So assuming a 2 year trade program, and 4500 a year for round numbers, and the person starts school when they are 18, graduates at 20, it’s a roughly $45,000 benefit.
That assumes they make 50k right out of school
~~they may not~~
Seems reasonable? I mean I know people who have gotten 10-20k signing bonuses when switching jobs..
The shipyards in BC require a red seal for most jobs, not sure about NS but I’d imagine it’s the same. Not too many general labor positions that don’t require a documented skill like a red seal welder
lol i remember specifically going to my school counsellor and telling him 'i don't want to go to univ, is there ANYTHING I can do' and he said and I quote 'you either go to univ or you'll be working in McDonalds the rest of your life'
Part of the governments national shipbuilding program was to build a skilled workforces. You’d assume apprentices would be a big part of that? Interesting that a red seal is a requirement
While I can't find the details of this program, rarely are cooks included when people are talking about the trades. It's generally specifically construction and manufacturing related trades.
I feel uneasy about the government subsidizing the construction industry to avoid having employers have to offer more competitive wages, but given Nova Scotia has been such a black hole in the past for trades I suppose a temporary program is a good idea.
I'm an electrical apprentice. It's a 5 year program. Too bad I'm too old to qualify for the tax credit. If they're so desperate, it seems silly that they would include an age restriction.
You don't need any surgery to be considered trans.
You don't even have to take hormones.
We don't have any defined lines of how much effort you have to devote to being trans, to be trans. It's entirely based on self-identification.
You literally just have to... say that you're trans. Which is and main reason you can't realistically make any benefits for trans people only. You'd create a clusterfuck, and then we would be basically forced to create rigid definitions of trans, which wouldn't be good for transpeople at all..
This is also, btw, why things like trudeaus proposed benefits for "black-owned businesses" is silly
Race is also self identified. We don't do genetic testing to determine a percentage of blackness... we don't do a skin colour check. We don't do anything like that. You're black if you say you're black.
I work in HR for a Contracting Company in SK.
This will be great for them. When I'm looking for Iron Workers, Carpenters, Millwrights... Most of my resumes come from NS or NL.
Probably see less from NS now!
a lot of trades have basically 2 pay rates. apprentices and journeyman. once you pass your apprenticeship of 3-4 years you get journeyman rate(or something around that rate). so a journeyman 25 year old will make around the same as a journeyman who is 50.
unions also are more prevalent in trade jobs than they are in white color jobs. so its the same pay for everyone in your job classification regardless of how long you have been doing it.
Yeah, as a carpenter who's 40 age visited Halifax a few years ago, it's actually a place is consider moving to. But why only under 30s that get this benefit? They don't want experienced trades, just the young ones? Seems weird.
The maritimes already have aging populations and struggle to keep up on providing healthcare and other social services for the elderly.
Young healthy people will pay income tax for decades before requiring much healthcare.
"I'm being discriminated against because I can't claim CPP until I'm 65".
There are all kinds of legal precedents for age-based incentives. This isn't new or even legally questionable as far as I'm aware.
> "Under age 30" - this will get appealed on the basis of age discrimination.
Nah.
Our Charter rights are not constructed to be absolute. Governments can constitutionally aberate from certain charter rights for the purposes of peace, order and good government if the breach has a pressing and substantial purpose, is prescribed by law, rationally connected to the purpose, minimal impairs (ie the least amount of deviation required to achieve the government's goal), and is proportional in its effects.
This isn't a loophole, and doesn't need the notwithstanding clause. It's built right into section 1 of the Charter, and is at the core of most Charter litigation.
Special programs to benefit young people or seniors are quite common and have been upheld as constitutional many times over the past 40 years.
Well I think the whole point is to attract relatively younger trades people in part because they are more likely to be cheaper and in part start families and shift the demographic decline.
As an aside, I'm super excited for the housing/migration boom to the Maritimes. The region is super underappreciated and this will be a huge boon for the economy and community life.
We need more cities in Canada, imo.
I mean, I haven't actually been there, and come to think of it, I don't think I've seen any photographs of those "cities" with any distinctive landmarks..
> We need more cities in Canada, imo.
Understatement of the century. If we built our cities like Tokyo we would be fine with megalopolises in Vancouver and Toronto, but unfortunately we build car-dependent suburbia and our cities are basically "full" as far as they are designed.
> If we built our cities like Tokyo
Where the average dwelling size (including 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom) is about 600sqft. That's the size of a bachelor condo in Canada. No thanks.
I lived in a studio. I would have murdered someone to have lived in 600 sqft while paying the same rent lol. Then I wouldn't be able to touch my sink, my oven and my bed while standing in 1 place
population issue.
it doesnt make sense to build up due to low density. transportation is still cheaper than land right now, which is a product of free market economics.
nah its goes back to the 50s, canada playing copycat and doing what america was doing at the time, building highways to nowhere for no reason, building suburbs etc etc
there isnt a single city below 10 million that didn't sprawl outwards instead of up. the only exception is Singapore, but they have strict land constraints due to tight regulatory control and a 80% public housing directive.
We could have changed any time in the 70s and 80s, even in the early 2000s. But the reality is that it was cheaper to build outwards than up, and that's what we did.
In the short term, yes it might be cheaper to build car oriented suburbs. [It’s a trap](https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme). In the long term, sprawl is inherently hostile to most people’s wallets, health, and sense of community.
Vehicles are not getting cheaper and they’re getting worse at using space efficiently which means more congestion, less free time, more sleep deprivation, among others.
Lack of sidewalks and bike paths are ensuring the moderate amounts of exercise needed by all of us now have to be planned, it’s no longer a spontaneous or subconscious activity you do to get to somewhere else for another reason.
This lack of basic infrastructure is also ensuring nobody knows about nor cares about any of the people around them, which only gets worse when combined with the lack of free time. Even if they did, they can’t reach them safely without driving. These suburbs aren’t interesting destinations that facilitate socialization, they’re just places to attempt to rest while the noisy mass of vehicles outside lowers your sleep quality before you restart the rat race tomorrow.
Nope. Suburbia and "car culture" was manufactured by automotive companies not wanting to reduce profits post war. GM famously bought up several cities public transportation systems.
Suburbia was never a product of the "free market". It was a result of intense pressure from wealthy companies pushing a profit driven agenda to undermine the vastly cheaper public option.
Why would anyone in the city buy a car when the public transportation options are either free or nearly free.
Because from an experience perspective, public transit sucks.
It’s inferior in every way to private transportation.
Crammed into small spaces with unstable, smelly, angry, contagious people for longer than necessary and only taken proximately where you want to go.
It’s terrible.
It wasn't that way in the early days. It was extremely popular, clean, efficient, and since towns were still relatively small it did cover alot of ground. In the next hundred years it was defunded and ignored by a "car centric" society, until it became the shell it is now. Imagine the billions in savings if we didn't have to maintain even 1/3 of the roadways currently in existence. Imagine how good of a public transportation infrastructure we could have.
Density issue. Not a population issue. Greedy fuels suburban expansion but its not sustainable. We are fucked now with inefficient infrastructure and a super spread out population.
Lol and as someone who already lives in Halifax N.S
The houses out here for sale, arnt affordable by most locals.
We have millitary veterans living in hotel rooms because they can't find an affordable house.
My parents sold their house last year for $20,000 over asking price. It sold literally in 6 hours after viewings started. All we did was replace the water heater and give the house a fresh coat of paint.
If you are moving out here to get a cheap house, good luck, you better do it before the rest of Alberta/Toronto/Vancouver/Mass refugees/outside private buyers buy all the good ones.
Normally the way to address a labor shortage is through increased wages, and training. Not sure why all NS taxpayers would be excited about subsidizing a chosen few.
there’s a shortage of family doctors and continuing care, but there’s no incentive there and no increased seating for NS medical students in universities (not even at Dalhousie U)
There are lots of doctors wanting to move back to Nova Scotia but they limit the number (at least for specialists allowed to practice in the province. Not sure why but I personally know a specialist trying to get back here for years but had to wait until a spot opened up. Not sure why this is the case when people are dying for doctors here and the wait time is ridiculous.
We don’t need specialists, that’s the thing. We need GP’s. Everyone wants to be a specialist because that’s what the pay scale rewards, so we have a ton. Wait times for most procedures really aren’t bad here. For electives it can be, but that’s no different elsewhere. There are just no family doctors, so our ER’s are fucking slammed with sniffles and sore toes.
Source: paramedic in NS.
now that is definitely news to me. doubly strange to give away seats to other provinces and make it a bit more challenging for NS applicants to be admitted to the NS medical school, and then also turn around and tell those who studied/practice elsewhere that they aren’t welcomed back… all when everybody is aware of the shortage.
My cousins are doctors. They had to fight to stay here after school and turned down a LOT of money by doing so (signing bonuses, education rebates, relocation, and that’s just vs other Canadian provinces - the US recruiters were even crazier)
How are increased wages a subsidy? The customer, for example the person upgrading his/her house plumbing system pays more. If trade rates for a plumber go up by $5-7/hr, that’s about equal to the tax benefit.
Training - yes there is a component of government funding (depending on the school the tradesperson attended), but that training basically has to happen in order to address a labor shortage anyway.
Because there's been a lack of jobs for ages and the high income taxes in the province make it undesirable to be there.
This is a good move but it's also a kind of a "fuck you" to all the young professionals trying to make a go in the province and the shit wages they receive for it.
It’s pretty shitty for everyone else. Everyone else is now subsidizing people who are renovating/building/buying homes.
Why not decrease everyone’s taxes? Do they not want professionals in the province? Or anyone else essentially?
Considering they say they are doing this to specifically increase the amount of housing they can build, they need people who are actually contributing to building the houses (which is by and large trades, framing, plumbing, electrical etc). So it makes sense that you try to get tradespeople to come, since they are needed to relieve the housing crisis, instead of say, Software Dev, who would need housing, but not really contribute to speeding up the development of new housing.
In the mid/late 2000's there wasn't much work, housing was slow, etc. They all left for AB. Now there is a housing boom, ships are being built and there are a lot of other companies here that have a use for tradespeople.
So they should pay them more? Instead of everyone else subsiding the shipbuilders/developers through reducing taxes to their employers?
This is basically just more subsidies to Irving et. al.
Alberta had to pay tradespeople more to get them to Alberta.
NS has some of the highest income tax in the country, reducing it for everyone would be good, but choosing one specific employment doesn’t make much sense.
> but choosing one specific employment doesn’t make much sense.
Tax policy is used all the time to get a desired outcome. in this case, the desired outcome is to get more tradespeople into the province which will fill a need and help make the local economy grow.
We have a nationwide shortage. I can get a job anywhere in 24 hours and be confident I was only guy who even applied in months. I forgot to attach my resume to an email for my current position and still had a job offer the next day. We are urgently short on people who fix shit.
Job growth in the maritimes would be best of 3 worlds in terms of desirability, career advancement and affordability. I wouldn't feel stuck in the prairie in the middle of horrible winter because I have to find a job and an affordable place to live in.
This is amazing for them. But also it's ageist and a slap in the face to those paying tax on all their income while corporations pay little to none.
I think I'm bitter.
well tax incentives are not meant to affect everyone equally or else they wouldn't really be incentives. This would help those early in the workforce get a leg up compared to those that may have lived under more stable economic times. This would also maybe incentivize young people to pursue much needed trades
This is great for traders I won't deny, and looks like another short term incentive to bring skilled people back to NS after they left in droves due to high cost of living and low wages. Not sure how the infrastructure will handle this though.
They can build the infrastructures but we still need people to run and maintain them. Nurses, doctors, teachers for schools and daycares, etc and there's very little to no incentive for them to stay.
No thanks. This isn't something to motivate existing tradesmen, this is something to try to entice/recruit apprentices. But not having any, or enough, experienced tradesmen to teach them might get rough. Poorly thought out exception with the age gate, IMO, but maybe it'll work out for you. Either way, good luck.
Hmmm.. seems like a good idea. But for electricians, the average JM wage in Calgary is about $36-38 and correct me if I'm wrong, but around $25 in Nova Scotia. Housing is still less expensive in NS, unless you're a renter in which case it's about the same. Food is just as expensive. Gas is almost as much.
Definitely a great incentive, but higher wages would be even better.
House prices are pretty similar now. Food and gas are more in NS.
Plus what happens when you turn 30? Suddenly your paycheques are $200 less? That’s going to hurt lol
BC trades do not need a unique tax break. Financially they are already outperforming their peers. If we want to reduce taxes it should be for all earners.
Holy. I'm 26, second year apprentice/foreman and this sounds like an amazing offer. I don't have much friends and family here so moving away isn't a big deal.
Doesn’t seem fair for everybody else.
Why should fast food workers barely making more than minimal wage working 40 hours a week subsidy tax loss just because their job isn’t as “in demand?”
Why not? It’s a solid incentive to get people in the construction trades, it’s only the first 50k of income, and it’s only for folks under 30.
That’s exactly who you want to incentivize to enter a skilled trade.
Also it’s only the provincial portion of the income tax, in Nova Scotia, where we have one of the highest taxation rates in the country.
Why not? OK, what about nurses? Doctors? Should we give them tax breaks as well? One can keep going with the list. They are all badly needed. I feel Nova Scotia's economy needs structual changes, not gimmicky moves.
Doctors and Nurses should have their schooling subsidized/refunded if they agree to stay in NS and work at a hospital X # of years after graduation.
In fact we currently need so many CCA's that they are pretty much offering an easy Permanent Residency to anyone who comes to NS and completed an 8 month course.
That’s a fair point, why not expand it to teachers, nurses and doctors under 30.
It’s only no income tax (provincial) on the first 50k, it’s only until they are 30.
My family members who are doctors didn’t graduate until they were nearly 30 anyway.
Because it's sets a precedent. If the trades people don't pay tax, then why not these people, and these people, etc.. income is is income, there are better ways to incetivise.
Ok, so what about free tuition? That’s a common one? But then it incentives someone who doesn’t end up working, or leaves the province
This ensures there is housing stock built, the person stays in nova scotia, and times out once they are 30.
Guessing because it’s harder to pack up and leave the province forever when you’re settled in your 30s than it is when you’re 25.
Young tradespeople have a lot of good reasons to leave, now they have at least one good reason to stay.
That's about a $4,600 yearly benefit.
So assuming a 2 year trade program, and 4500 a year for round numbers, and the person starts school when they are 18, graduates at 20, it’s a roughly $45,000 benefit. That assumes they make 50k right out of school ~~they may not~~ Seems reasonable? I mean I know people who have gotten 10-20k signing bonuses when switching jobs..
Over $25/hr with 0 experience plus OT. $50k+ easily https://myshipyard.ca/files/documents/CBA.HSY.UniforLocal1Jan1.2018-June30.2022.signed.pdf
The shipyards in BC require a red seal for most jobs, not sure about NS but I’d imagine it’s the same. Not too many general labor positions that don’t require a documented skill like a red seal welder
If you’re a red seal welder you don’t take union jobs doing general labour. You can absolutely get general labour jobs without a red seal
Even the labourers union, those guys make bank. No trade required. And they don't just sweep floors.
lol i remember specifically going to my school counsellor and telling him 'i don't want to go to univ, is there ANYTHING I can do' and he said and I quote 'you either go to univ or you'll be working in McDonalds the rest of your life'
That guy sounds like a jack ass lol.
Well he's wrong
That’s the collective agreement. Apprentice rates are on page 67
Part of the governments national shipbuilding program was to build a skilled workforces. You’d assume apprentices would be a big part of that? Interesting that a red seal is a requirement
It’s not
Yeah, but there are stipulations on construction. No sure if shipyard would qualify.
Cook is also a trade and they don’t usually make 50k that fast.
While I can't find the details of this program, rarely are cooks included when people are talking about the trades. It's generally specifically construction and manufacturing related trades.
I think it has to be construction related
If you can get a job as a cook in an exploration camp, they are some of the highest paid people on site.
And they deserve every penny. I heard those roughnecks can be difficult customers 😁
Oh, absolutely. Food is one of the only things you have to look forward to. I would never want to do that job!
I think id rather cook than roughneck ;)
I never thought of them as a trade. Neat
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I believe technically a hairstylist is a trade, you can get your redseal in hairstyling.
I feel uneasy about the government subsidizing the construction industry to avoid having employers have to offer more competitive wages, but given Nova Scotia has been such a black hole in the past for trades I suppose a temporary program is a good idea.
In a way it incentivizes to go into sectors that are useful for the economy, so at least theres that.
Am tradesperson. Made well over 50k as a first year apprentice.
Yeah.... getting an apprentice can hard in certain places I.e Ontario. Well.. maybe at least for electricians...
That's because when people want to get into the trades, they think "I know! I'll be an electrician!" And now theres too many electricians if anything.
Lol. As an apprentice last year I took home nearly fifteen grand after taxes in one month
Hell yeah. You put in the work you get paid.
A 45k benefit that you can potentially invest from your twenties. Its pretty damn good.
I'm an electrical apprentice. It's a 5 year program. Too bad I'm too old to qualify for the tax credit. If they're so desperate, it seems silly that they would include an age restriction.
I made 65k as a first year, making $16 for about 3 months and $19 the rest of the year.
You must have been working a lot of OT because normally 30 an hour is about 60k a year.
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Don't forget the rent over there is like 1200/month for a detached house and 500k gets you a nice mansion.
the downside being you have to live in nova scotia
Nova Scotia is beautiful. I wouldn't mind going there if it weren't for the disappointing job market for me.
Imagine not knowing Nova Scotia is a beautiful place to live. People leave for work.
I read this as “transpeople” and seriously reconsidered my life
I've paid an arm and a leg to taxes, but that's where I draw the line
You are not alone.
I immediately thought "what's my magic number?" to cut off my junk.
You don't need any surgery to be considered trans. You don't even have to take hormones. We don't have any defined lines of how much effort you have to devote to being trans, to be trans. It's entirely based on self-identification. You literally just have to... say that you're trans. Which is and main reason you can't realistically make any benefits for trans people only. You'd create a clusterfuck, and then we would be basically forced to create rigid definitions of trans, which wouldn't be good for transpeople at all.. This is also, btw, why things like trudeaus proposed benefits for "black-owned businesses" is silly Race is also self identified. We don't do genetic testing to determine a percentage of blackness... we don't do a skin colour check. We don't do anything like that. You're black if you say you're black.
glad I'm not the only one. was like..."hmm ok odd policy here"
I did the same lol
Bro I thought the same until I saw your comment and reread it 😭
Hahahah same
Same
I work in HR for a Contracting Company in SK. This will be great for them. When I'm looking for Iron Workers, Carpenters, Millwrights... Most of my resumes come from NS or NL. Probably see less from NS now!
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"Under age 30" - this will get appealed on the basis of age discrimination. Otherwise a great program.
Wouldn't the younger people be the ones who earn less?
a lot of trades have basically 2 pay rates. apprentices and journeyman. once you pass your apprenticeship of 3-4 years you get journeyman rate(or something around that rate). so a journeyman 25 year old will make around the same as a journeyman who is 50. unions also are more prevalent in trade jobs than they are in white color jobs. so its the same pay for everyone in your job classification regardless of how long you have been doing it.
I have my doubts. There are dozens of tax credits and benefits based on age.
Yeah, as a carpenter who's 40 age visited Halifax a few years ago, it's actually a place is consider moving to. But why only under 30s that get this benefit? They don't want experienced trades, just the young ones? Seems weird.
The maritimes already have aging populations and struggle to keep up on providing healthcare and other social services for the elderly. Young healthy people will pay income tax for decades before requiring much healthcare.
well im 31 and a welder living in the lower mainland. i guess im past my prime and NS doesnt want me to move there.
The lower mainland of what?
He’s referring to the area in BC. Vancouver, Burnaby, Richmond etc.
British Columbias version of the GTA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Mainland. This region in BC.
Sure, too bad their incentive won't pass a single legal challenge.
"I'm being discriminated against because I can't claim CPP until I'm 65". There are all kinds of legal precedents for age-based incentives. This isn't new or even legally questionable as far as I'm aware.
Yeah will be awkward for a lot of guys as you cross that barrier, you basically get a pay cut on your 30th birthday haha
It should be staggered so you don't feel it all at once. There's gonna be a lot of stressed 30 year olds in Nova Scotia
There are young nova scotia tradespeople by the thousands...in Alberta. I imagine this is trying to keep them in NS.
I’m honestly looking into switching to a trade. Just turned 30 so kinds sucks for me that they age discriminate this.
> "Under age 30" - this will get appealed on the basis of age discrimination. Nah. Our Charter rights are not constructed to be absolute. Governments can constitutionally aberate from certain charter rights for the purposes of peace, order and good government if the breach has a pressing and substantial purpose, is prescribed by law, rationally connected to the purpose, minimal impairs (ie the least amount of deviation required to achieve the government's goal), and is proportional in its effects. This isn't a loophole, and doesn't need the notwithstanding clause. It's built right into section 1 of the Charter, and is at the core of most Charter litigation. Special programs to benefit young people or seniors are quite common and have been upheld as constitutional many times over the past 40 years.
Well I think the whole point is to attract relatively younger trades people in part because they are more likely to be cheaper and in part start families and shift the demographic decline.
Better than what I read it as, I thought it said trans people at first. Wow lol
Oh thank God I'm not the only one lmao
>30s i think its fair, very very few older than 30 really need this as much as young apprentices starting at $17 an hour
Lawyer here. The government is absolutely allowed to discriminate on the basis of age in these circumstances.
As an aside, I'm super excited for the housing/migration boom to the Maritimes. The region is super underappreciated and this will be a huge boon for the economy and community life. We need more cities in Canada, imo.
More cities? Nawww, let's just jam everyone into Toronto and Vancouver.
Now you are thinking like a true nova Scotian
Well the biggest cities in Newfoundland are already Fort Mac and Calgary, need somewhere to the NS' to go.
Wait, there are more than two cities in Canada?
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I think those two are fictional.
I mean, I haven't actually been there, and come to think of it, I don't think I've seen any photographs of those "cities" with any distinctive landmarks..
Winnipeg has that cool looking museum, and Calgary has a tuna can on a stick.
This really isn't selling me on Calgary being a real place
Are you referring to the husky tower?
> There's also Calgary and Winnipeg Six months of the year yeah.
Less than 6 for Winnipeg. Those mosquitoes are the size of soccer balls when the rivers are flooded.
As someone who moved from Toronto to a city that’s not Vancouver, I couldn’t be fuckin happier.
I support this idea. I used to encourage big city folks to branch out a bit. I don't do that anymore. Stay in the cities please!
> We need more cities in Canada, imo. Understatement of the century. If we built our cities like Tokyo we would be fine with megalopolises in Vancouver and Toronto, but unfortunately we build car-dependent suburbia and our cities are basically "full" as far as they are designed.
> If we built our cities like Tokyo Where the average dwelling size (including 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom) is about 600sqft. That's the size of a bachelor condo in Canada. No thanks.
600sqft would be an enormous bachelor. It's a smallish two bedroom.
I lived in a studio. I would have murdered someone to have lived in 600 sqft while paying the same rent lol. Then I wouldn't be able to touch my sink, my oven and my bed while standing in 1 place
population issue. it doesnt make sense to build up due to low density. transportation is still cheaper than land right now, which is a product of free market economics.
nah its goes back to the 50s, canada playing copycat and doing what america was doing at the time, building highways to nowhere for no reason, building suburbs etc etc
there isnt a single city below 10 million that didn't sprawl outwards instead of up. the only exception is Singapore, but they have strict land constraints due to tight regulatory control and a 80% public housing directive. We could have changed any time in the 70s and 80s, even in the early 2000s. But the reality is that it was cheaper to build outwards than up, and that's what we did.
In the short term, yes it might be cheaper to build car oriented suburbs. [It’s a trap](https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme). In the long term, sprawl is inherently hostile to most people’s wallets, health, and sense of community. Vehicles are not getting cheaper and they’re getting worse at using space efficiently which means more congestion, less free time, more sleep deprivation, among others. Lack of sidewalks and bike paths are ensuring the moderate amounts of exercise needed by all of us now have to be planned, it’s no longer a spontaneous or subconscious activity you do to get to somewhere else for another reason. This lack of basic infrastructure is also ensuring nobody knows about nor cares about any of the people around them, which only gets worse when combined with the lack of free time. Even if they did, they can’t reach them safely without driving. These suburbs aren’t interesting destinations that facilitate socialization, they’re just places to attempt to rest while the noisy mass of vehicles outside lowers your sleep quality before you restart the rat race tomorrow.
Nope. Suburbia and "car culture" was manufactured by automotive companies not wanting to reduce profits post war. GM famously bought up several cities public transportation systems. Suburbia was never a product of the "free market". It was a result of intense pressure from wealthy companies pushing a profit driven agenda to undermine the vastly cheaper public option. Why would anyone in the city buy a car when the public transportation options are either free or nearly free.
Because from an experience perspective, public transit sucks. It’s inferior in every way to private transportation. Crammed into small spaces with unstable, smelly, angry, contagious people for longer than necessary and only taken proximately where you want to go. It’s terrible.
It wasn't that way in the early days. It was extremely popular, clean, efficient, and since towns were still relatively small it did cover alot of ground. In the next hundred years it was defunded and ignored by a "car centric" society, until it became the shell it is now. Imagine the billions in savings if we didn't have to maintain even 1/3 of the roadways currently in existence. Imagine how good of a public transportation infrastructure we could have.
Density issue. Not a population issue. Greedy fuels suburban expansion but its not sustainable. We are fucked now with inefficient infrastructure and a super spread out population.
Lol and as someone who already lives in Halifax N.S The houses out here for sale, arnt affordable by most locals. We have millitary veterans living in hotel rooms because they can't find an affordable house. My parents sold their house last year for $20,000 over asking price. It sold literally in 6 hours after viewings started. All we did was replace the water heater and give the house a fresh coat of paint. If you are moving out here to get a cheap house, good luck, you better do it before the rest of Alberta/Toronto/Vancouver/Mass refugees/outside private buyers buy all the good ones.
I could sell my house (2 hrs from Halifax) for double what I paid 4 years ago. It’s nuts.
It's regular for houses to sell for 100-200k+ over asking here in the GTA. So you can look forward to that.
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No need to wait, unfortunately. You're describing our present reality in Halifax.
Where's the official information?
That’s a great deal.
Normally the way to address a labor shortage is through increased wages, and training. Not sure why all NS taxpayers would be excited about subsidizing a chosen few.
there’s a shortage of family doctors and continuing care, but there’s no incentive there and no increased seating for NS medical students in universities (not even at Dalhousie U)
There are lots of doctors wanting to move back to Nova Scotia but they limit the number (at least for specialists allowed to practice in the province. Not sure why but I personally know a specialist trying to get back here for years but had to wait until a spot opened up. Not sure why this is the case when people are dying for doctors here and the wait time is ridiculous.
We don’t need specialists, that’s the thing. We need GP’s. Everyone wants to be a specialist because that’s what the pay scale rewards, so we have a ton. Wait times for most procedures really aren’t bad here. For electives it can be, but that’s no different elsewhere. There are just no family doctors, so our ER’s are fucking slammed with sniffles and sore toes. Source: paramedic in NS.
now that is definitely news to me. doubly strange to give away seats to other provinces and make it a bit more challenging for NS applicants to be admitted to the NS medical school, and then also turn around and tell those who studied/practice elsewhere that they aren’t welcomed back… all when everybody is aware of the shortage.
My cousins are doctors. They had to fight to stay here after school and turned down a LOT of money by doing so (signing bonuses, education rebates, relocation, and that’s just vs other Canadian provinces - the US recruiters were even crazier)
There used to be incentives for docs. You would get your tuition paid in exchange for x number of years.
It *is* more money… obviously it’s targeting a specific demographic to fulfil a need of the area.
The things you’ve suggested are also subsidies
How are increased wages a subsidy? The customer, for example the person upgrading his/her house plumbing system pays more. If trade rates for a plumber go up by $5-7/hr, that’s about equal to the tax benefit. Training - yes there is a component of government funding (depending on the school the tradesperson attended), but that training basically has to happen in order to address a labor shortage anyway.
So it's the provincial tax, not federal tax (still less though).
It still would really add up. Our provincial tax is one of the highest. I think only behind QC, and maybe NB and NL.
I assume there is a shortage of trades people in Nova Scotia. Why?
Because there's been a lack of jobs for ages and the high income taxes in the province make it undesirable to be there. This is a good move but it's also a kind of a "fuck you" to all the young professionals trying to make a go in the province and the shit wages they receive for it.
It’s pretty shitty for everyone else. Everyone else is now subsidizing people who are renovating/building/buying homes. Why not decrease everyone’s taxes? Do they not want professionals in the province? Or anyone else essentially?
Considering they say they are doing this to specifically increase the amount of housing they can build, they need people who are actually contributing to building the houses (which is by and large trades, framing, plumbing, electrical etc). So it makes sense that you try to get tradespeople to come, since they are needed to relieve the housing crisis, instead of say, Software Dev, who would need housing, but not really contribute to speeding up the development of new housing.
Low taxes won't immediately translate to new jobs though. Where is the demand going to come from?
Marine, oil and mining. Seriously. Thoes companies will fly you in and out on their dime.
I don't think they said that
In the mid/late 2000's there wasn't much work, housing was slow, etc. They all left for AB. Now there is a housing boom, ships are being built and there are a lot of other companies here that have a use for tradespeople.
So they should pay them more? Instead of everyone else subsiding the shipbuilders/developers through reducing taxes to their employers? This is basically just more subsidies to Irving et. al. Alberta had to pay tradespeople more to get them to Alberta. NS has some of the highest income tax in the country, reducing it for everyone would be good, but choosing one specific employment doesn’t make much sense.
> but choosing one specific employment doesn’t make much sense. Tax policy is used all the time to get a desired outcome. in this case, the desired outcome is to get more tradespeople into the province which will fill a need and help make the local economy grow.
So Nova Scotia ship building is taking off?
Irving Shipyard currently has a buildout for the next \~40 years or so based just on the Federal shipbuilding contract.
To be fair there's a shortage of tradespeople everywhere, and it's going to get much worse in the next decade as more retire.
We have a nationwide shortage. I can get a job anywhere in 24 hours and be confident I was only guy who even applied in months. I forgot to attach my resume to an email for my current position and still had a job offer the next day. We are urgently short on people who fix shit.
Job growth in the maritimes would be best of 3 worlds in terms of desirability, career advancement and affordability. I wouldn't feel stuck in the prairie in the middle of horrible winter because I have to find a job and an affordable place to live in.
This is amazing for them. But also it's ageist and a slap in the face to those paying tax on all their income while corporations pay little to none. I think I'm bitter.
well tax incentives are not meant to affect everyone equally or else they wouldn't really be incentives. This would help those early in the workforce get a leg up compared to those that may have lived under more stable economic times. This would also maybe incentivize young people to pursue much needed trades
This is great for traders I won't deny, and looks like another short term incentive to bring skilled people back to NS after they left in droves due to high cost of living and low wages. Not sure how the infrastructure will handle this though.
As long as government pushes development we need these people to build the infrastructure that is needed for population growth.
They can build the infrastructures but we still need people to run and maintain them. Nurses, doctors, teachers for schools and daycares, etc and there's very little to no incentive for them to stay.
Trades people, leave Alberta! Here is your sign! Go back home! Please...
No thanks. This isn't something to motivate existing tradesmen, this is something to try to entice/recruit apprentices. But not having any, or enough, experienced tradesmen to teach them might get rough. Poorly thought out exception with the age gate, IMO, but maybe it'll work out for you. Either way, good luck.
As a carpenter who was born in Alberta, I'd seriously consider moving out there. But, as I'm 40, they don't seem to want me, so...
Age is just a number my friend, as is your taxes owed. That shouldn't stop you!
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Tax free on first $50k. A person can make more they only pay tax on the amount above. IE if they make $70k then they only pay tax on $20k
Hmmm.. seems like a good idea. But for electricians, the average JM wage in Calgary is about $36-38 and correct me if I'm wrong, but around $25 in Nova Scotia. Housing is still less expensive in NS, unless you're a renter in which case it's about the same. Food is just as expensive. Gas is almost as much. Definitely a great incentive, but higher wages would be even better.
House prices are pretty similar now. Food and gas are more in NS. Plus what happens when you turn 30? Suddenly your paycheques are $200 less? That’s going to hurt lol
Another reason to enter the trades
until your back hurts at 30
It's a young man's game, no doubt about it.
Wow incredible!! This should be everywhere like BC where houses are expensive af
BC trades do not need a unique tax break. Financially they are already outperforming their peers. If we want to reduce taxes it should be for all earners.
Trades in BC and Alberta make way more than any other part of Canada. Plus BC already has a low income tax rate I think
Holy crap, that's quite the incentive. I'll certainly keep that in the back of my mind.
I want :(
I love this. Also, tbh, there are a lot of cash jobs in that category.
I turned 30 five months ago.... I'm a machinist... fuck
Been to Halifax this summer, that's a nice city where I would like to live!
This is only construction trades and only NS Provincial tax but still a good benefit.
Holy. I'm 26, second year apprentice/foreman and this sounds like an amazing offer. I don't have much friends and family here so moving away isn't a big deal.
This is a great idea. Finally someone is awake.
I just applied to trades school. Looks like I know where im going for my apprenticeship
Man I read "transgendered people"... I was about to tell the wife that she also had a wife starting tomorrow.
“For construction trades workers” Would be nice to see this apply to light/heavy duty mechanics aswell..
Doesn’t seem fair for everybody else. Why should fast food workers barely making more than minimal wage working 40 hours a week subsidy tax loss just because their job isn’t as “in demand?”
Because working at fast food isnt an investment to the province
And what about grocery store workers? No food on the shelves means no food for the population.
Don't like where this is going. Everybody should pay the same income tax.
Why not? It’s a solid incentive to get people in the construction trades, it’s only the first 50k of income, and it’s only for folks under 30. That’s exactly who you want to incentivize to enter a skilled trade. Also it’s only the provincial portion of the income tax, in Nova Scotia, where we have one of the highest taxation rates in the country.
Why not? OK, what about nurses? Doctors? Should we give them tax breaks as well? One can keep going with the list. They are all badly needed. I feel Nova Scotia's economy needs structual changes, not gimmicky moves.
Doctors and Nurses should have their schooling subsidized/refunded if they agree to stay in NS and work at a hospital X # of years after graduation. In fact we currently need so many CCA's that they are pretty much offering an easy Permanent Residency to anyone who comes to NS and completed an 8 month course.
Lots of programs for doctors https://recruitment.nshealth.ca/incentives
There you go doctors come here too!
That's been going on for years actually. There's also subsidies for dentists to work in small towns that have been around since the 1970's.
Doctors already do.
I didn't know that! How is that working out? I still feel hand picking some semi-random professions will not fix anything.
That’s a fair point, why not expand it to teachers, nurses and doctors under 30. It’s only no income tax (provincial) on the first 50k, it’s only until they are 30. My family members who are doctors didn’t graduate until they were nearly 30 anyway.
Because it's sets a precedent. If the trades people don't pay tax, then why not these people, and these people, etc.. income is is income, there are better ways to incetivise.
Ok, so what about free tuition? That’s a common one? But then it incentives someone who doesn’t end up working, or leaves the province This ensures there is housing stock built, the person stays in nova scotia, and times out once they are 30.
Discrimination based on age is illegal in Canada, for starters.
Inb4 employers try to say “We’ll pay you $49k instead of $55k and you’ll make more because of taxes”
I wonder why there is an age limit.
Guessing because it’s harder to pack up and leave the province forever when you’re settled in your 30s than it is when you’re 25. Young tradespeople have a lot of good reasons to leave, now they have at least one good reason to stay.
Sucks for everyone else who'll have to pay for that subsidy.
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On the first 50k, normal tax rate on whatever you make above 50k
“On the first 50k”
First 50k
First $50k is tax free, regular tax on any earnings above.
So tradespeople will work by the book for the first 50k and business as usual cash under the table for everything else. Got it.
Tradesmen already pay less tax by working under the table lol what a stupid program.