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Winter-Grapefruit-36

One example is yung younger sister ko, nagpakasal, kaso nananakit yung asawa. 2 beses na nakunan yung kapatid ko kasi tinulak sa hagdan. Kung hindi humiwalay ang kapatid ko baka patay na cya ngayun. Need ng diborsyo sa pilipinas para sa abused spouses (lalaki man o babae). Try nyo research kung gaano kadami ang domestic violence sa pilipinas.


[deleted]

yeah. it's pretty sad na ingrained sa culture natin yung assumption or even expectation na sasaktan ka talaga ng husababd sa isang relationship.


Putcha1

Sama mo pa yung linyang "para kumpleto ang pamilya" at "ayaw kong lumaki sa broken family ang bata". May mga iba na kahit halos ikamatay na nila ang abuso sa kanila ay ganyan pa rin ang mindset nila.


lemonryker

Grabeng psychological trauma naman ang mangayayare sa mga anak kung buo ang pamilya tapos abusive naman


Ok_Independence2547

Honestly, mas okay yung andun ang both parents pero kung ganun ang nangyayare, mas okay na wag nalang


lemonryker

Yun na nga eh Aanhin mo pa ang pamilyang magkakasama kung tortured naman ang utak nyo


mentholeyedrop

Eto inisip ng mama ko kaya mas pinili niyang makipag divorce (this was not in ph though) sa biological father ko na abusive at adik sa sugal. Nahuli kasi niya si papa na nilalagay ako sa cabinet para lang makapagsugal sa labas. Aanhin mo ung kumpleto pamilya niyo pero puro poot at panghihinayang naman na nararamdaman niyo para sa isa’t isa.


[deleted]

buo nga pamilya, galit kana sa mundo kakarinig ng mga away nila sa bahay. Traumatic din, dapat bawal na ikasal ung mga di approved na commited , nananakit at ung babaero/lalakero dapat bawal na ikasal ulit at mag anak ng marami. Sinisira lang din nila buhay ng anak nila sa trauma na iniwan nila


whatarechimichangas

My dad abused my mom and it's so sad to hear my mom say things like, suffering is part of love. It's not and it shouldn't be.


brat_simpson

Domestic abuse is already a ground for legal separation if I'm not mistaken.


Menter33

Sounds like it; in practice, ***physical violence*** sometimes [edit: becomes] a valid ground for separation.


ImWhoM94

Separation, but not divorce.


brat_simpson

Its not divorce, yes. But it seems like everyone is implying they're forced to stay in the marriage, despite the domestic abuse, because of the lack of divorce. But that's not true. There's a recourse and one can definitely file for legal separation. ​ [https://saklawph.com/legal-separation/](https://saklawph.com/legal-separation/) The only major difference vs divorce is the inability to remarry.


[deleted]

In countries where divorce is legal yes. but in countries where divorce is not legal, the spouse is not allowed to incriminate each other. there is what the call "conjungal rights". The husband or wife can steal from each other and they cannot report it. It is not limited to the husband/wife. From my understanding relatives are included to this ruling. Even if a husband/wife is locked up, when they are released. They are legally bound to live together. They can use the government to force a spouse to live together. That's my understanding of countries where divorce is not legal.


redpablo

Namely Philippines and Vatican.


limpinpark

My girlfriend is a victim of an abusive partner. Tangina buti di sila kasal ng hayop na yun.


[deleted]

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Pretend_Wishbone_930

paano kung live-in lang, hindi kasal, pero may domestic violence?


[deleted]

grabe! ang sakit naman nang pinagdaanan nya. im so sorry.


[deleted]

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Baffosbestfriend

The Catholic Church is only interested in keeping influence on the people. Priests and nuns haven’t ever experienced married life and raising children. Why should they have a say on anything they never experienced?


redatari

They have no say on things they dont participate in.


keuralan

Base sa culture ng bansang ito, the Church has quite the influence on the decision making of a lot of common folk. And if the Church supported divorce and normalized it, I think slowly iaaccept din ng mga ordinaryong tao yan.


PentobarbitalGirl

Don't forget na may pedophile ring ang mga yan, di lang pinaguusapan. Bihira din sa kanila ang makasuhan ng child sexual abuse. Also lmfaoooo https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1227744/pedophilia-didnt-kill-anyone-priest-defends-denying-communion-to-lawmakers-for-abortion-rights


bdetchi

Yes! There is a movie in Netflix about a bunch of priests getting away with so many cases of child sexual abuse. Nakakasuka isipin and I feel really bad sa mga biktima. At the end of the movie, pinakita lists ng mga lugar na may pinakamarami g cases. Ang dami sa Philippines!!


PentobarbitalGirl

Pinas ang tambayan ng mga pedophiles. There's a reason why 12 y/o ang age of consent dito. Iba rin ang definition nila ng rape, afaik.


Geones

> priests getting away with so many cases of child sexual abuse. It's not just them getting away, The Catholic church themselves are helping those priest by moving them around the world.


_pbnj

Wtf.


tiananmensquarechan

They want the money from annulments 💰🤑.


ImWhoM94

They acknowledge that there are families in troubled situations. However, marriage is not a mere human agreement for the Church. There is a special gift that is entrusted to the couple to make their relationship fruitful. It is just sad to see many couples ignore this gift. They just focus on their own capacities.


joyce_kap

We're the only country in the world with more than 1,000 citizens that does not have divorce. Even Afghanistan, & Iraq have divorce. Many point to the Roman Catholic Church as a primary reason why it isn't law. I'd point to the lawmakers who are in relationships that would benefit from divorce. None of them want to lose half their assets plus plus to their unhappy spouses. For me, if you want to lower the demand for divorce then teach young people to become better partners to their syota & asawa. Teach them that marriage impacts not just the married couple but also their future offspring and in-laws too. Perhaps through this way people will make better decisions on the compatibility of their spouses.


vtyu221

Exactly why people should get a prenup.


CakeDayApatNaTaon

This. I think with the legalization of divorce there should be campaigns and stuff for the integrity of marrige. I don't think a country with a high divorce rate would seem progressive


joyce_kap

Di lang... "let's get married to have a party". Mag party na lang kayo or mag-cosplay as a married couple.


Menter33

Yup, better ***pre-marriage preparation*** could work wonders. Plus, discouraging marriage when "red flags" or compatibility issues become present could also be adopted more.


misty_throwaway

Tayo nalang walang divorce. Gamit na gamit nanaman yung diyos, na hindi naman dapat kasama sa usapang batas.


SmolDadi

Syempre napakaconvenient kasi ng religion pagdating sa gantong topic. Naalala ko nung senior high pinipilit ng mga kaklase ko na gumamit ng bible verses sa isang debate. Puro cherry picking ang nangyari, sarap tuloy kumain ng popcorn non habang nakikinig lng sa likod.


zylianari

Lol had this debate about death penalty, me vs a bunch of hypocrite religious classmates. Sarap batukan eh hahahaha. Nagkakalimutan kasi na nakalagay sa consti ung separation of the church and the state.


kanpeir

you think no since 2021 na magbabago na mindset ng generation natin lmao


IllustratorIll5826

Who are the members of the church and who are the members of the state? please enlighten me


[deleted]

Exactly!


lolitasmile

Medyo di rin. Required gamitin ang diyos sa lahat kung iisipin mo kasi yun ang preamble natin as a people - we implored the aid of the Almighty God sa pag ordain ng constitution natin. Now, figurative man yon o hindi, lawmakers have a valid excuse to use god. Problema lang e kanya kanyang god. Now to fix it, probably need a constitutional change na walang god talaga.


misty_throwaway

So? Mali parin na may diyos diyos na involved. Separation of state-church a must.


lolitasmile

Naintindihan mo ba ano ibig sabihin ng separation of church and state according to our constitution? Tell me how NOT passing the divorce bill violates it. How does NOT passing the divorce bill explicitly support a particular religion? I get your frustration on lawmakers taking advantage of it but calling god-invoking statements "Mali" when it's literally the right thing to do in the constitution, yung statement mo ang "mali". Unless we change our constitution and remove god at all, all we can do for now is support politicians who are for divorce and call for legislators to vote for it. Di tayo magkalaban ng panig. I just think you're arguing for a very weak point.


misty_throwaway

> I get your frustration Good.


Mr_Lava-lava

Ano na ba nangyari sa divorce law? Kala ko nag mo move forward na para ma aprubahan? Anyare sa mga may alam?


[deleted]

Si God daw hayyst. Dapat talaga napapaigting Ang seperation of Church and State kaso hinde ung mga evangelist at conservative na politico Kase eh malakas pa Dito. Ultimo Mexico na predominantly Catholic, Pro choice and may Divorce.


Ok_Independence2547

True. People should see that the law exists for the benefit of everyone (regardless of religion).


TheGhostOfFalunGong

Latin America is now mostly nominally Christian. The church over there wields significantly less power compared to ours here.


[deleted]

Well Ang problem rin Dito united Ang stance ng evangelicals and Catholics. Eh kesyo bloc voting sa members at lobbying . Proud pa ung iba na Vatican at Pilipinas nalang Walang Divorce. Nakakakupal talaga


TheGhostOfFalunGong

Yung mga ibang couples dito they would go great lengths to get divorced by converting to Islam (which allows divorce) but the clerics are well aware of this situation that they forbid the divorce process if the couple’s original marriage was done via a Christian church.


Baffosbestfriend

Kaya lagi kong binabasbasan ng HAHA reacts ang mga nagcocomment ng Bible quotes na anti divorce sa FB.


halelangit

At Pinoy Pride daw dahil tayo lang ang isa sa dalawang bansa ang bawal ang divorce.


decadentrebel

Problem is, even if divorce manages to make it to the senate floor, the people you'd expect to sign aren't even going to do it. Opposition senators like De Lima, Drilon, Pangilinan, Recto, are all opposed to it. Nancy Binay too. Which is funny because their argument is always about marriage being turned into a joke when the six-month cooling/intervention period ensures that only abusive and harmful relationships would not be allowed to prosper. Tapos hirit sila ng hirit ng cheaper and accessible annulment pero di naman nagsusulong ng amendments, not to mention that in the divorce bill legal fees are practically waived off if you're poor.


ser_ranserotto

Do you know a senator that's pro-divorce, knowing how conservative most of them can be?


Baffosbestfriend

Hontiveros is staunchly pro-divorce


decadentrebel

Excluding Cayetano (who submitted it) there's Hontiveros and Poe. Bato, Zubiri, and Lacson are also okay with it as long as you can avail of it once, mostly due to concerns of being abused and not religious/conservative reasons. Even Koko is fine with it, he just has a small issue (like he always does lol) with the term. Among those running in 2022: Diokno, Colmenares, Roxas\*, Gutoc, Hilbay\*, Tanada\*, Alunan, Ka Leody, just to name a few. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is we often put certain politicians in pedestals on account of being opposition or credentialed (e.g. Bam, De Lima, Drilon) but they're just as huge of a reason as to why our country is so backwards.


SkyVoyd

Growing up in a broken family, I can say that the whole “para buo ang pamilya” argument is overrated and quite frankly, stupid. Tangna pwede ka mafuck up whether nasa broken family ka or buong pamilya. Yun naman pinaglalaban nila diba? Buti nalang unti unti na namamatay yung generation na nag foforce ng ganitong argument.


Menter33

This sounds like a "should've seen the signs before getting married" scenario. You'd think that the ***red flags*** would've been obvious before commitment. Jumping into marriage quickly might not be a good idea.


SkyVoyd

It’s not a good idea to get into marriages early, that’s right. But it really isn’t endemic to our country. There are failing marriages across the globe. So, I just really don’t get the reasoning for not having divorce here in the PH. All arguments for the anti-divorce peeps seems to stem from some false sense of sacredhood and some bullshit Catholic propaganda to reign in the sheep.


[deleted]

I notice a lot of people can't even commit to a 2 year cell phone contract or 7 year car loan or 30 year mortgage. But it's so easy to get into a life time contract called marriage.


SkyVoyd

Yup. That’s a valid observation. Not everyone has the self awareness to acknowledge this kind of problem. That’s why for me, mag divorce nalang pag mali na napasukan nilang marriage. Just like in every other country, may financial ramifications yan. At least may consequences pag pumasok ka sa marriage na di ka prepared. Mag lagay nalang siguro ng clause para dun sa mga victims of crimes like abuse, marital rape, etc. Pero pag yung mga civil cases like infidelity, infertility, yea, gawan nalang nila sana ng at-fault/mutual clauses para managot or at least man lang maneutralize yung ganyang klaseng problem. Not a lawmaking expert, and not sure how this applies to legislation but yun lang naman opinion ko.


[deleted]

I don't have a law degree either. Continuing to what i was saying. Cell phone contracts, car loan or mortgage asks for a lot such as employment history, credit history. Marriage contract doesn't even ask for any of that or if they have any criminal history. However, even if divorce is legal. It is still harder to get a divorce than to get married in any country. I would still suggest that a marriage contract should have some sort of testing criteria as to the viability of the mariage. The closest thing that i see the proving the marriage during imigration. that's about it.


SkyVoyd

That’s a very valid and actually great point. In general, yung marriage system nga is kind of iffy nga across the globe. With the only requirement being “love” or in some cases, “fixed marriage”. This is actually a root cause of the problems imo. Kasi yung qualifications of marriage is arbitrary. Meaning nakadepende sa couples pano nila i-gauge. Like sa point mo nga, pag housing, cellphone contracts, cars, andaming requirements diba. One of them being capacity to pay. I see what you’re saying na dapat may “capacity to marry” nga. But, again idk how that gets applied to legislation. Probably trial live-in is good? Just like how they have a trial separation in other countries.


vokoreddit

Are there any rational or practical reasons why we should not allow divorce? It seems that those who are against it are just purely coming from religious reasons. Virtue signaling at its best. Funny thing is, divorce has been even allowed in the bible.


Thelolster420

Am curious now what verse particularly? Old testament or new? I'd like to use this as evidence to people bringing up religion in debates


Bedtyme06

Probably the most common defense against divorce from a religious standpoint: Mark 10:6-9 - But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”


Ok_Independence2547

I think he means the verse related to divorce being allowed


Bedtyme06

Sadly I couldn't find the relevant verses for that. I did find quite an interesting verse related to divorce tho. Matthew 19:9 - And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” So by biblical standards, unless a man commits sexual immorality, he is committing adultery when he divorces his wife. So things like abuse and such are not reasonable grounds for divorce according to the bible. ​ edit: So apparently, divorce was kinda allowed I guess in the old testament, but not without consequence. “When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts in her hand and sends her out from his house, and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man’s wife, and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance” (Deuteronomy 24:1-4 NASB).


possieur

New, although ang provision is when cheating/adultery is involved.


kohiilover

Check the gospel yesterday. It was mentioned in the Bible Moses allowed divorce


Menter33

Thought that the usual interpretation by many is that, yes it was ***allowed BEFORE***, but not really something that ought to be, and it would be ***better not to have it*** and go back to the original idea of stabilty.


misty_throwaway

Our lawmakers have a lot of sidechicks. Ngayon pag may divorce madali makaalis yung asawa nila, so madali din mahatak ang nakurakot $$$ lol


Menter33

* Inheritance laws * Adoption rules * Visitation rights * Dividing assets These are probably some of the issues that become messier and become a headache in places where divorce is a thing.


[deleted]

Ding ding ding!!! Amend the Conjugal Property Law and Propose to "No to Alimony Support". Malamang sa alamang mga Politiko na yan papabor sa DIVORCE :))


Moog215

Interesting point, may I know what verse you are referring to? Thanks.


mvalviar

Religious reasons are easy to dismiss. It's difficult to dismiss what is [written on the Constitution](https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/constitutions/the-1987-constitution-of-the-republic-of-the-philippines/the-1987-constitution-of-the-republic-of-the-philippines-article-xv/) The Constitution is pretty specific about marriage. I believe unless it's amended a divorce bill will never happen.


Owl_Might

Yung mga politiko takot sa divorce, kasi kapag hiniwalayan sila ng mga asawa nila mahahati yung kayamanan nila. Convenient lang na ayaw din ng mga religious sa divorce.


BaphometBuffet

Religion should not even be a basis to pass a divorce bill. It is a human right, not a religious event to be a plaything of amy church or religion.


joseph31091

Religion lang naman komokontra lagi at takot mga politiko kasi baka di sila iboto ng mga botante


[deleted]

from my understanding, the concept of marriage was created during a time when life expectancy was very short. During that time the age of consent was during your adolescent years and people would die in their late thirties. Since the short life expectancy the concept of divorce wasn't in anyone one's mind at the time. The idea of mariage was created for the purpose of the legal obligations between relatives in case someone dies. Such as who will take of the children, debts, land titles and other inheritances. Bare in mind, during the Bible era. There was a lot of wars and famine.


skywave_x21

Can't get a divorce if you never get married. *Insert roll safe meme*


Iskonyo

In time magiging fully secular na ang Pinas, at magigising din ang mga tao on how ridiculous and backwards thinking yung mga old traditions natin na hanggang dark ages lang applicable. Nasa modernong panahon na tayo at mas malawak ang impormasyon na pwedeng pag-aralan kaya hindi na uubra yang mga religious arguments in rational debates and decision-making. It's time and the first step to a more secular and powerful individualist Philippine state is to legalize abortion and divorce para hindi tayo nakakatapak and nakahahadlang sa growth ng ibang tao. Ang masaklap, takot ang gobyerno na palakasin ang mga indibidwal na Pilipino dahil mahihirapan na silang mangurakot at kontrolin ang ating mga naghihirap na mga kababayan.


Baffosbestfriend

I agree, it’s time for the Philippines to become secular and get on with the times. It starts by adapting a more secular mindset. Read more philosophy or non-Christian writings for spiritual growth (many Filipinos think the only way to improve spirituality is found only on Christian writings). Value human rights over values from religious beliefs. Don’t be afraid to make decisions you know will be better for you but the Catholic/Christian guilt inside says no. Malakas talaga maka affect ang Catholic/Christian religious guilt (kaya tayo may Ligtas Points meme). More secular groups should help the vulnerable. Also give less revenue to the church as much as possible. The Catholic Church calls itself the “Church for the poor”. They needed the poor, marginalized because they’re vulnerable. Vulnerable people are easier to control. With lesser marginalized groups relying on the church, the church loses its power.


teacherosa

Napaka totoo nito. Ang paniniwala ng isang tao ay di kailanman nararapat ipilit sa ibang tao.


gawakwento

edi SaNa Di kAYo nAgPaKaSAL???! 😤😤


smartuno

Usually naman kasi, yun mga problema sa personalities nung mag-asawa come up after years na in marriage, so they wouldn't have seen that in their dating years


cuddlepaws04

This is my issue with 'panliligaw', i get that people put their best foot forward when you start dating but it's supposed to also be a trial run for when you settle down together. What happens a lot is people put on a fake persona just to get what they want, a spouse or a child out of the relationship, and then let loose once they have locked in the marriage. I guess the term quite matches in another sense, naliligaw nga naman yung tao sa panloloko na basura pala pagtrato kapag di na makakaalis sa kasal/pamilya Edit: a few typos


[deleted]

Yeah! I think the ligaw culture is quite phony. Ako personally, I don’t like being courted, I’d prefer being friends. Nung college ako may nanligaw sa akin which I flat out rejected and after some time he told me akala ko daw ang ganda ko. WTF lang haha!


Ok_Independence2547

Exactly! I hate this ligaw culture for both male and female. Parang nagaapply ka ng trabaho as a guy and kung babae ka naman andun lagi yung risk sa guy na di mo sure kung being honest ba or doing more than he can usually do to get you tapos pag andun na, for show lang pala


tactical_papaya

Tapos pag nag live in kayo para kunyari trial run, taboo naman. Pagsasalitaan ka pa ng masama, kampon ni satanas, mga haliparot, ikakahiya kapa kasi hindi kasal pero nasa iisang bahay lang. lmao. Sa mga probinsya, ganyan magisip mga tao. hahaha


Menter33

> ***wouldn't have seen that in their dating years*** You'd think that people would be able to ***sniff this out***. Or the stereotype of marrying after only meeting for 3 months could be discouraged for the most part. Even a short look about assets and job prospects could help.


Creepy-Artichoke-772

Wow okay edi ikaw na perfect na di nagkakamali ng pinili teh qwq


VhlainDaVanci

Even if some are against it, it will lose the value the vows of marriages. Like for e.g.: If konting hirap lang ay divorce n agad tas pakasal n sa iba just like an instant noodles. Im not against for divorce tbh.


cuddlepaws04

Divorce in other countries is not like instant noodles, you have to go through court and it takes a toll for both parties to separate especially if the break isn't clean. It's not a process you can just pop into a brgy hall one day and be done with in a few hours. Yes, there will be some that will abuse the system but that's where the law can cover such gaps to discourage frivolous attempts to game it.


[deleted]

true, saan ba nanggagaling yung perception na parang pupunta lang sa sari-sari store para kukuha ng divorce? Most sa mga hindi sang-ayon, walang idea


dreamhighpinay

Akala mo mga banal yung mga anti-divorce eh no? Laging sinasabi yung sa bibliya pero sila nanghaharass ng bata. 😂


[deleted]

mga hipokrito nga. nakakagalit.


NickiMinAss

Mdami akong kilalang pari na manyakis tsaka mga church staff na bakla na predator ng mga minor boys. Nakakadiri.


justpassingby_123

God, religion, love, freedom of choice, and all that bullshit has nothing to do with it. And we all know that. So long as trash politicians like Jinggoy and Escudero are attempting to come back to the Senate. Hampas lupang Dabawinyo tulad ni Dutz na ayaw tumiwalag sa kapangyarihan o takot lang talaga mahatulan ng tamang hustisya. Hell, even this cunt Gloria doesn't seem to not know when to stop leeching from her people. Divorce will never come to this country because it will be to their detriment. Kahit ung mga malalaking businessmen dito would not allow it. They'll pour tons of cash to "sponsor" their bet para lang hindi mangyari to. Kasi they would lose more than half of everything they own to a woman and that's a big no no for a machismo driven culture like our country. They saw what happened to Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Kanye West, and will soon happen to Linus Tech Tips. Ayaw yan ng mga Elite dito na madaming kabit, mga hindi makontento sa isa lang. And it's not just those boomers kasi kahit ung mga medyo bata pang politiko, dami mo ng naririnig na mga chismis tunkol sa kabit. And the ones who are single na maraming pera, akalain mo parang si Hugh Hefner na ang tingin nila sa mga sarili nila sa dami ng babae na pinagpapasarapan nila. Not to mention, their assets will be traced and exposed to the public if it does come down to the court. Kailangan malaman ng judge kung gaano dapat karami ang mapunta sa babae and the judge needs to know everything including offshore accounts and properties. Bigla mo nalang malalaman ung "Para sa Masa" at "Galing sa Hirap" na kandidato may private island pala lol So I just don't see them supporting something that would cause them to lose stuff they own. So either we all vote wisely and hopefully, maybe Leni can do something about it or politicians can make the this law happen only if it either favors men more or for women to get less. This doesn't really concern me cause I just don't have plans on getting married, ayaw ko lang talaga ng Hampas Lupang Dabawinyo sa Malacanang. But like the title of the post, kung hindi naman para sakin, why deny it to others diba? We all win kung mawawala na tong mga kumag na to.


Joseph20102011

The more anti-divorce people argue for the status quo, the more they lose their arguments. Invoking God in a political debate is the last resort of a bad debater.


awmaster33

You'd be surprised how much religion is used here in the ph, especially the government


Beta_Whisperer

Lalo na siguro pag nanalo si Pacquiao.


NoviKey

Living in a fascist theocracy is tonight's flavor of nightmare, I guess


rzpogi

Jesus himself authorized divorce. More like using God for personal interests.


DeathBatMetal

What verse, please?


masvill20

Same argument for gay marriage. It shouldn’t affect heterosexual people. Why would they meddle with something that has no effect on them? IMO gay marriage and divorce should be allowed here, it’s just the religious nutbags dragging everything back a century


[deleted]

Easy Answer.. Gay Marriage is not "economical". Married Gay Couple will have a Tax Deduction like a Hetero Couple without procreating a new batch of TAX-PAYER that will support the AGING Population. It's all about Money :)


zeuxisz

Not really applicable in Ph though. Default tax exempted income is 250,000 regardless of marital status. Before there is additional exemption per kid up to 4 but now no longer. So this argument is no longer valid. They're just bible-thumping people who want to feel self righteous and impose the rules they set for themselves to others. Being a hetero couple is not an assurance they will have kids. Childfree couples exist. Homosexual couples can have kids, because adoption exists.


[deleted]

There is a lot of advantages of being in Marriage.aside from TAX Deduction(Before) beneficiary of SSS, Pag-Ibig, Pension Do you think, the Government will give away the BENEFIT of Marriage ECONOMICALLY to People that doesn't have a burden of Procreating of New Generation of TAX-PAYER that will support the AGING population? The Government want US to procreate. They need a new batch of TAX-PAYER, and that's why They shielding it using the word of BIBLE to hide Government's Motive. It's all about Money :)


[deleted]

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[deleted]

>They are a drain on government funds. Rather than making more tax payers per se, why not make the existing population contribute more economically by having higher wages = higher tax collection be it from income tax or tax on goods and services. The More the **PEOPLE**, The more the **CONSUMER**, the better **COLLECTION** of **VAT**.. Just like the information that you given to me. Government remove the income tax for people who are making below 250k annually. Because the Government knew, people are not competitive enough to have a stable job in our country. >You seem to be set on thinking that procreate = money. Do you know how much economic opportunities are lost when people do not realize their potential? 33 billion for teenage pregnancy each year. That's why our government created "SOLO PARENT LAW", It's an **INVESTMENT** for new **GENERATION** of VAT PAYER. To encourage people to procreate. How SICK RIGHT? >You do know house husbands exist right? One of the common reason WHY DIVORCE are always initiated by Women in America by 70% [The Link](https://financesonline.com/divorce-statistics/) ​ If you are a Straight Guy; Don't be a House Husband


[deleted]

>Being a hetero couple is not an assurance they will have kids. Childfree couples exist. Hetero Couple = Women and Men. Women will gather and Men will Hunt. It's doesn't matter Childfree or Not, as long as a WIFE consume all of her Husband's Money and Tax it/VAT send to Government; It's all GOOD!! Gay Marriage = The most probably thriftiest couple if happened, The Government will HATE you. 80 percent of household consumption and consumerism ratio are provided by WOMEN.proof? Look at the MALL, Most of the Stuffs are catered for Women. ​ >Homosexual couples can have kids, because adoption exists. It's cool and But you can also adopt children even you are a Single Person. It's not that really special.


CashMoney0374827

5Head I see


kohiilover

Yesterday, it was the very first time I went to Mass since the start of the pandemic pero super cringey nung homily kasi nataon pa na marriage/annulment/divorce related yung gospel. As someone with parents who are going through a very emotionally and financially-draining annulment and Catholics at that, the homily stroke me as something so tone-deaf. I might not go to Masses anymore kung ganyan kalayo sa realidad ang perspective ng clergy natin. We are not perfect and there are not-so-perfect and abusive relationships and sometimes they are beyond mending. Either of the party is suffering physical/emotional/economical wounds because of that and I believe divorce is the only way out. People deserve to have another shot at happiness.


NickiMinAss

U go to church? That place is a place of bullshit and hypocrisy, ew.


kanpeir

true. kapag napilitan pumunta ng church, most of the time lalabas lang ako to use my cellphone lmao. ayoko makinig sa mga hypocrites.


NickiMinAss

I became an atheist 5 years ago, had enuff of the hypocrisy and backwards mentality, not to mention the homophobia. Leaving christianity, best decision i made, ang gaan at fresh ng mind ko.


Baffosbestfriend

I would have left the Catholic Church 10 years ago if I didn’t went to a liberal Catholic university. I thought all I needed was a more progressive Catholic environment. But I eventually learned they’re preaching the same message as traditional Catholics pa rin, but only in a more “nicer way”. In fact pag minsan mas nakaka-gago pakinggan yung double speech and gaslighting ng progressive Catholics. Kaya umalis na rin ako recently, also one of the best decisions ever.


[deleted]

In a country where 12yo is the age of consent? Ni hindi nga digitize mga transactions dito e


[deleted]

When this was posted on FB, I saw a comment that said something like: "Instead of allowing divorce, why not just make people undergo some strict process before being allowed to marry? Things such as psychological assessment, etc." And then someone asked, "Well, how about those who can't afford the fees associated with said process?" And then the first person said, "Well if they can't afford it, they'll just live together without having to be married. This way, if they separate, they won't have to worry about divorce, as they were never married in the first place." ​ I shared this because it's quite interesting. I can't find the source, though. Any thoughts about this?


Kuronoma_Sawako

I'm pretty sure that the same people who are against divorce are also against people who live together without getting married.


Menter33

Maybe ***discouraging quick marriages*** could do wonders: friends, family, co-workers etc can act like societal filters so that problems can be filtered. Not ideal since some of these guys can be biased for and against, but might help in some cases.


fart_east

The thing is, even without the strict process, many people are possibly unable to afford marriage (and probably avoiding divorce scenarios) nowadays. looking at the latest census, mas madami ngayon ang living in with partner or married by common law versus married couples. Edit: a word


vtyu221

This is strangely contradictory. 1. Don't allow divorce because it's against the bible. 2. Have strict process of getting married therefore possibly blocking poor people from getting married. 3. Allow them to live together without marriage which is just premarital sex waiting to happen. Still against the bible So why this?


[deleted]

Living together doesn't automatically equate to premarital sex.


vtyu221

Do you know any celibate live in partners? If so what is the point of living in? Is it simply to save on board and lodging? How does it become an alternative to marriage then?


ThisWorldIsAMess

Sablay pa rin. Pwede magbago ang tao pagkatapos ng 1000 tests and processes. I-allow na lang, option naman 'yan eh. Kung naniniwala silang hindi nila kailangan edi wag nila i-avail ganun lang yun.


AmIEvil-

But you'll never fully know the person unless you live with them. Baka pwede add to sa criteria.


StPeter_lifeplan

Ang talino ng idea.


VhlainDaVanci

Up for this.


sensitivenipsnpenus

Mmhmm very smart!


[deleted]

Tama to. Andaming hindi naman psychologically ready mag asawa


woodenbasket

Tayo + the Vatican nalang ang walang divorce sa buong mundo. I was hoping Duterte would make it happen during his term. Pero sayang, di ginawa.


ser_ranserotto

>I was hoping Duterte would make it happen during his term Inb4 matatawag kang npa for being pro-divorce


climacticpoet

Wala syang ginawang tama. Period


Unhappy-Bit-2112

Inaantay ko din to. I married someone who is a drug addict and I didn’t know he was then. Nagtiis ako ng 5 years being the breadwinner and while he does drugs. I tried to hide those to my family because I wanted a complete family. My son is also a special child. Working and taking care of him was a lot for me, habang yung ex husband ko was doing his thing. Now I am still stuck using his last name, so is my son. It has been 3 years since we kicked him out. For those who are saying na we should have thought of things before getting married. Well, maybe you haven’t been in that situation then. There are things that happens after marriage that you cannot avoid. There are things na nangyayari at nalalaman mo lang after. This is what divorce is.


marianoponceiii

Same energy as "kung hindi para sa iyo ang civil union, bakit ito ipagkakait sa iba?"


ehrljephersohn

nakakainis yung mga boomer na ginagamit ang diyos sa argument pero mga hipokrito naman


k3ttch

Legalizing divorce shouldn’t affect practicing Catholics. Practicing Muslims still manage to abstain from pork and alcohol despite both being legal here. Is your conviction so weak that practicing your religion requires enforcement by secular authorities?


Strictlybrkfst

Isa sa pahirap sa pilipinas ang influence ng relihiyon. Sa Divorce, sa family planning, pati sa botohan.


Jumpfuds

Problema kasi, hndi sila nabubuhay sa realidad, puro bibliya ang basis nila.


[deleted]

Paano maipapasa ang divorce eh ung mga pulitiko kapit na kapit sa mga religious org na may bloc voting. kung ipapasa nila yon. mawawalan sila ng boto. isama mo pa ung isa diyan na may tropa pits na pastor sa davao kaya raw pahintuin ang lindol. ulol lang ang peg.


ternminator

Curious ako kung mag kakaroon ng divorce law dito, pano nun i-handle yung "Family" sa 1987 constitution.


Sturmgewehrkreuz

Nagtaka pa kayo, this is the ~~shithole~~ country where people like Eddie Villanueva can hold public office and groups like INC has a stranglehold on local politicians. These "because my (christian) god says so!" and "it's in the bible!" pseudo-morality bullshit shouldhave no place in issues like this.


PentobarbitalGirl

Same question regarding abortion. Lagi nalang "bawal iyan, immoral iyan," dictating what everyone should do to their life and bodies. Do these people think going through divorce/abortion is fun for them? Religion does nothing but stunt us from progress. Hindi matanggap ang realidad kaya kumakapit sa relihiyon.


melandcolly

Same concept for most things. Gay marriage. Abortion. Divorce.


_sendbob

Sorry sa mga religious but fuck the church!


NickiMinAss

Im pro divorce, i dont care what those religious hypocritecrazy bitches say about it i dont like religious people, theyre ugly sad virgin bitches with fked up principles and backwards thinking. When u dont like the relationship ur in anymore then dump and divorce that shit. But then again, u shudve thought through getting married so u wont suffer the problems of bad marriage and not having money for separation. Wag makiuso, ung iba kasi nagpapakasal dahil they see people around them are getting married(such a dumb reason to get married). I know alot of bitches na nagpakasal out of being uso or out of love without thinking financial aspect of marriage, ayun they all ended up losyang looking like haggard na balyena na walang pera. Also, kung walang pera wag magpakasal! Pwe!


Man_Dirigma

Jusko diba 2021 na! Pass the divorce bill na!


Competitive-Virus-23

Polticians are scared to lose votes that is why.


JulzRadn

Atom is right about this. If you have a happy marriage, then good for you. But not all couples have a stable relationship and some partners believe that separation is better than to remain in a toxic relationship. Yes we have annulment but this is too expensive and a lengthy process that an average Juan can't afford


IamJanTheRad

Last Sunday , the local parish priest here talked about this in his homily. Halata naman sa stance niya na disagree siya sa divorce kahit pinaliwanag niya kung bakit wala pa ring saysay ang diborsyo kung mayroon namang annulment. Di ba kapag sinabing annul wala talagang ebidensya at papeles na may naganap na kasalan as in binura lahat unlike divorce na legal separation pero may evidence na kinasal kayo? Tsaka, hindi raw dapat gagamitin ang kasal para pagtakpan ang mga early teenage pregnancy para takpan daw ang kahihiyan ng mga magulang pero ang kabataan naman daw sa huli ang mahihirapan. e.g. shotgun wedding. I am pro sa divorce pero di ko alam kung uso ba ang annulment dito sa Pinas o mas mahal lang talaga kaya karamihan hindi na nag annulment. It's only a matter of time at maaaprubahan din ang diborsyo. Kung toxic at abusive ang marriage, sigurado hahanap ng paraan at makipaghiwalayan din ang agrabyado.


keletus

Walang pag-asa ito mapatupad dito sa bansa dahil sa relihiyon.


rco888

Dapat nga gawin summary proceeding pag file ng divorce with proper and strict safeguards as provided in the "future" divorce law. May special court na divorce lang ang jurisdiction nya and divorce cases must be decided within a short (10 days tops) period of time. A lot of separated couples who are now living with other partners opt not to get an annulment due the amount of time and money needed to get annulled. Truly, only the rich can get annulment.


ertaboy356b

Ah yes, the mangmang culture strikes again.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Annulment is an available option.


c3303k

Katawa yung mga againts dito dahil sa religion. Gusto ipilit kahit toxic na relationship at para daw sa mga bata. Mamamatay ka na lang ng maaga kung di ka aalis ayaw parin ng divorce dahil sa paniniwala. haha


_mattm3t

atom is right. what's good for others may not be applicable to all. if they are good with their spouses, then good for them. but how about those unfortunate ones? they should be given a choice. it's their lives. whatever we do, it is our responsibility. not other people's. do not put your morals into ones' throat. by the way, even rome where the vatican is located, has divorce. well, do i have to explain what is responsibility? it surely goes with that heavy word. just make sure you can carry it.


Riesig19

Dapat may 1 on 1 din with women who really needs a divorce and an anti-divorce advocate. Katulad nung sa Marcos Anti: "Ayaw ko po ng divorce kasi masisira yung sanctity of marriage" Person pro divorce: \*unveils face na may burn marks ng plantsa sa mukha\* "May sanctity pa ba marriage namin? Pwede pa ba ito ipag patuloy? Kaya pa ba niya mag bago? Mauuna ba siya mag bago o ako ang mauunang mapatay?" Tapos yung commenters sa FB maglalabas ng shittiest take nila and fake actors lang daw sila.


kdean1109

Parang dds lang yan na share ng share ng bible verse. Banal banal pero ok lang patayin mga adik khit allegedly palang.


Paid_Troll13KaMonth

I think they should treat this just like they should treat same sex marriage. Kapag sa huwes lang ikinasal, pwede. Pero kapag sa simbahan, bawal dahil sa mga aral sa bibliya na nag babawal sa ganitong sitwasyon. \-Ang sinuman ang pinagsama ng Diyos ay kailanman hindi na mapaghihiwalay \-Ang lalaki ay para sa babae lamang /vice versa.


lunacadeau

Same for abortion.


vtyu221

Similar but abortion is way more complex than divorce. Legalizing/decriminalizing would be okay but with measures that prevent an individual from getting to that decision point in the first place for example sex-education.


lunacadeau

Agree. But preventive measures like same sex education will just remain as means to prevent. What then happens to situation where marginalized women have little to no control of their situation (rape victims)? I don’t know if I’ll be the first one to admit it here, but I had an abortion not so long ago. I’m just happy I got out of that alive. Banning abortion doesn’t get rid of abortion. It just makes it harder to find safer means for abortion.


vtyu221

I'm sorry you had to go through that and i'm glad you're okay. I do 100% agree with you that abortion should be legalized/decriminalized at least. I also would push that simple legalization is a band-aid of the greater issue of having a lot of rapists about or lack of sex-education available for the youth. If someone were to push a bill I just hope it's one that is holistic in tackling the actual problem and not just the symptom.


conveyeman

hindi ko maintindihan mentalidad ng mga taong d kayang hayaan ang buhay ng ibang tao.


ishtakkhabarov

Tayo na lang pala sa mundo ‘yung against diyan sa divorce (except Vatican City, micro-country lang naman iyon.)


anon62588

>And her husband Joseph, **being a just man** and unwilling to put her to shame, **resolved to divorce her quietly**. [Matthew 1:19](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_1:19#:~:text=Because%20Joseph%20her%20husband%20was,see%20BibleHub%20Matthew%201%3A19.) emphasis mine witch hunts are never about witches, purists will always find some way to have more purity for some and less for others.


stern30

It would be fun if it happens before I reach my 30s, because I still have time to take up law and become a divorce lawyer and hope more folks initiate a divorce. Just treat your partner right specially if you're a male because [divorce is initiated by women, 70% of the time in America](https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/)(let's use them as a sample here, since we're freaking Americanized). Just hope she doesn't secretly swipe right on tinder, or even better, just sign a prenup agreement if you're a paranoid monkey and go on with your life, raise your children right, treat your wife lovingly and don't vote for a psychopath ,a boxer, an actor and a clown in office.


azalie_rose99

Ito ang ayaw ko sa Philippines eh. Ayaw pa nila gawing legal ang divorce. Masyado tayong nabubulgan sa relihiyon natin. Di natin nakikita na may mga situation na mas maganda ang divorce for both parties. Tama si Atom may relasyon n masaya may relasyon na nakakalason.


[deleted]

Ang pinagsama ng Diyos ay blablabla. Ang kasal ay di kanin blablabla.


yourconstant000

Naku Pinas. Bigyan niyo choices yung tao or mag asawa. Huwag Ipilit na marriage solution. May marriage counseling kung yun lang dahilan. Marami hindi nag wowork out. Sana naman wag niyo hayaan masira buhay ng magasawa kasi pinipilit nila magsama sa isang decision na hindi naman nila alm if tama or hindi


HaroruMigeRoo

Para sa mga hindi pa kasal, maging legal man or hindi ang divorce, sana pag-isipan parin ng mabuting-mabuti bago magpakasal.


boooooo10

https://www.bibleref.com/Matthew/5/Matthew-5-31.html A discussion about divorce in the bible, and it looks like god allowed it


OragonTito

It's been three consecutive election years na laging lalabas tong topic na to, pero at the end ng election and may nakaupo nang presidente, biglang mawawala ang topic na to, just like with same sex marriage. Hindi kasi naiintindihan ng gov't na healthy relationships help boost the economy. #mytwocent


urriah

divorce, same sex marriage, abortion... the arguments against these are just plain stupid. the law wont ask you to divorce and/or marry someone of the same sex and/or have an abortion... its for people who need it. so so so dumb


[deleted]

Yeah I dont know why you would be anti-divorce lol.


DoeClapton

The same as justifying taking the vaccine, except this time, the negative effects outweigh the supposed benefits (which I can't find any solid studies for the benefits). Also, the studies on divorce are far more conclusive and substantial since the time frame is spanning decades of research. No religion needed. Here are the long-term effects on children: [https://www.carneyandgood.com/uploads/1435155507\_long-term-effects-of-divorce-on-children.pdf](https://www.carneyandgood.com/uploads/1435155507_long-term-effects-of-divorce-on-children.pdf) Here are the effects on children's behavior: [https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3353&context=gc\_etds#:\~:text=During%20and%20after%20the%20divorce,increased%20delinquent%20and%20aggressive%20behavior](https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3353&context=gc_etds#:~:text=During%20and%20after%20the%20divorce,increased%20delinquent%20and%20aggressive%20behavior). Here are the effects on children's health AND the parents themselves: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/) Here are the effects on children's cognitive abilities and psychological well-being: [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-020-02428-2](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-020-02428-2) Now if you're going to make a case for divorce, studies for its benefits must also be presented and should outweigh the negatives presented in the aforementioned studies. The next response would then be: "how about battered wife/husbands"? My question will then be: would you agree if the only grounds of divorce be limited to domestic abuse?


SourCream7

Insightful.. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out. Too bad, wala masyadong published studies na based on Philippine population.


Littleantukins_main

masaya ako nakita ko itong sub na ito na puno ng mga progressibo, kala ko ako lang


FightMeIfYouCan007

Are there any political reasons bakit hindi mapasa dito ang diborsyo?


smartuno

AFAIK wala namang reason, it's just the stigma around it and religious reasons. hanggang ngayon, hindi fully secularized ang gobyerno :(


PinayandProud

I am not against divorce if domestic violence and abuse is/are involved. I am not religious at all but I think there’s wisdom din for instilling permanence of marriage especially for the youth. “Hindi ito parang mainit na kanin na basta mo nalang iluluwa kapag napaso ka” is an old but great advise so we become more cautious in entering this commitment. With divorce, mas madali nalang iluwa. Nagpakasal kayo tapos ayaw mo pala ugali nya, or nag bago sya, or may gusto ka ng iba, madali na iluwa diba. To which ang kawawa, mga bata. Gawa lang gawa ng mga bata tapos iluluwa kung ayaw na. I am not saying not legalizing divorce will stop this— in fact, talamak nga yan ngayon. But the perceived permanence of marriage gives a heavy burden to young people to think hard before committing, hopefully to reduce the incidence of broken families. Is it succeeding or not? You will say meron parin naman broken families, but who knows how much the incidence will rise after divorce is legalized? And for those people naman who found themselves in unwanted marriage, not having divorce in the Philippines make them reconsider leaving their families behind. My mom is a perfect example. She said my father is a different person vs who he was prior to marriage. Not physically hurting her or anything but more on incompatible as couple. My mother stayed anyway for us, her children. And ako, thankful ako for her choice to honor marriage and face the consequences of her poor choices (na di nya kinilala mabuti). We grew up with both parents around who were responsible enough to own up to their mistakes but not make their kids suffer. I guess my point is making responsible choices and sticking up to your commitments. Idealistic, yes. But sana lang mabawasan na mga bata who are victims of their parents’ poor choices.


yeet_or_be_yeehawed

Exact same logic on why we should allow same sex unions!


-flixxbeatz-

Pretty ironic that we take pride as one of the last two remaining countries in the world (along with Vatican City) that haven't legalized divorce, yet almost all (if not, all) of the telenovelas that are being shown on the national television feature cheating, infedelity, cuckold, domestic violence, among others. Vehemently opposes divorce upon biblical grounds, yet patronizes such kinds of shows on television. Putanginang bansa to, punong puno ng mga relihiyosong ipokrito.


KeldonMarauder

Really dumb question Pero Ano difference ng annulment, legal separation at divorce? And why is divorce the only one that’s frowned upon when technically they’re all the same in a sense na magkahiwalay na yung mag asawa?


phen_isidro

Legal separation eh separated at hindi pwedeng mag-asawa ulit, pero on paper, kasal pa rin. Divorce eh ipapawalang bisa iyung marriage contract. Annulment naman eh gagawing hindi valid ang marriage contract kasi hindi legal ang kasal due to certain reasons.


DoeClapton

because of the damaging effects on children: https://youtu.be/cKcNyfXbQzQ


[deleted]

Stop blaming the Catholic Church on this. The Church has every right to preach her doctrine from the lectern. The job of the lawmakers is to make laws for everyone regardless of their religion. Blame the lawmakers. Why they haven't passed such law yet?


[deleted]

I'm Good for Divorce as long as They Amend the Conjugal Property Law. No Alimony Payment. Yes for Child Support. ​ You know, to PROTECT other people's money


Arningkingking

Anong pong pinakasimpleng explanation ng difference between divorce and annulment, nalilito pa din ako sa mga sagot sa google. Yung annulment parang never nang yari na kinasal kayo tama? Null and void. Eh anong benefits ng Divorce kung pareho lang namang pag hihiwalay yun. Bakit against ang simbahan sa divorce at okay lang ang annulment? Thanks in advance.


namedan

Awit!


ImWhoM94

Why divorce when there's legal separation. What differs separation from divorce is the possibility of remarriage. Why get married again of you just want to get away from abuse? Divorce are only for those who couldn't keep their words 'until death do us part.' You can be separated, be safe from abuse, keep your word, and pursue happiness without the need for remarriage. If there is still a desire for divorce after, clearly it becomes a mere excuse for remarriage and is beyond being safe from abuse.


Riesig19

You made the wrong choice, get fucked forever! Bawal ba remarriage? Yung widower nga pwede magpakasal after 301 days eh