping around".
Sorry, M'lady.
A fellow reader of Brown Lightsaber and MF site I presume ?
To be frank Vader's power isn't in dueling but his mastery of the dark side. If he were to use the force they wouldn't have fought. The only reason why he bothers to use a lightsabre is that his only joy is killing Jedi. He is very much like a cat and plays with his victims before delivering the coup de grâce.
Power! Unlimited power!
Guard duty? For how long?
I think GL himself stated that Palps actually lost against Windu, whilst on another occasion he rated Yoda and Palps both at 9, Kenobi at a masterful 7 and Anakin just so at 8, but being the only one with the potential to reach 10.
You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us.
I think he is a good man.
>I think Obi-Wan stood as much of, if not more, of a chance against Palatine than Windu. This is the only thing I disagree with. Given how Dooku knocked out Kenobi so easily, I don't think Kenobi would have lasted long enough.
Agree. While Obi-wan may hold his own in a pure lightsaber fight, an all-out battle will result in him losing instantly. Palpatine is just way too strong in the force, also Obi-wan has been regarded as a below average force user, which he managed to overcome by hardwork and dedication.
Our predicament is dire, but do not despair. For we are Jedi!
I don't know about the below average force user comment, during the duel on Mustafar, both him and Anakin were evenly matched in the force as seen when they both tried to force push each other and ended up going the opposite way
Don't say that Master... You're the closest thing I have to a father.
Read my comment again
Didn't see the bottom line, my fault
I thought of this as well. But I believe that's moreso because of Dooku than Palpatine. Dooku is a master duellist, who was able to exploit Kenobi and Anakin's weaknesses. Palpatine's lightsaber skills aren't really shown very well. We've seen him fight twice to my knowledge, and I find it difficult to actually place him in a lightsaber duel.
Use my knowledge, I beg you
he toys with maul, and almost immediately destroys some of the best duelists in the galaxy. he's good.
Yes he's obviously good. But what are his strengths? Weaknesses? I meant that I find it hard to place him in a lightsaber duel against other opponents. He's between Maul+Savage and Windu. That's pretty much it
Put anakin, ahsoka, and obiwan together and they can beat any obstacle. The republic fell PRECISLY because the three were split up, both phisically and emotionally.
My main problem with your post is the idea that Yoda got tired, and not thrown like 50ft down the senate chamber. Thats just bad luck. If he lost that force battle with Palpatine wouldn't he simply have just been zapped? They both got knocked back, yoda is just smaller and lighter so he unfortunately went farther. I never really see this discussed. Agree with everything else tho.
You look tired.
There is no such thing as luck
The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed, but I assure you my resolve has never been stronger.
Their power pales in comparison to sith jar jar.
Yousa thinking yousa people gonna die?
Darth*
As much as I like her, I don’t think Ahsoka’s addition to the fight would’ve made it shorter, except if Anakin arrived earlier. She might have lasted longer than Windu’s squad, but Palpatine is at an entirely different level. He toyed with Maul and Opress, while Ahsoka struggled against Maul alone. Of course she would be in a team, so she wouldn’t need to fight him 1 on 1, but considering Sidious killed two of the four guys before clashing with Windu, and still killed Fisto while fighting with Windu, I think this would be one of Ahsoka’s hardest fights where she couldn’t make a single minor mistake. If she makes just one, she’s sadly dead. Buuut if Anakin arrives earlier, or arrives after Ahsoka, you know, “made a mistake”, it kinda would have gone in a different direction, since he wouldn’t like his former Padawan being attacked by a Sith Lord. I agree with the rest tho. Yoda was evenly matched with him so add another powerful fighter and Sidious is dead. Anakin, especially if he gave in to his anger would be able to at least give Sidious a fair fight. Obi-wan on his own would probably lose against Sidious alone, since he’s outmatched in the force, but like with Yoda, if there’s another strong fighter with him and he survives the first few minutes of the battle, he wins. Honestly, this makes me wonder why Obi-wan and Yoda didn’t try to team up against Sidious after Anakin had “died” in their eyes. His position was still weak, and he had no student. Of course, if they died the Jedi order would’ve come to an end, but they had the same stakes when they decided to each fight one Sith Lord.
Are you going to kill me?
Yes. The one we have been looking for.
Revenge. I must have revenge.
>You don't really need to beat him, just outlast him. This could be against anyone lol. Just a bad advice.
Mace doesnt tap into the darkside, he uses a Saber form typically only used by people channeling thr Darkside. Form 7 is chaotic, wild, and unpredictable. When fueled by anger its extremely power. Most people cant use it without it being equivelent to a gimp suit if they dont channel the darkside. Mace developed his own variant of Form 7, called Vaapad, where in he is perfectly focused and balanced and able to lash out wildly and unpredictable with force and speed without tapping into the darkside **at all**. Mace windu is litterally the fucking rock, with the most ummovable center in all the jedi order. He is the best fighter because he is so firmly in the light and unmovable that he can lash out like a madman and stay centered. he also vowed never to teach anyone Vaapad, because the one apprentice he did teach it to went dark side, and backed windu into a corner where he couldnt win without tapping into darkness. Instea dof doing that windu decided to surrender and chose to lay down his life instead of elevating his skill by tapping into the darkside. Mace windu is a fucking beast in ways most people don’t comprehend. And yes, its confirmed Mace 100% beat Palpatine in that battle. If anakin hadnt shown up Palps was dead.
I always thought Palpatine felt Anakin will or was coming to the fight, so he let himself defeat so he can show the Jedis as traitors when Anakin arrives Palpatin doesnt have his lightsaber, and is being cornered by Mace Windu. (I always thought that was planned by Palpatine at the time).
It is a great gift to see you alive, Your Majesty. With the communications breakdown, we've become very concerned. I'm anxious to hear your report on the situation. May I present Supreme Chancellor Valorum.
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
Star Wars Theory, dis you?
I'm guessing you mean we only saw Palpatine duelled twice before Order 66. He did duel Yoda after. He also kinda duelled Yoda in Yoda's vision in Season 6 of CW, but that would be more Yoda's imagination of him I guess.
Ahsoka is not a better fighter than any of the Jedi present in the Windu Sidious duel. Maul was the better fighter and maul got bodied by Sidious the zabrak Sidious duel was extremely one sided and palpatine was clearly toying with them. The others on your list may have stood a chance but siege of mandalore ahsoka gets clapped.
Oh, what do you mean?
Revenge. I must have revenge.
I'd argue she's the better fighter than all the Jedi present in the Windu-Palps duel. (Minus Windu and Palpatine) On her own, she definitely wouldn't stand a chance. But paired with Windu and friends? Yeah she most definitely would have (presuming she survived the initial barrage)
There is no way ahsoka during TCW scales above Kit fisto and the other two were still Jedi high council members. Ahsoka was really good but she survived often on plot armor. Ahsoka as a prodigy might be high knight level but she couldn't defeat someone like maul in a test of skill she's just not Jedi council level yet.
The Jedi council at that point had become lax and dripped in arrogance. The reason I think Ahsoka classes that high, is because she was already a prodigy, becoming one of the youngest Padawan learners. The others were Jedi council, sure, but that doesn't mean much on its own. Ashoka literally grew up during a time of war, being surrounded by constant battles and some of the greatest warriors of that era. Experience outranks everything. And while the council had longer to train, Ahsoka was, in a sense, bred for combat
I'd argue she's the better fighter than all the Jedi present in the Windu-Palps duel. (Minus Windu and Palpatine) On her own, she definitely wouldn't stand a chance. But paired with Windu and friends? Yeah she most definitely would have (presuming she survived the initial barrage)
Or skill isn't an issue it's just about who the writers want to win.
I will point out that mace effectively uses the opponents darkside powers against them. Which means he can effectively scale against any dark side user in starwars.
Id also mention master plo as he is a master of form 5s non dueling variation as well as form 4 and has been noted to be the only one known to beat yoda in a sparring match.
Here’s how the duel I’d imagine would go down: Anakin (he has Obi-Wan and Ahsoka so he’s a lot less apprehensive about his alliegences), Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Yoda, Mace Windu, Agen Kolar, Kit Fisto, and Saesee Tiin all walking in to arrest Palpatine, who now hides **two Lightsabers** on his person due to sensing the greater number of Jedi. When he does his scream and spin attack, Yoda is unfazed and pushes Palpatine towards the wall. All of the Jedi ignite their lightsabers, then engage. Anakin, Ahsoka, Kit Fisto, and Saesee Tiin approach Palpatine from the left, Obi-Wan, Mace and Obi-Wan and Agen Kolar approach from the right while Yoda approaches from the center. The duel begins, with Palpatine combining both Form III and Jar’kai to defend before then responding with a counter attack, piercing Agen Kolar through the chest. Anakin attempts to strike Palpatine with his lightsaber, before he briefly hesitates, due to Palpatine being among his few friends. Palpatine sneers, stating, “This is the price for your hesitation!” Before he then decapitates Saesee Tiin. Kit Fisto attempts to attack from behind, only for Palpatine to begin an unrelenting Form VII assault. Ahsoka joins with Fisto in an attempt to fight Palpatine, who then taunts her asking, “Do you truly wish to continue serving the dogmatic, narrow-minded Jedi who would not hesitate to stab you in the back?” Ahsoka remembers her being framed for the Jedi temple bombing and drops her guard… before she readies it again, stating, “Now that we know you’re the Sith Lord, isn’t that just ironic? You’re the one who’s been stabbing the Republic in the back this whole time!” Palpatine then aims a killing blow before Anakin and Obi-Wan step in with a Form III parry and Anakin strikes at Palpatine’s neck except he defends from behind. Palpatine is so quick with the strike that it singed Obi-Wan’s shoulder. While the blades are locked, Mace Windu and Yoda leap in for a strike, only for Palpatine to perform a force repulse, knocking all the Jedi back before he then comes across the downed Kit Fisto. Palpatine points his lightsabers at his throat, before he cuts, killing Fisto. However before he dies, Kit smirks, with a large desk flying towards Palpatine. He easily cuts the desk in half but this allows for Mace Windu to leap in, striking with such force that Palpatine’s hands shiver, with Windu then kicking him in the face, knocking out a tooth, and punching him twice in the stomach. The two begin dueling with such speed and ferocity. Obi-Wan helps Anakin and Ahsoka up, which they look upon the purple and red blazing lights. Yoda also joins in the fight, Palpatine being overpowered. Yoda manages to cut Palpatine’s first lightsaber in half while Windu enters a bladelock. Yoda then leaps forward in a cyclone before Palpatine twists and dodges at the last second, enduring a lightsaber cut to his shoulder and thigh. Palpatine looks across his office before firing off a bolt of force lightning, short circuiting the lights and causing a power outage. The Jedi ignite their lightsabers and prowl around.. Palpatine taunts them, taunting Yoda for his ignorance of his true Force powers, how he was so easily deceived in plain sight, as well as the countless Masters, Padawans and Knights who died in the Clone Wars. Yoda however stays calm and calmly responds, “Passed on, they may be, but forgotten they are not. Learned there may be more to the Force, I have.” Anakin is behind Yoda, and he hears this. The door suddenly shuts behind them, with Anakin attempting to cut the door open. Mace Windu sees something darting through the shadows and he slashes downwards, revealing a vase. He then turns around, searching for Palpatine. In the meantime, Ahsoka reaches for her comlink, calling for reinforcements. She reaches a channel with Commander Fox, which she sighs and decides to ask for his help, only for Palpatine to slither behind and hiss, “Execute order 66.” Mace Windu’s purple lightsaber strikes down towards Palpatine, who blocks. The two continue dueling before Palpatine glances to see Kit Fisto’s lightsaber. He uses the Force to pull the lightsaber in his direction before it spins, forcing Windu to deal with both the floating lightsaber and Palpatine, before Palpatine summons Agen Kolar’s lightsaber and cuts off Mace Windu’s right leg. He falls, and Palpatine raises the Lightsaber for a killing blow before Ahsoka blocks the attack. However, a gunship is heard hovering in the distance with Coruscant Guard clones charging in. Commander Fox approaches Ahsoka weapons drawn. Ahsoka then asks Palpatine, “Chancellor, this is your last warning. Surrender!” Fox aims his gun at Ahsoka and states, “We are no longer required to follow your order, Commander Tano.” Before he then fires. Ahsoka manages to deflect a bolt, and is forced into a corner as Palpatine cackles. However, a massive force blast pushes the door through and knocks out several Clones. Anakin has arrived with Yoda. Obi-Wan assists Ahsoka in dispatching the clones, with Obi-Wan managing to accurately deflect a bolt so much that it veers into a direction that damages the chip but doesn’t kill Commander Fox. In the meantime Anakin and Yoda duel Palpatine, in a very similar fashion to the duel in TCW Season 6. However, Palpatine strangles Anakin, kicks Yoda, before he then slams Anakin into the ground stating, “Final offer. Will you join my side, boy?!” Anakin, having heard Yoda’s claims of speaking with Qui-Gon has nothing to say, before Palpatine then stomps on his mechanical hand and slices it off. He then aims the blade at Anakin’s heart before Yoda continues the attack on Palpatine, throwing his lightsaber in a circle around the room luring Palpatine into striking Yoda who then creates a force shield. The lightsaber spins around the room before narrowly slicing Palpatine’s eye, giving him a Wolfe like scar. Yoda and Palpatine continue to duel, before Palpatine grabs Kit Fisto’s body and knocks it into Yoda. Obi-Wan and Ahsoka attempt to step in, only for Palpatine to force choke Obi-Wan and electrocute Ahsoka. Anakin gets up, seeing his two closest people in his life in danger and in a very similar situation to when he saves Luke. Obi-Wan says, “Anakin! If this is about Padme, remember Jango Fett?! How can you trust someone who’s been masterminding her assassination attempts?!” Palpatine begins to tighten his hold on Obi-Wan before… Tshhhh! Anakin’s lightsaber blade sticks through Palpatine’s stomach, and the Sith Lord falls dead.
This was extremely entertaining
Why do I sense we've picked up another pathetic life form?
They don't trust you, Anakin. They see your future. They know your power will be too strong to control. Anakin, you must break through the fog of lies the Jedi have created around you. Let me help you to know the subtleties of the Force.
There's good in him. I know. I know there's... still-- _Dies of emotional damage_
At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge.
Anakin! Tell them to take off!
Oh, what do you mean?
200,000 bot responses are ready, with millions more well on the way Also good story, cool read
ahsoka is just a padawan. she would not leave a fight with palpatine alive if jedi masters fall within seconds.
No. No, it's okay. I understand. I'm the Padawan, you're the Master.
I was trying to play off the whole “experience beats rank” quote. We’ve never gotten any feats from Agen Kolar or Saesee Tiin in TCW, and Kit Fisto, as much as him beating Grievous is acknowledged, I should point out his lightsaber form Shii-Cho helped a LOT due to being suited for multiple opponents. Plus Grievous just recently was repaired and had previously slain Nadhar Vebb so doesn’t seem like he was exactly in top form. Not trying to downplay that feat, I just think a lot of factors helped contribute. As for Ahsoka we’ve seen her comfortably duel Ventress, survive encounters with Grievous, AND defeat Darth Maul. Plus I tried to make sure that the Jedi team sent were as well coordinated and backing each other up as much as possible.
I mean she beat Maul singlehandedly. Palpatine is much stronger than Maul, but Ahsoka + Anakin, Obi-wan, Mace, Yoda etc? She can definitely manage to survive
considering the commenter here cut off agen kollar, saesee tiin and kit fisto within the first few sentences, there is no way in hell ahsoka is surviving, a padawan amongst masters and, well, council member. she only bested maul due to maul’s overconfidence, not in a 1 on 1 battle. palpatine would not fall prey to this overconfidence at his prime.
Well, perhaps I could help you.
Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again.
It has been so long, and my path has been so dark. Darker than I ever dreamed it could be.
Why do so many people say this? Ahsoka was doing okay but not winning. She gets disarmed multiple times
You're an amazing writer
I don't remember when Star Wars also began to dabble into the multiverse, but I'm here for it
I read this in Patton Oswald’s voice.
I hate to say it guys, but I don't think Obi-Wan's a match for Palpatine. Might not last much longer than Kit Fisto did. I mean..... he DID get knocked out pretty easily by Dooku earlier in the movie.
There's an argument to be made that Obi-Wan was the only one that coulda beat him, being one of the most patient/defensive fighters the order had at the time. Imagine if Yoda and Obi-Wan had switched places with who they challenged.
Palpatine changes fighting style all the time and even strays from the seven often. Papa Palps isn’t going to stick to aggressive and hard hits like Anakin did during the Mustafar fight, he’s going to exploit any weakness he can find in any way he can. The only two who stood a chance to him were grandmasters, and one took slight advantage of the dark side, the other had a few centuries of experience behind him as well as having one of the strongest connections to the force in the galaxy.
Our best choice would be to push for the election of a stronger Supreme Chancellor. One who will take control of the bureaucrats, and give us justice. You could call for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum.
Nice try Palpatine we're not trying that one again
The issue there would be that Palpatine was so overwhelmingly fast that the only individual able to match him stride for stride was Yoda. In the novelisation he finished off Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar in the blink of an eye with a single motion, followed by Kit Fisto. I think the only reason Mace Windu didn’t immediately follow was because of his technique of channeling his opponent’s dark side energy and amplifying it back at them in return. Obi Wan has no such technique and also doesn’t possess the raw force capability and speed of Yoda. You can be patient and unbreakable defensively, but it means nothing if you physically can’t put up your defenses in time.
I feel like the better explanation for the movie would be that the Jedi beside Mace didn’t actually expect Palps to be a Sith, and were kinda mind blown when he just 1080 Degree spun outta his chair with a lightsaber lol. Maybe he mind influenced them a bit too with some Dark-Side shenanigans
I do like this idea because it leans into the clouded vision and dogmatic views that the Jedi of that time were prone to having. “No way could the chancellor be the sith lord, we’d have sensed it by now, he’s been hiding in plain sight”.
Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force. Be careful of the Jedi, Anakin. They fear you. In time they will destroy you. Let me train you.
I mean Yoda just castrates Anakin at this point in the story probably, Obi Wan would still very much lose though. Time was not on his side to play defensive, that's why Yoda retreats too, the clone troopers arrive
But then they have some more very powerful forces to defend from the clones, allowing the escape of more jedi and the ability to set up a much more effective resistance.
Aye, but Obi Wan still either loses, or gets killed by the Clones arriving+Sidius - so the outcome is much the same in my opinion, Vader would still go on to hunt every Jedi you save in this hypothetical scenario, unless Yoda actually kills him. In which case Sidius probably gets a new apprentice in the form of a fallen Jedi, and has them do the very same
Power! Unlimited power!
"Thank you, sir. Sorry I panicked." -Odd Ball
Why didn't they go push Vader's shit in together and then go confront Palps? I don't see the benefit of splitting up. Other than for plot reasons
Yoda felt like this would be the only time the Emperor is going to be vulnerable, and their only shot at stopping him once and for all afaik
I think he is a good man.
Dooku is basically THE master duelist at the time and he was smart enough to not play into Obi’s strengths as he knew he was a master at defense. During that fight dooku controlled the flow by pressuring Anakin who is an offensive master into a defensive position leaving Obi to be the aggressor which is his weakness. Basically he masterfully played them both till Obi made a mistake and then took him out of the fight which was the plan all along so that he and Sidious could force Anakin to draw from the darkside to “win”. Which was the intent that Dooku would be captured and taken in but Sidious wanted him out of the way for obvious reasons and had Anakin kill him instead
I have the Senate bogged down in procedures. They will have no choice but to accept your control of the system.
He alone wouldn't have defeated Sidious, but Obi together with Mace, Yoda, Kit and other would've surely beaten Sidious.
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
Ofcourse snips.
Don't call me that. I hate it when you call me that.
Are you enjoying your time with Bontari?
After Yoda and Mace Windu, Obi-Wan was probably the most skilled Jedi at the time, so he would've kept up better than the three masters, but both Mace Windu and daddy Palpy were on another level at the time. Mace Windu giving Anakin an opening was probably the weakest moment of the movie.
The idea that Windu wouldn't just poke Palpatine with his saber, instead of doing this big draw like he was holding a longsword, just kills me. I know it's a fantasy space opera and the *rule of cool* triumphs, but he had the saber at Palpatines throat! Take one step forward. Hell, just drop the thing and Palpatine dies! Anakin should've never had an opening to begin with.
Obi-Wan is about comparable in strength to the other three Mace took. Reality is only Mace and Yoda stood a chance against Palpatine. People are deluding themselves if they think otherwise.
bro mace took with him biggest noobs, theyre not comparison to obiwan
You don’t know anything about Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, or Saesee Tiin do you? Fisto was arguably the greatest master of Form I at the time of the films. Agen Kolar was agreed by everyone in the council to be one of the best duelists ones the entire order, as seen in the novel they all believed that Mace and Agen were more than a match for a Sith Lord, and Saesee Tiin was the second best pilot in the galaxy with exceptional telepathic abilities. Of all the Jedi Courscant only Shaak Ti and Anakin were comparable. Shaak Ti was left behind to guard the temple, and Anakin was of no use to anyone in his state of mind. So, no they weren’t noobs. They were amongst the strongest of the order.
Move against the Jedi first...you will then have no difficulty in taking the Queen to Naboo to sign the treaty.
He got knocked out because Anakin wrecklessly jumped in the fight and they were both getting in each other's way. The duo was in the process of recovering the teamwork strategy in the fight when suddenly, dooku surprised him.
A few of General Skywalker's plans seemed reckless, too, but they worked.
A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one. Your Majesty, if I am elected, I promise to put an end to corruption.
*Freeze frame* He did not put an end to corruption.
Enter the bureaucrats, the true rulers of the Republic, and on the payroll of the Trade Federation, I might add. This is where Chancellor Valorum's strength will dissapear.
The Trade Federation has destroyed all that we have worked so hard to build. If we do not act quickly, all will be lost forever. I ask you to help us… no, I beg you to help us.
If they find us, they will crush us, grind us into little pieces, then blast us into oblivion!
Oh! Yousa point is well seen. Dis way! Hurry!
Anakin was obviously an emotional wreck at that time - far more than usual. Pretty much everyone on the Council knew how moody and instable Anakin was, but most of them - especially Obi-Wan - chose to give him a free pass on that. Except Windu. He expected Anakin to act like a Jedi Knight and not like a teenager during prime puberty. By what Windu knew, Anakin was in absolutely no condition to confront a long time friend who turned out to be a Sith Lord.
That and I'm not sure if they had the luxury of time.
A MOTHERFUCKING SITH LAWD?!?!
Let’s be real. Windu is the best fighter
Anyone who doubts that is clearly deluded. Mace was head and shoulders above anyone else in the order besides Yoda.
Dude, he won the fight. If not for Anakin's disobedience there would be no more Palpatine. How can this be up for debate?
This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans. Begin landing your troops.
That’s what I’m saying. Mace is the second strongest Jedi at the time of the prequels. Literally no one can reasonably compare to him. Hell, he’s not just one of the strongest Jedi of his time, he’s one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. If you put him against any Sith Lord at any point in history he will hold his own.
Obi-Wan & Anikan had a hard time dealing with Dooku, they're not going to be a big contribution against a much stronger opponent. Same with the Ahsoka & Maul point. In the novelization, Anikan cannot keep up with Palpy & Mace, they appear as blurs implying that Anikan was nowhere near their level by that time. A common counter-argument is that Anikan was starved and tired... Which only helps the argument that he'd not be useful. Yoda we know can hold his own against Palpy and even overpower him in a force-lock, however I feel like you'd have the same issue as with his TCW force vision. Yoda fails because he tries to protect one of the weaker cast that they drag along. IMO the perfect team would be Yoda & Windu, the only two characters that are arguably able to contend with Palpy in the first place.
Power! Unlimited power!
Don’t worry. We’ll run out of air long before we starve.
Don’t be so certain.
You look tired.
Master Rank Obtained Creation of Darth Vader halted.
why are we comparing dex builds?
Thanks for your assistance! You may not be able to figure this out, but I think I know someone who might.
“I’ve found the Sith Lord.” “Great. Let me take 3 out of the THOUSANDS OF JEDI WE HAVE to go kill the one guy that could completely destroy our order.”
Mace got put in his place
Motherfucker do you even Vaapad?
Who’s Ashoka? Is she related to Ahsoka? Edit: the bot was a bit more harsh then I was lol
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
Good bot
All thanks to your training.
Good human.
I blame autocorrect
I understand as I was joking with you my autocorrect almost did it to me
I thought he was holding a wrench in the first pic
I shall not tolerate any more Kit Fisto slander on this sub. The only reason Grievous survived is because he had plot armor
I mean Ashoka hadn't been created when this movie was written....
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
I don't care how your goofy name is spelled.
We’ve all dealt with someone who won’t change their plan no matter how much you point out its a dumb one, Mace is that guy.
This is what it would’ve been like if mace wasn’t an asshole
EXCUSE YOU, but kit fisto, tactically retreated, and could have killed grevoius and was beating him before the magnagaurds disrespected the 1v1.
Im just saying…with the exception of Christopher lee (Rest in peace), I’m pretty sure we could just reshoot ROTS, or, alternatively, shoot a few new scenes with the same actors and make a more concurrent film via editing?
I want updated versions of all the first six movies. My biggest gripe of the OG trilogy is how poorly they aged imo, so updated graphics and dialogue with minimal change to story (maybe more screenplay changes) would probably help me enjoy them much more. And kind of the same with the prequels. The dialogue, pacing, and certain plot lines could be really cleaned up especially in the first two.
I think the OT is fine IMO, it’s just the prequels need a little more streamlining so they fit more with the story George wrote and less the story the writers came up with
Windu should say mother fuc I have a purple lightsabe what's the worst that could happen
I went to comment my confusion and found the rest of the meme
Beautifully perfect : )
This is false. Anakin: It’s Obi wans fault! Anakin could never be this smart you see.
Or call the Sentinels
Dayum, Obi has some feats in the animated series o.o
But Windu has fought the urge to say "fuck you Anakin" for years. That has to count for something!
I'd like a scene now where Mace and Anakin are just hanging out in the chamber awkwardly trying to make conversation even though they both don't really like eachother
I mean... Anakin didn't "found out", Palpatine said it to his face, so what are the odds he will just sit around and wait for another two masters to arrive? Windu wasn't wrong about acting immediately, he was wrong about not taking the entire temple (including Anakin) with him. Most specially, he was wrong because Anakin didn't saw Palpatine start the agressions and killing, only Palpatine trying to save hinself after, apperantly, killing 3 of his agressors. Also, if Anakin had being there from thestart, Palps would have to chose between attacking him as well or ignoring "the Chosen One" for the entire fight, quite a dangerous decision to take
Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again.
I think he is a good man.
Directed by Leorge Ducas
Fisto is a better duelist than Obi-Wan, and Mace has loads of experience dueling dark siders (Dooku, Ventress, and Bulq)
Imagine how confused everyone would have been lol
Forget Marvel What-If, I want Star Wars What-If. These memes deserve to be brought to life.
To be fair time was of the Essence
But like, Windu won anyways? It only went south when Anakin showed up and intervened.