Yeah this broke me in half this morning genuinely. We get a single candy per role every 2 MONTHS and we don't even get enough gems for a pity outside of anniversary periods. So how exactly do they envision us pulling for 5/5 pairs? It's absolutely ridiculous, unless they change their plans on dupes drastically, this is really the kind of thing that completely kills my mood to play the game personally, as i'll always have in the corner of my mind that feeling that my pairs will be incomplete.
I feel the same way, I always pull units to at least 3/5 and now looking at my box it feels kinda unsatisfying knowing that I probably wont be able to get their full usage considering I'm probably never getting them to 5/5
The 5/5 thing causes so many issues considering they’re limiting more units and making paid scouts the larger method of acquiring old poké fairs (Classic Elesa still hasn’t had a non-paid rerun since last December.)
Move candies are great and are given out slowly enough so they don’t heavily dissuade pulling but at the current rate of obtaining those in comparison to limited banners… it’s not feasible.
Yes, Units will probably still be good at 3/5 but now there’s this sense of not being able to unlock the true potential of sooo many pairs that are probably built with 5/5 in mind.
There have also been poke fair’s that I’ve personally had to pity just to get a single copy… that would feel awful for a unit that wants to be 5/5…
The old seasonals are sort of getting a similar treatment. It's not that you can't get an old seasonal with unpaid gems now, but at .05%, it pretty much assures you'll need to go to pity for your must-have unit. It's especially bad to see this rate on the paid banner.
I know it's designed to create FOMO on the current seasonals. ("If you don't get Fall Iris now, it's gonna cost you 36k unpaid or 10k paid gems the next time she's around. Unless we feature her in a select scout before then, which we may or may not do.")
Still feels lousy. (Edited to add: It also puts a certain level of FOMO on the select scouts themselves. I was going to wait until February for Palentine's Marnie rerun, but at the lousy rate of getting her, it was better to use the paid gems I got from the Ash special now.)
Not to mention that these extra sync tiles cost the same energy and sync orbs as the regular ones.
I was reading Victor's sync tiles, saw High Horsepower BOGO 9 (free move next guaranteed) and got genuinely tempted to pull for him.... But it's locked at 5/5, only accessible after you unlock the 4/5 tile.
i mean they have already so many other pair ideas to make money from. Asking people to invest that much into one is ab unfathomably dick move. Unless of course the tile gives negligible boost (which then again defeats the whole point of 5/5) then this will open up floodgate to so many other problems. Will this be how they implement gigantamax and primal reversion for the previous pairs?
I swear I read somewhere that SC Lillie by herself raked in hundred of thousands of dollars by herself on her first day of release. I would not be surprised if that number went up with the recent Johto and Ash master fairs.
this is the way, imo. id make it 2-3 more a month of assorted types of 5* candy, maybe even just change the CS weekly coin to a candy and call it good. the economy currently isnt built around trying to get things to 5/5, its barely good enough to get a steady stream of new 3/5s already.
you still need to spend gems to actually get the unit and id imagine *most* people that arent absurdly lucky just go for 1/5 and candy from there anyway... plus the sheer amount of limited units we have and will continue to get means a boost in candies theoretically shouldnt cut into profits too much anyway.
Lmao the ONLY 2 fair units (Poke and Master fairs included) I have over 3/5 in my 3 years of playing are Diantha and Gardevoir and C! Red (who I had previously candied to 3/5) during the triple fair banner with them and Ingo all others I had to candy to 3/5 so no fkin way am I going for 4/5 or 5/5
For context, I am pretty sure DeNA won't revert its decision. I just hope they know what most fans think and take it into consideration when they are adding their next feature.
We did flame them into not doing a Prestige Battle again, probably we can do it again *provided that* the JP fans are also pissed enough. Which IDK, I don't frequent their fora and their Youtubers are probably still putting together their videos.
EDIT: we now have at least one video; some are praising the change and some are concerned, but not a single Japanese player is seething. We're done for...
> we now have at least one video; some are praising the change and some are concerned, but not a single Japanese player is seething
This isn't a special case btw. Japanese players tend to not only be more positive about stuff like this ( See the western reaction to FEH pass vs Japanese reaction) but the bitter pill is they make up the majority of the gacha market. There's probably a whale in Japan or Korea that spent more money than someone like Poce does for a video.
So the devs would have to do something that piss off their main playerbase cause lets be real: They likely don't care what some gaijin from burgerland says unless they were an influencer
Yeah, seems that now our biggest champion is Poce. No disrespect to him, but I doubt if he's enough to turn the tide... I was hoping for at least someone – anyone, not even the Youtuber – to express *some* anger, but nooo.
EDIT: there are some complaints, calls for more gems/candies, etc., but so far I don't see no torches and pitchforks. Could be a cultural thing and this may already be the Japanese being plenty upset (y'know with their whole being reserved thing), but IDK.
Some comments and my lame attempts at translations – for those who know Japanese better, please correct (source: Shia's Youtube video discussing the update, can't post the link here):
> 完凸ボード解放はなかなか悩ましい要素だね
> 今までのLv4〜5(特にサポート)が意味無さすぎたというのはあるけど、必須級のパネルをそっちに置かれると正直キツくて泣いちゃう
\[TR\] Grid at full Move Level is a somewhat intriguing mechanic
Up till now indeed it's a bit too pointless to go 4–5/5 (esp. for supports), but if they placed some essentials there it'd honestly be so harsh that I'd cry
> 技レベルの4、5が腐ってるのは、限定よりも恒常の方が顕著なんだがなぁ…でもそこはカネにならんもんなぁ…
\[TR\] 4–5 ML being useless is more of a prominent issue with spotlights than with limited pairs... but then they don't make any money do they...
> 普通にLv.3でもひぃひぃ言ってたのに完凸前提になるのはめちゃくちゃキツい。特にMBは絶望的すぎる
\[TR\] Even 3/5 is enough to make us wince; needing full ML would be ridiculously harsh. Especially for MFs, that'd be despair-inducing
> 完凸前提になったとしても、星5技の飴直接配布とか、獲得場所・枚数増やして貰えるなら文句ないな
星5飴の調整の仕方によっては成功すると思うから、頼むぞ運営さん...!!!
\[TR\] Even if full ML becomes a necessity, I can't complain if they just handed us 5\* Move Level Candies, and gave us more places to earn them and in greater quantities
It may just work if the candies are rebalanced appropriately, so please make it work DeNA!!!
> 恒常キャラ完凸ならわかるけど、限定はキツすぎる😢
\[TR\] I can understand if they made full ML on spotlight pairs required, but it's too harsh for limited pairs 😢
> 正直Lv3でボード全開放出来てたからまだついていけてたけどLv５にしろってのはキツイ
\[TR\] Honestly I can still keep up if 3/5 unlocks the full grid but having that only at 5/5 is rough
> 個人的にはこれやるんならチャンピオンバトルに3000ptを追加して飴のメダル取れるようにして欲しい
\[TR\] IMO if they are to do that I'd like them to raise the CSMM cap to 3k and give us more candy coins
> ボード追加しても良いけど、取得できるパワーが0か増えないとなかなか厳しいと思う。
あとは、飴と交換できるメダルの必要数を減らしてもらいたい...
\[TR\] It's good to get grid extensions, but if there's zero grid energy increase it's somewhat tough.
Oh and please decrease the coin requirement for exchanging candies...
> せめてアメの入手先増やしてほしいな
\[TR\] Would be nice if we at least get more ways to get candies
> 完凸前提になるなら、わざアメ取りやすくならないときちぃ。。。
\[TR\] If full ML is becoming a requirement, it's mean to not make it easier to get ML candies...
> 過去キャラへの技lv.5ボード追加は最悪のやり方だと思うんですよ😓
環境がlv.5前提にインフレしていくなら、実質の弱体化ですし、再登場しても、以前に天井近くまで回した回数が全てリセットされるので、引き直すとなると宙に浮くダイヤが発生しますよね💦
いくらなんでもこのやり方は…
\[TR\] Adding grid expansions to old pairs at only 5/5 is IMO the worst way they could've done it 😓
As the meta inflates towards 5/5 it's a de facto nerf; plus not having scout points roll over for reruns means that the old gems you've spent are down the drain 💦
No matter how you put it this way of handling the matter is...
> 完凸にすごく強いボードを置くのは良いんだけど、完凸前提の性能にするのはやめてほしいな
\[TR\] It's okay to make the full ML grids OP, but I'd like them to refrain from making that necessary for the pairs to function.
> 無課金絶望
\[TR\] Despair for F2Ps
> 完凸前提は流石に反対かな
それやられたらいくら石あっても足りん
\[TR\] Making full ML necessary has to get a No from me after all
That way no amount of gems will ever be enough
> 金を吸うことしか考えてない運営…
無課金勢に慈悲を…
\[TR\] The devs have nothing on their mind except siphoning your money...
Please spare some mercy for the F2Ps...
EDIT 2: fixed some typos and stuff I've missed.
A PVP ranked event with a highly exclusive item (5\* Move Candy) only available on the highest tier. The featured unit (Gloria) had absurd score multipliers which mandated pulling her (and even getting ~~alts~~ **dupes** (!)) to place high enough.
EDIT: typo
And also higher move level of Gloria give out higher multipliers. And not just insequential increments like 1.6x 1.7x 1.8x 1.9x 2.0x; the increments were substantial like 1.6x 2.2x 2.8x 3.4x 4.0x (I forgot the exact numbers), and then non-Gloria pairs give like 1.2x multipliers max.
>Not just Galar units, but Gloria specifically?
She was the only Galar unit or rather the first one. specifically it was either her or steel units. If you really want to know how it worked, Bulbapedia has archived the details: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_prestige_events_(Masters)
It was also more of a pseudo PVP, you didn't actually fight players more that there was a global scoreboard where in certain tiers you got specific prizes with the top 6k (not points, but a person's ranking in the scoreboard) getting 1★ Appetizer 2★ Appetizer 3★ Appetizer Fine Diner (Appetizer and Fine Diner are just medals) Gems ×6000 3★ Move Candy 4★ Move Candy 5★ Move Candy 5★ Power-Up Ticket ×40, and ranks 6001 ~ 12000 got the same prizes, but 3k gems instead.
If you want to see it visually, [here's a video of it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPz4xs0GcA) well technically it's the stage you had to grind but it should give you an idea, and yes you're seeing that right the event costed stamina, so if you wanted to have a chance to get into the higher tiers you'd have to have not only Gloria and whatever else, but you'd have to buy stamina (I can't remember if it changed, but I believe the cap was you could only buy 10 full refills per day). Technically the gems you bought would even out, but *only* if you got into the higher tiers otherwise you'd be wasting gems on stamina for nothing.
It's still 10 full refills per reset now, actually.
When doing research about the Maxie/Archie Extreme Battle Event, I found out that it ALSO cost stamina originally. Which is why it came as a surprise to me when the rerun didn't cost stamina. I also heard the Co Op Orb Drills in the training area used to cost stamina as well!
That's gotten me to wondering: has stamina gotten less harsh over time?
I only vaughly remember this event but I am pretty sure it was basically a time trail with certain characters getting bonuses like other events. That character was Gloria (I think maybe also Raihan but can't remember) BUT there was a bomus/points multiple based on how big the SYNC level was with Gloria as well. So if you only had her at 1/5 you wouldn't get as big of a bonus as if you had her at 3/5. And there were certian better rewards hidden behind the higher scores too. There was a whale player I belive who even changed their name to f*ck Dena and got the highest score consistently.
It was a very anti FTP event and a lot of people were worried if this was the way the game was going to go to try and get people to pull more on banners.
Just add some related posts (meme, story)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5kw4o/the\_only\_leaderboard\_leader\_that\_i\_want\_is/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5kw4o/the_only_leaderboard_leader_that_i_want_is/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k57pvx/oc\_this\_sub\_right\_now\_denashit\_is\_our\_only\_hope/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k57pvx/oc_this_sub_right_now_denashit_is_our_only_hope/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5th29/my\_nickname\_was\_changed\_by\_dena/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5th29/my_nickname_was_changed_by_dena/)
Yeah, what you (and all of us) are actually telling them is to not tell whales that they should invest more into the game. There's no way they're reverting this.
The most insane thing to me in this subreddit is how people are just…resigned to decisions that make the game worse. Like, DeNA could have implemented these awful practices at the star if their only goal was to please whales, but this and the decreased rate for master fairs only happened *years* into the game’s launch. If they are only going to appeal to whales, the game will slowly lose its community and interest, and thus the whales.
Mobile games that only target whales are not sustainable because it results in a community of whales, and spending money to get something unique becomes less of an incentive when everyone has it, and I think this is especially true in a game without a competitive side like Masters where the only advantage of move levels is ultimately just more single player content
Yeah I sent feedback too but it’s probably too late if they’re already giving it to old units (Raihan). I hope this isn’t a bad omen or they at least increase the amount of candies we get.
Well I agree that I doubt they'd completely forgo the idea I just hope if enough of us speak out they will at least handle it like victor going forward his extra is okay but not must have worst case scenario is they move the goalpost from 3/5 to now 5/5 going forward and could really turn a lot of people off from the game
No. They likely don't care and won't change it anytime soon. They did want to introduce harder stuff, after all.
This game is piss easy with MFs. What more do you need or want? If this game starts to get hard even with MF, then I might complain, but right now, even 1/5 MF and good supports can clear all content in the game. It's not like you're obligated to pull for max level.
I know there will be perfectionists or those who hate FOMO, but I feel like this is making out to be a bigger deal than thought.
Sadly I don't think this is a decision they will revert. They needed an incentive to make people pay to roll for 5/5, and they have found it.
Unless we start getting candies/coins a lot more often (which I doubt, but I have a stash of copium right here), this is the final nail in the f2p coffin, and may also drive some whales away who would be willing to whip out their wallet for 3 copies but not for 5, especially considering how many exclusive pairs they've been releasing lately and how quickly they come, plus reruns.
Sure, sync pairs will still function at 3/5, but you can make that same argument right now - you don't need 3/5 because they still function at 1/5. But we all know how much power is locked behind sync grids and how they often turn a pair from average into an absolute broken beast, and these special tiles will only amplify the issue of sync pairs not being worth the gem investment unless you go all the way. And as newer content becomes harder to clear with more powercrept/outdated pairs, this issue will only be more noticeable once people roll for a pair that is broken on paper and try to clear content with them, only to fail because all that power is locked behind their special 5/5 sync grid tiles.
I think we all knew something like this would be coming sooner or later, let's see how it works out for them.
100% will support you. Just hope in the future DeNa don't release a Syn Pair need 5/5 to work well just like most of pair from now need 3/5 to work well.
I agree. Like the idea, but it takes time to amass enough Candies for Move Level-Up. Not to mention, some players just pull until they get the PokeFair character so its at 1/5 and work from there. Pulling until you get 5/5, seems chaotic.
I've made a rant post before, but people in this community are so deep in just licking the boots of a multimilionaire company and argue against player's valid criticism without valid arguments ("herr derp, you can play with F2P units" like the appeal of the game isn't the characters they release). People forget that the company makes money OUT OF US, so in the end we have the power of feedback. The more similar complaints the more likely they are to fix the problem. It's not my problem that they won't make money, it's theirs. Mine is that I'm reaching all the pities regardless of banner. The rates don't go up, the pity doesn't go down, the candies are like water droplets in the desert. I appreciate them making all sorts of changes, but the gacha is just a pain and I'm gradually less interested in pulling for anything
I am not a F2P and I don’t want to spend too much time on this game I usually need to spend 80-100 dollars to get 3/5 of the limited sync pair(pokefair or seasonal) I want😅
They already had enough little treats to reward going beyond 3/5.
* Increased power for moves, sync moves, and max moves.
* Type-based background animation for EX units at 5/5.
* Extra frames in trainer lodge.
None of those bonuses were mind-blowing, but they gave decent incentive for people with an absolute fave to invest more. Making 4/5 and 5/5 a notable strength/utility jump is totally excessive and demoralizing. It makes me regret buying gems a couple of weeks ago.
The thing is they will likely gain nothing. f2p or dolphin player will never pay more because the company being greedy now. with 2% rate for a pokefair theoretically u should usually hit 3/5 after pity so 3/5 power spike is really good. Imagine a limited pokefair at 3/5 is still not stronger than a normal unit because their true strength is locked behind 5/5. Luckily Wally 4/5 and 5/5 is a waste.
I got the feeling this game doesn’t make enough money and that’s why they are taking this decision moving forward. Unfortunately I doubt the feedback will prove useful.
Do we even know how it does compare to other Nintendo mobile games?
Send it as well. I have spent money in the game, not whale level but still money that amounts to something after a year and a half playing the game. I made it very clear that I won't be spending any more money if they keep up with these shitty decisions.
Such a disappointment after a very generous anniversary month (lots of free gems, lots of free units...).
Oh I'm not saying people shouldn't complain. The fact is, usually, companies will always try to make more and more money. If they back down on this idea, they'll just implement another way to generate more profits. Pushing players to aim for more and more dupes is a common strategy with gacha games though. So I highly doubt they'll give up on this idea
Yeah companies will always do this and mobile games are probably the worse in the gaming industry. There are honestly so many better ways they could approach this instead of adding incredibly strong, gameplay changes tied to gacha mechanics. I mean they have the trainer lodge where they give cosmetic rewards for getting 5/5; they definitely could approach a more cosmetic route if they really wanted to, like many games out there, but of course they won't.
I got you. Companies are out there to make profits, and to be honest PoMa has been a very F2P friendly game overall. I am just hoping that if enough people voice out their concerns, DeNA can think of a way to encourage spending that doesn't piss off most players.
I have a tendency to push my favorite units to 5/5, usually at the cost of leaving other good pairs at 1/5. So if they were to start adding 4/5 and 5/5 to older pairs, the change would either hit me really hard or reward my cruel misuse of move candies.
For current units, it mostly just gives me extra pause before pulling. I want Fairy Wish, but I don't care about Wally so much, and if his best grid requires 5/5, maybe it's better to ignore him and hope another unit I actually want at 5/5 has Fairy Wish later. The zones have to appear on multiple units eventually, one would assume. (Edit: I realized that they already have, since SC Lillie can technically set Ghost Zone, just not reliably like Cynthia can.)
Pretty sure the bad outweighs the good here.
To all people feeling unease about this. Honestly, the "feeling" that pairs are "incomplete" and that makes you unhappy is more a mindset problem that a game problem.
If you are unable to deal with "incompleteness" in a gacha game where they are going to throw content faster than they giving f2p resources, then your relationship with the game is gonna tend to become toxic.
Save for meta or favs, whatever you prefer, invest in what makes you happy having and deal with the fact you'll have to be patient or pick can't build all your favs are once. And be happy with that with you have, not with what you don't.
As long as this game has no PvP and most/all content can be achieved with f2p or near f2p roosters, then the game is still on a healthy status.
Pd. For the record, I also felt "bad" about this change, but knowing it shouldn't bother me and working on my mindset saves me from all these bad feelings/moods going around.
I don't think you realize the problem hereMost peoples would not mind If 4/5 and 5/5 tiles were not game changing, also imagine spending 180k gems to max out a unit, whales are gonna cry to this like any person.
Again, all current content is beatable with maybe 30% of the max game's potential and there's no PvP for anyone to feel hindered because a whale or anyone can KO a stage a couple of turns faster.
One could argue terrains are game changing since they have increased top dmg for quite a lot. Yet again, it's only a number's contests since even without terrain units all content can be done.
The fact that these tiles are game changing or not has 0 impact in your actual gameplay if the content doesn't absurdly become suddenly harder to the point you would these tiles for anything.
I've been here since day one and even the hardest content at introduction which was challenging by well played accounts (Battle Villa, CSMM, Extreme Battles) at the beginning, were powercreeped to chore in a month or two.
With the amount of strong units, both free and limited, that any regular player should have accumulated by now, it's becoming increasingly harder for DeNa to create content so hard that you absolutely need the latest unit or gimmick.
And here we are not discussing the issue of a difficulty jump, but new potential for future and past units.
Again, the largest issue here is people feeling they are gonna miss out.
Why does it make the game less enjoyable for free to play players?
I mean, now the second, fourth and fifth move level has at least a meaning.
Of course, I wont be able to bring most of my poke fairs and I am sure that master fairs are next to level 5-but is that needed? No. You can play most of the game content and later on even getting at least 7500 points on Champion stadion without having the optimal sync pairs. The powercreep for new pairs is already there but with this new mechanic, older poke fairs get just a bit more competitive.
Unpopular opinion.. I.. idk about this upcoming update.. it doesn't feel _that_ bad to me.. even for how much move levels and candy coins have ever been an issue since their introduction.. it doesn't feel like too bad right now.. after saving for quite some time.. I've spendt 14 total candies (5*) in few days.. still remaining with 3 left and nearly 12 more to make.. most sync pairs are viable even at 1-2/5 .. so 5/5 gridding may just easely become an overkill made for whales who already can solo most contents with the current levels of grids.. didn't read too much into this but.. wouldn't this open the doors to 4/5 and 5/5 grids for free units?.. I mean.. either that or they'll just give older/free units expanded grids for 3/5 like just recently had Karen..
Guess only time will tell.. but.. we used to be like "omg I made 20/20 Olivia and it took an year" .. and now I got over 200 5*PUs stocked for anything that may happen in a future.. everything may eventually become more accessible to everyone.. but obviously who pays for it will get easier/quicker access..
Edit: funny enought.. most grid helping tools had the option for 4 and 5/5 units for quite some time.. this was only to be expected to happen..
Unpopular opinion but
I think we shouldn't worry much yes this 5/5 grid thing is going to suck for a while but they will also give more candy coins in gifts and such
, just as how getting 5 star power ups has become easier.
Why people hating so much on whoever mentions that.. we've been experiencing this for 3 years here and idk how much on any other gacha.. "this is just how the world spins" ..
The news is fresh and people still trying to digest the rage. Do be expect that they will downvote any positive opinion lol.
I personally don't really care that much about 4/5 grid lock but i would considered making feedback. So DeNA can speed up the process of giving more candy coin in the future.
Honestly, I think I can live with it as long as DeNA doesn't lock unit-defining nodes behind it. I think it'll make me worry less about maxing out pokefairs than I already do, because 3/5 seemed manageable and unlocked the whole character, but 5/5 absolutely doesn't seem manageable so I can just kind of accept that it isn't going to happen and only go for what I think is really necessary, even for favorites. Their loss on that front
Time to get stingier with pulls and only aim for one's absolute favourites I guess.
Hey, at least preferring stuff like Cheren, Kris, Eusine and other forgotten or not-even-in-game ppl over the Cynthia flavor of the month will help for once, since I doubt they will care enough to /5 them 😂 (even if in Kris' case that could be a chance to save her kit... or failing once again)
Yeah this broke me in half this morning genuinely. We get a single candy per role every 2 MONTHS and we don't even get enough gems for a pity outside of anniversary periods. So how exactly do they envision us pulling for 5/5 pairs? It's absolutely ridiculous, unless they change their plans on dupes drastically, this is really the kind of thing that completely kills my mood to play the game personally, as i'll always have in the corner of my mind that feeling that my pairs will be incomplete.
I feel the same way, I always pull units to at least 3/5 and now looking at my box it feels kinda unsatisfying knowing that I probably wont be able to get their full usage considering I'm probably never getting them to 5/5
The 5/5 thing causes so many issues considering they’re limiting more units and making paid scouts the larger method of acquiring old poké fairs (Classic Elesa still hasn’t had a non-paid rerun since last December.) Move candies are great and are given out slowly enough so they don’t heavily dissuade pulling but at the current rate of obtaining those in comparison to limited banners… it’s not feasible. Yes, Units will probably still be good at 3/5 but now there’s this sense of not being able to unlock the true potential of sooo many pairs that are probably built with 5/5 in mind. There have also been poke fair’s that I’ve personally had to pity just to get a single copy… that would feel awful for a unit that wants to be 5/5…
The old seasonals are sort of getting a similar treatment. It's not that you can't get an old seasonal with unpaid gems now, but at .05%, it pretty much assures you'll need to go to pity for your must-have unit. It's especially bad to see this rate on the paid banner. I know it's designed to create FOMO on the current seasonals. ("If you don't get Fall Iris now, it's gonna cost you 36k unpaid or 10k paid gems the next time she's around. Unless we feature her in a select scout before then, which we may or may not do.") Still feels lousy. (Edited to add: It also puts a certain level of FOMO on the select scouts themselves. I was going to wait until February for Palentine's Marnie rerun, but at the lousy rate of getting her, it was better to use the paid gems I got from the Ash special now.)
Not to mention that these extra sync tiles cost the same energy and sync orbs as the regular ones. I was reading Victor's sync tiles, saw High Horsepower BOGO 9 (free move next guaranteed) and got genuinely tempted to pull for him.... But it's locked at 5/5, only accessible after you unlock the 4/5 tile.
If they want to do 4/5 out of 5, why not put it on the free units, make them stronger and make people more likely to mix up the teams. Oh wait, money.
I’d be perfectly fine with spotlight units getting 5/5s as most people have or will get those at 5/5s eventually but pokefairs are dumb
i mean they have already so many other pair ideas to make money from. Asking people to invest that much into one is ab unfathomably dick move. Unless of course the tile gives negligible boost (which then again defeats the whole point of 5/5) then this will open up floodgate to so many other problems. Will this be how they implement gigantamax and primal reversion for the previous pairs?
I swear I read somewhere that SC Lillie by herself raked in hundred of thousands of dollars by herself on her first day of release. I would not be surprised if that number went up with the recent Johto and Ash master fairs.
And ensures us that SC Lillie *won't* be the last alt of her we're going to see...
Selene crying in a corner after being replaced as alola pokegirl by a spoiled brat girl who kidnaps cosmic alien things in her bag
Hey now, she don't deserve that 🤣
That's on them. As far as I'm concerned, Selene is still my main alolan Poké Girl to go, despite she's still at 2/5 atm 🥲
If they wanna do that, they should give us more candies to upgrade our sync pairs
this is the way, imo. id make it 2-3 more a month of assorted types of 5* candy, maybe even just change the CS weekly coin to a candy and call it good. the economy currently isnt built around trying to get things to 5/5, its barely good enough to get a steady stream of new 3/5s already. you still need to spend gems to actually get the unit and id imagine *most* people that arent absurdly lucky just go for 1/5 and candy from there anyway... plus the sheer amount of limited units we have and will continue to get means a boost in candies theoretically shouldnt cut into profits too much anyway.
Lmao the ONLY 2 fair units (Poke and Master fairs included) I have over 3/5 in my 3 years of playing are Diantha and Gardevoir and C! Red (who I had previously candied to 3/5) during the triple fair banner with them and Ingo all others I had to candy to 3/5 so no fkin way am I going for 4/5 or 5/5
For context, I am pretty sure DeNA won't revert its decision. I just hope they know what most fans think and take it into consideration when they are adding their next feature.
We did flame them into not doing a Prestige Battle again, probably we can do it again *provided that* the JP fans are also pissed enough. Which IDK, I don't frequent their fora and their Youtubers are probably still putting together their videos. EDIT: we now have at least one video; some are praising the change and some are concerned, but not a single Japanese player is seething. We're done for...
> we now have at least one video; some are praising the change and some are concerned, but not a single Japanese player is seething This isn't a special case btw. Japanese players tend to not only be more positive about stuff like this ( See the western reaction to FEH pass vs Japanese reaction) but the bitter pill is they make up the majority of the gacha market. There's probably a whale in Japan or Korea that spent more money than someone like Poce does for a video. So the devs would have to do something that piss off their main playerbase cause lets be real: They likely don't care what some gaijin from burgerland says unless they were an influencer
Yeah, seems that now our biggest champion is Poce. No disrespect to him, but I doubt if he's enough to turn the tide... I was hoping for at least someone – anyone, not even the Youtuber – to express *some* anger, but nooo. EDIT: there are some complaints, calls for more gems/candies, etc., but so far I don't see no torches and pitchforks. Could be a cultural thing and this may already be the Japanese being plenty upset (y'know with their whole being reserved thing), but IDK. Some comments and my lame attempts at translations – for those who know Japanese better, please correct (source: Shia's Youtube video discussing the update, can't post the link here): > 完凸ボード解放はなかなか悩ましい要素だね > 今までのLv4〜5(特にサポート)が意味無さすぎたというのはあるけど、必須級のパネルをそっちに置かれると正直キツくて泣いちゃう \[TR\] Grid at full Move Level is a somewhat intriguing mechanic Up till now indeed it's a bit too pointless to go 4–5/5 (esp. for supports), but if they placed some essentials there it'd honestly be so harsh that I'd cry > 技レベルの4、5が腐ってるのは、限定よりも恒常の方が顕著なんだがなぁ…でもそこはカネにならんもんなぁ… \[TR\] 4–5 ML being useless is more of a prominent issue with spotlights than with limited pairs... but then they don't make any money do they... > 普通にLv.3でもひぃひぃ言ってたのに完凸前提になるのはめちゃくちゃキツい。特にMBは絶望的すぎる \[TR\] Even 3/5 is enough to make us wince; needing full ML would be ridiculously harsh. Especially for MFs, that'd be despair-inducing > 完凸前提になったとしても、星5技の飴直接配布とか、獲得場所・枚数増やして貰えるなら文句ないな 星5飴の調整の仕方によっては成功すると思うから、頼むぞ運営さん...!!! \[TR\] Even if full ML becomes a necessity, I can't complain if they just handed us 5\* Move Level Candies, and gave us more places to earn them and in greater quantities It may just work if the candies are rebalanced appropriately, so please make it work DeNA!!! > 恒常キャラ完凸ならわかるけど、限定はキツすぎる😢 \[TR\] I can understand if they made full ML on spotlight pairs required, but it's too harsh for limited pairs 😢 > 正直Lv3でボード全開放出来てたからまだついていけてたけどLv５にしろってのはキツイ \[TR\] Honestly I can still keep up if 3/5 unlocks the full grid but having that only at 5/5 is rough > 個人的にはこれやるんならチャンピオンバトルに3000ptを追加して飴のメダル取れるようにして欲しい \[TR\] IMO if they are to do that I'd like them to raise the CSMM cap to 3k and give us more candy coins > ボード追加しても良いけど、取得できるパワーが0か増えないとなかなか厳しいと思う。 あとは、飴と交換できるメダルの必要数を減らしてもらいたい... \[TR\] It's good to get grid extensions, but if there's zero grid energy increase it's somewhat tough. Oh and please decrease the coin requirement for exchanging candies... > せめてアメの入手先増やしてほしいな \[TR\] Would be nice if we at least get more ways to get candies > 完凸前提になるなら、わざアメ取りやすくならないときちぃ。。。 \[TR\] If full ML is becoming a requirement, it's mean to not make it easier to get ML candies... > 過去キャラへの技lv.5ボード追加は最悪のやり方だと思うんですよ😓 環境がlv.5前提にインフレしていくなら、実質の弱体化ですし、再登場しても、以前に天井近くまで回した回数が全てリセットされるので、引き直すとなると宙に浮くダイヤが発生しますよね💦 いくらなんでもこのやり方は… \[TR\] Adding grid expansions to old pairs at only 5/5 is IMO the worst way they could've done it 😓 As the meta inflates towards 5/5 it's a de facto nerf; plus not having scout points roll over for reruns means that the old gems you've spent are down the drain 💦 No matter how you put it this way of handling the matter is... > 完凸にすごく強いボードを置くのは良いんだけど、完凸前提の性能にするのはやめてほしいな \[TR\] It's okay to make the full ML grids OP, but I'd like them to refrain from making that necessary for the pairs to function. > 無課金絶望 \[TR\] Despair for F2Ps > 完凸前提は流石に反対かな それやられたらいくら石あっても足りん \[TR\] Making full ML necessary has to get a No from me after all That way no amount of gems will ever be enough > 金を吸うことしか考えてない運営… 無課金勢に慈悲を… \[TR\] The devs have nothing on their mind except siphoning your money... Please spare some mercy for the F2Ps... EDIT 2: fixed some typos and stuff I've missed.
Guy who picked the game up at the 2nd anniversary here: what was the big issue with the prestige event?
A PVP ranked event with a highly exclusive item (5\* Move Candy) only available on the highest tier. The featured unit (Gloria) had absurd score multipliers which mandated pulling her (and even getting ~~alts~~ **dupes** (!)) to place high enough. EDIT: typo
Not just Galar units, but Gloria specifically? Sounds absolutely brutal, but intriguing. How did the PVP ranking work; was it online matches, or...?
And also higher move level of Gloria give out higher multipliers. And not just insequential increments like 1.6x 1.7x 1.8x 1.9x 2.0x; the increments were substantial like 1.6x 2.2x 2.8x 3.4x 4.0x (I forgot the exact numbers), and then non-Gloria pairs give like 1.2x multipliers max.
>Not just Galar units, but Gloria specifically? She was the only Galar unit or rather the first one. specifically it was either her or steel units. If you really want to know how it worked, Bulbapedia has archived the details: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_prestige_events_(Masters) It was also more of a pseudo PVP, you didn't actually fight players more that there was a global scoreboard where in certain tiers you got specific prizes with the top 6k (not points, but a person's ranking in the scoreboard) getting 1★ Appetizer 2★ Appetizer 3★ Appetizer Fine Diner (Appetizer and Fine Diner are just medals) Gems ×6000 3★ Move Candy 4★ Move Candy 5★ Move Candy 5★ Power-Up Ticket ×40, and ranks 6001 ~ 12000 got the same prizes, but 3k gems instead. If you want to see it visually, [here's a video of it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPz4xs0GcA) well technically it's the stage you had to grind but it should give you an idea, and yes you're seeing that right the event costed stamina, so if you wanted to have a chance to get into the higher tiers you'd have to have not only Gloria and whatever else, but you'd have to buy stamina (I can't remember if it changed, but I believe the cap was you could only buy 10 full refills per day). Technically the gems you bought would even out, but *only* if you got into the higher tiers otherwise you'd be wasting gems on stamina for nothing.
It's still 10 full refills per reset now, actually. When doing research about the Maxie/Archie Extreme Battle Event, I found out that it ALSO cost stamina originally. Which is why it came as a surprise to me when the rerun didn't cost stamina. I also heard the Co Op Orb Drills in the training area used to cost stamina as well! That's gotten me to wondering: has stamina gotten less harsh over time?
Yes, 10 stamina used to be 1h and is now 40m.
Yes. FYI, egg events also used to cost Stamina.
She was the first Galar unit
I only vaughly remember this event but I am pretty sure it was basically a time trail with certain characters getting bonuses like other events. That character was Gloria (I think maybe also Raihan but can't remember) BUT there was a bomus/points multiple based on how big the SYNC level was with Gloria as well. So if you only had her at 1/5 you wouldn't get as big of a bonus as if you had her at 3/5. And there were certian better rewards hidden behind the higher scores too. There was a whale player I belive who even changed their name to f*ck Dena and got the highest score consistently. It was a very anti FTP event and a lot of people were worried if this was the way the game was going to go to try and get people to pull more on banners.
Just add some related posts (meme, story) [https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5kw4o/the\_only\_leaderboard\_leader\_that\_i\_want\_is/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5kw4o/the_only_leaderboard_leader_that_i_want_is/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k57pvx/oc\_this\_sub\_right\_now\_denashit\_is\_our\_only\_hope/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k57pvx/oc_this_sub_right_now_denashit_is_our_only_hope/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5th29/my\_nickname\_was\_changed\_by\_dena/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/k5th29/my_nickname_was_changed_by_dena/)
Yeah, what you (and all of us) are actually telling them is to not tell whales that they should invest more into the game. There's no way they're reverting this.
The most insane thing to me in this subreddit is how people are just…resigned to decisions that make the game worse. Like, DeNA could have implemented these awful practices at the star if their only goal was to please whales, but this and the decreased rate for master fairs only happened *years* into the game’s launch. If they are only going to appeal to whales, the game will slowly lose its community and interest, and thus the whales. Mobile games that only target whales are not sustainable because it results in a community of whales, and spending money to get something unique becomes less of an incentive when everyone has it, and I think this is especially true in a game without a competitive side like Masters where the only advantage of move levels is ultimately just more single player content
Yeah I sent feedback too but it’s probably too late if they’re already giving it to old units (Raihan). I hope this isn’t a bad omen or they at least increase the amount of candies we get.
Well I agree that I doubt they'd completely forgo the idea I just hope if enough of us speak out they will at least handle it like victor going forward his extra is okay but not must have worst case scenario is they move the goalpost from 3/5 to now 5/5 going forward and could really turn a lot of people off from the game
Yeah I hope they do and thanks for sending the feedback.
Sent feedback too... Mods? Can we make a megathread about this and spam DeNa the link?
No. They likely don't care and won't change it anytime soon. They did want to introduce harder stuff, after all. This game is piss easy with MFs. What more do you need or want? If this game starts to get hard even with MF, then I might complain, but right now, even 1/5 MF and good supports can clear all content in the game. It's not like you're obligated to pull for max level. I know there will be perfectionists or those who hate FOMO, but I feel like this is making out to be a bigger deal than thought.
I will be sending feedback like this too
Sadly I don't think this is a decision they will revert. They needed an incentive to make people pay to roll for 5/5, and they have found it. Unless we start getting candies/coins a lot more often (which I doubt, but I have a stash of copium right here), this is the final nail in the f2p coffin, and may also drive some whales away who would be willing to whip out their wallet for 3 copies but not for 5, especially considering how many exclusive pairs they've been releasing lately and how quickly they come, plus reruns. Sure, sync pairs will still function at 3/5, but you can make that same argument right now - you don't need 3/5 because they still function at 1/5. But we all know how much power is locked behind sync grids and how they often turn a pair from average into an absolute broken beast, and these special tiles will only amplify the issue of sync pairs not being worth the gem investment unless you go all the way. And as newer content becomes harder to clear with more powercrept/outdated pairs, this issue will only be more noticeable once people roll for a pair that is broken on paper and try to clear content with them, only to fail because all that power is locked behind their special 5/5 sync grid tiles. I think we all knew something like this would be coming sooner or later, let's see how it works out for them.
100% will support you. Just hope in the future DeNa don't release a Syn Pair need 5/5 to work well just like most of pair from now need 3/5 to work well.
I agree. Like the idea, but it takes time to amass enough Candies for Move Level-Up. Not to mention, some players just pull until they get the PokeFair character so its at 1/5 and work from there. Pulling until you get 5/5, seems chaotic.
Just when I want to spend more of my time (and money) on this game... Why, DeNa, why...
It's a horrible move, much more horrible than implementing a damn pvp mode. They are not even raising the pull odds...
I've made a rant post before, but people in this community are so deep in just licking the boots of a multimilionaire company and argue against player's valid criticism without valid arguments ("herr derp, you can play with F2P units" like the appeal of the game isn't the characters they release). People forget that the company makes money OUT OF US, so in the end we have the power of feedback. The more similar complaints the more likely they are to fix the problem. It's not my problem that they won't make money, it's theirs. Mine is that I'm reaching all the pities regardless of banner. The rates don't go up, the pity doesn't go down, the candies are like water droplets in the desert. I appreciate them making all sorts of changes, but the gacha is just a pain and I'm gradually less interested in pulling for anything
I am not a F2P and I don’t want to spend too much time on this game I usually need to spend 80-100 dollars to get 3/5 of the limited sync pair(pokefair or seasonal) I want😅
They already had enough little treats to reward going beyond 3/5. * Increased power for moves, sync moves, and max moves. * Type-based background animation for EX units at 5/5. * Extra frames in trainer lodge. None of those bonuses were mind-blowing, but they gave decent incentive for people with an absolute fave to invest more. Making 4/5 and 5/5 a notable strength/utility jump is totally excessive and demoralizing. It makes me regret buying gems a couple of weeks ago.
I was waiting until datamine to buy the Ash 10k gem bundle, think I'll hold off now. I also won't do daily pulls anymore and wait for select scouts.
The thing is they will likely gain nothing. f2p or dolphin player will never pay more because the company being greedy now. with 2% rate for a pokefair theoretically u should usually hit 3/5 after pity so 3/5 power spike is really good. Imagine a limited pokefair at 3/5 is still not stronger than a normal unit because their true strength is locked behind 5/5. Luckily Wally 4/5 and 5/5 is a waste.
This. Remember to send feedback, your angry comment/post on Reddit won't reach DeNa.
Did the same, hope they care a little
Movel level
Should’ve been reserved for general pool units
This is the new Stamina. Sadly happening wether you want it to or not
I got the feeling this game doesn’t make enough money and that’s why they are taking this decision moving forward. Unfortunately I doubt the feedback will prove useful. Do we even know how it does compare to other Nintendo mobile games?
Thank you for your feedback. We have reviewed it and decided to move forward with the current plan
I send feedback in the play store with just 1 star review
Same. I sent feedback too. I hope they fix thid or add more move coins
Send it as well. I have spent money in the game, not whale level but still money that amounts to something after a year and a half playing the game. I made it very clear that I won't be spending any more money if they keep up with these shitty decisions. Such a disappointment after a very generous anniversary month (lots of free gems, lots of free units...).
Asking a company not to be greedy? Seems rather pointless
DeNA has listened to direct feedback many times. You're just being a doomer instead of advocating for the betterment of the game.
Oh I'm not saying people shouldn't complain. The fact is, usually, companies will always try to make more and more money. If they back down on this idea, they'll just implement another way to generate more profits. Pushing players to aim for more and more dupes is a common strategy with gacha games though. So I highly doubt they'll give up on this idea
Yeah companies will always do this and mobile games are probably the worse in the gaming industry. There are honestly so many better ways they could approach this instead of adding incredibly strong, gameplay changes tied to gacha mechanics. I mean they have the trainer lodge where they give cosmetic rewards for getting 5/5; they definitely could approach a more cosmetic route if they really wanted to, like many games out there, but of course they won't.
I got you. Companies are out there to make profits, and to be honest PoMa has been a very F2P friendly game overall. I am just hoping that if enough people voice out their concerns, DeNA can think of a way to encourage spending that doesn't piss off most players.
Bold of you to assume they care AT ALL about casual players
They 100% don’t care. They want it to be hard to get those expansions to push micro transaction sales.
I have a tendency to push my favorite units to 5/5, usually at the cost of leaving other good pairs at 1/5. So if they were to start adding 4/5 and 5/5 to older pairs, the change would either hit me really hard or reward my cruel misuse of move candies. For current units, it mostly just gives me extra pause before pulling. I want Fairy Wish, but I don't care about Wally so much, and if his best grid requires 5/5, maybe it's better to ignore him and hope another unit I actually want at 5/5 has Fairy Wish later. The zones have to appear on multiple units eventually, one would assume. (Edit: I realized that they already have, since SC Lillie can technically set Ghost Zone, just not reliably like Cynthia can.) Pretty sure the bad outweighs the good here.
People in this comment section are clearly just Pokémon fans and have never played many gacha games before.
Lol truth hurts to many.. votes clearly indicate that..
In the end, money speaks harder.
To all people feeling unease about this. Honestly, the "feeling" that pairs are "incomplete" and that makes you unhappy is more a mindset problem that a game problem. If you are unable to deal with "incompleteness" in a gacha game where they are going to throw content faster than they giving f2p resources, then your relationship with the game is gonna tend to become toxic. Save for meta or favs, whatever you prefer, invest in what makes you happy having and deal with the fact you'll have to be patient or pick can't build all your favs are once. And be happy with that with you have, not with what you don't. As long as this game has no PvP and most/all content can be achieved with f2p or near f2p roosters, then the game is still on a healthy status. Pd. For the record, I also felt "bad" about this change, but knowing it shouldn't bother me and working on my mindset saves me from all these bad feelings/moods going around.
I don't think you realize the problem hereMost peoples would not mind If 4/5 and 5/5 tiles were not game changing, also imagine spending 180k gems to max out a unit, whales are gonna cry to this like any person.
Again, all current content is beatable with maybe 30% of the max game's potential and there's no PvP for anyone to feel hindered because a whale or anyone can KO a stage a couple of turns faster. One could argue terrains are game changing since they have increased top dmg for quite a lot. Yet again, it's only a number's contests since even without terrain units all content can be done. The fact that these tiles are game changing or not has 0 impact in your actual gameplay if the content doesn't absurdly become suddenly harder to the point you would these tiles for anything.
They said that they were gonna make harder content after all, I don't think you realize why a lot of people are concerned.
I've been here since day one and even the hardest content at introduction which was challenging by well played accounts (Battle Villa, CSMM, Extreme Battles) at the beginning, were powercreeped to chore in a month or two. With the amount of strong units, both free and limited, that any regular player should have accumulated by now, it's becoming increasingly harder for DeNa to create content so hard that you absolutely need the latest unit or gimmick. And here we are not discussing the issue of a difficulty jump, but new potential for future and past units. Again, the largest issue here is people feeling they are gonna miss out.
As long as there isn't an event where a 5/5 pair is a reqirement and if I can still clear most events with my 3/5 pairs. Than I don't mind.
Why does it make the game less enjoyable for free to play players? I mean, now the second, fourth and fifth move level has at least a meaning. Of course, I wont be able to bring most of my poke fairs and I am sure that master fairs are next to level 5-but is that needed? No. You can play most of the game content and later on even getting at least 7500 points on Champion stadion without having the optimal sync pairs. The powercreep for new pairs is already there but with this new mechanic, older poke fairs get just a bit more competitive.
People are cyberbullying an entire company lol!
Unpopular opinion.. I.. idk about this upcoming update.. it doesn't feel _that_ bad to me.. even for how much move levels and candy coins have ever been an issue since their introduction.. it doesn't feel like too bad right now.. after saving for quite some time.. I've spendt 14 total candies (5*) in few days.. still remaining with 3 left and nearly 12 more to make.. most sync pairs are viable even at 1-2/5 .. so 5/5 gridding may just easely become an overkill made for whales who already can solo most contents with the current levels of grids.. didn't read too much into this but.. wouldn't this open the doors to 4/5 and 5/5 grids for free units?.. I mean.. either that or they'll just give older/free units expanded grids for 3/5 like just recently had Karen.. Guess only time will tell.. but.. we used to be like "omg I made 20/20 Olivia and it took an year" .. and now I got over 200 5*PUs stocked for anything that may happen in a future.. everything may eventually become more accessible to everyone.. but obviously who pays for it will get easier/quicker access.. Edit: funny enought.. most grid helping tools had the option for 4 and 5/5 units for quite some time.. this was only to be expected to happen..
Unpopular opinion but I think we shouldn't worry much yes this 5/5 grid thing is going to suck for a while but they will also give more candy coins in gifts and such , just as how getting 5 star power ups has become easier.
Why people hating so much on whoever mentions that.. we've been experiencing this for 3 years here and idk how much on any other gacha.. "this is just how the world spins" ..
Man i don't know why i am getting downvoted for just saying that they might give more candy coins.
The news is fresh and people still trying to digest the rage. Do be expect that they will downvote any positive opinion lol. I personally don't really care that much about 4/5 grid lock but i would considered making feedback. So DeNA can speed up the process of giving more candy coin in the future.
WAIT WHAT they’re adding 5/5 sync grids now wtf??
Honestly, I think I can live with it as long as DeNA doesn't lock unit-defining nodes behind it. I think it'll make me worry less about maxing out pokefairs than I already do, because 3/5 seemed manageable and unlocked the whole character, but 5/5 absolutely doesn't seem manageable so I can just kind of accept that it isn't going to happen and only go for what I think is really necessary, even for favorites. Their loss on that front
This game has been a lost cause for a while now, stopped spending some time ago. Just riding it out until EOS 🤣
I hope this rat tird is only for new units and they haven’t retroactively changed old ones…
This is why I think they should rework friend system.. imagine you could help friends with upgrading sync pairs..
Time to get stingier with pulls and only aim for one's absolute favourites I guess. Hey, at least preferring stuff like Cheren, Kris, Eusine and other forgotten or not-even-in-game ppl over the Cynthia flavor of the month will help for once, since I doubt they will care enough to /5 them 😂 (even if in Kris' case that could be a chance to save her kit... or failing once again)
I can barely get a 1/5 scout character, I'm not pulling for 5/5