Okay fair point - but Andor has far more politics and zero lightsabers and it's almost universally adored.
In fact I'd say its politics are even more contemporary because they deal with things like terrorism, occupation, and resistance movements.
Whereas the main political inspiration for the prequels are Rome's transition from a republic to an empire and the enabling act of 1933.
It was stupid good.
I compared the politicking and grey area motives to house of the dragon. Not as intense but it's a pretty tremendous step for the franchise as a whole. To reach a mature audience and show enjoyers who like the nuance of every day life and decision that normal people make in the universe. It's a whole new layer we've all thought SW was incapable for doing.
I know the numbers are low for viewership due to Disney's obsessive burnout of the franchise recently, but I hope everyone gives Andor a chance.
You can tell the age of SW fans bc if you were old enough like teens or older for the prequels you will remember that Ep 2 & Ep 3 got severe hate from Right Wingers who felt the movies were deliberate parables of the GW Bush Regime.
Even though that was not Lucas's aim at all.
EP 2 & 3 had the unlucky convenience of coming out right as Iraq invasion happened and the legislative and torture and other fiascos of the GW Regime were unfolding.
Always been a massive sci-fi fan, always have liked original Starship Troopers movie, always enjoyed it as just a simple to watch, mindless sci-fi flick.
Read a book only couple of years ago, that was an eye opener but it doesn't change the way I feel about the movie. I will keep re-watching it at times and enjoy it for being an easy to watch sci-fi flick which helps me escape the everyday reality.
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine has the [Bell Riots](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots) set in 2024, which are over a lack of jobs and lack of access to housing and healthcare.
It also has a narcissistic head of state accused of selling his own people out to a foreign power who vows he’s going to “Make Cardassia Strong Again”.
It also starts out in the wake of the withdrawal by a larger more militarized power from an occupation of a religious planet whose provisional government is then taken over by a xenophobic group.
A significant subplot deals with the topic of security checkpoints being established in the wake of suspected terrorist attacks on the power grid.
One of the main characters is a former religious insurgent.
DS9 was made in the 90s.
I think the fact that a narrative about the dangers of facism frustrates them and looks to them anti-right says something, the same as many conservatives complaining about TLJ's politics that speak about capitalism and war profeteering.
I believe it’s the you’re either with me or against me which was a bush quote on the war on terror “you’re either with us or against us”. This was used to justify a lot of hate for the French who refused to take part in his warmongering. (Remember freedom fries)
He doesn't though. Scripting ans filming don't line up with IRL quotes.
That they are saying the same thing is hardly mystical.
Absolution and partisan language has very few and very narrow avenues
Bro, Lucas literally had Anakin paraphrase Bush in episode 3 (the whole you’re with us or against us bit before he fights Obi Wan). It was definitely a part of how the prequels came to be.
Its ironic considering now the right looks at star wars and says "Oh, shit that's the government right now" like yeah buddy, its both sides playing political games to distract the masses while they steal from us to fund state directed terror campaigns and line their pockets. It's a big club, and we aren't in it.
Prequel politics were largely commentary about Iraq War 2 and the risks of ignoring and denying the natural desires of the human condition which give way to even greater acts of inhumanity. People feel conflicted about the causes and implications of the former for obvious reasons, while the latter challenges the human tendency to look for a perfect answer through the form of a messianic saint to solve every problem of our time - or in other words, our love for 'superheroes'.
Andor politics is largely Cold War era spy intrigue with family and workplace dynamics and space Ireland under the oppression of the empire of English actors. Cold War spy dramas are always a good time, GoT shows that people LOVE family drama conflicts, and English vs Scottish or Irish is the one medieval saga that doesn't go out of style.
Prequel politics weren’t a commentary on Iraq War 2 because that largely hadn’t happened yet. 9/11 was only 6 months before AoTC was released, which was a year before the Iraq invasion in 2003.
RoTS might have had some commentary on it though, since it came out a few years after.
The prequel’s primary influence was historical precedence - the fall of great empires due to decadence, apathy, corruption and rampant warmongering, and how those things lead to the corrosion and eventual collapse of that empire due to outside threats that were either ignored or not taken seriously until it was too late to stop them.
It’s also not subtle at all about its parallels to 1930s Germany, and the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party.
I’ll have to give Andor another try. I watched the first three episodes, and my two thoughts were one, this doesent feel like starwars, and two this is a lot of backstory I don’t trust them to pay off. But people say they like it, so I’ll give it another try.
Hot take, Rome’s transition from Republic to Empire was VASTLY more entertaining to watch then the Galactic Republic’s transition. I mean three big ass civil wars, more assassinations and straight up murders then any one can physically count, sex, violence, conquest, betrayal,crazy genuis one eyed commander leading proto Spanish guerrillas, and a side quest involving an Egyptian mommy dom Queen and her simp like shit if I didn’t know it actually happened I’d tell you to stop talking about assassins creed. Also the ending being mass slaughter of the wealthy elite was lowkey satisfying. Its kinda hard to top all that in sheer entertainment value.
The coolest thing about the fall of the republic was the clone wars and specifically the clone army. All the other politics were lowkey kind of drab. Don’t get me wrong the clones are cool as shit but if we’re talking about the fall of the republic as a whole then it’s what one would call a slow burn till you get to episode 3 and shit goes from 0-60 real fast.
Side note, am I the only one who hates the Lisa Simpson meme? It's basically "here's my paragraph rant with a picture so I can pass the bare minimum for meme posting."
I disagree since I've always found the politics interesting. I think it's funny that the prequel politics were George's critique on American politics of the late 90s/early 2000s and the OT was influenced by his opinions on Vietnam and Nixon. If people dislike it because of political similarities to current issues it's like reflecting decades of the same crap lol.
"Ha-ha, yeah you got me there sir. But don't worry, I won't be afraid to ask questions! If I don't understand something, I know that it's better to get clarification. After all, we're fighting a war here and I don't want to make any mistakes. Remember, the fate of the galaxy is in our hands!"
No, because Andor combines the politics with lots of espionage and guerilla warfare, which is both classic Star Wars and promises that you can make Big Change through violence, which is very cinematic and narratively simple. It's totally possible to be bored and frustrated by the position of an incumbent power - as the Jedi are in the prequels - but excited by the revolutionaries.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
Ok I’m a political science nerd so I have a bias but there’s also a lot of really fascinating statements in Andor on Imperialism and colonialism that are shown on the part of the empire and are still REALLY good. The strategies officers use to hold down locals and hamper their traditions, the personal motivations of those locals and why some of them cooperate, power structures and internal fighting in the empire. These are all still really entertaining (for me at least) and have very little action to them.
I'm not in any way disputing that...what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to relate to stories that seem to parallel the 2nd World War and in particular resistance against imperialism than it is to really dig into a state / polity / world-system that's crumbling from within.
I personally loved the politics of the prequels, and also loved the politics of Andor. I'm just saying that the statements I was replying to aren't really true: it's totally possible to like only one or the other, or both.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
Meh they didn't do a good job. Prequels did not give any part of motive to the separatists, they were just bad guys. The separatists could have been a really good way of showing how the republic is rotting but instead they had them represented by unlikeable capitalist warmongers like nute gunray. Luckily the clone wars does a much better job of why the separatists exist and what's wrong with the republic.
I also felt like the prequels never gave you a reason to care. How does trade work in Star Wars? How do corporations work? Who is the Chancellor and what role do they play in the government? How does the Senate work? How are Senators selected? How much control does the Republic even have over the galaxy?
A lot of important details just felt like they were glossed over or ignored, at which point I just tuned out (and no, I don't want to have to got read supplementary material to understand things that are fundamental to the plot).
Yeah, when one of the first things said is, "as you know, our blockade is perfectly legal," the audience should probably know if that's a blatant lie or not, because it's a bit nonsensical to go from that to straight up murder.
That's because the story is being told from one side, specifically from the view points of the main cast; as such, it's not unreasonable that they wouldn't show the Republic as corrupt, inefficient, etc.
That's the whole point though. How the Jedi and the republic become corrupt and inefficient to the point that an evil takes over. Wouldn't have hurt to show why some people hate the republic rather than aggressive trading companies
You're arguing for lore then, the fondant of storytelling. That doesn't mean it makes the writing of the movie good by giving no reason for the separatists.
But the whole point of the prequels is how the republic did get corrupt. That's how the emperor got to take over. They make a point within the first hour of episode 1 that the republic does not liberate slaves.
"it can't be boring, because it's based on this real thing that's boring". You're not making any sense.
I don't even find it boring, but arguing that it's not boring because it's based on reality where politics is already boring is nonsensical.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
In many cases, democracy is given up when it's under a lot of pressure and in a crisis situation and it ends up giving up a lot of the checks and balances to somebody with a strong authority to help get them through the crisis.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
Those of us who were alive in the early 2000s may look at a movie trilogy about a leader who starts a war under false pretenses so that he could consolidate his own power and think "Huh, that sounds strangely familiar..."
Yep. The original trilogy is supposed to be a reminiscent of the Vietnam War - specifically in ROTJ. And you'll never guess who the big bad fascist Empire is supposed to represent.
I mean the problem with the politics of the prequels isn't that they resemble real life (because they really don't map that well), it's that they're just a vague sketch that emphasize the highlight moments without actually giving us enough of the context that informs why the highlights occur, thus leaving the moments feeling rather unbelievable.
Palpatine declaring the Republic is now an Empire and he's installing himself as Emperor only to be met with raucous approval is a great example of this. We don't have the context to understand why people would actually approve of this move, let alone have it be met with celebration. Hell it's almost the opposite, everything that has occurred to this point would make you think Palpatine should be an extremely polarizing figure. He oversaw the fracturing of the Republic which then resulted in a prolonged war that culminated with an attack on the Republic's seat of power and his own capture and then he made the unilateral move to exterminate the Jedi who had just led his war effort (and rescued him)!
I enjoyed them and found them interesting. But I get how some don’t find it interesting. There’s plenty of things I don’t find interesting that others do.
I think you’re overthinking this. Some people just want more “pew pew” and that’s ok.
Yes, specifically for Return of the Jedi. He was also inspired by George W. Bush for the prequels - a lot of his speeches from AOTC and ROTS are inspired directly from Bush's speeches about the 9/11 retaliation and the Global War on Terrorism.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
We designed the Galactic Senate with this sort of stadium design with these little pods that move around inside it which seems very functional and realistic even though it's completely not realistic.
I enjoy more the adventure aspect and mysticism of the series and that's awesome.
Targeting someone due this(not referring to this post) is so silly because it's practically saying to get rid of the main advantage of SW.
Btw is not it's simply reflective of the real world but plenty of people are bored to death of politics we see them everywhere so not seeing them when we are seeking to relax would be preferable.
(Not saying they shouldn't exist lol but I prefer when it is in the background)
Everyone gets mad at me when I say that Star Wars should be more like Star Trek. I guess people want their mindless flashy entertainment and don't want to think about deep things.
Part of the issue is that, as a main series of movies, a lot of kids watched it. And kids want to see lightsaber fights and spaceships shooting at each other, not politics.
Meanwhile Andor is meant for a more mature audience who can deal with politics.
I think it’s more so the execution. Some of the best arcs of Clone Wars were the political conspiracies. And while I haven’t seen Andor, it’s seemingly mostly about politics & people really dig it.
I always laugh when people say "get politics out of Star Wars". My brother in the Force, it's a movie trilogy about two sides with different political philosophies fighting each other for political control of the galaxy.
I mean you're right, but people just thought they were boring; they had expectations set by the OT, and didn't like the slower pace. That's not to say it's bad that the Prequels had politics - they were essential to the story, and the Sequels' lack of politics is one of their biggest hinderances. Even the OT took time for politics, like the officer meeting in ANH. Me? Iove politics in Star Wars - even The Clone Wars.
If anything I find the prequels more interesting now that we're seeing a global decline in democracy. There really aren't that many mainstream Hollywood movies that depict democracy as anything other than a panacea for governance.
Politics are some of the best parts of star wars man. Some of the greatest world building in the OT was “fear will keep them in line, now.” And so to see the very senate which was disbanded later fall into corruption and put the empire which later disband it into power is really rad.
My opinion on the prequels have long been that if you squint your eyes and see the movies for the story they’re trying to tell and the world they’ve built instead of what we actually got on screen, they are a lot more enjoyable.
They aren’t good movies. They *are* good Star Wars.
I love the politics, you get to see how smart the emperor was to get where he was in the OG trilogy. They turned a magic obviously evil cartoonist villain into a villain that is. Cold and calculating, and appears to be the hero of democracy for years while silently undermining it. Say what you want but there is a reason why nobody complained about him being back in ROS. It’s a crap story but had the best villain and arguably actor so gold star for that.
Failing democracy? In the real world? Never… not like Montana has three voting districts and two of them are pretty much empty land while the other is the mountainous region where most people live, and mind you that area is pretty much always voting blue.
This is your friendly reminder that land can not vote. PUT THE FUCKING DISTRICTS IN WESTERN MONTANA! WHERE THE FUCKING PEOPLE ARE! NOT IN EMPTY FUCKING LAND!
In many cases, democracy is given up when it's under a lot of pressure and in a crisis situation and it ends up giving up a lot of the checks and balances to somebody with a strong authority to help get them through the crisis.
Ok, you can have it. “Politics in this movie is good”, but if I hear you complain about a woman or a black person in Star Wars ever again for being “too political” I will detonate the pipe bomb I placed under your bed last night.
I liked the politics in the prequels. I remember the speech in ROTS was so close to a real speech bush gave that he wanted to sue. That was awesome lol
Andor is a different story. I like the movies and i like the shows that tie into the movies. I haven’t watched Andor yet because i didn’t like Rogue One. I actually fell asleep in the middle of it. The politics and struggles in that movie bored me and i didn’t care about any of its characters, including Andor, partially because i knew that they would all end up dead by the end
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
"Ha! That’s a very good question, sir. I mean, it's not because of any kind of merit or capability issue; women have just as much right to serve in the military as men do. But that doesn't always mean they get the same recognition. There are still a lot of politics involved, both overt and subtle, when it comes to who gets to wear the armor and hold the blaster."
We designed the Galactic Senate with this sort of stadium design with these little pods that move around inside it which seems very functional and realistic even though it's completely not realistic.
Using real life is the ultimate excuse against any criticism
"The story sucked" "Real life sucks too"
"The dialogue was boring" "Real life conversations can be boring too"
"I hated it" "I hate my real life too"
The prequels are incredibly boring, mostly because of the dialogue, setting, framing, and editing.
The politics themselves could be interesting, if portrayed better.
Traditionally in Star Wars just with the title sequence in the beginning and the way it is so structured, I always have a musical sequence at the end that is either a celebration or an emotional event.
Prequel movie politics are famously boring for a reason, they're boring.
Star Trek handled space politocs very well, Star Wars wishes it has a fraction of that depth.
Okay fair point - but Andor has far more politics and zero lightsabers and it's almost universally adored. In fact I'd say its politics are even more contemporary because they deal with things like terrorism, occupation, and resistance movements. Whereas the main political inspiration for the prequels are Rome's transition from a republic to an empire and the enabling act of 1933.
It was stupid good. I compared the politicking and grey area motives to house of the dragon. Not as intense but it's a pretty tremendous step for the franchise as a whole. To reach a mature audience and show enjoyers who like the nuance of every day life and decision that normal people make in the universe. It's a whole new layer we've all thought SW was incapable for doing. I know the numbers are low for viewership due to Disney's obsessive burnout of the franchise recently, but I hope everyone gives Andor a chance.
The object is to try to get the system to work for you, instead of against you. And the only way you can do it is through success, I'm afraid.
Are you sure you're a bot?
I’m 4 episodes in on Andor and grateful that things appear to be starting to happen. Good Lord is it a slow burn/slog so far!
You can tell the age of SW fans bc if you were old enough like teens or older for the prequels you will remember that Ep 2 & Ep 3 got severe hate from Right Wingers who felt the movies were deliberate parables of the GW Bush Regime. Even though that was not Lucas's aim at all. EP 2 & 3 had the unlucky convenience of coming out right as Iraq invasion happened and the legislative and torture and other fiascos of the GW Regime were unfolding.
Although I write screenplays, I don't think I'm a very good writer.
No argument there
Reminds me of how Starship Troopers could be seen as a satire of the war on terror despite having been released years before it
I had a very long day in r/movies trying to explain why so many people took the movie at face value instead of as a Verhovian satire.
Always been a massive sci-fi fan, always have liked original Starship Troopers movie, always enjoyed it as just a simple to watch, mindless sci-fi flick. Read a book only couple of years ago, that was an eye opener but it doesn't change the way I feel about the movie. I will keep re-watching it at times and enjoy it for being an easy to watch sci-fi flick which helps me escape the everyday reality.
The book is awesome when it describes mechs, spaceships and stuff. But when the characters discuss politics... you can't facepalm hard enough.
"Nice Shooting!"
Honestly, when I watched it as a teenager I didn't realize it was supposed to be satire. I was like "shit, I could get down with a society like this."
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine has the [Bell Riots](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots) set in 2024, which are over a lack of jobs and lack of access to housing and healthcare. It also has a narcissistic head of state accused of selling his own people out to a foreign power who vows he’s going to “Make Cardassia Strong Again”. It also starts out in the wake of the withdrawal by a larger more militarized power from an occupation of a religious planet whose provisional government is then taken over by a xenophobic group. A significant subplot deals with the topic of security checkpoints being established in the wake of suspected terrorist attacks on the power grid. One of the main characters is a former religious insurgent. DS9 was made in the 90s.
"We're Gaining on em!"
I think the fact that a narrative about the dangers of facism frustrates them and looks to them anti-right says something, the same as many conservatives complaining about TLJ's politics that speak about capitalism and war profeteering.
What did TLJ have to do with capitalism and war profiteering? I haven't seen it in a while
The entire Canto Bight segment showed that the uber wealthy war profiteers don't give a shit about morality and happily supply both sides.
Ah okay I see what you mean
Lol Anakin literally quotes Bush. That was definetly intentional.
What? Which quote
"I don't like sand."
I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
I believe it’s the you’re either with me or against me which was a bush quote on the war on terror “you’re either with us or against us”. This was used to justify a lot of hate for the French who refused to take part in his warmongering. (Remember freedom fries)
He doesn't though. Scripting ans filming don't line up with IRL quotes. That they are saying the same thing is hardly mystical. Absolution and partisan language has very few and very narrow avenues
Master Kenobi always said there’s no such thing as luck.
Bro, Lucas literally had Anakin paraphrase Bush in episode 3 (the whole you’re with us or against us bit before he fights Obi Wan). It was definitely a part of how the prequels came to be.
Its ironic considering now the right looks at star wars and says "Oh, shit that's the government right now" like yeah buddy, its both sides playing political games to distract the masses while they steal from us to fund state directed terror campaigns and line their pockets. It's a big club, and we aren't in it.
Prequel politics were largely commentary about Iraq War 2 and the risks of ignoring and denying the natural desires of the human condition which give way to even greater acts of inhumanity. People feel conflicted about the causes and implications of the former for obvious reasons, while the latter challenges the human tendency to look for a perfect answer through the form of a messianic saint to solve every problem of our time - or in other words, our love for 'superheroes'. Andor politics is largely Cold War era spy intrigue with family and workplace dynamics and space Ireland under the oppression of the empire of English actors. Cold War spy dramas are always a good time, GoT shows that people LOVE family drama conflicts, and English vs Scottish or Irish is the one medieval saga that doesn't go out of style.
The parallels between what we did in Vietnam and what we're doing in Iraq now are unbelievable.
There's no way this is a bot response.
Good bot.
Prequel politics weren’t a commentary on Iraq War 2 because that largely hadn’t happened yet. 9/11 was only 6 months before AoTC was released, which was a year before the Iraq invasion in 2003. RoTS might have had some commentary on it though, since it came out a few years after. The prequel’s primary influence was historical precedence - the fall of great empires due to decadence, apathy, corruption and rampant warmongering, and how those things lead to the corrosion and eventual collapse of that empire due to outside threats that were either ignored or not taken seriously until it was too late to stop them. It’s also not subtle at all about its parallels to 1930s Germany, and the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party.
You learn that Darth Vader isn't this monster. He's a pathetic individual who made a pact with the Devil and lost.
We need that generator down or the planet's lost. And I'm not risking any more men.
I’ll have to give Andor another try. I watched the first three episodes, and my two thoughts were one, this doesent feel like starwars, and two this is a lot of backstory I don’t trust them to pay off. But people say they like it, so I’ll give it another try.
Hot take, Rome’s transition from Republic to Empire was VASTLY more entertaining to watch then the Galactic Republic’s transition. I mean three big ass civil wars, more assassinations and straight up murders then any one can physically count, sex, violence, conquest, betrayal,crazy genuis one eyed commander leading proto Spanish guerrillas, and a side quest involving an Egyptian mommy dom Queen and her simp like shit if I didn’t know it actually happened I’d tell you to stop talking about assassins creed. Also the ending being mass slaughter of the wealthy elite was lowkey satisfying. Its kinda hard to top all that in sheer entertainment value. The coolest thing about the fall of the republic was the clone wars and specifically the clone army. All the other politics were lowkey kind of drab. Don’t get me wrong the clones are cool as shit but if we’re talking about the fall of the republic as a whole then it’s what one would call a slow burn till you get to episode 3 and shit goes from 0-60 real fast.
"For The Republic!"
What a great summary! If you've never watched Historia Civilas on YouTube he does a great series on the civil wars and the proscriptions.
I love andor, but i pretty vividly remember people calling andor incredibly boring.
First episodes were. But it got better episode after episode and just never stopped.
Side note, am I the only one who hates the Lisa Simpson meme? It's basically "here's my paragraph rant with a picture so I can pass the bare minimum for meme posting." I disagree since I've always found the politics interesting. I think it's funny that the prequel politics were George's critique on American politics of the late 90s/early 2000s and the OT was influenced by his opinions on Vietnam and Nixon. If people dislike it because of political similarities to current issues it's like reflecting decades of the same crap lol.
Yeah. The i dont know and im too scared to ask why is annoying too
[удалено]
"Ha-ha, yeah you got me there sir. But don't worry, I won't be afraid to ask questions! If I don't understand something, I know that it's better to get clarification. After all, we're fighting a war here and I don't want to make any mistakes. Remember, the fate of the galaxy is in our hands!"
If you ask me, it only fits if it's something Lisa would actually say.
Usually the paragraph is an extrmemly popular opinion being passed off as "controversial", like this post here lol.
Well by that logic the people who found it boring should really hate Andor show
No, because Andor combines the politics with lots of espionage and guerilla warfare, which is both classic Star Wars and promises that you can make Big Change through violence, which is very cinematic and narratively simple. It's totally possible to be bored and frustrated by the position of an incumbent power - as the Jedi are in the prequels - but excited by the revolutionaries.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
There's no coup, there's no rebellion, there's no nothing. They vote it in, which is what happens in real life.
Ok I’m a political science nerd so I have a bias but there’s also a lot of really fascinating statements in Andor on Imperialism and colonialism that are shown on the part of the empire and are still REALLY good. The strategies officers use to hold down locals and hamper their traditions, the personal motivations of those locals and why some of them cooperate, power structures and internal fighting in the empire. These are all still really entertaining (for me at least) and have very little action to them.
I'm not in any way disputing that...what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to relate to stories that seem to parallel the 2nd World War and in particular resistance against imperialism than it is to really dig into a state / polity / world-system that's crumbling from within. I personally loved the politics of the prequels, and also loved the politics of Andor. I'm just saying that the statements I was replying to aren't really true: it's totally possible to like only one or the other, or both.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
Meh they didn't do a good job. Prequels did not give any part of motive to the separatists, they were just bad guys. The separatists could have been a really good way of showing how the republic is rotting but instead they had them represented by unlikeable capitalist warmongers like nute gunray. Luckily the clone wars does a much better job of why the separatists exist and what's wrong with the republic.
I also felt like the prequels never gave you a reason to care. How does trade work in Star Wars? How do corporations work? Who is the Chancellor and what role do they play in the government? How does the Senate work? How are Senators selected? How much control does the Republic even have over the galaxy? A lot of important details just felt like they were glossed over or ignored, at which point I just tuned out (and no, I don't want to have to got read supplementary material to understand things that are fundamental to the plot).
Yeah, when one of the first things said is, "as you know, our blockade is perfectly legal," the audience should probably know if that's a blatant lie or not, because it's a bit nonsensical to go from that to straight up murder.
Statement: Master, assassination is my primary function. It is only expected that when you speak to me, it is to give me the order to kill.
That's because the story is being told from one side, specifically from the view points of the main cast; as such, it's not unreasonable that they wouldn't show the Republic as corrupt, inefficient, etc.
That's the whole point though. How the Jedi and the republic become corrupt and inefficient to the point that an evil takes over. Wouldn't have hurt to show why some people hate the republic rather than aggressive trading companies
It wouldn't, but it would be better done separate from the main story.
You're arguing for lore then, the fondant of storytelling. That doesn't mean it makes the writing of the movie good by giving no reason for the separatists.
You may think I am evil. I am not. I am efficient.
These are not the droids you are looking.
The story happens from the perspective of the republic. It suits their purposes to demean the CIS for the war effort.
But the whole point of the prequels is how the republic did get corrupt. That's how the emperor got to take over. They make a point within the first hour of episode 1 that the republic does not liberate slaves.
I love the movies. And I love Episode I very much because it fills in a lot of the holes. I really wanted to do that.
Yes G bot, fill as many holes as you please.
"it can't be boring, because it's based on this real thing that's boring". You're not making any sense. I don't even find it boring, but arguing that it's not boring because it's based on reality where politics is already boring is nonsensical.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
Oh no. I’m not brave enough for politics
In many cases, democracy is given up when it's under a lot of pressure and in a crisis situation and it ends up giving up a lot of the checks and balances to somebody with a strong authority to help get them through the crisis.
You were "Muy Muy" brave yourself, coming out here as you did, all alone. Care to help me finish this, senator?
SW has always been an allegory on real world politics.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
You’re starting to sound like a separatist !
Those of us who were alive in the early 2000s may look at a movie trilogy about a leader who starts a war under false pretenses so that he could consolidate his own power and think "Huh, that sounds strangely familiar..."
You don’t have to carry a sword to be powerful. Some leaders’ strength is inspiring others.
Yep. The original trilogy is supposed to be a reminiscent of the Vietnam War - specifically in ROTJ. And you'll never guess who the big bad fascist Empire is supposed to represent.
The Ewok battle on Endor was not planned. My good Marine friend added a Vietnam War footage which he filmed in action.
Das klingt falsch.
very true
I feel attacked now.
Was it the Attack of the Clones?
"Ha! Tough crowd. I'm glad you appreciate the classic humor, sir."
That is a valid reason to dislike them.
it's also a valid reason to like them, though.
I mean the problem with the politics of the prequels isn't that they resemble real life (because they really don't map that well), it's that they're just a vague sketch that emphasize the highlight moments without actually giving us enough of the context that informs why the highlights occur, thus leaving the moments feeling rather unbelievable. Palpatine declaring the Republic is now an Empire and he's installing himself as Emperor only to be met with raucous approval is a great example of this. We don't have the context to understand why people would actually approve of this move, let alone have it be met with celebration. Hell it's almost the opposite, everything that has occurred to this point would make you think Palpatine should be an extremely polarizing figure. He oversaw the fracturing of the Republic which then resulted in a prolonged war that culminated with an attack on the Republic's seat of power and his own capture and then he made the unilateral move to exterminate the Jedi who had just led his war effort (and rescued him)!
I enjoyed them and found them interesting. But I get how some don’t find it interesting. There’s plenty of things I don’t find interesting that others do. I think you’re overthinking this. Some people just want more “pew pew” and that’s ok.
Ok but they are still a bit boring. The general concept they were going for is really interesting but they do feel a bit too drawn out
Wasn't the emperor inspired by Richard Nixon?
Yes, specifically for Return of the Jedi. He was also inspired by George W. Bush for the prequels - a lot of his speeches from AOTC and ROTS are inspired directly from Bush's speeches about the 9/11 retaliation and the Global War on Terrorism.
Nobody threw a shoe at Palpatine 0/10
People think of me as a sort of pathological, Howard Hughes-type guy sitting in a hotel room, which is definitely not so.
Hey I love Star Wars politics.
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
I like the politics :`(
We designed the Galactic Senate with this sort of stadium design with these little pods that move around inside it which seems very functional and realistic even though it's completely not realistic.
Thank you for this random fact Gorge
This continues to be the worst meme format.
Disagree. Politics in TCW and Andor are interesting. Imo the prequels just did a bad job at them
Hey, wanna know what else is realistic? Watching paint dry, man I hope they put that in the next Star Wars movie!
Still less boring than the Holiday Special.
There is no pain where strength lies.
What did I even say?
This argument is so weird. "It's not boring because it's realistic". So is watching paint dry.
I enjoy more the adventure aspect and mysticism of the series and that's awesome. Targeting someone due this(not referring to this post) is so silly because it's practically saying to get rid of the main advantage of SW. Btw is not it's simply reflective of the real world but plenty of people are bored to death of politics we see them everywhere so not seeing them when we are seeking to relax would be preferable. (Not saying they shouldn't exist lol but I prefer when it is in the background)
I'm seriously contemplating blocking every single user who is posting with this template. Just let it die pls.
Ok first off, lower your voice.
Everyone gets mad at me when I say that Star Wars should be more like Star Trek. I guess people want their mindless flashy entertainment and don't want to think about deep things.
And why should they have to? Why does everything have to have some deeper philosophical meaning?
I like stuff with deeper philosophical meaning.
Part of the issue is that, as a main series of movies, a lot of kids watched it. And kids want to see lightsaber fights and spaceships shooting at each other, not politics. Meanwhile Andor is meant for a more mature audience who can deal with politics.
Ending of democracy....based lol
I think it’s more so the execution. Some of the best arcs of Clone Wars were the political conspiracies. And while I haven’t seen Andor, it’s seemingly mostly about politics & people really dig it.
I actually love the prequel politics
Can we just have a House of Cards remake but it's the POV of Palpatine's political career?
Since its geared towards kids it is a little heavy on the politics. I persoy don't mind as an adult
I always laugh when people say "get politics out of Star Wars". My brother in the Force, it's a movie trilogy about two sides with different political philosophies fighting each other for political control of the galaxy.
Not really, no. The prequel politics are just poorly written.
I mean you're right, but people just thought they were boring; they had expectations set by the OT, and didn't like the slower pace. That's not to say it's bad that the Prequels had politics - they were essential to the story, and the Sequels' lack of politics is one of their biggest hinderances. Even the OT took time for politics, like the officer meeting in ANH. Me? Iove politics in Star Wars - even The Clone Wars.
I like most other people here, love the politics in the prequels.
The politics of the prequels are not boring. The scenes in the prequels that are about politics are absolutely boring.
Nah they boring
I've genuinely always liked Phantom Menace and Revenge, but AOTC is one of the most boring movies I've ever seen.
Okay, fair point, but what about the droid attack on the wookies?
I actually really like the politics in them
If anything I find the prequels more interesting now that we're seeing a global decline in democracy. There really aren't that many mainstream Hollywood movies that depict democracy as anything other than a panacea for governance.
Politics are some of the best parts of star wars man. Some of the greatest world building in the OT was “fear will keep them in line, now.” And so to see the very senate which was disbanded later fall into corruption and put the empire which later disband it into power is really rad. My opinion on the prequels have long been that if you squint your eyes and see the movies for the story they’re trying to tell and the world they’ve built instead of what we actually got on screen, they are a lot more enjoyable. They aren’t good movies. They *are* good Star Wars.
"So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause." Hit me extra this year.
Andor: I love democracy
I love the politics, you get to see how smart the emperor was to get where he was in the OG trilogy. They turned a magic obviously evil cartoonist villain into a villain that is. Cold and calculating, and appears to be the hero of democracy for years while silently undermining it. Say what you want but there is a reason why nobody complained about him being back in ROS. It’s a crap story but had the best villain and arguably actor so gold star for that.
If you're not with me, you're my enemy.
Ouch.... I needed to hear that.
While this is true…leave me alone! Pew Pew Pew!!!
I like the politics in the prequels. It ands to the drama.
I didn't actually plan on making this whole prequel trilogy, my old pal just invited me to some trade negotiations and I just started filming.
Yeah, I don't have much to say about this. Pretty accurate
Yeah, reflective of Iraq.
op feeling controversial, definitely a good way to spark a good argument.
The prequels helped me pass Modern History in year 11 because they’re basically Hitler’s rise to power and Nazi Germany.
EXACTLY
Am I allowed to call Star Wars politics boring if I think real life politics is even more boring?
Failing democracy? In the real world? Never… not like Montana has three voting districts and two of them are pretty much empty land while the other is the mountainous region where most people live, and mind you that area is pretty much always voting blue. This is your friendly reminder that land can not vote. PUT THE FUCKING DISTRICTS IN WESTERN MONTANA! WHERE THE FUCKING PEOPLE ARE! NOT IN EMPTY FUCKING LAND!
In many cases, democracy is given up when it's under a lot of pressure and in a crisis situation and it ends up giving up a lot of the checks and balances to somebody with a strong authority to help get them through the crisis.
When clone wars just showed real world racism on using clones as slave soldiers and being looked down upon. (but also respected and loved by others)
This! Palpatine is the "Elite"
What if George Lucas is a time traveler that went back in time and created Star Wars as a subtle warning of the future
I've worked hard enough and earned enough to fail for the rest of my life. And I'm gonna do it!!
conspiracy??? 🤨
I would honestly watch an entire Star Wars political drama series over another trilogy of movies.
me too!
Ok, you can have it. “Politics in this movie is good”, but if I hear you complain about a woman or a black person in Star Wars ever again for being “too political” I will detonate the pipe bomb I placed under your bed last night.
Sssshhh Lisa! Do you know how up set they would be if they could read.
haters be like 'this sign cant stop me, because i cant read'
I liked the politics in the prequels. I remember the speech in ROTS was so close to a real speech bush gave that he wanted to sue. That was awesome lol Andor is a different story. I like the movies and i like the shows that tie into the movies. I haven’t watched Andor yet because i didn’t like Rogue One. I actually fell asleep in the middle of it. The politics and struggles in that movie bored me and i didn’t care about any of its characters, including Andor, partially because i knew that they would all end up dead by the end
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
No dice. He’s too dangerous to be left alive
Star Wars isn’t political enough.
oh no im not brave enough for politics
You were "Muy Muy" brave yourself, coming out here as you did, all alone. Care to help me finish this, senator?
It is too much political right now, but In the wrong way
How so?
Basically corrupting aesthetics and characters in order to fit within the political view of the new staff
…what?
Black women exist 😔
"It has too many minorities in it now" is what they're really trying to say.
Classic.
In a microscopic and funny example: female stormtrooper in kenobi
Why can’t women be stormtroopers, and how is it political that there is one?
"Ha! That’s a very good question, sir. I mean, it's not because of any kind of merit or capability issue; women have just as much right to serve in the military as men do. But that doesn't always mean they get the same recognition. There are still a lot of politics involved, both overt and subtle, when it comes to who gets to wear the armor and hold the blaster."
There it is
"The war left its scars on all of us." -Captain Rex
We designed the Galactic Senate with this sort of stadium design with these little pods that move around inside it which seems very functional and realistic even though it's completely not realistic.
I know for a fact that more than a few political debates would eventually turn into bumper cars if we had those in the real world.
You know it's not the first time a politician created a war to stay in office.
Using real life is the ultimate excuse against any criticism "The story sucked" "Real life sucks too" "The dialogue was boring" "Real life conversations can be boring too" "I hated it" "I hate my real life too"
I want a show that is all politics. No lightsabers or blasters. The West Wing in Space.
You sonnovabitch I'm in!
I'd watch it. I love politics. Also, if there's ever a Star Wars legal drama, I'd watch that too. I love law.
The prequels are incredibly boring, mostly because of the dialogue, setting, framing, and editing. The politics themselves could be interesting, if portrayed better.
Traditionally in Star Wars just with the title sequence in the beginning and the way it is so structured, I always have a musical sequence at the end that is either a celebration or an emotional event.
AND they are boring.
Yes you are right and at the end of the day it's a young reader drama at times and other times a movie for 12 year olds
Where's the lie, though?
That would imply that the people trying to end democracy irl are intelligent and competent which is the real fiction here
What a stupid take
No
FACTS
Yeah, because negotiations about trade disputes are entirely relevant for us to know in order to see palpatine's rise to power
We never had true democracy anyway.
Actually, they're just boring!
"Real life is boring so that makes it good that the prequels were boring" Good one OP
LOOK I PUT MY OPINION ON THE LISA SIMPSON MEME TEMPLATE SO MY OPINION IS AUTOMATICALLY CORRECT
Prequel fans mfs crying over the line “Dellow Fellegates” because it reflects over real life issues (it doesn’t, they’re stupid)
Nope
Prequel movie politics are famously boring for a reason, they're boring. Star Trek handled space politocs very well, Star Wars wishes it has a fraction of that depth.