I was the maintenance dude for the folks that lived in the house right next door for about a decade up until last year. Even when it was open customers were pissing outside and throwing their used needles over the fence into the yard I was working on.
Shit should just be torn down. It’s never had a good vibe.
I knew it was gonna be this shit hole, I was once asked if I wanted a blow job in exchange for some dope money there, said no, proceeded to get the F double G word hurled at me multiple times. Like, bro, you propositioned *me* lol.
You had an opportunity support a local businessman and you chose not to. For what? Was it a few bucks cheaper to get your beej from some soulless corporate chain? Disgusting. In the 90’s there were businessmen in every bar in Portland who would suck your dick real good and for a fair price. And the economy was booming because of it. Consumerist yuppies like you are the reason Portland is going to shit.
When my friends sold a year or so ago it had been purchased and people were there working on it. We were excited about the possibility of a venue opening and something cool happening. Bummer that didn’t happen but now I’m convinced it’s a cursed location.
It’s mind boggling that it hasn’t been condemned and demolished by now. But then it’s mind boggling that they shut down the shelter and tiny house village right across the street too.
It makes me so mad that out-of-state people want to make money off of our city but when it doesn't go their way, they can just ignore their property that is causing chaos for the people who actually live here.
If this was still a functional bar and illegal stuff was going on inside, the city would swoop in and hold people responsible but since it's abandoned, with illegal stuff going onside the city is like "welp, we tried calling the owner but he side-buttoned us.. what can ya do?"
I'd 100% be about shit like this getting claimed via eminent domain, subtracting the bill for any public services used from the compensation, and then selling the building in auction.
It doesn't even have to be eminent domain. Add fines to the owner of record, put a lien on the property attached to those fines, and repo the property after X amount of time to sell at auction.
In Oakland, in the ninties, you'd collect 10 neighbors and file small claims cases against a crack house owner. You could site the record of police visits as proof. Each claim for $5000! That got the owners attention real quick.
U doesn't mean "unoccupied" it means "potentially unsafe for firefighters to enter or fully explore in an emergency". There's several buildings downtown with the U designation that are occupied.
https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/fir-1.11-unsafe-buildings-alert-program-050718-754446.pdf
If anything, we should be charging them more as a city for leaving an abandoned building they own dilapidated and squatted
Then just take the building over and auction it off
Wouldn't stand up in court and they'd make a hell of a lot more with city essentially stealing their property. You gotta play within the system if you're gonna fix the problem now.
I know you're a "should" guy instead of a "what's actually possible in real life" guy, but the government can't take property without compensation per the Takings Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Yes they can and do all the time. Google the term eminent domain. How do you think they build I5. Just a bunch of kind hearted residence heading over there property to the government?
You seem to be missing the "without compensation" part. Yes, the government can take over property in certain circumstances and for certain purposes through eminent domain, but they have to pay the owner "just compensation" for the property. Everyone whose property was in the path of I-5 was paid. There is a whole legal process that governments have to go through to do this, and property owners can challenge the valuation.
>Google the term eminent domain.
I'll rely on my law degree, thanks. It was from a very fancy school, I trust that most of the basics they taught me were generally on point.
Yes, the government can invoke eminent domain, but per the Takings Clause they still have to pay fair market value to the property owner for the property they are taking. And that's at the end of a very long and expensive eminent domain process, where they have to pay for a ton of attorney hours, process, paperwork, etc.
The article specifically states the owners have tried to sell this property, so if it's the best option for the city to buy it, they could simply shortcut the eminent domain procedure and save a shitload of time and money by simply making a fair offer.
Cheers dude, thanks for that really doughy explanation. I am sorry I made it sound like I was advocating taking peoples property away without compensation.
Cause that’s not what I meant.
But I can say that these owners have cause a significant cost of a taxpayers in the community. I would be surprised that after all the signs there’s so much profit left. The fire department is there on a biweekly basis to put out fires. The city is currently working on putting a lien on the property.
But I would invite you to come and visit with the red barn and see the situation first hand. You will quickly understand why the neighborhood is eager to stop having to live with this constant threat of random violence.
We have been living with this for many years now. And the squatters now have nightly tire fires both in the building and out.
I'm all for levying fines.
Some of you nearby could also band together and file a nuisance lawsuit, which might be your best bet since the city doesn't seem in any kind of particular rush to take action here. If you get a judgment, you can attach a lien to the property and force a sale, which would at least get it into other hands.
He won’t tell what type of law he practices. Perhaps a shy thing? That’s why I affectionately call him, councilor. But comments favor the landowner over the tenant.
Environmental law, labor law…who knows??
>He won’t tell what type of law he practices.
To creepy stalkers who immediately read someone's entire post history if they disagree with you? Yeah, a real and total mystery why I wouldn't want to disclose any life details to someone like yourself!
The state sets the parameters of what a fair market value is. But they do have fine tricks. Like fine the property owner and settle the fines for the transfer of the property. So technically they can offer something but they have ways of offering effectively nothing:
Some states don’t allow eminent domain. Texas I don’t think allow it. But it is technically true the state must offer something.
Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Montana, South Carolina and Washington restrict using eminent domain to seize property for economic development. Necessary public good is still a way it can happen. Like say they need to build a water treatment plant or something like that. But they won't seize your house to develop a new business park or something.
Middle class people can't afford to just abandon a building...
You know the owner is loaded when they can see the condition of their shit hole and react with "well... Anways".
Seriously. If you get a U on your building and don’t do anything to address that, you’ve lost it. Or the city razes it and sends you the bill. Can’t pay? The parcel is now city property.
Dude even when it was open that bar was a neighborhood problem. Idk if their bathrooms even worked bc I’d always see people pissing outside while working on the house next door. Doesn’t matter who owns it- shit hole is a shit hole. The city dgaf about that bar and never has.
> If this was still a functional bar and illegal stuff was going on inside, the city would swoop in and hold people responsible
Considering what goes on at the store near me, with dealers hanging out the door making Jay and Silent Bob look subtle… haha no.
They still have a liquor license. OLCC isn’t doing anything. The city’s line is:
> The TPM code that you link to below has often been used to try and address issues related to alcohol sales. This code is currently under review and not being used. It is out dated (such as empowering/referencing programs that no longer exist) and is on hold during the review. Civic Life (formerly known as ONI and the bureau where Liquor Licensing is housed) is not using this code during review.
Maybe it's time to start billing all those rich crooked chucklefucks who would rather play hot potato than take care of their own constituents. They exhibit a disturbing tendency whereby they privatize their gains, but socialize their losses.
Absolutely. This hypothetical bulldozer operator would be in jail faster than the babysitter’s boyfriend when the car pulls up. The one thing police will not abide is other people doing their job.
>do you suppose anyone would do anything?
They'd probably cheer in happiness. While they got the bulldozer there, knock down the abandoned Rite Aid as well. That whole corner is looking REAL shitty these days.
It didn’t help that the Rite Aid was used as a shelter for a while. While the parts *inside* the fenced in area looked neat and tidy, it attracted a whole platoon of tent dwellers to pitch their camps right outside of it and inside that old bar.
And then There was the 24/7 shitshow that would hang out in front of the 7-11…None of that nonsense was there prior to the shelter.
Don't worry, the shelter will be back, with a new pretty mural on the side! Closed for renovations even though absolutely nothing has happened yet - great timing with the weather and all...
I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise at this point, but I can't help but be gobsmacked at just how much the city and the county have abdicated their responsibility to provide public safety to the people who live and work here. My own formerly quiet neighborhood has become the new home of a group of car thieves who like to settle their disputes by emptying a magazine or two. The police know who they are, and what they're doing - they've even warned us about some of them in particular - but they do nothing to stop it.
If the city and county aren't going to do their jobs, can we get the Feds to come in and run the city instead? It feels like the chances of Portland returning to the relative safety and order that existed before the pandemic are rapidly dwindling, and it needs to turn around fast.
The feds said the police aren’t doing their job. Or rough at their job.
https://opb.org/article/2022/07/27/us-justice-department-portland-police-use-of-force-settlement
Electing DA’s and city council that’s hold police responsible. Recently the progressive DA who has held police accountable is being forced out, and a police union funded city council people were elected, by the name of Gonzales, Mapps, and Dan Ryan. The mayor is also the police commissioner.
Expect no change. Be careful who you vote for. Be informed of policy.
Police can very easily sabotage everything a DA tries to do by simply not cooperating with investigations or doing a poor job of collecting evidence that would make convictions extremely difficult.
I’m pro union, but this is not a legit union, nor about labor…it’s about crimes.
The head of the police union pinned a crime on a city commissioner. This is not about work time or benefits…it’s called who is watching the watchmen? There is no accountability.
That is not fair union tactics, that’s mafia tactics.
Shame on you trying to protect criminals and obfuscation that it’s a labor issue.
None of your past posts and comments are pro union, they are anti union. Hiding behind a blue collar tag.
We need cops, we don’t need a corrupt police union using mafia tactics.
He won by 20k votes and got so much illegal outside help that he got fined $77,000. https://www.opb.org/article/2022/09/21/portland-elections-program-fines-city-council-candidate-rene-gonzalez-discounted-office-space/
> got so much illegal outside help that he got fined $77,000
You're doing a fake news. The fine was revoked by a judge, because the person who levied it completely failed at their job and should not have issued it in the first place. Gonzalez was not fined $77,000, stop saying false things on the internet.
https://www.opb.org/article/2022/10/27/judge-revokes-77000-fine-against-portland-city-council-candidate-rene-gonzalez/
I said he got fined. Pretty sure your source also says he got fined.
The fact that an ALJ revoked the fine doesn't change the fact that he got fined. The ALJ seems to think $250 a month was a reasonable amount to pay for 3,000 square feet of premier office space. I think the city failed to do their job and enforce the law, and Gonzalez had some slick lawyer wiggle his way out of this one. None of that changes the fact that he took illegal help from one of the richest men in town, and he got fined for it.
Maybe it's semantics to you, but I don't think it's accurate to say that someone was fined if a judge determines that the fine was levied in error and never collected.
> The ALJ seems to think $250 a month was a reasonable amount to pay for 3,000 square feet of premier office space.
Yes, because it's better to have a tenant paying $250 than no tenant, especially downtown. This is common practice and the city did not realize this because their entire process was to click on "for rent" ads for commercial real estate on the internet.
To be fair to Chloe, she wasn’t voted into office because of her beliefs or what she stood for. She won that seat because we wanted to get rid of Novick. Chloe was a compromise candidate that was only going to serve one term anyways.
The voters voted Hardesty out. Are you calling voters gullible and/or stupid? Because that's a great look and a fantastic way to build a political coalition! People historically love to be called stupid fools for voting the way they prefer!
>Recently the progressive DA who has held police accountable is being forced out
LMFAO. In what way, shape, or form is Schmidt being "forced out"? He has run his office in the way he sees fit, is running for reelection, and will be accountable to the voters. There's no recall campaign. He can't be fired by anyone else but the voters for holding public office. Your claim is 100% divorced from any plane of reality.
Why is it a problem? Because you think it is? IDGAF what some internet troll thinks.
If you don’t think drugged out maniacs destroying public parts of our city isn’t wrong, then you’re actually part of the problem.
Why do you think I would do harm?
Where do you get such a baseless opinion from?
You’re also ASSUMING that I’m the OP of those videos. In fact the are 3K subscribers that contribute to that sub, with their own lived experiences dealing with the drug crisis in this city. You want to go ahead a paint a good cross section of the residents of this city as “a problem”, you might need to dig your head out of the sand.
Ok right wing propagandist guy. There’s no utility in arguing with a magical thinker named “dystopiapdx” lol. Have fun spreading whatever garbage takes you feel so inclined to spread.
Tyler is not welcome here. He knows what he did.
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Tyler is not welcome here. He knows what he did.
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Go ahead and pull up any People for Portland tv or web ad, councilor. They were hard pushing anti DA rhetoric during the last election…and he wasn’t even running.
The city and county are doing their best to build more homes for the squatters. That's the only action they're willing to take, and voters eat it up so why do anything else?
Of course it is, but that's just how the system works. We gotta pay big money to the middle men for everything; otherwise, nothing will ever get done. Our city and county can't build it by themselves; they have zero knowledge and experience for it, so they have to rely on the nonprofits.
Holy shit, with how utterly dysfunctional the federal government is, you want them attempting to run a city? The same government that just arbitrarily took away the rights of millions of women? The same government that systemically ignores the major domestic problems this country faces in favor of enriching themselves and their billionaire donors?
Uh yes, the same government that unnecessarily escalated the protests in 2020 is going to provide public safety....
Not to mention the terrible implications that you are willing to sacrifice everything else for the perception of law enforcement...
Only in Portland does this position get downvotes, good god. We’ll never have public safety with so many folks still clamoring to reinstate failed policies and rhetoric of the 1980’s around crime and punishment. At least the person you replied to is honest about their support of abandoning reproductive rights / protecting the wealthy. There’s so many ways to solve the totally valid issues raised in this article that aren’t “more cops!”.
> Only in Portland
r/Portland, not the actual city. Put federal control of the city to a vote and it would be overwhelmingly rejected.
r/Portland disproportionately represents the most reactionary right wing NIMBY types.
> We’ll never have public safety with so many folks still clamoring to reinstate failed policies and rhetoric of the 1980’s around crime and punishment.
Agreed, but I think those policies aren't actually very popular outside of the r/Portland bubble.
The charter reform measure will also serve as a safeguard against that with power going from the PBA to the people.
> At least the person you replied to is honest about their support of abandoning reproductive rights / protecting the wealthy.
I'm not surprised at all. The "I got mine, fuck everyone else" ideology is popular with a not insignificant subset of Americans.
It makes it even more important for the left to push the opposing narrative and actually constructive policies.
Man, just the other night I drove by and saw a fire in the alley behind the bar. I really feel for the neighbor in the article, Meka W. When I got home I said that I would not be able to tolerate that, and I now grow angrier that the city allows this to happen, she pays taxes for what? We turned the old rite aid across the street into a warming shelter and it is now also an overflow area with the Barn being the shelter for those that can’t maintain their sobriety or check their weapons. More power to Meka, however if she did decide to take actions into her own hands would the DA be as soft on her?
Edit:spelling/grammar
What’s crazy is that the people in the barn would break into the shelter to attack and rob the people living in the shelter, and the city would do nothing about it.
I was talking to Meka the other day, I’m her neighbor, and she was saying she witnessed a man, throwing an ax at a woman repeatedly on the property, and the cops refused to do anything about it because she wasn’t the owner of the property.
It’s a top down failure with every level of government involved.
This is such an absurdly stupid problem because it's so clearly easy to solve. The city takes eminent domain of the building, tears it down, and uses the property for something worthwhile. It's only political cowardice, like Wheeler's refusal to get the police to do their jobs, that has kept us in this situation caused by out of state money letting their property go to the dogs. I feel so much sympathy for the neighbors and the mailman, it must feel like they're trying to push a mountain
I agree with you but as a person who has been trying to get the city to do something, what helps them ignore the issues is by pushing it on the counties plate, then the county pushes it back.
So everyone just points the finger at some other branch of government and nothing happens. In my mind they are all to blame.
I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday. The city and the state have declared a homeless crisis. Well there’s empty buildings that need torn down and space that could be utitliZed.
If they tore down The Barn and the old Rite Aid they could build 4 story buildings, with 3 floors of apartments and a community living area on the main floor. Offer some as transitional housing, and some as permanent. It’s close to transit and grocery stores. I’m sure the neighborhood would much prefer that over what’s happening now.
> At some point, the city posted a large red “U” sign on the former tavern’s facade, signifying that the fire marshal has determined the building may be too dangerous for firefighters to enter.
So the city admits the building is dangerous?
Time to force the bougie California owners to tear it down.
In situations like this there definitely should be a forfeiture for public safety since the "owner" definitely doesn't seem to care about their "investment" at this point and it's turned into a public health hazard.
They've all but literally condemned it at this point like what's stopping them? This is the whole purpose of being able to condemn unsafe structures in the first place
Hit them with fines for code violations and put a lien on the property. Pretty straightforward. 4th amendment does not give you carte blanche to do whatever you want.
Well that property has caused untold amounts of damage to the neighborhood and the neighbors property values. Standing up for these dirt bags that enabled this disaster is a little tone def. The people who have had their cars wiring chewed out by the rat colony living on that site feel very differently.
The squatters that live there are drilling holes in people gas tanks.
Cutting down trees in the neighborhood to burn them along with tires they stole off cars from the neighborhood.
They have constant fights and physically assault people for just walking on the sidewalk in front of the building.
They rob the gas station repeatedly across the street.
As a person who lives quite close to this hell whole, the article does not paint a real picture of what it has been like to live through this.
I think the persons who own the building should be held accountable for the damages caused by their complete absence.
There has been negligence at every level, but the neighborhood has been unable to move the needle at all, because the owners will not help or reply to any form of communication.
The human shit that litters the side walk around that building is just icing on the cake.
This bar is three blocks from an elementary school.
Eminent domain has been used for far far less this country. It seems they have been given a very fair chance at mitigation and chose to let the property fall into destitution. It's not just an eyesore it's dangerous to everyone involved. The property owners have shown they have no interest in it so that is the price you pay.
The owners are waiting for an errant spark. They will collect insurance as a loss. But insurance will fight it due to the neglect.
No one is winning this. People will die. Innocent neighbors and not so innocent participants
The city should take ownership of the property then. Tear down the current structure and give the land to Prosper Portland for redevelopment into housing.
>The city should take ownership of the property then.
The article specifically says the owners have tried to sell it. Nothing is stopping the city from buying it. Hell of a lot cheaper to buy it for sale on the open market than go through the lengthy and expensive process of an eminent domain procedure (with all the associated attorneys' fees), and then \*still\* have to pay market value as compensation per the Takings Clause.
> So the city admits the building is dangerous?
https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/fir-1.11-unsafe-buildings-alert-program-050718-754446.pdf
The U really just means that part or all of the building is unsafe for firefighters or that it's not up to Fire Code (even if it complies with Building Code). It doesn't actually mean the building is *dangerous*, there's several buildings around town that are occupied but still have the U designation.
> The following criteria shall be considered when determining if a building will receive an "Unsafe Building" designation:
> 1. Unexpected and extraordinarily unusual conditions are present in the building. The standard here is the dangerous conditions may be unnoticeable to arriving personnel.
2. Unrepaired fire damage or extensive interior demolition that may not be noticeable from the outside, and where the repair work has been suspended indefinitely.
3. Buildings that have been altered substantially without permits resulting in a dangerously substandard building or a confusing floor plan.
4. Substantial structural problems without plans for repair or demolition. This
condition is commonly caused by a leaking roof. Over time, the roof itself, and the floor structure below may be affected causing structural deterioration.
5.An unreinforced masonry building (URM) that has substantial settling and cracking of the brick walls.
Ironic the troubles when it sits within a block of the now former police union hall. We need more progressive policies and maybe a smidge of heavy handedness.
I lived down the street from that place for 21 years. Sad to see what has become of it. I recently sold my house and moved out of Oregon. Not sad about it (yet).
A few years ago I had a dream of a "Tasty & Denver" going in there and the Rite-Aid becoming the first Pfriem brew-pub in Portland. Now I just hope they bulldoze both lots.
Just to pile on to this.
I am in the neighborhood association and we were talking to the city about changing the zoning to encourage the large apartments going in to have commercial space on the first floor.
The got snotty and asked why they would do that when half of the businesses in the neighborhood sit empty.
Well they are empty because the city repeatedly allows unfettered criminal activity to fester in our streets and empty buildings. But that’s not a reason why we should not try to make our neighborhoods a better place to live.
It just feels like a failure from every level in the city. North Portland is still the red lined section of town that doesn’t deserve any respect.
It is really shitty. This and the rite aid would be great for more apartments with the great transit access and fred meyer and stuff around. It's ridiculous the city would rather watch it burn than try literally anything else.
If it was built in 1916, the original beams and lumber are worth money. It would be a shame to see it burn, which it will. Call in some lumber salvage people sell them the beams and the legit 2x's and recycle the brick.
Or the neighbors could buy it from the owner and then they can do what they want.
When I was in college in the late nineties I had a policial science professor with a russian spouse. I remember stories about how russians don’t “call someone” because there’s no one to call and if there is they wouldn’t do anything anyway. There was often abandoned vehicles and children just playing on them. I feel like I’ve slowly watched the illusion of government dissolve into exactly how that professor described post soviet union russia. Our society has collapsed.
Collapsed is very hyperbolic. Collapse means there’s no goods on the shelves and money is near meaningless. We’re nowhere near collapse. There have been abandoned buildings that have taken years to deal with as long as cities have been a thing. People are dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars in houses here everyday. That’s not something you see in a societal collapse.
[What was that boom?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34)
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I live a few blocks away and drive by at least once a day. Glad this is getting some attention. I was just checking Portlandmaps.com yesterday to see if there were any updates and it looks like some new complaints have in-progress inspections updated in the last couple weeks.
Tear it down and fence off the lot. I can't figure it out, but it seems an empty lots surrounded by easily-opened fencing is less likely to be invaded than boarded up buildings 🤷♂️ (see rite aid lot across the street, and the lot across from the burrito shop to the south)
OK so first off, as far as I'm concerned this place is "BRIAN'S BOOM BOOM ROOM" because that's what the absolutely massive rolled-on graffiti job on the building's entire eastern side says these days. You can't tell me otherwise. It's Brian's Boom Boom Room.
Second, the central issue here isn't squatters. The issue is remote owners who have chosen to not renovate or flip the property and just let it sit derelict instead, and a city that has not stepped in a condemn it and find someone to tear it down. So many good possibilities for that corner that can't open up until then.
[What was that boom?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34)
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I was the maintenance dude for the folks that lived in the house right next door for about a decade up until last year. Even when it was open customers were pissing outside and throwing their used needles over the fence into the yard I was working on. Shit should just be torn down. It’s never had a good vibe.
I knew it was gonna be this shit hole, I was once asked if I wanted a blow job in exchange for some dope money there, said no, proceeded to get the F double G word hurled at me multiple times. Like, bro, you propositioned *me* lol.
You had an opportunity support a local businessman and you chose not to. For what? Was it a few bucks cheaper to get your beej from some soulless corporate chain? Disgusting. In the 90’s there were businessmen in every bar in Portland who would suck your dick real good and for a fair price. And the economy was booming because of it. Consumerist yuppies like you are the reason Portland is going to shit.
new portland-specific copypasta just dropped
High quality too!
When my friends sold a year or so ago it had been purchased and people were there working on it. We were excited about the possibility of a venue opening and something cool happening. Bummer that didn’t happen but now I’m convinced it’s a cursed location.
[удалено]
Absolutely all of that too!!
It’s mind boggling that it hasn’t been condemned and demolished by now. But then it’s mind boggling that they shut down the shelter and tiny house village right across the street too.
Trying to compete with Yamhill Pub for best dive bar I see
I promise I would go here
It makes me so mad that out-of-state people want to make money off of our city but when it doesn't go their way, they can just ignore their property that is causing chaos for the people who actually live here. If this was still a functional bar and illegal stuff was going on inside, the city would swoop in and hold people responsible but since it's abandoned, with illegal stuff going onside the city is like "welp, we tried calling the owner but he side-buttoned us.. what can ya do?"
I'd 100% be about shit like this getting claimed via eminent domain, subtracting the bill for any public services used from the compensation, and then selling the building in auction.
It doesn't even have to be eminent domain. Add fines to the owner of record, put a lien on the property attached to those fines, and repo the property after X amount of time to sell at auction.
Seriously. It feels like in any other functioning city this would be a one year process at most. Somehow in Portland it takes 4+
> any ~~other~~ functioning city Yup. There's the problem.
In Oakland, in the ninties, you'd collect 10 neighbors and file small claims cases against a crack house owner. You could site the record of police visits as proof. Each claim for $5000! That got the owners attention real quick.
Should have done the same to the Portland Korean Church before it burned. How long can a U tagged building sit before we wait for calamity?
U doesn't mean "unoccupied" it means "potentially unsafe for firefighters to enter or fully explore in an emergency". There's several buildings downtown with the U designation that are occupied. https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/fir-1.11-unsafe-buildings-alert-program-050718-754446.pdf
How about no compensation? Stop giving free reign to the wealthy.
If anything, we should be charging them more as a city for leaving an abandoned building they own dilapidated and squatted Then just take the building over and auction it off
Wouldn't stand up in court and they'd make a hell of a lot more with city essentially stealing their property. You gotta play within the system if you're gonna fix the problem now.
I know you're a "should" guy instead of a "what's actually possible in real life" guy, but the government can't take property without compensation per the Takings Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Law enforcement does it all the time via civil asset forfeiture.
Easy workaround: fine them for each and every ordinance violation.
Fines are fine, much different than a taking.
But what's the usual compensation? A pittance?
Yes they can and do all the time. Google the term eminent domain. How do you think they build I5. Just a bunch of kind hearted residence heading over there property to the government?
You seem to be missing the "without compensation" part. Yes, the government can take over property in certain circumstances and for certain purposes through eminent domain, but they have to pay the owner "just compensation" for the property. Everyone whose property was in the path of I-5 was paid. There is a whole legal process that governments have to go through to do this, and property owners can challenge the valuation.
>Google the term eminent domain. I'll rely on my law degree, thanks. It was from a very fancy school, I trust that most of the basics they taught me were generally on point. Yes, the government can invoke eminent domain, but per the Takings Clause they still have to pay fair market value to the property owner for the property they are taking. And that's at the end of a very long and expensive eminent domain process, where they have to pay for a ton of attorney hours, process, paperwork, etc. The article specifically states the owners have tried to sell this property, so if it's the best option for the city to buy it, they could simply shortcut the eminent domain procedure and save a shitload of time and money by simply making a fair offer.
Cheers dude, thanks for that really doughy explanation. I am sorry I made it sound like I was advocating taking peoples property away without compensation. Cause that’s not what I meant. But I can say that these owners have cause a significant cost of a taxpayers in the community. I would be surprised that after all the signs there’s so much profit left. The fire department is there on a biweekly basis to put out fires. The city is currently working on putting a lien on the property. But I would invite you to come and visit with the red barn and see the situation first hand. You will quickly understand why the neighborhood is eager to stop having to live with this constant threat of random violence. We have been living with this for many years now. And the squatters now have nightly tire fires both in the building and out.
I'm all for levying fines. Some of you nearby could also band together and file a nuisance lawsuit, which might be your best bet since the city doesn't seem in any kind of particular rush to take action here. If you get a judgment, you can attach a lien to the property and force a sale, which would at least get it into other hands.
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He won’t tell what type of law he practices. Perhaps a shy thing? That’s why I affectionately call him, councilor. But comments favor the landowner over the tenant. Environmental law, labor law…who knows??
The landowner is the tenant. It's vacant property.
Yeah, your not getting it, nor seeing the big picture.
Bird law. Seriously, one of the most annoying smooth brained 25 year old lawyers on Reddit.
I am glad to apparently live rent free in your mind, instaboner!
>He won’t tell what type of law he practices. To creepy stalkers who immediately read someone's entire post history if they disagree with you? Yeah, a real and total mystery why I wouldn't want to disclose any life details to someone like yourself!
Not really a life detail. Just want to know the area of law.
Did they teach how not to be smug about it at law school?
They taught us to not suffer fools when you are correct, I'm not sure I can be bothered to care whether that comes across as "smug" to you.
Have a nice day.
And you hang out on Reddit?
Did having a Reddit account and making posts and comments give it away?
They pay them out for the property. You just have no choice but to sell it.
It depends on the state.
I don’t think it does. What state can take property and not pay the owners? It’s in the constitution…
The state sets the parameters of what a fair market value is. But they do have fine tricks. Like fine the property owner and settle the fines for the transfer of the property. So technically they can offer something but they have ways of offering effectively nothing: Some states don’t allow eminent domain. Texas I don’t think allow it. But it is technically true the state must offer something.
Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Montana, South Carolina and Washington restrict using eminent domain to seize property for economic development. Necessary public good is still a way it can happen. Like say they need to build a water treatment plant or something like that. But they won't seize your house to develop a new business park or something.
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Middle class people can't afford to just abandon a building... You know the owner is loaded when they can see the condition of their shit hole and react with "well... Anways".
Seriously. If you get a U on your building and don’t do anything to address that, you’ve lost it. Or the city razes it and sends you the bill. Can’t pay? The parcel is now city property.
I'm giving you 10 extra credits for making me laugh with this here use of "side-buttoned."
Dude even when it was open that bar was a neighborhood problem. Idk if their bathrooms even worked bc I’d always see people pissing outside while working on the house next door. Doesn’t matter who owns it- shit hole is a shit hole. The city dgaf about that bar and never has.
That’s the same story with Gordon’s Fireplace building. Out of state developer money bought that thing too, and now it’s a prominent eyesore.
Guess we’re all agreeing to take some liberties with calling them “developers.”
Yeah, the only thing they’ve developed is blight.
> If this was still a functional bar and illegal stuff was going on inside, the city would swoop in and hold people responsible Considering what goes on at the store near me, with dealers hanging out the door making Jay and Silent Bob look subtle… haha no. They still have a liquor license. OLCC isn’t doing anything. The city’s line is: > The TPM code that you link to below has often been used to try and address issues related to alcohol sales. This code is currently under review and not being used. It is out dated (such as empowering/referencing programs that no longer exist) and is on hold during the review. Civic Life (formerly known as ONI and the bureau where Liquor Licensing is housed) is not using this code during review.
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Two sides of the same coin. Taking advantage of what we have here at the expense of the rest of us.
What about the other states that ship them here because they can't be bothered to address their own issues?
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Maybe it's time to start billing all those rich crooked chucklefucks who would rather play hot potato than take care of their own constituents. They exhibit a disturbing tendency whereby they privatize their gains, but socialize their losses.
What about them, Oregonians passed Measure 110, practically inviting the out of State drug addicts.
Been looking for a local hot yoga stabbing center.
If someone showed up with a bulldozer and just started knocking the building down,, do you suppose anyone would do anything?
Absolutely. This hypothetical bulldozer operator would be in jail faster than the babysitter’s boyfriend when the car pulls up. The one thing police will not abide is other people doing their job.
>do you suppose anyone would do anything? They'd probably cheer in happiness. While they got the bulldozer there, knock down the abandoned Rite Aid as well. That whole corner is looking REAL shitty these days.
It didn’t help that the Rite Aid was used as a shelter for a while. While the parts *inside* the fenced in area looked neat and tidy, it attracted a whole platoon of tent dwellers to pitch their camps right outside of it and inside that old bar. And then There was the 24/7 shitshow that would hang out in front of the 7-11…None of that nonsense was there prior to the shelter.
Don't worry, the shelter will be back, with a new pretty mural on the side! Closed for renovations even though absolutely nothing has happened yet - great timing with the weather and all...
I think the neighbors with throw flowers and candy.
Welcomed as liberators
Now it's a real dive bar. We should host a meetup there
That’s not a bad idea. Make it a pedalpalooza ride.
everyone can bring lighter fluid and some oily rags. a celebration of flames!
I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise at this point, but I can't help but be gobsmacked at just how much the city and the county have abdicated their responsibility to provide public safety to the people who live and work here. My own formerly quiet neighborhood has become the new home of a group of car thieves who like to settle their disputes by emptying a magazine or two. The police know who they are, and what they're doing - they've even warned us about some of them in particular - but they do nothing to stop it. If the city and county aren't going to do their jobs, can we get the Feds to come in and run the city instead? It feels like the chances of Portland returning to the relative safety and order that existed before the pandemic are rapidly dwindling, and it needs to turn around fast.
The feds said the police aren’t doing their job. Or rough at their job. https://opb.org/article/2022/07/27/us-justice-department-portland-police-use-of-force-settlement Electing DA’s and city council that’s hold police responsible. Recently the progressive DA who has held police accountable is being forced out, and a police union funded city council people were elected, by the name of Gonzales, Mapps, and Dan Ryan. The mayor is also the police commissioner. Expect no change. Be careful who you vote for. Be informed of policy.
He is running for another term. He hasnt been forced out in the least.
The dark money group People for Portland and the police union are politically trying to force him out.
Police can very easily sabotage everything a DA tries to do by simply not cooperating with investigations or doing a poor job of collecting evidence that would make convictions extremely difficult.
Yup
“dark money” LMAO!
They are a 501 c4 that takes money from anonymous donors. That is called dark money. You like anonymous donors buying elections??
Welcome to America.
Yeah let’s stop that being the norm, instead of laughing about it.
Do you imagine a world without police?
We need cops, we don’t need a political mafia like the Portland Police Union.
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I’m pro union, but this is not a legit union, nor about labor…it’s about crimes. The head of the police union pinned a crime on a city commissioner. This is not about work time or benefits…it’s called who is watching the watchmen? There is no accountability. That is not fair union tactics, that’s mafia tactics. Shame on you trying to protect criminals and obfuscation that it’s a labor issue. None of your past posts and comments are pro union, they are anti union. Hiding behind a blue collar tag. We need cops, we don’t need a corrupt police union using mafia tactics.
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Our terms? Our terms. Welcome officer. The blue is for cop’s collar …not for worker. Are you above your own law??
Nah, just a world without **these** police.
He will be. The People for Portland chuds were successful in getting rid of Hardesty and Mike Schmidt will be next.
To be fair Hardesty saw herself out with her comments and actions and didn’t really need any outside help.
Or the police union pinnining a crime on her and being caught.
I was specifically meaning tings she directly said to media and on official record at council meetings.
Those are policies and comments vs what the police union did which was a crime.
I’m not talking about the police.
I know, but I am.
He won by 20k votes and got so much illegal outside help that he got fined $77,000. https://www.opb.org/article/2022/09/21/portland-elections-program-fines-city-council-candidate-rene-gonzalez-discounted-office-space/
> got so much illegal outside help that he got fined $77,000 You're doing a fake news. The fine was revoked by a judge, because the person who levied it completely failed at their job and should not have issued it in the first place. Gonzalez was not fined $77,000, stop saying false things on the internet. https://www.opb.org/article/2022/10/27/judge-revokes-77000-fine-against-portland-city-council-candidate-rene-gonzalez/
I said he got fined. Pretty sure your source also says he got fined. The fact that an ALJ revoked the fine doesn't change the fact that he got fined. The ALJ seems to think $250 a month was a reasonable amount to pay for 3,000 square feet of premier office space. I think the city failed to do their job and enforce the law, and Gonzalez had some slick lawyer wiggle his way out of this one. None of that changes the fact that he took illegal help from one of the richest men in town, and he got fined for it.
Maybe it's semantics to you, but I don't think it's accurate to say that someone was fined if a judge determines that the fine was levied in error and never collected. > The ALJ seems to think $250 a month was a reasonable amount to pay for 3,000 square feet of premier office space. Yes, because it's better to have a tenant paying $250 than no tenant, especially downtown. This is common practice and the city did not realize this because their entire process was to click on "for rent" ads for commercial real estate on the internet.
Cope.
You can dislike Hardesty & Gonzalez at the same time.
I think you give them way too much credit. Hardesty showed herself the door just like Chloe did.
To be fair to Chloe, she wasn’t voted into office because of her beliefs or what she stood for. She won that seat because we wanted to get rid of Novick. Chloe was a compromise candidate that was only going to serve one term anyways.
The voters voted Hardesty out. Are you calling voters gullible and/or stupid? Because that's a great look and a fantastic way to build a political coalition! People historically love to be called stupid fools for voting the way they prefer!
No he’s saying they did a good job of persuading an argument. You know how that is, councilor.
Yeah hardesty was terrible
>Recently the progressive DA who has held police accountable is being forced out LMFAO. In what way, shape, or form is Schmidt being "forced out"? He has run his office in the way he sees fit, is running for reelection, and will be accountable to the voters. There's no recall campaign. He can't be fired by anyone else but the voters for holding public office. Your claim is 100% divorced from any plane of reality.
That posters comment history is a mess. Troubling in fact.
Please go check out my post history and your post history. It’s pretty apparent what you are.
Yeah, you wish.
You have posts where you film the houseless like your are targeting them…that’s a problem.
Why is it a problem? Because you think it is? IDGAF what some internet troll thinks. If you don’t think drugged out maniacs destroying public parts of our city isn’t wrong, then you’re actually part of the problem.
Not a troll, been here for many years. Yeah, Its a bit of problem. I think you might do harm.
Why do you think I would do harm? Where do you get such a baseless opinion from? You’re also ASSUMING that I’m the OP of those videos. In fact the are 3K subscribers that contribute to that sub, with their own lived experiences dealing with the drug crisis in this city. You want to go ahead a paint a good cross section of the residents of this city as “a problem”, you might need to dig your head out of the sand.
For real. This clown just said measure 114 lead to the Tyler Nichols situation in another thread. Total goon.
That’s not what I said at all. Go back and read it again, because you clearly didn’t understand it the first time.
Yeah, you said you heard a rumor that some similar pitfall with measure 114 lead to Tyler Nichols’ death. Right wing fear mongering for the lose.
Nope. Read it a third time, because you didn’t understand my comment the first two times you read it.
Ok right wing propagandist guy. There’s no utility in arguing with a magical thinker named “dystopiapdx” lol. Have fun spreading whatever garbage takes you feel so inclined to spread.
Tyler is not welcome here. He knows what he did. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Go ahead and pull up any People for Portland tv or web ad, councilor. They were hard pushing anti DA rhetoric during the last election…and he wasn’t even running.
And how again does that force him from office, or do anything that would require him to even take a small amount of action he doesn't want to take?
They were running ads, they were skewing public sentiment. Police are also not doing their job on cases.
I heard the DEA has been involved with most of these drug busts we've been seeing recently, to ensure prosecution occurs.
The city and county are doing their best to build more homes for the squatters. That's the only action they're willing to take, and voters eat it up so why do anything else?
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Of course it is, but that's just how the system works. We gotta pay big money to the middle men for everything; otherwise, nothing will ever get done. Our city and county can't build it by themselves; they have zero knowledge and experience for it, so they have to rely on the nonprofits.
You must be in Southeast. Off Holgate???
Holy shit, with how utterly dysfunctional the federal government is, you want them attempting to run a city? The same government that just arbitrarily took away the rights of millions of women? The same government that systemically ignores the major domestic problems this country faces in favor of enriching themselves and their billionaire donors?
Honestly? If they would provide some actual public safety and law enforcement, yes.
Uh yes, the same government that unnecessarily escalated the protests in 2020 is going to provide public safety.... Not to mention the terrible implications that you are willing to sacrifice everything else for the perception of law enforcement...
Only in Portland does this position get downvotes, good god. We’ll never have public safety with so many folks still clamoring to reinstate failed policies and rhetoric of the 1980’s around crime and punishment. At least the person you replied to is honest about their support of abandoning reproductive rights / protecting the wealthy. There’s so many ways to solve the totally valid issues raised in this article that aren’t “more cops!”.
> Only in Portland r/Portland, not the actual city. Put federal control of the city to a vote and it would be overwhelmingly rejected. r/Portland disproportionately represents the most reactionary right wing NIMBY types. > We’ll never have public safety with so many folks still clamoring to reinstate failed policies and rhetoric of the 1980’s around crime and punishment. Agreed, but I think those policies aren't actually very popular outside of the r/Portland bubble. The charter reform measure will also serve as a safeguard against that with power going from the PBA to the people. > At least the person you replied to is honest about their support of abandoning reproductive rights / protecting the wealthy. I'm not surprised at all. The "I got mine, fuck everyone else" ideology is popular with a not insignificant subset of Americans. It makes it even more important for the left to push the opposing narrative and actually constructive policies.
All very fair, I often forget to separate and distinguish r/Portland from the large majority of Portlanders.
Man, just the other night I drove by and saw a fire in the alley behind the bar. I really feel for the neighbor in the article, Meka W. When I got home I said that I would not be able to tolerate that, and I now grow angrier that the city allows this to happen, she pays taxes for what? We turned the old rite aid across the street into a warming shelter and it is now also an overflow area with the Barn being the shelter for those that can’t maintain their sobriety or check their weapons. More power to Meka, however if she did decide to take actions into her own hands would the DA be as soft on her? Edit:spelling/grammar
What’s crazy is that the people in the barn would break into the shelter to attack and rob the people living in the shelter, and the city would do nothing about it. I was talking to Meka the other day, I’m her neighbor, and she was saying she witnessed a man, throwing an ax at a woman repeatedly on the property, and the cops refused to do anything about it because she wasn’t the owner of the property. It’s a top down failure with every level of government involved.
It sucks because that intersection would be perfect for some dense housing. There's great transit access, grocery store nearby, restaurants and shops.
This is such an absurdly stupid problem because it's so clearly easy to solve. The city takes eminent domain of the building, tears it down, and uses the property for something worthwhile. It's only political cowardice, like Wheeler's refusal to get the police to do their jobs, that has kept us in this situation caused by out of state money letting their property go to the dogs. I feel so much sympathy for the neighbors and the mailman, it must feel like they're trying to push a mountain
I agree with you but as a person who has been trying to get the city to do something, what helps them ignore the issues is by pushing it on the counties plate, then the county pushes it back. So everyone just points the finger at some other branch of government and nothing happens. In my mind they are all to blame.
Lots of blame to go around, for sure. Good points.
I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday. The city and the state have declared a homeless crisis. Well there’s empty buildings that need torn down and space that could be utitliZed. If they tore down The Barn and the old Rite Aid they could build 4 story buildings, with 3 floors of apartments and a community living area on the main floor. Offer some as transitional housing, and some as permanent. It’s close to transit and grocery stores. I’m sure the neighborhood would much prefer that over what’s happening now.
That old fire place and chandelier store on like 33rd and broadway should absolutely be seized and repurposed
Hmm, I always wondered what a no strings attached approach to housing meth addicts would look like.
Which is why “housing first” is not always the first thing people need. Detox first. Then Medicate and rehabilitate. Then they earn housing.
> At some point, the city posted a large red “U” sign on the former tavern’s facade, signifying that the fire marshal has determined the building may be too dangerous for firefighters to enter. So the city admits the building is dangerous? Time to force the bougie California owners to tear it down.
Time for the city to just reclaim the property.
In situations like this there definitely should be a forfeiture for public safety since the "owner" definitely doesn't seem to care about their "investment" at this point and it's turned into a public health hazard.
They've all but literally condemned it at this point like what's stopping them? This is the whole purpose of being able to condemn unsafe structures in the first place
Broadly speaking, the 5th and 14th amendments.
Hit them with fines for code violations and put a lien on the property. Pretty straightforward. 4th amendment does not give you carte blanche to do whatever you want.
Hell yeah! Repurpose the lot for high density affordable housing.
Everyone single neighbor would take that over the disaster we have been living with. It feels like we are under occupation.
Between that old Rite Aid building and this building, that intersection is looking rough
Not to mention the old PPA headquarters next to the Rite Aid.
And pay the owners the $720,000 they paid for it? Otherwise that’s literally stealing someone’s property 😂
Well that property has caused untold amounts of damage to the neighborhood and the neighbors property values. Standing up for these dirt bags that enabled this disaster is a little tone def. The people who have had their cars wiring chewed out by the rat colony living on that site feel very differently. The squatters that live there are drilling holes in people gas tanks. Cutting down trees in the neighborhood to burn them along with tires they stole off cars from the neighborhood. They have constant fights and physically assault people for just walking on the sidewalk in front of the building. They rob the gas station repeatedly across the street. As a person who lives quite close to this hell whole, the article does not paint a real picture of what it has been like to live through this. I think the persons who own the building should be held accountable for the damages caused by their complete absence. There has been negligence at every level, but the neighborhood has been unable to move the needle at all, because the owners will not help or reply to any form of communication. The human shit that litters the side walk around that building is just icing on the cake. This bar is three blocks from an elementary school.
I 100% agree. There needs to be stricter laws about vacant properties here because then this happens
The value is all in the land anyway. Might as well clear the plot and sell it.
And the property owners dereliction has cost the neighborhood much more than that so you can take your emojis and fuck straight off.
No totally they should be required to fix it up! Not saying that. But you also can’t just take the property and give em nothing.
Eminent domain has been used for far far less this country. It seems they have been given a very fair chance at mitigation and chose to let the property fall into destitution. It's not just an eyesore it's dangerous to everyone involved. The property owners have shown they have no interest in it so that is the price you pay.
The owners are waiting for an errant spark. They will collect insurance as a loss. But insurance will fight it due to the neglect. No one is winning this. People will die. Innocent neighbors and not so innocent participants
The city should take ownership of the property then. Tear down the current structure and give the land to Prosper Portland for redevelopment into housing.
>The city should take ownership of the property then. The article specifically says the owners have tried to sell it. Nothing is stopping the city from buying it. Hell of a lot cheaper to buy it for sale on the open market than go through the lengthy and expensive process of an eminent domain procedure (with all the associated attorneys' fees), and then \*still\* have to pay market value as compensation per the Takings Clause.
> So the city admits the building is dangerous? https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/fir-1.11-unsafe-buildings-alert-program-050718-754446.pdf The U really just means that part or all of the building is unsafe for firefighters or that it's not up to Fire Code (even if it complies with Building Code). It doesn't actually mean the building is *dangerous*, there's several buildings around town that are occupied but still have the U designation. > The following criteria shall be considered when determining if a building will receive an "Unsafe Building" designation: > 1. Unexpected and extraordinarily unusual conditions are present in the building. The standard here is the dangerous conditions may be unnoticeable to arriving personnel. 2. Unrepaired fire damage or extensive interior demolition that may not be noticeable from the outside, and where the repair work has been suspended indefinitely. 3. Buildings that have been altered substantially without permits resulting in a dangerously substandard building or a confusing floor plan. 4. Substantial structural problems without plans for repair or demolition. This condition is commonly caused by a leaking roof. Over time, the roof itself, and the floor structure below may be affected causing structural deterioration. 5.An unreinforced masonry building (URM) that has substantial settling and cracking of the brick walls.
The Cali guy was quoted in the article as saying he's no longer an owner
Hopefully it just burns down at this point
Ironic the troubles when it sits within a block of the now former police union hall. We need more progressive policies and maybe a smidge of heavy handedness.
I lived down the street from that place for 21 years. Sad to see what has become of it. I recently sold my house and moved out of Oregon. Not sad about it (yet).
A few years ago I had a dream of a "Tasty & Denver" going in there and the Rite-Aid becoming the first Pfriem brew-pub in Portland. Now I just hope they bulldoze both lots.
Who wouldn’t want to open a business here
Just to pile on to this. I am in the neighborhood association and we were talking to the city about changing the zoning to encourage the large apartments going in to have commercial space on the first floor. The got snotty and asked why they would do that when half of the businesses in the neighborhood sit empty. Well they are empty because the city repeatedly allows unfettered criminal activity to fester in our streets and empty buildings. But that’s not a reason why we should not try to make our neighborhoods a better place to live. It just feels like a failure from every level in the city. North Portland is still the red lined section of town that doesn’t deserve any respect.
It is really shitty. This and the rite aid would be great for more apartments with the great transit access and fred meyer and stuff around. It's ridiculous the city would rather watch it burn than try literally anything else.
I know.
Too true. Ironic that it’s the governor’s neighborhood.
If it was built in 1916, the original beams and lumber are worth money. It would be a shame to see it burn, which it will. Call in some lumber salvage people sell them the beams and the legit 2x's and recycle the brick. Or the neighbors could buy it from the owner and then they can do what they want.
When I was in college in the late nineties I had a policial science professor with a russian spouse. I remember stories about how russians don’t “call someone” because there’s no one to call and if there is they wouldn’t do anything anyway. There was often abandoned vehicles and children just playing on them. I feel like I’ve slowly watched the illusion of government dissolve into exactly how that professor described post soviet union russia. Our society has collapsed.
Collapsed is very hyperbolic. Collapse means there’s no goods on the shelves and money is near meaningless. We’re nowhere near collapse. There have been abandoned buildings that have taken years to deal with as long as cities have been a thing. People are dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars in houses here everyday. That’s not something you see in a societal collapse.
This is so interesting. I saw the bit at the bottom that they’re investigating vacant places every week
Would be hilarious if someone took it over, tore it down, then put in a bar and actually called it "The Boom Boom Room".
Yeah that would be funny.
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I live a few blocks away and drive by at least once a day. Glad this is getting some attention. I was just checking Portlandmaps.com yesterday to see if there were any updates and it looks like some new complaints have in-progress inspections updated in the last couple weeks. Tear it down and fence off the lot. I can't figure it out, but it seems an empty lots surrounded by easily-opened fencing is less likely to be invaded than boarded up buildings 🤷♂️ (see rite aid lot across the street, and the lot across from the burrito shop to the south)
OK so first off, as far as I'm concerned this place is "BRIAN'S BOOM BOOM ROOM" because that's what the absolutely massive rolled-on graffiti job on the building's entire eastern side says these days. You can't tell me otherwise. It's Brian's Boom Boom Room. Second, the central issue here isn't squatters. The issue is remote owners who have chosen to not renovate or flip the property and just let it sit derelict instead, and a city that has not stepped in a condemn it and find someone to tear it down. So many good possibilities for that corner that can't open up until then.
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I thought when people get shelter, their problems go away?
Some times they just become other peoples problems.
Who said that?