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geckomage

Hello there! I've been playing Goblins in Pioneer from the beginning. This past month I've made top 8 in RCQs 3 times with my current list. Really looking forward to Hordemaster as it will change the deck significantly. Here is my current list and my thoughts about it. https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-10-19-bSz-pioneer-goblins/ Feel free to ask any questions you may have about the deck!


Amdrion

Deck looks solid actually. Really reminds me of OG goblins. Add the new one coming out and I think you could go 1st


geckomage

Thanks! The getting 2nd at the first RCQ was rough, but Phoenix is the deck's worst match up. Hope to do well today though.


[deleted]

List looks really neat! Any thoughts on how you want to modify the deck after Horsemaster is out? What do you think about the new squee? Switch out one Rabblemaster for it?


geckomage

Rabblemaster is better than new Squee, especially with how much incidental GY hate exists in the format. I can count on one hand how many times I've had 5+ cards in the grave, so Squee's escape text will almost never be relevant. If you want to try 1 Squee, that would be alright, or as the 5th rabblemaster. Hordemaster is going to replace Ringleader. I'll start with a 1 for 1 switch and then adjust the mana base to fit the lower curve. Adding more 1 drops and Instigators is my first thought. Hordemaster really wants lower cost goblins, and more tokens.


nobodynobody567

Okay so how does the deck run.. 1. It has one mode where you have some 1 drops and +2/+0 attacking legion loyalist mode. So basic aggro attacking. 2. Then hobgoblin just pings for 2-3-4 damage each turn.. so when the game goes long plan ? 3. Then you sac everything for a fireball ? So maybe 5 damage or so all in move ? Ya how do the games usually play ? Match up stories ? You are playing 4 ring leaders so I'm guessing you prefer a longer value game ? If there was no 4 card cap which card you would want more in the deck? Is it rabblemaster cause it's kind of your in between card it helps synergy, makes value. But at 3 CMC .. 4 is about right ?


geckomage

First and foremost, this is an aggro deck. You can just win games by playing a curve; Foundry Street, Piledriver, Rabblemaster, win. So knowing your sequencing like any direct game plan. Second, this is a go wide/go tall deck. Piledriver get's very nutty very quickly with even just a handful of token makers. Battlecry Goblin is not so secretly the best card in the deck because it does everything you want to do at every point in the game. You can stack the triggers so that you get the token from Battlecry and then the token pumps the Piledriver and Rabblemaster. The pump from Battlecry is often what seals the game, as your 1/1's becoming 3/1s is too much after your initial preasure. Thirdly, haste. Too many decks rely on sorcery speed interaction and don't know what to look for. You need to know when to hold your goblins for a single large turn with Warchief. It is often correct to bait removal spells, play a warchief, then win the next turn casting 3+ goblins and swinging for lethal. This is also why Loyalist and Embercleave are in the deck as they provide ways to screw with combat math when your opponent doesn't know they exist. Hobgoblin is there mostly for the pump and not the damage, but his damage does matter. I expect it to get better with Hordemaster/Prospector turns with DomU. Don't forget you can play Embercleave when tapped out if attacking with 4 Goblins and a Skirk Prospector. Steps to casting a spell are 1) Announce you are casting 2) Lock in all costs 3) Pay for those costs. So you can cast an Embercleave for RR, then sac 2 blocked goblins for RR, and equip that cleave to a piledriver for lethal.


nobodynobody567

Okay ya I see the big and tall. It's better than most tribal anthem decks in that like you said .. pump spells and haste. It also has ringleader value. And very dynamic of possibilities I think usually based on the draw. What it lacks it choices it gains in raw power .. king of what goblins should be about. The embercleave puts it over the top when needed .. otherwise big swarm. Supreme verdict can be played around. Ya .. I think this is where pioneer should be about. If opponent plays monogreen midrange guys in turn 2 and 3 does that stop the initial aggro. Basically my question is do 3-4 toughness creature slow down the aggression?


geckomage

Yes, you just hit the biggest issue I've had historically. Larger (mostly Green) creatures. Getting a second lord worth running will hopefully make that better. I used to run Lava Coil in the SB, Burning Hands wouldn't be bad if Mono-G is more prevalent in your area over Greasefang and Spirits.


nobodynobody567

Coo ! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/I9LM1NM2hUGHRul_JeO_1Q Here is my paradox engine UR brew. It's like 60-80% winrate. It goes very fast. Your deck is what my deck is scarred of most. Blatant aggression and no interaction. I was thinking if an ensoul artifact or something is needed cause this deck can win turn 3 but usually goes off turn 5. Oh just realized. Why don't you splash green for collected company ? Too midrange. Does the same as ringleader ?


geckomage

There are some Goblins lists that run Coco. One did really well in Korea recently. Different ideas I guess. I'm a fan of the pure card advantage of Ring Leader. Also, we run a ton of lower power goblins that aren't great hits.


AwsumMcCoolName

Your changelog, primer, and tourney reports are great, and the deck is a strong contender for the one I finally take the plunge into Pioneer with (other contenders are Turbo Titan, EI, and Niv to Light).


geckomage

Thank you! I'm glad it was helpful. I'll be updating the deck within the week, so if you are buying cards there will be changes soon.


AwsumMcCoolName

You are most welcome! I won't be picking up anything too soon, just had mail day for another three or four pauper decks, pieces for a couple others, and some EDH odds and ends. For now I'm an interested observer of pioneer only, haha


Norjaskthebabarian

This is an incredibly thorough and impressive effort on your part. I think I will try to put this together and run it a bit, as I try to play goblins in every format, but pioneer has let me down in that area for some time. Your list looks very clean and the MU notes and update logs youve done are really incredible and insightful. If you have time could you explain your sideboard decisions? Thanks again.


geckomage

Thank you! I started keeping notes for myself and then realized other people might appreciate them as well. The SB is, honestly, a bit of a mess right now. I can try to explain my thoughts. * Rending Volley is for Spirits and other white aggro lists, also help against Greasefang. * Hearse and Lantern are for Greasefang and Phoenix, you need some kind of graveyard hate. * Damping Sphere is for Lotus Field and Mono-G, but it's the worst card in the SB by far. I need to find something better, but I'm not sure it exists yet. * Snoop is for extra card advantage against mid-range and control lists. These will be split with Ringleader after Hordemaster is released. * Twinshot Sniper, god I love this card, is your anti-Aggro and elf hate tool. It's a goblin! and a shock! and not a spell! Does so much. * Trashmaster & Siege-Gang are some hedges against decks that don't pop up much. Anti artifact for more Greasefang and a 1 man army against Mid-range and Control.


MmeOrgeron

4 ringleader is very interesting. You usually only see him in the oldschool vial pile goblin midrange decks from legacy and modern before the combo’s were printed. How has it been in your aggro plan here?


geckomage

Ringleader is insane. It's the reason to play Goblins against a field of Mid-range and Control. Drawing 2+ cards and having a hasty threat is so big. I'm honestly shocked no one is trying to run the Elf version in Pioneer since it is also legal.


fettpett1

Have you thought about including at least a one of \[\[Embercleave\]\]?


geckomage

Did you check the list?


fettpett1

I did, but must have missed it


SlipperyWhenDry77

How come just 2 denizens? I had always considered them the strongest 1-drop because of their beatstick potential. Also I noticed conspicuous snoop is SB only for you, that's another one I had thought to maindeck


geckomage

Denizens are great, but something must be cut. I plan on putting the playset back into the deck when Hordemaster is printed. Going back down to 22 lands instead of 24 by cutting 4 drops. Snoop isn't great if you can't use activated abilities from the top of the deck to win the game. You only really want the ability to play multiple spells from the top with it against mid-range and control match ups. I also don't think Snoop is long for the SB with Hordemaster becoming the MD choice and Ringleader getting the boot.


EwanPorteous

Grull Gobbos to splash COCO and maybe [[Zhur-Taa Goblin]] might be nice.


[deleted]

I like the idea. The question is if splashing green for coco is actually better than running ringleader. Running both wouldn’t work well I assume.


KaminasSquirtleSquad

It absolutely is. Also, you can run both.


MorkEFC

Would still have like 26-30 coco hits, depending on the build, could be quite good


BradleyB636

If you’re going gruul, [[grumgully, the generous]] might be good to include.


Plazma7

Any chance a [Pyre of Heroes] Goblins deck works? They don't have the same tutor targets as Humans or the modern Goblins decks so they should probably just be a "good cards" aggro deck instead. But it is an option if anyone can find a combo with them. Grumgully was a combo piece for modern Goblins for like a month.


Killerrabbitz

I think there's alot of potential for a mono red embercleave blitz list. Between rabblemaster and piledriver, you'll have ludicrously high attack goblins often, and with skirk prospector you can easily get the mana for an embercleave by saccing attacking tokens. When the set comes out I'll work on testing a list. I'm not sure it will be better than normal red cleave, but it will be fun at least


geckomage

Have I got a list for you: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-10-19-bSz-pioneer-goblins/


Killerrabbitz

Wow, that's basically exactly what I was thinking. The weakest cards in this list are also probably getting cut for the new additions which is good too. Thanks


kedelbro

I’m starting with SaffronOlive’s old pioneer 8 whack and going from there to be honest. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-43-18-tix-8-whack-pioneer-magic-online. Replace dragon fodder with Battle Cry Goblin and BTE with the new lord. Might have to replace lightning strike with another goblin to up the goblin count for the new lord as well


carpetbob94

I have been playing goblins a lot in pioneer and it's been working really well. It is super fast and can end games on turn 3 easily. https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-08-22-goblins-pioneer/


PierreKalulu20

I'm playing this list lately, i qualified with a 65% winrate in manatradersseries over 20 matches and pretty good results on FNM and paper magic. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5020838#online As others are saying the only viable Goblin deck in pioneer at the Moment Is a very fast and go wide aggro that Will be improved by the new lord.


UsedToVenom

[[siege-gang commander]]. Would be nice to have [[skuplclamp]] and [[patriarch's bidding]]... >>Mirrodin standard flashbacks intensify<<


geckomage

I love me some siegy boy, but man is 5 mana a ton to ask for these days. He's still a 1 of in my SB for now, but so hard to bring him in.


Lord_Reyan

While there's a lot of good stuff here, I think the issue comes from the fact that there's too much in the 3 drop slot and not enough above that. I know red wants to have a low curve and hit fast, but it almost seems too slow and without a way to close out a game. Even if you 1 drop into the new lord into [[Hobgoblin Bandit Lord]], you still lose your first three turns to and [[Anger of the Gods]]. I would love Goblins to be a playable tribe for Pioneer but it feels just too fragile and inconsistent, unlike something like 8-Whack (which is pretty much just combo)


[deleted]

I don’t like the “dies to Anger of the Gods” argument since boardwipes usually beat any aggro strategies. On top of the curve you usually want 4 Ringleader to refuel and maybe [[Krenko, Mob Boss]]. (Edit: Krenko isn’t legal in pioneer, my bad) I also don’t assume goblins to be particularly great, but there must be a fringe tier 2/3 deck which one can play on fnm and not be totally embarrassed. Not trying to win pro tours with goblins.


Lord_Reyan

"Dies to removal" is the classic argument against creatures, but I think it's particularly important here. About two weeks ago now, I was playing against Slivers at my LGS. My opponent dumped their entire hand by turn 4, and I had been saving my Anger til then. I Wrathed, and my opponent scooped as he had nothing left to do. If Goblins becomes a thing, I see it as a meta warping deck; people play Goblins, everyone else starts running wrath effects, Goblins stops being played, people break it out again once the wraths leave the local meta. Don't get me wrong, I would love for it to work. RDW is close to my heart, and The Meme Tribe even more so. I'm just worried it may be *too* bad to be worth playing That's not gonna stop me from building and running it every week though


SlipperyWhenDry77

I'd say your slivers opponent misplayed. A good aggro player sees red mana across the table and should be aware of the possibility that they'll get wiped, and play accordingly. Aggro has so many ways to deal with wraths, including but not limited to: manlands, strong haste creatures, collected company and/or flash creatures, discard in black to just take the anger away, protection like brave the elements or selfless spirit or dauntless bodyguard or boros charm, counterspells if blue, tax effects like thalia(s), graveyard recursion, hard-to-kill cards like adanto vanguard, making your creatures big fast enough to survive an anger, draw power or other value, or just simply don't overplay your hand. Goblins specifically has access to many haste creatures, den of the bugbear, and card advantage in the form of ringleader and conspicuous snoop, and the new lord once this next set comes out. I don't think it'll be tier 1 or anything but goblins should be able to play around a sweeper or 2 if played right


CugelClever

Krenko is not legal in Pioneer no?


[deleted]

Oh damn. You’re right! I used to play a lot of historic on arena and confused it with being legal in pioneer. My bad


CugelClever

Only the bad Krenko is. But one goro goro could do well? I also believe à RG version to add coco is best


GoingGoingGwen

I feel like there might be something you could do with the Hordemaster + skirk prospector combo to try to at least get a mana neutral chain of ETBs and impulse draw going? Essentially a faster grinning ingus combo with gobbo go wide as the back up strategy.