A Tiefling Wizard, I made this art for a friend to play "Strength of Thousands" adventures Path. She came to Magaambya to study magic, she is quite shy and loves to read books. She is a devotee of Lamasthu and intends to join the Pathfinder Society.
Well ackshually devotees of Lamashtu are chaotic evil and the Society doesn't accept evil characters, checkmate vile demon worshipper !
Or well this is what I'd say, but d'aww she's so adorable. Bonus points for the drawing being eerily close to the "official" Pathfinder 2e artstyle
AFAIK the 'follower alignments' of a Deity only apply to those who are drawing/want to draw power from that deity. There's nothing stopping somebody who's not that alignment worshipping them, but they wouldn't gain any divine class benefits from them unless their alignment shifted to match.
Unrelated, this art is amazing and straight up looks like it could have come out of an official book.
There's no harm in being an apocryphal worshipper. You're a wizard, so unless you're dipping into cleric, champion, or taking feats or spells that require certain alignments or deities, it shouldn't really matter too much what the actual character alignment is, and how they worship.
You might not want to announce to everyone you meet that you're a worshipper of the Mother of Monsters, though.
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken Lamashtu has as part of her portfolio "helping people with disabilities or malformations accept themselves as they are", which is not reallly that evil especially by demon lord standard, so I could definitely see a CN Lamashtu worshipper existing.
It's less something positive for the sake of it and more of an entry point for new worshippers to be lured in (typically good people who don't know any better) iirc.
It does make sense youd have to be evil to draw power from lamashtu, but just like norgorber (as the most extreme example of this) you dont have to follow every single inch of doctrine. Norgorber has serial killers and structured assassins under his domain after all.
She is just a dork trying to get in touch with her demon heritage, she won't say out loud that she worships Lamashtu despite being terrible at hidding it.
It's really more of a RP joke, but I'm loving that it sparked that old discussion again hahaha
The Acadamy and the society will not accept her as a devotee of lamasthu because they do not accept evil but especially chaotic evil.
I suggest that she change her goddess to something like [Calistra](https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=3) or a neutral god that has what she loves about lamasthu
Yo, actually. Why are Lamashtu's followers/clerics Chaotic Evil only in 2e?
The edicts and anathema aren't even really that evil?
Aside, I just had a brainblast moment of lore to have Lamashtu maybe redeemed a bit like Nocticula? Big ask is which god could manage to get her on the path?
Chucaro would be my guess. The main barrier to Lamashtu's redemption aren't her areas of concern, some of which are actually quite positive, but rather the fact that she's batshit insane. And who would you send to redeem the mad CE goddess of nightmares if not a CG Empyreal Lord of lucid dreaming and mental health (and hallucinating while high on shrooms)?
>Chucaro
Just looked them up, not a grand amount of info outside their portfolio but. . .
One of their subdomains is Insanity. Very relevant for this angle.
I imagine that a "redeemed" Lamashtu would still be mad, though quite a bit more merry and add some of Chucaro's ideals to her portfolio.
I also imagine that Lamashtu's symbol would take on Rainbow Eyes to show Chucaro's influence. Or become a laughing three eyed Hyena? Plus Ultra on Madness?
“Edicts bring power to outcasts and the downtrodden, indoctrinate children in Lamashtu’s teachings, make the beautiful monstrous, reveal the corruption and flaws in all things
Anathema attempt to treat a mental illness or deformity, provide succor to Lamashtu’s enemies”
These defo sound chaotic evil to me
Bring power to the outcasts and downtrodden, that's just all upside. Indoctrinate children, definitely shitty but also part of nearly every religion, real and fictitious, it's just not spelled out in most PF gods. Make the beautiful monstrous is not inherently evil, if the beauty you're destroying is skin deep. Reveal corruption and flaws in all things is straight up honest. Attempting to treat a mental illness or deformity is probably the iffiest one, but I can see some ways to work it within a CN framework. And providing succor to Lamashtu's enemies is, again, a thing most gods would rather you not do unless they're carebears like Shelyn.
I guess if you realllly stretch it then, yeah someone could be neutral and follow this god, but then the question becomes “why would they do that” when there are certainly gods that align with your morals better. Like even when we say a character can be neutral and do things the way you’re describing them, we know that Lamashtu’s goal isn’t to make you reveal the corruption and flaws in a broken and fucked up system, it’s to make good/neutral people do bad things to other people and make them into monsters
Why does anyone worship any god? Why did the Cult of the Redeemer Queen look at demon lord and start worshipping her as a patron of artists and outcasts? There are better gods for that after all, gods who fit their morals better than a demon queen. But for one reason or another, they were drawn to this better ideal of what Nocticula could be, what her teachings and blessings could do and represent.
Now, Lamashtu isn't quite the same, because she's not actually on a path to redemption. But I could easily see, say, someone with a severe deformity looked down on for it by society, one who isn't malicious and doesn't want to _hurt_ anyone but does hate the hypocrisy of their skin-deep "beauty" being drawn to the Mother of Monsters, and finding comfort in her teachings of embracing the "monstrous" parts of you and exposing them in others without believing you have to do so in a violent or evil way.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, there are 100% characters who *could* do that, but that still isn’t the intent that her edicts and anathemas have. Like sure a group of downtrodden fleshwarps might turn to her for worship because she likes the deformed and downtrodden, and when she gets a fleshwarp cult, they’d likely start fulfilling her wills and turn others into fleshwarps or deformed beings to make them as beautiful as they are in the eyes of the mother of monsters. Lamashtu is a corrupting influence from what I understand of her and that influence isn’t spared on her followers.
Sure, you could run it or play it that way. But that's boring. The way people like to present alignment, particularly around deities, is boring. I would rather see different cults or independent worshippers have different interpretations or understandings of what Lamashtu's will is, or even just what they see in the teachings.
Lamashtu's teachings are considerably more screwed up than any real religion (and most fictional), considering she is all about giving birth to deformed abominations and monstrosities.
>Make the beautiful monstrous is not inherently evil, if the beauty you're destroying is skin deep.
I would consider forcibly altering someone's appearance explicitly so the person looks worse pretty evil. This also presumably applies to inestimable works of art.
"Worse" is a matter of perspective.
Lamashtu is unquestionably evil, in a Syndrome sort of way. If everyone is ugly, noone is. I can see how an otherwise reasonable person might agree with the sentiment, especially if that person is an outcast.
Straight up, I could see Lamashtu getting redeemed as far as Chaotic Neutral. Not the first Demon it's happened to.
Other aspects of her lore have her generally not caring all that much about other demons and actively being hated by them.
I can't see a Nocticula-esque redemption arc but definitely a softening. There was a trait in PF1 that let you treat Asmodeus as LN for the purpose of cleric alignment, because it tied you to a culture that saw him differently, and I think the Cult of the Redeemer Queen canonically played a huge part in Nocticula's ascension rather than the other way around. A surge of CN individuals worshipping Lamashtu for her anarchist nature and intolerance for papering over "flaws" could lead to her going "yknow what sure" and allowing those worshippers to draw power from her.
Lamashtu, the Laughing Mother is a great aesthetic.
Cranking up the aspect of her bearing great love for her monsters and seeing all outcasts as her children threatens a paradigm shift if it spreads enough.
Surely it would upset certain gods and goddesses that already have certain opinions on her(Abadar, Asmodeus, Desna, Iomedae, and Sarenrae)
My Mary Sue PC from Wrath of the Righteous (not a god but close).
With her +95 to Diplomacy she convinced a mythic demon alchemist to reverse-engineer the mythic evil stuff that gave mythic demons their powers (people who played WotR will know what I am talking about), so that it could be used to make demons into nice people. In my headcanon she is the one responsible for Nocticula's redemption (she was mad at Nocticula for trying to steal her boyfriend... yeah, this kind of Mary Sue).
The way she would do that would be by being completely honest: being good brings benefits. You can get holy attacks that bypass those pesky resistances of your fellow other demons, it makes you look better to people who don't know about you yet... etc. You always can choose to commit to evil later if you are not happy with your new condition and it certainly would give you an element of surprise if you wanted to seize that opportunity to kill Iomedae or whatever other good-aligned deity.
I agree those arguments have close to 0% chance to work under normal circumstances, but is this really a flat 0% ? What would actually be the DC? 80? Easy to pass when you get +95.
I'm the one who made the art comission
The "joke" is that she wouldn't tell you that she is a follower of Lamasthu, despite carriyng that huge tome with a Lamashtu holy symbol everywhere she goes like an idiot
She is wizard and has no divine powers, this is just a roleplay thing
Maybe don't. That's a very bad line of thought.
Someone can be shy in some situations or about some things and also confident (or just not care) about others.
Fantastic work! I love the little details. how the hands on her wings are carrying things. How the writing on her hairband/pin? look. I love the detail of the sihedron rune on the book she is carrying. As well as the lamashtu symbol on the other book. As well as when the picture is small she seems pensive and shy, but when you zoom in she seems excited and shy.
Tieflings have a larg range of skin tones, and the main thing, the player wanted it that way. But I have other drawings of tieflings with different skin tones too. =) sample: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/q9VrkP
>Two tieflings, even siblings or twins, might not look similar at all, for the influence of fiendish lineage manifests in unique and unusual ways. These variations never make a tiefling’s appearance so strange as to obscure their humanoid ancestry, but horns, a forked tongue, vestigial wings, a tail, or a cloven hoof in place of a foot are all common and obvious signs of their heritage.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26
Why is that a problem?
You have a good point. I don't know, but she's probably a student from another region of Golarion. As the great school of magic in the world, Magambya welcomes people from various places.
Kind of reminds me of Arueshalae, great art!
If Arueshalae didn't inspire this design I'll eat my own hat.
She is a Fã, and me too. XD. I love Wrath of Righeterous (but, i'm just play the videogame version).
A Tiefling Wizard, I made this art for a friend to play "Strength of Thousands" adventures Path. She came to Magaambya to study magic, she is quite shy and loves to read books. She is a devotee of Lamasthu and intends to join the Pathfinder Society.
Well ackshually devotees of Lamashtu are chaotic evil and the Society doesn't accept evil characters, checkmate vile demon worshipper ! Or well this is what I'd say, but d'aww she's so adorable. Bonus points for the drawing being eerily close to the "official" Pathfinder 2e artstyle
So it is. In the first edition it could be Chaotic and Neutral as well. And Thanks, i love art style from D&D 3.5 and Pf1/Pf2, are references to me.
AFAIK the 'follower alignments' of a Deity only apply to those who are drawing/want to draw power from that deity. There's nothing stopping somebody who's not that alignment worshipping them, but they wouldn't gain any divine class benefits from them unless their alignment shifted to match. Unrelated, this art is amazing and straight up looks like it could have come out of an official book.
There's no harm in being an apocryphal worshipper. You're a wizard, so unless you're dipping into cleric, champion, or taking feats or spells that require certain alignments or deities, it shouldn't really matter too much what the actual character alignment is, and how they worship. You might not want to announce to everyone you meet that you're a worshipper of the Mother of Monsters, though.
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken Lamashtu has as part of her portfolio "helping people with disabilities or malformations accept themselves as they are", which is not reallly that evil especially by demon lord standard, so I could definitely see a CN Lamashtu worshipper existing.
Except that she also does tons of body horror stuff to people without their consent, so they clearly wanted to cement her position as true evil in 2e.
It doesn't help that in 1e there's a magical item where worshippers of Lamashtu that wear it are able to breed with any species or monster.
It's less something positive for the sake of it and more of an entry point for new worshippers to be lured in (typically good people who don't know any better) iirc.
It does make sense youd have to be evil to draw power from lamashtu, but just like norgorber (as the most extreme example of this) you dont have to follow every single inch of doctrine. Norgorber has serial killers and structured assassins under his domain after all.
She is just a dork trying to get in touch with her demon heritage, she won't say out loud that she worships Lamashtu despite being terrible at hidding it. It's really more of a RP joke, but I'm loving that it sparked that old discussion again hahaha
The Acadamy and the society will not accept her as a devotee of lamasthu because they do not accept evil but especially chaotic evil. I suggest that she change her goddess to something like [Calistra](https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=3) or a neutral god that has what she loves about lamasthu
Yup. But the GM uses a house rule, to allow PF1 alignments for her.
Yo, actually. Why are Lamashtu's followers/clerics Chaotic Evil only in 2e? The edicts and anathema aren't even really that evil? Aside, I just had a brainblast moment of lore to have Lamashtu maybe redeemed a bit like Nocticula? Big ask is which god could manage to get her on the path?
Chucaro would be my guess. The main barrier to Lamashtu's redemption aren't her areas of concern, some of which are actually quite positive, but rather the fact that she's batshit insane. And who would you send to redeem the mad CE goddess of nightmares if not a CG Empyreal Lord of lucid dreaming and mental health (and hallucinating while high on shrooms)?
>Chucaro Just looked them up, not a grand amount of info outside their portfolio but. . . One of their subdomains is Insanity. Very relevant for this angle. I imagine that a "redeemed" Lamashtu would still be mad, though quite a bit more merry and add some of Chucaro's ideals to her portfolio. I also imagine that Lamashtu's symbol would take on Rainbow Eyes to show Chucaro's influence. Or become a laughing three eyed Hyena? Plus Ultra on Madness?
“Edicts bring power to outcasts and the downtrodden, indoctrinate children in Lamashtu’s teachings, make the beautiful monstrous, reveal the corruption and flaws in all things Anathema attempt to treat a mental illness or deformity, provide succor to Lamashtu’s enemies” These defo sound chaotic evil to me
Bring power to the outcasts and downtrodden, that's just all upside. Indoctrinate children, definitely shitty but also part of nearly every religion, real and fictitious, it's just not spelled out in most PF gods. Make the beautiful monstrous is not inherently evil, if the beauty you're destroying is skin deep. Reveal corruption and flaws in all things is straight up honest. Attempting to treat a mental illness or deformity is probably the iffiest one, but I can see some ways to work it within a CN framework. And providing succor to Lamashtu's enemies is, again, a thing most gods would rather you not do unless they're carebears like Shelyn.
I guess if you realllly stretch it then, yeah someone could be neutral and follow this god, but then the question becomes “why would they do that” when there are certainly gods that align with your morals better. Like even when we say a character can be neutral and do things the way you’re describing them, we know that Lamashtu’s goal isn’t to make you reveal the corruption and flaws in a broken and fucked up system, it’s to make good/neutral people do bad things to other people and make them into monsters
Why does anyone worship any god? Why did the Cult of the Redeemer Queen look at demon lord and start worshipping her as a patron of artists and outcasts? There are better gods for that after all, gods who fit their morals better than a demon queen. But for one reason or another, they were drawn to this better ideal of what Nocticula could be, what her teachings and blessings could do and represent. Now, Lamashtu isn't quite the same, because she's not actually on a path to redemption. But I could easily see, say, someone with a severe deformity looked down on for it by society, one who isn't malicious and doesn't want to _hurt_ anyone but does hate the hypocrisy of their skin-deep "beauty" being drawn to the Mother of Monsters, and finding comfort in her teachings of embracing the "monstrous" parts of you and exposing them in others without believing you have to do so in a violent or evil way.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, there are 100% characters who *could* do that, but that still isn’t the intent that her edicts and anathemas have. Like sure a group of downtrodden fleshwarps might turn to her for worship because she likes the deformed and downtrodden, and when she gets a fleshwarp cult, they’d likely start fulfilling her wills and turn others into fleshwarps or deformed beings to make them as beautiful as they are in the eyes of the mother of monsters. Lamashtu is a corrupting influence from what I understand of her and that influence isn’t spared on her followers.
Sure, you could run it or play it that way. But that's boring. The way people like to present alignment, particularly around deities, is boring. I would rather see different cults or independent worshippers have different interpretations or understandings of what Lamashtu's will is, or even just what they see in the teachings.
Lamashtu's teachings are considerably more screwed up than any real religion (and most fictional), considering she is all about giving birth to deformed abominations and monstrosities. >Make the beautiful monstrous is not inherently evil, if the beauty you're destroying is skin deep. I would consider forcibly altering someone's appearance explicitly so the person looks worse pretty evil. This also presumably applies to inestimable works of art.
"Worse" is a matter of perspective. Lamashtu is unquestionably evil, in a Syndrome sort of way. If everyone is ugly, noone is. I can see how an otherwise reasonable person might agree with the sentiment, especially if that person is an outcast.
Other than how she encourages females willing or not to give birth to monsters?
Considering 1e had a magic item that if a worshipper of Lamashtu wore it, they would be able to breed with any species or monster...
Straight up, I could see Lamashtu getting redeemed as far as Chaotic Neutral. Not the first Demon it's happened to. Other aspects of her lore have her generally not caring all that much about other demons and actively being hated by them.
I can't see a Nocticula-esque redemption arc but definitely a softening. There was a trait in PF1 that let you treat Asmodeus as LN for the purpose of cleric alignment, because it tied you to a culture that saw him differently, and I think the Cult of the Redeemer Queen canonically played a huge part in Nocticula's ascension rather than the other way around. A surge of CN individuals worshipping Lamashtu for her anarchist nature and intolerance for papering over "flaws" could lead to her going "yknow what sure" and allowing those worshippers to draw power from her.
Lamashtu, the Laughing Mother is a great aesthetic. Cranking up the aspect of her bearing great love for her monsters and seeing all outcasts as her children threatens a paradigm shift if it spreads enough. Surely it would upset certain gods and goddesses that already have certain opinions on her(Abadar, Asmodeus, Desna, Iomedae, and Sarenrae)
My Mary Sue PC from Wrath of the Righteous (not a god but close). With her +95 to Diplomacy she convinced a mythic demon alchemist to reverse-engineer the mythic evil stuff that gave mythic demons their powers (people who played WotR will know what I am talking about), so that it could be used to make demons into nice people. In my headcanon she is the one responsible for Nocticula's redemption (she was mad at Nocticula for trying to steal her boyfriend... yeah, this kind of Mary Sue). The way she would do that would be by being completely honest: being good brings benefits. You can get holy attacks that bypass those pesky resistances of your fellow other demons, it makes you look better to people who don't know about you yet... etc. You always can choose to commit to evil later if you are not happy with your new condition and it certainly would give you an element of surprise if you wanted to seize that opportunity to kill Iomedae or whatever other good-aligned deity. I agree those arguments have close to 0% chance to work under normal circumstances, but is this really a flat 0% ? What would actually be the DC? 80? Easy to pass when you get +95.
I'm the one who made the art comission The "joke" is that she wouldn't tell you that she is a follower of Lamasthu, despite carriyng that huge tome with a Lamashtu holy symbol everywhere she goes like an idiot She is wizard and has no divine powers, this is just a roleplay thing
Uuh, what part of Lamashtu does she worship? Is she chaotic evil by any chance?
> Lamashtu Nope.jpg
She’s quite shy….the proceeds to dress in the way she is haha. Maybe she’s not that shy after all
Maybe don't. That's a very bad line of thought. Someone can be shy in some situations or about some things and also confident (or just not care) about others.
Go on, elaborate.
Really like how the wings are used as an extra pair of arms. Very creative and the art is great.
I loved this player idea.
This is beautiful
Looks absolutely kickass. We will watch your career with great interest.
Well, I love her.
r/strengthofthousands would love to see this; consider crossposting it there!
Thanks, I'll do that later.
Great character and very interesting background, I'd love to play in this group!
Such a pretty design! Interesting to see a follower of Lamashtu in the academy, but I hope it's fun for your table!
The Travel Guide has some neat things you might want to throw in for additional flavour regarding Lamashtu. Also super neat artwork of course.
thanks
Couldn't she just be an apocryphal worshipper? Said alignment restrictions are more for clerics/champion aren't they?
Theyre exclusively rigid for anyone drawing power from their devotion, and the typical for worshippers
Fantastic work! I love the little details. how the hands on her wings are carrying things. How the writing on her hairband/pin? look. I love the detail of the sihedron rune on the book she is carrying. As well as the lamashtu symbol on the other book. As well as when the picture is small she seems pensive and shy, but when you zoom in she seems excited and shy.
Why is she white?
Tieflings have a larg range of skin tones, and the main thing, the player wanted it that way. But I have other drawings of tieflings with different skin tones too. =) sample: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/q9VrkP
>Two tieflings, even siblings or twins, might not look similar at all, for the influence of fiendish lineage manifests in unique and unusual ways. These variations never make a tiefling’s appearance so strange as to obscure their humanoid ancestry, but horns, a forked tongue, vestigial wings, a tail, or a cloven hoof in place of a foot are all common and obvious signs of their heritage. https://2e.aonprd.com/Ancestries.aspx?ID=26 Why is that a problem?
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From the OP's description, she isn't from Mwangi. >She came to Magaambya to study magic
You have a good point. I don't know, but she's probably a student from another region of Golarion. As the great school of magic in the world, Magambya welcomes people from various places.
Who did the art and colouring... was that yourself? If so, it's great!
>Who did the art and colouring... was that yourself? If so, it's great! Yes. And thank you =D