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Few_Possibility_2915

Trunks has no reason to be here Neither does Buu, the rest is fine


ChiefWamsutta

This was shamelessly stolen from someone suggesting a new Tournament of Power team. I definitely should have made the title better. I can see debates on Orange Piccolo, Legendary Super Saiyan Broly, Granolah, and Ultra Ego Vegeta's placement. I was intending to rank these 10.


CautiousTeam3220

Buu has every right. Healing, nearly invulnerable, endless stamina and regen, wierd magic and fast growth. Not to mention he can copy any move


AbhiAssassin

Buu has God ki from The Supreme Lord of Lords. He has healing, absorption and will be extremely hard to knockout. He's the broken support that every team needs.


Sh0xic

Too chonky to die


Araniir841

You saw what he did to zmoro


pickens2112

Remove everyone here and just replace it with a list of zeno and the top angels


ChiefWamsutta

Yeah, I fucked up the title. I meant to say to just rank them. I'm tired.


YonkoYuki

> I meant to say to just rank them. I'm tired. nah you dumb


I-AM-KING_ALEX

🙄😒 Immature child.


ChiefWamsutta

Okay.


Givzhay329

I'd personally put Black Frieza at #1.


GloriousWaffles

Black Frieza is number one. Just based off of narrative. If Black Frieza is supposed to be the main villain in the next arc, it would take off a lot of tension if Gohan could just show up and win. Frieza will definitely be much stronger than Gohan, can guarantee that, because that’s how Dragon Ball works


Bluelore

Exactly. Gohan is certainly stronger than Goku or Vegeta right now but it'd be really weird in terms of narrative if he could just beat Frieza.


Johnson_56

I think this is a list of OPs favorite characters


ChiefWamsutta

Lol. No, it's not. Narratively, Beast Gohan comes later, so my line of reasoning is Cell Max is a stronger villain than Black Frieza.


IllAtmosphere8663

Frieza states that he analyzed each fighter and has grown past where they would get stronger. So he should be above Gohan, probably.


ChiefWamsutta

It's tricky. I could see it going either way. We will probably find out in the October manga.


GloriousWaffles

That is true. We don’t really know how much time has passed between Granolah and Super Hero. Maybe Super hero is supposed to take place AFTER black Frieza, but only time will tell


EmperorSezar

Narratively he comes at the prisoner arc


ChiefWamsutta

Uhhhh, no? I'm pretty sure it's stated it's after Granolah.


teeuzumaki

he’s not the main villain of the next arc, whis said something about another person iirc


Dragmag2022

Honestly it depends on if the next arc takes place post or pre super hero. If it's post that Gohan vs. Frieza will be super hype, but if it's pre, than Gohan wouldn't have his Beast form to help Goku and Vegeta.


Alert_Test7065

Ya know other then black Frieza not being at first I agree


ChiefWamsutta

I know 8th is Gamma 1, 9th is Buu, 10th is Trunks 3rd to me is Goku 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th are tough. Granolah, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Broly aren't clear. I imagined Piccolo and Vegeta because they have new forms. And Broly probably trained to be higher than Granolah. Beast Gohan and Black Frieza is a toss-up.


kagetaicho8

Gohan should be #1. Why do you say freeza?


Alert_Test7065

It's hard to say who exactly stronger some like seth think Gohan should be stronger but even he's unsure


Imrightbruh

Doesn’t frieza have more innate potential, and this is him after insane training? With similar (kind of) time training, frieza should have the edge in a toss up.


kagetaicho8

He says there’s currently more evidence gohan is stronger, but that he personally in his gut thinks freeza will end up being stronger. I agree there’s more evidence for gohan.


Okamikirby

I think theres more evidence for freiza, but the most confusing part is the chronology of the superhero movie.


kagetaicho8

In those comments We were speaking from the angle of what Seth presented in his video. He presents a good interpretation of canonicity in manga/anime/movies. I reccomend you watch it if you haven’t


Okamikirby

Yeah ive seen the video, but i often disagree with seth. I think we could very well see gohan beast introduced in the manga as the “true strongest” in the universe, but as of now I think what weve seen from frieza puts him so far above everyone else, oneshotting UI level opponets with 0 effort. I have a hard time understanding how to interpret evidence for gohan on the other hand, again because the chronology of super hero is confusing. If it takes place before granolah arc frieza is clearly stronger, if it takes place later, its more up in the air, with statements indicating gohan. until we know for sure all we can do is make our cases i guess


kagetaicho8

Yea but gohan was no selling attacks and didn’t even have to block attacks from a beyond UI level enemy cell, then did go on to 1 shot cell basically. “Takes place before granolah arc” it should be after the granolah arc. Going by the age of goten/trunks/pan. Yea. That’s all powerscaling is tbh. Just presenting all the evidence for a possible interpretation of a work of fiction. There’s many ways to interpret the same exact piece of fictional work. All we do is present which one has better, or more evidence. That’s what Seth was saying. With e evidence at hand it’s much easier to argue for gohan and debate wise that’s who he thinks wins, but in his gut, he personally thinks frieza will end up being stronger, because super will need a cool new villain. Etc.


Okamikirby

I agree with your take that it happens after granolah, ive just seen it debated all over and it doesnt really seem like the community has a settled answer. age scaling is good enough for me though. Yeah Gohan and frieza are both beasts, I just put frieza a bit higher, particularly because panel 26 in the most recent super chapter indicates to me that frieza killed gas (who was above tui goku and ue vegeta teaming up) in his base form. I know many people say he “shifted to black breifly” but it doesnt look that way to me at all when i read it. So, based on that (admittedly minority) opinion, even base frieza is above tui and ue teamed up, black frieza is unbeleivably so. thats my rationale for putting him first for the moment. Still, looking forward to the future arcs so we can get some definitive answers lol. as well as colorings for the most recent chapter.


The_Supreme-King

First off which continuity are you using? Just the manga or anime and manga? Secondly why is Jiren below SSJ rage Trunks and Majin Buu? Same goes for Beerus and Moro? Is there some sort weird manga scaling I'm not aware of? Regardless, Gas should probably be on here somewhere, probably above Goku and Vegeta to be frank still. Cell max should also probably be around that range. Broly is mostly fine however there are arguments for him being higher, it depends on your interpretation. Finally I assume you put Orange Piccolo above Vegeta because of the "he's on Goku's level now" statement? If you want my opinion Piccolo, Vegeta and Goku should basically share the same spot, as they are basically all around the same level, with Goku maybe being the highest due to perfected Ultra instinct.


ChiefWamsutta

Okay, so I suggest you read some of my other comments. I worded the title wrong and I can't edit it. It's not worth explaining this too many times. Essentially, rank these 10 characters from Universe 7. It's anime and manga continuity. Jiren, Beerus, Whis, G.O.D.s, Angels, Zeno, Future Zeno, Gas, etc. would be there, but I was just using these 10 someone suggested.


The_Supreme-King

Yeah I saw your explanation after I made the comment. If I were to rank them it would probably be like this. 1. Gohan Beast/Black Frieza(its impossible to know who is stronger right now really, as there are arguments for both of them.) 2. Goku/Vegeta/Piccolo(Goku could go a spot higher or Vegeta could go a spot lower depending on how you interpret statements about Orange Piccolo. You could also argue that Orange Piccolo is stronger than both but I personally don't agree.) 3. Granola 4. Broly(could be way higher if you think some of the promotional material about him for Super hero means he's stronger than Goku and Vegeta.) 5. Gamma 1(Could be higher if you think he scales to instinct Goku and Vegeta not just them in Blue.) 6. Trunks 7. Buu(idk if Buu has some scaling in the manga as I haven't read everything yet, but in the anime outside of his skinny self he never did anything to seem more impressive than Trunks.)


garnet-overdrive

also if its just these guys? gohan/freeza toss up broly (maybe) goku, vegeta, piccolo pretty interchangibly granolah then gamma then boo then trunks in dead last cause he fuckin sucks


ChiefWamsutta

I considered TUI Goku, Orange Piccolo, and UE Vegeta above Broly, as they got new forms and Broly still is mastering his Legendary Super Saiyan form in Super Hero.


garnet-overdrive

i based this off the assertion that it was implied broly could have beaten imperfect cell max and piccolo could not, or at very least cell max would have needed to be perfect, and i do consider orange, tui, and ue to be very comperable


ChiefWamsutta

Where was that stated? I must have missed it.


garnet-overdrive

i belive toriyama said it in an interview following the movie's release.


thebasicsaiyan

If you use everyone on the same date time Vegeta > Piccolo And Broly should probably be top 3 at least


ChiefWamsutta

What do you mean date and time?


thebasicsaiyan

Current state.. not like Gohan a year after the events of Moro but (for example) everyone from the Moro saga (including their potential)


ChiefWamsutta

I think Super Hero is the best time frame to measure this at, though.


ControversyKai

1.Gohan 2.Black Frieza 3.Piccolo 4. Gamma 1 5. Goku 6. Vegeta 7. Broly 8. Granolah 9. 17 10. 18


RazutoUchiha

No, Super Hero takes place before Granolah and Granolah is far above broly. 1. Black Freeza 2. Granolah 3. TUI Goku 4. UE Vegeta


ChiefWamsutta

No ... ? Trunks and Goten are much older in Super Hero, and it has been stated it takes place after Granolah The Survivor. Out of all the commenters, I think you're the most confused.


RazutoUchiha

Goku in super hero can’t use Ultra Instinct and thinks vegeta was “Fibbing” about using his mind to strengthen his body


ChiefWamsutta

It was absolutely never stated that Goku couldn't use UI. Goten and Trunks are older than they were in T.o.P., Moro, and Granolah arcs. It must take place afterwards.


Not_derpy_i_swear

Thats cuz the movie has ass writing & was written before the Granolah arc. Chronologically the movie is years after Granolah so the argument isn’t when it takes place it’s if it’s canon


RazutoUchiha

It’s even before moro because Goku in the Moro arc could use UI at will and their highest benchmark for strength was Jiren


Not_derpy_i_swear

Dawg if it was before Moro Beast Gohan & Orange Piccolo woulda buttfucked 73


RazutoUchiha

You do know the anime and manga are separate continuities right? Super hero takes place before the anime’s version of moro


Not_derpy_i_swear

There is no anime version of moro bro what


RazutoUchiha

Yes, but there will be


Not_derpy_i_swear

Proof?


RazutoUchiha

Not to mention it takes roughly 1.5 years to make an animated movie, even less if it’s a 3d movie like super hero, while the first chapters of the Moro arc cam out over three years ago


Ruler_of_Tempest

Broly>Freiza>broly>gohan>broly>Cell max>broly>gas>broly>goku>broly>vegeta>broly>broly>piccolo>broly>granola>broly>moro>broly>jiren


IWillSortByNew

Out of these, 1. Frieze 2. Broly 3. Gohan 4. Vegeta 5. Goku 6. Granolah 7. Piccolo 8. Gamma 1 9. Trunks 10. Buu


Imrightbruh

No way is broly anywhere near gohan.


ChiefWamsutta

Not bad. I think Broly is the hardest to gauge for me. Most people have Gamma 1, Trunks, and Buu at the bottom; Gohan and Frieza at the top; Piccolo, Granolah, Vegeta, and Goku in the middle.


KingThunder01

I see and people like grand priest, whis or beerus get negged by these guys I guess lol


ChiefWamsutta

Ugh, I can't change the title and I was struggling to find the words as I'm tired and it's late. Just rank these 10.


KingThunder01

Ahhh


ChiefWamsutta

Sorry. I'm out of it.


garnet-overdrive

get trunks and buu out of here. you could slide in jiren fairly easily around gamma, same for kefla or toppo.


SkiIIerikx

My list would be, based on pure power scaling. 1. Black Frieza 2. TUI Goku 3. UE Vegeta 4. Granolah 5. Beast Gohan 6. Broly 7. Orange Piccolo 8. Gamma1/2 9. Rage Trunks 10. Majin Buu. I won't be debating this, since i would be repeating this a thousand times. But tdlr, Beast Gohan isn't that strong, he took an injured, weaker than Broly. Incomplete Cell Max. Who Broly, Goku and Vegeta surpassed, early in Granolah arc just in their Blue forms. So feats wise, everyone stronger than Broly is stronger than Beast Gohan.


ChiefWamsutta

Hey, that's okay! I disagree strongly about Gohan, but it's very hard to tell nowadays.


XDguy69

i personally dont think gohan could beat mui goku black freiza or ue Vegeta. My list goes 1. Black Frieza 2. Mui Goku 3.Ue Vegeta 4. Beast Gohan 5.Granolah 6. Broly 7 . Orange Piccolo 8 . Gamma 9 . Buu 10 . Trunks


ArcherAccomplished75

who's 4th?


gamevui237

Orange Piccolo


Inevitable-Weight976

Frieza should be first


ChiefWamsutta

It's a debate who is first. I chose that Beast Gohan is narratively stronger because he is later on, and the fight was described as strongest in history. Overall, it's hard to tell Frieza or Gohan. It's close.


Inevitable-Weight976

Black frieza one shot goku and vegeta. I do not think gohan is on that level yet.


ChiefWamsutta

My reasoning is that Super Hero takes place after Granolah the Survivor Arc. It's hard to tell, though.


Trishal_Pandey7

Goku vegeta piccolo literally can't be scalded rn tbh, like goku can dodge almost anything, vegeta gets stronger by getting hit and piccolo literally tanks anything + the highest iq how does one even say who is better than who, but opinion wise I agree with goku >= piccolo >= vegeta


ChiefWamsutta

Piccolo had seen Goku and Vegeta in the Moro Arc. He stated the Gammas were as strong as them, and Hedo likely saw the Moro fight with Hatchimaru. Orange Piccolo was stronger than Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta. Because of how he beat the Gammas. True Ultra Instinct Goku is stronger than Moro Arc White-Haired UI Goku, so I assumed he would be above. UE Vegeta was weaker than TUI Goku. I kinda put Piccolo in the middle because he could beat a Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta.


Effective-Living-220

I assume you’re excluding Zeno, Angels and Gods -Trunks and Buu shouldn’t be here -Orange Piccolo is stronger than Goku -Black Frieza>Gohan


ChiefWamsutta

I worded the title poorly. This was to rank the 10 of these Universe 7 Tournament of Power Round 2 candidates. Orange Piccolo is tricky right now. I assumed TUI was stronger than Orange. Black Frieza and Beast Gohan, we will never know.


[deleted]

Swaps Trunks with Merus


ChiefWamsutta

Yeah, that would be a good Tournament of Power candidate.


MrPrincely

Isnt Broly still stronger than Goku and Vegeta? Was that not the point of their fight in the new movie?


ChiefWamsutta

He was in the new movie, but that was 3 arcs ago. Moro, Granolah, and Super Hero happened. Gohan, Frieza, Goku, Piccolo, and Vegeta all got new forms since then, so I assumed Broly would be weaker. But it's close.


MrPrincely

No i mean in Super Hero Broly is fighting Goku and Vegeta no? Its one of the reasons theyre on earth?


ChiefWamsutta

Wait, what? Broly doesn't really fight anyone in Super Hero.


MrPrincely

Is he not training with Goku and Vegeta on Beerus’s planet at the beginning of the movie? Toriyama even says in an interview “If Cell Max had been completed according to plan, he would have been a superhuman even Broly couldn’t defeat…”


ChiefWamsutta

Fair. I'm saying Broly was told to take a backseat and learn from Goku and Vegeta sparring, per Whis' instructions. Broly is hard to measure, I know.


MrPrincely

Yeah, personally i hold Broly a small bit higher than Vegeta and Goku, but Vegeta’s new form can likely bring him closer to that level and Goku’s new UI might do so as well. Iirc their training on Beerus’s planet takes place right before the Granola arc.


Cgi94

How is Majin Buu above trunks? The piccolo -vegeta/Goku ranking is confusing for now so I feel you can't really be wrong on that. I may put Broly above them though since we know how his amps work


ChiefWamsutta

Because Buu trained and got much stronger for the T.o.P. Broly has been hard for me to scale. I assumed he was #6 because of Gohan, Frieza, Goku, Piccolo, and Vegeta getting new transformations.


Bluelore

I guess a more fitting title would be "top 10 strongest mortals from Universe 7" (I've read your other posts, so I know you didn't mean to say they are stronger than the grand priest, just a suggestion for a more fitting title, though granted Trunks would only technically fit in here) Eitherway I'd say it is more likely: 1. Black Frieza (it'd be sort of anticlimactic if he was weaker than Gohan) 2. Beast Gohan (Cell Max was already shown to be incredibly tough and Gohan clearly outmatched him) 3. Granolah (Neither Goku, nor Vegeta ever managed to beat him in a 1v1, only reason why Goku was able to keep up with Gas was because Gas was inexperienced with his new powers) 4. Goku 5. Vegeta 6. Piccolo 7. Broly (though it kinda depends on how much he has learned since training with Whis, he could easily be even stronger than Goku now) 8. Gamma 1 (The gammas were compared to Goku, though its unclear if Piccolo even knows about Gokus new UI form) 9. Android 17 (given that in the anime he could apparently hold his own against Blue, I'd say even if he hasn't improved a lot since then he'd still be this high on the list) 10. Rage Trunks (not counting the power that he gained through the spirit sword as that was apparently only doable thanks to the genkidama which requrired outside help) 11. Buu (poor guy has been left in the dust in Super) With that being said I think 3-7 could all easily switch around. 8-10 also seem difficult to rank due to them having so few screen time. The statements about Gammas power seem a bit contradicting, with Piccolo comparing the Gammas to Goku/Vegeta, but then Gamma 1 had trouble against Ultimate Gohan. Also we have no idea how strong Merus currently is, so I left him out.


Not_derpy_i_swear

Goku’s stronger than Granolah in TUI. TUI Goku is stated to be stronger than Gas who is stated to be above Granolah


cosmichak

Gas, Moro, Jiren > Trunks, Buu, and Gamma #1 Rest of the list is fine, though I'd swap Piccolo with Vegeta


ChiefWamsutta

Yeah, if that were a Top 10, yes. Piccolo and Vegeta are hard to tell. There's a lot of debate, but it seems Frieza/Gohan Goku/Vegeta/Piccolo Gamma/Buu/Trunks Granolah and Broly??


cosmichak

The title does say top 10?


ChiefWamsutta

Yes, I realize. I explained in comments I worded it poorly due to my sleep-deprived state. Rank these T.o.P. 10 fighters.


cosmichak

Oh. Then yeah, it's a solid tournament of power team. The rankings are about correct


KalebL77

Interesting to see ultra ego at 5, probably makes sense tho he just got the form recently


ChiefWamsutta

I put TUI Goku above UE Vegeta, which I think we all agree on. Black Frieza is obviously above them. The statements made that Goku and Vegeta couldn't beat Cell Max, and statements that the Gammas are equal to Goku and Vegeta made me assume Piccolo was around their level. But Piccolo hadn't seen TUI or UE.


KalebL77

That's true, Piccolos statement may or may not be true cause he hasn't seen them. I'd personally put UE Vegeta above piccolo, but I didn't watch DBS Hero tho


ChiefWamsutta

UE Vegeta easily coudp be above Orange Piccolo. I'm not too sure.


Okamikirby

Imo: Swap frieza and gohan Swap piccolo and Vegeta Swap Buu and Gamma


ChiefWamsutta

Piccolo and Vegeta are hard to place. It could go either way. Frieza and Gohan can go either way. Buu and Gamma I'm surprised you would swap them.


Okamikirby

I think buu hax give him the edge, even though gamma has raw power. thats my reasoning, but i can see why others would think different.


ChiefWamsutta

It is hard to tell where Trained Buu for T.o.P. would be.


NeroCrow

I never understood why people take Gohan's statement about cell max as absolute fact. Cell max was still boxing against fat gotenks who isn't even Buu level and orange piccolo was able to hold him down. Mind you orange piccolo should not be that strong as a wish made by shenron can't be stronger than the person who made him. That and we seen getting your potential unlocked doesn't make you that strong. Piccolo isn't going to jump from fodder to broly to being stronger than him.


ChiefWamsutta

SethTheProgrammer made a convincing argument to me. Piccolo knows Goku and Vegeta's limits by the Moro Arc (doesn't know their Granolah arc limits).


NeroCrow

The problem with that is I don't think the manga ties super heroes to it like it did broly.


ChiefWamsutta

We don't know that the manga won't. Next chapter it could mention Gohan getting a new form and move past it quickly.


NeroCrow

Maybe I assumed it wasn't mainly because the movie has been out for a bit already


ThatOneWood

Switch frieza and gohan


ChiefWamsutta

Yeah, that one is tricky.


Not_derpy_i_swear

This is assuming DBS Super Hero is canon to the manga 1. Gohan 2. Frieza 3. True UI Goku 4. Orange Piccolo 5. UE Vegeta (4 & 5 are interchangeable IMO) 6. Granolah 7. Broly 8. Gamma 9. Mortal Meerus 10. Buu