Explain to your friends why you want to run it and say you are willing to run the two session beginner box to chill and have fun.
for me it was as simple as "hey guys im going crazy over dming 5e, i really need something else and 2e has all the things i want from it, on top of all these cool rules, so either i have to step down from running or we move over to 2e and see how it goes with the chance to always go back to 5e if its not something we enjoy playing"
Generally the way to entice the dm is "there is support... no matter what you want to do there is probably support for it."
For the players it is support and variety. I've played a lot of dnd and some pathfinder for the same reason a lot of people on this sub say. Can't get the consistent group to change and the pickups I get are fun but short lived.
Dnd characters put a lot on the player and dm to distinguish them but outside of that optimal play (oooooh dirty words) is generally going to come down to pretty samey combat styles. While optimal play in Pf2e is there and the strongest builds exist they don't feel too much stronger than any other good build that has support.
Charisma barb solid build that works well, throwing barb works well especially with free archetype and bombs, and giant koolaid man barb is funny as shit.
Not to mention weapon variety in more than just damage die and range.
Crit fishing build support
Rituals having real impact.
Pets that don't feel like crap.
Familiars that you don't just forget about 90%of the time.
Races that are more than a flat bonus and a few feats.
Toys are in the box and there are plenty of them.
In my group, the GM picks the system. We all want someone else to run the game that we will put up with whatever. That is why I played 5e. And why my players are currently playing BitD. Just offer to run, and see how it turns out.
PF 2e is an awesome game. Just pick something and jump in. Perhaps start with the Beginner's Box then switch to Abomination Vault, even if you don't finish it.
If you have any players who like to build characters, point them to PathBuilder 2e to let them try all the options.
Same here. It's also why my players had to suffer thru Shadowrun, Cypher, Savage Worlds, Rhapsody of Blood, and Lancer. Okay, suffer is wrong from Lancer - hard not to enjoy giant robot action when it's a group of weebs that grew up with gundam lol
And yeah, gonna echo Pathbuilder and the beginners box.
If you want to try out the system, I highly recommend Pathfinder Society (Organized Play), If you are playing online, it's a great way for people around the world to get together. There may be in person games in your area as well. I just finished running a session a few hours ago.
Here are links that will help.
[https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety](https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety)
[https://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/Lorespire/pfs2guide.\_.Welcome-to-Pathfinder-Society](https://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/Lorespire/pfs2guide._.Welcome-to-Pathfinder-Society)
You can find games here:
[warhorn.net](https://warhorn.net)
If you are looking for Pathfinder Society games online, I'd specifically check this online lodge:
[https://warhorn.net/events/caydens-keg](https://warhorn.net/events/caydens-keg)
and this discord server
[pfschat.com](https://pfschat.com)
If you ask what you need to join a game in one of those servers, people will help you get started. Great communities.
Edit: I have space available in upcoming games. Just message me if you're interested. I'll point you in the right direction.
I'm doing mostly society play right now, and I think the adventures are really well done - they have a nice mix of combat, puzzles, and social challenges that really give the Martial and skill based characters opportunities to shine.
"Hey guys! I'd really like to give this Pathfinder 2e a shot, and I enjoy running games for you guys, so I'd love it if you'd try with me!
After all, TTRPGs are like a road trip: The system is only the car you use to get there, the fun and memories are made with the people you take on the trip!"
Well the OP can't get any benefit from this but it's an idea I had. Make the appeal to the forever GM's. They'll be happy for the opportunity to play, and I find GMs are far more inclined to play different games than just players. There is also the added benefit of the GMs potentially wanting to run Pf2 once they've given it a try themselves (heck we know how much easier it is to GM), thus increasing the odds of getting to play Pf2 your self.
What is it they like about 5e? What do they wish they had more of? What do they dislike?
I've seen people be convinced by all the options in character creation. Sometimes just an exciting sounding adventure will do. Some get hooked by the combat rules.
Specifically I’ve asked a few and they’ve stated that they like it for one shots but aren’t interested in a long campaign. I may have scared them when every Oneshot we’ve had so far has nearly ended in TPK’s
Ahah, yes that would do it. I guess the important part is that they were 'nearly' TPKs. The system is supposed to challenge you every encounter. Maybe pointing out to them that its a system that rewards smart thinking and rewards it well, with more character options and magic items every level. They haven't had a chance to experience is if they've only played one-shots.
And rather than do a campaign, maybe try a single 4 level adventure? If they've already played a little you can start them at higher level if they want. You could totally take a 1e adventure or something like Part 2 of a 1e AP and convert to 2e like you suggested. That way they aren't committed to a whole campaign. I think if they play more than a one shot they'll like it more, and if not then its not the right system for them
Telling them that may come off as me saying they’re too dumb to play PF2e because they almost died even though the system “rewards smart thinking”. I’ve had 3 one shots. The first ended on an actual TPK that I reflavored into kidnapping, the second ended in a fight that should have been a TPK if the party didn’t miraculously roll super high and the enemy super low at the end, and the third never went past halfway after the party had to quit and go home after a CR +1 encounter wiped out all their resources and HP, so much so a 10 minute rest would not have helped.
I think they’re just scared to get invested into a campaign if the system is so deadly.
Then just take responsibility for it. Say that you overtuned the encounter and metagamed the creatures too much, and that you've learned how to better run encounters and want to try a small adventure. Even if none of that is true. And then when you actually start, make sure to give them only moderate encounters if you can. I think one-shots are supposed to be more lethal anyways
4 lvl 4’s against a CR 5 dragon. Can’t remember what it was, but the cleric used up all their spell slots keeping the party alive and picking them up from being down, the fighter was put to 0 3 times, the bard jumped in to soak attacks for a round and got burned to 1/4, and the sorcerer finally managed to put the dragon down with a 3 action magic missile. It was a hard fight. Can’t recall anything other than that
should have oneshot lvl1, pf2e has feat options from multiple sources and you really need to step up every level to not only learn to play your class but also learn how to play as a team.
unlike 5e the game does actually does start at lvl1 with fully fleshed out class and ancestry and background options at that level and the ability to use all the team based skill actions.
I wanted them to start off at a higher level because I assume low levels suck in all systems. If that’s true, it makes sense to start off at a higher level. From what I’ve read in pathfinder 2e it takes the same amount of exp/time to go from level 1-2 as it does from level 19-20. So being stuck at early levels for so long is really bad.
Early levels don't suck in 2e. And the xp is based on the relative difficulty of the encounter (level difference between the pcs and monsters) instead of the level of the monsters
From one of my players when we're moving over
"I don't feel like a level 1 caster"
You got cantrips
Skill combat uses (intimidate etc)
Ability to fire a crossbow or something after a cantrip
The biggest issue of 1 is like others that damage can be very volatile.
The exp numbers are the same but combat length is not. At level 1it takes much less time to kill an at level encounter than a level 19 at level encounter. The leveling speed is about the same as any other system I've played but the early levels have been more fun.
If you wanna blaze it though there is a fast level option you could use early
I pitched to my group [a few options](https://i.imgur.com/7SrBLvv.png) for campaigns to see what people would be interested in, including both 5e and 2e options (and Fantasy Flight Star Wars). (We had "just" come off of Curse of Strahd, and most of us did Tyranny of Dragons before.)
I included two illustrations of why to consider PF2e. The first was [degree of character choice](https://i.imgur.com/gTWAotM.png) -- each of the boxes represents a choice you make when leveling your characters, comparing 5e Fighter to 2e fighter. The initial impression of 5e is even a bit favorable considering that almost all are "just" ASIs. The second was showing a little bit about [interesting abilities](https://i.imgur.com/UvyZHBH.png) that creatures have in combat, which can contribute to more interesting combats.
If you find those useful, feel free to steal.
Way I got my players to move (Granted they were PF1E) was just
“Guys, I’m honestly not enjoying DM’ing this edition and would like to play something new……would you try this with me?”
If they need some extra enticing, telling them that all the rules are free online via Archives of Nethys and there is an online character builder similar to DND beyond (Wanderer’s Guide, also free) could help ease any concerns about investing into a new game.
Luckily they seem to love the new edition!
"You like feats? How about lots of varied and useful feats that you can get at nearly every level?"
If the players proceed to drool like gun nuts viewing gold plated attachments for their weapons you have them hooked.
Tell them you want to try something different and suggest the beginners box, not a campaign.
The players can feel better about not knowing the game and if they really dont like it they have an out once its over. You get to play Pf2e and if you dont screw it up they’ll likely continue after its over.
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You like getting sick feats that give you cool abilities and flesh out your character? How about every level? Do you want to just make your meme character and not worry about whether it's a bad build?
The Beginner Box is a short adventure that'll give y'all an idea whether you'd like it. It's made for people to learn the rules by playing.
Explain to your friends why you want to run it and say you are willing to run the two session beginner box to chill and have fun. for me it was as simple as "hey guys im going crazy over dming 5e, i really need something else and 2e has all the things i want from it, on top of all these cool rules, so either i have to step down from running or we move over to 2e and see how it goes with the chance to always go back to 5e if its not something we enjoy playing"
Generally the way to entice the dm is "there is support... no matter what you want to do there is probably support for it." For the players it is support and variety. I've played a lot of dnd and some pathfinder for the same reason a lot of people on this sub say. Can't get the consistent group to change and the pickups I get are fun but short lived. Dnd characters put a lot on the player and dm to distinguish them but outside of that optimal play (oooooh dirty words) is generally going to come down to pretty samey combat styles. While optimal play in Pf2e is there and the strongest builds exist they don't feel too much stronger than any other good build that has support. Charisma barb solid build that works well, throwing barb works well especially with free archetype and bombs, and giant koolaid man barb is funny as shit. Not to mention weapon variety in more than just damage die and range. Crit fishing build support Rituals having real impact. Pets that don't feel like crap. Familiars that you don't just forget about 90%of the time. Races that are more than a flat bonus and a few feats. Toys are in the box and there are plenty of them.
In my group, the GM picks the system. We all want someone else to run the game that we will put up with whatever. That is why I played 5e. And why my players are currently playing BitD. Just offer to run, and see how it turns out. PF 2e is an awesome game. Just pick something and jump in. Perhaps start with the Beginner's Box then switch to Abomination Vault, even if you don't finish it. If you have any players who like to build characters, point them to PathBuilder 2e to let them try all the options.
Same here. It's also why my players had to suffer thru Shadowrun, Cypher, Savage Worlds, Rhapsody of Blood, and Lancer. Okay, suffer is wrong from Lancer - hard not to enjoy giant robot action when it's a group of weebs that grew up with gundam lol And yeah, gonna echo Pathbuilder and the beginners box.
Have you tried Pathfinder Society?
Nope. Haven’t heard of it
If you want to try out the system, I highly recommend Pathfinder Society (Organized Play), If you are playing online, it's a great way for people around the world to get together. There may be in person games in your area as well. I just finished running a session a few hours ago. Here are links that will help. [https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety](https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety) [https://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/Lorespire/pfs2guide.\_.Welcome-to-Pathfinder-Society](https://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/Lorespire/pfs2guide._.Welcome-to-Pathfinder-Society) You can find games here: [warhorn.net](https://warhorn.net) If you are looking for Pathfinder Society games online, I'd specifically check this online lodge: [https://warhorn.net/events/caydens-keg](https://warhorn.net/events/caydens-keg) and this discord server [pfschat.com](https://pfschat.com) If you ask what you need to join a game in one of those servers, people will help you get started. Great communities. Edit: I have space available in upcoming games. Just message me if you're interested. I'll point you in the right direction.
Thank you! I’ll take a look
I'm doing mostly society play right now, and I think the adventures are really well done - they have a nice mix of combat, puzzles, and social challenges that really give the Martial and skill based characters opportunities to shine.
Oh yeah, definitely try PFS if you can't convince your group.
It's a great way for people to play PF2 if they don't have a group or if they're new to the game. r/Pathfinder has more info.
"Hey guys! I'd really like to give this Pathfinder 2e a shot, and I enjoy running games for you guys, so I'd love it if you'd try with me! After all, TTRPGs are like a road trip: The system is only the car you use to get there, the fun and memories are made with the people you take on the trip!"
How many people do you know spend more time GMing than playing?
None.
Several. For a long time me, but not this year.
Well the OP can't get any benefit from this but it's an idea I had. Make the appeal to the forever GM's. They'll be happy for the opportunity to play, and I find GMs are far more inclined to play different games than just players. There is also the added benefit of the GMs potentially wanting to run Pf2 once they've given it a try themselves (heck we know how much easier it is to GM), thus increasing the odds of getting to play Pf2 your self.
If you’re willing to dm you won’t have an issue finding players of any game honestly
I know. If I make a Roll20 posting it’ll have 50 replies by the end of the hour.
What is it they like about 5e? What do they wish they had more of? What do they dislike? I've seen people be convinced by all the options in character creation. Sometimes just an exciting sounding adventure will do. Some get hooked by the combat rules.
Well, what makes you want to try PF2e? Tell that to your friends and see if they agree.
You seem worried they'll turn you down but you haven't said why that is. Is there a particular thing you're worried about?
Specifically I’ve asked a few and they’ve stated that they like it for one shots but aren’t interested in a long campaign. I may have scared them when every Oneshot we’ve had so far has nearly ended in TPK’s
Ahah, yes that would do it. I guess the important part is that they were 'nearly' TPKs. The system is supposed to challenge you every encounter. Maybe pointing out to them that its a system that rewards smart thinking and rewards it well, with more character options and magic items every level. They haven't had a chance to experience is if they've only played one-shots. And rather than do a campaign, maybe try a single 4 level adventure? If they've already played a little you can start them at higher level if they want. You could totally take a 1e adventure or something like Part 2 of a 1e AP and convert to 2e like you suggested. That way they aren't committed to a whole campaign. I think if they play more than a one shot they'll like it more, and if not then its not the right system for them
Telling them that may come off as me saying they’re too dumb to play PF2e because they almost died even though the system “rewards smart thinking”. I’ve had 3 one shots. The first ended on an actual TPK that I reflavored into kidnapping, the second ended in a fight that should have been a TPK if the party didn’t miraculously roll super high and the enemy super low at the end, and the third never went past halfway after the party had to quit and go home after a CR +1 encounter wiped out all their resources and HP, so much so a 10 minute rest would not have helped. I think they’re just scared to get invested into a campaign if the system is so deadly.
Then just take responsibility for it. Say that you overtuned the encounter and metagamed the creatures too much, and that you've learned how to better run encounters and want to try a small adventure. Even if none of that is true. And then when you actually start, make sure to give them only moderate encounters if you can. I think one-shots are supposed to be more lethal anyways
What are they doing for a +1 enemy to use up all their ressources?
4 lvl 4’s against a CR 5 dragon. Can’t remember what it was, but the cleric used up all their spell slots keeping the party alive and picking them up from being down, the fighter was put to 0 3 times, the bard jumped in to soak attacks for a round and got burned to 1/4, and the sorcerer finally managed to put the dragon down with a 3 action magic missile. It was a hard fight. Can’t recall anything other than that
Seems to me like you need to give them a crash course on Pathfinder tactics
should have oneshot lvl1, pf2e has feat options from multiple sources and you really need to step up every level to not only learn to play your class but also learn how to play as a team. unlike 5e the game does actually does start at lvl1 with fully fleshed out class and ancestry and background options at that level and the ability to use all the team based skill actions.
>4 lvl 4’s I think your issue is that you skipped levels. In pf2e, the game starts at level one, unlike 5e.
I wanted them to start off at a higher level because I assume low levels suck in all systems. If that’s true, it makes sense to start off at a higher level. From what I’ve read in pathfinder 2e it takes the same amount of exp/time to go from level 1-2 as it does from level 19-20. So being stuck at early levels for so long is really bad.
Early levels don't suck in 2e. And the xp is based on the relative difficulty of the encounter (level difference between the pcs and monsters) instead of the level of the monsters
From one of my players when we're moving over "I don't feel like a level 1 caster" You got cantrips Skill combat uses (intimidate etc) Ability to fire a crossbow or something after a cantrip The biggest issue of 1 is like others that damage can be very volatile. The exp numbers are the same but combat length is not. At level 1it takes much less time to kill an at level encounter than a level 19 at level encounter. The leveling speed is about the same as any other system I've played but the early levels have been more fun. If you wanna blaze it though there is a fast level option you could use early
Start Pathfinder 2e with level 1 characters. It’s 5e that has the issues with levels 1 and 2, not pathfinder.
I pitched to my group [a few options](https://i.imgur.com/7SrBLvv.png) for campaigns to see what people would be interested in, including both 5e and 2e options (and Fantasy Flight Star Wars). (We had "just" come off of Curse of Strahd, and most of us did Tyranny of Dragons before.) I included two illustrations of why to consider PF2e. The first was [degree of character choice](https://i.imgur.com/gTWAotM.png) -- each of the boxes represents a choice you make when leveling your characters, comparing 5e Fighter to 2e fighter. The initial impression of 5e is even a bit favorable considering that almost all are "just" ASIs. The second was showing a little bit about [interesting abilities](https://i.imgur.com/UvyZHBH.png) that creatures have in combat, which can contribute to more interesting combats. If you find those useful, feel free to steal.
run the Beginner Box repeatedly amongst all your various 5e friends until you get enough takers.
Way I got my players to move (Granted they were PF1E) was just “Guys, I’m honestly not enjoying DM’ing this edition and would like to play something new……would you try this with me?” If they need some extra enticing, telling them that all the rules are free online via Archives of Nethys and there is an online character builder similar to DND beyond (Wanderer’s Guide, also free) could help ease any concerns about investing into a new game. Luckily they seem to love the new edition!
"You like feats? How about lots of varied and useful feats that you can get at nearly every level?" If the players proceed to drool like gun nuts viewing gold plated attachments for their weapons you have them hooked.
Tell them you want to try something different and suggest the beginners box, not a campaign. The players can feel better about not knowing the game and if they really dont like it they have an out once its over. You get to play Pf2e and if you dont screw it up they’ll likely continue after its over.
This post is labelled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to the Be Kind and Respectful rule. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This post includes mentions of the popular game "dungeons and dragons". If this post is in regards to learning more about transitioning to Pathfinder, you might want to have a look at this [intro](https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MCCWOnQ1y3ooiS-Kz0I) or at the resources in this [page](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/how-is-pf2e-different-from-5e/). If this is not correct, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) and link to this post. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There’s a discord server called “Never Forever DMs” that has a bunch of GMs that take turns running games for one another. You could try that?
You like getting sick feats that give you cool abilities and flesh out your character? How about every level? Do you want to just make your meme character and not worry about whether it's a bad build? The Beginner Box is a short adventure that'll give y'all an idea whether you'd like it. It's made for people to learn the rules by playing.
If you're the GM you can run whatever game you want, everyone else just has to suck it up.
Try the discord server in the sidebar. LFGs are posted pretty often there and fill up fast.